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- [00:00]
Max Bolman
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- [00:29]
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- [01:00]
Podcast Narrator (Sequoia Capital)
We all remember the choices that shaped the course of our lives in business. World renowned venture capital firm Sequoia Capital calls them Crucible Moments. Their podcast brings you inside the pivotal decisions that define some of today's most influential companies. Hosted by Sequoia's Roelof Botha, Crucible Moments Season three pulls back the curtain on the untold stories behind companies like Zipline, Palo Alto Networks, supercell and hear about the make or break decisions, early stumbles and leaps of faith that turn scrappy startups into market defining forces. Once you're caught up on season three, check out some of the episodes from seasons one and two with guests like Steven Chen of YouTube, Tony Xu of DoorDash, Steve Huffman of Reddit, Brian Chetzky of Airbnb, and more. Tune in to Sequoia's new season of Crucible Moments to discover how some of the most transformational companies of the modern era were built. Crucible Moments is available everywhere you get your podcasts and@CrucibleMoments.com go listen to Crucible Moments today.
- [02:12]
Mark Lazarus
This is the athletic hockey show.
- [02:27]
Max Bolman
Hey everybody, Max Bolman here alongside Mark Lazarus for another episode of the Athletic Hockey show. We got two more days, lads, until the NHL's holiday break here. And in the Christmas spirit, I think we wanted to spend this episode doing some gift giving. We're going to hit all 32. We're going to offer up what we want to give them for Christmas. And I think we should start in hockey's capital. What do you want to give the Toronto Maple Leafs?
- [02:50]
Mark Lazarus
You know, I wanted to get on my high horse here and demand we start in the Western Conference for once, because all these kind of all 32 things always start with the East. But yeah, I got, got to start in Toronto, right? It's, it's, it's meltdown city in Toronto right now. And you know what? I want to give the Toronto Maple Leafs. I want to give them the passion. Where's the passion? Right? That's what Craig Baruby wants to give them. Ask those guys, not me. Have you ever said a I'm about to be fired line? More severe than ask those. This is, this is the ultimate we, not me sport. And he called them those guys. Like, this is. Jonas Steele did a great story where he pointed to Berubay doing this exact same thing in St. Louis during a losing streak. And it basically heralded the beginning of the end here. I mean, this is, this is the nightmare scenario right now. And the passion is gone, the crowds are dead, the team is lifeless right now, and I would love to give them some passion.
- [03:42]
Max Bolman
That was a great story by Jonas. I did not even remember that instance in St. Louis. So that does seem to be a little bit of a harbinger there. But I had a bunch of thoughts about this whole thing because on one hand, I think every Leafs fan thinks exactly what Craig Berube said. It's just. And I am not in the habit of telling players, coaches, whoever, to say less. So the only thing I can think of here is that it's like, like if you're analyzing it, you would give Craig Berube the guidance to absolutely. Do not say it this way. I, I don't think he's wrong. I don't think he's wrong that it's a lot to do with the players on that ice, on the, on that bench and on the ice.
- [04:25]
Mark Lazarus
It's one of those things where we always complain that these guys don't tell us what they're really feeling, and then the second they do, we pounce on them. Right? But this is just coaching one on one. This is not a novice guy who's not been around the league. Craig Berube says that knowing what is going to start right, he is, he is grasping at straws here and trying to light a fire under his team in any way he knows how. And this is the last. This is like one of his last options, this is, this nuclear option is throw the blame at them, pass the buck to them, challenge their manhoods. All that stuff that we talk about, it's an act of absolute desperation. It's probably not going to work. But here's the thing. If the Leafs go on what, a third three game win streak, they're basically in the playoffs. Like the way the Eastern Conference is set up right now, as dire as things are, and I don't think either of us really beliefs in these beliefs, these Leafs, it's not hard to see them just kind of squeaking their way back into the thick of things.
- [05:15]
Max Bolman
And if that happens, are we giving Craig Brubay credit for the genius motivational tactic or are we still slamming him for skirting accountability?
- [05:22]
Mark Lazarus
It's like every time John Tortorella went nuts and we were like, oh, he's, he's taking the focus away from his players. He's such a genius. It's like everyone's playing 4D chess out there and somehow we, the reporters fall for it every time, don't we?
- [05:34]
Max Bolman
I don't know that I think it's 4D chess. Like it may be a tactic. I think he's correct in what he said and simultaneously probably shouldn't have said it, but I'm glad he did. And for that, you know, Craig, maybe the Leafs will get their passion for Christmas, but that was Craig Brube's gift to us.
- [05:51]
Mark Lazarus
That's. I was about to say the Leafs have given the gift to podcasters everywhere of hashtag content and we thank them.
- [05:57]
Max Bolman
Well, I'll stay in Ontario, so I want to give the Ottawa Senators last year's Linus All Mark for Christmas. Last year he was a 909 goalie. Excellent. This year he looks unrecognizable. He stole them games last year and this year it's been the opposite. Now I say this Sunday night was a much better showing from Linus All Mark. Granted he didn't face a whole lot of action. Maybe it gets you on the right track. I actually don't think the safe percentage is actually, as I look at this, the safe percentage is actually no improvement there. So maybe that's, maybe it still holds. But I like this Senator's team, I think has the pieces, especially in this weak east, to make a run not just into the playoffs, but in the playoffs. But it's going to all hinge on Linus Hallmark being the guy he was for them a year ago.
- [06:39]
Mark Lazarus
Well, I think you really need the 2022-2024 Lenus Ohmark, right. Who is splitting time with Jeremy Swayman. That's Olmark at his best. He was pretty good last year. He was, I think, 17th in the league and goal saved above expected. It's not like he was lighting things up. So we have yet to see Linus Omark be a true. I am a number one goalie, a Connor Hellebuck, 65 games a year kind of guy. So I want to see that guy, the guy who is. Who won the Vezner. Right. I mean, but he did it in a, in a, in a. In a timeshare. I want to see him do that as the, as the number one guy.
- [07:11]
Max Bolman
I don't even think you need that. You just need the guy who's not giving you negative seven, which is what he's giving you to this point. Right? So that's what it is for me.
- [07:17]
Mark Lazarus
All right. I want to go down south. I want to go where it's a little warmer because it's been. I want to go to Tampa now. Look, I want. What I want to give the Tampa Bay Lightning is a neck brace for the whiplash of their season. They started one four and two. Okay, that was alarming. Seven to one after that, oh, they're fine again. Everything's great. Then a seven game win streak a little bit after that. Oh, they're Stanley cup contenders now. They lost like seven of nine before that big comeback over Carolina on Saturday. What are these guys? Because you look at the underlying numbers, this is the second best expected goals team in the league after Colorado. They give up the least scoring chances. They give up the least high danger chances. They got a plus 19 goal differential. Braden points, not even scoring yet, and they're doing this. So all signs point to the Lightning being fine. But this kind of. This is not what you expect from a veteran team like this. These kind of ebbs and flows.
- [08:03]
Max Bolman
No, it's very weird. I still think that they are the class certainly of the Atlantic Division, even if the standings don't reflect that. But yeah, I mean, there's some guys. Braden Point I think is the most mystifying to me. Like a guy who I have come to with a bullet, say, is a top 10 center in the NHL. The numbers aren't really there for him right now. At least the counting stats are not really there. I don't know if that's something that regression is going to solve. That's the mystery. I can't wrap my head around with the Lightning like the, the, the skids. Certainly you're Right. Are. Are mystifying, but I will feel very good about them making a run in the playoffs and. And being the best team in the Atlantic Division. It's just. I want to see where Braden Point, who's. I think their best center. I don't. Again, there's any argument that he's their best center. Hasn't quite looked like Braden Point to me.
- [08:44]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah. I can't decide if this is like frame. It positively is they're doing this without Braden Point scoring or if there's. Well, they're struggling from time to time because Braden Point is struggling. It's not early in the season yet, but it's hard to make those kind of judgments on what exactly. And I think we're going to come across this as we go through a lot of these teams is we don't know what a lot of these teams are because the standings are so compressed and the teams are so mediocre that, like, I don't know what every team out here is.
- [09:09]
Max Bolman
If I told you that 30 games and more than more than 30, 35 games into the season, Darren Radish would be outscoring Braden Point, you would have thought one of two things. Apocalypse or Braden Point was injured and.
- [09:22]
Mark Lazarus
Right. Yeah. Yeah. He blew out his knee or something. There's no way that happens. And that's. Again, it's. This is not a small sample size anymore. This is a pretty good chunk of the season. Yeah.
- [09:30]
Max Bolman
The other Florida team, the Panthers, I don't think there's any secrecy here on what they want or are going to get potentially for Christmas.
- [09:36]
Mark Lazarus
And.
- [09:37]
Max Bolman
And it's Matthew Kachuk back. And the only real question here, Laz, is, is he back in time for the marquee game, the Winter Classic?
- [09:42]
Mark Lazarus
They're turning it on earlier than I thought they would. I don't know if it's because of the Winter Classics. I know that a lot of fans and pundits like us, we kind of start rolling our eyes at these Winter Classics, these outdoor games. Like, they're just not that big a deal to us anymore. They matter to the players. Like, you know, I'm here in Chicago and guys like Connor Murphy still to this day talk about how they embarrassed themselves in the Winter Classic last year, how they played one of the worst games of their careers at that game and how it still gnaws at them. So the Panthers seem to be kind of like they found the switch a little early because I think it does matter. I think they want to go out there and have a big game you know, Kachuk got it circled, but they've won. What it, like 7 of 8 now before that loss to that to St. Louis on Saturday. So they're, they're starting to kick it into high gear. Like we've been kind of waiting for them lurking in the bushes. And here come the Panthers pouncing.
- [10:25]
Max Bolman
Yeah. Not only have they won seven of their last night, those include wins over the Hurricanes, Lightning and Stars, three of the inner circle contenders in this league.
- [10:34]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah. All right, let's go to their opponent in that, in that game, the Boston Bruins. What do you want to give them?
- [10:42]
Max Bolman
The Boston Bruins are tricky. Like, I almost want to give them a clearer direction, a clear lane to occupy. Like there. There was a nice little run the start of this season where we're thinking, oh, okay, they, Morgan Geeky's here. Are they gonna. In a wide open kind of flying in the wind east. Can they get in here and be a wild card team again? Of late has not looked quite so good. Obviously falling to Ottawa on Sunday night. So it didn't fall.
- [11:08]
Mark Lazarus
Waxed by Ottawa.
- [11:09]
Max Bolman
Yeah, that's right. Getting waxed by Ottawa on Sunday night. To me, I, I think the ideal is that they pick the rebuild lane, but I'd settle for either. It's just, I don't think you want to get stuck in this 14 to 18 range.
- [11:21]
Mark Lazarus
I wonder, because the Bruins are one of these few teams that have really pulled off the quote unquote retool. Right. You know, after, in the mid 20, mid 2000s, they kind of rebuilt around Charlie McAvoy and David Posternak and they got back to a Stanley cup final. That's not a thing we've seen a lot of good teams do where they only missed the playoffs for a year or two and they got right back into contention. I wonder if that colors their thinking here, if they think they can do it again, because they probably can't. It's really hard to do. And I agree with you. I think they need to like take a step back and start thinking at a bit more of a long term picture here.
- [11:54]
Max Bolman
It's tricky because when you have the goalie and Jeremy Swayman who is at playing great, you have a pretty good veteran decor here. Charlie McEvoy, Lindholm, like, you're pretty solid up front on D and then you have two great goal scorers, the temptation is like, we're only really one great center away and I think Zach has been like pretty competent there. More so as a number two, you have James Hagens in the system. Like I can see how you could convince yourself that if you bring James Hagan's in and play him with Pasternock, you can accelerate that a little bit. I just think it's a low ceiling even then.
- [12:25]
Mark Lazarus
And again, it's not like you're in the Central Division where you've got Colorado, Dallas and Minnesota headed right. You can make headway pretty quick in this. So I understood the temptation is absolutely going to be there. And it'll be fascinating to see how this next month or two, before the trade deadline progresses to see what tack they take.
- [12:40]
Max Bolman
Yeah. All right, how about Montreal? You got anything for them?
- [12:44]
Mark Lazarus
They need one of these goalies to emerge, right? Because you know, we were talking about Sam Montembo for a while there. For the last couple of years he looked like he was going to be the guy. Then Jakob Dovish comes in. Oh, he's clearly the guy. And he really leveled off after a great. He had a great start. A pretty terrible regression in November, he's kind of leveled off. As long as Jacob Fowler is playing Pittsburgh, he's the number one goalie in the world. He's basically Connor Hellebuyck. I think he's got like two shutouts or a shutout and a one goal game against them in like a nine day span. But I don't feel great about any. I love this Montreal team. I don't feel great about any of these goalies right now. They need one of these guys to step up and become the number one.
- [13:18]
Max Bolman
You love the Montreal team?
- [13:20]
Mark Lazarus
I don't not love them. There's a lot to like about it. Just this, all the stuff that we liked entering the season is still there. And if you put, if you put the right goalie behind someone who's going to, you know, not have like an.880 save percentage, I still think this can be a really competitive team. And again, this is the qualifier for every team we're talking about in the Eastern Conference. The east is wide open and nobody's very good. And you can. It's there for the taking.
- [13:43]
Max Bolman
Trying to quickly count how many wins they have over teams that were in the playoffs last year. I think it's like six, which is not very many. Like they've beaten up on a schedule that you know least not to say their whole schedule, but the teams that they've beaten up on have been the lower end of their schedule. That gives me a little bit of pause with them. But I do think you're right about what we want to give them for Christmas. It's just one of these guys has to emerge. And I think it's ambitious, honestly to ask for it to be Jacob Fowler, but they're going to need. You know, I thought coming in this year it was going to be hard to replicate it for Montembeau. You know, injuries obviously are, are a wild card factor there, but he's the guy I think it has to come from.
- [14:17]
Mark Lazarus
All right, let's go to your backyard. The Detroit Red Wings on top of the world right now. I think they're like two points out of first place in the entire conference. What are you giving the Detroit Red Wings?
- [14:27]
Max Bolman
I'm giving them a 2026 calendar that only has 11 months in it. The month of March just vanishes. That's been the month that has derailed them in each of the last two years. If you go back and look, they were in a great position at the end of February in 2024. They were in a great position at the end of February in 2025. March wiped them out both times. I guess I could just wish for the first playoff game or gift them the first playoff game in LCA history. Or at least hockey wise, the Pistons have had a couple, but I'm just going to get them the 11 month calendar and see psychologically if that accomplishes.
- [14:59]
Mark Lazarus
Anything the first half of that month too. This, this March. They got a brutal schedule to open the March this year, so it'll be a real test for them mentally and on the ice. I want to see that playoff game. I'm with you there. Like, that's one of my favorite arenas. It's basically a modernized Bell Center. The atmosphere in there should be amazing. It will be amazing. I loved covering games at Joe Lewis Arena. The big garbage bag of popcorn behind me in that quote unquote press box above the top row in the lower level. I loved that environment, was as good as any in the league. And I want to be there the first day that the Red Wings have a playoff game there.
- [15:32]
Max Bolman
If these were gifts for fan bases, the team that would deserve that gift, like the free pass to the playoffs, is not Detroit, it's Buffalo. Buffalo has weathered everything. They've been through all of it. They're still sticking around. Is that what we're giving Buffalo?
- [15:49]
Mark Lazarus
I'm going to give them a Bill Super Bowl. I don't know.
- [15:51]
Max Bolman
I'll take that. I think they'll take that too.
- [15:53]
Mark Lazarus
I think that's by far the most realistic thing. Josh Allen wasn't that great on Sunday, but they still Won. I just. Look, they had won five in a row heading into Sunday night, but they're just such an unremarkable team. Do you really believe that Alex Lyon can keep playing this at a 921 level? Shouldn't you? I mean, I hate to say this for a team that's constantly had to do this, but shouldn't they be selling high on him to Edmonton right now? Like, I just, I don't know, I just, I have a hard time believing in the Sabers.
- [16:18]
Max Bolman
They can, they can trade one of these goalies to Edmonton. No doubt they can trade one of these goalies. They probably need to move one of these goalies. The three man rotation always feels like, okay, like, give this a try and hey, someone will come around and this, this will work. All you end up doing is taking away practice reps from at least one of your goalies. One of those goalies is going to get rusty and then it's going to be a problem if he ever does have to come in because you really haven't been able to work three goalies into this net. Having said that, like, Buffalo's ahead of Toronto in the standings here, so we're gonna. They've won six in a row here. Like, I don't know that they need to go, they need to be the ones to go into the tank necessarily.
- [16:53]
Mark Lazarus
I just, I mean, do you. I feel like every year the Sabres have like a 10 game win streak and we're like, oh, it's finally happening. And then like the bottom falls out on them. It's just, you know, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 15 times, shame on me. I just, I want to see it. I'm with you. Like no fan base deserves it more. Buffalo is an amazing hockey town. The TV ratings bear it out every postseason. The Sabres are never in it. But Buffalo is always the biggest non playoff team market by far. I just, I'm not going to, I'm not going to believe it until I see it.
- [17:21]
Max Bolman
We know the new coach bump is a thing. Maybe the Sabers are showing us that the new GM bump is a thing too.
- [17:28]
Mark Lazarus
If we go to players barely even know who their GM is unless they get their contract from them. Come on.
- [17:33]
Max Bolman
And he's not really that new. He's been around anyways, so probably not.
- [17:41]
Capital One Bank Guy (Voiceover)
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- [18:11]
Advertisement Voice
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- [18:14]
Mark Lazarus
Zoe, this thing weighs a ton.
- [18:15]
Max Bolman
Drew Ski, lift with your legs, man.
- [18:17]
Mark Lazarus
Santa. Santa, did you get my letter? He's talking to you britches. I'm not.
- [18:21]
Max Bolman
Of course he did. Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice lift and elf.
- [18:27]
Mark Lazarus
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- [18:36]
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- [18:39]
Max Bolman
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- [18:41]
Mark Lazarus
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- [18:41]
Max Bolman
So you can keep your old phone or give it as a gift. And the best part, you can make the switch to T Mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes. Nice.
- [18:48]
Mark Lazarus
My side of the tree is slipping.
- [18:49]
Max Bolman
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- [18:51]
Mark Lazarus
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- [19:06]
Podcast Narrator (Sequoia Capital)
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- [19:06]
Mark Lazarus
Eligible for it in a new line. $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Check out 15 minutes or less per line.
- [19:10]
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- [19:45]
Max Bolman
All right, let's go to the Metro and a team I saw today, the Washington Capitals. You suggested this one. I think it's fantastic. I think we're going to give the Washington capital some respect. I just saw them lose a couple times this week, but I still look at this roster and I see a team that we were not ready. I think for at least the first half of last year to buy into the Capitals. They've defied the ability to they defied our skepticism of the ability to retool on the fly the way they have. At this point I'm pretty much all in on it. I think Alexi Protus is that like rare piece that you find that you go oh my gosh, this guy who was doing all these things that the under underlying numbers that we thought okay, can he really keep this up? He's one of the elite two way forwards in the league at this point. Ovechkin still looks great. John Carlson still looks really good. I I think that the the Capitals deserve some respect this Christmas.
- [20:34]
Mark Lazarus
I think we did an entire episode of this podcast last year where you half heartedly tried to convince me that Washington was for real and even you.
- [20:40]
Max Bolman
Didn'T believe, hey, that was at least three quarter heartedly.
- [20:44]
Mark Lazarus
I Since the start of last season, since the start of the 202425 season, only Colorado and Dallas have more standings points than Washington and it's only by five. And that's just because Colorado is such a ridiculous record this year. They are a plus 79 in that span. They've got the all time leading goal scorer on their team and he's still scoring at a high rate. Nobody seems to buy it. Everyone seems to just kind of write them off. When you're talking about the contenders, I agree. You got to give these guys their props. They're clearly contenders. They were very good last year. They're still very good this year. They've got more pieces than ever they're growing into. The goaltending's been terrific. The Washington Capitals are absolutely a possibility to come out of the east this year.
- [21:22]
Max Bolman
How about point per game? Tom Wilson for you too, by the way, last year like he's another guy who I think everyone is. Especially as we got into the Olympic conversation, it's been popular to like oh poo poo Tom Wilson. In comparison to some of the Connor Bedards of the world and all that, he's been a huge piece for the Washington Capitals. By the way, since we're on the topic of respect, our friends at BetMGM have Washington +400 to win. The Metro Hurricanes -250. That feels like too big a gap to me, even though I know how good the Hurricanes are.
- [21:48]
Mark Lazarus
The Hurricanes are great. But yeah, no, I, I, I, I and the Hurricanes have have proven over the years to be a great regular season team. I understand those odds, but I, I might, I might. I'm Not a gambler, but I might take that bet on Washington.
- [22:00]
Max Bolman
As for Carolina, I think they already got their present this year. I think their present has been gifted to them really since the early season. And that is an Eastern Conference that is wide open for the taking. For the team that struggles to get over. For the Humphreys, the absence of a juggernaut in the Eastern Conference, that's the best thing Carolina could ask for.
- [22:18]
Mark Lazarus
You know, it's amazing. Like, I don't think there's any team in the league that is safer, at least in the. In the east, obviously Colorado is fine, but, like, there's no team in the east that's safer right now because, you know, they've got a lead and nobody thinks that like the Islanders or the Devils or the Flyers are coming after them. Right? Like, there's no. It's all, you know, someone will beat me up for saying this, but, like, there's no way they fall out of the playoffs the way they're playing and in the division they're in. I still have questions. We're always going to have questions until they do in the playoffs. You know, is Brandon Boosie legit? That's 11 and 1. He's got a.913 save percentage. People always say it's easy to play behind Carolina, but neither Freddie Anderson nor pyotr Kochov can break.900 right now. So he's doing something right. Brandon Busy. A waiver wire pickup has really solidified this team again. I need to see it in the playoffs. I need to see a goalie do it in the playoffs for more than a round or two. And I need to see their big gun score some goals.
- [23:09]
Max Bolman
I would be very nervous to have it now. Granted, maybe he's. Maybe we consider him proven by the time April rolls around. And I don't think it's going to keep up at this rate, but if it keeps up very strong, maybe, maybe that's full. It's like we've never seen a rookie goalie be good in the playoffs, right? I mean, Jordan Biddington, I believe, was still a rookie when he led St. Louis to the Cup. I would feel very nervous going into the playoffs with him as my goaltender right now.
- [23:30]
Mark Lazarus
All right, let's get into the mushy middle of the metro here. I want to give the New York Islanders something that they might not actually want. I want to give them Matthew Schaefer. Being left off of Team Canada. The scars run deep on Long Island. Nobody. I'm a native Long Islander, so I can speak for this Nobody holds a grudge or stews on something bad happening like a Long Islander. And it's been 11 years or almost 12 years since John Tavares blew out his knee in Sochi. That is a fresh memory on Long Island. And as fun as it would be to see Matthew Schaefer, as much as he deserves it, and he does deserve it. Matthew Schaefer absolutely is one of the best seven or eight Canadian defensemen in the world right now. I want to give to the New York Islanders the stress relief of not having him in Milan.
- [24:12]
Max Bolman
I bet if we gave them truth serum, I bet they'd agree with you.
- [24:16]
Mark Lazarus
Oh yeah. Almost every team in the league almost doesn't want any of their players in Milan right now. No coach wants to see their players in Milan. No gm, no owner. Nobody wants to see. They want to see the arena not get completed and the Olympics just canceled. That's what these, that's what every coach in GM wants right now.
- [24:32]
Max Bolman
Well, let's stay in the Tri State then. Maybe Santa can double barrel a very similar gift over to New Jersey, which is a Jack Hughes sized roll of bubble, bubble wrap to the New Jersey Devils to keep Jack Hughes in the lineup and healthy. They, they really can't afford to be without him. That, that's been clear over the last couple years.
- [24:48]
Mark Lazarus
I was looking up the numbers earlier today. Before the injury. They had a 7:35 points percentage behind only Colorado. They were scoring 3.35 goals per game. They had a 25% power play clip since the injury. They're like at 450 points percentage. They're in the 25th, 26th in the league. They're right around like San Jose and Pittsburgh and Vancouver. They're scoring a full goal less per game. Their power plays down to 16.7%. We're seeing this in Chicago with Connor Bedard. There are some guys that you simply cannot remove from a lineup. The whole house of cards comes crumbling down and that's what we're seeing. Jack Hughes is the New Jersey Devils offense.
- [25:24]
Max Bolman
Yeah, no, I completely agree. So I would like to see it. I think it's good for the game when Jack Hughes is healthy and you.
- [25:32]
Mark Lazarus
Guys have made fun of me before in the past. He might be my very favorite player in the league to watch. I think he's, I think.
- [25:37]
Max Bolman
Well you said he's like top 10.
- [25:38]
Mark Lazarus
I said he was like a top five top 10 player. Maybe that might be hyperbolizing a bit, but if he were healthy, he could be. The problem is he never seems to get a full season in. He is for me, one of the most exciting, most creative. I love his attitude. He's kind of a pain in the ass to deal with as a reporter and I kind of like the way he pushes back and the snarky gives. I love Jack Hughes and I want to see him, I want to see him healthy. And if it takes bubble wrap to do it, then so be it.
- [26:04]
Max Bolman
So three words I heard they're exciting, creative, loving attitude. I don't think we apply any of those to the New York Rangers here. And I think what we're getting for them is a whiteout pen so they can go contract by contract and just erase all these no trade clauses so that they have the flexibility to shake things up.
- [26:21]
Mark Lazarus
God, if you were starting over, who would still have a no trade clause? And it would be Shusturkin.
- [26:25]
Max Bolman
Yep.
- [26:26]
Mark Lazarus
Fox. I guess Gavrikov. Gavrikov deserved that. I'd be okay.
- [26:29]
Max Bolman
Gavrikov's been good.
- [26:31]
Mark Lazarus
But like Panera, none of the four. Yeah, Zabanajad, Miller, Trocheck. I think lafrenier has a partial. Like no, they have. I saw this in Chicago too, in the later years of the after the cup when every player was on the decline but had a full no movement clause. And it just completely hamstrings what you're able to do. You get when you. And when you are able to move them, they, it's like the, it's the clutch Roo situation where they just completely dictate where they want to go. You don't get any kind of value for your players. The Rangers are not in a good spot, man. They're going to be, they're going to be paying for this for a long time. And they have. The worst part is they, you know, they've had a couple of conference final appearances, got nothing to show for it. They haven't won a cup in, you know, what, 30, 32 years with Philadelphia.
- [27:13]
Max Bolman
Here's how, here's how I approached my thought process on this. Do you ever have something that like every year you kind of ask for, but because you've asked for it, no one really wants to give it to you? Like, people want to surprise you. They want to think outside the box. It's very sweet. But what you really wanted was this one thing. And for the Philadelphia Flyers, it's, it's the boring pick, but it's what they want. It's what they need. It's a new, not a used, recycled center. They need a centerman. They need A homegrown, fresh out of the box centerman to pair with what could be one of the most exciting young winger groups in the NHL.
- [27:45]
Mark Lazarus
They're not bad enough to get it that way though. They're going to have to. I know somewhere else because like this is another one of those teams where I. There might not be a team in the league that I am more confused about than the Philadelphia Flyers. I have no idea what they are. Are they pretty good? Are they actually kind of bad? Are they maybe actually good? I have no idea. I can't make heads or tails of the team. But when you look at that depth chart, if you put a true number one center in there and Zegers can drop down a couture, all of a sudden you have the makings of a real lineup. So you're right. I just don't see how they're going to get one because they're not going to be drafting in the top five this year.
- [28:15]
Max Bolman
Mitchkov and Marton obviously are going to be two of the most exciting playmaking wingers in the NHL. And so it's not like this person has to be super puck dominant. I think you just need really good like play driving in terms of like territorial two way center. Ideally you have some finish that when those guys set you up in a good spot, you can make the most of it.
- [28:34]
Mark Lazarus
Can you?
- [28:35]
Max Bolman
Can you get it? Picking 10 to 12, it's probably stretching it. You might be as high as they can.
- [28:40]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, the chances are you're not going to get that true number one center at that spot unless you just get lucky. And that's what it is at that point. After the top four or five, it's. There's a lot of luck involved when you're picking in the teams or even the high 10.
- [28:53]
Max Bolman
It reminds me a team that's been in that spot for a long time and now I think, I think is out of it. That's the Columbus Blue Jackets.
- [29:01]
Mark Lazarus
Columbus Blue Jackets. You know, the, the dress. I feel bad. I don't want to say this because it sounds meaner than it is. I think Adam Fantilli is a good, very, very, very good player who can still become a great player. Like a legit star player. 31 goals last year. He's playing well this year. He's got 12 goals, 22 points in 35 games. He is very good. He's only 21. I can't emphasize that enough. But what I would give to the Blue Jackets is the same third year megaleap that Chicago has gotten from Connor Bedard and Anaheim has gotten from Leo Carlson. That's what they need. They need Fantilly to become their star. They're homegrown, not like a free agent or a trade they made and tried to convince to stay. They need Fantilly to become that. And it's got to be hard if you're Columbus, if you're a Blue Jackets fan, to see Bedard and Carlson going off because those guys were joined at the hip. That entire draft. The whole year leading up to that draft, it was Bedard and Fantilly and Carlson, and everyone thought Fantilly was going to go second most of the year. And then Anaheim went out and picked Carlson and raised some eyebrows and they looked like geniuses right now. There's still time, but I want that now because I don't want. I don't want that pressure on Fantilly and I don't want that burden on Blue Jackets.
- [30:09]
Max Bolman
I still think it's coming and I think that we see it take a little bit longer with players of Fantilly's profile. When you play the power game, the hard game, right? Like, there's just that much more that you have to grow into because that style of game you really can't do until you're in your man body. I. I think Fantilly still has more to come there. Maybe it's not going to be like the Bedard production, the Carlson production, but I think he's a winning player in the mold of, you know, Brady Tkachuk was a few years into his career when the offense started to catch up to some of those other things.
- [30:36]
Mark Lazarus
We talk all the time. Nathan McKinnon was like his fifth year before he became Nathan McKinnon.
- [30:40]
Max Bolman
And McKinnon, I think, obviously has a little bit more of the, like, speed, creativity, dynamism to him maybe, than Fantilli does, but certainly there's speed in Fantilli's game and there's a lot of power to it. I think the. The Brady Kachuk, but he plays center. That's a pretty good selling point and that's what I think Fantilli can kind of be.
- [30:56]
Mark Lazarus
For the record, I'm still waiting to grow into my man body. I'm still waiting for that to happen someday. We got one more team out east, it's the Pittsburgh Penguins, and I want to give them 40 minute hockey games because, holy cow, like, this is. It is uncanny how good they are at blowing third period. I think. I think it's seven times or eight times they've lost when when leading entering the third period, three of them during a recent eight game losing streak.
- [31:20]
Max Bolman
Like they almost did it again Sunday night. They, they, they led, they blew it. They did pull it out in the shootout, but they put that in play for Montreal once again.
- [31:29]
Mark Lazarus
It which is like it's clearly in their heads at this point, right? Like there's no way that keeps happening to you and you don't start thinking about it every time you enter a third period. So I just want to give them little two period games and they get to go home early, beat the traffic on I270 and everything will be fine. Hey, you want to pay just 10 bucks for your phone service at Boost Mobile? Just 10 bucks for your phone service at Boost Mobile? Yeah, I totally do. This holiday, the best gift is for you. Pay just $10 a month for the first two months, then $25 a month forever with unlimited data, talk and text offer valid@boostmobile.com after your first two months, you'll pay $25 a month unless you go online or call to cancel. Requires autopay this holiday season, Capital One reminds you to give yourself the gift of 1.5% cash back with the Capital One Quicksilver Card.
- [32:27]
Max Bolman
Can I earn 1.5% cash back on birds?
- [32:29]
Mark Lazarus
Birds?
- [32:30]
Max Bolman
What if you sent your true love two turtle doves plus a partridge and a pear tree?
- [32:35]
Mark Lazarus
Sure, but why would anyone want that? The song was very convincing. Earn 1.5% cash back on all your holiday purchases with the Capital One Quicksilver Card.
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Max Bolman
What's in your wallet?
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Terms apply.
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Mark Lazarus
See capitalone.com for details. Hey podcast listener, we'd like to hear what you think about podcasts, including this one, and offer you a chance at a $100Amazon gift card. Just go to podcastsurvey. Co. We're Signal Hill Insights and you might have seen our podcast research in the New York Times or Washington post. Go to podcastsurvey.co to take our 5 minute survey and as our thank you, when you're done, you'll have the chance to win a $100Amazon gift card. That's podcastsurvey co. Hey, it's Adam Grant.
- [33:22]
Max Bolman
From Ted's Work Life with Adam Grant, and this message is brought to you by at&t. You know, we spend a lot of time here separating fact from claim, and when it comes to mobile networks, that distinction matters. When AT&T makes a claim, it's one.
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Mark Lazarus
You can count on.
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Max Bolman
AT&T is America's fastest and most reliable wireless network. And that's not opinion. It's Data based on RootMetrics United States Root Score Report 1H 2025 tested with best commercially available smartphones on three national mobile networks across all available network types. Your experiences may vary. RootMetrics rankings are not an endorsement of AT&T Foreign. Let's go to the Central now and the the team I struggled the most with, Laz, is the same thing you struggle with every Christmas. What do you get the person that has everything? What do you get the team that seemingly has everything? So I'm going to give the Colorado Avalanche a challenge and I think that's probably most in the form of the Dallas Stars. But hopefully it's also coming in the form of Connor Halibut coming back. Queen Hughes entering the division. I think one of the hardest things to do and maybe this is why we see like these record breaking teams, these President's Trophy winning teams go out in the first round. I think it's hard to keep your edge when you build up a buffer. Right. And so I think for that reason it's a good thing for the Colorado Avalanche that their division is the most competitive in hockey, that the Dallas Stars are not going to just get left in the dust and that Minnesota is, is adding up and that Winnipeg is getting the best goalie in the world back because I think that's the biggest thing the Avalanche need.
- [34:50]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, I mean the Avalanche just went out and smoked the Wild on Sunday night. So I'm not even sure that even qualifies as a challenge right now. I agree with you that, that it can be a challenge for teams, especially teams that haven't won recently to flip that switch. We always talk about it like I don't worry about it with the Florida Panthers, I didn't worry about them with them last year. I don't worry about it. Even if Edmonton kind of got incredibly hot, I wouldn't worry about it. But a team like Colorado, I don't know because they are a few years removed from a Stanley Cup. They've got a lot of pieces from that team but a lot of new guys too that haven't done this before. They lost in the first round last year against that Dallas team. So yeah, I agree. Like I feel like they need something to come up because other than like the Harry Potter time Turner that, that Hermione had, do those only go backward or can you just go forward to mid April right now? Because that's what they would really want is just like let's just get to the playoffs right now while we are clicking on all cylinders and just Rolling. That's what they need right now.
- [35:43]
Max Bolman
Yeah, well, hold on to that idea. We may come around to something like that in the future here. What do you got for the Dallas Stars?
- [35:48]
Mark Lazarus
I want to trade the Dallas Stars back to the Pacific Division. I think that would be the best thing possible for them right now. It's just. I know they hated the travel when they were out there, and those are brutal. Like, every road trip was like, three hours minimum. Going out to California all the time. But imagine how dominant they would be in that division. And imagine how much easier their path would be to another conference final if they didn't have to go through Minnesota right now. And Minnesota looks really, really good and now has Quinn Hughes than the mighty Colorado Avalanche. Like, obviously, Dallas has proven that. They've proven they can beat these teams, but that's hard to do every year. And if they were out west, if you gave them Anaheim followed by, like, Edmonton or something, I. They'd win it in 10 games total.
- [36:29]
Max Bolman
I never like the argument that, like, you heard us a lot with Toronto in recent seasons, like, at any other division. Oh, of course. They had to play the Lightning in the first round or whatever. Right. If you're. If you're going to win the Stanley cup, you're going to have to beat good teams, and you're going to have to do it at some point, and you might as well just do it right off the bat when in theory, you're the healthiest. You're going to be. That being said, I do get your point here, and I. I understood it with Toronto, and I understand it for Dallas is it is tough when, like, especially if you get that second seed and your prize is hosting a team that's just as good as you and the winner is going to get a team that is probably better than you, and you might be a top five team in the league and you have to beat two of the other top five teams.
- [37:05]
Mark Lazarus
How about we give Dallas a one through eight seating system instead That.
- [37:08]
Max Bolman
I like that better. I like that better.
- [37:11]
Mark Lazarus
All right, what about the. Let's go to the third team of the Holy Western, triumphant right now, the Minnesota Wild. What do you gift them? Them?
- [37:16]
Max Bolman
Yeah, I'm gifting them some real estate for them to build the Quinn Hughes statue when he extends there and becomes the. The face of Minnesota hockey.
- [37:25]
Mark Lazarus
You know what, is he going to last the season the way they're playing him? Oh, my God, they paid him 32 minutes in Columbus.
- [37:30]
Max Bolman
Be careful, the Wild fans. When I made a joke about this this weekend, were all over me for making this joke.
- [37:36]
Mark Lazarus
It's not even a joke like, it's like a. No. Nobody plays 30 minutes a night in the NHL in the regular season. We want to talk about doing that in the playoffs. Absolutely. But the Wild are riding him hard and I know if anyone can handle it, it's Quinn Hughes. He is awesome. I love Quinn Hughes. I love. And I hate to say this because, you know, I'm an East coast guy who lives in the Midwest and tries to like support the Western Conference in general. So many more people are going to see Quinn Hughes now that he's in Minnesota than when he was in Vancouver because his games aren't going to be on at 10:30 a night and he is freaking awesome. You should seek out every Minnesota wide. I've never said this before in my life. You should seek out Minnesota Wild games. That's how good Quinn Hughes is. He's going to make the Minnesota Wild exciting. His workloading him too hard.
- [38:22]
Max Bolman
It was more manageable Sunday, only 26 and a half minutes, which I know that's a funny only to send but when the alternative was 32. Now granted, maybe that's only. Maybe that's only because they lost five to one and they were like, all right, well we're not going to burn it on this. I thought it was interesting though. I don't know if you saw Drance and Dom had a really interesting exchange on Twitter this weekend just talking about the usage and, and how Hughes was deployed against McDavid much more than. Than Vancouver had really used him in that head to head. That is going to be interesting to see the more that I mean to me. Yeah, if you're going to play him with Faber, then that's part of the, that's part of the freight that you're going to have to do with playing with Brock. Favor is taking Brock Favor is taking matchups like that. But it's, it's an interesting one. It's. It's kind of a next level challenge for Hughes.
- [39:03]
Mark Lazarus
Well, what do you want to do? Do you want him to be freed up matchups to score points or do you want your best defenseman on the ice against the other team's best players? I, I lean towards the latter. I want him out there against the best players.
- [39:13]
Max Bolman
I do too. And I think because Quinn Hughes can kind of tilt the ice, what you're trying to do is make the other team's best players play the D zone as much as you can.
- [39:19]
Mark Lazarus
You're trying to keep the buck away from Nathan McKinnon or Connor McDavid or whoever. Right. And you do that by putting Quinn Hughes on. That's because nobody has the puck on his stick more than Quinn Hughes does.
- [39:27]
Max Bolman
And the thing is, like, the list of players who can skate with Nathan McKinnon and Connor McDavid is extremely small. It might be 10 players, and Quinn Hughes is on that list. So that's another way that it tracks. How about you? How about the team in your backyard last Chicago? What do you want to get them for Christmas?
- [39:42]
Mark Lazarus
I want to get them like a set of what they call fishbowl bubbles or college cages, because. Yeah. Oh, my God. Frank Nazar took a puck to the face. He's out a month now. Tavo Taravinen took a puck to the face a week and a half ago, missed a couple of games. His face had ballooned up. Two years ago, Bedard breaks his jaw on a hit. Like, I honest to God, I don't understand how players aren't playing with those. Like, every player should be wearing a face mask at all times. I didn't understand it when guys in the 90s refused to put helmets on. I didn't understand it in the 2000s when guys refused to put visors on. And I don't understand in a modern era where sticks are so. Are so, you know, whippy and guys are shooting up. Always are. Always shooting high. Now, why in God's name would you just leave 70% of your face exposed to that rubber? I don't. I don't know what it is. I think there's actually a rule against it because they don't like the marketing of having a bubble on. Put a God face mask on. It's better to play 82 games than to look cool. That's my spiel.
- [40:42]
Max Bolman
I would think that it has to do with vision and thinking that, like, you know, you can see that much better. And, you know, Connor Bedard scored like.
- [40:50]
Mark Lazarus
190 goals in wearing a fish bubble in juniors or whatever, or in world juniors, like, you can still score goals.
- [40:57]
Max Bolman
I'm with you. I think on this that, like, put on the. It should be more popular than it is.
- [41:01]
Mark Lazarus
Put on the cut resistant turtlenecks, put on a face shield. Protect yourself. You are a multimillion dollar investment from your team. Fans want to see you play and you want to play. Protect yourself out there. You're not. Yeah, I had a cover. I don't want to get off too much of a side tangent. I had a conversation in the locker room in la. I won't say who was talking, but I was asking what ruled they would change. And one of the guys says, I would like to be able to not wear my helmet during warmups. I'm like, that's the rule you would want to change? He's like, yeah, it just feels better. And Connor Murphy's sitting over there. And two years ago Connor Murphy took a puck off the face because he didn't have his helmet on during warm ups. It bounced off the crossbar and he agreed. I don't know what we're doing anymore, man.
- [41:38]
Max Bolman
Yeah, that's a wild one. I don't understand the appeal of the no helmet and warmups. I would be out there just the entire time conscious of the fact that.
- [41:45]
Mark Lazarus
I would have Jack uses bubble wrap all around me head to toe at all times.
- [41:49]
Max Bolman
Well, no you can't. It's in New Jersey. They only made one of those custom.
- [41:52]
Mark Lazarus
I'm also a lot bigger than Jack Hughes.
- [41:54]
Max Bolman
Yeah, the the Winnipeg Jets. I'm going to keep this one simple. They need VEZ in a level hellback. Especially now. Especially with what has come into their division since in the time between when he was out and now. They need Connor Helbuk to be at his very, very best.
- [42:09]
Mark Lazarus
Not even without question. I mean they. He's looked pretty good since coming back. They're already leaning on him harder. He needs to be that 65 game pace guy. Can he be on, on. On a recovering knee? I don't know. But they're clearly not a playoff team without him.
- [42:22]
Max Bolman
They have work to do. I mean they are right now they are toward the very bottom of the NHL standings. I think that they will recover from this like they've shown us.
- [42:29]
Mark Lazarus
But again the last three years, this is the opposite of the Eastern Conference. There are three teams that they will not catch in their division. Yep. So that leaves a much narrower gap for them to get into the playoffs. Yeah.
- [42:40]
Max Bolman
Really, you're chasing the Mammoth. They have a games in hand advantage on the Mammoth and that's going to be the interesting thing. Especially with Logan Cooley out. I do think like if there is a team that I think can do it, I think the Winnipeg jets are that team. But they need to stay healthy and they need Hellbuuck to be Pete Kelle Buck to do it.
- [42:55]
Mark Lazarus
Well, let's go right to those Utah Mammoth and you know what I want to give the Mammoth is the Corel Vamelka that was promised to me in the fantasy rankings by Dom and Shayna because I fell for it. I think it Was all just a big ploy against me. I drafted him very highly. I think they had him as one of the top goalies in the league and he, the Utah Mammoth have the worst 5 on 5 say percentage in the offensive entire NHL. Worse than St. Louis. So I think Dom and Shayna intentionally sabotaged me. My team is garbage. You're trying to get guys from me already. It's not even New Year's and I'm already trading everyone and I'm really mad about it.
- [43:27]
Max Bolman
And my offers for those guys really haven't gone up yet either.
- [43:30]
Mark Lazarus
Despite your offers are pathetic.
- [43:31]
Max Bolman
You want to get waiting longer?
- [43:32]
Mark Lazarus
Jack Hughes, get the hell out of here.
- [43:35]
Max Bolman
You can't take him with you. I guess actually technically you can. It's a keeper league.
- [43:38]
Mark Lazarus
All right, so let's. Similar line. Let's talk about the Blues. Yeah, I just made fun of their goaltending because it's hilariously bad. I want to give them an Epstein file like redaction of the standings that nobody sees their goal differential because if you, if you, if you, if you like got seriously injured in October and you just woke up from a coma and you looked at the NHL standings right now, the Blues would be right about where you thought they would be. Right? Like they're on the periphery of the playoff picture. They're like a point or two out of the playoffs. They're very much in striking range. They are a minus 33 and that's after a four goal win on Saturday. Seattle is next at minus 21. The Blues, it's. You can't take this team seriously with a goal differential like that.
- [44:18]
Max Bolman
So are you just redacting the goal differential or are we redact? So you like, you can't even see where they are in the standings?
- [44:24]
Mark Lazarus
No, you can see where they're. Because they're right where they're supposed to be. They're kind of in it. Kind of. Not like nobody was super excited about the St. Louis Blues entering the season, but you see that minus 33. You just laugh at them. Like there's just no way that's a playoff team to go this far into the season and be that much underwater.
- [44:39]
Max Bolman
I like it. I like it. All right, Last one in the Central is the Nashville Predators. I think I'm going to take your idea on this one. We talked about it pre show. I think what Nashville needs is for this recent little hot spell to go away. They do not, they do not need to delude themselves into thinking that this is going to end anywhere positive. They need to Sell. They need to pick high in the draft and they probably need to do that for multiple years. If you. Barry Trots I admire so much. He was one of the best coaches in the NHL of a generation. And I wonder if he's managing a little bit too much like a coach where you just. You see the potential in players and you think you can get it out of them and that's where your head is. Rather than kind of come what may. Okay, they're going to. The results are going to tell us what they are. What I need to do. I think he might be managing a bit too much like a coach.
- [45:24]
Mark Lazarus
That's a great point. I hadn't really thought of him in that. That respect, but that does make sense. Where you, a GM and a coach very much look at their rosters, coaches trying to win now. And the GM's got like a three year plan. No coach has a three year plan because most.
- [45:36]
Max Bolman
Because they're not going to be there.
- [45:37]
Mark Lazarus
Years in the NHL. Right. Yeah. The last thing this team needs is an excuse for Barry Trots to stay the course. Just staying in the course would be an unmitigated disaster for this team. Yeah.
- [45:46]
Max Bolman
All right, let's go to the Pacific and we'll start with the Edmonton Oilers. The Edmonton Oilers, by the way, committed a little bit of. At least in my family, what is a big. No, no. You do not shop for yourself. In the month of December leading up for Christmas, the Edmonton Oilers did. They went out and they got themselves a Tristan Jari. They might want to do over.
- [46:04]
Mark Lazarus
They might get one because, you know, Jarry's always week to week already. It was a lateral move at best to begin with. I don't think anybody was really excited about it outside of maybe Stan Bowman. So maybe this actually opens the door for someone better. Maybe it is Alex Lyon. Laurent Brassoise is playing well for the Rockford Ice Hogs and there's nowhere for him to go in Chicago. They want to move him. He scored a goalie goal. Come on. That's pretty good. You need goals. Goals are good. I. I think this, no offense to Tristan Jari. His playoff track record is abysmal in more recent seasons and his regular season record is not that much better. So I just, I think that that was a bad move and I think this injury opens the door for them to make another one that could be a little bit better.
- [46:45]
Max Bolman
What about for the Vancouver Canucks? What do you got for them?
- [46:48]
Mark Lazarus
The Vancouver Canucks? Oh, those poor Vancouver Canucks. I want to give them the number one draft Pick. Oh wow. I want to do something nice for the Vancouver Canucks who are never nice to me in my mentions, but I love the Vancouver Canucks. That is the most, you know, bat BLEEP fan base in the NHL and God bless them for it. They provide so much entertainment. Come, come back to us at lol. Vancouver. I missed that Twitter account. It was one of the all time greats in the old days of Twitter. After watching Macklin Celebrini and Connor Bedard, the two local boys, the two North Vancouver guys, blow up the way they have, they should get one of their own and then they can go out and ruin him completely the way they ruin everybody else.
- [47:26]
Max Bolman
Is Gavin McKenna the number one pick right now?
- [47:29]
Mark Lazarus
I don't know. It's starting to feel like James Hagen.
- [47:31]
Max Bolman
He was fourth on Corey's last most recent ranking and he put an own goal in in a world junior pre tournament game a couple days ago.
- [47:38]
Mark Lazarus
Hey, that happens to the best of them. Everyone puts in a known goal every now and then. Patrick Kane had an own goal once. Yeah, I don't know who it is. This isn't the draft. From everything that smart people tell me, this isn't the draft to have the number one pick, but I, you know, that that would just fit Vancouver to a tee then, wouldn't it?
- [47:54]
Max Bolman
It would. We'll stay in the Pacific Northwest and I'm giving the Seattle Kraken a lump of coal.
- [48:01]
Mark Lazarus
If, if anyone deserves it.
- [48:02]
Max Bolman
Oh man, it's the Seattle Kraken for reasons off ice. And I mean I thought that the press situation over the weekend that broke, you know, them having to have only the team reporter ask questions, that's the primary reason for this. But on the ice too. I mean, Jordan Eberle is their leading goal score right now. Not a lot going right in Seattle for an expansion team that I think we were all pretty excited about when they were announced. Not so much the roster, but as a franchise. It just seemed like, yeah, this could be a really good fit. I think that the way they approached it and the way they staffed it, I don't really have any qualms or places I can point to with that. Not a lot's gone right there. I, I just can't figure out why they haven't been able to find more traction.
- [48:47]
Mark Lazarus
I just find them so God awful boring. Like they're a game, 60 minute hockey game, like 59 minutes and 58 seconds of it is just spent with five guys crammed along the boards in the neutral zone trying not to move the puck. Just trapping the puck with their skate. They are just abysmal to watch. Lane Lambert, besides, that nonsense he pulled with that press conference is the most boring man I've ever heard speak. I don't know how you get a lot of inspiration from him as a player. This is. This team just like, it's such a shame. It's such a cool city. It's such a cool arena. I love going out there. I hate watching every Seattle Kraken game. I'm sorry. I want to like the Kraken. They got cool uniforms. I like Bowie, the mascot. Everything's going right except for everything that's happening over the actual hockey team. And it's just a bummer.
- [49:32]
Max Bolman
I would like their approach in trying to stockpile these young centers. For some reason, they cannot keep the momentum for these young players as they start to find it. Like, Matty Benier has won the Calder Trophy, has not come close to reaching that production level since Shane Wright. Seemed like it was a breakthrough year last year, fallen way off that pace to start this year. It's very bizarre that they just can't seem to kind of hold these progressions with doing what I think any of us would tell a team that's starting from scratch to do. Build from down the middle. They've done it. They just haven't done it.
- [50:00]
Mark Lazarus
They just don't have any elite players. They don't have any elite talent. And you need some elite talent to build around. You can't just have a bunch of pretty good guys.
- [50:08]
Max Bolman
Yeah. All right. Where else you want to go in the West? How about Anaheim?
- [50:12]
Mark Lazarus
Let's. Let's go to la, actually, because the other most boring team in the league that I can't stand watching, I want to. I want to give a bottle of no dose of their fans because, like, I. I think Phil De no might have been their leading scorer with zero goals. That's how boring the Los Angeles Kings are to play. It's funny. I talked to Drew Doughty when I was out there a couple weeks ago. We were kind of Talking about that 2012 and 2014 teams, those really heavy Kings teams that. That just dominated. They were like the last real heavy team to win the Stanley Cup. And I loved watching them play. I loved watching them play the more graceful and speedy Blackhawks. It was such a cool mismatch. And I was asking him, like, do you think those teams could thrive in the modern day NHL? And he said he thinks he could, but, like, the game is so much different. I said, there's a lot Less thinking in the game. Now everyone is so fast that the game is just pure reaction and improvisation. It was a really interesting conversation, but the more I thought about, the more he was everything. He was talking about the modern NHL, it's not the Los Angeles Kings. They're not fast, they're not exciting, they're not very creative. They're successful because they've got enough talent and they're well coached and they play a system really well. They do what Seattle's trying to do. But I just, I just don't want to see these kind of like half trapping teams anymore in the NHL.
- [51:23]
Max Bolman
I first wanted to give for the Anaheim Ducks. I wanted to give Joel Quenville a Labubu so that he could better relate to today's youth. But I think you, I think you've got another idea for him.
- [51:35]
Mark Lazarus
Are those still happening? I thought, I thought we've already moved past.
- [51:37]
Max Bolman
That's very possible.
- [51:39]
Mark Lazarus
I actually saw one yesterday. It was the first one I'd ever seen in person. I just saw a guy with a Labubu on his backpack. I'm like, all right, there you go.
- [51:45]
Max Bolman
I've been trying to sell various friends and acquaintances at holiday parties on the concept of a Subaru Labubu called the Labubaru. I think it's a million dollar idea. No one has reacted positively to it.
- [51:58]
Mark Lazarus
Just producer Chris, just, you know, I'm quitting this podcast.
- [52:02]
Max Bolman
A lot of reactions just like that. I thought it was a fine idea. But you, you had something else in mind for Quenville.
- [52:07]
Mark Lazarus
I want to give Joel Quenville a a year supply of Tums because the odds of this man is going to have in the playoffs with his team that gives up chances at such a. At like a league worst rate. They're like the anti Tampa Bay Lightning. They are just giving up action nonstop. I don't know how Joel Quinville is going to handle having covered him in the playoffs when one single defensive mistake would set him off into nuclear levels. I don't know how he's going to handle in like a game five or a game six the way his team plays hockey. I love it. It's like everything I was just saying about the Seattle and the Kings. The Ducks are how I want hockey to be. Just let's freaking go. Let's score some goals. They are so much fun. I love the Anaheim Ducks. I'm not convinced Joe Quinn was going to.
- [52:51]
Max Bolman
I think if you can play in this manner and you have the style of players, I mean, they're young they want to run and gun, but they have the ability to rein this in. And that's where I think Anaheim was in such a good spot is. I look at their team and I don't see any reason that Leo Carlson and Mason McTavish and Beckett Seneca can't reign this in and turn into the kind of complete game playoff hockey team.
- [53:14]
Mark Lazarus
And to be fair, like the team that a lot of people, including Joel Quinville have compared this team to is like the 2008, 2009 Blackhawks who just, you know, Denny Savard and then Joel Quinville just basically let Kane Taves and Patrick Sharp just run wild on the top line and basically taught them defense later and they became one of the great possession teams of all time. So you're absolutely right. I hope that doesn't happen soon though, because I really like watching the Ducks play the way they play.
- [53:38]
Max Bolman
Yeah, absolutely. Vegas Golden Knights. I wanted to get them a fast forward button because I think as we talked about earlier, there are some teams that have kind of been there, done that, proven that they can flip the switch. I think Vegas is there and I. I think that this is going to be an annoying second half of the year to just kind of wait until what they're really waiting for. You had an alternate idea on that one too.
- [53:56]
Mark Lazarus
The trade deadline. When they make some move that drives everybody nuts. Is that what they're. That what they're really waiting for?
- [54:00]
Max Bolman
You can fast forward to that too. Yeah, but I think, I think we're. We're in the movie. Click here. We got to get through some of the boring stuff here for Vegas.
- [54:06]
Mark Lazarus
I want to give them a Mitch Marner regression to the mean. He's got six goals. Look, he's playing Selkie caliber defense like he is playing outstanding hockey. He will not shoot the puck. He has 15 games this season in which he's had zero or one shot, zero or one 15 times. So a lot of this is self inflicted. He's got like 52 shots or something like that in 33 games. That's not enough. He's too talented to be that unselfish. He needs to start being a jerk out there and shoot the puck more. Absolutely.
- [54:36]
Max Bolman
San Jose, I want to get more overtime. I learned this today. They are tied for the most overtime wins in the National Hockey League with the Carolina Hurricanes and the Anaheim Ducks. So I guess you could argue if San Jose is also a team that probably ideally would pick in the top five again, but they're knocking on the door and hey, when they go to overtime. Good things seem to happen for them.
- [54:56]
Mark Lazarus
The San Jose sharks are the NHL's version of the Chicago Bears. I still don't think they're very good, but man, they're fun as hell. And I hope this ride just keeps going because it's pretty crazy right now what they've been able to do.
- [55:07]
Max Bolman
Caleb Williams is a Macklin Celebrini.
- [55:10]
Mark Lazarus
I know he's not. He's Macklin Celebrini is great all the time and Caleb Williams is just like pulling two amazing throws out of his backside with 30 seconds to go. But it's fun as hell, man.
- [55:20]
Max Bolman
It is fun.
- [55:21]
Mark Lazarus
The Bears are really good team and I'm enjoying it.
- [55:24]
Max Bolman
I'm like the opposite of a Bears fan and I have to say, I mean, Ben Johnson was in Detroit for so long.
- [55:28]
Mark Lazarus
That's right.
- [55:29]
Max Bolman
I think I have the impulse to really want to not like him because he's in a division rival, but there's still something about Ben Johnson that I think.
- [55:37]
Mark Lazarus
I feel like it's funny because it's an interesting comparison. In the NHL, I guess in the NFL you bring in a coach and it can single handedly change your team. It really does take one guy because the coach has his fingerprints on literally every single snap of the ball. He has, yes. In hockey, I think Barry Trots is really the only guy who is able to have that kind of an impact where he would come in and just fundamentally alter a team's DNA on day one. Most hockey coaches can't do that. It's kind of interesting to see the difference in the two sports.
- [56:06]
Max Bolman
And I think the dominance of football in sports culture in the United States and that effect with football coaches is a big reason why coaching tenures in every sport, and particularly in hockey, have gotten so short. Because I think we expect that from coaches when they come in. And we expect that we're going to be able to like see night and day difference, not just in the first, like, you know, month that you got that adrenaline rush, but like, oh, it's a year and nothing's different. Yeah. The players are the same players.
- [56:31]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, yeah. No, it's true. In every sport we see that and see it in baseball, we see it in basketball ball. Nobody has any patience anymore for a learning curve because in the NFL you can do it right away.
- [56:40]
Max Bolman
As I say that, I do have a story publishing on the Athletic Monday about what a difference Todd McClellan has made for the Red Wings in one year since.
- [56:46]
Mark Lazarus
Good coach. He's a good coach.
- [56:47]
Max Bolman
He is he has a good coach. He's got a lot of presence. I think it does kind of have a little bit more of that, that style of effect. Let's close things out with the Calgary Flames.
- [56:55]
Mark Lazarus
Laz, last and least.
- [56:57]
Max Bolman
Last and least. I feel bad for the Calgary Flames because I feel like they're, they're in this kind of purgatory and maybe that's what we want to get them because I feel like that's their way out, is they, they need to get out of purgatory, they need to bottom out and then they can become interesting again.
- [57:12]
Mark Lazarus
They need. What I want to give them is a robust market for Rasmus, Anderson and Nazem Kadri. And you know, to make sure that there's still kind of talk about, you read CJ's Trade Board and you know, maybe Anderson wants to resign. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's. You got to jump start this thing. The new arena is coming in a couple of years and Anderson's exactly the kind of guy that teams are looking for at the deadline. You know, he's a right shot, he's physical, plays a ton of minutes. Kadri might not be scoring at his usual pace, but that's a proven player performer. He had two amazing runs with Colorado. This is a very productive player who can bring a great second line center on a playoff team. Calgary has to maximize the value out of those and given how weak the market is this year, they might be able to actually do it. Yeah.
- [57:54]
Max Bolman
Cadre in particular feels like there are multiple teams out there that there might be a second line center away from, especially in a wide open Eastern Conference. If you could add him to a couple of those teams. Massive difference maker. Minnesota, I mean, I know they've exhausted quite a lot of capital now, but if you could find a way to get Nazem Kadri in there, all of a sudden I start to think a little bit differently about the Wild's chances of coming out of that.
- [58:15]
Mark Lazarus
Kadri is this year's Brock Nelson. Right. He's the perfect guy. You just slot right in and you know he's going to prove he's going to work.
- [58:20]
Max Bolman
He's done it before and maybe he'll do it again. That is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. You check back tomorrow for our World Juniors preview with Scott, Corey and I. We'll talk to you then.
- [58:35]
Mark Lazarus
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- [59:36]
Mark Lazarus
If.
- [59:37]
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