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- [00:00]
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- [00:20]
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- [01:32]
Max Boltman
This is the athletic hockey show prospect series. Hey everybody. Max Boltman here alongside Scott Wheeler for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. A leaner, albeit perhaps not necessarily meaner Scott episode of the Prospect Series. Just you and me today. No Corey, no Chris. Maybe a little bit less, less heated debate going on here, just the two of us. But we're going to, we're going to run through your NHL Prospect pool rankings, which is a great series you do every year right around this time of year. I think it was a little delayed this year thanks to your little one. But coming out at I think a time when a lot of fans really want this. Like there's a lot of franchises out there who are already turning their their minds the page mentally to the future and this is a great asset for all those fan bases. If you, if you're a fan of a team that's not in the playoffs, this is a great way for you to get yourself kind of onto the next page and mourn this season with some optimism.
- [02:39]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, this process, I really enjoyed it this year. I typically run this project in January and February. Like that's the typical cadence. It normally runs the Monday, if the Sunday is the world, the Saturday or Sunday is the world junior file or final gold medal game. Then typically Monday or Tuesday we start rolling out this project. And one of the things that we wanted to try, part of it was I took all of February off, so it delayed it. But the other part of it was the Olympics this year. But I wanted to try this sort of post deadline cadence because I found the tricky part about the January, February release for this project is that in the end of February, early March, as the trade deadline hits, oftentimes several of the kids exchange, exchange hands. Right? So this way, this is the final picture of the pool immediately, immediately after the deadline. Nothing is going to change. And I've really enjoyed that part of it because it feels a little firmer in terms of the, the pool rankings. You don't have. Like this year we saw Jonathan casting Castagna and a few of those guys sort of Abram Wieb, a few guys. Dell not, not sort of cornerstone prospects, if you will. David Yurichek was probably the biggest name, but those just wouldn't, those moves just wouldn't typically be captured with our, our normal January February cadence. So I don't know whether we'll go back to that next year or whether we'll keep with this sort of post deadline release schedule. But I did, I did like the way that it sort of rolled out this year, if you will.
- [04:10]
Max Boltman
Well, I will say as a beat writer, and I'm sure there, there's an element of this for our listeners who are fans too. It is nice at the deadline when you see a prospect move and you can go immediately consult like, okay, where was this guy in that previous team system? What's the absolute most up to date? You know, read on him too. So I, I did like that. But I think this is nice for the fans in a different way, especially the fans of the teams at the very top of this list. Now it's interesting for San Jose because they're a team that could still very well make the playoffs and they're going to be, you know, grinding that right to the very end. But, but the whole way it was kind of the countdown was, you know, you do a countdown from 32 to 1 and the big anticipation was really, who's going to be number one? Is it going to be the San Jose Sharks? Is it going to be the Chicago Blackhawks.
- [04:52]
Scott Wheeler
Yes. And that felt to me like the only real decision in this countdown. There were kind of clusters, and I could move the teams around. I see people always making a case. I like this team better than the. This team's pool, better than the pool that came out yesterday. So there's a lot of that. And oftentimes my answer, when you're in the sort of mushy middle, certainly at the top end and at the bottom end, it's pretty crystallized. Like, people complain about their pools, and I got comments from rival fans saying, how could so and so pool at 18 in the Countdown be this high? Because some of the pools, even at 18, 19, 16, 17, look pretty slim. And then I often point them in the direction of what the Florida Panthers and the Dallas Stars pools look like. And then they go back in time and open up the number 32 and number 31 list, and it becomes pretty clear that there is. There is. However poor you think your pool is, there's always a bottom below that. Right. So that part of it is always sort of dynamic. Like, we talked a little bit off air, but pools three through nine in this year's countdown, like, you could move them around. I felt the Montreal Canadiens were number nine, and there were teams that I had slotted ahead of them that I kind of pulled my hair over. But there were. There were only two teams in the conversation for number one, and there was sort of a clear top two in this year's countdown. And that was as, as you hinted at, the San Jose Sharks and the Chicago Blackhaw. The interesting conversation I had internally about those two pools is that they look very different as well. The Sharks have arguably, if you're comparing the two pools, arguably the top player. The Sharks landed at number two. They have arguably the top player at each position. So at forward, it's Michael Misa, on defense, it's Sam Dickinson, and in net, it's Joshua Ravensburgen. Right. And so you. If you're. If you're strictly looking at the top three or four prospects in each of those pools, you. You've also got as a fourth prospect, Igor Chernyshov, who's had a phenomenal, phenomenal first season in the ahl. And really, if you go back to last year in Saginaw, he started off the year with. With a surgery, with a shoulder surgery that he had in August, missed some time, and then came back and was really in junior hockey last year. Chernyshov was one of the very best players, not just in the ohl but in the chl and you could kind of see what was going to come this year. There was a little bit of foreshadowing of okay, maybe this kid is ready to make an impact in the ahl, which he then did, and maybe this kid is ready even to potentially play some top six minutes and play alongside a Will Smith or a Macklin Celebrini or a Victor Eklund, which he has done in spurts this year successfully as well. Right. So if you're just looking at those top four, I think there's a very compelling case for the San Jose Sharks. Their number five prospect for me was Eric Polkamp, who has a real chance today as the podcast releases, has a real chance to win the Hobie Baker and is one of the hat trick finalists for the Hobie Baker. You've got players like Quinton Musty and Philip Beast who are going to play in the league. Beastet is really knocking on the door. Luca Cagnoni has already played NHL games though. He's got to figure out whether he's sort of a third pairing offensive type or just a quadruple, a sort of ultra offensive defenseman at the AHL level. But you start to compare those players that sort of poll Camp Cagnoni to the players who are 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, even 10 on the Blackhawks list. And that's where the divisions started to happen at the top. I didn't think that Anton Frondell and Roman Cancerov and Sam Renzel, who were my top three Blackhawks prospects, I didn't think that they were that far off the Ravensburg and Misa Dickinson trio. But then you get further down the list and you've got Nick Lardis, who's scoring goals in the NHL and has had 30 plus is going to finish the year with 30 plus professional goals between the AHL and NHL in his rookie season this year, obviously scored 70, first player since John Tavares to score 70 a year ago in the OHL. You've got Oliver Moore, you've got Kevin Kurchinski, you've got Marek Vaneker, you've got Sasha Boy there who's now getting introduced to fans. There's just a real, a real depth there of guys who are going to be solid NHL contributors for you. And I just felt like some of the Sharks guys had a little sort of further down the list, had some question marks about them that maybe the Blackhawks kids didn't have. And then even further down the Blackhawks list like they have Cancerov, who led the KHL in Scoring not just in his age cohort led the KHL in scoring this year with 36 goals. They have both of the OHL goal scoring champions this year in Marek Vaneker and Jack Pridham, who's going to play at BU next year. Like there's just such this mass of players. I think AJ Spellisy and we've both watched AJ a lot. I think AJ Spellisy is going to be a fourth line player in the NHL and he's way down their list. So there's that piece of it. Drew Canneso is already playing NHL games as a goalie. Like there's just so much in the Blackhawks pool. Mason west is a wild card. I do wonder whether there's that sort of true high end guy. I've been very impressed by Anton Frondell. I think Cancerov has a chance to be a true top six winger in the league. But are they what Misa or Dickinson could represent? No. So that's, that was the, the conversation I had with those two teams at the top.
- [10:10]
Max Boltman
And we should say it was ultimately Chicago that got your number one spot, right?
- [10:13]
Scott Wheeler
Yes.
- [10:13]
Max Boltman
Mainly on the strength of that depth. It's interesting though to like see the timing come out here because you've got these lists more or less prepared a couple weeks ago, but in that time Anton Frondell debuts and not only does he debut, he debuts really loudly. And you've had me so, you know, play about 40 games in the NHL this season. So you have a little bit of a reference point. You're not going to base anything on eight games like in any league. But it's got to be interesting for you as like you're building to this release and you're like, oh, this frontel and you had Chicago ranked 1. So maybe that, maybe that puts it all at ease. But when you talk about comparing Friendle and Misa and who's the best and certainly, you know, those two teams had to think about that at the draft last year. Friendle, his start in the NHL has been as good as Chicago could have ever dreamed of, I think.
- [10:56]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, six points in eight games as a teenage rookie who is put directly into play and he's been playing like 18, 18 and a half minutes a night and, and playing well. I know early on he gave up. That seems to have settled down. I think he's like plus two over his last three games. But he was productive right away. He seems to have found some immediate chemistry with Connor Bedard and Ryan Green on that line. That and that factored in frankly. And it's going to factor in next week when my top 100 drafted prospects ranking comes out as well. I'm just in the process of finishing up that list and sort of where Frendel fit in that relative to the Mises and the Martones and the guys that you would expect to be at the top was sort of another debate that I had with myself. But Frontel has looked good and the big question I had with Frendel was kind of the boots like he can stomp around out there a little bit. And I wondered in those short races in the offensive zone or the defensive zone, was Anton going to be able to keep up? Was he going to be able to get to loose pucks? He can get going, we know he can get going and build ahead of steam. But those sort of from a standstill, those quick jumps around the offensive zone, I did wonder about that. And he hasn't looked slow to me in terms of getting out to the wall, protecting pucks, winning battles. He seems to be right in there. And the pace doesn't seem to be an issue, which is huge for him because we know he can shoot it. We know he's going to be a threat on the powerplay with the one timer. We know he has the size. Now they have to figure out, I think is he a center or is he a winger. And it's the same thing they've had to figure out with Frank Nazar and, and Connor Bedard obviously to a lesser degree as well. So they've got a lot of those guys like could be a center, could be a winger, even Oliver Moore and some of the other sort of depth guys. You're asking the same question Sasha boy there. So that's. I think the next thing for them is figuring out that mix and then you insert a Cancerov and a largest, these sort of scoring wingers and suddenly you've got a pretty interesting mix of. Of players.
- [12:58]
Max Boltman
Definitely. And then I to me, I think the Chicago, I agree Chicago, San Jose is kind of the tier line there but we talk about the, the pools really a pool ranking is going to be swayed by the very top prospects here. And that's why like I zero in on front with Chicago and certainly like the Mises and the Dickinson's with San Jose. I think when you talk about that interchangeable second tier Calgary comes out at the very top mainly because they have Zane Pere and Cole Rashni which are two of the better prospects in that whole tier from three to nine.
- [13:29]
Scott Wheeler
Yes. And. And Matt Vay gridden has been excellent this year. Like Matt V. Gridden was a move, a needle mover for them. They were just outside my top 10 pools a year ago and they added Colin Potter and Cole Reschni, two first round picks in last year's draft. But the the true sort of difference makers in terms of elevating them. They already had Zane Parek, they already had Brustevich and Brustevich has had a really nice year in the NHL as well. And I know, I know Flames fans have are high on him and some of his recent performances. I think he's played 20 minutes a night a few times recently, that kind of a thing. But it's Gridden and Wittenbach in particular that sort of help to elevate them into that top 10 mix. Gridden has I think it's 11 points in his last 15 NHL games. He's playing on their first line. He's on PP1. He's showing a ton of poise with the puck. I know they've thrown around some, some lofty names in terms of like Kucharov and and this like highly skilled, highly poised winger on their, on their broadcast and I don think that's the kind of player we're talking about with Gridden. But Gridden looks like he's going to be a top six winger in the league and that is huge. And then Wittenbach obviously leagued college hockey and scoring this year and we'll see whether TJ Hughes, who needs three points here to catch him, can catch him but will likely finish the year out as a freshman as the leading scorer in the country. So that helped Bruce Devich having a nice year help grid in having a nice year helped. And that's even with Zane maybe not having the year that we expected Zane to have. Obviously Cole Reschne's in the frozen four. He's playing big minutes, 20 minutes a night as a freshman forward. The goals haven't maybe been there. I think Cole only scored six goals in college hockey this year but was a point per game player, one of the leading scorers on North Dakota and he's first like he's playing three four minutes on the penalty kill every night and he's first over the boards on the power play and he's out for defensive zone draws. So I'm a big believer in Reschni. I thought he elevated at the, at the World Juniors was one of their better depth players at the World Juniors. He's going to be a go to guy for them next year. So there's suddenly something there. And then they trade for Abram Wieb, they trade for Jonathan Castagna, two of the top players in college hockey this year. Castagna has already turned pro web will after the Frozen Four this week and is expected to turn pro, could even play potentially NHL games here in the final week of the regular season. So there's suddenly a. There's something there. Henry Muse got off to a great start at Michigan before he was sidelined for the year. Unfortunately, like there are just some pieces there now in Calgary and I know they have two more first round picks this year and one of them will be in all likelihood a second, third, fourth overall pick. So now suddenly if you can get that star forward prospect to slot alongside Zane Parek, now suddenly you have something to to sort of build from in Calgary. And they desperately need that.
- [16:18]
Max Boltman
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- [19:17]
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- [19:51]
Max Boltman
When we talk about the interchangeableness of this, like you're absolutely spot on here and I think people will see that when they look at the pool rankings. I don't want to go blow by blow through all these teams. I think there's a lot of them that will not surprise people. Obviously the Utah Mammoth after getting Caleb Denyer and been picking high a decent amount in the last several years. They're in there. The Nashville Predators, the Detroit Red Wings, the Seattle Kraken, the Philadelphia Flyers. Who we're going to come back to, the Montreal Canadiens are the last team in that kind of tier right at number nine and it's a very good system when I look at it. I can absolutely see an argument for top five. Again, that's where the interchangeability comes into play. The guy I want to key in on for the Canadians though is Alexander Zarovsky because he is ahead on your like you don't just rank the pools, you go blow by blow. You rank the players, you write up a good blurb on them. This guy's ahead of David Reinbacher who went very high for Montreal. He's ahead of some very highly rated prospects. Exactly. Tell me a little bit more about Jurowski. And I know Montreal fans are pretty aware of him. They followed him closely. But for our, our NHL listeners outside of Montreal, what did Montreal find in Alexander Jurofski?
- [20:54]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean we talked about Cancerov off the top just in terms of those, those standout KHL players. Igor Surin is another one with the Nashville Predators who had an excellent year. But Zarovsky with UFA had a historic year. And a historic year for a U19 skater relative to Matt Vay Mitchkov, Ivan Demidov, Nikita Kutrov, Kirill Kaprizov. You go down the list, the all time great U19 teenage seasons in, in the KHL and Jurovsky paced with them. There is a ca that like if you remember from just two years ago, Ivan Demidov, despite the fact that he's now a 60 point player in the NHL a year from year out from that, Ivan Demidov was only playing like 13 minutes a night in the KHL last year. That's not what happened with Jarovsky and Ufa. Jarovsky was playing on the first line, playing 17, 18, 19 minutes a night. So there's a. And and you go back to Meov's year at that age, same thing kind of 13 minutes, not 18, 19 minutes. So he definitely benefited from playing high in Ufa's lineup, but also led that team in scoring and was just consistently, consistently noticeable with the puck and has shot up like entering his draft year he was listed at 5 foot 11, he's now listed at 6 foot 2. So suddenly you've got this highly, highly skilled player and Jurofski with the puck on his stick, is dynamic offensively. So you've got this highly, highly skilled player and you've got him in a 6 foot 2 frame and you've got got the statistical track record after a huge, huge year in the khl, an all time year in the KHL for his age and suddenly it's like oh boy, 33rd overall or 34th overall, second pick after Hoshi Wang. Simon Wang went to San Jose. Suddenly you're like, oh boy, this kid looks like a top 10 top 15 talent in last year's draft class. Like if I were to redraft 2025 today, once you get through the Schaefers and the true top dogs, Jurofski's in that next mix and that will be reflected in my upcoming drafted prospects ranking as well. He's a really lean kid, part of that gross spurt. Like, I think he's got a little bit of that Elias Pedersen, Kent Johnson sort of scrawny look to him, if you will. But oh man, like you're, I think you're looking at a top, a future top six PP winger here. And to get that in the second round and to know that just a year after getting it in the second round and to have that be the way that other teams are talking about this player and that he's sort of viewed not just by the Montreal Canadiens and by Habs fans, you'd expect them to be excited about him. But you talk to just about anybody about the risers from last year's draft and obviously Wittenbach comes up and some of those names come up. But Jurofski is one of the very first names you hear and with emphasis in talking to people. So something to be excited. Like that's found money, right? Like that's finding Matthew Nies. That's like that's finding a key piece in a, in a range where you're not supposed to find them. And they've already obviously done that with Lane Hudson. And then you've got Michael Hage and you've got your goalie of the future and Jacob Fowler. And another one of the risers from last year's draft is Bryce Pickford, who I've got a feature coming out on soon at the Athletic, who's another Habs prospect and obviously doing historic things from a goal scoring perspective this year in, in the whl. So just some, some nice storylines. They don't have that sort of mass that a Nashville Predators or Chicago Blackhawks have in terms of like their, their prospects that are at 8 and 9, you're hoping are playing games for you rather than our surefire NHLs. But those top four names with Reinbacker, Jurovsky, Fowler and Hage and the year that Hage had at Michigan, those top four names can probably go blow to blow with with with most teams as pools.
- [24:37]
Max Boltman
You mentioned that, you know, the Sharks picked one spot in front of the Canadians when they got Jurovsky. It's kind of Funny, because the Sharks found a similar impact player, different little different profile between these two. But when they found Igor Chernyshov in a similar neighborhood of the draft there, and you know, again, different profile, but we saw Chernyshov's impact this year. And when you can find a piece like that at that neighborhood of the draft, I think people take for granted sometimes, whether it's because the NFL you find like high impact guys in the second round or whatever.
- [25:06]
Scott Wheeler
It's.
- [25:06]
Max Boltman
It's much harder than you think to actually find a real contributor, much less like a top six piece at the, at the turn of the, of the first and second round there. And so when you find a player like that, if Jarovsky really does become that, if Chernyshov continues as he looks like he is going to becoming that, it's a game changer for teams, no question.
- [25:23]
Scott Wheeler
And same goes in Chicago in terms of Cancerov and Lardis and what they might represent. Right. Like it's you. You have to hit at the top. And I should have probably noted off the top that I there, there was some feedback to me in terms of Artie Lev Shunov not being included with the Blackhawks pool while Sam Dickinson was. They're from the same draft class. Obviously Artie has played exclusively in the NHL this year, so has Sam. Artie's a little bit older. So there, there's a little bit of that that happens in terms of just picking who I think is sort of quote unquote, graduated. But further down, like, you have to hit on. And Chicago might not have hit on Korchinski, but you kind of have to hit on the Bedards and the Lev Chunovs and the Frank Nazars and the Will Smiths and the Joshua Ravensbergens, like those premium assets that you dedicate a huge amount of time and resources for. But if you can find that Cancerov, if you can find that Chernyshov, if you can find that Jurovsky, that elevates your ceiling in a, in maybe an unexpected way, in a way that you don't sort of calculate for.
- [26:28]
Max Boltman
Yeah. And to your point about like the, the eligibility, it's a moving target, right? I know with the Red Wings, they, they frustrated you a little bit because it was Pelica had been in the NHL the whole year standing, actually standing Pelica. And then he gets sent down and then he's back in the NHL by the time Detroit's list actually comes out. I'm sure that there's all kinds of little things like that that are you know, people, people you know are right to point out some of the things, but it is a moving target as you're putting this together.
- [26:53]
Scott Wheeler
And the way I thought about it, specifically with Dickinson versus Lev Shunov, because of the impact that that would have on the top of the rankings, is that Dickinson, they didn't have a choice. Like I included him because we don't know if he was AHL eligible. We don't know whether they would have sent him to send him to the ahl. And frankly, I think he probably would have played games. I think Sam would have played games in the AHL this year had he been eligible. With Artie, we do know that the AHL was an option for him and they still didn't send him there, albeit they did send him there during the Olympic break to sort of practice and reset. He never actually played a game in the AHL this year already. So that was kind of where I landed on it, if you will, in my defense.
- [27:32]
Max Boltman
And Chicago was one anyway, so they just would have been super one if they had left Chenauff. It's fine.
- [27:37]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [27:37]
Max Boltman
So that's the bulk of kind of the top 10 of Scott's rankings. I think that's a big part of this list, as always. Those are the players, the teams that you're going to want to be following if you're a reader, if you're a listener. But I also think one of the most interesting, like, kind of narrative elements of this whole exercise, Scott, is who's moving up and who's moving down. So let's start with kind of the biggest fallers on this list. One of them is the Minnesota Wild. And the Minnesota Wild are a faller for the best possible reason that you can be a faller. You traded a bunch of prospects away and you got Quinn Hughes in return. So, yeah, you lose Z Bouilliam. Yeah, you lose Liam Ogren and Danil Yurov graduates. Is there anything for the Wild to be concerned about here or is this just like. Yep, that's what you do when you're a good team. You talked about the teams that typically are 30th or 32nd. Those are good teams.
- [28:22]
Scott Wheeler
I think the concern is just how much of a slat, like, just how deep they cut the grass, if you will, like, and the division that they play in, like, they have put all of their chips on the table. And you better believe now that with Quinn Hughes and Kirill Caprasov and without a prototypical first line center, that you can win in that division against Dallas and Colorado. Because if you don't you have not. Not abandoned, but pretty close to abandoned the future sort of foundation of your organization, which they had built. They were number two in this project just a year ago.
- [29:00]
Max Boltman
And Wallstatt, that's another graduate, right? Like, that's graduate.
- [29:04]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. Walstad and Yurov are graduates and Ziv was going to be a graduate whether he, like, whether they traded him or not. So that the trade doesn't really impact. Z played exclusively in the NHL this year. He was quite likely going to be viewed as a graduate. And I didn't list him on Vancouver's. But no, like, it's. There's not a lot left there. And obviously Ogren goes out, you go down the list, it's suddenly pretty bare bones. And I like Charlie Stramel and Adam Banach and there's a couple of sort of interesting prospects there, but they've had a really tough time develop. We've talked about it on the pod with Chris, who's obviously tapped in in Iowa. They've had a really tough time developing some of their young defenseman. They used a lot of D picks on young defensemen over the last five, six years, and they've had a tough time in Iowa developing them. Like, Iowa has just been kind of a place where those deep prospects go to. To sit and not take that next step. We saw David Spa Check. David Spa Check played some NHL games for them this year and is a very good AHL defenseman. But there's just. There's not like. Like if Strammel's your best prospect, the best case outcome for Charlie Stramel is that he's a really good 3C. Right. Like, that's always been the projection. So that. That piece that they may be missing now that that top six center that maybe gets them over the hump against a Colorado or a Dallas, that piece isn't coming internally. And if you now need to trade to acquire that piece, you don't have the bullets in the chamber to do that. So I think there's going to be some reliance on free agency and there's got to be hope now that it can be by committee with. And Marco Rossi also goes out the door. Not a prospect, but Rossi goes out the door too. So now you're counting on Yurov and Eric Sinek and some of these guys to be really important players down the middle for you. And I'm not sure that down the middle they have what it takes. So it's an. It was a risky calculation for them, and I'll be fascinated to see Whether it pays off in terms of not getting into the playoffs every year. I think we expect them to do that moving forward with their core. It's can they go three or four rounds deep into the playoffs now?
- [31:07]
Max Boltman
I still think that you will see them try to trade for a higher level center whether it's one of the or probably not. Both of you probably have to pick one of Eurov or Stramol.
- [31:15]
Scott Wheeler
And then you should know your check also goes Eurocheck also goes out the door for Bob Brink too. Right.
- [31:21]
Max Boltman
So yep, that's true.
- [31:22]
Scott Wheeler
Not that your check we know what your check is now but it's another prospect that was subtracted from their list from a year ago.
- [31:28]
Max Boltman
If you were let's say the New York Rangers and you're trading Vincent Trocheck, what would your interest level be in a year of or a Straymill in that kind of trade? I mean there's a huge age gap if nothing else.
- [31:38]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And. And that's also frankly what the Rangers need. Like the Rangers have all these wings and they've had all of these wings and you even go back to Capo Caco and now you've got Gabe Perot and the rate and they've just traded for Liam Greentree another wing. Like the Rangers do sort of need that young center to infuse into their group. So I would wonder about Yurov or Stremo. I'm a bigger believer in Yurov than I am with Streamlike. I think in your off you have a potential for a second line center in Stremo. I don't think he gets there. Like I just don't think he has the pace or the skill level to quite get there. But there's probably also a scenario where stramo is a 3C is more valuable to you than you're of as a 2C in terms of where they fit into a roster and their ideal role on a team. So no those players. Yeah that. That's your. But. But even, even like is tro check is a 30 plus year old center who's a very good player. Does that get you over the hump relative to Nathan McKinnon and Wyatt Johnston and like it's. It's a. It's a tough hill to climb down the middle. Now if Caprasov and Hughes are winning games for you and Wallstadt becomes your starting goalie then that every you're fine still. But it's that man that division is tough. Like it feels to me like the Atlantic felt for a few years there with with With Boston and Florida and, and Tampa and Toronto. Right. Where it's just like, oh, it's going to be a war now.
- [33:05]
Max Boltman
Yeah. So the wilder 23 on this list, the teams behind them, I don't think anyone's really surprised by the Lightning, the Golden Knights, the Aves, the Leafs. That one's a problem. For Toronto, that is. That is a problem. The senators at 26, it's, it's not ideal. Although they have a, like a good enough, young enough team that maybe you can weather it. The interesting one on the other side of the ledger, like, they're actually above the Wild on this list, but I think there's still a faller from where you've had them relative to the past is the Columbus Blue Jackets. And there's some of the same kind of elements of graduates. Right. Denton Matejuk. Like, you want a guy like Denton Matechuk to graduate because it means he's impacting your NHL team and he has impacted their NHL team. Graduated last year, was a really good player, but it's not entirely the same. Like, yeah, but you got Quinn Hughes as the Minnesota Wild is. It's, it's a little maybe more concerning for the Columbus Blue Jackets to be now in the back half of this list at 17.
- [33:57]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And, and frankly, not a lot has changed. Like, even if you subtract, obviously Fentilli and KJ were before that. But if you said, let's say you subtract Denton Matechuk and you add Jackson Smith, I think that from a prospect standpoint, yeah, they were taken in about the same spot in the draft. They were both taken around 12, 13th overall. Like, that's. They're comparable prospects for me at the same age. Denton a little bit smaller, but more accomplished in terms of just pedigree at the junior level in Canada. And they both played in the whl, but Denton was more accomplished at an earlier age. Jackson was always about the raw tools and this elite skating ability. But you look at their pool, not a lot has changed. Like, it's still Luca Del Beluz and all these guys that have been there and the thing that hurt them and they drafted Peter Andreanov, one of the top goalie prospects, with a second first round pick there. He was actually taken before Ravensburg in last year's draft. But the thing that has really hurt them is that year over year, the 1 change in their pool is that I have continued to downgrade my projection and the likelihood of him meeting that projection on Caden Lindstrom. And Lindstrom just had another tough year and he was, we've talked about it on the pod as well, but he was owed more and he had some good nights for the Spartans and they were a very deep team. And he's coming off of, of basically a year and a half off of hockey and he's still dealing with the back a little bit and learning how to manage it and he's doing all sorts of off ice stuff to get himself ready to play games and he's still a big strong kid with the quick twitch hands and he's physical and he's mean and he's going to score and things are going to come and happen for Caden, but man, that's a tough pick at fourth overall and you watch Ivan Demidov and what he's doing in Montreal this year and you go down the list from Demidov and it's, it's, it's a like a very, very difficult pill for that organization to swallow I think. Or it's. And if they haven't realized that that's what it's going to be, then it, they will eventually. So that, that worries me. Like, is Caden going to play in the NHL still? Yeah, probably. Is Caden going to be a dominant force, top line power forward in the NHL or even a second line version of that? Are they going to have, have Fantilly Lindstrom down the middle like we thought they might have? No, like that's just not, that's not a reasonable projection at this stage of, of Lindstrom's career. So that part of it just hurt them, hurt their standing overall and I, I don't know what's next for Caden. Ironically enough, he should probably kind of follow his Michigan State teammates path. Instruct Charlie. Yeah, Strammel, right. Like Strammel transferred after his freshman year and was, had a really a tough two couple of years and then he reunites with 90 and Nighty's a coach who obviously coached Dremel at the NTDP and he knew how to get the most out of him, but he also just stuck with it and he stuck with it and he stuck with it and then suddenly he was playing on a line with Daniel Russell and Porter Martone and they were one of the best lines in college hockey. And he had a 50 point season. That's what Caden needs to do. It's so hard for a fourth overall pick to not take that entry level contract and jump to the NHL even when things aren't going well. But I think I truly believe it's in cadence best interest to spend three or four years in college. He's going back for next year as a sophomore. But even if he has a better year next year, I'd still be reluctant if I'm the Columbus Blue Jackets to say to Caden, okay, now, now's the time to turn pro. Like, just let him play at Michigan State for three or four years, get better, hopefully have a the kind eventually have the kind of year that Stramo had this year and then you're not operating from a place of catch up all the time with his development.
- [37:43]
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- [38:02]
Scott Wheeler
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- [38:58]
Max Boltman
all right, so those are the fallers. Let's go to the risers here. Some of these are obvious. We already talked about the Calgary Flames. They're up to number three, obviously a riser. We, we talked out all the reasons why. I think it's also pretty clear why the New York Islanders are a riser. And you don't even have Matthew Schaefer in this group. But you make the Noah Dobson trade, you end up with Kishan Aitchison and Victor Eklund. That's going to do a whole lot for your system. Right. We've talked trade for Callum Richie, Callum Ritchie.
- [39:20]
Scott Wheeler
Right.
- [39:21]
Max Boltman
Earlier in that year. So that's a big part of this. The Pittsburgh Penguins, I think maybe a Little bit similar logic. We were all, I think going into the draft last year pretty down on the Penguin system. All of a sudden it's number 16 system for you. I still don't know that there's a star in there. I mean Ben Kendall is not a part of this. He was a big breakthrough. He's not a part of this ranking. He's in the NHL. But when you start to add up, hoff, Bronicke, Zahnin, McGrorty. There's a lot of like middle of the lineup types here now.
- [39:48]
Scott Wheeler
Yes. And, and they've always that that sort of group, that pairing of Wes Clark and Kyle Dubas have always been a sort of quality quantity over quote, not over quality. Everybody's focused on quality, but they have focused on moving back and acquiring bullets and making a lot of picks. And that is what they've done in Pittsburgh. And so not only do they now have five or six guys that you think might play and Sergey Maroshov who's one of the top and this is a bit of a spoiler for my goalie ranking, but Marashov, who's one of the top 10 goalie prospects in this in the sport. But you've also just got depth. Like they've got guys into the teens and many of them won't play and many of them might not even be impactful ahellers, but they've got guys with like who do one or two things really well or they've got little guys with skill and they've got some big guys and they, they've taken some, some swings on some players at various points in the draft that I respected. And then on top of that, Horkoff just had a really good year. I could tapered off a little bit. I didn't like him at the world Juniors and I thought he tapered off a little bit in the second half of the year but still scored 20 plus goals. As in what is. He's technically a sophomore, but what should have been his freshman year and it is his first full year obviously entered college for second semester last year. Just some nice stories. Bruna Key like great story. Another one of those second round picks that you talked about. Like you find a Harrison Brunicke in the second round who you know is going to be a top six defenseman for you. And maybe he's only a four or five, but four or fives get paid $5 million in the NHL now.
- [41:21]
Max Boltman
Yeah, they usually go like the 20th pick pick.
- [41:23]
Scott Wheeler
Yes. So that, that side of it, they're in a good spot from a depth standpoint, even without Kindle, even had Kindle been included, they still feel like they're. And I love Ben Kindle, like he's an incredibly smart player and that has gotten him into the NHL this year. But even with Kindle, they're missing. Like where I'm sure we're going to get to Porter Martone with Philadelphia. We talked about Misa off the top. Like, they are still missing that piece for whatever comes after the Crosby, Letang, Carlson Malkin era. Right? So that piece is still missing. And you do have to draft at the top to typically get that piece. As they know well as an organization and because of how well they're playing in the NHL right now, they're not really well positioned to. To draft highly anymore. So I'll be interested to see how they acquire that pick. And maybe it's as simple as once. Like they're going to have this young group and then once Crosby and Malkin are gone, they're going to take a huge step back again. They're going to be right back to picking at the top of the draft again. But no, they've done a good job with the picks that they've had. And we were all sort of a little surprised by how high Kendall went, right. Like he was that first. He was really the first pick of last year's draft that didn't go according to script. Like you had. Roger McQueen was taken right in front of him and you had these guys who kind of went exactly where we all expected them to go. And then Kindle was a departure from that and has performed really in line with where he was selected. In hindsight, just to zero in on
- [42:52]
Max Boltman
Maroshov real quick because he's been one of the most interesting prospects for me to kind of follow from afar this year. I mean, this is a guy who has better AHL numbers this year at a younger age than Sebastian Kosa, who is the number one prospect for you for the Red Wings, who are the number four system here? Yerushov is the number six prospect for the Penguins, who are the number 16 system here. So it's an interesting one to kind of square. There are differences here. Having the best AHL season does not make you the better prospect. The Grand Rapids, you know, team in front of Kosa is, is really strong. So that is maybe another point actually in Miroshov's favor. But there's, there's size elements here that factor into your projection, all that stuff. But I wanted to dive a little deeper on him because to me, I, I would put him on that level right there with Kosa based on what he's done in the American League.
- [43:36]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And it's tempting to do that. And I took a little flack from, from Penguins fans when that, when my list came out of just saying like we love Zaun and we love Torkoff and we love McGrawdy and we love Brunicki, but he should be sort of in, in a tier with those guys. I kind of had those guys in a tier and then Maroshov was right at the front of the next tier and there's probably a case that that's it based off how he's continued to play since that list came out a few weeks ago. There's probably a pretty compelling case for that, frankly. But I've just never like I've always felt about Maroshov like this is a tandem goalie, like this is a goalie who's going to play 40, 45 games. But I've never quite got there to where I am on, on Fowler and, and even not just Cosa, but I think potentially Augustine. It'll be fascinating to see how they handle the two of them. And I know Postava and others have played well, pretty much everybody who's played in grand rap in the grand this year, but I, I, those guys just feel like they have a little bit more upside. To me, the flip side of it is I wonder whether some of the Russian goalies have been from a quote unquote perception or pedigree standpoint. I wonder whether some of the Russian goalies have been hurt in recent years by not playing at the U20 level like Sergey Ivanov is another one in the KHL. He's a Blue Jackets prospect. He's now Ivanov's 511. So that there's a bit of a different calculus there. But Ivanov's another one. Igor, Zev Ragin, another one like these are, these are among the very best goalie prospects in the league right now and, and will all be high in my drafted goalie prospects ranking next week. But they, they haven't played it. We haven't seen them play internationally. We've, I've, I haven't seen them play live even although I saw Ivanov live way, way, way back. But it's just been, it's been harder to sort of truly know and on top of that KHL and MHL stats and we're going to see it with Andreanov who was a first round pick of the Blue Jackets as well. KHL and MHL stats always almost Always look good if you're a decent prospect. Like all those goalies put up 920s, 930s over there, and it's. That's not the case over here where goalies put up. Like, Kosa has a 918 year, but he also had a 909. I think he had a 909 year in the WHL. So a lot of it is sort of balancing that as well. And then Cosa is obviously six five and explosive, so you're always sort of. I think that carries maybe him a little bit too far in our evaluations. And maybe I'm a little too high on Cosa and Augustine, and they should have been fifth or sixth on Detroit's list like Marisha was on Pittsburgh's. But that's the calculus you're making with goalies. And on top of it, I just find goalies harder to evaluate.
- [46:24]
Max Boltman
They are so hard. And certainly to your point, when you're not getting them at these big Internet national events and you can see everybody on the same stage against the same competition. It's a variable. But, but you look around the NHL right now, I'm betting on Russian goalies. The Russian goalies, it's been true for a while now. Every year or two, a new one comes in and they're one of the better ones in the league at what? Three of the top five right now are Russians in the NHL between Shusterkin, Vasilevsky and Sorokin. So.
- [46:53]
Scott Wheeler
And maybe look at, look at Ugorov's numbers a year ago at bu, he goes from Omaha, a team that couldn't win a game where he has an.890 save percentage. And if you're looking at his save percentage, you think this kid's not a top end goalie prospect. And then he goes to BU and leads them to the frozen four. Right. So another Russian, like just yet another Russian.
- [47:12]
Max Boltman
Yep. Askarov. Yeah, they're, they're, they're everywhere. All right. Another team that's on the climber list. You teased it already is the Philadelphia Flyers. For you, they are up to on this year's list, number eight. And Porter Martone is, is a big driving reason why. And everyone who has watched the Philadelphia Flyers over the last week since he debuted is getting a very clear window into why that is.
- [47:33]
Scott Wheeler
Yes, Porter, another guy who has my, my top 100 drafted prospects ranking has kind of had to be live in the last couple of weeks, even as I finalized it, because of what Frontel and what Porter have looked like in the NHL. I Actually think Porter has looked more impressive than Anton in the NHL. I've been. I watched back two of his games on Instat and man oh man, like he was excellent. Like borderline their best player from puck drop of his NHL debut through his first two games. So yeah, just very, very impressive. Obviously has the 50 plus points as as a freshman at college this year as well. Playing on that line with Russell and Stramel and has that sort of skill around the net, goes to the net, will drop the gloves, is physical, likes to run his mouth a little bit. Like he's just kind of got that flyer feel to him. I think fans there are just going to fall in love with him. I know everybody was. Has kind of been clamoring them for them to find a center to play with the Mechkovs and the Zegruses and the wingers that they have in the Kinect Knees and Tippett and the wingers that they have there. And they didn't go that route when there were centers on the board including James Hagenow. They didn't go that route with, with the Martone pick. But you have to like that pick regardless. And they have gotten a little too eager I think with some of their other picks including last year. They didn't just add Porter Martone last year they had six picks and I believe it's six picks in the first two rounds. Four seconds and two first they take Jack Nesbit, a center with the other pick they took Jet Luchenko, 12th overall. Kind of the same range as they took Nesbitt. I thought both of those kids were taken too high and probably top out as scrapping each other to be a 3C for you. Maybe one of them becomes an okay to see if all goes well. But that like with so many organizations around the league, that first line center is now what they feel like they're missing. Right. Like they've got. Who knows what year check will be but they've got Oliver Bonk coming on the blue line. Denver Barkeys had a nice year for them. Like there are some pieces there on top of the connect knees and the Zegrases and Zegras having a really positive year and Cam York and Jamie Drysdale and Travis Sandheim and there are pieces there and they've. And they've got Zavreg and the goalie that I mentioned coming. But the. Yeah, it. It feels like the center is missing there. Like that's. They've tried wrong in that.
- [50:03]
Max Boltman
Yeah, no they've tried. I mean Luchenko and we're never going to be number one centers, but I think there was at least, least a chance for both of them to be number twos. I think particularly Luchenko Nesbit's definitely like a versatile middle six profile, right. Like he can play center for you. But I also think he's got a very good case as just like a hard winger who you can play on the second line with skill guys you can play on the third line to create a mean third line. Luchenko was the one you kind of needed with the pace and the playmaking. That was the one who had the real recipe to be a two. And you know, we'll see. It could happen. He's still pretty young, but it hasn't trended toward 2 so far and he's,
- [50:36]
Scott Wheeler
he's not even a 2C on his OHL team at the moment. So that's. Yeah, it's tough. Like he just, he. That the production has never come to match Everything you like about Jet, which is the work ethic, excellent skater, thinks the game well. He just hasn't scored enough. And it's kind of what feels a little bit like very different profiles as players, but a little bit like Nate Danielson as well in, in, in Detroit where like you love the player but what ultimately is there offensively, I think is the question.
- [51:06]
Max Boltman
And it's a similar predicament for Detroit is like, well, if you're right at the fringes of the playoffs right now, Philly could get into the playoffs this year or they could just miss and be picking like 14 or 15. Is Oliver Suvanto going to move the needle on that? He's kind of in that same bucket as those guys, you know, so they will have to find that at some point. Whether it's through a trade up, whether it's through a trade. Hey, they own the, the, the Toronto pick in 2027, I believe. Is that right?
- [51:30]
Scott Wheeler
They do.
- [51:31]
Max Boltman
That could be an interesting one. Although I'm sure Toronto is going to do everything they can to not have that be in the neighborhood that, that they're picking this year, but they're going to have to find a way to that, that top center. But there's a lot of good pieces in Philly and there's a lot of sneaky good players I think already in Philly and especially Martone joining that. It gets more interesting. The last team I want to talk about in this riser group is the Boston Bruins. They're number 19. They're not super high on the list, but for a long time they were at the very tail of this list they were in there with the Florida's, with the Vegas James Hagan's is the biggest reason why. But who else should Bruins fans kind of know and maybe those outside of Boston know is on the way for the Bruins.
- [52:08]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And another team, as fate would have it, with two first round picks this year and one of them belongs to who?
- [52:15]
Max Boltman
The Toronto Maple Leafs. Well, it might belong to the Toronto Maple Leafs. We originated with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Leafs would have to to do some work over these last few games to keep that pick.
- [52:24]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean honestly if you're the Bruins, maybe you want to be drafting high and the benefit in all of this is that you're going to be drafting a little bit later maybe than you were expecting to. You're going to be back drafting in the 20s somewhere with your own pick. But you might be drafting 6th or 7th or 8th overall with the Leafs pick. And you add that to James Hagens and the question you asked of sort of what else is there? Well, suddenly a year after not scoring a goal as a freshman, Dean Letourneau scored a scored 25 as a sophomore and was second on the Boston College Eagles and scoring behind James Hagens on a team that if you look at pull up their elite prospects page, it's just littered with Boston Bruins logos. It's almost like a whatever's below the echl. That's what the, that's what the Eagles seem to represent to the Bruins these days. But what Tornau has been outstanding and took a huge step this year and really was I know Wittenbach and some of these guys get talked about in of terms, in terms of the stories of the year this year. But Dean was, and had Boston College been a better team. Dean was one of the stories of college hockey this season for me and just made plays constantly, was around the net, was cranking his one timer on the power play. And people sort of looked at him in his draft here and wanted him to be harder, wanted him to work harder. They thought he was just incredibly soft for a big man. And others looked at him and I'm sure the Bruins looked at him and thought okay, like is that this is this kid so skilled offensively that he's maybe kind of a Tage Thompson. And they accelerated, you'll remember they accelerated his, his freshman year last year. He wasn't actually supposed to play in college last year was only because Will Smith turned pro that they were able to open up that spot for him. So this to me honestly kind of felt A little bit more like his freshman year. Like he just barely played there last year and they were a top team in the country and Jacob Fowler was still there there and they were pushing and pushing and pushing. Gabe Perot was still there and this year they kind of turned it over to, to some different guys there. And Dean was just so impressive offensively for a 6 foot 7 kid. And he's athletic and he can skate. And then they've, they've acquired others like Will Zellers. Looks like he might be kind of
- [54:31]
Max Boltman
a world junior breakout star.
- [54:33]
Scott Wheeler
Will and, and froze at the Frozen Four this week with North Dakota and was just under a point per game to there this year. I think he scored 18 goals as well for them which might have led them in goal. He did. He was like third or fourth on that team in points, but might have led them in goals. And just kind of like a greasy guy like Zellers is just always around the net. He kind of has that sort of Bobby Brink kind of feel to him. Just around the crease and the guts of the ice. So yeah, like suddenly there's something there. Cooper Simpson. I was speaking with the Youngstown guys when I was putting together the, the Bruins pool and I sent a text to the Youngstown guys and said like, am I crazy to be excited about Cooper Simpson and what he looks like? And they said absolutely not. Like Cooper scored almost 80 points in the USHL this year, which is extremely hard to do. Like that's 100 points in, in the CHL and did it making like high end plays. He's, he's all. He was a high school kid who could absolutely rip the puck and, and those kids who just have that sort of early NHL shot always get especially out of high school, always sort of become just naturally a mid round pick. And now he's blowing it past USHL goalies and you start to wonder like, okay, this kid's six three and he's got hands and he can absolutely fire it. Like there might be something there. So there's just, there's more there. And they still got Matt Plotra and Fabian Lee Sell and guys that have been in that system forever and kind of bouncing between the NHL and the ahl. Obviously Poitra has played a lot of NHL games. Like I think he might be getting close to 100 NHL games, but they just, it's Hagens and Letourneau and Zellers and Simpson and some of those guys that kind of make, make that pool interesting now. And you add two first round picks this year to it and suddenly the Bruins have maybe an opportunity to kind of add guys to, to pinePak and to McAvoy without having to, to move on necessarily from Pasternak and McAvoy.
- [56:27]
Max Boltman
Yeah, well, certainly for the Bruins it's been. Things have gone about as well this year as I think they possibly could have. And you know, there's even some more irons in the fire. I know you're a big Cooper Simpson kind of not necessarily big believer, but you there, you think there's a kind of a shot that that one becomes a really winning dart throw. Things like that are going well for the Bruins right now at the amateur level, at the pro level. Fluto had a really good article the other day about all the trades that they've made. It's pretty remarkable when a team is able to kind of do this. I mean every team thinks that they're going to do this, that they're going to come out of an era of strong competitiveness and kind of retool on the fly. I'm not saying that the Bruins are like all the way there yet, but they seem to have some of the ingredients to do it, including that Leafs pick that could become a big piece of pulling that off.
- [57:11]
Scott Wheeler
I did not have Morgan geeky becoming a 40 goal scorer on my bingo card a few years ago. Right. Like he just looked like a skilled big man who could shoot it but was slow and didn't have the feet. A little bit like his brother who's still kind of figuring it out in Tampa's system. But I probably would have told you at the same age that I thought Connor Geeke was a better prospect than Morgan Geeky and they have just turned Morgan into like a legit firstline player.
- [57:34]
Max Boltman
I mean Morgan Geeke is the guy that's going to inspire. Like if you're the New York Rangers and you just traded for Liam Green Tree, you're showing Liam Green Tree, Morgan Creaky, Geeky clips every single day. Just hoping that that's the outcome there. Right. So he's going to inspire a lot of people to, to take that shot on the, the heavy footed, skilled shooter. Right. So, but things going well for Boston and, and being a riser on Scott Wheeler's prospect rankings, certainly a part of that. I think that's going to do it for us here. Unless I'm missing anything, any other pools you wanted to touch on before we wrap this one?
- [58:02]
Scott Wheeler
No, that was a pretty, a pretty thorough dive through the pool rankings this year and now we get to look forward to of finishing up at the Frozen Four and then we're into the MEM cup and U18 Worlds and the Combine and it'll be draft time and I just cannot wait for that sort of May June grind that we're about to go through on the pod.
- [58:21]
Max Boltman
Yeah. All right, well then that is going to do it for us on this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series. Thanks Scott for doing this. Make sure you guys go all go through. If we didn't talk about your team today, I apologize. But I promise you Scott covered it way more thoroughly thoroughly than we could have possibly done it here in his series online. You can read all of those at the Athletic. We'll talk to you soon.
- [58:46]
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- [59:16]
Farnoosh Tarabi
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- [60:02]
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