Way-too-early World Cup roster projections

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic Hockey Show – "Way-Too-Early World Cup Roster Projections" (July 24, 2026)

Episode Theme

This episode dives into speculative, forward-looking debates about the 2028 World Cup of Hockey, specifically projecting rosters for Team Canada and Team USA. Hosts Max Bultman, Corey Pronman, and Scott Wheeler argue through the most contentious positions, considering performance trends, player aging, management philosophies, and how recency bias may shape future selections. The discussion is energetic and thorough, filled with specific player comparisons, running debates about team-building principles, and plenty of memorable back-and-forth.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage: The Purpose and Approach

• The episode begins with an acknowledgment that these projections are meant for fun, with the hosts noting the exercise as a ‘snapshot’ and a way to spark debates about up-and-comers vs. incumbents. (01:21–02:50)
• Main focus for this episode is Team Canada and USA; Sweden, Finland, and Czechia not covered due to time.

2. Team Canada Forward Corps Debate

Incumbents vs. Risers (03:00–04:50)

• No-debate locks for Canada: Connor McDavid, Macklin Celebrini, Nathan MacKinnon, Mitch Marner, Sidney Crosby, Braden Point, Brandon Hagel, and Nick Suzuki.
• Fringe Olympic holdovers: Tom Wilson, Sam Bennett, Anthony Cirelli.
• Young risers: Connor Bedard, Wyatt Johnston, Seth Jarvis, Dylan Guenther, Logan Stankoven.

The 4C Debate: Cirelli vs. Johnston/Bennett/Wilson (04:54–09:07)

• Max Bultman: "If this was an all-star team, Anthony Cirelli doesn't have the star power. But top three for the Selke each of the last two years. Where are you going to find a better checking center for the fourth line?" (06:09)
• Scott Wheeler: Counters for upside (“What if a year and a half from now Wyatt Johnston is one of the four or five best defensive centers in hockey and is giving you 80 points instead of 50?”) (06:41)
• The defense/offense balance remains central. Ultimately, Cirelli is chosen as the projection for the 4C, with Max and Corey outvoting Scott. (09:12–09:19)

The "Physicality" Factor and Wilson/Bennett's Futures (11:26–16:07)

• Discussion of whether fighting/physicality still matters for national team construction: hosts agree it’s fading, referencing the Olympics and a possibly different World Cup style. (11:26–13:21)
• Consensus: Connor Bedard must be on the team; Sam Bennett unlikely to remain unless he rediscovers playoff form.
• Wilson’s reputation and “mythical” status may keep him in the mix despite expected decline.
• "If Connor Bedard is not on this roster in a year and a half, something has gone wrong – especially if Sam Bennett is on it over him in a year and a half something has gone wrong." – Max Bultman (15:18)

Constructing the Bottom-Six & Last Spots (16:15–18:24)

• Key debate: Bedard and Stankoven favored for energy/skill; Wilson brings a unique physical profile; Johnston’s versatility makes him a tough omission.
• Corey Pronman: “You saw the way Stankhoven competed in the playoffs…I feel like in that 10–11 minute a night energy role, I think he would thrive.” (16:58)
• Bedard projected with Crosby and Marner on line two; Stankoven, Cirelli, Wilson fill out the fourth.
• Johnston named as a potential 13th forward—acknowledged as a “tough cut.” (17:44)

Final Projected Canada Forwards (18:06–18:24)

• McDavid, Celebrini, McKinnon, Marner, Crosby, Bedard, Hagel, Suzuki, Point, Stankoven, Cirelli, Wilson

3. Team Canada – Defence & Goaltending Debates

Left Side Stability, Right Side Questions (18:54–23:58)

• No-brainers: Cale Makar, Matthew Savoie, Josh Morrissey, Evan Bouchard, Thomas Harley.
• Top debate: Devontaevs (aging) vs. Owen Power (rising). Scott pushes for Power: “I think Owen Power is better than people realize. I think he’s going to take a step next year.” (18:54–19:49)
• Arguments about team management’s likely conservatism (recent ice time at Olympics, proven partners, etc.)

Penalty Killing & Defensive Depth (21:02–23:58)

• Sandheim floated as an alternative for more defensive/PK minutes; hosts struggle to cut big minutes or offensive talent like Bouchard or Morrissey.
• Eventually, the group settles on Harley over Sandheim or Pareko for the last spot, after a “big circle” around the logic. (24:48–25:08)
• Notable quote: "We're bullying this poor guy right now." – Max to Scott (24:50)

Goalie Choices (25:13–27:10)

• Core argument: Is Bennington/Kemper still viable or do Greaves/Thompson break through?
• “Thompson over Bennington is the switch I would make. I'm fine with Kemper. Like Greaves, I think has a chance to get there, but I do have a hard time projecting.” – Max Bultman (27:10)
• Scott gets his wish: Greaves and Thompson as projected duo.

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4. Team USA Forward Corps Debate

Lots of Carry-Over... But Not All (28:35–30:49)

• Championship core is expected to stick: Jack Hughes, Eichel, Boldy, Matthews, both Tkachuks, Gensel, Larkin.
• Scott: "Brady [Tkachuk] better play better...I think he's more likely to be the captain than to be cut." (29:59–30:07)
• Fringe/difficult returnees: Brock Nelson, J.T. Miller.

Replacements: Youth Movement and Miller Out (30:49–33:10)

• Debate of Brock Nelson’s role: Shane Pinto—already elite defensively and strong against top opposition—gets the nod for 4C projection.
• Logan Cooley discussed as a near-lock, maybe even at 4C; flexibility at center and wing noted.

Last Spots: Knies, Leonard, Beniers, Others (33:12–34:05)

• Group favors Matthew Knies for size, scoring, and role buy-in, but leaves door open for Ryan Leonard's development. Miller presumed out. Beniers could yet break in if development spikes.

Third Line "Open" Winger – Gauthier vs. Caulfield vs. Robertson (34:13–36:49)

• Numerous high-scoring wingers in the mix (Caufield, Robertson, Connor, Keller, DeBrincat).
• Consensus lands on Caulfield for skating, scoring touch, power-play need, and Hughes chemistry.
• “Their power play is going to have the Kachuks, who are more net front bumper guys...I do think Caulfield on the flank...is an asset on top of what I think he can contribute offensively at 5 on 5.” – Scott Wheeler (36:08)

5. Team USA – Defense and The Lane Hudson Debate

Blue Line Near-Consensus... with a Flashpoint (36:51–47:10)

• Slam dunks: Quinn Hughes, Zach Werenski, Jake Sanderson, Brock Faber, Charlie McAvoy.
• Last spot: Miller vs. Slavin vs. Lane Hudson.
• Scott makes insistent, sometimes heated, case for Lane Hudson over NHL stalwarts: "Lane Hudson is already…one of the best players in the world." (38:21)
• Max & Corey note role deployment and management conservatism as strong forces likely to keep Jacob Slavin in. (“If Lane Hudson was Canadian, he’d be in their top four. No doubt.” — Max Bultman, 43:47)
• Ultimately, after a lengthy back-and-forth and passionate arguments, the group concedes to having Hudson as the sixth, with Slavin likely fading due to age but still a “tough cut.”
• Hudson, Faber named as the third pair; Sanderson in top four.

Final Projected USA Defense (52:36–52:59)

• Quinn Hughes, Charlie McAvoy, Zach Werenski, Jake Sanderson, Lane Hudson, Brock Faber

Notable Moments:

• “If Lane Hudson had 100 points next year, there’s no way you’re not taking him.” – Scott Wheeler (44:28)
• "I just want to see it. Now I'm, I'm going to vote for Hudson because I just want to see it." – Max Bultman (47:10)
• “I think there’s never been an F bomb dropped on this show. Max might have had a first there.” – Scott Wheeler (52:02)

6. Team USA Goaltending

• No-brainer: Connor Hellebuyck, even deep into his 30s. (54:02–54:09)
• Swayman favored over Oettinger as the #2; Max and Scott prevail, Corey accepts. (54:21–54:24)

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Timestamped Highlights & Quotes

• [06:09] Max Bultman: “Where are you going to find a better checking center…if not one of the three best defensive centers in hockey?”
• [09:15] Max Bultman: “I’m voting Cirelli.”
• [15:18] Max Bultman: “If Connor Bedard is not on this roster…something has gone wrong.”
• [16:58] Corey Pronman on Stankoven: “I feel like in that 10–11 minute a night energy role, I think he would thrive.”
• [19:49] Scott Wheeler: “Owen Power is better than people realize. I think he’s going to take a step next year.”
• [25:01] Scott Wheeler: “I was just about to ask the same question about Harley.…maybe it’s Harley for…and we haven’t even…none of us have raised Chychrun either.”
• [36:08] Scott Wheeler on Caulfield: “I do think Caulfield on the flank…is an asset on top of what I think he can contribute offensively at 5 on 5.”
• [38:21] Scott Wheeler: “Lane Hudson is…already…one of the best players in the world.”
• [43:47] Max Bultman: “If Lane Hudson was Canadian, he’d be in their top four. No doubt.”
• [47:10] Max Bultman: “I just want to see it. Now I’m…going to vote for Hudson because I just want to see it.”
• [52:02] Scott Wheeler: “I don’t think there’s ever been an F bomb dropped on this show. Max might have had a first there.”

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Episode Takeaways

• Roster turnover will be minimal for both teams, but the bottom-six forwards and back-third of the defense corps are ripe for change.
• Physicality as a key metric is fading; skill and hockey IQ are paramount in selection debates.
• The Lane Hudson debate epitomizes the “best player or best role fit?” question, and the US blue line is now deep enough to spark heated argument even about Norris-level talents.
• Forwards like Bedard and Caulfield are now locks by virtue of talent, not projection.
• Goalies are sticking primarily with proven experience.

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Quick-Reference: Projected Lineups

Team Canada (Forwards)

• McDavid, Celebrini, McKinnon, Marner, Crosby, Bedard, Hagel, Suzuki, Point, Stankoven, Cirelli, Wilson

Team Canada (Defense)

• Makar, Savoie, Morrissey, Bouchard, Harley, Taves

Team Canada (Goalies)

• Thompson, Greaves

Team USA (Forwards)

• J. Hughes, Eichel, Boldy, A. Matthews, Brady & Matthew Tkachuk, Gensel, Larkin, Caulfield, Knies, Cooley, Pinto

Team USA (Defense)

• Q. Hughes, McAvoy, Werenski, Sanderson, Hudson, Faber

Team USA (Goalies)

• Hellebuyck, Swayman

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Overall Tone & Style

The conversation is deeply analytical, passionate, sometimes playful (especially around repeated points-of-contention), with a natural back-and-forth style. Disagreements are tackled head-on—especially when Scott Wheeler gets animated about future stars or Max Bultman holds the line for established “glue guys.” The tone remains accessible for serious hockey fans, with enough context to make the projections engaging for those less familiar with the rosters’ granular details.

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For anyone interested in the long-term futures of the North American hockey powers—or just the volatile fun of roster projection debates—this episode is a must-listen, and this summary serves as your definitive guide to the takes, battles, and laughs along the way.

Transcript

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[Max Bultman]

This is the athletic hockey show prospect series. Hey everybody. Max Boltman here alongside the Athletics Corey Proman and Scott Wheeler for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Fellas, we are in the dog days of the off season here. We do have the World Junior Summer Showcase coming up. We do have the Hinka coming up. That is all very much on the horizon, but this is the time of year where I think we like to have a little bit of fun. We like to look too far ahead into the future and that's what we're going to do today with the 2028 World cup preview here. Now, I know we don't know there's a lot that's going to change between now and then, but here, here, I think, is the value of this, right? We talked about the Olympics long enough, I think, for people to have a good feel for what we think of the kind of broad player pools. But in the wake of the Olympics, I think there are still a couple spots that always become really interesting and these become good snapshots of where we stand at this moment in time. They become good windows into what are the big debates going to be. And I think that's what we're looking for today, specifically on Team Canada and on the US I'm sorry to our Swedish, Finnish, Czech listeners who would want to hear similar things on those teams. We're going to stick to USA and Canada today and we're going to start with Team Canada. Team Canada probably was the best team at the 2026 Olympics, of course did not get the job done in the gold medal game against Team usa.

[Scott Wheeler]

But.

[Max Bultman]

But it poses a really interesting question, Corey, of like, how do you view this as Team Canada's management? Do you look at this as a situation where, hey, this is what we got, we're going to kind of repeat it, or do you look at this and say, well, we didn't get the job done, we got to make some changes.

[Corey Proman]

Probably a little bit of both. I still think you thought like the team looked very good and especially in the gold medal game, they were, they dominated, you know, possession scoring chances. But also I think too they compared to the US A lot of their core guys are going to get up there in age. You know, you think of guys like Mark Stone or Crosby, depends whether he's still playing in two years from now. And I think there's going to have to be a lot of interesting conversations with Team Canada, you know, about some of the guys that they brought and whether there's. I don't think there'll be wholesale changes, but I think you're going to see, especially on the forward front, I think you'll see a couple of players swapped out.

[Max Bultman]

All right, so let's kind of go through that. I mean, we did a little bit of pre show work here to figure out where we don't need to spend a lot of time. And no surprise to anybody, we're not going to debate Connor McDavid, Macklin Celebrini or Nathan McKinnon today. We're also not going to debate Mitch Marner, Sidney Crosby, Braden Point and Brendan Hagel today, Brandon Hagel today, and Nick Suzuki for that matter. I don't think any of us raised any objections to those guys being in the mix. That being said, there are some spots worth us discussing. Tom Wilson, Sam Bennett, Anthony Sorelli. These are guys from the Olympic team that I think as we did our pre show work, we had some back and forth about. On the flip side, there are some rising young players. No surprise. Connor Bedard, one of those. Wyatt Johnston, one of those, Seth Jarvis. And he was actually on the team already, so I should have mentioned him in the previous group. But also Logan Stankevin, his Carolina Hurricanes teammate. So for that group of seven players.

[Corey Proman]

And Dylan Genther.

[Max Bultman]

And Dylan Genther, that's right. Another. Another up and coming score, 40 goals last year for the Utah math for those eight players, what do we have, three spots there? My math is correct.

[Scott Wheeler]

Correct.

[Corey Proman]

Three, three spots for six players.

[Max Bultman]

All right, so let's start at the center position and with Anthony Sorelli because this is one that to me, I, I would leave as is. And I know Scott, you disagree.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yes. Sorelli, Wilson and Bennett. I'm not convinced that any of the three of those players are going to be on the team. Wilson obviously has, is coming off of two back to back career years. But I think two years from now, really it's a year and a half from now. But a year and a half from now. I'm just not convinced that Tom Wilson's going to be as important a player in frankly even in within the Washington organization with the additions of Jordan Cairo and the protest bro, I, I just have some doubts about Wilson's effectiveness to play that same role again two years from now. Bennett, I, I think that ship will have sailed a year and a half from now. C is an interesting one. Sorelli feels like the kind of prototypical fourth line center. He's played the checking role. He's been a Selkie candidate. I, I could be talked into Cirelli. I'm not sure I could be talked into Wilson or Bennett two years from now.

[Max Bultman]

All right, so here's my case on Sorelli is each of the last two years and if this was an all star team, Anthony Sorelli doesn't have the star power obviously to be honest. But top three for the Selkie each of the last two years. Where are you going to find a better checking center specifically for the fourth line? And I know like the way we first mapped it out, I think we had him on the third line and Nick Suzuki on the fourth. Nick Suzuki is 100 point player and the Selkie winner. I'm putting Nick suzuki on the third line there. So I'm looking for a 4C here. And what do I want from a 4C if not one of the three best defensive centers in hockey?

[Scott Wheeler]

What if a year and a half from now Wyatt Johnston is one of the four or five best defensive centers in hockey and is giving you 80 points instead of 50 points? Like what if the case that I

[Max Bultman]

would make if that happens then that would change a lot. But where things stand today, like Wyatt Johnson has never received one Selkie vote. His expected goals against last year on a really good Dallas team was 2.9 with him on the ice. Like he is definitely in a different stratosphere of producer than Sorelli, but like I just haven't like why Johnson is going to be an excellent two way Center. I don't doubt that he's going to get Selkie votes throughout his career, but I it as we sit here today to say that a year and a half from now, he's just going to be already where Anthony Sorelli is. Defense. It just seems like more of a leap to me than I'm willing to concede, I guess.

[Scott Wheeler]

I think you have to consider the ability to contribute offensively though. Like I would worry that in that role Sorelli's from 10 minute a night,

[Corey Proman]

like 12 minutes a night center like that, you're. You're hoping for offense.

[Scott Wheeler]

I think you're. Yes. What Canada needed more offense in, in big moments in, in this Olympics. Like it. You, you. You have to consider offense everywhere in the lineup in best on best. I think you do.

[Max Bultman]

And it's always going to be the push and pull, Corey, because we, when you see a 2:1 game, you can look at it either way. You can look at it how Scott is saying and you could say, look, you needed one more goal, you needed more offense. And you can also look at it the other way and say there's not much offense to be had by any of these all star players. If Nathan McKinnon and Macklin Celebrini and Connor McDavid aren't scoring, does that tell you that the more important risk profile or more important kind of profile is minimizing the chance you're going to give something up to your opponent?

[Corey Proman]

Yeah, I mean, I just. If you replay that game and Sorelli, who wasn't in the game, was there, I'm not sure like him, you know, especially if they're down a goal, he's getting what, maybe one or two shifts there in the third period, like late in the third period, especially like, it's. I, I just don't know. I. Again, we're. It's just this, this is the nature of the exercise where we're going to be arguing about third pair defenseman and fourth line forwards. I just don't know if that's going to move the needle. But I also don't think you want McDavid or Crosby killing penalties for this team either. So that's why I would just. My lean is Sorelli, but. And again, it's for a fourth line center role. I think he's just more of a natural fit.

[Max Bultman]

All right, so where do we want to, where do we want to put that? Are we making a projection today or are we just having the debate?

[Corey Proman]

I think we're making a projection. So we're going to vote here.

[Max Bultman]

I'm voting Sorelli.

[Corey Proman]

And so am I. Sorry, Scott.

[Scott Wheeler]

It's okay. I'll make the case again for Johnston over Bennett and Wilson.

[Max Bultman]

There's still a path centers on the wings.

[Scott Wheeler]

There's still a path onto this roster

[Max Bultman]

for what I. I agree with that. All right, let's go to another. And we said, we said six for three or six guys for three spots. I think it is eight for four. As I just, as I map this all out, we're. We got spots here taken up by McDavid, celebrating McKinnon, Marner, Crosby, Suzuki, Point Hagel. That's eight guys. We need to get to 12. So we got four spots to fill. And the names we're considering again are Wyatt Johnston, Connor Bedard, Seth Jarvis, Tom Wilson, Anthony Sorelli, Sam Bennett, Dylan Genther. Dylan Genther. So seven for four.

[Scott Wheeler]

Seven.

[Corey Proman]

And then, and then we just did Johnson and Sorelli kind of thing. So that was one of the first.

[Max Bultman]

Sorelli was one of the spots.

[Corey Proman]

So Sorelli's on the team now.

[Max Bultman]

All right, so Sorelli's on our team.

[Corey Proman]

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[Max Bultman]

Let's go next to to the big guys and the. The physicality of the four nations dominated a lot of the conversation leading up to the Olympics, right? What we saw from the Tachuk brothers, what we saw from, you know, Team Canada in the U.S. in those rivalry games. And I having seen the Olympics now, like, I think it's fair to say, Scott, that the pure physicality, the brutishness, the fighting, obviously was not a huge factor in the Olympics.

[Scott Wheeler]

No, it wasn't. And I will get to the USA roster after. But I'm not even convinced if Brady Tkachuk doesn't turn his play around after the way he played down the stretch with Ottawa, that Brady Tkachuk's necessarily a lock a couple of years from now to. To be on Team usa. So is it a factor? Absolutely. Are the Games that at the World cup maybe going to play a little bit differently than the Olympics as well? That's entirely possible. We saw that at the four nations. Maybe you do build your roster a little bit differently. Although I do think everything will be with the Olympics in the back of. Even at the World Cup. But I. Wilson, again, another guy who's in his is going to be in his mid-30s at that point. I just not sure whether the pace will be there. I'm just not sure whether he's got enough juice to make the contributions that he made this time around. He was a fine player for this for them in the Olympics. Will he be a fine player for them two years from now? Relative to what I think a Wyatt Johnston can contribute or what I think Connor Bedard can contribute or I, I just don't see it. Like you've in Suzuki and Hagel and Sorelli, like you've got in point stank of him even in. Even in Crosby. Like you've got guys who can play at the bottom of your lineup. I like Johnston and Bedard to, to play in a, in a. In a real role and be a part of this team, you know, and frankly, I just think they're going to be better, like not just better players, maybe significantly better players than Bennett and Wilson a year and a half from now.

[Corey Proman]

The Bennett one I kind of buy like it's going to be already what, like three, four years removed from his consmyth run. Like it's like he'll need to have some really good years to. To be in the mix there. The Wilson one is tough because whatever you think of the player I didn't know, I think he's a really good player and where he's going to be in two years. It's fair to say that in the league there's something mythical about him. Right. Like, it's like the same way it was with Lucic throughout his career. When you have this big guy who could, who can play like there and who is extremely physical, the league gravitates towards that unique profile. And you know, you saw at the Olympics, they gave him every opportunity to succeed. You know, often playing him in the top six even though his ice time, you know, fluctuated in the important games. I have a hard time thinking in a year and a half from now that the conversation about Wilson has changed so dramatically that. And I don't know if I would even have brought him to the Olympics quite frankly. Like I'm not like, I'm kind of like agreeing with Scott. Like I don't know if I like love this player compared to some of these other options, but I think the league does love him and I have a hard time not seeing him in the top 12 in whatever 18 months from now.

[Scott Wheeler]

What happens if Ryan Leonard, the two protest brothers and Jordan Cairo all become really important parts in Washington and Wilson has a 48 or 49 point season next year instead of a 62 point season? Like does that change the conversation for you?

[Corey Proman]

No. I still think people will value the player type just so highly.

[Max Bultman]

So let's, let's.

[Scott Wheeler]

I still think you. There is some. There's going to be something to the hot hand and the guys who are playing their best come selection process. Like it's.

[Max Bultman]

So let's, let's move on Bennett here first because it sounds like Wilson's going to be the bigger, bigger point of contention here. I think if Connor Bedard is not on this roster in a year and a half, something has gone wrong and if, especially if Sam Bennett is on it over him in a year and a half something has gone wrong. Is that fair?

[Scott Wheeler]

I think that's fair here.

[Corey Proman]

Now here's a question. Can you bring. Will not. Can you. But will they bring Suzuki point, Stankovin, Bedard and Jarvis? Like that's a lot of. Yeah, it's a lot of small.

[Max Bultman]

Maybe not. But I think Bedard would be above Jarvis. I think Bedard's probably above Stankeven.

[Scott Wheeler]

Great.

[Corey Proman]

But that, that's, that's my point is I think these, these were the friction points are going to be.

[Max Bultman]

Yep. So you're saying keep, keep Bennett and shift the conversation to what gets one of those other guys.

[Corey Proman]

Well now, now we're starting to build the roster out. So I think if we're doing that then we're probably putting Wilson on the fourth line.

[Max Bultman]

Yep.

[Corey Proman]

Right.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yep.

[Max Bultman]

Yep.

[Corey Proman]

And then you're putting one of those smaller scores on the second line. So are we putting Bedard on the line with Crosby and Marner?

[Max Bultman]

I don't have a problem with that.

[Scott Wheeler]

I have absolutely no problem with that.

[Corey Proman]

So that's what. So that'd be the second Line, third line of Hagel, Suzuki point.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yep.

[Max Bultman]

I think that sounds like a great third line.

[Corey Proman]

And then fourth line of Sorelli and then I'd argue Wilson.

[Max Bultman]

Yep.

[Corey Proman]

And then who's the last one?

[Scott Wheeler]

I, I'd put Wyatt there over Bennett

[Max Bultman]

and Stankevin would be in that conversation and so would Jarvis too.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah.

[Max Bultman]

So Johnson.

[Scott Wheeler]

I think Wyatt's better than all of those players and I like the idea of having another guy who's a natural center who can take draws.

[Corey Proman]

My lean is Stankhoven just based on, just honestly, just based on his playoffs and just how much of a dog he is. I feel like in that 10 to 11 minute a night energy role, I think he would thrive so much.

[Max Bultman]

I think for the skating especially like that'd be the big difference. Now he's smaller than Johnson and that is.

[Scott Wheeler]

And Johnston works.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah, they both are.

[Corey Proman]

Oh yeah, for sure. But I just think you saw the way Stankhoven competed in the playoffs and I think he's on a different level when it comes to his compete.

[Max Bultman]

I'll go with Stank of in there and I like that, that fourth line of Stankeven, Sorelli, Wilson. That, that sounds like a national team fourth line to me. But you know, it does suck to leave Wyatt Johnston off. I mean, do we have a 13th forward there? I'd be happy to put him in that role. I think he's an awesome player.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah. And we didn't even really mention Genther, but that's the tough part about making these national teams. Right. It's like, okay, if you're bringing Genther, you're going to have to leave Braden Point at home. You're going to have to leave Connor Bedard at home and I don't think any of us will do.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, all those guys are really right. All those guys are right shots.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah, it's, it's a factor.

[Corey Proman]

All right, so let's, Injuries could play into it, obviously.

[Max Bultman]

All right, so let, let's go with that then. So our, our Team Canada forward group is McDavid, Celebrini, McKinnon, Marner, Crosby, Bard, Hagel, Suzuki Point, and then Stankovin C. Wilson. That's the Team Canada forward group. Good. With that understanding the, the objection. Scott.

[Corey Proman]

Scott doesn't like Wilson, but yes, I,

[Scott Wheeler]

I, I'd have Wyatt probably over Wilson and Stankhoven, but I'm fine with it.

[Max Bultman]

All right, let's move on to the Canada defenseman here then. A little quicker conversation here. Matthew Schaefer, Kale McCarr, Josh Morrissey, Evan Bouchard, Thomas, Harley, all of those went without objection in our kind of pre show map out. The only big debate is devontaves on that of of the six. And Scott, your nomination for that was Owen Power.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah. I just think Taves is another guy like Wilson. He's going to be what, 35 two years from now. I think Tavis's role has largely been tied to Kale Makar and I think the emergence of Matthew Schaefer will likely mean that Matthew Schaefer and Kale Makar are a D pairing. And I just think Owen Power is better than people realize. I think he's going to take a step next year. I think he we saw it really in the back half of this season with his play that he was it's coming for him. I know he hasn't always been as competitive or as hard as you want a guy that size to be, but Owen Power is a phenomenal NHL defenseman and I think they are going to want him to be a part of the Hockey Canada mix. And I do wonder if if Taves is 35 for the world cup and you're looking ahead to the Olympics and then suddenly he's 37. I wonder about bringing an Owen Power for a third pairing role over a guy like tapes for that reason.

[Max Bultman]

It's a good point and it's something that I think about with both of these rosters. I wonder will the management groups for both USA and Canada view the World cup as an end in it and end in itself like the thing worth going everything at or is it viewed as like a kind of a lab and seeing testing some things for the 2030 Olympics and I, I genuinely don't know Corey, which way to view that.

[Scott Wheeler]

I think if it's a gap, if there's a gap, you're in win now. Right. But are Taves in power close? Like are they?

[Corey Proman]

Well and this is kind of the argument you made about his ice time regardless of Makar. If you look at how they use Taze in the Olympics, I would guess Team Canada doesn't think this is even particularly close because I think he was what their second leading defenseman in ice time at at the at the tournament. So like to go from there to not on the team altogether, that would be a pretty drastic drop and I'm not sure his play in the NHL has warranted it. Now the question is whether in two years things have changed change that much like I would guess. I agree with Scott that I think they're going to have to bump him off the Makar pair for Schaefer at some point here. I just don't know if he goes all the way from one of their most important players to not on the team in, in two seasons.

[Max Bultman]

What did you guys think of Travis Sandheim? Corey, I'll start with you here. What'd you think of Travis Sandheim at the Olympics? And I mean, he's not a name that came up in our pre show prep.

[Corey Proman]

I thought he was, you know, solid fine enough. I don't think like he like moved the needle for me.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Max Bultman]

Because I mean, when I look at this on profile, it. I do think you're still looking for a true penalty kill guy here. And I don't know that power is that either.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah. And I thought about the way putting it together because you have Makar, you have Schaefer, who's an amazing skater, and I think when he's 23, 24, 25, will be an elite, elite defender. But you wonder in two years from now is if he's a shutdown guy against the best USA Sweden players. Yeah, you have Bouchard, who obviously is not that. You have Morrissey, who I don't think. Who I think is. Well, right there. Yeah, but. Yeah, but you're right, but there's no. Like, we didn't mention Sanheim. Like, like, that's why I think Tay still has a spot in this lineup, because he at least provides some of that defense there. Um, it's, it's a tough and like, I think we all didn't raise objections to Bashar being there, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's not in the starting six, quite frankly, just for all the reasons you just stated.

[Scott Wheeler]

I think Bouchard's the only player within that group of six who, who you don't want on a penalty kill. At a best on best event, though, like, Makar can penalty kill, Morrissey can penalty kill. Harley can penalty kill. Power could penalty kill. I think by then you're, you're comfortable with Schaefer penalty killing at that level. Like, I don't think there's a shortage of pkers there. Bouchard is not penalty killing for you,

[Corey Proman]

but I think it's. They can penalty kill. I don't know if they're going to excel in that, nor do I think are they going to excel in like being shut down guys against like, you know, the best, best of best players in the world.

[Max Bultman]

It's also. Those are like the hardest minutes, most taxing minutes you can ask someone to play and there I do think that there is a trade off. If you're going to ask Cale McCarr and Matthew Schaefer to do that, you're gonna get less of them, less from them at 5 on 5 by doing so. And that's where, like, that's what I see. Like, Sandheim is probably the name that I'm finding myself wanting to argue for here. And that would.

[Corey Proman]

Then who do you bring hope. But then who do you leave at home? Like, are you leaving Bouchard at home for Sanheim? Like, that's a big town.

[Max Bultman]

Does feel extreme. That does feel extreme.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah. So I don't know. I think that's one where we kind of see where these guys are too, from now. Like, where is Morrissey two years from now? Where is Bouchard two years from now? Like, do they maintain this level of play? Because if they are, it's hard to leave them at home, but if they drop off a little bit, then maybe you kind of find an excuse to bring one of those, you know, more well rounded players.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah. So. All right, so where are we going to land on this then? Because I think between Taves and Power, I think I lean to Taves, but, like, I don't know that Taves is really the exact kind of player I'm talking about either. Even though he, again, he's another one that like, can do it. But are you, like going into a.

[Corey Proman]

Do you want to leave Harley at home then for one of those guys?

[Scott Wheeler]

I was just about to ask the same question about Harley. Like, maybe. Maybe it's Harley for. And we haven't even. None of us have raised chicken either. But chicken was excellent last. Like I could see chicken or power in the, in the mix over a Harley potentially.

[Max Bultman]

I do think Harley's going to bounce back.

[Scott Wheeler]

I do, I do.

[Max Bultman]

Based on his last year, he would be the one to cut. It wasn't like a wow year for him by any means. I do think he's going to bounce back though, so I don't know. But it's. Yeah, that. That's one. One way to do this.

[Corey Proman]

Yes. Do we want to maybe just keep Tase and put Pareco back on for. For Harley?

[Max Bultman]

Scott's not going to want Pareco. Right?

[Corey Proman]

Scott, you're the tiebreaker.

[Max Bultman]

Max, My lean is to go to Sanheim, but if you guys are interested,

[Corey Proman]

I'll go Sanheim then. So, yeah, let's do. Let's do Tay Sanheim as a six

[Max Bultman]

and leave Harley home. Are you okay with. Scott doesn't like this at all.

[Scott Wheeler]

I don't.

[Max Bultman]

We're bullying this poor guy right now.

[Corey Proman]

I know. It's. He's like, where's Chris Peters?

[Max Bultman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Wheeler]

If. If it's Harley versus Sandheim, I'm just taking Harley, I think.

[Max Bultman]

Okay, well, then would you leave Harley Taves?

[Scott Wheeler]

Is that.

[Max Bultman]

Is that. If that's the compromise, then all right, we'll leave Harley Taves.

[Corey Proman]

All right.

[Max Bultman]

All right. We went in a big circle there.

[Scott Wheeler]

When power makes the team, though, I want to remember this conversation.

[Max Bultman]

Very fair. Very fair. Then the last one's in goal. We have Bennington and Kemper. I'm not going with Bennington here. Corey, like Scott. Scott's suggestions are Greaves and Thompson. But, like, I know. I know Bennington's track record in two more years, I can't imagine it's still there.

[Scott Wheeler]

Hoffer played more games last year. I think Hoffer is going to be their guy by the end of this season. You're not bringing a backup goalie with his own organization as the starting. And he'll be. He's going to. We've been talking about a couple of guys who are going to be 35. I think he's going to be 37 two years from now. Like, I just. I know they love him. I know he's been good for them in a couple of really big games at multiple. At two different events. He. He was terrible in the NHL last year. Like, I. I just see zero path for him. I think it. And they. They've. They clearly like Greaves. Like, they. They clearly have time for Greaves. I think Thompson and Greaves feel like they'll be the guys for me. I just think the Benningtons and the Kempers and the. Those guys are going to. Going to sort of gradually be aged out here.

[Corey Proman]

I don't really have strong opinions on this one. What. What do you want to do, Max?

[Max Bultman]

I think. I think Thompson over Bennington is the switch I would make. I'm fine with Kemper. Like Greaves, I think has a chance to get there, but I do have a hard time projecting.

[Scott Wheeler]

Greaves numbers are phenomenal. Like, among the best in the. Over the last couple of years. Yeah, he'll be two years older. Like, he'll have a. He's going to be the starter in Columbus next year.

[Max Bultman]

And with everything on the line. Do you see Canada going with a 60 goalie with. With as short a track record as he has?

[Scott Wheeler]

If. If he's the backup to Thompson, I don't see why you don't give him an opportunity to get into some games and get ready for the Olympics potentially. You. You have to find that next guy. And I'm not convinced that any of the young Canadian goalies are going to be there come four years from now at the Olympics either. Like, it's going to be a Greaves type that they have to go to.

[Max Bultman]

I think Thompson's the one for me and I don't really have a strong feeling between Kemper and Greaves for the two.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah, I, I'll. I'll give. We can just give Scott Greaves, so passionate about it as the two he was.

[Scott Wheeler]

Appreciate it.

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[Max Bultman]

All right, let's now go to the reigning Olympic gold medalist, Corey Team usa. And if. If Canada's in an interesting position in how they go with their roster, usa, you could argue, is an even more interesting position. They. They took a philosophy that took some heat. They left some really talented scorers and offensive players at home. They come back with a gold medal. It did not always look that convincing, and I think that puts them in a really interesting spot here. The age of these players I think is a key factor here, though, because there's a lot of guys who were in their prime then still going to be squarely in their prime two years from now and even four years from now.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah, I. Given that they won and given the age of a lot of their players, I don't expect that this roster is going to see significant turnover two years from now. I think it's going to be 80, 90%. The same players that we saw at the Olympic Olympics will be at. At the World Cup. There will be, you know, one. One, two, three, four spots up for mix. Maybe one D spot, maybe, and. And then you. And then maybe a goal, a backup goalie spot, and that's probably it, I think. So.

[Max Bultman]

Let's start with the forwards here and the guys that we agree on as returners. Jack Hughes, Jack Eichel, Matt Boldy, Matthew Tkachuk, Austin Matthews, Brady Tkachuk, Jake Gensel, and Dylan Larkin. Those are the guys that were. Those are the eight that were locking in. That leaves four spots with the caveat

[Scott Wheeler]

that Brady better play better. For me, like Brady, I think he's

[Max Bultman]

more likely to be the captain of this team than to be cut from it.

[Scott Wheeler]

I disagree.

[Max Bultman]

That's totally fair. I get it. He did not have a good finish down the stretch. And the thing that freaked me out, by the way, just as a tangent, did you see the clip of, like, his vision going. That scared the crap out of me. You saw that? Did you see that late in the season? Look. Look it up. It's wild. All right, let's go to the. To the first debate here. Let's talk about the two returning guys that I think people are going to be the most fired up about. Brock Nelson and J.T. miller. These guys were good players. They played their roles. They were controversial picks for the Olympic team, but they're going to be two more years older. And the mobility, I think, in Miller's case was already getting to be an issue. Nelson, I think, is going to be, what, 35 by this world Cup?

[Corey Proman]

Yeah. The Miller one, I could see him, like, I think that's one that you can. I can see the argument to move on from Nelson's going to be tough because I thought, one, he was quite good at the Olympics. He was. He was. He had a really good NHL season and the role. I thought he did a really good job filling that role. So the question is, if you're not bringing him, who's. Who's going to be out there that will, I guess, be better in that role down the middle?

[Scott Wheeler]

Shane Pinto.

[Corey Proman]

He's. He's. He moves better than Pinto, though, doesn't he?

[Scott Wheeler]

I would disagree.

[Max Bultman]

And I think Pinto's a good skater,

[Scott Wheeler]

but I think Pinto's an equal already defensively and by then will be like, Shane Pinto was on my Selkie ballot this year. Like, I think Shane Pinto's one of the best defensive centers in the league.

[Corey Proman]

He's A good player. Like, I like him. I think he's reasonable. Yeah, yeah.

[Max Bultman]

He took the toughest quality of competition in the NHL last season as well. Shane Pinto did. And so for him to get, you know, really strong two way results, you know, he's kind of the big bot to me. He's your future Brock Nelson. And I think, I think slotting him in that 4C spot does make a lot of sense, Scott.

[Corey Proman]

So what do you want to do? You want to keep Nelson or put Pinto in?

[Max Bultman]

Max, I want to put Pinto in.

[Corey Proman]

All right. We didn't mention him in the locks, but I, I don't think any of us raised any contestant that Logan Cooley has to be somewhere on this team.

[Max Bultman]

Well, he's not a returner, but yes, like, he's one of the guys that we penciled in and I think he makes a ton of sense too. And he could ultimately be an option at 4C for this team. I think he can play that kind of game. But yeah, we've got him penciled in.

[Scott Wheeler]

Or maybe, maybe by then he's your 3C and Larkin's your 4C. Right. There's flexibility there.

[Corey Proman]

I think we like him on the wing too, just because of the speed he has. He can work, you know. Yeah. Go out and get him. So then we leave that one spot on the fourth, we're get to the third line because the third line, it'll be a really interesting conversation. But the fourth line, then we have one more spot here. So I think J.T. miller will be out and then which of these other guys are in? I think we're talking about Nies, we're talking about Beniers, talking about Leonard. Is there any preference for any of those among that group? For us, I think from the names that we've just said, Mylene is nice, but I don't. But I think it's really close.

[Max Bultman]

I feel similarly, I want to see what Ryan Leonard looks like in a year and a half, obviously, but that's not the benefit we have today.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah, I think, I think it's between those two.

[Scott Wheeler]

I could also. I would throw. I could imagine Jackson Blake in that kind of a role if he continues to take steps here. Like, I could imagine Jackson as a fourth liner, but I would lean. I would probably lean nice. I'm certainly like I'm out on Miller two years from now.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah. I want a heavy player who, yes, can score and I think both Knives and Leonard can score, but also is just going to be really committed to their role and everything. I've seen from both knives and Leonard suggests that that's them. Nice is a little more proven today. That's where I would lean to him as well, Corey. But I, I want to leave the door open for Ryan Leonard. I mean, Beniers was the other kind of name we kicked around and you know, it's possible he might even in a year and a half we might be talking about him the same way we're talking about Pinto and for that spot. But my lean I think would be right now for nice.

[Corey Proman]

Yep.

[Scott Wheeler]

Okay, so we've got Cooley nice centered by Pinto as our fourth line.

[Max Bultman]

Yep. Which I think is a good, very good line.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah.

[Corey Proman]

So then we have a, we have a third line right now with Larkin in between Gensel and question mark. And that question mark I think has a lot of options. Cutter Gaultier, Cole Caufield, Jason Robertson, Kyle Conner, Clayton Keller, maybe even Jackson Blake. A lot of really good American forwards out there to pick from. Didn't even mention Trevor Zegras. My leanest cutter, go Che, the six three guy who can wheel who scored 40 goals. I would guess that's what they would pick too. But would it for that one spot, what would you guys go with?

[Scott Wheeler]

I think you have to find a way for one of those three sort of really, really productive players to be on. I would probably lean any of go of Caulfield, Robertson, Connor, and would probably lean Caulfield before Robertson and Conner. Those are three of the four. If you look, look at the NHL scoring table last year the top four scoring Americans were Jack Eichel, Cole Caufield, Jason Robertson and Kyle Conner. And there is a scenario here where we have one of the four highest scoring Americans in the NHL last year actually on the roster and three of them not on the roster.

[Max Bultman]

Well, that was, that was the case at the Olympics.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah. Connor's gotten a couple kicks of the can here and he's kind of failed every, every time. So like I kind of have a hard time seeing him get another top N spot.

[Scott Wheeler]

I would, I would lean Caulfield over Gautier.

[Max Bultman]

Personally, I, I will also add like I think Alex DeBrincat can get into that conversation too. Especially if we're going to talk about Jackson Blake, like debrin. It's got much more of a, of a tenacity to his game than I think people realize. 40 goal scorer, 85 point player. He's only going to be 30 years old at this tournament. He's another one that I would raise. But of, of the names you said Scott like it to me, Caulfield is the one because of the skating. We also saw like, I mean, look, the three on three wizard, that, that did come into play in the Olympics and that they could have used him multiple occasions.

[Scott Wheeler]

So they don't have a ton of flank guys on the power play here either. Like Jack Hughes runs it, obviously, but they've, they've got a lot of bigger guy. Like their power play is going to have the Kachuks, who are more net front bumper guys. I, I do think Caulfield on the flank on one of those two power plays is, is an asset on top of what I think he can contribute offensively at 5 on 5.

[Max Bultman]

All right, so let's go with.

[Scott Wheeler]

And there's built in chemistry with Hughes and some of these guys as well.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah. And that would actually be an interesting thing is do you actually end up having to kind of rearrange the lines? Because I think that would be something to potentially take advantage of. But let's go with Caulfield then, Scott, if you're in support of that.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah, I like that too.

[Max Bultman]

All right, moving on to the defenseman

[Scott Wheeler]

for two can be our. Our 13th. Our imaginary 13th.

[Max Bultman]

Imaginary 13th, yes. Moving on to the defenseman here. Corey, you mentioned at the age early on, like, that's very true on the defense here because you still got prime age Quinn Hughes, you still got a prime age. Zach Warrenski, a rising into his prime Jake Sanderson, a rising into his prime, Brock favorite and a prime age Charlie McAvoy. I have a hard time seeing any of those guys not on this roster. I have a hard time seeing any of those guys not on the 2030 roster. And that really only leaves one spot on the blue line.

[Corey Proman]

And that's kind of where this debate gets interesting because you look at Jacob Slavin's age and you're like, he's the one guy who could theoretically age out. But will he, given that he's been very good for them in the last two tournaments, that he was very, you know, he just won a Stanley Cup. Now, the name I nominated was Keandre Miller, because I thought in that playoff run, I thought Miller was just as good as Slavin, if not better. But there is a body of work to consider there, and I think it makes for a very fascinating debate. I think you lean towards Slaven Max, correct?

[Max Bultman]

Yes. I would just go with the proven thing and we'll see what happens as he ages, if the body, if he loses a step. But to me, I look at Jacob Slavin as a gold standard defensive defenseman in this league. He's been there, done that. He was an important player for them. I have a hard time taking him off.

[Corey Proman]

I think it's reasonable to keep him too.

[Scott Wheeler]

You know who was also really good in the playoffs?

[Max Bultman]

Lane Hudson. Look, I get it.

[Scott Wheeler]

Wayne Hudson is. Is a. Is already. Keandre Miller was a really nice story last year. Had a really good year. I do wonder if Keandre Miller is a true best on best player. Lane Hudson is a. Is a better hockey player, a significantly better hockey player and had a significantly better year than Jacob Slave and Keandre Miller.

[Max Bultman]

If I was picking a number one defenseman for an NHL team, I would take Lane Hudson at this point. But we're picking the sixth defenseman on the Olympic team.

[Scott Wheeler]

Who says he has to be the sixth defenseman? Why can't Brock Faber play on the third pair?

[Corey Proman]

So it's gonna be. It's gonna be tough to take a guy who was a top 4D on your gold medalist and now he's two years.

[Scott Wheeler]

It's not tough when that player is effing Hudson like he's. We're talking about a world class. We're talking about one of the best already. One of the best players in the world.

[Max Bultman]

Scott, you know who also had a really good playoffs? Jackson Lacombe. Who Team USA has already picked over Lane Hudson for an international team once. He did have a great playoffs.

[Scott Wheeler]

I don't think we realize how good Dwayne Hudson was last.

[Max Bultman]

We do. We do.

[Corey Proman]

The issue is if this, if Quinn Hughes, you know, hurts his knee or whatever kind of thing, then Hudson's goes.

[Max Bultman]

He's the guy.

[Corey Proman]

He goes right in kind of thing. But I think on a team that already has whatever, you know, Matthews, the Hughes, Hughes, the Kachuks, Ruinski. If you bring Hudson, is he on the first power play unit?

[Scott Wheeler]

No, I think he's in the mix.

[Corey Proman]

I'm asking you.

[Scott Wheeler]

I think there's apps. I'm not saying it's the decision I'd make, but there is an argument to be made that Lane Hudson.

[Corey Proman]

But make the decision. Tell me who your top power play.

[Scott Wheeler]

Especially if you want to free up Quinn Hughes to play more at Scott.

[Corey Proman]

Answer the damn question. Who's.

[Scott Wheeler]

I'll make the case for. I'll make the case for Lane Hudson over Quinn Hughes.

[Corey Proman]

Oh, okay. Well, I think that's crazy.

[Max Bultman]

But anyways, it's hard for me to see he's awesome.

[Scott Wheeler]

How is that crazy?

[Corey Proman]

Because Quinn Hughes has won Norris Trophy. Well, Won a Nors trophy. Sorry.

[Scott Wheeler]

And he can just the hard out on PP2 and, and. And play a ton of minutes at five on five.

[Max Bultman]

That's like, that's going too far. Like, like Lane's awesome. He has, he has exceeded so many people's expectations, including mine. He's an amazing defenseman. I think you could definitely make the case for him as a top 10 D in the league. In the league. But in this role, like, I don't

[Scott Wheeler]

see how I can put him over.

[Max Bultman]

He's not over Quinn Hughes for one. And he's not for power play.

[Scott Wheeler]

I'm not talking about in terms of the minutes. You're playing him over the course of a 60 minute game.

[Max Bultman]

So do you think there's three?

[Scott Wheeler]

There's three. No. Quinn Hughes can be on the power play. He can be on PP1, he can be on PP2. The top three power play quarterbacks in the league are Kale, McCarlane, Hudson and Quinn Hughes. Like, those are the. Those are the threes.

[Max Bultman]

Just won you a gold medal. So why are you going away from him?

[Scott Wheeler]

Because Lane Hudson is the most dynamic player at that position. More than the Car, more than Hughes in the conversation.

[Max Bultman]

Okay. That's not what you said.

[Scott Wheeler]

But you. Okay, so you guys talk about pk. You, you don't want. You don't want your top guys on the PK because you need them more at 5 on 5. Why not have Quinn Hughes on PP too? So that.

[Max Bultman]

Because the PP is not taxing like the PK is. The PK is taxing because you're playing defense the whole time. You're running around chasing, you're taking shots to the legs.

[Scott Wheeler]

Do you think there's a big gap between Quinn Hughes and Lane Hudson on the power play?

[Max Bultman]

I think Quinn Hughes is probably the best defenseman in the NHL, period.

[Scott Wheeler]

I agree.

[Corey Proman]

I think once they get set up in the zone, they're similar. But I think Hughes is skating is like way better and his ability to gain the zone, I think is way better. But I think once they're in the zone and they have the puck on their stick, then it gets real close.

[Max Bultman]

I fully get how much it sucks for Lane Hudson to be a top 10 defender in the league and not make the top six for his own country. But it's because of role deployment. It's not because he's better than. Charlie McAvoy is the number one defenseman in the NHL.

[Corey Proman]

Just tell Montreal when they play Columbus, when they play Minnesota, just go after Wainsky. Just go after Hughes. Just Take one of them out and he's in. Like that's basically how it's going to work.

[Max Bultman]

Like, it's all moot to me. I'm sticking with Slavin. Like, it's like, this is like my conversation is just. I'm sticking with Slavin in that role.

[Corey Proman]

Right. And like, let's go back.

[Max Bultman]

I just can't believe we got to a point where we're debating Quinn Hughes as the, as the number one power play quarterback.

[Corey Proman]

Let's. Let's get.

[Scott Wheeler]

For what it's worth, I think by the end of next year we. Wayne Hudson might be a top five defenseman in the league instead of a top ten.

[Max Bultman]

He might be. He might.

[Corey Proman]

Let's get, let's get away from the philosophical debate for a second. Let's talk about what USA will actually do. Scott, do you think USA will bring Lane if, if Hughes and Wenski are available, put the top six.

[Scott Wheeler]

If they're thinking about the Olympics, I think. And you're. And you're talking about Jacob Slavin versus Lane Hudson. I think you absolutely have to. Lane Hudson.

[Max Bultman]

That's why I brought it up earlier because if you're viewing this as a lab and as a training ground and an experimentation thing, this is the perfect environment to test Scott's theory. But if you view this as an end in itself, then I think you're bringing Jacob Slavin.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah. I just wonder if the same team that didn't bring Fox is going to do that. It's basically going to be the same management group probably like plus or minus one or two guys. So I do wonder about that.

[Max Bultman]

If, if Lane Hudson was Canadian, he'd be their number. He'd be, you know, he'd be in their top four. No doubt. He's. He's in there over Bouchard. You know, the car is still there. So I think Picard still probably power play one. But he's in their top four. No doubt. But it's like I have a hard time seeing him over Hughes, who I think is the bestie in the NHL and Warensky, who's the reigning Norris winner and just set up the golden goal in the Olympics. I really just have a hard time seeing how he takes it from either of them.

[Scott Wheeler]

I, I don't.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah. But to your point, earlier now, like Slavin, Kanj Miller, they were both 25, 26 minute night guys on a team that just won the Stanley cup and Slaving just won a UO gold medal.

[Max Bultman]

So I, I'm not going Away from slaving. That's like, that's where I'm staying.

[Corey Proman]

So despite all this, I don't think

[Scott Wheeler]

it's inconceivable that Lane Hudson has a Eric Carlson 100 point season at some point in the next three or four years. And I think that like if that happened next year, if lane Hudson had 95 to 100 points next year, there's no way. And he's young and you're. And you're looking ahead to not just the next Olympics, but even the Olympics after that. Like, I think you're crazy. You're crazy, crazy, crazy not to take him.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah, it's conceivable.

[Max Bultman]

I agree. I don't disagree that it's possible that he can do that, but he hasn't done it. And I'm not gonna put him over guys who have done it and continue to do it. Might do it.

[Scott Wheeler]

What do you mean he hasn't done it? He was one of the best players in the playoffs and finished.

[Max Bultman]

You just said it's conceivable.

[Scott Wheeler]

He's Eric Charles 100 points.

[Max Bultman]

He hasn't done that yet.

[Scott Wheeler]

He, he still just had one of the best seasons in the league.

[Max Bultman]

Yes, I. No one's denying that. Like you're arguing with a wall here. Like, I'm not denying that he's awesome. I'm denying that he's better than Quinn Hughes.

[Scott Wheeler]

No, you're better than six guys.

[Max Bultman]

No, I'm not. I'm denying that he's better for the number six role than a couple guys.

[Scott Wheeler]

Why not play Rock Faber on the third pairing? Like if you can't, if you're obsessed, you can.

[Corey Proman]

I think, I think Faber's a little overrated. I just.

[Max Bultman]

You argued him on PP1.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, I think favor one PP2.

[Max Bultman]

Why not playing two minutes a night then? Why not just bring one Hudson and play him every position on the ice?

[Scott Wheeler]

No, there, there is something to playing him on the power play and freeing up one of Orinski or Hughes to play more at 5 on 5. Like, I don't know why that's.

[Max Bultman]

I disagree that the, that the power play is the place to sacrifice from like you. You want to protect your stars from.

[Scott Wheeler]

I don't think you're sacrificing. I think you're upgrading potentially.

[Max Bultman]

You keep doing that. You keep saying it and then walking it back like you're upgrading potentially. He's there in the conversation. Like I'm at. We have to make a decision here. Is it Quinn Hughes or is it LANE HUDSON ON PP1, it's Quinn Hughes. Like, how is it not?

[Scott Wheeler]

I think it could be. I think it could. And if it's not, it's Lane on PP2. Like Lane's better than Zach on for PP2.

[Corey Proman]

But. But that's where the conversation gets tricky. And it's why Jason Robertson and Cole Caulfield got like, got let home. It's like you a guy who's second power play and gets 8 to 10 even strength minutes is not a really valuable role on a national team. Those. And whether you disagree with that is not. Is kind of irrelevant because if you look at the history of how these teams get constructed, guys don't get brought onto these teams to play that type of role. If you're going to play, I'll take 10 to 12 even straight minutes a night. He has to be on first power play at this point.

[Max Bultman]

I want to see it just because I want to see it and settle this debate. Like, I'm sick of having this hypothetical where we get to pretend like you get to, you know, have it every which way. Like I, I just want to see it. Now I'm, I'm going to vote for Hudson because I just want to see it.

[Scott Wheeler]

And maybe you put, Maybe you put 2D on one of the power plays and why can't Lane why can't you bring Lane Hudson and have lane Hudson playing 12 minutes a night and break open a gold medal game playing against softer competition? Why would you not want that on your.

[Max Bultman]

Wait, wait. A gold medal game against softer competition

[Scott Wheeler]

against the. The third pairing or fourth line of, of a Team Canada? Yeah, that's softer competition.

[Max Bultman]

The soft competition that we just picked for team Canada was. Who was Anthony Sorelli? Anthony Sorelli, Logan Stankevin. And who was the. Who was the third forward here?

[Scott Wheeler]

You don't think Lane Hudson can cook those guys on a shit on any given shift?

[Max Bultman]

I have a hard time calling it soft competition and I have a hard time saying anyone's cooking those guys.

[Scott Wheeler]

You want players who can win their matchups, who can make a play to break open a game. Yeah, I think it's.

[Max Bultman]

Don't disagree with that.

[Scott Wheeler]

Then why. Yeah, why isn't Lane Hudson that guy for you?

[Corey Proman]

Okay, so get.

[Scott Wheeler]

No matter what the minutes I feel

[Corey Proman]

like we got, I feel like we went off track.

[Scott Wheeler]

He plays 28, 29 minutes a night for a, for a contending playoff team.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah, so. So do everyone that we've mentioned. Well, not 28 minutes because they're four words but like.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah, and yeah, I'm not Sure. Every single one that's on a contender. But I get what you're saying, you know, but I get what you're saying.

[Max Bultman]

Well, Sorelli Wilson, like, the guys he's talking about is the soft competition. Yeah, right. Or the comp. Or the guys that we're directly comparing him to, like Slavin, like, that's a pretty good team that he's on.

[Corey Proman]

Let's go. Let's. Let's go backwards here because again, the exercise, which I think we've kind of maybe lost. Lost his.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah.

[Max Bultman]

Predictably got derailed by the name. We always get predictably derailed is predicting

[Corey Proman]

what Team USA will actually do now. I think I kind of agree with Scott that I think Faber might be getting a little overrated. And he probably got like, you know, elevated because of who the manager was there and because he also played really well, particularly in that four nations. I didn't think his Olympics, he was as good as the four nations, but he still was very good. Like, yeah, you could argue that. Is he one of the four best American defensemen? Ivy, if you're doing a player ranking, he's not in the NHL.

[Max Bultman]

In the NHL, he is.

[Corey Proman]

You. You again, you're doing. So Hughes, Rowinski. And then is he above Hudson for you?

[Max Bultman]

He's Hudson and Sanders. I think I'd go Sanderson. Next is three. And then Hudson will be the fourth best NHL defenseman there.

[Corey Proman]

So I said you don't think he's one of the top four USA defensemen, but he's probably going to be a top.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah, yeah. Favor.

[Corey Proman]

Yes, but he's probably the top four on this team in part because he's a right shot and just to do how well he played on the national team. But yeah, we could see him get bumped down to the third pair, but I. But I still think you're putting. Like I said, I think I'm with you, Max. Like, I can see they are going to keep slaving unless he really falls off in the next year or two.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah. And you wanted to do.

[Corey Proman]

And then Sanderson and then. So then are we leaving? Like, you know, who am I missing here? Exactly. Are we cutting Faber or you're cutting Sanderson for Hudson? Those are tough for me to do.

[Max Bultman]

I'm not cutting them.

[Scott Wheeler]

I would just have it be Hughes, McAvoy, Warensky, Faber, Sanderson, Hudson and not bring Slavin or Miller.

[Max Bultman]

Why would you not want a pair like Slavin, Sanderson, like in.

[Scott Wheeler]

Why not just have that. Why not just have that third pair be Faber, Sanderson.

[Max Bultman]

And so then.

[Scott Wheeler]

And then you play Hughes, Mac and you play Hughes, McAvoy, Werensky and Hudson

[Max Bultman]

in your top four and so you're the second pair would be Warrensky and Hudson.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yep. And then Hughes and McAvoy.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah.

[Max Bultman]

For a pair that's going to play that many minutes, I just would rather have like Warrensky already brings so many of the elements Hudson does. I would just want the guy who's a killer defender and that's, that's maybe,

[Scott Wheeler]

maybe you play Sanderson in the top four then. So maybe it's Hughes, McAvoy, Wenski, Sanderson, and it's Faber and Hudson as your third pairing.

[Corey Proman]

So let's, let's keep in mind for everyone who's listening, we're using NHL lineup criteria for this one for. Because it's the World Cup. If this was a double IHF competition and we could bring both Slavin and Hudson, this would be a much easier conversation. But we're trying to fit a seven into six here instead. But if we got seven choices, I feel like this would be. Have been a much shorter conversation.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah, sure.

[Scott Wheeler]

And then Rangers fans would have been yelling at us about Adam Fox.

[Max Bultman]

What a memory that is. When that was debate.

[Corey Proman]

I don't know what are you leaning Max?

[Max Bultman]

We can go Hudson Faber as the third pair. That's a, that's an acceptable compromise.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah. I feel like I'm convinced Scott yelled loud enough.

[Scott Wheeler]

I don't think there's ever been an F bomb dropped on this show. So Max might have had a first there.

[Corey Proman]

Like I could see the argument that like Hudson is going to be like in his prime then and Slave is probably going to be like Slaving's Pike's still going to be really, really good, but maybe starts the skating starts to slow down there a little bit.

[Max Bultman]

Like I just think is like McAvoy's health I guess is like, like yeah,

[Scott Wheeler]

McAvoy,

[Max Bultman]

but his health. Yeah, but he's. I still think all situations stud. So.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, he'll be on the team.

[Max Bultman]

All right. So I'm good with Hughes, McAvoy, Warrenski, Sanderson, Hudson, Faber. I can live with that one.

[Corey Proman]

I do think that, that NHL people

[Max Bultman]

but I'm not putting them on PP1.

[Corey Proman]

Yeah, that's fine. I think, I think NHL people will look at the two blue lines we constructed for Canada and USA and say that's not what's going to happen because I think we gravitated more towards offense and the point producing puck movers and how we constructed it and I'm guessing one or two of those guys that we think are for sure on that team are not for sure on that team.

[Scott Wheeler]

I also think you're just talking. Yeah, I think you're talking about two completely different calibers of blue lines as well. Like this.

[Corey Proman]

Oh, for sure. No, it's not. It's just how we ended up getting there despite different ways.

[Scott Wheeler]

I just. Wait. I just think with Canada, you run out of names a little bit sooner. Like those guys are just on because they're the best players. Whereas the best players might not be on for Team USA, which is the conversation, frankly, that we've just spent 20

[Corey Proman]

minutes because Canada's probably has a better team, I think on paper. But they. Their blue line is like there's not as convincing.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah, I think it's why USA won. Like, I know that everyone wants to make it all about Hella Buck, but I do think, and I know Canada got their shots, they missed some chances, but I think when you have a blue line like that, you always give yourself a chance to win any kind of game.

[Corey Proman]

Speaking of which, USA goalies.

[Max Bultman]

Oh, God, I thought we were done.

[Scott Wheeler]

Hella Buck's going to be taking his walker into the net, I think.

[Max Bultman]

You can't go away from him.

[Scott Wheeler]

No, it's gonna be Hella Buck even at whatever. He'll be what, 35 hella bucks.

[Corey Proman]

Well, we could just recap this because we know we're gonna go one of those I said oddingers too. You two said Swayman. We're gonna go. Swayman is the two.

[Max Bultman]

Yeah, Swayman two for me.

[Corey Proman]

All right.

[Max Bultman]

Thanks, Cory, for wrapping up.

[Corey Proman]

Lovely, lovely conversation.

[Scott Wheeler]

Great job.

[Max Bultman]

I love you. It was never personal. All right, that's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic Cocky show Prospect series. We're back with you for more soon.

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