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- [00:00]
A
Thy ticket, Lady Jennifer of Coolidge. Well, many thanks, good sir. Here is my Discover card. They accept Discover at Renaissance Fairs? Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Get it with the times. With the times. You're playing the loot. Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?
- [00:23]
B
Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.
- [00:30]
C
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- [01:27]
D
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- [02:12]
E
This is the athletic hockey show.
- [02:20]
F
Foreign.
- [02:27]
B
Gentile here. This is the Athletic Hockey Show. It is Thursday, March 19th. I got the date right again. Despite producer Jeff's best efforts, put March 12th in the rundown. How dare you. You know, just read whatever's on this thing and not think about it. Join today by Don Lucia Haley Salvians at the Women's Frozen four. So we needed someone to fill in. That's Dom's job. Mike Russo is Also joining us a little bit later for some post GM meetings. Recap. But again, first off, hello, Dominic.
- [03:00]
F
Hello. How's it going? Always a pleasure to be here. Although it's annoying that I'm not here with both my friends. I gotta custody here.
- [03:11]
B
Yeah, yeah, we. I get. I get you on Wednesdays and every other weekend, I think is the way. Is the way the judge brought stuff down on us.
- [03:19]
F
Oh, I just want my parents back.
- [03:22]
B
It's okay. It's a new kind of family. Dawn. A little bit. It'll be okay, buddy. Pretty. You know what? I don't want to say it was a busy last night in the NHL, but it was fairly eventful. Let's take a spin there. But before we talk to Russo, who's again back in Minnesota after a few days in Florida. Tough life for him. Big news last night, Sidney Crosby's back. He'd missed 11 games post Olympics injury. That was a crazy Carolina overtime win over the Penguins. Shocking, shocking stuff there. It was truly crazy for two reasons. Sidney Crosby scored. Who could have seen that coming? And also the Pittsburgh Penguins lost in a shootout. I think those were two guaranteed outcomes at the start of that one, wasn't it?
- [04:10]
F
Yeah. And also a lot of goals considering the goaltenders were Stuart Skinner and Frederick Anderson. It was an exciting game. No lead felt safe at all for either team. We were messaging about it last night and I said, five, four, Penguins. Sean goes regulation win, question mark.
- [04:29]
B
No question mark, exclamation point. I was like, no, no. Simply impossible.
- [04:35]
F
No, not. Not today, folks. It is commendable that the Penguins keep getting these participation points. It's kept them in the hunt, but
- [04:48]
B
it'd be nice if they're 5 and 16 after the third period.
- [04:51]
F
Dude, it'd be nice if they won
- [04:53]
B
some of those one in ten in the shootout. Now, like this is.
- [04:58]
F
They're work a practicing one hour of shootouts.
- [05:02]
B
I think that's happening. I think it might just be bad at it. This is proof that no matter how much you practice at something, sometimes you just suck. And I think that might be what we're seeing here. It's gone past, like, it's gone past the. The bad luck, the. The bad luck and end of things.
- [05:18]
F
Bring back the leg kick, backhand.
- [05:21]
B
They need to just pick. They need to just move, move with speed again. I. That's my. That's my big theory is that the goaltenders have adjusted to the. To the slow play move and guys just need to start coming, coming as fast as they can go. It can't it can't go worse than anything we've seen from them otherwise.
- [05:41]
F
Traded for a shootout specialist. That's. That's the key right there.
- [05:44]
B
Dusted off Eric Christensen, Penguins Penguins legend. Who's the first player. Who's the first player to come to mind when you're like, shootout specialist.
- [05:54]
F
You see Okinan.
- [05:55]
B
Oh, man, the juice box. Two. Two Penguins legends. Bring them. Bring them back.
- [06:03]
F
Get TJ Oshi rivalry special out of retirement.
- [06:08]
B
Broadcaster extraordinary TJ Oshi. I think a big takeaway from that game for me is that. Is that something. Something bad has happened to Chris Letang. He's gotten progressively worse over the course of the season. On for two goals last night, 32, 10 Corsi disadvantages, shot attempt disadvantage for him in X goal share in the teens. Seen a little bit too much of that from him lately. I fear that the aging curve for him has gotten quite steep. We just spent the Wednesday show gassing up Eric Carlson, rightfully so, for how good he's been. But the flip side of the coin, when you're talking about, you know, aging formerly elite offensive defenseman is. Is Chris Letang. He's been. He's been rough.
- [06:56]
F
Yeah, it's been a tough go. Father Time comes for us all, and it's come for Chris Letang. And it is great that Carlsen's playing the way he has, because I think coming in the season, you expected both of them to be, like, pretty good, and instead you have one guy who's awesome and one guy who kind of stinks, and it sort of, like, averages out. Carlson, like, he's looking vintage every night. He's playing tough minutes for the Penguins and doing well at both ends of the ice. It's crazy to see. And it'd be like, you think of what this team could be if Latang could just turn back the clock two
- [07:36]
B
or three years, do something.
- [07:37]
F
Maybe, maybe that happens in the playoffs. Should they make it? That'd be something that can get them past the first round and maybe farther if they get a Carolina team they can score five goals on.
- [07:49]
B
We talked about Carlson a lot yesterday, like I said, but I wanted to ask you specifically here, like, in your purview, what has changed for him year over year? Because I think in some regards, you know, there are underlying numbers that are. They're similar, but, you know, there's a decidedly different feel about the ways he's gone about, you know, the process here.
- [08:10]
F
Yeah, well, part of it. He said himself earlier in the season, previous coach, we'll leave him Unnamed wanted him to be something he's not. And Carlsen's at his best when he can just be himself. And he's not only had the free rein to do that this year, he's had a partner who allows him to do that. And I think having someone who's defense first, who's steady, who's solid, who's got the Mark Mattho energy, I think has always been where he's been at his best, where he doesn't necessarily have to worry about being this defensive stalwart because that's not his game and he can really bring the heat offensively, do a lot on his own. He still has his fastball in that way and I think being able to play that way and having the support has allowed him to not have as many defensive screw ups as years past where the confidence is up. And yeah, he just, I wouldn't say he was bad previously. He just looked like he was getting that age curve feel that we're seeing with Latang, where he just wasn't himself anymore. This looks like a return to form.
- [09:17]
B
He was getting big mistaked. I, I think, I think that's what was going on with him last year, which, like, maybe not necessarily enough to push, you know, the underlyings in a truly, in a truly brutal direction, but the mistakes that he was making were egregious and costly. Like, like the sequencing of the mistakes were, were also, were also bad. Right. So a lot of them were happening in third periods, you know, with, with one goal leads. And I think that's a, that's a big part of what's, what's changed the dialogue around him so far. Okay, The Ottawa Senators 41 loss to the Caps last night. They got goalie. This is, it's Logan Thompson was incredible again, 34 saves.
- [09:59]
F
Ottawa Centers got goalied.
- [10:00]
B
Can you imagine Such a thing? 34 saves on 35 shots for Thompson. More than three goals saved above expected. I think he's, I think he's tops in the league in that category at this point. Probably, probably going to be a Vezna finalist. Will certainly deserve it. But to me this loss is about the sens. I know there's a lot of people who are freaking out about what it means for their, for their playoff, for their playoff hopes. You know, people are throwing out. They got to go 11, 0 and 2 and whatever else. Dom, I know on your playoff odds there though, things are looking a little bit rosier. So explain because I think that deviates from what we've seen, you know, from, from the larger body here.
- [10:44]
F
Yeah, they. They have to start getting some wins together and they have to start turning this massive possession advantage and defensive ability into actual wins. But they still have a 45% chance because I don't think they have to go 11, 2 and 2 or whatever it is. They have to probably get to 97 or 98 points, which is a little easier than that. The big thing is that the teams ahead of them are not.
- [11:16]
B
You can say it, you can say it.
- [11:18]
F
It's a pile of mid in front of them. And there's two teams I think that are catchable. And honestly, other than Tampa, Carolina, Buffalo, maybe in Montreal, I don't think any of the next four are as safe as the record might feel. And you look what they're on pace for. I think Boston's on pace for like 100 or something points. I don't think they're going to land there because of how difficult their schedule is going forward, how much they've been out chanced this season. Their schedule. They're playing, I think the second toughest schedule league. They have a lot of road games where they've been particularly brutal this year where it wouldn't be hard to see Boston fall off and Ottawa take over. The issue is that there's still Columbus lurking there. They just have to hope that one of these teams falls off. And I think the chance is. Was good before last night's loss. Now it's a little less good. They've dropped from like 55 to 45%. They're on the bubble. They can still make it happen. They just need these teams that don't look great on paper to actually start looking apart because they're. They continue to rack up wins in,
- [12:32]
B
in some ways, the Bruins, man, I'm trying to, I'm trying to find certain wins for them on the schedule moving forward. I don't. They got the jets tonight. You know, maybe you can write that one in pencil. Maple Leafs on March 24. Other than that, it's a bunch of teams that are either in the playoffs or have played like they could conceivably be there over the last little bit. I'll. I'll throw Florida and Philadelphia in there honestly too, because they've, they've been, you know, decent for, for the last, for the last few weeks in both those cases. So yeah, man, there's a, there's a. If there's one team. And I think that this is kind of the upshot for me if you're, if you're talking about, you Know, Ottawa, maybe to a lesser extent, Columbus. You know, they're. They certainly look like a better bet if there's one team that you could maybe pick off. To me, the primary target should be Boston. And I don't know. And maybe I'm giving the Detroit Red Wings too much credit because they'd be out of the playoffs today based on points percentage. And God knows we've seen what's happened to them in March over the last couple of years. But if you force me to say, you know, one of those two teams in the wild card based on points today is going to fall out and you can only pick one, I still kind of think it would be Boston too.
- [13:54]
F
Yeah. And I think looking at the schedule, the fact they have two road games against Columbus probably works against their favor with the way Columbus is playing since Rick Bonus took over. The fact both those games are on the road where we already said Boston struggles, those are huge four point games in the wild card race. And you'd probably lean in Columbus's direction right now. And that is obviously must win territory. Detroit as well. Again, another road game where it's one reason to feel a bit more optimistic about Detroit's chances instead, because that should be a game the Red Wings win this Saturday.
- [14:34]
B
Dallas, Colorado, though we saved the best for last, that was the marquee matchup of the evening, I would say. Who Dallas wins. Colorado got goal aid. Jake Ottinger. Big, big game. Dallas is now within two points of Colorado, which is crazy. In that game though, man, Colorado outshoots Dallas 2712 at even strength 34 18. Overall, they had an excellent share of 64% at 5 on 5. Scott Wedgwood was, Was also. Was fine. Right. Like, I don't think that's a, that's an instance where you can blame the loss on the goaltender. Dom, do you have any degree of concern about the Colorado Avalanche right now? Because we just spent part of the Wednesday show, you know, edging around the idea that maybe, you know, this is. They've been a 90 point team since, you know, January 1st or whatever is. Are you feeling the same way about them?
- [15:29]
F
I'm still feeling confident about Colorado. I think they're probably the best team in the league and as long as Landiscog is in the line for the playoffs, I think they'll be okay. Their record without him this year is comically low given the rest of the skill on the team.
- [15:47]
B
They.
- [15:47]
F
They really just need to get their power play working. I thought Kadri would have a bigger effect Immediately, but they're still working through it. That the game looked a lot like last year's first round loss against Dallas, where they got injured almost every night, and they carry the run of play. They just couldn't find a goal. And that part worries me a little bit. But it feels like even last night was more overwhelming than what we saw last year. That I, I know. I think it's fine. I feel better with Mackenzie Blackwood in net, and I was a bit surprised that Wedgwood got the start after getting shelled on Monday, but I don't know. I, I, they'll be fine. They're Colorado, they saw McKinnon, Makara. They have unreal depth. It'll be okay.
- [16:38]
B
We're gonna clip that one and save it whenever they lose in the first round.
- [16:41]
F
Oh, great. Let's go to the first round and the first round.
- [16:46]
B
The second round. No, they're gonna, they're gonna lose this. They're gonna lose a Seattle or whatever. Yeah, sure.
- [16:50]
F
San Jose. That'd be sick.
- [16:53]
B
I'll take that. I'll, I'll take a San Jose, Colorado, first round matchup until it's over in 15 minutes. Give me all that. Let's go to Russo. He's. He's back in Minnesota from Florida with everything you need to know about the GM meetings. We'll be right back.
- [17:11]
A
Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter? Right. And the best part, they accept Discover. Except Discover in a little place like this? I don't think so, Jennifer. Oh, yeah. Huh? Discover's accepted where I like to shop. Come on, baby. Get with the times.
- [17:27]
B
Right. So we shouldn't get the parachute pants.
- [17:30]
A
These are making a comeback, I think.
- [17:34]
B
Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report. Knock knock. Ooh, who's there?
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A
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A
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F
You call that a knock knock joke?
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B
This isn't a joke.
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A
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B
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F
Okay. It's just that when people say knock knock, there's usually a joke to go with it.
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B
Like I said, this isn't a joke.
- [18:00]
F
So the knock knock was just you knocking?
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B
Yeah, that's how doors work.
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F
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B
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- [18:45]
B
All right, we're back. We're joined by Mike Russo. He made the trip from West Palm beach back up to Minneapolis yesterday. That's a, that's a fun one. Have you gotten, have you gotten sick yet from the temperature change is the question?
- [18:57]
E
No, I haven't. I haven't. But lastly, the weather was crap down there. It wasn't like when you and I were there a couple years ago, but man, it was first of all ridiculous delay. Like it couldn't, there was like broken sinks on the plane. So then they started breaking in. Of course I knew exactly what was going to happen. An hour after they tried to fix, they're like, oh, we can't fix it. So we're going to put a bunch of wet naps in there. I'm like, is that like every, every regional jet I've ever been on like that. So just do it an hour.
- [19:25]
B
I've never been on with a, never been on one with a working sink. It's always like a half working toilet. Like it's okay.
- [19:31]
E
And then we had like ridiculous headwinds. So I mean that the flight just
- [19:35]
B
felt a commuter jet. Yeah, great.
- [19:37]
E
No, it wasn't a commuter jet, but it felt like it could have been great.
- [19:41]
B
All right, let's start, let's start with the funniest part about this. I saw a quote or a tweet from Alan Walsh yesterday that made a bunch of, made a bunch of waves, talking about a contentious exchange, screaming match of some sort between an unnamed general manager and Commissioner Gary Batman at the general manager meetings. One of your write ups with Pierre coming out of the meetings just came out and said it. According to leaked sources, hurricanes GM Eric Tulski raised the ire of Bettman when he suggested that the standard had slipped on headshots. The commissioner said to have retorted that it was Tulsi's team owner Tom Dundon who was making him bring that up. Whatever the case is, managers were buzzing about it after the meeting So I, I, please tell me everything you know about this exchange because I need more information.
- [20:28]
E
I will say I talked to a couple GMs yesterday at the airport that basically did tell me that it wasn't a shouting match that that he was level headed Tulsi, which you know, you would expect from him and measured in his tone. But he basically said that he felt like it was slipping that we were, that we mean the league was essentially you know, justifying, you know that's probably the wrong word but allowing, allowing headshots when they say unavoidable contact. And you know, I think we all know that Gary Batman is very sensitive to this topic for many reasons and, and basically retorted back with, with that accusation which had, I think, you know, kind of had had GMs buzzing as he said. But I think Tulski was standing up for what he think was what he thinks was right. Not not only just protecting his players but talking about the league in general. I respect it. I think it says a lot about his confidence right now. You know, being a youngish GM in this, this to, you know, nobody loves to go up against Gary, who we all know is the boss. I think what was more contentious with Pat Verbeek and, and his belief that that goalie interference standards are slipping. And I think they are. You know, like, like they brought us, they trotted all of us in media into that room last year and showed us the same video that they showed the GMs the bully interferences. And basically we came away from it with the belief that if you go into the crease on your own volition and make contact with the goalie, it's now on you and the goal is going to be disallowed. And then they allow the one with Spitzer the other day. I think Spitzer was even surprised. I know Pap Ravik was definitely surprised wise. And now it just opens up a real can of worms here because you know, he's these bully, these video judges, video coaches have major decisions to make in the playoffs and you want a standard that you are going to be confident on when the cost of that is a power play. And now, you know, I think it's back to like nobody knows what the, what the situation and I respect what goes on in that situation. I was just in Toronto last month or in January and sat in with those guys. I love doing it. I've done it probably about six or seven times and I think that they all do a great job in there. But I don't know what happened on this one. And I think it does open up a can of worms. And I think that's what some of the GMs are feeling right now isn't
- [22:51]
B
part of what they're trying to do. There is, like, gauging the intent of the goaltender. Like. Like, it seems like that's the can of worms that's been open when you're like, all right, the goalie. We think maybe the goalie was trying to sell a little bit. Like. Like maybe he was hampered, maybe he wasn't. And that just by definition, is going to make things more complicated. Right, because you're trying to gauge intent, you're trying to infer, you know, could he do his job? Like, could he not? And I. I was like, you. I think. I think we're on the same page there. At least as of last year, it seemed like that's the kind of thing that they were trying to move away from, was to try to make it a little bit more of a black and white thing, where it's like, if you go into the paint and you. You impede him at all. We're not going to try to guess like, it's. It's a penalty, but it doesn't seem like that's the way it's being called this year.
- [23:37]
E
Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. And I think there is something to it, right? You, you know, you don't want goalies flopping around left and right, but the way the rulebook is written, it is. There is, you know, if basically does say that you have to prevent the goaltender from being able to make the save. And so, you know, I. I get where the situation room there, they're trying to figure out, all right, did that really affect Husso for making that save? But I think that, you know, from somebody that didn't play the position, when you are all of a sudden offline because now you're right. Pad and skater being pushed back. I think it's hard to sit there and say that, that. That is not incidental contact and goalie interference by Spitzel in that situation. And now if this happens in the playoffs, it's a big problem. Now, Coley Campbell did say, look, this is not like the Brett hold days in 99 where you can't go into the crease. This is. You are allowed in the crease. But, you know, to me, this was one where he is driving the net. Husso's standing his ground and has no idea that he's about to be made contact with. He's in his blue. I Just think the smartest decision by the league here would have been just to disallow the goal. And now I think video coaches around the league are going to be real gun shy on Holy mackerel. What do we do here come playoff, right?
- [24:57]
B
We had Bettman, of course, he's, this is standard operating procedure for the general manager meetings. Comes out and defends the playoff format, says he's more than comfortable with it, gives us a sensational first round. Probably the best playoff first round in any sport, which I don't, I don't disagree with. But Mike, you, you tell me, you tell me if I'm off base here. I think part of the reason he likes, he likes the playoff, I think part of the reason he likes the playoff format so much is because it's important that they make the product as good as it possibly can be when you have 16 fan bases that are engaged, right? Like, because we've, we've, we've seen year after year that it's really tough for the NHL to capture a larger American audience. So you, so you might as well lock in, you know, the Sabers in the wild and Pittsburgh and all these markets that, you know, can float the, the TV number as much as you possibly can. And that's the easiest way to do that is, is in the first round. So of course Gary Vetman likes the first round. This is the, this is not news.
- [25:58]
E
Yeah, well, you know, he almost said the, the, you know, dirty little secret out loud yesterday. The longer you know it is true, like when you look back to, like back to 2013 to now, to the conference finals, Conference finals have been pretty uncompetitive and don't go past six or seven, six games. You know, I think it's like 27 of games have gone to 70. So like, I mean, you know, I covered that Carolina Florida series with you last year. It wasn't very competitive. The one three years ago was certainly not that I did in a sweep. And, and this is what happens. I personally think that when you have 16 fan bases in it, that if you did one for eight, all those eyeballs would be on it as well. And I think the playoffs, just the first round is by, by, by nature in this league is going to create for the best, best product on the ice. I think that you're going to have upsets and things like that anyway. Like even Bill Guerin said to me, who's a big, you know, is a big proponent of 1 verse 8. He said, look, be careful what you wish for. Anybody could beat Anybody on any given night. But what he likes is the competitiveness, the fact that all the eyeballs are on it and that the first round matchups can go long. But I don't think that helps the Dallas Stars, Colorado Avalanche and Minnesota Wild owners or fan bases to be happy when all of a sudden they're potentially out after round one and certainly round two. It's, it's insane that they have a format where potentially the top three teams in the league could be that two of them are going to face in the first round and one are going to be out after two. It's just a fact. And, and, and I'm just shocked that Gary, who's the lone proponent of this, that I. Because anytime you ask any, first of all, any fan hates it. You know, GMs I talked to don't like it. Players and coaches don't like it. I think league executives don't like it. Gary likes it. And we know that Gary is the boss. Even though the owners are the ones that are potentially, like, he's just somehow convinced them that it's better. And look, to your point, Sean too, like, we see it in our athletic numbers, right? I mean, true, like, like as the, as the playoffs go along, our numbers go down and down. And it's because hockey fans in general are provincial. If you're a Minnesota Wild fan, if you're a New York Rangers fan, if you're a Buffalo Sabres fan, you want to read and watch your team, but once your team's out, you don't really pay attention to the conference finals.
- [28:18]
B
It doesn't matter if the Columbus Blue Jackets are playing in a really captivating seven game series. Like, you just, you just don't care.
- [28:23]
E
And I think that's how Gary feels. I think they must have the analytics to show that this is the way to go. But just say that like, if you have a competitive situation here where the regular season does mean nothing, in this situation, you know, I just said this on another show. Like, like, to me, this isn't. I, I've covered this league since 95. I covered back when you played inside your Division 6, eight times sometimes. Okay, that is, that would make for a smart divisional format playoff system. But, but right now the, the schedules are essentially balanced. It's idiotic. In fact, the fact. And it's because there's so many teams, but the fact that you are essentially inside your division playing three or four times. So if you're playing teams in your side of the division three times, it's the exact number of times you're playing in the other side of your conference. So essentially you're all playing essentially the same schedule. And the fact that you could play 82 games like that and then not have a one through eight, that you're going back into a divisional format, it makes absolutely no sense.
- [29:26]
B
It's built, it's built on, it's built on a fallacy that these are, that these are already just by nature great rivalries because they're in the same division. That's not necessarily true. Good rivalries come from frequency of competition. And if that, that should happen during the regular season, it does not. And because it doesn't, regular season rivalries have, like, what's the. There's historical rivalries. Right? But, but you remember when we'd randomly get bits and pieces where two teams, just because they, they face each other so frequently in the regular season, wound up hating each other? That's what, that's where the fun is. It's not because there's a chance that they play each other in the playoffs every now and then.
- [30:06]
E
Well, here, here's the, here's another little example, all right? If the NHL was running the Olympics by their standards, with a playoff format that Canada and the US Would have played in the quarter, but yet, you know, in the World cup next year, when the US And Canada go up to Calgary for the round robin, that the league is going to do everything possible to try to make sure that those teams are going to wind up. So why are you doing that if this is the playoff format that you're going with in your actual 82 game season? It's just, you know, again, it's, it's money and it's. I look, I usually actually, like, you know, there are a lot of agents out there, definitely the, the players association that over the years have accused me of being an apologist for Gary Betts. I usually do agree with a lot of things. This is the one bone that I've had with him for a while on this, and I think he's just stubborn here and he just doesn't want.
- [30:58]
B
No, you know, not, not Gary me.
- [31:01]
E
Yesterday when I, when I got him going on this subject, I think he just essentially admitted it, that, you know, like the first round in the NHL,
- [31:08]
B
it was as close as I've ever. It was as close as I've ever seen him come to. Just like, I get it.
- [31:13]
E
Like, I watched the NBA and my God, I mean, they talk about an uncompetitive first round round. Like, I mean, it's just you know, I, I get, I get it. But I think you're going to get that in any system because this sport is just, you know, it's tremendous. The first round series are always going to be the best. By also nature of how physical the sport is. You know, by the time, by the time, I mean, I covered that Florida Vegas Stanley cup final, I mean there are guys on the Florida team that couldn't walk. I mean it was unbelievable the number of major injuries that players are playing through. It is just a, it's, it's an abusive game that, that as the, as the rounds go go further, you're just going to get beat up here. So I think in the first round, no matter what system you're gonna have, you're gonna have upsets, you're gonna have competitive hockey no matter what. But to me, to have a setup where you're gonna have the top three teams in the division have a much harder path to, to make the Santa final than Utah or Anaheim is just absolutely ridiculous. And the fact that, that Gary just continues to be a proponent on this is insane. And I just think it's ridiculous that the owners who are his boss essentially, you know, don't step up and, and point this out and, and change the system. I mean, it's just ridiculous.
- [32:28]
B
Let him cook.
- [32:29]
F
It's priorities in the wrong place. And it's just very annoying as someone who lived through it in Toronto for a decade. And Minnesota and Dallas and Colorado are going to live through it as well. And it just feels like force feeding rivalries instead of letting them develop organically. And I think part of the way they develop is that the intensity builds as you go through the playoffs and you think of probably the greatest rivalry during the 90s, which is Detroit, Colorado. They didn't meet in the first round, they met in the second or third round because they're the best teams in the league. And because there was a Stanley cup final birth online, a conference final berth online, those rivalries became more intense and you're not going to get the same thing in the first round.
- [33:14]
E
Yeah, I agree with you, Dom. I am so distracted by how cool your condo is. It's ridiculous. I mean, very high ceilings, hockey show playing. You guys.
- [33:25]
B
He's getting Russo money, baby.
- [33:26]
E
Come on. I got the guitars hanging up the records Waff feel downtown Toronto. Oh my goodness.
- [33:34]
B
But before we let you go, just like last, last thing because I know you got a roll. George Pero stands by his work. He said that Gary Bettman does too. Are there any changes Coming in your foresight, even a minor one, like adding a former skill player to that group. Like, is there is, is something, is, is anything going on?
- [33:56]
E
Well, Ray Whitney used to be part of the group. I'm not sure if he still is. I mean, Ryan Getzlas part of the group now. I, I, the one thing I'll just say is that until the NHLPA is the one that really, you know, goes to the league and wants changes, it's not going to change. I mean, it's always, you know, just kind of like, you know, the dynamic's always crazy in pro sports, right? You have a commissioner that's essentially hired by the owners, but yet he's the boss. And it's the same thing. You have the NHLPA when it, when an injury like this happens, it's like they got to be a proponent for both Austin Matthews, but also they have to be a conduit for Rocco Gutis. And so it's just this weird dynamic, but they're the ones that collectively bargain this system here. And the fact, you know, I think that the reason why they went the max to five games is because now if there's a, if there's a appeal, it goes right to Gary and not to a neutral arbitrator. I don't, just don't think the league wanted to go through that process again, because it does seem, especially after the Ryan Hartman one, that the PA is going to appeal everything to a neutral arbitrator. And it just creates, frankly, creates a lot of paperwork. You know, Gary just wants to employ the last month.
- [35:08]
B
No, I'm just being everyone everyone hates, everyone hates paperwork.
- [35:11]
E
Yeah, yeah, I know. It's like I was reading the Ryan Hartman thing after Gary wrote. I'm like, my God, I, I'd be ticked if I was this year and had a right to synopsis and, you know, depositions, all that stuff. So anyway, I, I just think until the NHLPA wants a change, they're, they're, they're just going to side with, with the process that Gary that George Perros has here. You know, the reality is historically here, you know, there has not been a ton of being like, when I covered the league in the 90s. It was a freaking epidemic. This was not your typical ning, you know, this one, this was, wasn't even your typical Rocco Gudas knee. This. He was trying to go stick on puck. He was offline and he just reacted poorly. It was just a poorly executed check.
- [35:57]
F
I don't know about that.
- [35:59]
B
Does Radco67 has a different take on this one.
- [36:02]
F
Does Radco Gutis deserve the benefit of the doubt when he already eliminated?
- [36:07]
E
I just think it was a clumsy, clumsy check here.
- [36:11]
F
Check from Radco Gutis. That's fine. That's what he does. He's just a little clumsy out there.
- [36:16]
B
Oh, brother. Yeah, we.
- [36:19]
E
We need more Crosby. That was just clumsy.
- [36:22]
F
Just. Just eliminating North American captains left and right from his clumsiness.
- [36:27]
B
Due to his clumsiness.
- [36:30]
E
I just, I. I do feel like they. They went to the max here. You know, I think it's the system as a whole. You know, I think it's. I think it's the appeal process that created them. That just like, you know what? We're not gonna go through the trouble going to have a phone here and give them five. They want to appeal. It's just going to go to Gary, you know, save.
- [36:48]
B
See, this is why we need hiring
- [36:50]
E
lawyers and going to the neutral arbitrator and all this stuff. Everything's about money. We disproved it with the playoff format. So you. We. We thinking that really, that they. That they wanted to give the NHLPA a chance to appeal and go to a new arbitrary. And then they got to hire out with the whole lawyers.
- [37:05]
B
This is, this is why we need Conor McDavid to keep speaking out before he's a North American captain at the next. At the next international event. Because if he is, Rod Kilgood is. Will be coming for him too. So let's. So let's keep talking, Connor. Let's. Let's. Let's push this boulder up the hill because it seems like that's. That's the only way anything's going to change. Yeah, Mike, thanks for the time, dude. We'll talk to you down the road.
- [37:27]
E
See you guys.
- [37:33]
A
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B
Except Discover in a little place like this.
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A
I don't think so, Jennifer. Oh, yeah, huh? Discover's accepted where I like to shop. Come on, baby. Get with the times.
- [37:49]
B
Right? So we shouldn't get the parachute pants.
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A
These are making a comeback, I think.
- [37:56]
B
Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.
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F
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B
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F
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B
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B
All right, we're back. Thanks, Aruso. Glad he survived being on an airplane that didn't have a functioning sink. Sounds Sounds hellish. Truly hellish. Dom Our Our third our third segment now. I feel like this is going back to Going back to the Olympics is just bookmarked for whatever wackiness Jack Hughes is getting himself into on a given day. We talked about it on Wednesday. His, his remarks about the, about the gold medal puck not, not ending up in his pocket. He's very upset about it. Telling Greg Wishinski that he's trying to get it like that's bull crap that he didn't say crap. The talk Yellow Fame has it in my opinion. Why would they have that puck Rhetorical question from, from, from Jack Hughes Walk some of that quotes electric from from him here. This is after, this is after, after a game yesterday. I mean, listen, I'm obviously honored that the pucks there. This is after the Devil's 63 win against the Rangers on Wednesday because I forgot who they played and what the score was. I mean, listen, I'm obviously honored that the puck's there. I mean, it's the most special place in hockey. I'm honored that it's there. When asked about the comments, the other comments, Hugh said, obviously things were taken crazy. That's just the way I felt. I didn't know where the puck was. So it is what it is. He's. What, what do we expect from Jack Hughes? Just, just generally. What did, what did anybody expect him to say? I think that's the fundamental problem here. And I, and I didn't quite hit this yesterday. Like we've seen it over the course of the last, over the last few weeks. Jack, not a guy who looks before he leaps. I don't think he's thinking too much about the words that are coming out of his mouth until they're out in the ether. And I think this is just the latest example of that. He told the truth. He's upset about it now and he's like, I don't know what anybody was so mad about. I just said it was bullshit that the Hockey hall of Fame has a gold medal puck. I go, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the big deal? And I think it comes down to like a fundamental issue that we've all. We've all brought up at one point or another. Everyone wants hockey players to show personality without considering that sometimes you might not like those personalities. And I think. I think that's what we saw from Jack yesterday. I think that's what we saw from Jack the day before. I think for some people, that's what we saw from Jack in the immediate aftermath of the. Of. Of the gold medal game. And now. And now here we are. He's. He's stepping on rakes left and right. This is. This is Sideshow Bob Hughes. He's. He's stepping on rakes that he planted himself.
- [41:31]
F
It's, It's. It is a sense of entitlement that the puck would just naturally belong to him. I understand to some extent where he's coming from, because that is obviously the most important goal of his life. And he did say he wanted it for his dad's personal collection. But I think when you score on the most important goals in American hockey history, that's something that should be shared with everyone in America. And obviously, it's ironic that's in Canada because that's where the Hockey hall of Fame is. And maybe there should be a Hockey Hall. U.S. hockey hall of Fame. I don't know. But it's just so you don't.
- [42:17]
B
You don't want memorabilia or artifacts venerating the United States hockey program in the Hockey hall of Fame? Is that. Is that what you're saying, Don?
- [42:26]
F
I won't be personally visiting it.
- [42:29]
B
It's there already. It's under. It's under glass, man. They set a land speed record on getting that set up. I think the fundamental problem here is that Jack Hughes clearly is a kid who did not watch Indiana Jones growing up, doesn't understand the concept of things belonging in a museum. That's all the Hockey hall of fame is.
- [42:51]
F
Watch Mr. 3000 instead. And saw the 3000 baseballs.
- [42:56]
B
T Rex Pennebaker. Is that Jack Hughes new name? Yeah. And credit to Washinsky, too, because he's the one who got that story and he followed it. He gets Philip Richard, the man himself, to go on record saying, unfortunately, in the easiest words, it was never Jack's puck to own. It's been donated to us. Now, for every artifact that's been donated, we have a paper trail and signed paperwork of where it's come from. So he's saying, yeah, Jack, we all want things. I suppose. Jack wants that puck. Good luck with it, because he.
- [43:31]
E
Because he.
- [43:32]
B
Because he ain't getting it.
- [43:35]
F
It's you get pucks for your. Your hat tricks and your four goal games and your mile, your personal milestones. You. I do feel for him in a sense, because that one is. It's too important. It's too important to talk.
- [43:49]
B
And I. I don't feel bad for him. I don't feel bad for him at all.
- [43:54]
F
I don't. I don't feel bad for him. I. I understand where he's coming from because players do get their own pucks from personal accomplishments. This is a team accomplishment, and he happened to be the guy who scored, so it's just a blurred line that I. I don't think he understands the way he maybe should.
- [44:15]
B
It's like the most special place in hockey. So, yeah, I'm honored that it's there. That's. That's what he's saying on Thursday. Different.
- [44:23]
F
After several people.
- [44:24]
B
Different. Different approach. Yeah, maybe. I had some conversations on Thursday morning to set him up for. I hope this is over with. Like, I can't. I can't keep doing this every week. Like, what. What trap has Jack Hughes set for himself and then immediately fallen into, like, stop talking for a while. Miss. Miss the playoffs. You know, keep. Keep rehabbing and all that stuff and come back and have an MVP season next year. Like, just take. Take, take a breather. Stop talking for a while.
- [44:57]
F
Stop talking. Show up places with your girlfriend, Tate McCray, and that's all you got to do to become and continue being a household name.
- [45:08]
E
He's just.
- [45:09]
F
It's been an interesting couple of weeks of putting his foot in his mouth repeatedly and then walking back saying, hey, hey, what's going on?
- [45:17]
E
Why is everyone. Why is everyone so mad about this?
- [45:20]
B
I don't understand.
- [45:23]
A
Okay.
- [45:24]
B
But, yeah, the. The big takeaway here is, you know, if. If you're someone who wants to see personality from hockey players, just be careful what you wish for. You make that wish. The monkey's paw starts to curl sometimes, and then we fall in situations like. Like the one we have today. Dom, let's. What do you have with 16 stats is up. I. I read it first thing this morning. Of course. Because I always do.
- [45:47]
F
Thank you.
- [45:50]
B
Anything else? Power rankings. We should have done live power ranks today.
- [45:55]
F
That would have been great. Could have been a window into the process of our genius.
- [46:02]
B
It's a window that nobody wants to look through. Let me tell you, brother. Thanks for being here, man. And thank you for Torusso, for all he brought, wherever he may be. I know he was. He was. Was jetting off somewhere else. And thanks to you, fine folks for listening to this edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Prospect boys are back tomorrow. That's Friday. Haley and I are back next week. Me, Corrado and McIndeel will be back at some point in between that 11 games the NHL Thursday night. That's light work for the Power Rangers boys, let me tell you, including a Ceiling cup rematch in Edmonton and another must win for the Sens versus The Islanders. They're going to have must wins from here on out, despite what the despite what the model says. Enjoy it all. Have a good night. We'll talk to you real soon.
- [46:50]
A
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D
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