Sean Gentile (2:34)

This is the athletic hockey show.

Haley Salvian (2:49)

What's up everyone? It's Haley Salvian and Sean Gentile here with you for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Today we're going to spend some time talking about the unfortunately timed injuries around the NHL as Olympics get closer and closer. Why Jackson Lacombe over Lane Hudson? We'll chat about that shortly. Then Julian Mackenzie is going to join us. Chat about the Ottawa Senators and Linus All Mark's Leave of absence from the team. Maybe we'll get him to plug his book, Black Aces, that's coming out in about a week now. Very exciting for our friend Julian. But before all that, let's bring in Sean Gentilly. What's up? Are you, do you have a book coming out soon? Do you want to plug any of your projects?

Sean Gentile (3:30)

You know, I don't, I, I, I don't, I don't, I don't appreciate the implication. Everybody else has a book coming out. Julian, Maybe the other person on this podcast.

Haley Salvian (3:42)

I'm not, I'm not actively writing a book at this moment.

Sean Gentile (3:48)

That's, that's a. Okay. You're very, very sneaky. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just trying, I don't know. I'm just hosting the show, trying not to get replaced by Jackson Lacombe, which.

Haley Salvian (4:02)

Is apparently always an option if Bill Guerin has.

Sean Gentile (4:06)

Yeah.

Haley Salvian (4:07)

To do with it. As we all know, NHLs are returning to the Olympics for the first time since 2014. But some players, it's very sad. Some players have been waiting for this chance.

Sean Gentile (4:19)

Yeah.

Haley Salvian (4:19)

Now dealing with injuries at like the worst possible time. Timing is getting short. The NHL shutting down after February 5th. But as you mentioned, Sean, let's start with the big one, Seth Jones. He's officially out for Team USA. He's not played since January 2nd. Anaheim Ducks defender Jackson Lacombe has been named to the team as a replacement. Rising star through USA Hockey. 25 years old, 6 foot 2, 208 pounds. Like, all these things going in the right direction for Jackson lacombe, but still a lot of people very upset and surprised that it wasn't laid. Hudson, what do you think? Sean?

Sean Gentile (4:56)

I do want to talk about Seth Jones just for one second. Everybody can feel good about the fact that he won a Stanley cup last year. Like, if the Panthers don't get that done, say there's like an alternate universe where the Panthers trade for Seth Jones, don't win the Stanley Cup. Then this season starts and Seth Jones, you know, gets hit by a shot in his upper body during the Winter Classic and misses out on the Olympics. We would be talking about one of the all time bad luck runs for anybody because Seth Jones has been a good player for a long time. USA Hockey loves him. He's a good, he's a good guy. He's spoken at length about how important it is for him to play meaningful games. Right. Whether it's in the Stanley cup playoffs or in the Olympics. And he hasn't, hadn't really had the chance. I'm, I'm glad that he's got that Stanley cup ring in his blood, in his back pocket, because if he wouldn't have, I think yesterday's news would have been even, even more, even more depressing for him on the replacement side of things. Man, I, the, the, the dialogue surrounding Lane Hudson is always, is always wild. I feel bad to some extent for Jackson Lacombe because he's getting caught in some of the, in some of the crossfire here. Right. He's a, he's a really good player on his own. Right. Obviously replacing Seth Jones. He was, he was Billy Garon's pick. We can talk about the merits of Lane Hudson. He's an incredible player. But I think what we need to do before any of that is laid down, the fact that Jackson Lacombe is really, really good. This is a, this is a second round pick who's like shot up in everybody's estimation over the last couple of years. I think he pays for playing in Anaheim. I think he gets dinged in the public eye to some extent for that, but I'm not surprised by this. He played at Worlds last year. He's coming. He's having another really, really good season. I talked to people about him after last season. He's one of those guys that scouts in analytics departments agree on. You know what? We. I had a scout that I trust tell me over the summer. I don't want you to think they're the same player, but Jake Sanderson and Jackson Lacombe are a lot closer than you think. I mean, that's a pretty, that's a pretty solid, a pretty solid recommendation. So I think it does start there to some extent. Right. Like we, we need to, we need to lay down the facts and say that Jackson Lacombe is, is a pretty good player in his own right before we have the Lane Hudson discussion.

Haley Salvian (7:23)

Well, I don't think anyone's saying Jackson Lacombe is bad.

Sean Gentile (7:26)

People absolutely are. They're not. Not, not bad.

Haley Salvian (7:28)

Well, those aren't people who are sharing like opinions based in fact.

Sean Gentile (7:32)

I think player. I think it's because it involves Lane Hudson who's, who's such an unaesthetically pleasing player who plays for a marquee team with a gigantic fan base who's on the. In the team itself is obviously on the upswing. I think in. Also, Lane Hudson to some degree has been disrespected over the last couple of years. Whether it's, whether it is by, you know, Team USA or whoever Else. So I think there is like this underlying, you know, tone to Lane Hudson discourse on the Internet that leads people to, you know, stake out even particularly irrational positions. But man, I, I think when you, when you look at it a little bit deeper, is Lane Hudson ceilings higher than Jackson Lacombe's like absolutely 10 years.

Haley Salvian (8:16)

We're also talking about an injury replacement for Seth Jones. We're not talking about replacing Quinn Hughes.

Sean Gentile (8:23)

That's right.

Haley Salvian (8:24)

With Jackson Lacombe, like to play the devil's advocate, we are seeing like one player L& a player with a similar build or playing style or a similar puzzle piece being put in the lineup instead. So if the reasons why like and look. So I understand if you're USA Hockey fan and you took issue with the Seth Jones selection in and of itself because you wanted more skill on the back end or whatever. And sure you're going to be upset again because it's like, well, you had a chance to correct this wrong and bring in another skilled player because you need to score goals at the Olympics. I get it, I do. But like, this is very clearly Bill Garon in the USA Hockey brain trust saying, okay, we need to get some more like size and defense and two way ability. And with what we lost in Seth Jones and Jackson lacombe checks that box like he and Lane Hudson are very different players. Lane Hudson is the more like offensively dynamic, skilled guy. But that's clearly not what they were looking for in this injury replacement or in that roster spot in the first place having selected Seth Jones.

Sean Gentile (9:33)

Yeah, and I don't mean to slag Lane Hudson either. The dude has a plus 12 net rating, right. Like he is a Nordisk candidate this year.

Haley Salvian (9:40)

That is lagging. Anyone? It's just that is, this is what that is wanted to do.

Sean Gentile (9:43)

That is a fact. Lane Hudson and he's a, he's a better defensive player this year than last. So yeah, all credit to him. But when you look at it, Haley, you said this. I mean, Jackson will come 6:2. I think that makes him alone, you know, an attractive candidate for Bill Garrion in Team usa. But there's, there's certain things under the hood where, where this, that make this decision make even more sense. Like Lane Hudson, he allows tons and tons of zone entries. This is a, this is according to Corey Snyder's zone zone tracking data, tons of zone entries on, on Lane Hudson. Now does he prevent goals at a disproportionate rate despite those zone entries against him? Absolutely. But teams are getting chances against him, right? And he is whether he's good at mitigating that, that risk factor, that's part of his game. But, you know, opponents are gaining the zone against him at a really, really high rate. Not the case with Jackson lacombe. Jackson, elite at puck retrievals in elite at zone exits. Like, these are the kind of things when you're talking about it, maybe a third pair in an international tournament. I think these are things that are attractive. And Jackson Lacombe, again, you know, his production maybe is a bit down from last season, but this is a guy who's shown some real, like, high end skating ability. High end, you know, in projects, as a guy who's, who's maybe not going to be a Lane Hudson level producer down the line, but close enough to it. I mean, this is a really, really good player. And I think you can pretty fairly and pretty convincingly argue that he's, you know, the, it's certainly a viable choice given what Garen was faced with. This is not leaving Adam Fox off the roster entire. This is not, you know, disrespecting Jason, Rob Robertson to some degree. This is, this, of all the controversial Bill Garon decisions, this is the one I, to me, that makes the most sense.

Haley Salvian (11:34)

Yeah, I didn't, Yeah, I feel like I agree with you. I didn't have a huge problem with it. Again, because I don't. I didn't see a world in which Bill Garon was going to say, okay, never mind, let's actually go get some skill instead. Like when it's Seth Jones going out, you think they're going to go and grab a comparable guy and Jackson McComb hits those marks and he's a guy who's like, been in the USA Hockey space for a while and that matters. He had two goals at last year's World Championships, one gold for the first time in a long time. Like, that kind of stuff matters to USA Hockey. He's been there, done that in a way. He's only 25 years old and he's been like a rising star through the American hockey ranks. So I, I, yeah, I, you can take issue and we can debate whether or not they should be going for more skill on the blue line. Sure. I think that's a totally different debate than the one we're having here because it's like very clear what they were trying to do.

Sean Gentile (12:29)

And if Quinn, if Quinn, if Quinn Hughes or Zach Orancy gets hurt tomorrow, then we can have the Lane Hudson discussion. But yeah, for, for now, this makes enough sense.

Haley Salvian (12:37)

Yeah. Not to Play Devil's out the kit for Bill Guerin, because I thought the Adam Fox cut sucked for Jason Robertson, but in the Jacqueline Lacombe case, I'm like, yeah, see the vision.

Sean Gentile (12:50)

I get it pretty good. It makes sense.

Haley Salvian (12:52)

Okay, very quickly, before we move on and we get to Julian McKenzie, he's going to join us here shortly. Are we worried for team Sweden?

Sean Gentile (13:01)

I think we're past the point of being worried for, like, we're like going to like, do a 23 and me and see if I have some Swedish ancestry. Maybe they'll give. Maybe they'll give me a call. Can I get a passport in time for this? Like, maybe I could be on the team. This is.

Haley Salvian (13:15)

Here's some of the injury list. It's Jonas Brodin, Minnesota Wild D Leo Carlson, you know, superstar young Duck center Yoel Erickson, Ek, which Russo did say he should be ready in time for the tournament. But still, like, this is just the name. These are the list of players who are currently hurt right now. Victor Hedman, Eric Carlson, Gabriel Landiscog. Oh, hey. William Nylanders. What is it his hip or his groins hurting him again? It's a groin thing that was a.

Sean Gentile (13:45)

Problem earlier in the season and is not back up. That is not trending positively for them.

Haley Salvian (13:49)

Where the leaves Oliver, Ekman, Larsson, he left last night. So that's a brand new one on the Swedish injury list. It's a good thing they have like depth and players that. There were some like, maybe egregious according to fans snubs. So maybe now we'll see.

Sean Gentile (14:10)

Simon Edmondson come on down.

Haley Salvian (14:12)

Olympics. Yeah.

Sean Gentile (14:14)

You know who they can't. You know who they can't replace? Leo Carlson?

Haley Salvian (14:18)

William Nylander.

Sean Gentile (14:19)

William Nylander. Like, I, I see the defensive depth. I think you can plug in guys like Edvinson and Campus Lindelman, you know, Matthias at Com. Potentially. Like they have guys on the, on the blue line if it. If it comes to that. But Leo Carlson was a. One of the early season. Like he was playing at an MVP level for the first huge 30, 35 games for the Anaheim Ducks. He was fantastic. And then he had a thigh injury that, that I think was, you know, nagging him that he ended up having a procedure on so he. He might be out. The idea of. Of a Leo Carlson not being in the Ducks lineup, that's. That's a huge issue. His lack of. And he in his production had dipped before the procedure too. So I think that's a big part of the reason we've Seen the Ducks take a tumble down the standings. But I think the idea of adding Leo Carlson, who profiles as that like number one, two way high end productive center to, to the Swedish lineup, that was the thing that they were missing. That was, that was the piece that they'd missed for, missed for the last, you know, couple generations of, of, of, of international hockey. Even at, even at, even at, even at four nations. Right. So the fact that he'd made that leap as a, as a 20 year old player is what made them super duper interesting to me. We knew they had the blue line, we knew they had guys like Nylander and whoever else, but the idea that you had that young, you know, alpha dog kind of dude at the top of the lineup is, is, is what, is what really made them scary and what should have made them a legit gold medal candidate. Now it seems like, you know, they're hopeful to some degree that he's going to be back.

Haley Salvian (15:55)

But no, timeline's not Leo Carlson. No, they're not. They're not. That's the update that I was going to share.

Sean Gentile (16:02)

Great.

Haley Salvian (16:03)

The Swedish head coach says that Brodine and Carlson are unlikely to play for Team Sweden at the Olympics. He said this on Tuesday afternoon. I believe he said, well, you know what? More days I did. Extraordinary happens. But we are currently operating under the assumption that they will not be playing at the Olympics.

Sean Gentile (16:22)

Yeah, and that's, that's just a huge.

Haley Salvian (16:25)

Huge blow for Sweden. It looks like Headman has been back on the ice according to this update. Still hasn't played.

Sean Gentile (16:35)

Yeah, he hasn't played since December 9th. He had surgery on his elbow. Like this is, these are not minor things. Even the guys that are coming back, even the guys that they expect back, Gabriel Landiscog, players like that, they're coming back from serious injuries. These aren't, these aren't just, these aren't just minor things whether they're in the lineup or not. So yeah, I think, you know, to me it takes Swede, not. You can't remove them from the discussion, but I think they go from being a truly, truly viable threat to, you know, something, something wild would need to happen for them to be on top when all said and done. And it's disappointing.

Haley Salvian (17:13)

Yeah, I could have seen a Sweden, Canada completely Olympic gold medal game, but now maybe it'll be Canada versus Finland or something. Not Canada.

Sean Gentile (17:26)

Usa, Canada versus. At least Canada versus Italy.

Haley Salvian (17:29)

Yes. Who's to say that would be great for me. Throw Spain in there.

Sean Gentile (17:35)

All of my heritage, I'm anti Italy I'm anti Italy for this tournament because Frankie Corrado is not, not, not part of the mix.

Haley Salvian (17:44)

He'll be at home with his popcorn instead of the press.

Sean Gentile (17:47)

By, by, by his choice.

Haley Salvian (17:51)

Sorry, that was rude. That joke's not funny. All right, let's take a break. We got to get to Julian McKenzie. He's going to join us next to chat a bit about the Ottawa Senators. That's coming up next on the Athletic Hockey Show.

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Haley Salvian (19:59)

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Haley Salvian (20:51)

Foreign. To us now we want to hear from you. We're asking you to fill out a quick survey about you and your podcast habits by going to theathletic.com survey26. Three lucky entries will win a 100Amazon gift card too. So whether you're a long time listener or a new one, we want your feedback. Go to theathletic.com survey26. That's theathletic.com survey 26. The link is also in our episode description. All right, we are back on the Athletic Hockey show and our friend Julian McKenzie joins us now to chat a bit, a bit about the Ottawa Senators. He's got a book coming out too. Sean doesn't have a book coming out.

Sean Gentile (21:37)

It's been established. Yes. I don't know, but I do not have a book coming out.

Haley Salvian (21:40)

So we have to bring Julian in to talk a bit about that. But first, what's up, dude? How's it going? You're in Nashville right now?

Julian McKenzie (21:47)

Yeah, I'm in Nashville right now. The Sends are going to play against the Preds on Thursday night. So I'm there for, for that game. Hopefully you guys are doing well. Good to see you guys.

Haley Salvian (21:56)

Yeah. Do you like Nashville? That's like, I'm just like, who cares about me? I need to know what you think about Broadway.

Julian McKenzie (22:04)

I like it.

Sean Gentile (22:05)

The last time I've seen Julian in action on that. He likes, he likes Nashville.

Haley Salvian (22:10)

Julian, rip it up at Tootsies on the rooftop.

Julian McKenzie (22:13)

Tootsies is a really good time. That's as much as I'm willing to say on Tootsies. I do like Nashville. I had a great time at the, at the draft a couple years ago with you guys and yeah, it's good to be back. I'm really enjoying the city.

Haley Salvian (22:25)

So my tootsie story is one of the reasons why Dom Luchin and I are no longer friends. We are professional colleagues. So Dan Robson shows up at Tootsies.

Sean Gentile (22:39)

Yeah.

Haley Salvian (22:39)

And he has this cowboy hat that a friend made for him for free. And he's like, do you want this cowboy hat? And I said, yes, I do. I would Love it. I'm wearing this cowboy hat. I'm in my element. I'm finally enjoying Nashville. Dom comes up and says, where did you get this hat? He grabs it and he drops it off the roof by mistake. Cowboy hat's gone. I'm.

Sean Gentile (23:01)

I honestly don't think I knew that.

Haley Salvian (23:03)

Oh, my God.

Sean Gentile (23:04)

You know, like, really remember, Dom, like.

Haley Salvian (23:06)

Just kind of, like, threw my cowboy hat off the roof.

Julian McKenzie (23:08)

And I have. I have a question about that.

Haley Salvian (23:10)

And walked away and forgot, you know what.

Julian McKenzie (23:12)

What color was that hat?

Haley Salvian (23:14)

It was black because it was very cool. Did you find one on the street? Do you have my hat?

Julian McKenzie (23:20)

I don't know. I'm wondering about that because Dan Robinson. Because Dan Robson gave me this black hat he wore, like, I don't know if it was at Tootsies, but he gave. He was wearing this hat. He gave me this hat.

Haley Salvian (23:33)

And did you give it back to him at some point?

Julian McKenzie (23:36)

No, he let me have it. I have the hat.

Haley Salvian (23:38)

He must have had two hats.

Sean Gentile (23:39)

Rob carries around a suitcase of black cowboy. Ha. Wherever he goes. The world's sweetest man, Dan Robson.

Julian McKenzie (23:46)

So, like, that. That hat, that was like. I. I don't remember if that was, like, my first year in Calgary at that point, but, like, I had that. You know, it was the first year.

Haley Salvian (23:54)

Because the Stampede and stuff. You had my hat?

Julian McKenzie (23:57)

Yeah.

Sean Gentile (23:58)

And.

Julian McKenzie (23:58)

And I. And I left it in Alberta because I have a. A few cousins who live there, and I gave it to my cousin. It's like.

Haley Salvian (24:03)

You were like, I don't need this anymore.

Sean Gentile (24:04)

I don't need this any.

Julian McKenzie (24:10)

That's hilarious. Yeah.

Haley Salvian (24:11)

My cousin must have two hats or.

Julian McKenzie (24:13)

Yeah, it has to be, or Dom didn't throw.

Sean Gentile (24:16)

It was Julian. It was Julian standing on. On the street below the. Below the top floor. It's. It's so. It's easy. A cowboy hat falls perfectly on his head. Hey, free hat. Okay.

Julian McKenzie (24:26)

Oh, my God. Or.

Sean Gentile (24:27)

I don't know.

Julian McKenzie (24:28)

I just remember. I remember.

Haley Salvian (24:29)

Wow. I'm so glad I told that story. I had, like, an intrusive thought that said, you must talk about this cowboy hat right now. And halfway through, I was like, why am I doing this? I'm derailing the whole show. And now I'm really glad that we did this.

Julian McKenzie (24:44)

And now the hat is in Calgary.

Haley Salvian (24:47)

Alberta, where it belongs on rightful home. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never wore a cowboy hat to the Stampede, but I did wear fringe.

Julian McKenzie (24:55)

Okay, yeah. I'm not a. I'm not a fringe guy for Stampede, but I did enjoy the times I got to Wear a cowboy hat at Stampede. Those are good times.

Haley Salvian (25:04)

I love, I love that for you. Okay, I'll get it on the rails. I apologize, everyone. Even though I think the sisterhood of the traveling cowboy hat is incredible. I love this for us, you, me and Dan Robson and kind of Dom united forever. All right, let's get to the big news of the week. In Ottawa, Julian Lina Salmark revealed that he took a personal leave from the Ottawa Senators for mental health reasons in an interview with TSN's Claire Hannah. It's, it's a great sit down. Claire did an excellent job with a very like, difficult and personal subject. So I do recommend everyone take a look at that. Julian also wrote a story about this, so you can take a look at that as well@the athletic.com. normally I would say people or media members at least are very good at keeping people's personal lives private when it's a leave of absence like this. But because of the rumors that happened on social media, because of the Ottawa Senator's statement, everything became very public which led to Omar coming out and speaking about everything. So Julian just boots on the ground. You're around the team all the time. You're in Ottawa. How has all this been received since he came out and spoke? And just what did the last couple weeks been like in Sens land for you?

Julian McKenzie (26:24)

It's been a little while to measure all of this, right? I think from the player's standpoint, at least from the ones I've spoken to about the statement and how they received Linus since he's come back around them in the dressing room, he's been, it seems like he's been well received. A couple guys have told me that when they saw him for the first time after his leave, they hugged him, they gave him words of support. And with the statement, guys like, like Tim Stutzlin, Brady Tkachuk were among the first to say it was good on the part of the Senators to put that out there. That being said, you step out of the dressing room and you look at the team as a whole and you look at their place in the standings and the fact that since that leave from for Linus Hallmark, this team has kind of been free falling a little bit. They've been slowly lately, I think the way they played against Columbus, they've tried to put themselves back on track. They also got a point against Detroit and against Montreal the last couple of games too. But we're talking about a team that they had a 76% chance of making the playoffs in Late December and they've plummeted since. And when you combine that with the fact that their goaltender is on leave in the statement that came out and the craziness that ensued online around that and the talk around this team, I would say that there's. There's been some heavier, some, maybe some tense times around this team. This team is hopefully trying to hopefully for themselves. They're. They're trying to get out of that tense time. But it's, I have to say, just like the mood around this team. It's been. It's been antsy. This is not the situation the Senators expected to be in at all, where Levy Maralainen, who earned the backup role for this team with the way that he played last year, is likely going to be number three from here on out with James Reimer holding the fort. And you could make the argument that a goalie of James Reimer's caliber should have been signed as a tweener much earlier in the season. But the Senators are in the spot that they're in right now. And even when Linus Elmer comes back, like, I think, I think a lot of people in Ottawa are obviously going to be happy for him. And I think him being able to talk that honestly about his feelings, he deserves some credit for that. He deserves all the credit, I think, for being able to speak honestly and speak bravely. But once that applause ends, that ovation ends, everyone's going to look at him and say, hey, are you going to do enough to get this team back in the playoffs? This is still a goaltender with. It was in the top three, in the worst goal saved above expected. Like, there's a lot of pressure riding on the goaltending position to help the Senators get themselves back in the playoffs or else they're entering a Tuesday scenario where they miss the playoffs and they don't have a first round pick. It's a, It's a pretty tense time, I would say.

Haley Salvian (29:19)

Yeah, it's difficult because everyone, you know, wants to give Linus all Mark, like, the space to take care of himself. Like, I listened to the interview, I read the quotes and, you know, I'm happy that he has taken that time and that he felt like ready to go and take that leave and he's getting like the help that he feels that he needs because I don't know. And then just to know that there's all these rumors going around while this is someone who is dealing with, like, mental health issues, like, it just makes the whole situation even worse. Like, it's just Very difficult to imagine what Linus Almark is going through. But then of course, once he does return, it probably will turn a little bit quicker to the like, okay, now that you're back, like, what are you doing for me lately? And if he is ready to return, like whenever he feels comfortable to do so, I just hope that he's like, okay. And the like, pressure that comes with it, like doesn't make it worse for him, if that makes sense. Like, that's where my mind goes is like, this is someone who's dealing with mental health issues and he's gonna come back to play eventually and the like anxiety and the stressors and the pressure is going to be like almost even worse. So I just feel for Lina Salmark and hope that he's okay. Sean, you had something to say though.

Sean Gentile (30:41)

I'm sorry, I just. The added layer of unfortunate. Unfortunateness is Marilyn's play. I mean, he's 11 games since Omar's. Since Omar left the lineup, Maryland is 4, 6 and 1. He's got an.847 save percentage and nearly nine goals saved below expected, which is only behind Jonathan Quick in that, in that time frame. And we, we know how, what we've seen from Quick and the Rangers since Shiserkin left the lineup. So I, I think that's been an. It seems like from the outside two things it's been an exacerbating factor for the overall circumstances surrounding Olmark and surrounding the sins is is this goaltender play. And also it seems like it kind of is. You know, it's. It seems like the primary issue at hand is, is that, is that they're not getting, you know, particularly competent play from, from Mary Line and who by the way started with 10 straight games or something like he's, he's, he's overworked now on top of, on, on top of not playing well. So I'm just wondering, Julian, like from your perspective, you know, from me, someone who doesn't necessarily watch the Ottawa Centers every night, I'm just like, oh, this is a team that's getting a run of poor goaltending play at kind of the worst possible time. And that's the main factor, you know, in them losing six, their last nine or, or whatever it is. Is that how you see it in, in your purview? Are there other things on ice that are going wrong with this team aside from, aside from, from the goaltender player or is that, you know, at the top. It truly at the top of the list by itself in terms of factors that are at Play here.

Julian McKenzie (32:25)

I understand if this isn't the best way to describe it, but I think up until now, whatever issues popped up for the Ottawa Senators is kind of felt like a game of whack, a mole. Where at one point there was an issue with them scoring at 5 on 5. That's supposed to be a strength of theirs. At one point there was an issue with them on the power play. Another point, actually, one other thing that's been kind of dominant throughout this season is their penalty kill, which is among the worst in the league, particularly on the road. But underlying all of that was the goaltending. You go back to the beginning of the season where training camp, where, where Lina Solmark expresses that he's not at his standard and he literally says, like on day two of training camp, that he had a terrible showing. And there are some things that might need to be worked out for next season between him and goaltending coach Justin Peters. Levy Maralainen, since training camp, since preseason, also wasn't at his 100% best. His first game of the year is a bad game against Buffalo. And then he gets sent down to the AHL just to kind of get his confidence back. Like the goaltending, it's been a season long problem for the Ottawa Senators. There have been points where both of those goaltenders had moments where they were seemingly getting themselves back on the right track. But these last few weeks have really shown that if this team had average level goaltending or anything close to that, they would be in a much different spot compared to being near the bottom of the Eastern Conference. You look at their team save percentage, it's been at the bottom for most of this season. And I'll give, I'll give a shout out to my colleague Callum Frazier from Post media, who's tweeted about this for the last couple of days. But we're not just talking about a team goaltending performance that's bad for this season. You can go back the last 30 years. Yeah, it ranks among the worst that we've seen in the league. Like the Senators, this is not a stretch of play of 5, 10 games where everything's gone bad at goaltending. This is a season long problem and if it ultimately, if the sentence missed the playoffs this year, we are going to point to that position that was supposed to be of strength as a major weakness, as a major reason why this team didn't get the job done.

Haley Salvian (34:52)

And this is not like I covered the Ottawa Senators, what, like six, seven years ago now, five years ago now, I don't know. These were the issues that I was writing about when I come to the Ottawa is crazy. So this is just like Groundhog Day. In a market that has not been able to find any goalie stability since Craig Anderson left his prime. Like, the amount of goalie churn. Here's our savior, this guy's our savior. Here's the young stud. All of them are gone now, like, and maybe thriving in other markets. So I just think, like, the ability to like, retain top goaltenders, find top goaltenders. It has not been good. Like, Linus all Mark was going to be the guy. And he said in the Claire Hannah interview, like, he's been struggling since the trade. And that's something that we, like, hear from players who struggle post trades or you hear from athletes saying, like, we don't know what goes through these people, people's minds or what's going on in their lives when they're traded. Like, it's very difficult for these people to be traded. And Lena Salmark said he's been struggling since getting traded from Boston. So I just think this is another year in which the Sens haven't been able to figure it out between the pipes. And it's not a new problem. And again, it's just like, I just feel like they've historically just picked the wrong guy. And it's easy to sit here now and in hindsight and be like, maybe you shouldn't have given up on Philip Gustafson, who's gonna start for Sweden at the Olympics. Or maybe Joey Decord was worth the keeping around. I'm not gonna go to bat for like Anton Forsberg and Philip Group hour just fine, you know, but like, Gustavson's been like a sore spot.

Julian McKenzie (36:42)

You're absolutely.

Haley Salvian (36:43)

For a little while.

Julian McKenzie (36:44)

The one thing, the one thing I'll just say though is like the Senators made the trade for a Vezina winner. They didn't. They didn't open a mystery box. They didn't make. They didn't open a mystery box and say, okay, well, this guy might be good. We're going to take it.

Haley Salvian (37:00)

I would agree with that now, for sure.

Julian McKenzie (37:02)

For sure. You could say, like, hey, you know what? Lina Sol Mark was in a tandem situation, Jeremy Swayman and all that. And there understandably. Which are questions. I'm not saying there shouldn't be questions about whether or not he should have been the right guy. My ultimate point is, is that in spite of all the goldtening issues, the Senators, I can understand why they would go to a Guy like Lena Solmark in that spot, he had a pedigree behind him from his days in Boston. That should have made him the answer. And yes, right now it hasn't looked like that.

Haley Salvian (37:34)

Yeah, I think the issue is, the.

Sean Gentile (37:36)

Issue is levy mira linen.

Haley Salvian (37:38)

Well, no, and I was gonna say, like I, I gave the Senators a lot of credit for like when they made the all mark trade of them just being like, we're done with this back and forth, like yeah, go tender stuff. So they deserve a lot of credit for going out and making the trade for the guy. It just hasn't worked out that way for, you know, a number of reasons that we still don't even completely understand if we're thinking about Lena Salt Mark.

Julian McKenzie (38:03)

Right.

Haley Salvian (38:04)

Let's ask one more question. Sorry to cut you off, Sean. We don't have that much time with Julian. I want to ask one more question about Brady. Could Chuck. We were talking about Team USA off the top. Let's ask about Brady now. I think like his brother Matthew just played his first game. The Chucks have obviously been a big topic. They were at four nations. They're going to be at the Olympics. So what can American fans expect, expect from Brady in Milan? Where is his game at right now?

Julian McKenzie (38:31)

I think for Brady, once he gets that opportunity to play with his brother, to play in some meaningful Team USA games, you're going to see a barrel and power forward. Very curious to see how that will play out on much smaller ice conditions compared to what we normally expect for the Olympic sized rinks. I know obviously with his hand, that's, that's been a, a point. It's been an issue. Obviously he was gone for 20 games earlier this year. He comes back. He's been very mindful of that. Not that he would have been able to fight anyway at the Olympic level, but clearly that's, that's something that kind of adds to his edge at the NHL level. I think for Brady, I think what you'll see from him is someone who will try to find a way to still impose himself himself, still be a bully at the Olympic level against other smaller players if he can. There's a reason why Ottawa Senators fans love him. There's a reason why the Sens obviously take pride in having him at the top of their lineup because of the fact that he's been such a solid power forward. And just these last couple games though, I do think that he maybe has been thinking about that thumb, just trying to make himself, make himself not be too hurt. And I think just some of that edge. It doesn't show itself nearly as frequently compared to when he is 100% and he is healthy. But I think Americans shouldn't be too worried once he's in the lineup for them.

Haley Salvian (39:57)

All right, Julian, we teed it up off the top of the show. You have a book coming out. This is very exciting. It's called Black Aces. It comes out on February 3rd with triumph. Do you want to give us a little.

Sean Gentile (40:10)

I didn't realize it was that soon.

Haley Salvian (40:11)

Holy cow. Next week. I know, it's crazy.

Sean Gentile (40:15)

Just don't think of February as being next week. I'm sorry.

Haley Salvian (40:19)

Yeah, that is kind of upsetting. Well, I guess next week's not. Is it February next week? It's like, I don't know. Comes out on February 3rd. Talk to Sarah Nurse. PK Suban, Anson Carter. It's an essential collection of stories from black hockey players, personalities and people. Julian, is there anything you want to say about your book before we let you go?

Julian McKenzie (40:39)

I just. I've seen a lot of people show off the copies that they've gotten already. A lot of people have been pre ordering and these books have been coming in early. So it should be available for everyone on February 3rd. But if you have a copy already. Thank you. Very appreciative of that. I. I hope people enjoy the stories that have been told. I. I took a lot of pleasure in. In chatting to some of the best hockey players in the world and Jerome McGinla or. Or PK or Sarah Nurse.

Haley Salvian (41:09)

Did you talk to her dad, Roger?

Julian McKenzie (41:12)

I didn't get to. I didn't get a chance to talk to her dad, Roger. And I really should have.

Haley Salvian (41:16)

He's my friend.

Julian McKenzie (41:18)

I should have. I honestly should have done that. But I do think that Sarah on her own was absolutely incredible going through her life story and up until where she is now and being a success in the PWHL and obviously her Olympic success, too, and getting other people around the league to talk about her as well. I thought that was really cool to. I'm really glad I was able to spend that time and talk to her. But also people like Dante Abercrombie, who will be trying to head the first men's hockey program at an. At a historically black college or university, or Kelsey Koestler, who got drafted first overall in the NWHL draft and is doing a great job at Arcadia University as a head coach as well. And then of course, people like Willie O'Ree and Herb Carnegie and a whole bunch of other different players through the years getting Profiled. I hope people enjoy it, and I hope people read it.

Haley Salvian (42:05)

That's awesome. I can't wait. I'm gonna have to buy a copy.

Julian McKenzie (42:09)

Yeah, I gotta find a way to get you a copy, man.

Sean Gentile (42:10)

I'd like to be. I'd like to be sent a copy.

Julian McKenzie (42:13)

Yeah, we got. We got to find a way to get you guys some copies, man. I want you guys to read the book.

Sean Gentile (42:16)

Free stuff.

Julian McKenzie (42:17)

Let's go do that.

Haley Salvian (42:20)

I got Craig to send Sean a copy of his book last year.

Sean Gentile (42:24)

Have you ever. Have you ever. Have you ever said this? Have you ever said this on the POD before? I don't think so.

Haley Salvian (42:30)

I, like, coordinated with Craig to send Sean a copy of his book with, like, an autograph on it. And it said, like, what did it say? Like, to Sean, dream big. Like, from. Like, from Craig Custis. Very formal. Very. Dream big, kid.

Sean Gentile (42:46)

And it was Reach for the Stars. Yeah.

Julian McKenzie (42:51)

One day. One day, Sean, you'll get it. You'll get it. Sean, I believe in you.

Sean Gentile (42:55)

No, I think I. I think. I think the peak of my career. The peak of my career and possibly in my life is getting a signed book from Craig.

Haley Salvian (43:03)

Well, you're about to get a signed book from Julian McKenzie. Julian, I'll hit you up.

Sean Gentile (43:08)

Appreciate that.

Haley Salvian (43:08)

A lot more mailing address, and we'll come up with, like, a funny thing you can sign it for. This is my favorite bit, is getting people to send Sean books, Having my.

Sean Gentile (43:17)

Friends send me books with very insincere inscriptions in them. Yeah, let's go.

Haley Salvian (43:25)

Reach for the stars. Love, Julian MacKenzie.

Julian McKenzie (43:28)

I can't wait to continue this tradition. I would be honored.

Sean Gentile (43:32)

It will. It will occupy a place of prominence in my home, and then. I can't wait to read it.

Haley Salvian (43:37)

As Sean's manager. I'll send you his P.O. box later, Julian.

Julian McKenzie (43:41)

Yes, yes. We'll make sure that. We'll make sure that happens.

Haley Salvian (43:44)

It's 1, 2, 2 Boogie Woogie Avenue. All right, we're going to take one more break, then we're out of here. Julian, thank you so much. Congrats on the book. Can't wait to read it. I hope my copy's in the mail. We'll be right back.

Julian McKenzie (43:57)

Thanks so much, guys.

Haley Salvian (44:03)

Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter?

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Jennifer (44:06)

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Haley Salvian (44:09)

Except Discover in a little place like this. I don't think so, Jennifer.

Jennifer (44:13)

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Sean Gentile (44:19)

Right.

Haley Salvian (44:20)

So we shouldn't get the parachute pants.

Jennifer (44:22)

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Sean Gentile (45:55)

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Sean Gentile (46:28)

All right, we're back. Yesterday was a good day on the website, as it always is when the PWHL player poll dropped. That's Haley, that's all you. You got more than 50 players I think. Was it, was it 51? The total here it was like over.

Haley Salvian (46:45)

A quarter of the league.

Sean Gentile (46:47)

That's a much better way to frame it. Like 50 is impressive, but a quarter of the league is is is next level stuff. And you ask them, of course, you know, you asked them the obvious burning topics, best player, most underrated player, expansion questions. Yeah, I, I, I think I know where you're gonna go here, but what was your, what was your favorite question to ask? And which ones, which one do you think got the best responses.

Haley Salvian (47:15)

Okay, so my favorite question. No, it actually ended up being like, what's your favorite comfort TV show? And that was the one where I so badly wish that I would have asked a couple players to, like, lift their anonymity because it makes it even funny. Funnier to know, like, who's saying these things. One player said that they've just been crushing Downton Abbey and there's just something really funny about, you know, a younger female watching.

Sean Gentile (47:45)

I really, I really, I really wish you could spill. I really wish you could spill. Who, who, who gave these answers.

Haley Salvian (47:51)

And there was also one player who just like, deadpan. And this was like the funniest interaction I had because, like, whatever, we have all these questions. One of them is like, what's the worst arena? What's the biggest issue in the sport? So we wanted to end the poll with like a light one. What's your favorite comfort TV show? You're away from the rink. What are you reaching for? And this player just looks me dead in the eye and goes, young Sheldon. And then we're both just silent for like five seconds. And then we both started laughing like, the recording of it was very funny. And she was just like, I bleep and love that show, man. And I was just like, okay, love that for you. Like, that's my mom's favorite show as well.

Sean Gentile (48:37)

So did you ask her for her thoughts on the greater Big Bang Theory expanded universe?

Haley Salvian (48:43)

No.

Sean Gentile (48:44)

Georgie and Mandy's first marriage? All the, all the shows that have come out of that stupid show, or is she just young?

Haley Salvian (48:50)

I think I was just, just so taken aback by her saying young Sheldon. And that was like the last question of the poll too. So we just kind of laughed and I was like, all right, well, thanks.

Sean Gentile (49:02)

You should also, you should specify too the. You this was a, this was kind of a long term project for you and you didn't get a lot of these responses before heated rivalry frenzy took over. Yeah, that's over the holidays. I feel like we probably would have gotten some different answers if would have asked for sure.

Haley Salvian (49:18)

This was. We started doing this in September and then wrapped in January and then it posted now. But so when I first started, a lot of players were like, a lot of players just like watching like the trending TV show. So there was a lot of like the summer I turned pretty binge watch is going on or whatever like Netflix documentary had come out at that time. One player just like loves to watch Dirty Dancing all the time. But anyway, that one was funny because it was Just like a kind of funny personality thing. But trash talk was a really fun one to do too. Sean, I know you mentioned that last.

Sean Gentile (49:57)

Time I did this poll.

Haley Salvian (50:00)

Last time I did this poll, Abby Rock was like the runaway winner. Everyone was saying her, she's the most annoying to play. Again, she runs her mouth. Now, two years into the pwhl, Emma Malte technically won. However, one player did write in a negative 1.4, Emma Malte. So if we take that into consideration, it's a tie. But Malte and Abby Rock were the number one and two. And Emma, if you've ever watched any of the mic dots, I should have linked it in the story because anytime she's miked up on cbc, we have a ton of content. Content to choose from because she is always talking. And Emma, on the record, I asked her about this, like, hey, you've, you're winning. You're winning the trash talk battle right now. Do you have anything to say for yourself? And she was like, I'm not trash talking, I'm just yapping. And that is what most players would.

Sean Gentile (50:56)

Say about like, like a, like a Pomeranian or something. Yes.

Haley Salvian (51:00)

Well, she's five foot two, she's very small, very nice. But I guess she gets on the ice and she just doesn't stop talking. So that's what a lot of the players were saying as well, is like, it's not really the quality of what Malte is saying, it's just the quantity in which she does it. So the trash talk one's always really funny.

Sean Gentile (51:21)

Which, which, which question got the answers that are the most important for. For fans reading this? Like, like, which. What set of responses do you think they should look at most closely?

Haley Salvian (51:33)

The runaway win for Poulin is the best player in the PWHL stands out. Like, we all know it. But when I did this poll a couple years ago, there was a lot more Americans, specifically, who thought, like, Hillary Knight should be there or people picking, like, goalies. And to be fair, the question was phrased a little differently that time. It was like, if the PWHL exists, who are you taking first overall? So some players were like, well, maybe I'll go for a goalie because Anne Renee Debian is better than anyone on the planet. So let me go there. But this time around, like 80% of the vote, everyone was saying Poulin. So there really isn't that much of a debate. She's really run away with that. So that's important. If you're like a Canadian fan and you're nervous about the Olympics because of rivalry series. Like, you're probably okay because Canada has the best player on the planet on their team. And then I think best breakout player was probably a pretty important one, too. Hannah Bilka won that one and that's another player who will be important at the Olympics. She'll have a top six role on Team usa. She'll play on the power play. She's healthy. She was cut from the last world championship team. So I think we're gonna see, like a healthy and rejuvenated Hannah Bilka. She's got a ton of skill. If you see her on the line with like Abby Murphy and Taylor Heisey, they're just gonna go to town in the offensive zone. So those were big ones. Also asked about, like, where could you. Where do you want the league to expand next? And kind of the usual suspects. One out there, Detroit, Denver, Chicago were the top three. And then a lot of players said, like, kind of goofy, like, let's go to Nashville or let's go to Florida. Like, I would like.

Sean Gentile (53:09)

Hockey players love Nashville. Hockey players love.

Haley Salvian (53:11)

I'd like to have a nice warm vibe on a. On a road trip in the middle of February. And we should say, because I did get some comments on this. This. Most of this poll was completed before the DC obviously before the DC Showcase. So I do think if I would have started asking players after that, we would have gotten more from. More love for dc.

Sean Gentile (53:32)

It's interesting.

Haley Salvian (53:34)

DC is going to be a super interesting option for PWHL expansion. So those are the big ones, Sean.

Sean Gentile (53:42)

There's three separate stories up on the site. I always love. I always love reading these. Man, I'm a sucker for an anonymous poll, whether it's NHL players or PITA players or whatever. So, yep, it's worth everybody's time.

Haley Salvian (53:52)

All right, thanks, Sean. Thanks for the plug. Seven games in the NHL tonight. The next episode of the Athletic Hockey show is Monday. But on Sunday, look out for a special drop here on the Athletic Hockey show feed. We're sharing an exclusive, exclusive interview with Brady Tkachuk, who recently sat down with Pierre Lebrun for a special segment on the Athletics Show. That's the Athletics weekly sports show airing on Amazon Fire and YouTube. Check it out and stay tuned Sunday on our feed wherever you get your podcasts for that interview. Thanks everyone for listening to this episode. Sean and I will be back next Thursday.

Sean Gentile (54:31)

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Jennifer (55:29)

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Haley Salvian (55:40)

They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs?

Jennifer (55:42)

Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Geth with the times.

Haley Salvian (55:49)

With the times. You're playing the loot.

Jennifer (55:53)

Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?

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