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- [00:00]
Scott Wheeler
Think Verizon is expensive? Think again.
- [00:03]
Max Bultman
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- [00:04]
Corey Pronman
Or T mobile bill to a Verizon.
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Max Bultman
Store today and we'll give you a better deal. So bring us your bill, walk in running, hogo, sticking teleport if you can.
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Corey Pronman
Ride on the back of a rollerblading.
- [00:13]
Scott Wheeler
Yak or fly in on the wings of a majestic falcon.
- [00:16]
Max Bultman
Any way, you can bring your AT and T or T mobile bill to.
- [00:19]
Corey Pronman
A Verizon store today and we'll give.
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Scott Wheeler
You a better deal on the best.
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Max Bultman
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Scott Wheeler
Mobile bill in the name of the.
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Max Bultman
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Chris Peters
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Scott Wheeler
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Chris Peters
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Corey Pronman
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Max Bultman
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- [01:30]
Corey Pronman
This is the athletic hockey show prospect. Hey everybody, Max Boltman here alongside the Athletics, Scott Wheeler and Corey Promman as well as Flow Hockey's Chris Peters. For another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series, we got a fun show on tap today. Both Scott and Corey new 2026 draft rankings out. We're going to get to that in a minute, but first, Corey, you had an interesting article this week and it was trade targets from teams who are contending that we expect to be buyers and the prospects that they could deal. From my first thought on it, that is a whole lot of Detroit and Montreal, right?
- [02:14]
Scott Wheeler
And I think what's going to be interesting is obviously these are two teams that have had a lot of draft picks the last few years. These are teams that have basically been in a rebuild basically coming into this season. We thought of them as rebuilders and now we've kind of seen like this, this shift in the Atlantic Division where you have them and Buffalo in a playoff mix right now. And I think there's going to be some real strong internal debates within that management group in both Detroit and Montreal of are they ready to make the big step? Are they ready to push the chips in here and move a major young asset? I'd be on the fence for both. I think both have looked like really good teams this year. Both look like legit playoff teams. I don't know if I would consider either of them true contenders in, in this current year. I mean, that being said, I probably only really would call Colorado, Carolina, Tampa as like the, the no doubt contenders and you have like a second tier. Maybe it's, you know, Edmonton, Vegas, whatever. I'm not sure that they would be in that kind of elite group for me, but I think they could be considered good enough or maybe, you know, I have like the premium assets at the top. Top guys like Michael Hage on Montreal or, or Branson Niard or Nate Danielson in Detroit. I don't know if I would move any of those pieces if I was those teams, but the next group I would think about if I was Detroit. You know, I think they have two really good young goalies there. Trey Augustine, Sebastian Kosa. I think they're in a position where they could, you know, float one of those names out there. CO has been very good in the American League this year. Augustine been a dominant college goalie. I think they could try and see what the mark would be like for them. You know, with Montreal they have some good young piece in the American League. Be it defenseman like Adam Mengsham or David Reinbacker. They have, you know, guys, you know, young players like, like Owen Beck, you know, maybe like those level of pieces would be more realistic for them to move. But, but we'll see what, what they decide and if they decide that they think they are going to try and make a real run for it this spring.
- [04:22]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, to me the answer, especially you know, covering Detroit, I think the key is just there's got to be term. I don't see Detroit parting with a Danielson or a brand Sig Nagard for a guy who's going to be around for just one year or even a year or two years. Like those are names you bring up if you can get someone who's young, cost controlled, like can be around a while. Obviously Robert Thomas is the name on Chris Johnson's trade board that I think raised the most eyebrows, at least in that category. And so that stuff's really interesting and there's other kind of factors to consider too, right? I mean, we've talked on this show about how the Red Wings have drafted a lot of similar player types. And while I think there is validity to that criticism, it. It tends to be a valuable one. Right? Like, those are the kind of prospects, you know, complete centers and wingers with edge and compete. Like, you could see how that could be a position. They can deal from strength, Chris.
- [05:10]
Chris Peters
I think they can deal from strength, but I also think, you know, if you're going to be making these. These types of prospect trades, you're looking to make the biggest splash. And like, I think a Danielson potentially could be that. I think I agree with you. It's going to have to be something significant. And the Robert Thomas name is one of those out there where it's just like, boy, you know, that's. That's a guy that still has plenty of Runway left in his career. You know, and those. Those are the types of things you. You look for. You know, it. It always seems like, you know, prospect trades, the ones that. Those might not be the guys that you get super excited about if you're a fan. Like the. The brand said knee guards and Daniels, but you probably should because they don't move all that easily and usually not without a good deal on. On top of it. So, you know, it's. It's a really interesting time for some of these teams, too. But I think because of the surplus that you're working from, it does make it a little bit easier. And I mean, Detroit has depth in various positions of value, which is. Is a great place to be. I think you could say the same thing about Montreal. It's going to be fascinating to see what the Minnesota Wild are able to do with. With, you know, players in multiple premium positions that should have increased their value over the last year, plus, So a lot of intrigue there. And, you know, looking at Corey's list that he had on, on the Athletic, I mean, there's a lot of. I think there are exciting names on that list, and if you can secure one of those players in a trade, I think it makes for a much more exciting trade and something you're a little bit more, you know, you're a little less reluctant to part with when you see that potential for that return.
- [06:52]
Scott Wheeler
When I was going through this exercise, I was talking to our insider Chris Johnson to get his idea of who the buyers would be this year. And one of the reasons it was proliferated with Montreal and Detroit wasn't part because They've had a lot of picks and have made some good selections with those picks. But the other guys, the other team, sorry that Chris qualified as buyers. Edmonton, Dallas, Vegas, Carolina to an extent. But you know, Colorado, these are all teams that have pretty much dealt all of their futures. Like these are not teams that have high picks. These are not teams that have made any high picks really in recent years. So as part due how much Montreal and Detroit had, but also due to how little some of these other buyers really have left in their pipeline as draft picks in 2026, you, you talk about for those teams going into the 2027 first in a lot of cases to trade a first round pick. So I think with your Montreal and Detroit, you may not feel as leveraged to trade your premium young guys because I feel like even those other contenders don't really even have that next level of asset really to trade.
- [08:00]
Max Bultman
So.
- [08:01]
Scott Wheeler
So maybe you can have at least a little bit of wiggle room to not trade maybe your most valuable young assets if you want to get a good young player at the deadline.
- [08:09]
Max Bultman
Do you think, Max, that Carter Bear is in a similar conversation still to what Danielson and Nagard Brandsik Nagard represent or would they be more inclined to move him for a rental type? He hasn't had a great year is.
- [08:24]
Corey Pronman
Why I don't think they would do it for a rental type still. But, but I do think those other two are a tier above him as a prospect.
- [08:30]
Max Bultman
Right?
- [08:30]
Corey Pronman
I mean, I think there's just a, there's a proven pro element to it that always makes you a little more valuable. Proximity to the NHL makes you more valuable. But I just don't think that the Red Wings are a team that, certainly not until they're even further along and more cemented that you're going to see make super expensive rental plays. You know, there are other ways to do this. You know that you can, you can trade your first round pick, for example, now I don't think for a rental, but maybe for something shorter. Like if there's a guy with this year plus next or something, I think that starts to be more of a conversation. But I don't see him giving up like a guy that they liked enough to draft at the, I forget if I think he was the 13th overall pick for, you know, one playoff run. There's, there's, there's risk to all of this though, right? I mean you in your backyard, Scott, like the Toronto Maple Leafs are without what could be a top 10 pick and Frazier Mitten, who is Red hot for the Boston Bruins right now. And it is a reminder that, man, sometimes it feels good. And they got a guy with term, they got Brandon Carlo who was a second Paradis with term, and boy, is that a trade that I'm sure they're regretting right now.
- [09:29]
Max Bultman
And, and Scott Laughton With 50% retention at 1.25 or whatever, they're paying Scott Laughton, which for Scott Laughton and the impact that he's had on the Leafs is, is obviously good value, but it's not good enough if you're going to miss the playoffs with both of those players as important pieces. And they're not just missing a potential top 10 pick this year. They've, they dealt two first rounders for those two players. So they're also without their 20, 27 first round pick already. So it's, you start to dig that hole. And if you' the cream of the crop, if you're not Florida, what Florida has been recently, what Tampa has been recently, the teams that have spent and spent and spent the Vegas Gold Knights, like, if you're going to spend and spend and spend, you better be damn sure that your NHL roster is not just a playoff team, but a contending team. Because then when you hit that cliff and you're without any draft capital, you're without any notable prospects, and now that Easton Cowan has graduated, the Leafs have virtually absolutely nothing coming, right? So it's a, that's, that's when you're, you start to look, okay, we're, we're in a dangerous, dangerous situation. And that's when Auston Matthews and William Meander and the stars of the team start to ask questions and it, it can get pretty toxic pretty quickly. And I think we're already kind of moving in that direction here in Toronto. So you, if you're gonna, if you're the Detroit Red Wings and you're gonna pull that trigger on, on Brand Segni Guard or whoever it is, Trey Augustine, you better be sure that you're getting a player who can actually move the needle back because guys like Carlo and Laughton don't necessarily do that. And the Leafs have gone to that well over and over again, right? Shen Foligno, they've spent first second round picks on these guys over the years and it just has not made the kind of impact that you'd hope for when you're using that kind of an asset. And then you watch teams like Montreal go and acquire for basically what the Leaf spent on Carlo and Laughton go out and acquire Noah Dobson, right Who's, who's an actual needle mover. So it's, it's a tricky game at the deadline that these teams play and, and the Red Wings are like the Red Wings and the Sabers. These are teams that are just tasting this for the first time in a long time now. And it's, it can be appealing. Yes.
- [11:37]
Scott Wheeler
Yes, Max. I do think the one thing Detroit has to figure out this trade deadline season is they don't got to make like a firm decision, but I think they got to have some idea where the goaltending is going to, just because Sebastian Kosa, their 15th overall pick about four or so five years ago, is going to be eligible for waivers this coming fall. So, you know, you've, you've seen Kosa for a while. You've seen him, you know, seen Augustine. Obviously, they've been getting some good goaltending in Detroit recently. What do you think they're going to do with the young goalie situation? If it comes down to we've got to pick one of these two kids at the deadline here and we're going to move the other one or at least think about moving one of them.
- [12:17]
Corey Pronman
The thing is, with the way their timelines are structured, I don't know that they do have to pick like Kosa will be in the NHL next year. I fully expect, like you said, he's going to be not able to skip waivers anymore, no longer be waiver exempt in Augustine will be coming up turning pro, assuming that they can get him signed and then he can start in Grand Rapids. So there's a clear path to playing time for him in the ahl. Kosa could back up John Gibson, who will have one year left on his deal, and they'll get an idea for what that is. The bigger pressure point is going to be whether to resign John Gibson a year from now, who's been excellent for them for the last two months after a rocky start. So it's probably a good problem to have, I think, but I think that it's more a year out of where the big decision is, and I think that decision is more so on Gibson a year from now and where they want to go with that.
- [13:02]
Scott Wheeler
If you were, if any of you were Augustine's advisor right now, would you be advising him to sign up with Detroit this summer?
- [13:09]
Corey Pronman
He is the hometown kid. I mean, to me, when I look at Sebastian Kosi, he's a really talented goal, he's having a great season, so are a lot of the goalies in Grand Rapids. So that tells you a That's a good environment to be in. But B, I don't think that if you're Trey Augustine, you're overly frightened that you're behind the next big thing, that kind of deal. Like, I think Trey Augustine is a competitor. He has proven at every single level that he wins. Like, I get it. Like, it's, it's less of a clear path to playing time than he would get in probably 18 to 20 other markets. I mean, there's certainly goalies, like, I wouldn't want to sign with the New York Rangers, New York Islanders that have Vezina guys for the next five, six, seven years, you would think, at least. But I don't know that it's so solidified with Kosa yet either. Like, this is not a guy that he has got great pedigree, but he's not proven it yet in the NHL to make me think, oh, I'm never going to have the net there.
- [13:56]
Scott Wheeler
The situation is kind of similar to when Buffalo had Devin Levi. They just traded for him in the Sam Reinhardt deal, and then they had Eric Portillo, and Portillo basically forced his way out and saying wasn't interested in trying to battle for. I type with similar.
- [14:11]
Corey Pronman
Augustine is a local kid. Like, I think that matters here, too.
- [14:14]
Scott Wheeler
Yep. No, I understand. And I think it could work. I just think it's, it's, it's something that's hanging in the background for sure that I think that's a question the organization has to feel really comfortable about, because if we, if they don't sign him this summer, then things start getting awkward.
- [14:29]
Corey Pronman
Ravensburg and committing to Michigan State this week.
- [14:32]
Chris Peters
Yes.
- [14:32]
Corey Pronman
I think Detroit should take as a really promising indication that they can get Trey Augustine to turn pro.
- [14:38]
Scott Wheeler
Yes, I agree with that.
- [14:40]
Max Bultman
If I'm Trey, I probably see myself as an equal to Kosa. Like, I, I, I'm putting myself in his shoes. What, what more does he probably feel he has to show? And yet his advisors need to get a pulse quickly on whether the Red Wings see him as an equal to Kosa, because if they don't, that's when things, I think, start to get hairy from a contract standpoint.
- [15:02]
Scott Wheeler
I'm sure they'll tell him that, whether they believe it or not. I'm sure they'll tell him whatever they, he wants to hear.
- [15:08]
Corey Pronman
They're both, like, good assets, though, at this deadline, like, to the, to the broader point, like, if it's the difference between getting you the guy you want and not, it's a good position to be in to Know that you can trade one of those guys and it's not the same as you know it would have been if you didn't have the other. And you're giving up your, your best shot at a goalie of the future if you have two kind of equal ones.
- [15:24]
Scott Wheeler
And there's nothing wrong with having two goalies. I mean pretty much everyone in the league, there's very few 55, 60 game starters anymore. There's. There's nothing wrong with having two really good goalies.
- [15:35]
Corey Pronman
And I think that's where the Minnesota Wild situation is interesting. I don't know if you saw Chris Johnston's Trade Board 5.0 today. Jesper Walstedt is on that list and they are one of those teams, Corey that has that duo that, that you would covet. You have Philip Gustafson and now you have this rising Jesper Wallstead. We know the Minnesota Wild are all in. Charlie Stramel is on your list of prospects who could be dealt and their need is pretty obvious. They need a second line center. I was very surprised to see Jesper Walstedt out there and I've heard about this before.
- [16:06]
Scott Wheeler
CJ's article, it raises two questions. One is where you stand on Walsted because he's been a top prospect, a very likable prospect for years. When he turned pro north he was pro and SHL really good in Sweden. But his pro time North America at the American League level was very up and down. And then this year he's been excellent in the NHL splitting starts with Phil Gustafson. So I think first you got to figure out where you stand on Wal said, I think he's pretty good. I think he's probably a legit tandem starter in the NHL. Is he like a stud number one long term? Maybe, maybe not. I think that's still an open question. And then the second question is, you know, do we love Phil Gustafson that much? I mean, I think he's good. I don't know if I would be like super comfortable making him the guy without any competition going forward. So I think though I think that's really where I have some issues with it. It's not that I think that Wallstead is considered just a decent trade piece and I'd be okay losing him, but I'm not sure. Gusison. I feel so comfortable for years on end with either. So I get where they're coming from. They're trying to go all in here. They're trying to become a legit contender. I would guess Strammel to me makes more sense than Wallstead right now as, as a trade piece at least. But it's tough too because I feel like he would fit really well on that team next year as well. And then, you know, we mentioned those contenders I said earlier, like, is Minnesota at the moment a clear top three, top four team in the league? I still would have issues getting them quite to that level. Do any of you guys feel a mafia or anything?
- [17:48]
Max Bultman
I just think if there's a center out, like they, they clearly need this. They need Robert Thomas, frankly. Like he, he would move the needle there maybe more than else. Just because you're not going to win a Stanley cup with Danila Yurov and you go down the list, Eric Sinek, like those guys as your, as your top guys down the middle. But if it's not, I would, I would be pretty reluctant to trade Jesper. But if it's, if it's a center, I don't know, like if it's a true, true top six center, I think suddenly they're in that class with. Not with Colorado, but with Vegas, with Dallas, like that, that feels like the, the piece that's, that's missing.
- [18:28]
Chris Peters
Yeah. Yeah.
- [18:29]
Scott Wheeler
If you, if you get Robert Thomas, something like that, then everything I just said goes out the window kind of thing because then that's the wall line.
- [18:35]
Chris Peters
Right?
- [18:35]
Corey Pronman
Like you're not, you're not getting Robert Thomas for Stramo, but you might for Strammel and Wallstead or, or Wallstead and something else.
- [18:41]
Scott Wheeler
So yeah, I, that changed things a little bit. I think you just don't want to set yourself up for Minnesota where Quinn Hughes is a pending free agent, and then you'd get a rental center for a Premium Peaks and then you kind of hope it all works. And if it doesn't, things start to look pretty bleak.
- [18:54]
Corey Pronman
We talked about TRO check for them on the Monday show and I think that'.
- [18:58]
Max Bultman
Fit.
- [18:58]
Corey Pronman
But there's. Even if you wanted to go one cost tier down, like I think even Braden Shen would, he's not had a great year, but at least would give them a little bit of. Of a boost there.
- [19:07]
Max Bultman
Cadre too. Cadre's contract is tricky, but yeah, yeah, I do think Gustafson's excellent. Like Gustafson's been one of the most consistent goalies in the league over the last three or four years. Like, I do think Gustafson is capable. He's a good player. If they were to move, move Wallstead.
- [19:23]
Chris Peters
The other thing though too is if you are the Wild and you do Move Wallstead. What do you do if the goalie position, at the backup position, you're one, you're one injury away from, you know, Gustafson not being the guy. And so there you look at down in the AHL right now. Samuel Halavi would be the natural call up. He'll be Slovakia's goalie at the Olympics, but has not had the level of production and, and really, quite frankly, the Iowa Wild as a, as a whole have not had the level of production. You know, they're, they're in last place in the league and you know, that's a tough place to put him in. I, I think Halawi could, you know, be a stopgap. But I, I mean, you know, you think about a couple years ago when Thatcher Demko goes down, the Canucks have to go to Archer Silovs in his first, you know, kind of NHL action, you know, with, with, with limited experience. Yo, Halava has limited experience there too. So I, I do think that, that, that what's next after that because, you know, then what kind of assets are you going to have to spend on potentially adding a backup goalie as a rental or something of that nature?
- [20:26]
Scott Wheeler
I mean, I think one of the most common themes I've seen across the National Hockey League this season is so many good teams on paper don't have enough goaltending. So I'd be really scared of trading a guy I think is an actual legit goalie.
- [20:44]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, it's a great article. A lot more to dig into there. We're going to take a quick break, but first you listen to us. Now we want to hear from you. We're asking you to fill out a quick survey about you and your podcast habits by going to the athletic.com survey 26. Three lucky entries will win a $100Amazon gift card. So whether you're a longtime listener or a new one, we want your feedback. Again, go to the athletic.com survey26. That's the athletic.com survey26 links also in our episode description. Thank you. We'll be right back with some draft rankings. Now that the holidays are over, you might be feeling like you've got a big spending hangover. The drinks, the holiday food, the gifts, it all adds up. Luckily, Mint Mobile is here to help you cut back on overspending on wireless this January with 50% off unlimited premium wireless. Look, I don't want to badmouth my previous carrier, but there's really no comparison to what I get with Mint Mobile.
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Scott Wheeler
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Max Bultman
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Scott Wheeler
Except Discover in a little place like this?
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Max Bultman
I don't think so. Jennifer oh yeah, huh?
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Scott Wheeler
Discover is accepted where I like to shop.
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Max Bultman
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Chris Peters
Right?
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Scott Wheeler
So we shouldn't get the parachute pants. These are making a comeback, I think. Discover is accepted at 99% of places.
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Corey Pronman
That take credit cards nationwide, based on.
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Scott Wheeler
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- [24:05]
Corey Pronman
We are back and we've got new draft rankings. Scott and Corey, both in the last week or so and you have the same top four mix but a different order and a different tiering as well. So I want to start here. Corey we've joked about doing as McKenna turns, he's at number four on your latest ranking. Penn State has played pretty well of late, and I think that's relevant. But McKenna sits at number four here, talk me through kind of where you're at at Gavin McKenna, just past mid.
- [24:30]
Scott Wheeler
Season, excellent player coming off arguably I think his best weekend of his freshman college season. He was really good against a really good team in Wisconsin, including a hat trick performance in the first game. I think you, you really like what you've been seeing lately. I still think there are some stuff about his game that you don't really love. He's very perimeter, not very physical, good, not elite skater. These are all things that are worrisome, but the he's the most skilled player in the draft, you know, elite brain. I think you really love his offensive projection to the NHL. He's going to put a ton of points around our first power play. I think you're wondering about certain other elements of his game. Is he a play driver, even strength? Is he a guy who can really take over in the playoffs? Those are going to be some minor questions as we get towards the draft, but I think he's still absolutely in the conversation to be number one pick. And that was going to be a common theme when I'm going through my draft rankings. I feel like this was a very tight group and I felt like there was a lot of players with a lot of strong arguments to be either a little bit up or a little bit down my board. I felt like it was very congested. Among the more congested top five or six players that I've seen in recent years. It kind of reminds me a little bit of the Owen power draft a little bit. And you know, I had, I've had McKenna at one at different points of the year. I had Titan Lawrence at number one previously in my rank about a little over a month ago. Now I have Keaton Verhoff for North Dakota as number one. You know, in the power draft I had, I think I had Veneers Genther and Luke Hughes at one at different points before ultimately settling on power. And I kind of see that that's what this year's draft. It's a lot of guys who are really close and you can make really good arguments. Like I have that top seven, top eight are so congested for me in terms of like how, how close they are and how I can move guys up and down. And it reflects the conversations I've been having with people around the league. I've talked to scouts who have McKenna Fairhoff at number one. I've talked to scouts who have Carson Carls or Chase Rita one. I've talked to scouts who have Al Smits or Ty and Lawrence at one. It's, it's really, I think going to set be a draft with a lot of really great debates and obviously it's going to be centered around McKenna just because of the profile, the high profile and a long history of scoring for this player. And I wouldn't question anybody who has him, you know, at 2 or 1 or whatever, or even quite frankly as low as 5 or 6. I think that's this kind of draft.
- [27:04]
Corey Pronman
Scott's got him at 2 and I think it's interesting, Scott, because you have him behind Ivar Stenberg and to me that one after the world Juniors makes a lot of sense. They're both wingers of a, of a fairly similar profile and we saw him at the same event and Stenberg was extremely noticeable. So that, that becomes a fairly logical thing to do. The tough part is ranking I think McKenna against some of the top defensemen. And like Corey said, he's got Verhoff number one. You've got a tear gap between Stenberg and McKenna and then Keaton Verhoff. I don't know if it's a huge tear gap. It's obviously 22 verse 3 still on your list. But talk me through kind of how you went about comparing McKenna and the talent, the skill, the scoring winger to some of those big right shot defensemen. Chase Reed, Keaton Verhoff.
- [27:46]
Max Bultman
I do still think that McKenna and Stenberg are the top two prospects in the draft. And I've come to that conclusion just because I haven't been fully convinced by any of the defensemen. I think Albert Smith is awesome. He's 6 3, he's talented, he can skate, he's made some highlight reel plays this year. He's playing 20 minutes a night against men. I'm sure he'll play well at the Olympics. I'll be interested to see in of a role for that Latvian blue line which doesn't have names that people on this side of the pond will be familiar with. Chase Reed, same thing. Like the player, don't think he's an elite prospect, don't think he's the kind of player that I'd step to the stage and take first or second, all second overall. And Keaton, I've just never been able to quite get there on the decision making at times and on the feet at times. And that has held him back. Like I, I think those three defensemen are closer to each other than they are necessarily to Stenberg and McKenna. Like I just, I haven't quite been able to get that group of Six, seven names that Corey and NHL scouts talk about in the same kind of conversation. It still feels to me like there's a bit of a gap and I think it's been solidified by the way that both of those players have played since the world juniors. Denberg has gone back and continued to produce and perform in the SHL. And McKenna has played his best hockey of the year a couple across three weekends. Now, just for, for context, that's six goals, 11 points in his last five games. He's got 24 shots in that period. He's plus six in that period and people wanted to see him start to perform more and drive more at 5 on 5. And they've swept Wisconsin, Minnesota and Notre Dame. It's, it's been a really, really high level for McKenna here and there's still, he's still an imperfect player and he still needs to work harder off the puck and he still doesn't sort of empty the tank to get to the wall and win battles and all of that. But those are two highly, highly, highly gifted offensive players and I just don't think any of those 3D have screamed I'm a stud number one, like I'm Erasmus Darlene. I'm, I'm a true, true, no doubt top of the lineup player. I think they're all going to be very, very good players. I'm not sure there's a, a future Norris Trophy winner, that kind of player in there. And as a result I would lean towards the premium first line winger.
- [30:09]
Scott Wheeler
I don't disagree with that assessment. I just disagree on the value of the player. I guess, like, I think you're clearly right. I don't think any of these D or Raspa stalling or anything of anything of that nature. I just think that if I can project a guy as a 22, 23 minute, a night defenseman in the NHL who will score, who will play tough matchups, who will play heavy minutes in the pow, you know, in the playoffs for a team, both special teams, I, I think that's still a really valuable player over a 511 winger who, I think I have some questions still on both of them are either going to be like 100 point, 90 point wingers in the NHL. I think they could be, but I'm not convinced that's for sure gonna happen. And, and that's why I think it's closer for me. I can still. I don't think it's unreasonable to have Stenberg or McKenna at 1. I just would have issues saying that there's a clear delineation there. I, I don't neither of them are elite skaters, you know. You know it's, there's some risk on that projection there. Even if they hit what we think they're probably going to become, I don't know if that player type is the most valuable. The 511 scoring winger would.
- [31:16]
Max Bultman
Do you like Stenberg and McKenna more now than you liked Tim Stutzla and do you like any of those D more now than you liked Jake Sanderson? And then I guess my question would be would you take Tim Stutzla or Jake Sanderson?
- [31:30]
Scott Wheeler
I probably would like Stutzlove more at the time than I liked either of those wingers. Just because he's 6061, elite skater, competitive. Like I think that player type was just more valuable and well and I was off on Sanderson but I think Jake Sanderson is like a monster. Like he's a top 10, maybe top five defenseman in the league. So like, I mean I don't think any of those guys are close but I also didn't think Sanderson was gonna have this level of offense when he got there. But I think with the how good a skater he is, none of these defensemen in this draft have that level of skating. Like he's a better skater than Smith, he's a better skater than Verhoff, better skater than Carl's or Reed. Probably doesn't have Reed's level of offense but probably would take him over those defensemen. Yeah.
- [32:13]
Corey Pronman
Corey, what you said there about the position of value I'm kind of sticking with and I want to get all three of your thoughts here but I'm going to start with Chris. Like if you go back to that analog of the Owen Power draft and I gave you Chris Owen Power, Dylan Genther today, I feel like the consensus might be more toward Genther right now. But am I, am I off on that?
- [32:32]
Chris Peters
No, I, I would think that you're right. I mean I just don't think that, you know, as, as good as Owen Power is and he is a good player, I don't think he's nearly the difference maker that Genther is. And, and certainly, you know, I mean just you look at this argument here. What I keep, what I've come back to a lot over the course of this draft year is like I think they're all really good players. We don't have a number one pick in this draft. We really don't. I, I, I don't, you know, I, in, in relative to the the years past where I felt like, you know, I think a lot of these guys are going to make an impact at the NHL level. I think they're going to be good players, but like, you know, and somebody will go number one. I'm not super excited about any of them. And that's, and that's not a great place to be, especially if you're a fan of a team that's in this kind of rebuilding stage. I think they'll help. You know, probably McKenna is the most exciting, but really at the, at the, at the end of it, there's, there's a ton of questions about him and been having those conversations. I talked to guys that were at the four point game against Wisconsin and they still didn't like him. You know, they were like, ah, yeah, okay, that was fine. Like, you know, and like that's, that's, that's not encouraging. It's not. People felt that way because they felt like it's the same game we see all the time. And, and that's, and, and sometimes there are points and sometimes there are not. And so that's, that's a really interesting thing. Now I, I would, I would push back a little bit on that because I do think that there was absolutely, and has been more. Get up.
- [34:04]
Scott Wheeler
That second goal he scored was so sick. Like that was.
- [34:08]
Chris Peters
Yeah, absolutely. So, so, yeah, I mean like he makes, he still can do spectacular things and I think that that's in the end maybe where he's going to start going. But yeah, I mean to me you look at that, the Genther power comparison, I mean, you go, there are so many different drafts that we can go back and forth to.
- [34:27]
Scott Wheeler
I think Slafkovsky draft reminds me of that one too, a little bit.
- [34:30]
Chris Peters
Yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. No, so I mean, you know, so in the end, you know, they're going to be good players to be had here, but it is kind of a tough place to be if you are one of the fans of a team that's really mired in the muck right now. Because I don't like, I don't think Stenberg is a guy that pulls you out of that. I don't think that that's, that McKenna pulls you out of that. So those are some things that I'm, I'm, I'm uncertain about.
- [34:54]
Scott Wheeler
I think your assessment is mostly shared in the league, but I think if there's one player that at least some corners of the league feel has distinguished himself, it would be Stenberg. That they think that you, I think if you're sold that this offense is going to be like an 80, 90 plus point guy who's going to, who competes hard and you know, can win battles against pros. Like I think even at 511 without elite feet like that's still a really, really exciting player. Potential difference maker at the next level. But I think there's some open questions there. Like I think despite his record setting season and his great world juniors, I still think you can look at him and not be completely sold. It's going to translate at least to the highest echelons. Like to be a difference maker like you basically got to do what the Kucherov and Marner do on a consistent basis, right? So it's like that's, it's a high bar and he could and he could get there.
- [35:47]
Chris Peters
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- [37:05]
Corey Pronman
Corey, you mentioned all the players you've had at one this year and on the previous list it was Tynan Lawrence. He's dropped not only down to five on the list but into a different tier. And I know you talked about the number of guys that you could see going number one. I'm sure he's one of those six, seven, eight that you were mentioning. But just talk with he obviously made the transition from the USHL to bu quieter. Start from him there. Like what has that jump looked like.
- [37:27]
Scott Wheeler
In your eyes, he was really quiet those first few weekends with bu. Thought he really struggled with the physicality of college hockey. Obviously coming in a 17 year old in the middle of the season, right into the conference games, it's a big jump for 17 year old. I thought this past weekend against Providence where he scored a nice goal, but in general I thought, you know, he, he played big minutes and I even thought he was impacting the plate, even strength. And he looks more comfortable this past weekend against a good team. But just, you know, he's, he struggled. And I think you get data like that, just as we did with McKenna and, and you say, well, this is data at a higher level. You got to do the same thing with Lawrence even in over seven or eight games. But that being said, as I said before, it's really close. Like my 2, 3, 4 was I think Stenberg, Chase, Reach, McKenna. I basically think those three for me are like, are nearly a three way tie really in terms of how I rate those players as NHL prospects. And then if I went like one small nudge lower, Lawrence would be there at five. Like I still, I, I trying to emphasize this over and over again. It's really close. Like I could see if Lawrence goes on some sort of tear here and he looks really, really impressive in the next two months, I absolutely can see him just get right back up there. But I mean it's hard to take, you look what those four guys are doing, how talented they are, how productive they are. It's hard, would be hard to take the guy with one goal and zero assist in college right now over him, despite his tremendous junior career. And I think just a really good pro profile, being one of the best skaters in the draft, a highly competitive centerman, you know. And what's interesting too is I think when we made that, when he made that jump, the thought was, oh, he's the best center in the draft. If he has a really good start here, he could go number one, number two, whatever kind of thing, he hasn't done very well. And Caleb Malhotra at Brantford is just killing it right now. And I don't think it's a given that Lawrence is going to be the first center picked in the draft. There are scouts I know who have it the other way around who have Malhotra, top three, top four, whatever.
- [39:28]
Max Bultman
Like, I think those two are very close for me.
- [39:31]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, we, we all kind of see when, when June rolls around, centers in D, you know, make the world go around. And it Wouldn't surprise me if both of those guys go top five, to be quite honest. But I think for right now, I don't know if either have a lead enough offense at this current stage to get there. But all Malhotra is doing is scoring and scoring a lot and helping a really good team win a lot of games. But yeah, for Lawrence, that's kind of why I kind of, I moved him down a little bit.
- [39:59]
Max Bultman
The important part for, for Malhotra too over the last couple of months here has been that even after they added, even after they brought in Jet Luchenko, another center, they've got Jake o', Brien, a center. Adam Banache has centered, they've moved other guys to the wing to accommodate him. His role in the, on the power play has not been reduced. His role in that lineup has not been reduced. His minutes have not been cut. He's still a go to guy on the PK that has spoke volumes. Like he's playing with three or four or five of the best forwards in the ohl, the best forwards in junior hockey, frankly. And on most nights he's as impactful, if not the most impactful of that bunch. So I thought I. There were a lot of people who thought his production might start to dip once they added Luchenko in particular. And that just, that just hasn't happened.
- [40:46]
Scott Wheeler
We look at his size, skating profile, offense, like, I mean he's at the.
- [40:50]
Max Bultman
Same, he's got to get stronger, he's.
- [40:53]
Scott Wheeler
Easily as good as Rondell and right. Like he's got to take the same converse, same conversation. Right.
- [41:00]
Max Bultman
I, I had a question at Daynoyev, Caleb versus Caleb question in my mailbag this week and I think Danoya who went fourth and Malhotra are very comparable prospects. Now Caleb won QMJHL playoff MVP and led his team in the most important moments. And that's Danoya that is. But Malhotra's got an opportunity to do that and they could both win, win their championships and play in the Memorial cup and it could be a very similar path. Those two, those two kids.
- [41:25]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, let me stick on the center here then because Ilya Morozov was a guy that was really high on Central's North American list. And this is a player who for Miami of Ohio like flies a little bit under the radar. But Corey, you've got him pretty high on yours up at number 17. Scott, you've got him at 28. Would love to hear the, the two different viewpoints on that one. Corey, if you want to start, reminds.
- [41:47]
Scott Wheeler
Me a lot of A player we mentioned earlier in this show in Charlie Stramble where he's this big, highly competitive athletic centerman, he's got good offensive skills. I don't know if his pure scoring is ever really going to be, you know, a true selling point in his game. But Morozov is a player who's absolutely driving, getting a ton of interest from NHL people. There's, you know, a lot of scouts going in to watch every single one of Miami's games to see a 6, 3 center who can skate, who's a first line center on University of Miami, playing real minutes as a, as a 17 year old. You know this. It's an, he has a really exciting profile and I think he's got a really good chance to be a lottery pick when it's all said and done. You know, you're hoping for like a really hard second line center or like a really high end third line center. I think when it's all said and done.
- [42:44]
Max Bultman
I've just worried a little bit about the offense. Like he's got one assist in his last 10 games dating back to the first weekend in December. He, his minutes have been reduced a little bit there. He's now I think like eighth or ninth on that team in scoring after he was first and second through the first couple of months of the season. It just hasn't, there hasn't been a ton of offense of late and that has made it harder for me as the conversation around him grows to put him in that sort of top 10, top 15, top 20 tier like I, I had, I had like a top 17 on my last list and I, I could have debated him anywhere from sort of 18 to 28, which is where I had him. But getting into that, that next, like I just haven't seen enough from him to get him into that, that sort of top 17 group that I have. He's a very good player. But I think about him and Suvanto kind of the same way where it's like how much offense are these kids really going to have? Same with Jack Nesbit a year ago when Nesbitt went 12th, like just is there going to be enough offense there to justify taking him in the, in the teens of the draft or even closer to like Nesbit, closer to the top 10 of the draft. And I just, with both him and Suvanto, I haven't quite been able to get there. Even though NHL scouts are talking about them in that range, I see it with Morozov.
- [44:03]
Scott Wheeler
I think Sato's got legit skill like this is a guy who's like power, you know, power juniors. No, no, he doesn't. But neither did like, Lindell. Like, you know, like, I think, like, this is a guy who's like two days away from being 27 eligible, and I think what he's done so far is pretty impressive. His feet are a major issue, though, for me.
- [44:23]
Corey Pronman
Chris, any thoughts on Morozov?
- [44:25]
Chris Peters
Well, you know, I, I think it's, he's such an interesting player because I think that there's anybody that saw him last season could see the, the makings of something, but you could. He never really put it all together in the ushl and you'd say, you know, I remember coming away from that fall classic and just like he was one of the guys that was most talked about, as, you know, even more so than some of the top draft prospects that were there. And so he's, he's. Since then, you know, I've been intrigued to track him and he's been all over the map. And as Scott mentioned, the production has dipped considerably in the last little while here. But I do think that there is an element of environment. You know, Miami is still trying to find their way. They're, they're much better than they have been in years past that. You got to give a ton of credit to them being aggressive and in bringing in Morozov a year early, you know, they didn't necessarily have top players. They desperately needed top of the lineup players. And the fact that he's been able to come in as a younger than true freshman and then able to, to, to do what he's done is really intriguing to me. I think there's a high ceiling on this player. I do think that some of the things have been noticed, deficiencies are absolutely there. But for me, like, I look at this player similar, you know, when my list comes out, will be in a similar range to where Corey is at. And he's a guy that I feel like is only starting to scratch the surface. And those are always tough to, to put in these, in these scenarios in this year's draft class, there are so few things, so few prospects. I'm super confident in that. Players like him, where there's that kind of potential and that ceiling that I, that I see for him. And I do think there's a little more offense here than we've seen so far. I, I, I, I, I have some concerns, but I do think that there's a little bit more to dig out of him. I think he's going to be, you know, A very strong collegiate player next season and then maybe even the season after that, or maybe he's in the ahl. You know, you're not really sure. But, but this is a player that I do think that upside is a bet worth making in that middle of the first round range. And I think a lot of teams are discussing that very thing. As Corey mentioned, there's a lot of guys going out to Oxford and that's been a long time since they've had anybody that anybody wanted to look at. So really, really fascinating to watch that happen every year.
- [46:43]
Corey Pronman
By the time we get to the point where Scott and Corey's finalist comes out, we do a fun article called Promen vs Wheeler where we have the guys kind of, you know, debate really in full their final rankings on players and Morozov may be a guy that we're talking about by then. One guy I am already certain here in late January that we're going to be talking about is Ryan Lynn. And Scott, he's a guy that you have really high on your list at number seven. Corey, you've got him early 20s. I think he's 23 for you. So let's, let's give a little preview for what that Prominen versus Wheeler is going to look like. Scott, I'll let you begin on Ryan Lynn.
- [47:15]
Max Bultman
Yeah, we've already had this conversation on the pod a little bit. I know, but we might be having it three or four times by the time we get there. Look, I just think that Ryan Lynn and what he has shown over the last two years in the WHL has been extremely impressive. I think he's a phenomenal player. He checks outside of not having the sort of elite, elite sort of straight line speed and I think his edges are excellent. Like he surfs extremely well and he pivots extremely well and he, he breaks past that first layer of coverage extremely well. But he's not like a burner going north, south. Outside of that, I think he checks every box. He's got one of the best sticks in the draft. He's one of the more competitive defensemen in the draft. For me, he's one of the smartest players in the draft. For me, he has one of the strongest statistical track records in the draft. I think he's one of the more well rounded players in this class and I think he's going to get hurt by the fact that he's somewhere between 511 and 6ft tall and he's not going to go as high as I have him and. But I don't think we're talking about the Vilihenola or Victor Soderstrom or some, some of these sort of 511d that have gone in the first round in recent years. Boqvist obviously went top 10. Like I think he's a much more complete player at this age than Adam Boqvist was at the same age and has been just as. Every bit as productive. It hasn't been as, as maybe flashy as a player like Boqvist was at the junior level, but he, he is just such an efficient, effective hockey player and I think it's going to work and be very successful for him throughout his NHL career. Like, I truly, truly believe that Ryan Lynn's going to be a top four defenseman in the NHL for a long, long time and have a tremendous career.
- [48:59]
Scott Wheeler
My first question would be, could I hear you compare and contrast Lynn, who you have. You say it was six or seven, seventh to another right shot D in the Western League in Dax and Rudolph, who you have at 12. Can you explain why how you would compare and contrast those two players?
- [49:24]
Max Bultman
He's. I would say that Ryan is the smarter player, that he's the more polished defender at this age. And he has, he has been more productive at this age. You've got a little bit more. Yes.
- [49:38]
Chris Peters
Not this year. Not this year.
- [49:40]
Max Bultman
This. Their. Their numbers outside their numbers are almost identical this year. And he was, he's got much more productive last year.
- [49:47]
Scott Wheeler
He has, he. Rudolph has 10 more goals and I think four or five more points this year.
- [49:53]
Max Bultman
He's also playing on a better team.
- [49:55]
Scott Wheeler
Okay.
- [49:57]
Max Bultman
Statistically, I think we're talking about virtually identical players this year considering the context. And one was once considerably more taller last year. Yeah.
- [50:09]
Scott Wheeler
Was he, was he considerably more productive? Rudolph at like just.
- [50:13]
Max Bultman
Rudolph had 30 point, 30 something points last year.
- [50:17]
Scott Wheeler
41, 40 points and 12 in the playoffs.
- [50:21]
Max Bultman
Yeah.
- [50:22]
Scott Wheeler
Like, I think that that's just my, like I'm. I'm looking at this and seeing they're.
- [50:26]
Max Bultman
In the same tier. They're in the same tier for me. Like I have. I have Lynn 7 and Rudolph 12, I believe. But they're both in that, in that second tier for me.
- [50:36]
Scott Wheeler
I, I'm asking this because I see 2662 right shot D met in the same league. I think both have been very impressive offensively. I don't think I would qualify one over the other in terms of their offensive profiles. I think they've both showed a lot of offense. I don't know if either showing elite, elite like special offense, like again off the charts. Like what Chase Reed's doing right now in the ohl. And then I would say, okay, well, Lynn probably competes harder, better defender at the junior level. But then you have Rudolph, who's just as good a skater and is nearly 3 inches taller, maybe even more than 3 inches taller. And then I would say like, that profile to me is probably more impressive for the NHL or at least like so close enough. I would, I don't see how there could be a five spot separation in favor of, of Lynn there from what I've seen. But that's, that's, that's, that's, that's my first instinct there. It's like I'm like, what am I not seeing here that you're seeing on Lynn? Like, I guess because you might think, I think is like, oh, I think you probably off the charts smarter and.
- [51:43]
Max Bultman
More well rounded defensively would be the distinction for me.
- [51:47]
Corey Pronman
So you said you drew a distinction between some of the guys. I'm trying to remember who all you said, you said Boqvist, you said Soderstrom, Heinola. How would you comp him to like sanding Pelica in Detroit?
- [51:59]
Max Bultman
Pelica had the big shot that Lynn doesn't have. That would be the biggest distinguishing factor. But I think there are some similarities. 5, 11, they're both competitive, they both battle. I would say that Lynn's probably a smarter player at the same age than Pelica was. Pelica played more on instinct. There's some similarities there.
- [52:21]
Corey Pronman
I'm just asking because like Pelica goes mid teens. I think he was 16, 15 through.
- [52:26]
Max Bultman
16, which is, which is where Lynn is likely going to go.
- [52:29]
Chris Peters
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's always interesting like, because, yeah, because, I mean we could have these debates among ourselves. In the end we know like, we kind of know how the NHL thinks about these things and, and where he's more likely to go. It's going to be fascinating to follow their careers, you know, just the, the two of them together. But I mean like Rudolph, and Rudolph has a lot of fans, but he also has his fair share of detractors too. Whereas I feel like Lynn has a few fans like in the NHL spaces, like guys that believe in him and, and, but I think that in, in the conversations I've had, there's, there's a lot of projecting going on that he's going to be in that, you know, basically 20ish, 20, you know, potentially sub 20 range. But yeah, you know, it, it's interesting at this point because of how many defensemen there are in this draft. We're talking about guys that are probably going to be in the end a little bit outside of that, that top tier of the defenseman in this class. But I think those are the guys. One of those guys, you know, you pick them and they do have that potential to supersede some of the players that are going to go ahead of them. I think both Lynn and Rudolph and even Villanuev for that matter, have that capability to potentially supersede what we're gonna see. So we'll, you know, as, as, as, as, as. As our friends like to say, time will tell. So time will.
- [53:51]
Scott Wheeler
I think the CH that latest CHL top 10 came out. I think Prince Albert was number one leading score on Prince Albert currently is.
- [53:57]
Chris Peters
Dax and Rudolph is that good.
- [54:02]
Scott Wheeler
I, I mean he might be the best player on the best team in the CHL right now.
- [54:06]
Max Bultman
I just like, I don't think PA is the best team in the chl.
- [54:10]
Chris Peters
But.
- [54:13]
Max Bultman
I think you guys are CHL.
- [54:14]
Corey Pronman
Seems to you guys are very close on Dax and Rudolph. For what it's worth, Corey's got him 10, Scott's got him 12. So the debate here is more Lynn, but I get, I get what you're doing, Corey. You're just trying to make the point is why. Why would Lynn be five spots above? It's just a taste. We got a whole lot more.
- [54:27]
Max Bultman
If Ryan, Ryan. If Ryan Lynn were playing on Prince Albert, he would also be leading Prince Albert and scoring for the record.
- [54:33]
Corey Pronman
Hey, save something for the article, guys. Let's wrap there. That's gonna do it for us today. Make sure you go read both those articles. Scott and Corey's latest 2026 NHL Draft rankings. Tons of good stuff in both of them. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series. You can of course catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey and on his podcast called Up. We'll talk to you soon.
- [54:59]
Chris Peters
Flowers die in three days.
- [55:00]
Corey Pronman
Matching underwear from Meundies.
- [55:02]
Chris Peters
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Scott Wheeler
To 20% versus Verizon by getting built.
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Chris Peters
In benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is in US cellular stores.
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Corey Pronman
Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits plan features in.
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Scott Wheeler
Texas and fees vary.
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Max Bultman
Savings with three plus lines include third.
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Corey Pronman
Line free via monthly bill credits.
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Chris Peters
Credit stop if you cancel any lines.
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Corey Pronman
Qualifying credit required.
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Max Bultman
As a small business owner, you don't really get to clock out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when it's time to hire, you need a partner that works just as.
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Scott Wheeler
Hard as you do.
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Max Bultman
That partner is LinkedIn. Jobs when you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. It's super easy to post your job for free, share it with your network, and manage qualified candidates all in one place. LinkedIn can even help you write your job description and get it in front of the right people. And promoted jobs get three times more qualified applicants.
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Scott Wheeler
72% of small businesses say LinkedIn helps.
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Max Bultman
Them find higher quality candidates, and you.
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Scott Wheeler
Can double your reach just by adding.
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Max Bultman
The hashtag hiringframe to your profile photo. Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com jobsearch that's LinkedIn.com J O B S E A R C H Terms and conditions apply.