Max Boltman (3:02)

And it's also just the latest example of a player comes available. The second you hear Vegas linked to them.

Vince McGaliano (3:07)

Okay.

Max Boltman (3:08)

You kind of know that that's where it's headed.

Mark Lazarus (3:10)

Yeah, they tend to be the team that takes these big swings and when you look at what they gave up, it's a lot like it, it. I do think that it upgrades the team, but it is a lot. And that's probably why this team is able to get these trades done. Because they're willing to give up that extra first round pick that maybe some.

Frankie Corrado (3:25)

Other teams aren't at the risk of turning you into like a chamber of commerce shill for Vegas. What is it about Vegas that makes them so like. Because they're right guys, if the team wants them, they will resign there almost every single time. Is it, is it as simple as no state taxes and nice weather and.

Mark Lazarus (3:44)

A team that wants to win? I think that that helps. I think the fact like the Arizona Coyotes had no state tax and good weather and like the Florida Panthers had that for a very long. And they never got any free agents until they were really good. I think the fact that they're good, they, you know the front office is going to try to do what it has to to win. I think players like being in a spot where if there's a missing piece to the team, they know the front office isn't going to waste any time to try to add that piece. They're going to try to do everything they can to give you what you can to win. So that, and then obviously the weather's good. These guys can live wherever they want in the summer, but in the winter they have to live in their NHL city. And here you can golf 24, 7, 365. There's night golf here, there's. You can golf anytime you want. And that's probably what hockey players like to do most other than playing hockey. And yeah, that's why you live.

Frankie Corrado (4:37)

Right.

Mark Lazarus (4:37)

It is, it is, it is why I live here. And, and it's a, it's a, it's. You get to keep a higher percentage of your money at the end of the day that's probably the biggest factor. But yeah, it's it. There are a lot of things here. And the Golden Knights have realized that we can take the risk, get him here and we think we'll be able to sign him. Give us a few months with this guy and he'll sign.

Frankie Corrado (4:56)

This Anderson trade, it's felt inevitable almost since the Alex Petrangelo news came out. Like, how does he change the dynamic? You know, he's not a great defensive player, Rasmus Anderson, but when you have Shea Theodore already on that right side, what is that, what is that going to free up, you know, Rasmus Anderson to be able to do in Vegas?

Mark Lazarus (5:12)

So the Golden Knights are in a seven game win streak right now, but just prior to that they had lost eight of nine and things looked bad. I honestly thought during that stretch where they lost eight of nine, it wasn't the best start prior to that either. I thought this was the worst spot the Golden Knights had been in in probably nine years of existence. Like, it was rough. And I remember talking to Mark Stone and I told him like, what is the one thing that you believe if this clicks, we'll play the hockey we think we can play. And he told me, it's breaking the puck out of the zone. He's like, I think it's not just on the defenseman, it's on us forwards also. But we aren't breaking the puck out of the zone cleanly enough. And not only does that create turnovers that lead to goals against us, the Golden Knights are super dangerous in transition. That's how they've always been. They may not be the best team at cycling the puck around in the offensive zone and scoring with a screen, but if they can get the puck to their forwards in transition on the rush, they finish about as. At a. At a rate about as high as any team in the league. So Stone told me, we've got to get the puck to our forwards quicker. The forwards have got to make themselves available better, and we've got to get some, some offense in transition. Now over these last seven games that has happened and Shea Theodore coming back from injuries a big part of that. I think Rasm Anderson just gives them one more puck moving defenseman on the blue line. I don't know how Bruce Cassidy is going to set it up. If he wants to, he can have Shea Theodore, Noah Hannifin and Rasmus Anderson each have their own pair and there's not a second of the game. You don't have one of those three on the ice to help get the puck and those quick ups to your forwards and start that transition offense. Maybe he ends up putting two of them on the same pair, but I think in the end that's the biggest thing that Anderson's going to bring to this team is just getting the Puck up to those talented forwards as fast as possible and letting them do their work in transition.

Max Boltman (6:58)

I think the interesting thing too, Laz, is like, where does this put Vegas in the. In the Western Conference? Because we had talked about this as the Centrals kind of year, and now I think you put Vegas there. I start stacking them up. I think that they're better than Dallas right now. Minnesota. I think it's a debate. Obviously, everyone's still kind of chasing Colorado, but they're all of a sudden they're squarely right back in that true contender status.

Frankie Corrado (7:20)

Not just that they have a much better path to the conference final, obviously. I mean, those three, those Big three, Central Conference, Central Division teams are going to be beating each other up for two rounds. So whether it's Colorado, Dallas or Minnesota that gets to the Western Conference final, they're going to be spent to a large degree. Whereas Vegas. Yeah, I mean, Edmonton's there. Edmonton's never going to be an easy out. Yeah, but the road is so much smoother coming out of that Pacific Division than it is coming out of the Central. So, yeah, you have to like Vegas's chances in that conference final if and when they get there, given how, how exhausting those first two rounds are going to be for those big Central Division teams.

Max Boltman (7:53)

Jesse, I did want to ask you about the Mitch Marner game against Toronto, the previous one where he was booed and the reception there. Like, how did you. How do you think he took to that?

Mark Lazarus (8:04)

I mean, he won the game, so it's easier to, like, put a smile on afterwards and be happy about it and say all the right things when you, when you win in a thrilling game like that. Eichel with an epic overtime go. But yeah, it's interesting. There was a ton of Maple Leafs fans in the building, as there always is here in Vegas when a Canadian team comes through. And they were loud. I was, I was even shocked at how loud the boos were. I had people texting me, like, hey, does ESPN just like, are they just like jacking up the audience, like audio through the roof, or are the boos actually loud enough for everyone in the building to hear? And it's like, no, it's very audible. Like, every time Mitch Marner touches the puck, the entire arena is booing him. So it's going to be super interesting to see how loud those boos are in Toronto. It's going to be tougher for him to deal with it. I remember going with the team back to Buffalo the first time Eichel went To Buffalo. And it was that way. They booed him as loud as they could basically every time he touched the puck from start to finish. We'll see if that's what they do in Toronto. It's going to be interesting. I mean, Mitch Marner has been a good but not great fit here. They're still trying to figure out how to use him. They've been playing him at Center, I think 12 of the last 13 games he's played center, which he hadn't done in his professional career prior to this. He hadn't done it since junior hockey. He has been a good fit and I think there are a bunch of reasons why Cassidy has put him there. It's surprising, honestly, when you see his attributes, like how good he is defensively, how good of a skater he is. He has a great stick. It's surprising he hasn't been tried at center before because it's working pretty well. But yeah, the experiment is, is I still think there's another level to Mitch Marner's game that we haven't seen here in Vegas. And if. And when he hits that, this team, that's when I, I think the Anderson edition, Mitch Marner hitting that next level and then Aiden Hill coming back. If he can be the Aiden Hill that he was two years ago when he went on that cup run or even last year, early in the year when he was Team Canada's goalie and it. And it looked like he deserved it. If he can get to that level and the Mitch Marner level up and the Rasmus Anderson addition, I think that's those three things will put them on the level of the other contenders in the West.

Max Boltman (10:08)

Yeah. All right, let's go to some goalie stuff here. It's been a while since we really did a goalie deep dive with you here and you had a great one last week on Brandon Bussey, who's been a great story this season. Undrafted goalie and he's just been off to a torrid start to his NHL career this year in Carolina.

Mark Lazarus (10:24)

Yeah, the stat that I have that's, that's pretty wild is the Hurricanes points percentage in only the games Brandon Bussey starts is actually higher than the Colorado Avalanche's points percentage this year. So we've, we've talked a lot about how about how ridiculous the Avalanche are. Well, the Hurricanes when buses in net are actually better than the Avalanche are by points percentage. So that just shows you not like he, he has all those records. He's the fastest goalie to 10 wins in NHL history. He did it in 11 games. He was 10 and 1. He's 173 and 1 now. And yes, the Hurricanes protect him incredibly well. This is a team that they give up the fewest shots, the fewest expected goals, the fewest high danger chances. They have the puck most of the game, so it makes their goalies life easy. But they also haven't won a Stanley cup. And the, it could be the missing piece on this team. We've seen them make huge trades, we've seen them shuffle things around. They've been right there. And one of the things that sticks out to me is seven playoff appearances in a row for the Carolina Hurricanes. In all seven post seasons they've used multiple goalies. That's not good. When you're having to turn to another goalie in the middle of a playoff run, that typically means that that playoff run didn't go well. So to me, Brandon Buss, he's kind of come out of nowhere. But if he can be this in the playoffs, like this could be the missing piece. The Hurricanes have been waiting for for years to try to get over that Humphrey.

Frankie Corrado (11:47)

I mean Freddie Andersen's behind that same team and he is sub.500 with an.869 save percentage. So just playing behind Carolina doesn't guarantee success. Certainly helps. I mean Buses numbers are good, they're not spectacular. But that's all you really need to do behind Carolina is be pretty good, right? Yep.

Mark Lazarus (12:04)

And I, and I did the deep dive on like what has made him good. I spoke to his college goalie coach at Western Michigan, JJ Crew and he, he told me like I can remember going in on Bussy on like a one on one or a shootout situation in practice and you get up to him and then you try to deke around him and it's like astounding how you just run out of room. Like he's like. I've never seen a goalie where as a shooter he's just on top of you. And then I start watching the film and it's like you can see it in, in every situation, not just one on one situations. He takes such aggressive angles. He doesn't kind of, he like most goalies will come out to the top of their crease and then as the shooter is coming towards them, they sort of fade slowly back into their net and by the time they make the save they're like on their own goal line, like fading back. Bussy does not. He comes out, takes his depth and when you try to go around him, he goes straight Sideways. So as a shooter, you're so accustomed to a goalie, like, backing up for you with him, he doesn't. He almost is attacking you and it's like you run out of room and you see guys run into him. You see guys just basically shoot it straight into his pads because they've run up against the goalie. And I think that not only does it surprise shooters, I think it is the perfect style of goalie specifically for the Carolina system, because what does Carolina do so well? To me, better, more than any other thing they do well. It's. They take away time and space away from the other team. They blitz you on the forecheck. They are super aggressive in the neutral zone, in the defensive zone. They don't sit back and let you pass the puck around the outside. They pressure you. They take time and space away from you. So you're playing this team where you feel like you've got no time to do anything. They're challenging every thing you do on the ice, and then you've got a goalie who's coming out of his net and attacking you that way. It's like. It just feels like everything is in fast forward for the other team. And I think Bussy takes advantage of that. I think if you put him and he played that style behind a bad team, you might look silly real quick. But behind a team like that, it is almost the perfect style to play. It's. It's super interesting fit.

Frankie Corrado (14:00)

It's fascinating because, you know, we, we, we, the three of us, lament a lot how mechanical goaltending has become and how there's no Dominic Hoschek out there flailing and flopping around. So these shooters, they know where to shoot because it doesn't matter what goalies in there, the same spots work. That reverse vh, you're going to be able to bank it off the back of his head if you can pick that corner with Bussy because he is so aggressive. We've seen this with like a handful of guys over the years, like an Alex Stalock who just played like, like just lunatic hockey out there. They're harder to shoot on because the things that have worked for you, the things that you practice don't translate to the game. So if you can do that, it's risky style of hockey. I'm no goaltending expert, but that looks like risky goaltending to me. But it is absolutely throwing off shooters, which makes it a fascinating contradiction to almost every other goalie in the league.

Mark Lazarus (14:43)

Yeah, it'll be interesting if, like, that's one of those things that. If it works all regular season, okay, well, does it work in the playoffs when you're playing that goalie seven times and now you're game planning for it? Like, that will be a fascinating thing to see. But bus he is. He also, like, he's an undrafted guy who came out of nowhere. He wasn't anywhere near the like, when he was 18. He, like, there's no way anyone even consider. Would. Would consider drafting him. And he said that. I was like, why do you think he didn't get drafted? He's like, well, because I wasn't ready. Like, they would have been crazy to draft me. He. He didn't have much of a junior career, but now that he's 27, you look at him and like he has the physical attributes too. He's 6 4, but he doesn't. He's not like a stiff big 64 guy who's just trying to block the puck. He's very fluid in his movement. He's athletic. He, he can even if. Even because he plays so far out, he can do the splits and get across there for a big guy. So, yeah, he's been fun to watch. It's like I said, I think it's a perfect marriage of a style of goalie and a team that has really needed a goalie for a while now.

Max Boltman (15:41)

The interesting thing to me is with his workload, I mean, the most games he's played in a season since he was at the USHL was in 20, 23, 24. He had 41 regular season games, four playoff games. He already leads the Hurricanes and starts. Jesse, even if he only splits half, you know, 50, 50 down the stretch, he's going to get close to 36, 37 games in the regular season. And then you talked about wanting to ride a guy for the playoffs. Like, how do you see him holding up as that number starts to creep up? It could get to 50 if they have the kind of playoff run in certainly beyond 50 if they have the playoff run they want to have.

Mark Lazarus (16:13)

Yeah, that's. It's tough to answer. We don't know how his body will hold up. I do think that that's part of why it's important that Freddie Anderson gets a look back into form. Like, I don't know if we'll ever see the Freddy Andersen of old because he's getting up there in age, but he. This has definitely been his worst season in a long time. We haven't seen him play this poorly in a while. If he can get back up to to a good level. I think that will allow Carolina to not lean on Bussey quite as much because lately it's felt like they almost have to start busy most nights in order to have a chance because things just haven't gone well for Freddie. Freddy's a great goalie, I think. I think even at his age I think he can. He does have that extra level to get to and I think they're going to need him to so that they don't ride Bussy into the dirt.

Frankie Corrado (16:56)

How many years we've been talking about Carolina needs a finisher and they need a goalie. They went and they got the finisher with Gensel. It didn't work out. They tried to get renting and it didn't work out. Maybe they finally got a goalie at least. I don't know. You want to see it happen for Carolina but it seems like we've had the same question marks going into the playoffs year after year after year.

Mark Lazarus (17:12)

But that team looks so good. I watched the Florida game and Bobrovsky was amazing for the first half. They ended up beating him 9 to 1, the Panthers. But it's like it felt like a 9 to 1 game. It wasn't like all the shots just went in. I think the like Carolina had like 80 something shot attempts. The shots on goal were like 35 to 16 or something. Like this team is dominant. I think this is the best they've looked it like I can't remember watching Carolina and thinking they were this dominant. They, they were good and it's like we can't get the puck from them. But they don't. They're just flinging stuff from the point like they aren't creating grade A chances. To me this year this is the best their offense has looked.

Max Boltman (17:49)

Brandon Busy. Not in the Vezina conversation at this point but let's go through those odds that it the from our partners at BetMGM. Ilya Sorokin plus 100 5. Logan Thompson plus 2 20. Scott Wedgwood is a big drop off from 2 to 3. Scott Wedgewood plus 700. Andre Vasilevsky plus 700 50. Jeremy Swayman another big drop off. The plus 2500. Sorokin does feel Jesse, like he's got a ton of momentum right now. He's got the name value, surprise team that he's really been the driving force of. Kind of feels like his to lose with 30 games left.

Mark Lazarus (18:21)

Yeah, he's been the best goalie in the world this season. Like if you look at the numbers, there's no question. I think he's kind of built a pretty good gap between himself and the other goalies in terms of, like, who's going to be the best statistically. And it's so interesting because the Islanders fired their goalie coach two weeks into the season. Like, he was struggling. David Riddick was struggling. They fired the goalie coach and they. Now part of it was they, they wanted to provide promote the AHL goalie coach who had worked with Sorokin since he was in Russia. So, like, there was a familiarity there. They wanted to bring him up. But the fact that it's turned around this dramatically, not only with Sorokin, but Riddick, has been awesome. The Islanders goalie numbers, just as a team, are far and away the best in the league. If I was looking at these other guys, I think Logan Thompson, I mentioned it maybe last show or a couple of shows ago. I think this could be the Logan Thompson year. I think the Capitals. The thing with Sorokin is the Islanders. He's carrying them like you said. So if he has a bad month, his stats can like, take a downturn real quick when you're carrying a team. Like, if you stop carrying them, things can go bad. Whereas I think Logan Thompson is maybe a little safer in that he's got a better team in front of him. And I think we've seen it for two years now. Basically, he's been one of the best goalies in the league statistically. So I think Logan Thompson still has a chance to catch him.

Frankie Corrado (19:37)

The GMs vote on the Vezna, not the writers, always feel compelled to point that out because GMs love things like wins and things like that. But do you think it could turn into one of those kind of MVP debates that we have a lot where if the Islanders make the playoffs, Sorokin wins it. If the Capitals make the playoffs and Islanders don't, then Thompson wins.

Vince McGaliano (19:52)

It could.

Mark Lazarus (19:53)

It could be, yeah, I think that, that if a team misses the playoffs, that goal is probably not going to win the Vesna unless his like, save percentage and goal saves above expected are just in another universe from everyone else, which Sorokin kind of has done that at this point to his credit. I also think Vasilevsky, like, he's. He's all the way down there at plus 750. I think Vassi has a chance. He's playing great hockey. Tampa Bay looks good. They're. They're probably going to be right there atop the. The east one. One of the top two seeds in the east or so is what it looks like. And if he, if he continues this, I think Vassi will probably have a chance to be in that conversation also. But like Wedgwood right now, Jesse, right.

Frankie Corrado (20:29)

Now, I want you to know that if this were in public, I'd be trying to smack you right now for saying, bassey, I just want you.

Mark Lazarus (20:33)

I know, I know. I, I talked to too many goalies with their nicknames, and then I come on here and it's hard to not wet. The thing that's interesting to me is Wedgwood at plus 700. I don't see how you could bet that because you have to imagine Blackwood like he's coming back from the injury and I know he's been banged up twice this year, but he's going to end up getting probably the majority of the starts down the stretch. So to like, Wedgwood's been awesome. His numbers are good. The Avalanche aren't going to stop winning. So like that, like, I see that, but I just don't see him playing enough down the stretch to get, get up there with those other guys in wins. And like you said, the GMs like that stat.

Frankie Corrado (21:09)

Yeah.

Max Boltman (21:09)

All right, let's take a quick break right there. I'll be right back with Vince mcagliano to talk about the extremely interesting New York Rangers.

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Max Boltman (24:09)

All right, we're back. And before we get to Vince mcagliano, you listen to us. We want to hear from you. We're asking you to fill out a quick survey about you and your podcast habits by going to theathletic.com survey26. Three lucky entries are going to win a $100Amazon gift card. So whether you're a longtime listener or a new one, we want your feedback. Again, go to theathletic.com survey26 theathletic.com survey 26 Links Also in our episode description. Thank you. All right, let's welcome in now Vince mcagliano, who is in the the center of the hockey universe right now in New York. A lot of intrigue going on there, starting with the letter 2.0. It's been a while since they've done one of these, sort of seven years or so. What is, what was the reaction in New York to seeing yet another letter from Rangers management to the fans?

Vince McGaliano (24:59)

I don't think the fans received it quite as well as they did last time. I mean, my impression, I wasn't covering the team in 2018. I started in 2019. But my impression at the time was that fans were. Were on board. They had had a good run with that core, you know, with Lundqvist in the middle of it, and they kind of accepted like, okay, this is the right way to do things. Were okay with taking a step back for a couple years. They were really excited about the pipeline at the time. A lot of the young players at the Rangers either had drafted or acquired or would in the next couple years, and especially with some top 10 picks, a couple top two picks that they had in 19 and 20, fans seemed really juiced up about it, and I think that they. They gave management some latitude. They gave them some patience to execute it and pull it off this time. There's a lot more unrest, at least that I'm sensing from the fan base. I mean, you've got Madison Square Garden, which increasingly is restless recently. The Rangers have won only five times in 22 tries on home ice this year. The building, to me, I'm noticing more empty seats recently. The people that are there are booing. Some are even chanting, fire Jury. And the response to this letter that came out on Friday was, there's a lot of skepticism. I think people feel like the roster and the pipeline is not in a good state right now. There's not a whole lot coming to feel good about when you're thinking about the future. The core of this team is largely guys that are in their 30s and moving into territory where you can safely say they're past their primes. And so I think this feels like a. A bigger task for the Rangers in some ways. And with the letter coming as you touched on less than eight years later, I think that they're skeptical a about Chris Jury's ability to pull it off, because you can look objectively at what he's done with this roster in nearly five years now since he took it over. They're certainly in a worse place than when he got it. And then you look at what's coming in the pipeline and you. You look at the young talent, a lot of which hasn't panned out the way that they were hoping for. It's like, okay, well, what do we really have to look forward to and why should we buy in on this one? Is more of what I'm sensing from the fans early on.

Frankie Corrado (26:58)

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think it's. They don't Trust Chris Jury to do this right, because they, they've already run out of patience with him. And now the thing about a rebuild or a retool, whatever you want to call it, is it buys the GM like three, four years right as now we have. Now we have a long term plan and you won't know if we're doing a good job until three or four or five years from now. And they don't want Chris Jury to have this job for three to four or five more years. Look, any Rangers fan right now who doesn't think some kind of tear down is, is the right option is diluting themselves. They've lost what, eight out of nine? And look, look at, look around the Eastern Conference right now. Tampa's 111 straight. Buffalo just won 13 of 14, Boston's one eight of nine. Toronto I think has one regulation loss in its last 13 games. Pittsburgh recently won six in a row. Montreal's got a point in 12, 16, Carolina six, one one in his last eight, Detroit's one six and seven. Washington's rock solid. The Islanders look like a playoff team. The Panthers are still lurking. What are you, if you're the Rangers, you have no hope, no hope whatsoever. They're old, they're slow, and they're just in no man's land right now. And you have to do something. The question is, can it really be done in two to three years, the quote unquote retool? Because it's nine times out of 10 that fails. And I don't see how the Rangers get out of this quickly.

Vince McGaliano (28:08)

Yeah, no, lads, I think you're right. I think, listen, I think the fans absolutely recognize that this needed to be done. As you touched on, I think they're just feeling like, hey, do we have the right people in place to make all the proper moves that need to be made? And I think that's where the skepticism comes from. I had a couple people put it to the, to me this way just in talking about the timing of this and how it went down. It does feel in some ways like a bit of a self preservation move on Jury's part. This should buy him time. Now, the reality here is that what I had been hearing for months and then James Dolan went on local radio here in New York a couple weeks ago and reiterated this publicly. He very rarely speaks publicly. I think it had been three years since the last time I've requested him. I'm sure many others have. And he's not going to go on the record with us. Us at least not anytime soon from my understanding. But when he went on the radio, he backed Chris Jury. And what I've been hearing for, well before that is Jury still has the keys to the car here and, and Dolan is kind of letting him run with it. And Dolan still thinks highly of him. If you listen to that interview, Dolan pointed blame at Peter Laviolette. He certainly pointed blame at the players. I've heard that for a while. I mean, the Rangers, I think the framing internally for everything that went wrong last year is that the players basically not gave up, but there was a bit of a mutiny. The players kind of turned against management. The players weren't all in. The players let that season slip apart. You saw the carnage that happened afterwards. I think he made 10 trades in an eight month period. A lot of long time Rangers. A lot of guys that were core players for teams that had success here, Truba Kreider, you guys know a lot of the names. They were shipped out of town in somewhat of a forceful manner and that didn't sit well with the locker room. That caused a lot of unrest behind the scenes. All of these things I think lead to why the Rangers fans are distrustful right now. And it also makes you think like, okay, so why should we have faith that they're going to be able to, to do the right things here and, and turn this around in the right direction. They understand all the things that you said about the flaws with the current roster. It's just a matter of, okay, well how are they going to be able to pull this off and why should we have faith in the guy that's running it right now?

Max Boltman (30:17)

Well, and I think when you talk about like a mutiny, really, you look at how much success guys like Truba and Kreider have had since leaving and I think that would make me a little nervous if I were a Rangers fan, that, yeah, you can tear this down. What happens if it's not the players at all and the players get to their new surroundings and it turns out that, oh, they're actually, they look like they still have game in them. And that's something that would really make me nervous.

Vince McGaliano (30:41)

Yeah, I, I will say I think Kreider has tailed off a bit. He got off to a hot start. You know, there were, there were arguments in each of those cases that the Rangers might be better off moving on, especially to free up cap space. Like they, they made the Kreider trade last year. They used that money to sign Gavrikov, who's actually been one of their better players this season and. And they had clear holes on the blue line that needed to be addressed. So in some ways you could say, okay, maybe it was time these guys were. Their games weren't quite what they used to be. They're getting a little bit older. But the problem is for the most part, if you look at all those trades last year that the Rangers made, they got rid of core guys, flawed as they were, but they didn't really replace them with a whole lot. Like they didn't bring back much in those trades. A lot of them just basically amounted to cap dumps. True Betrayed for sure. Barclay go dro. You just put them on waivers. You know, they get Will Borgen back in the capo Kako deal, but he's probably best served in a bottom pair role. They're basically asking him to be their number three right now. That's been an issue. So they didn't get a whole lot back. So what you have is a roster that's been gutted of core players. To me, in my opinion, in seven seasons covering this team, this is the least skilled team that I've seen. Their core guys up front, Zabanajad, Trocheck, Panarin, who we know is on his way out the door now, these guys aren't as productive as they once were. They're not, not in the position where, you know they're going to go head to head with the best top sixes in the league. They're going to lose that battle nine times out of 10. And the bottom six is Baron. It's basically an AHL bottom six that they've been icing for a lot of the season. So the offensive firepower or lack thereof has been a glaring, glaring issue. They, they. Oh, in my opinion, they overcorrected in the grit direction. Like when Jury first took over, his big thing was we got to get harder to play against. Jeff Gordon in the previous regime had made a lot of draft picks and acquired a lot of players that were high skill guys or at least perceived to be at the time. And ownership felt like we're not tough enough. Even though I think if you pull back the layers and I'm gonna. I'm actually doing a story kind of looking on how they got here. I'm going all the way Back to the 2018 letter to now and all the missteps along the way that led to needing to send the second letter out. So that, that's a story that I'm hoping to have done at some point this week. I've been making A lot of calls on that, but. But I think Gordon knew that they needed to get tougher to some degree. And you look at his last draft in 2020, Braden Schneider, will Cooley, Matt Rempe. There were guys that they picked that were clearly aimed at bringing that grit, sandpaper, whatever you want to call it, element to this lineup. But Jury, I think is way overcorrected there. And now you've gotten rid of all of these young skill players. Heidel, Cocko, Kreider, obviously older, but he's a guy that poured in a lot of goals for them over the years. And what have they replaced them with? With? They replace them with like Connor Sherry and Taylor Radish, who. Okay. On some teams in a fourth line role, one of those guys is okay. But when your bottom six is littered with them, that's a big issue. And their blue line outside of Adam Fox has pretty much no one that you would grade as an above average puck mover or a guy who's going to contribute any offense. So I think they way overcorrected in the grit direction and now we're seeing the results of that.

Frankie Corrado (33:43)

I'm telling you, this is like talking to the ghost of Christmas past for me, because, I don't know, six, six or seven years ago, I went through all this with Chicago, right? And I wrote that. That same story you're working on. I did the how did Stan Bowman get to this point? And these are all the bad trades he made and the wrong decisions he made. And I've seen how this works. The difference is that Chicago team had three Stanley Cups under its belt and the Rangers haven't won anything. So I. We keep hearing retool. And that's what all the GMs want to say. They never want to say rebuild. They want to say retool. John McDonough went the black was called it a re win, which was the dumbest thing I think I've ever heard, a re win. But I understand the rush. Look, it's New York. Mike Sullivan is not a rebuilding coach. He's a win. Now, Coach Jess Durkin's 30 years old. J.T. miller, Mikas Abanijad, Vincent Trochuk, whoever stays there in their early to mid-30s, your defense, even, I mean, Fox is 27. Borgin and Gravikov are both around 30, and they have no good young players. Like you said, there's nothing coming. So are you going to be able to retool around Alexis Lafrenier and Will Cooley and Brennan Hoffman or Gabe Perot or these guys, you have to move in order to get guys back because they're the only ones that have any trade value. I mean, when the Bruins. The Bruins are the one team that really did a retool and did it well. They came back and they returned to a Stanley Cup Final. But they had Charlie McAvoy at age 20 and David Posternak at age 19 to build around and they still had Bergeron in the mix and things like that. I don't see how the who are, who are the Rangers retooling around. What's the core right now and is it a bunch of 30 something things?

Vince McGaliano (35:07)

Yeah, well, so a few things on that pop into my mind. For starters, I think they do look at it to some degree. They still have Adam Fox, who's 27, he'll be 28 next month. He's still an elite defenseman in the league. Before he got hurt this year, he, I think he was going to be on the top five of most Norris ballots. He was having a really good season. And they still have Igor Shusturkin who just turned 30, but they have him locked up long term and he's been their backbone. Honestly.

Frankie Corrado (35:31)

He's the one goalies age better than skaters for sure and, and he's the.

Vince McGaliano (35:34)

One that, you know, he gives them a fighting chance pretty much any year. Like, he's masked a lot of their flaws in the past. This, even when they were winning a President's trophy, was not a great five on five team. They just had elite goaltending, they had elite special teams and they had some weird magic stuff that was going on that season where they had all those comeback wins. But five on five, this is a flawed team and I think deep down at least some people within the organization recognize that. And that's why you saw them start to try to shift last year. They just, as I mentioned before, gave up a lot of guys and didn't get, get a whole lot back. But I, I think that they are probably looking at it like we have Fox, we have Shusturkin. I don't think J.T. miller is going anywhere. Although that trade is, is not looking great so far. I don't know how well that deal is going to age. He's got four more years after this. He looks a step slow as far as, you know, being a guy that can put up 100 plus points. That was four seasons ago. It looks like it was eons ago. He's on pace for like 50 points this season and I know he's been playing through some injuries, but I also don't think that he's a high level play driver anymore. I don't think he's the kind of guy that's going to have his the puck on his stick a lot and make a lot of plays for you. He'll do some of the grunt work, he'll be a bulldog, he'll get to the net, he'll do all those things. And I think certainly in a healthy season you can expect more than 50 points out of him, but I think he's going to be closer to 50 than he is to 100 moving forward. So. Yeah, I agree with you. There's, there's a lot of reasons to be skeptical. I, I do wonder though, how much of this is is framing and optics, which I believe is important to ownership. And calling it a retool instead of a rebuild was a that they want to send. Even though deep down I'm not sure how convinced they are that they can turn this around super quickly. The one thing that a few people have mentioned to me is they're going to try to load up on assets right now. We know they're going to trade Panarin. I think they're listening on just about everybody. They've got guys with no movement clauses who my understanding early on, you shouldn't expect to see any hit thing happen with them, at least not at this trade deadline when we're talking about like Mika Zabanajad. I don't think Adam Fox is going anywhere certainly, or Miller or Gavrikov or Shosturkin. But I do wonder. You know, you mentioned Schneider. That's a guy that it sounds to me like teams are already starting to sniff around on. He hasn't developed the way the Rangers would hope. Like he's not a shutdown guy, but he's a big, strong physical right shot D and a lot of general managers value that. So I think they could probably still get something of value for him. And the really big chip that they have is Trocheck. I think if the Rangers open things up on Trocheck, he's got a 12 team, no trade list. But there's a lot of teams I think that are sniffing around on him right now if they open that up. Look at what the Islanders got for Brock Nelson last year and he was a rental. Trocheck has three more years on his contract at $5.6 million for a second line center. That's a bargain with the rising cap right now. So Trocheck, we saw Bill Garon just selected him for the US Olympic team. He's the type of heart and soul guy who kills penalties, win the face off, can chip in some offense that I think general managers will really value, and I think the Rangers could probably get a pretty sizable haul back for him. If you want to kick start this prospect of restocking the cupboards, so to speak, I think you have to consider trading a guy like that. And I think they're certainly listening, at the very least right now on him. So those are some of the main pieces. And then I think they feel like, okay, if we can load up on some picks, get some younger players, maybe we'll be in a position where we can start flipping some of those picks to. They want to try to bring back young guys, you know, a situation that a few people have pointed to, or a couple actually are. Washington, you look what they did. They sold for two straight trade deadlines, but then they made a lot of trades for Chickren and a lot of other guys to sort of jump start their process of getting back into contention. And Montreal is another example as well. I actually had Arpin on my podcast last week, and we went through the whole Montreal rebuild process, and they turned things around pretty quickly. But what he pointed out to me, which goes to your point, Laz, is they had Caulfield and Suzuki and some other good young players already in the system when they started their rebuild or retool or whatever we want to call it, the Rangers don't have those guys coming right now. So that. That is a very clear concern. But I think they're thinking, okay, if we can load up on assets and then flip them in trades for younger players that we find appealing. Now, who is that going to be? I don't know. I can't sit here and tell you, you know, whether a Jason Robertson or a Brady Tkachuk or anybody like that comes free in the next couple years, we'll have to wait and see. But I think their mindset is, okay, let's rebuild our prospect pool a bit, let's collect some assets, and then when opportunities arise, we'll have the pieces to strike in some of these trades. Because, like, they were in on the Quinn Hughes trade and they just didn't have the ammunition to get it done. I think they realized that they need more ammunition and they're trying to load up on that right now.

Frankie Corrado (40:09)

So. So Panarin, this is going to be a Patrick Kane, Claud Giroux situation, Brad Marchand, where he has total control over this, and they're not going to get market value for their best trade chip. That's a bummer for the Rangers. I get it. But is that kind of should we be looking at that Brock Nelson trade is kind of the model? Would they rather get young players or distant futures like picks that they can flip again later? What do you think is the preference right now for Christian?

Vince McGaliano (40:30)

Definitely young players, but I think they'll take. Listen, they're not going to say no to first round picks. They'll. They'll take that. They actually already have two in the upcoming draft. They got one in the Keandre Miller deal last summer. So I think in some of these situations they're going to have to settle for picks. And like I said, if they load up on a lot of them, I would not be surprised at all if they flip them relatively quickly to try to acquire players that are closer to impacting their NHL roster. But everything I've heard initially is that their preference is good young players. Like I think that they would like to get guys that are, if not ready to jump into the NHL lineup right now, pretty close to it and that will be what they target. The question is can they get it? You know, Panarin, like you said, I could see them getting something similar to what Boston got from Marshan last year when they got the conditional pick that turned into a first rounder. I certainly think the baseline that they're asking for with Panarin is going to be a first round pick and they're going to try to even get more than that. But it's a matter of how many teams is he willing to go to. Peter Baugh and I actually just had a story come out this morning that looks at a lot of the different situations around the league and it's a mix of sort of what we're hearing about where Panarin might entertain going versus which teams might want him slash have the assets to get him. It's not, it's not a huge list of teams that you really feel like should or will be in it, but that's going to be a really big thing. Here is how many teams is Pan Aaron willing to go to? Because that will dictate how much negotiating power the Rangers have or how many teams they have to work with with.

Max Boltman (41:55)

The thing I've been thinking of as you've been talking here is that last letter, the last rebuild ended up being more of a retool because you signed Panarin and you get the two first overall picks and kind of you're off and running what reason do you think there is to think that this or in what ways do you think this time will be different or needs to be different from the Rangers than the way they approached it last time? Because from the outside it seemed like, wow, they got a lot to kind of go their way when they did this in 2018. And they were, it was able to happen pretty quick. They got back to a conference final, but they also kind of left some of those key younger assets either underdeveloped or ended up getting out the door before they could really impact the Rangers.

Vince McGaliano (42:32)

The. The number one thing for me, like when I'm doing this, look back on what went wrong, there's really two things that jump out to me. Number one was the reactionary firing of Jeff Gordon and John Davidson in 2021. Like, I think that set this thing down a bad path. But. But even bigger than that. And actually, Max, I read the story that you wrote with Arpin where you guys looked at the Wings and the Canadiens and what they did to turn their clubs around. And you guys noted at the very top of your story, it starts with hitting on your draft picks. And that's an area where the Rangers did not do well enough the last time with the letter. They did load up on picks. I wrote this last week from 17 to 21. So a span of five drafts, I think they had 42 total picks, including nine first rounders. And you could maybe look at it and say they went.09 on those first round picks. Like they still have La Forniere, they still have Schneider, they still have Offman. So of those nine first round picks, only three of them are still in the organization and none of them have hit the ceilings that they hoped for when they made those selections. So if you can't build a foundation through the draft, especially when you get picks that high, I mean, the Rangers had huge whiffs. In 17, they took Leah Anderson, number seven overall, not even in the league anymore. In 18, they took Vitaly Kratz off at number nine overall, not even in the league anymore. So you had huge whiffs. Then you get those top two picks in LA Frontier and Coco, who in some ways were useful NHL players. And when the Rangers went on their playoff runs, those guys in third line roles were pretty effective for them, but never came close to living up to the hype if you don't do a better job of it. Also is kind of a chicken or an egg thing, right? Did they. Did they make the wrong picks or did they do a bad job of Developing them. I think it has to be a combination of both. They have to do a thorough look at all of these things because their development track record is poor. It is not good. If you look at their draft picks and who's actually turned into useful players for them, there's a handful of guys you could point to like a Will Cooley who, okay, that, that ended up working out pretty well for them. But you can't miss on that many first round picks and expect to have a sustainable winner. And that is I think priority number one. They have to do a better job of drafting and developing this time around or they're going to be in the same boat, you know, in a pretty short time period.

Frankie Corrado (44:47)

Again, it really shows just how fine a line it is to walk when you're really doing these tear down guts that everybody wants their team to do to start from scratch and build up through the draft. If you come, if you get that number one pick in the wrong year, I mean everyone fought Alexis of Frenier. You, you google the words LA frontier in generational and it comes up a lot talked about as being the number one. If you don't, if you don't hit on those, you've just ruined everything. Right. You have to do what like Blackhawks in Detroit have done, which is getting multiple first round picks. You have to have the assets to do that. And I just don't think the Rangers have the assets to build up 11 first round picks in four years to really jump start this.

Max Boltman (45:20)

I do, I do think they have the assets to do that. They already got two this year. I mean it's a good thing that they didn't keep that pick, the first rounder last year. They had the option to give that to Pittsburgh. Absolutely. And it was a good thing to give it to Pittsburgh because they're in a way more important spot now with that.

Frankie Corrado (45:33)

Who else is giving you first round picks? Carson, Susie, Connor, Sherry, Jonathan. Quick, where are you getting all these first round picks?

Vince McGaliano (45:39)

Panarin and Trocheck would be the two guys that you would think you should.

Frankie Corrado (45:43)

You're going to get a condition. You are getting a conditional second round pick for Artemi Panera.

Vince McGaliano (45:47)

You might be right.

Frankie Corrado (45:48)

Seen this too many times. You are not getting a great package for Artemis, he, Panera, I mean, but.

Vince McGaliano (45:52)

Look at what, you know, look at what the Flyers got for Jrue in 22. That, that ended up being a real. If the Rangers could get a package like that for Panarin, they would be thrilled. I don't know if they can, but I think that would be a like that's a comparison that Peter and I have made in multiple stories now is they're going to point to that drew package in 22. I think it was a first round pick plus some other parts that they ended up getting. Even though he had the no movement clause and he was clearly trying to steer his way to Florida. So what do you think?

Frankie Corrado (46:16)

That, what do you, what do you think? Panarin's reputation is league wide because he for a long time in his career had this knock that he wasn't a playoff guy, that he wasn't the guy who performed well. He has put up points in the playoffs, he's had pretty good playoff runs. But he's never been like a McDavid or a dry cytle type where he takes over a series at his age and his track record, I'm curious. Like I saw Artemi Panari at his best. He is a world one of the most talented players I've ever seen play hockey. But what do you think his value is league wide to teams outside of New York right now?

Vince McGaliano (46:44)

My impression is it varies team to team. I think there are some general managers that look at him like this is, this is a smaller, skilled perimeter guy. He doesn't get to the inside. He's not a playoff player. I will say he has been way more dynamic, at least to my eyes, in the regular season. In the playoffs he does shrink a bit. His numbers are okay, but there have been long lapses in both of the long playoff runs in 22 and 24 where he just wasn't nearly effective enough. I think had he been able to drive play a little bit more the way that we see in the regular season, maybe those teams would have went a little further. I mean, there's reasons I could probably say that they wouldn't have anyway. But I, I do think that he does not have the type of game that plays up in the playoffs. I think he, he is more of a regular season player. Incredible to watch, incredibly creative offensively. Most of those skills are still there. Like I don't know if he's putting up 120 points again like he did a couple seasons ago. But he could be an 100 point guy in the right situation. Absolutely. Even though he's, he's 34 now. But I, my sense is certain general managers look at it and say this isn't a playoff player. This isn't the guy who's going to play the style that we want in the postseason and therefore we're not going to give up a lot for him. But I think there are also some teams and we touched on a few of them in our story. Like Colorado is a team that I think we already know that they were in hard on him.

Frankie Corrado (48:02)

He doesn't need to be the man in Colorado. He'd be their third or fourth best player. So.

Vince McGaliano (48:06)

Yeah, so that's an interesting one to me. I think that they're going to sniff around. It sounds like Washington, their GM already came out and said we want a high skill winger.

Frankie Corrado (48:14)

That's the one I love. I love Washington as a fish room. I think that's the absolute best spot for him.

Max Boltman (48:18)

It's for the Rangers too because Washington has a real chance to miss the playoffs and that pick could end up being like a top 15 pick. Our Tommy Panarin is still on a 92 point pace by the way this year. Last like even really good. I get it like ahead of where Kane was. That's ahead of where Kane was at the time, 100%.

Frankie Corrado (48:34)

But his, his reputation, league wise Patrick Kane was a playoff performer, like the ultimate playoff performer despite being a small perimeter player. And Artemi Panarin and it's something, I almost had to fight people on that not you know, fight them off with this argument that he can't play in the playoffs. I don't buy that he can't play in the playoffs, but I do like you said Vince, he's a perimeter guy and he's not that tough when it comes to the hard areas. And GMs know this about him. He is a known commodity. He's been in the league for a decade now. And I, I just wonder if like honestly like you mentioned Vincent Trojek, there are GMs out there that would much, that would value Vincent Trocheck much higher than they would value contract, contract be damned, just as a player more than Artemi Panari.

Max Boltman (49:13)

But I think this is on the money. I think it's that conditional. Right? It's, it's a, you know, if, if this then, then it becomes a first. And that condition I think can be a little lower than like win the Stanley Cup.

Vince McGaliano (49:22)

Yeah, but I listen I, I've actually we've checked in around and we've heard from, from some people that, that know a bit about the line of thinking for certain teams who have said they'd rather have Trocheck than Panar. And I think there's a lot of GMs that fall in that bucket. Which is why I think the more conversations the Rangers have, the more they're going to look at this and say if we really are going to kick start this process, Trocheck is probably the main piece that we need to try to maximize right now. Panarin, they're going to get what they can from whichever team he tells them that he's willing to go to again. Colorado, Washington, those are kind of the top two teams on Peter and I's list right now, but there's a lot of others like. But Carolina I'm fairly certain is going to sniff around on him. I believe that he would love to go to Florida. That's the impression that I've gotten early on. I just don't know if it makes sense for Florida right now. Cap wise.

Frankie Corrado (50:06)

Dallas, I think Dallas is a real.

Vince McGaliano (50:07)

Especially especially since they missed out on Rasmus Anderson. Yeah.

Frankie Corrado (50:11)

With Tyler Sagan being hurt like that. Imagine that. Top six. If you put Robertson ranting in hints, Wyatt Johnson, then you throw our Debbie Panarin in there. Come on.

Vince McGaliano (50:19)

A lot of these teams don't have first round picks this year though. So that's, that's kind of an interesting element. Is like okay, didn't do the Rangers try to force it to be a young player or a prospect if you don't have the first round pick to offer up that. That's a lingering question. Washington though, does Washington checks the boxes of they have the first round pick, I believe and they've got one of the, you know, a pretty solid prospect pool. Whereas a lot of these teams that we're talking about, you know, I was reading Corey Promman's list from last week and there's not a whole lot of guys on that under 23, you know, in that list for a lot of the other teams that we're talking about. So their negotiating power is somewhat limited. But you know, maybe Panarin gives him three or four teams or maybe he only gives them one. I, that's what we don't know. We tried to kind of ask him some of this stuff the other day and he deflected a bit. So I, I don't know where his head is at as far as how many places he's willing to go, but there are at least a handful of teams I think that that will have some level of interest.

Frankie Corrado (51:11)

Yeah.

Max Boltman (51:11)

If he gives him one with the no move clause, it does, it does change things. I think that's Laz, that's what you're getting at. The one thing I'll say is that in this market in general, it's not a buyer's market right now, there are not too many clear sellers. That's going to help the Rangers because immediately when this letter gets sent out, I would have loved to see C.J. kind of mentally calculating. Okay, how many Rangers are now in the top 50 trade board.

Vince McGaliano (51:32)

We were texting a lot that day, C.J. so I believe the wheels are turned.

Frankie Corrado (51:37)

And that's the other thing is Panarin is the only actual star available now. Like Rasmus, Anderson is a good player. He's not a star and he's already off the board. I mean, it's Panarin and then it's a whole bunch of role guys. So, I mean, he does have a certain appeal in that respect.

Vince McGaliano (51:49)

Absolutely. Yeah.

Max Boltman (51:51)

Lots to follow with the New York Rangers in the days and weeks to come. Vince, thanks so much for joining us, man. Great stuff this week.

Vince McGaliano (51:56)

Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Fun, fun conversation.

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Max Boltman (53:42)

All right, we're back. And lads, when you leave Here you are going to head down for another interesting Chicago homecoming tonight. Jonathan Taves making his return with the Winnipeg Jets. And we talked about this a little bit with Joel Quenville, and I think it's even a little more personal with Jonathan and tape. Someone who was extremely central, the captain of those dynastic, even though I know you hate that word, Blackhawks teams. What is this going to be like today?

Frankie Corrado (54:06)

Oh, my God, dude. On Saturday night, they had their. They're doing their centennial celebration and they had their. All the guys from the three cup teams come and the word dynasty got thrown on like 150 times. I was just. I was dying alive in that press box, man. You do not win a dynasty when you will win three cups in six years. It's three and three, but beside that, yeah, no, Jonathan Tay is coming back to Chicago. It's kind of wild. It's. It's weird because when. When Patrick Kane came back a few years ago, it really set the bar incredibly high.

Max Boltman (54:31)

Yeah.

Frankie Corrado (54:31)

Crowd went absolutely ballistic all game. And then he goes out and scores the overtime winner. And Blackhawks fans are cheering a Red Wings win on home ice because it was Patrick Kane who scored it. It was just a surreal, incredible environment. And I feel like it's going to be similar tonight with Taves. I mean, he's just absolutely beloved in Chicago for so many reasons. But it's kind of strange because the Hawks fans have already had this cathartic moment.

Vince McGaliano (54:55)

He.

Frankie Corrado (54:56)

They announced like, I think was like the morning of his last game three years ago, Kyle Davidson comes up to the press lounge and says, hey, by the way, we're not resigning Jonathan Toews. This is going to be his last game with the Hawks. And so the whole game became about Jonathan Toews. He scored a goal. He was just being cheered left and right. They made him stay on the ice and do laps around the rink. It was this really nice, beautiful moment between Taves and the fans that. That he basically helped create. So now he's coming back, like two and a half years later, whatever it is. And I'm sure it's still going to be a really big deal, but it doesn't feel like it has the. The lead up that the Kane one had because Kane just disappeared into thin air on a road trip in San Jose when he got traded to the Rangers, Taves got a proper send off. So I'm curious to see how different this feels. I'm sure they'll still do videos they've been promoting it in. Like you're trying to Sell tickets and stuff like that, that it's a way to get a sellout on a Monday night. So the Hawks are thrilled, but it'll be weird because Hawks fans have already kind of had this moment with Jonathan Tate.

Max Boltman (55:52)

I vividly remember that game. Didn't he have, like a breakaway? I don't know if it was overtime or very late in the game. I think he had, like, a chance to win it.

Frankie Corrado (55:58)

Yes.

Max Boltman (55:58)

That would have been perfect kind of thing.

Vince McGaliano (56:00)

Yes.

Frankie Corrado (56:00)

He almost got the Kane moment that Kane had a little bit later. And hey, Jonathan Taze, he's playing really well right now. He's been scoring goals and bunches. He's up on the power play now. He's second in the league in face offs. That skill never goes away. Second, 65%, something crazy like that. It's really good to see because he was struggling. It was hard those first few months, which is not unexpected given how much time he'd missed in his age and everything. He was really struggling. But honestly, I thought this would be the time of year where he'd fall off a cliff where his body would say, I can't do this anymore. Right. So it's really encouraging to see that, you know, in the dog days of the season, he's starting to feel more like himself and play like. You listen to him talk. He's starting to believe this is the kind of player I can still be. So you imagine if the jets, who are hot right now and do have Connor Hellebuck, and the west is very top heavy if they can sneak their way into the playoffs, how great would it be to see Jonathan Toews, one of the most clutch performers we've ever seen, in a playoff position, playing close to the top of what his game could be right now?

Max Boltman (56:55)

Well, it's interesting because as you were talking, I was getting ready to roll my eyes and be like, Lazarus, still like the second worst record in the league, but they. In the west, they're only seven points out of the second wild card.

Frankie Corrado (57:03)

This is all I'm saying. Seven points is a lot usually. But who scares you? That's in front of them right now on that path. It's tough in the Central because there's three teams just locked in. So you. You might have to get into that four spot because that fifth, there might not be a fifth spot. So. But, you know, they're fighting with Utah and St. Louis and Chicago, San Jose. San Jose, yeah. I mean, there's. These are not indomitable teams that they have to come back from, and they do have Connor Hellebuyck and they're starting to win again. If they've already hit rock bottom, it's hardly inconceivable that the team that won the President's Trophy last year could make up seven points in, in half a season.

Max Boltman (57:35)

It's going to have to be, I think, driven by Hella Buck.

Frankie Corrado (57:37)

Right.

Max Boltman (57:37)

I mean, he is there. He's the thing that they have that so few other teams in the league can match. But if you start to get, you know, that center was one of their big issues and it's probably why they went after Jonathan Taves, aside from the hometown factor is you're basically looking for kind of a miracle break to go, right? And when you can find a future hall of Famer and gamble on him finding, you know, just some semblance of what he had, that's the, that was the biggest need. And he was a kind of a perfect bet to take. Even though I, I was not, I, I kind of expected it to go a little more how it did in the first half, just being away for that long. But as you start to find it, you start to go, well, in a playoff game, this guy and, or not even in a playoff game, in a game with playoff stakes, this guy's not going to hurt you. And he may make that big play. He may be able to, you know, keep the heart rate down and, and not be rattled.

Frankie Corrado (58:23)

Yeah, we all rolled our eyes when they decided he was going to be their second line center. Yeah, crazy. He's a, he's going to be an 11 minute a night 4th line center and he was out of place for those first couple months, but now he is, he is the clear number two center. He's playing with, I think with Perfetti up there and you know, Lowry has been bumped down to the third line where he's more effective too. And you know, Taves is not the two way force he once was, but he's a really smart, savvy player. He's still got some strength to him and he still has, you know, a nose for the net. He's going to score some big goals for you.

Max Boltman (58:53)

When they were in Detroit, I just noticed like downtown or down low, he still protects the puck incredibly well and you get a defender on him, you know, you don't lose that savvy as long as you have the strength to you. So should be a very.

Frankie Corrado (59:06)

When the Hawks had a top line of Marion Hosa, Jonathan Toews and Brandon Sod at his, at his best, you just, they would Just own the puck. Like, you could not take it from any of those guys. They were also big and strong and smart. Those teams were really good, man.

Max Boltman (59:19)

Yeah. Going back to the Vince interview really quick, I was thinking as we were going, do you. Do you have a favorite destination? I think we kind of agreed on Washington for Panarin. Is there a favorite destination for any of those other Washington guy or New York guys you want to see?

Frankie Corrado (59:31)

I do like, watch. I like the fit for Washington. I think they need to make a move like that right now for like a Dallas or a Colorado. That's a luxury pick. It's like. It's like it's putting a hat on a hat. But I do think Dallas needs it more than Colorado does right now because Dallas is kind of hitting this little funk. And, you know, I know that they don't really care about the regular season in Dallas because they've been to the conference final three straight times, but I think if you put him in that top six, you know, whether he's playing with Wyatt Johnson or rope hints like that becomes so scary dynamic where you have two. Two lines that are the top line on 25 teams in the league. I think, yes, they needed a right shot defenseman probably more than they need another left winger. But if you could have Robertson and Panarin coming over the boards back to back on that left side, I mean, good freaking luck.

Max Boltman (60:14)

Yeah. How about for TRO check? Cause to me, I'm looking around here, Minnesota's a team that certainly could use a second line center. That's probably the number one that stands out.

Frankie Corrado (60:24)

Maybe Utah and Minnesota, they. They can. I mean, obviously their. Their. Their chips are in the middle of the table right now. Bill Garron's like, screw it. I'm going for it right now. And if you really want Quinn Hughes to. To want to stay, go and make a big playoff run with him. Because Minnesota, they haven't had this opportunity in so many in so long. But that fan base will go ballistic if they're able to make a deep playoff run. And it's going to want. It's going to make Quinn Hughes want to stay. And I do think that's a factor for Bill Garon right now. Everything has to revolve around making Quinn Hughes happy and getting Vincent Trocheck, I'm sure would make him happy.

Max Boltman (60:53)

Yeah, Absolutely. Yeah. There you go. Our producer, Chris, says to send Schneider to Dallas, too.

Frankie Corrado (61:00)

Schneider and. Well, that's a lot. Yeah.

Max Boltman (61:02)

I don't know that Dallas has the assets to.

Frankie Corrado (61:05)

I don't know. That's the question. Right. But they already they got or they traded stank over already. They're willing to move guys like that, but I'm not sure. There's not a whole lot left that Jim Neal has to offer for that kind of a package.

Max Boltman (61:14)

Well, it's, it's good for all of us in our line of work to have the New York Rangers to pick apart in fantasy trade everywhere over the next month. So I guess it's great having teams.

Frankie Corrado (61:22)

Like, you know, everyone hates Vegas. They're good for us. Everyone's laughing at the Rangers. They're good for us. Everyone's mad about the no state tax. No tax states. They're good for us. The hashtag content is going, my man.

Max Boltman (61:33)

It certainly is. All right, that's going to do it for us today. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. You can subscribe on YouTube@YouTube.com TheAthletic Hockey show to watch full episodes. Sean Gentili, Sean McIndewan, Frankie Corrado, back with you on Wednesday for our next episode. We'll talk to you soon.

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