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- [00:01]
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- [01:47]
Sean Gentili
This is the athletic hockey show. What up? What up See Athletic Hockey show for April 1, 2026. I am Sean Gentili. I am joined by Sean McIndu and Frankie Corrado. Boys, I think we have one goal today as you get off to a better start than the auto centers did last night against the Florida Panthers. It was a full night of games. We're going to talk about about a few of them but we need to start there. Guys. Frank, you were on for that game. Work wise. Five goals in the first period for Ottawa against Florida. This is must win game for them because they're all must win games. But man, what happened because I wasn't watching the first period of that game and then I, then I checked it on the score and I was like okie dokie. Don't have to pay attention tonight. Thank you. Thank you guys. I appreciate, I appreciate the, you know, clearing the decks like that.
- [02:48]
Sean McIndu
You want to get off to a good start for this show. We'll get into the game but how do. How about I just lob this up there for you. And you tell me who says no. Tristan Jari for Linus, all Mark. Who says no?
- [03:02]
Sean Gentili
We're going to pretend that we haven't been kicking this around in one way or another. For the last. For the last few days.
- [03:06]
Sean McIndu
It's been in the group chat. I'm not going to lie.
- [03:09]
Frankie Corrado
It was in the group chat. It got thrown out there. It got pretty. Pretty soundly rejected, with the answer being Ottawa says no. And I think after last night, maybe. Maybe we revisit. By the way, guys, I just want to let you know, I'm not. I'm not really feeling it today, so I'm just gonna. Is it okay if I just take this one off or is.
- [03:31]
Sean McIndu
Yeah, no, I think what you should do, Sean, is stay on and just. You can sit there. You'll be in your little box, but you don't have to do anything. You can just. You can just hang out there, all
- [03:42]
Frankie Corrado
right, for about the first third of the show. And then, you know, segment one, and then you won't see me again.
- [03:48]
Sean McIndu
Okay. I think we just need to make something, like, abundantly clear. For everyone who, you know, has been affected by mental health issues, either personally or secondhand, it's a very real thing, and we should never deny that, and we should make sure that we help people when they need the help. With that being said, if you are making yourself available to play, meaning you're on the bench or you're in the net or you're on the ice, that means you're available. So there's like a certain industry standard requirement that you need to meet if you're going to make yourself available. If you're not, okay, and you can't be available, then you have to recuse yourself and the team will do everything they can to help you out and make sure that you're getting the necessary help that you need. But I think this is important in the case of Lina Sallmark, where, man, you're sitting on the bench, you haven't played in a couple days, you don't play for a couple more days. Like, that's where you gotta. You gotta kind of come to the table. Like, the team has been coming to the table for him a lot. They've done everything they possibly can. And then last night, eight seconds in, should be mentally and physically refreshed and ready to go. Makes a mistake, and it cost them a goal. And it only got worse from there for him, for the team, and they never had a chance of winning that game. And it was a Night where Detroit lost, Columbus lost. Like there. There. There was opportunity, and they didn't grab a hold of that opportunity. Now, that keeps them alive a little bit, but you could have made some ground up there and you weren't able to.
- [05:32]
Sean Gentili
There's five goals on 16 shots for Omar, including that one a couple seconds into the game. There was also another. Another segment where he allowed 2 and 34. Yeah, Frankie, I'm. I'm on board with everything you said. You know, we. We need to. We do need to preface, I guess, you know, analysis of Olmark's play with what. With what he was dealing with early in the season. But like, you're in the net, man. Like there's in. Then people are free to. Free to criticize based on that. If you can't. If you can't. If you can't play, you can't play. But five shots on 16 goals with just bizarre body language. And all of it, man, it's. It's not. It is not a good situation.
- [06:15]
Frankie Corrado
And. And the context here, if people haven't been following it, is that there was at some point an expectation that he was going to play on Saturday against the Lightning and that he apparently indicated to the team, to the coaches that he was not good to go for that game. And it's. It's been. It's been expressed in a few different ways, you know, that. That he said he. You know, that he wasn't feeling it or that it. Frankie's right. I mean, it. Whether it's physical, mental fatigue, anything this time of year, I mean, you. Some players are good to go and some are not. And that is something every team deals with, every player is dealing with to some extent. But there was, you know, there was some talk, you know, Frankie, your. Your buddy o Dog had a. Had a clip that went a little bit viral where he was criticizing all Mark for not being available on Saturday. And I think that, you know, I can tell you up here in Ottawa that it didn't go over so well. Like people were. Were defending their guy, defending their. Their player. And certainly given everything he's been through this year, I think rightly so, it's
- [07:26]
Sean Gentili
understandable that part of it's understandable.
- [07:28]
Frankie Corrado
There's. There's a lot of sympathy and empathy. But after last night, it's. It's tough because, look, here's the bottom line. However you want to play this, whether you want to treat this, whatever's going on with all Mark as, you know, treat it the same as you would treat an injury. You Know, player is just not. He's not good to go at this time of year, whatever it is, they need this guy. They are right in the mix. They are still in the mix. Last night, as bad as, as bad as the scoreboard looked, didn't really cost them all that much because everybody else lost. They're right there. But how do you do it without an $8 million goalie? And you don't need this Senators team. We've said this before. They don't need the $8 million goalie to be 8 million bucks worth every single night. They don't need great goaltending. They need okay goaltending because the rest of the team is good enough to win games with the goalie being just okay. That's what they need from the eight million dollar guy. And if for whatever reason, he can't be that guy down the stretch, that potentially torpedoes a season in Ottawa. And it's, it's a real tough situation. And then what given, you know, keep. Remember the context. Ottawa finally makes the playoffs last year. Great. Now you're getting ready to take a step forward. And instead Montreal is kind of blown past you, The Sabres have blown way past you. Boston is, is back in it. And you're sort of left sitting there going, what's going on? And there's, there's. When the music stops and all the chairs are occupied, especially in the Atlantic Division, there's going to be at least one and maybe two teams in Ottawa and Detroit that are going to have some really, really tough questions because there's not enough room for all of them at this point. After last night, I think we can say Boston's in, so there's one spot left, and there's going to be. There's. There's not going to be any positive framing for whoever doesn't get that spot. No.
- [09:34]
Sean McIndu
And you know what? This, this whole all mark situation, I feel like it's gotten to the point now whether they make the playoffs or not, they're going to have to have serious conversations about what they do with that contract next year. Like, would they not be at the point where they look at it and say, we just can't bring him back. We might have to just eat the buyout and it's going to suck and it's going to cook our salary cap structure, but we might just be better off cutting our losses and saying, we gotta, we gotta go in a different direction. And there's another goalie or goalie tandem out there, because realistically, like, James Reimer is not getting any younger and he's a bit of a band aid at this point for that team. But like, if I had to handicap a percentage that the Ottawa Senators would be coming back with two different goalies next year, I think I'm in the high 70s. I think that's, that's a reasonable expectation. That's why I float that out there to you guys. Like, who says no? Jari for all Mark. Because it feels like Edmonton doesn't want to put Jari in the net. They're done with him and it just got started and like Ottawa's done with Linus all Mark, so. Or they. You would think they're done with Linus all Mark.
- [10:47]
Sean Gentili
Yeah. And the way we frame this, when we were, you know, texting about it a couple days ago, my initial thought was, yeah, as it relates to Jari for, for Omar who says no. I was like, I don't. I, I initially was like, I, I don't know if the, I don't know if the Sens can do that. Like, I, I think. I think there's maybe some degree of upside with Omar, maybe that there's, that there's now with Jari. And then you look at the contract.
- [11:17]
Sean McIndu
Edmonton says no. Trust me. Edmonton says no.
- [11:20]
Sean Gentili
Edmonton says no. Because there's three years left for. At. After this, after this one. Three years remaining on that contract for 8.25. So even if you think both of those guys stink and you don't want either of them around, one of them makes a significantly. Has a significantly larger AAV for two extra years. Like, it, it is an. It's a no. It's a no brainer. And that is, and that is not. You know, we laughed when, whenever. I laughed when, whenever it got brought up in the first place. Right. But then, then you start thinking about it and it's like, I think, I think it's. I think, I think, I think, I
- [11:58]
Sean McIndu
think Edmonton, it's absolutely Edmonton who says no. And like Linus Hallmark has a full no move clause. Like that is an anchor, an absolute anchor of a contract. So what are you going to do? They're, they're, you know, they're in a really tough situation and they're essentially at this point at the mercy of their goaltender. Like their playoff hopes. Yes. There's some injured guys and I think last night, it really goes to show you how much missing Sanderson and Shabbat and Nick Jensen for that matter is really catching up to them because Tyler Cleven's a good player, but he's playing 27 minutes a night. Jordan Spence is a good player, but he's playing 26 minutes three out of the last five games. You know, you're asking a lot of those guys, but you are at the mercy of Linus Ulmark and that's the coach, that's the players, that's the gm. It's really not fair to all those guys that have been busting their, you know what's all year to try and get into this playoffs and a lot of courageous, resilient efforts and it all hinges on this one guy. And if he's available for you or not, let me not fair to them.
- [13:04]
Frankie Corrado
Throw this at you.
- [13:05]
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- [13:08]
Frankie Corrado
Sabres, Wild, Hurricanes, Lightning, Panthers. What are those teams have in common? That's you could answer. Well, I mean that's, that's four of probably the six best teams in the league and then the Panthers who are still two time defending champions. The other thing they have in common is that's the next five opponents for the Ottawa Center. There's no break coming here. There's no get right game. There's no. Okay, you know what, let's. Well we, we've got an easy one so we'll throw them in there, let them get, let them get a good game in. Now all those games are at home, so that's the plus side. But this, this Senators team, this, this is the make or break stretch and it's, it's very tough and there's just, there's no room for error. I mean they probably need minimum five points. I would say out of those next four games, probably, you know, six out of the three, 10. And that's assuming that nobody else around you gets red hot. Which is maybe a good assumption based on, on what we've seen recently.
- [14:14]
Sean Gentili
Yes, that, that's like, that's the big, that's the big variable. Right. We've mentioned it. And that's also, it's also by last night hurts because playoff odds just dropped from, from Dom. He's got him at 50% basically same as, same as Columbus. The fact that they're even that high in any model is kind of wild but it's also an indicator of like if they, if they could have done something last night because of the way the rest of the scoreboard shook out, like they'd be in a, they'd be in a significantly better spot.
- [14:45]
Sean McIndu
Yeah. And like Detroit loses and you just brought up Ottawa's schedule. Have you seen who Detroit is going to play coming up to finish the season? They're going to have Philly twice. Don't blink now. But the Philadelphia Flyers, like, they're on fire, and they've kind of arrived into this picture for the playoffs very quietly. They've got the Flyers twice, they've got the Blue Jackets once, and they could beat up on the Rangers potentially on Saturday, and they're going to finish with a Florida swing. Like, things have gone really bad for the Red Wings since the. I don't know, I guess the Olympic break, like, once, once. March hit, like, typical Red Wings fashion. It's been a terrible March, but, like, destiny is still in their hands probably more than it is in Ottawa's hands.
- [15:33]
Sean Gentili
It does. It does. It feels that way. It feels that way even though the. Even though the computer doesn't like them all. It doesn't. It doesn't like them quite as much.
- [15:40]
Sean McIndu
It doesn't like them because, like, the way they're playing, like, they're not playing quality hockey. They got dummied last night by Pittsburgh. Wasn't even close.
- [15:51]
Sean Gentili
Non competitive, right? Like, be. Because the first period, I. I was. I could not believe the way they came out of that one.
- [15:57]
Frankie Corrado
So, I mean, having destiny, your own hands isn't a good thing when you're playing like this, right? Like, you. You'd rather have it be in other teams and the scoreboard and all that stuff because they stink right now. Or at least they stunk last night and all of last month. It's April now, so maybe that, you know, if. If they've actually got it in their heads that March is the month in Detroit where everything goes off the rails.
- [16:23]
Sean Gentili
Which they. Which they might.
- [16:25]
Frankie Corrado
They might be the only. They might be the only. Folks were happy to wake up today and see the calendar was April 1st. The rest of us are rolling our eyes going, oh, we got to deal with the whole day of nonsense. They're thrilled because they're saying March is over. But, boy, I mean, you. You talk about the. I mean, we talked about Ottawa. What happens if they miss? And it's. It's a disaster. Yes. But also, it's a disaster that you can look back on and say, okay, we were right there. We had lousy goaltending. We got crushed by some injuries on the blue line down the stretch. What do you say if you're Detroit when it all ends up happening again? I said this on the. On my other show yesterday. The Red Wings are starting to turn into what the Leafs have been for the last decade, just a month early. They're the Leafs who don't even make the first round. They're the Leafs who, who have their melt their playoff meltdown two weeks before the playoffs rather than two weeks, the two weeks into it. It's, I don't know what you do if you're Detroit and you end up missing. And I'm saying if you know, this is, this race, I mean it's changing every, it's changing every day, right? You looked on whatever the scoreboard is that changes it things and there's a real good chance that by next week we're talking about Red Wings are on fire. They're looking great, but I mean, geez, we, I, I, I just put my shovel away from bearing the Washington Capitals
- [17:51]
Sean Gentili
and yeah, they're a point, they're a
- [17:53]
Frankie Corrado
point behind Frankie, shoots up out of the ground.
- [17:56]
Sean Gentili
They're a point behind Frankie's Philadelphia Flyers because they beat him in regulation last night. So the Capitals by all rights should, should be, should be deader than a Doornell right now because of the way stuff is shaking out and they are
- [18:06]
Frankie Corrado
not to borrow a phrase from Connor McDavid this Eastern race. And maybe this is just us overreacting to one night, but it's starting to feel like a bit of a pillow fight. And, and it's, you know, the good news for all those teams, Detroit, Ottawa on down the line who lost last night is that everyone else around you lost, so you didn't lose any ground. The bad news is Boston and Pittsburgh winning really made this feel like it went from a whole bunch of teams fighting for three spots to a slightly smaller bunch of teams fighting just one.
- [18:40]
Sean McIndu
And, and the crazy thing right now in Detroit is I don't know how many times their head coach can try and convey the same message. Like any time they have this bad loss, it's, you know, he's, he's rolling out there and he's asking for will and compete and drive. And even last night he's like, it's actually a combination of technique and skill as well. Is that not everything? If it's skill and will and technique like that is, you're literally saying we did everything wrong.
- [19:10]
Frankie Corrado
Other than that they're crushing it.
- [19:12]
Sean McIndu
Right.
- [19:12]
Sean Gentili
If you go back and look at the way that they've lost these games because again, they were playing at a 101 point pace by the end of February they had the 9th best points percentage in the league. They were solidly in it. And in March they go 5, 7 and 2. That's after going 4, 10 and 0 in March, 20, 25 and 3, 9 and 2 in March of 20, 24 and 5, 9 and 1 in March of. Of 2023. Like, everybody could see it coming to some extent, but the issue in. And you got. We got into this earlier, but it bears repeating. This isn't goaltending. This isn't injuries. This isn't, you know, a. A weird run of bad luck. This is a team finding a bunch of different ways to lose games at the absolute worst time of the year for the fourth consecutive season because they're coming out slow. That's what they did against Pittsburgh. They're blowing games late, which we've seen it a bunch of times. They can't beat teams on back on Back to backs, which is incredible. They're 13 and 1 against teams on the second half of back to backs this. This. This month. If you're in a playoff race, like, is there. Is there any worse state to be in? And getting three points in 10 games against teams that. Or three points out of 10, rather against teams that had played the night before. It's crazy. It doesn't seem like anything's really working right. And then you have McClellan coming out and saying it's. It's. Yeah, it's technique, and it's in its will, and it's what that is. That sums it up. And that's why I feel like they're. Regardless of what the odds say, I feel like they're absolutely in worse shape than the Ottawa Senators now because there is no lightning bolt fixed. You can't just hope that James Reimer has a couple of good games and gets you back in it. Right? There they are. They're a mess. Soup the nuts.
- [20:59]
Sean McIndu
I know, man. Okay, so they're. They're living life in the Atlantic Division. And I don't know if you guys learned anything from the hockey world yesterday, but there is a couple trains coming in the Atlantic, and it's the Buffalo Sabres, who have won two in a row, and the Montreal Canadiens, who have won six in a row, all in regulation. We don't talk about them anymore. They're in pretty cushy spots. But, like, I guess if you're taking a scope of that division, well, here we go. Tampa, really good. Buffalo, really good. Not going anywhere. Montreal, really good. Not going anywhere. Ottawa's a goalie away. And then you think about Detroit. Well, first of all, Boston bounced back in a big way. Like, where does that leave Detroit in the future? And how much. How much different can it look next year if they do miss the playoffs?
- [21:51]
Frankie Corrado
And by the way, you know, you just Listed all the teams ahead of them. Look in the rearview mirror. Yes, Florida Panthers aren't, aren't going to be doing this for years about them.
- [22:01]
Sean McIndu
They're back next year.
- [22:03]
Frankie Corrado
They're all resting on them back being, you know, missing the playoffs again next year. No way. Healthy Barkov. Forget it.
- [22:10]
Sean Gentili
Full season worth of charging the batteries for next year.
- [22:14]
Frankie Corrado
Like, you know, Barkov on a line with, with Gavin McKenna. Like, it's not, it's, it's not gonna happen. So
- [22:23]
Sean Gentili
meanwhile, just so everybody knows, Buffalo Savers wake up in first place today by, by two points. Tampa Bay.
- [22:30]
Frankie Corrado
And, and you know, I mean we're, we're talking about playoff races, so we're not talking a ton about Montreal Tampa. But I'll take that first round. So series, let's go. I'll take that after last night, after, you know, with all the history and everything here. Yeah, let's, let's go ahead and do that. That'd be, that'd be plenty fun. Unless, unless Montreal wants to run the table and finish first and give us Buffalo Tampa take that too. You know what up to you. Buffalo, Tampa, Montreal Canadiens. But I think either one of those would be pretty, pretty good.
- [23:03]
Sean Gentili
Frankie, what's your pick? What do you want? What do you want in the Atlantic Division first round?
- [23:07]
Sean McIndu
I don't care because we don't do the games. To be honest with you. Like, that's my, my opinion is very
- [23:13]
Frankie Corrado
self serving, selfish, selfish guy here, not a team player.
- [23:18]
Sean McIndu
Yeah, I know. I, I like, I like the Montreal Tampa thing. Just because of the Marty San Luis storyline.
- [23:23]
Sean Gentili
Like, I think there's, I think there's a chance that you should vote that you should pick that one just to, just to get your, just get your buddy here potentially on the road from Montreal, Tampa. I think there's a chance, I think there's a chance that would be a work assignment for me, so fingers crossed.
- [23:38]
Sean McIndu
I like that for you.
- [23:40]
Sean Gentili
All right, boys, good first segment. We're gonna come back and talk about our favorite topic, Toronto mess. Keith Pelley. Gradual living. Coming up next, with two guys who have a certain degree of fondness for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Stick around.
- [24:00]
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- [24:31]
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- [25:01]
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- [25:42]
Sean Gentili
All right, boys, we're back in Toronto. Yesterday we had a Keith Pelley press conference where he's talking about the search for people to replace Brad Treliving some kind of postmortem on, on the, on the firing there. Pelly spoke yesterday. One word comes to mind when we talk about the, about the, the presser there. I think it was weird, I think that was a weird showing by Keith Pelley yesterday talking about data driven. Data driven decisions, which is fine, but that, you know, that's the pull quote, I guess, but it was mixed in with a bunch of other corporate goo goo. And then just the, the vibes were. The vibes were off. So Mac and do I. What are. Let's just, let's just start there. What, what are you thinking when you, when you're watching that man speak yesterday?
- [26:35]
Frankie Corrado
I. I am. All right, I'll give you the general and then, and then I'll drill down little bit the, the general.
- [26:42]
Sean Gentili
I'm gonna turn my mic off, by the way. Like, I don't even. I don't.
- [26:45]
Sean McIndu
You might not need it here.
- [26:46]
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- [26:48]
Frankie Corrado
I'll say this first of all to, to all the other fan bases, welcome to the Keith Pelly experience because that's a name that's been known in Toronto now for, for a little bit and it, but if you're outside of that market, if you're outside of that fan base, you probably heard it once or twice. You kind of heard it when Brandon Shanahan got let go, but you haven't been super familiar with him. And I will give him credit in the sense that given the firing of Bradshaw living, he needed to, to do this yesterday. He needed to get up there and sort of not so much face the music because it wasn't like it was an unpopular decision, but he, somebody needed to get up and answer some questions. That's clearly not something that he's fantastic at. And, and I would assume that he probably is aware of that and he's not looking to be the face of the franchise, but for now he kind of is. And so he, he, he got up there and he did his job and, and, and that's fine. I will say when it comes to the, the whole, you know, we're gonna make data driven decisions, that's great, that's what you should be doing. But here's my question. If you're making data driven decisions, how were you completely blown away by Montreal being good this year? How were you completely blown away by the Buffalo Sabres being good? A team that the analytics said was maybe a little bit undervalued coming into this year? Nobody thought first place in, in the Eastern Conference. So I mean, yes, that in that sense it's a surprise. But for yourself, how were you shocked by the Buffalo Sabres it being a playoff team this year? And there's been this talk in Toronto, some of it from Keith Pelley himself, that this team is still pretty good. They just had some injuries. There was the condensed schedule, had some bad luck, the goaltending obviously took a bit of a drop. None of that squares with being a data driven organization, which tells me that one of a few things is going on. Either a, this, this focus on data is something new, in which case what were you doing for the last year, or they it's just not true and they're not doing things based on data and he's just saying something that he knows the, the audience wants to hear, or this is the one. As a Leafs fan, that really scares me that Keith Pelly is one of those guys who loves the data as long as the data tells him what he wants to hear. And he's now got people feeding him, people who have figured out that if you want to stick around, you've got to tell the boss what he wants to hear. And I've been in that situation. I think a lot of people have been in that situation to some degree where it's like the boss comes in and says, hey, I'm a straight shooter, open door, all of this stuff. But you very quickly figure out that that policy only applies as long as you're patting them on the head and telling them that everything's great. And I have, I have seen that situation a few times. I have never seen it work. I have never seen it turn into success. It fails and it usually fails very quickly. So that's my question for Keith Pelley is what are we doing with the data if the data led you so disastrously wrong in so many different ways this year?
- [30:16]
Sean Gentili
One of the quotes, and I'm, I'm like just rereading the thing that CJ wrote this for this morning. Chris Johnston, good breakdown of whatever that was yesterday. This is Keith Pelly talking. AI is massive. It is changing our business. The whole thing with data is everyone now has access to data and everyone's going to have access to AI. It really comes down to how you utilize it and how smart you are. That is like any executive over the last five years gave that same speech about any in any field at all. It is boilerplate, boring, non specific, deliberately non specific corporate nonsense. And it's the way that AI weirdos talk about their own products. By the way, you're like, well okay, like what do you mean by that? It's AI is really important. Well, how, how is this applied? What do you mean by that? Well, it's just really important. It's going to change stuff, right? How is it going to change stuff? Well, it's definitely going to change stuff. There's a degree of non specificity when people like that talk in those terms that should terrify everybody because they don't, regardless of the field you're in.
- [31:28]
Sean McIndu
That's because they don't know. And that's, you know, like the, the people, the AI people don't really know exactly what's, what it's going to look like or at least maybe they're not telling us.
- [31:38]
Sean Gentili
Speculative bets. Absolutely. Across the board.
- [31:41]
Sean McIndu
And so I guess if you want to relate that to the press conference, I think one of your takeaways out of a few takeaways is that they don't know. They don't know what it's going to look like. They don't know who they're going to hire. They don't know Structure was a big word. They don't know what the structure of the organization is going to look like yet. They don't have the search firm in place yet that's going to look for the candidates. So it was a lot of saying, we have a philosophy that we want to have a structure, but we don't know exactly what that is yet. And so that takes a lot of time to figure out. They'll have to sift through that. That was one takeaway, the other takeaway and I'm sure, dgb, you were thinking the exact same thing I was thinking as soon as he said data centric or data driven, was that Kyle Dubas, the guy who was previously the general manager, if he was a UFA today or if he was in the organization today, he would be strapping on his boots and saying, I'm the general manager or I'm the president and he would be the guy in charge and he's done a very good job in Pittsburgh. But that popped into my head. So the pendulum swung so much in that organization that essentially they went from data driven with Brendan Shanahan lurking in the background. We don't know how much involvement there was there, but let's assume they're was some or else it wouldn't have ended the way that it ended. They went from that to trust your hut, trust your gut. We're hockey guys and that's what we're going to do. And we're going to get this thing over the edge with grit and determination and passion. And then what they forgot when they looked at the Florida Panthers is that the Panthers are one of the more data driven teams in the NHL. And you would look and you would look at that and say, well, well, what data did they need to know that Matthew Tkachuk was a good player, Sam Bennett was going to hit goalies or. And it's like, well, they needed to know that when they made a trade for Sam Reinhardt or Sam Bennett or they plucked Gus Forsling off waivers or they traded for Luo Sta rin and like that, those guys, there was something under the hood that said they were going to work well in this system with these players as Florida Panthers. So that's why you need the data. And so they're gonna have to figure out what their structure looks like. They're gonna figure out who's a data centric guy. But I think this is the big thing, and I said this on overdrive yesterday and I'll say it again to whoever is a different audience here but there's probably four big issues right now with the Maple Leafs. It's poor roster construction, anchor contracts, no draft picks, and a weak farm system. So what executive is gonna go into a meeting with the CEO of MLSE and sit there with a straight face and tell him, I can have this thing turned around in a couple years. I don't need to retool or I don't need to rebuild it like I can. If they're lying to you, they are lying to you to try and get a job. Because any real executive that understands what's going on knows that those four things are not a quick turnaround. And this team needs to have some kind of like, deep evaluation and rebalancing or read to whatever you want to call it. But it's not a quick fix.
- [35:00]
Sean Gentili
Everybody wants data until the data tells you something you don't like. And I think, I think Keith Pelly is about to figure that out. And also from a structure, from a structural standpoint, like, did it not sound, does it not seem like the best fit here is to have a poho situation who's like kind of a hockey guy, but also a buffer for people like Pete, like Keith Pelly, and then to have like maybe a more data driven traditional general manager? Like, doesn't that seem like, doesn't that seem like that's what the structure should be? And it. Doesn't that seem like that's, that's the structure? They just detonated it like a couple years ago.
- [35:36]
Frankie Corrado
Keith Pelly detonated one year ago when he, you know, because they had that. Because, look, I don't buy a lot of this talk about how Toronto is such an incredibly tough market and you just, oh, it's, it's, it's, you know, all of this stuff. I think a lot of that is, is excuses, but I will acknowledge that it's going to be tough if you hire a. Look, a data driven GM like Kyle Dubas isn't coming over. Good luck getting Eric Tulski. Those are kind of the, the two guys that a lot of people look at as being super data driven. There's a whole bunch of guys in other organizations, including one down in Florida, who might make pretty good candidates.
- [36:12]
Sean Gentili
Sunny Maida. Yes.
- [36:13]
Frankie Corrado
But those are going to time GMs. You're gonna drop a first time GM who's a data driven guy in Toronto and have them be the face of the franchise
- [36:25]
Sean Gentili
in the face of the hockey, of the of hockey ops to the MLSE boardroom? Like, absolutely not.
- [36:31]
Frankie Corrado
And also, by the way, in front of the. Also the face to a fan base that has. That is not it. Not feeling very pleasant about this organization right now. That's a super tough ask. So the seemingly obvious answer is get the president of hockey ops. Have that be somebody with a bigger personality, with some name recognition and Interesting, interesting, interesting. I don't know if you know anyone, Sean, if you've got anyone in your phone who. Any recent calls that you could. You could maybe dial up, but you get that. I mean, that. That seems. That's what they had with Brandon Shanahan and Kyle Dubas. And look, the Brendan Shanahan era ultimately didn't work in the sense that they didn't. They didn't do enough winning in the playoffs and things kind of crumbled at the end. But the first few years of that were fantastic. It worked exactly right. Brendan Shanahan was the perfect guy for that role early on. Kyle Dubas, eventually, you know, when they went from Lou and they had Mark Hunter in that, they chose the right guy. They had it all set up well, and then Keith Pelley came along, made the decision to move on from Brenda Shanahan, which I don't think too many people objected to by that point, but then said, we're not going to do it. We're not going to have a president anymore. Why. Why was that decision made? Why was it just suddenly? It was just Brad Treliving is on his own. Was it because you thought that was the best structure? Was it money? Are we really doing counting pennies? And, and that's. I mean, the other piece that's up today is, you know, Jonas has this fantastic piece about all of this kind of nickel and diming that the Maple Leafs are doing. And I say nickels, and it's not nickels and dimes to me. You're charging people a thousand bucks to go see the dressing room. But I'll tell you right now, for Rogers, who are going to be the, you know, the owners of this team very soon, big giant, you know, cable giant up here in Canada. These. These amounts of monies are rounding errors. I mean, I know it sounds crazy if you're a fan of a smaller market team, to hear the, you know, this giant Toronto Maple Leafs now being referred to as if it's just, you know, one department of this corporate monster, but that's what's going on. It's a rounding error. And if Keith Pelly is really focused on saving money, making a little bit more money here and there, I. I've got news for you here's the thing that is changing in Toronto. We are used to, we. I'm saying, being Leaf fans, we're used to not really loving the ownership. I grew up in the Harold Ballard era, right? I went through the teacher's pension fund, all of this. And then it was Bell and Rogers. And now it's going to be just Rogers. What's different about just Rogers? I'll tell you right now, we all hated Harold Ballard. Harold Ballard's job was owning the Maple Leafs. He didn't have a bunch of other businesses that we could take our frustration out on. Pension plan. What am I going to. I'm going to boycott a pension plan? I'm not going to do that. Bell and Rogers together, I mean, they own everything in Canada now. It's going to be one company with their name on this. And if the perception is that they're holding back the Toronto Maple Leafs, this, this franchise that is so important to so many people in this country over nickels and dimes and rounding errors on the bottom line, look out, if you're a board member of Rodgers, if you're way up high in that chain and you're not seeing this train coming, you're not paying attention because here we go
- [40:05]
Sean McIndu
again with the train. You know what? I get what you're saying.
- [40:07]
Frankie Corrado
Look at the data.
- [40:08]
Sean Gentili
Train references that.
- [40:09]
Sean McIndu
I get what you're saying and you're not wrong. Absolutely not wrong. But do we honestly believe that. Pick your big companies in Canada, all the banks, the insurance companies, you guys
- [40:23]
Sean Gentili
have like eight or 10 companies up there, right?
- [40:25]
Sean McIndu
We're getting up there. We almost have a dozen companies in Canada now. Are they going to stop, like, are they going to stop purchasing suites and season tickets at Scotiabank Arena? I don't know. I doubt it. It's the center of all the corporate stuff.
- [40:38]
Frankie Corrado
They're not going to happen is what is going to happen when. If I, as a Leaf fan, am sitting there and our stupid ownership is doing this and that again, and for the first time in 40 or 50 years, when I want to have my little temper tantrum, instead of throwing a remote at my TV or punching a wall, I can make a phone call and say, you know what? Switch my cable over to a competitor. Oh, now I've actually got something I can do. And I'm telling you, if this goes the way it could go, there's going to be. A couple years from now, there's going to be executives and Rogers going, why? Why have we lost such a big chunk? Oh, right, because we put a Guy in charge of the Maple Leafs and told him to nickel and dime everything.
- [41:17]
Sean McIndu
They can't do it, man. It can't be. It can't be an option for them. Nickel and diming can't be an option for them. And I think you have to go back and you have to have the Tim Lai wiki model where it was by all means necessary and all expenditures next necessary. You need to do whatever we need to do to win. So that means, okay, let's hire Brendan Shanahan. Well, Shanny, you don't have any NHL team front office experience, so here's what you do. Go out and get the best general manager and pay him a ton of money. So go get Lou Lamorello. Okay? After that, let's go and get the best head coach we can possibly get and pay him whatever he wants. And we went out and we got Mike Babcock. And then after that, or not after that, but before that, get us the brightest young mind that we can groom to run this team at some point. So you get Kyle Dubas and you pay him a lot of money. And I think that is what needs to happen here in Toronto. It's spend however much we need to spend, get whoever we possibly need to get, and by all means necessary, we're going to try and win. Did it work? No. Clearly they're trying to pick up the pieces right now. But I think if I was having my pick at this thing, like we're going to hear all the candidates come, come out now and you know who's going to be the president, who's going to be the gm, who's being interviewed, who's available, who's not. This would be my pick. I would have Mike Gillis as the president and I would have Brandon Pridham as the general manager and I would surround him with some hockey people. And I think that satisfies a lot of things that we're talking about. A president who has been through the ringer. Ringer One went away from a Stanley cup, having to deal with what he had to deal with in Vancouver, ownership on down, and then a GM who's data driven, who's very well liked and highly regarded within the organization and externally and knows the organization. He doesn't have to come in and learn about it on the fly. He's seen it all happen with both regimes now and then you could have your hockey people around him. That would be my choice if I was doing this thing.
- [43:25]
Frankie Corrado
And then the last thing there, because you're right, they, they nailed all of this at the start of the Shanahan era. But then there was one more step, which is, once you've got all that in place, empower everyone and be willing to make tough decisions and tough adjustments when you need to. And that's what ended up ultimately causing the failure of the Shanahan era was they got paralyzed. They couldn't make a tough decision. They kicked the can down the road every time, whether it was Sheldon Keefe losing every year in the playoffs. Do we make a coaching change? Ah, let's give him one more a year. Do we move on from Mitch Marner before the no move kicks in? No, you know what? We're good. We're. I'm sure that'll work itself out. Even Brandon Shanahan himself, they waited until his contract expired to move on from him. They just couldn't seem to make a tough decision. And I think that is. That can be a personality thing, whether it was Shanahan or. Or whoever else. But it's also an organizational thing. People have got to feel empowered to make the tough call. It can't be. I've got to run everything by a committee. It can't be. Oh, I've got to talk to the bulky. I've. I've got to. I want to make this trade, but I got to talk to Keith Pelly, and then Keith Pelly's got to talk to the board of Rodgers, and we got to have this whole situation. So we'll get back to you in a week. That doesn't work. And that's, you know, Mike Gillis. I'm sort of on the fence a little bit about that name being out there, but our colleague Thomas Drance had an interesting point where he said part of the reason that Mike Gillis has not resurfaced somewhere is that he is a guy who, when he goes into an interview, he doesn't sugarcoat it. And he doesn't. And he doesn't sit there and act like the. The CEO or the owner. Whoever he's talking to is as smart as him when it comes to hockey. He sits down and says, I'm going to run things the way I run them. You're going to let me do it and get out of the way.
- [45:16]
Sean Gentili
These are the pro. These are the pro. These are the problems you have.
- [45:18]
Frankie Corrado
Yes.
- [45:19]
Sean Gentili
Like, let me fix them.
- [45:21]
Frankie Corrado
And then he. And. And get out of my way. And if that. If that isn't acceptable, then don't hire me. And people don't hire. But that's the sort of guy that they need. But is that going to fly at Rogers, where you've got all of these guys in suits who want to feel like cool sports guys and they, you know, and they kind of feel in the back that I've had a lot of success in the business world. I'm a pretty sports smart guy. I probably know as much as, as these guys. I probably have some insights into, into roster construction that they'd really like to hear. And it's just they're playing make believe. Are you going to torpedo the, the short term and long term chances of this hallowed beloved sports franchise just so that a dozen guys in suits can larp around playing fantasy hockey feeling like big shots? Yeah, maybe they will. They might do exactly that if they get this higher run.
- [46:14]
Sean Gentili
This is, this is the hockey version of David Zaslav, like being in charge of, you know, HBO Max and stuff. That's for. That's shorthand for 15 people out there. But that's what's happening here. Okay. You guys have anything else? That was like the easiest segment of my life. Good God.
- [46:28]
Sean McIndu
I'm sure we could find something else, but we probably got a wrap.
- [46:31]
Sean Gentili
We're gonna, we're gonna pick this, this is fodder for next week. We're gonna, we're gonna be texting each other about this. I'm sure there'll be some usable bits that we can talk about. We can have. This seems to be a weekly thing where it's. What's. What's new with Toronto's executive search.
- [46:44]
Frankie Corrado
Frankie, have they scheduled your interview yet
- [46:45]
Sean McIndu
or is that still waiting for a call, man, even just. I didn't get one of those external like pick your brain interviews either. I was hoping to get one of those.
- [46:54]
Sean Gentili
Did they let you. Did they let you sit down in the. Did they make you pay a grand to sit down in the locker room and eat wagyu or.
- [47:00]
Sean McIndu
No, no, but there is alumni involved in that, so maybe I could, you know, kind of chaperone some crowd rack. I would love to.
- [47:07]
Frankie Corrado
Honestly, I would love.
- [47:10]
Sean McIndu
I would love to go back into the room and chaperone some people and wine and dine them. I think that'd be cool.
- [47:15]
Frankie Corrado
Just eating an ice cream sundae out of Austin Matthews helmet while he sits there waiting to go on the ice.
- [47:21]
Sean Gentili
That probably costs an extra 500 bucks
- [47:23]
Sean McIndu
though, to be honest with you. If I ever did that, I'd want to just hop into the equipment room one last time and grab some new gear.
- [47:31]
Sean Gentili
Where are you the rest of the week, man? Are you home.
- [47:33]
Sean McIndu
I'm off to New York tonight. We have Habs Rangers on Thursday, tomorrow at msg. So looking forward to that and then back and then on the road a bunch to finish the year on on April 15th.
- [47:45]
Sean Gentili
Habs Rangers. Maybe I'll watch that one.
- [47:47]
Frankie Corrado
All right. Rangers are feeling feisty these days.
- [47:50]
Sean McIndu
And Caulfield JD our producer, saying Caulfield's a hat trick away from 50. He could do it at MSG.
- [47:55]
Sean Gentili
Oh, man, do it with, with Frankie Corrado in the building.
- [47:58]
Sean McIndu
Do it on a Thursday. Save it for Saturday. Come on, man.
- [48:03]
Sean Gentili
This is how it's, it's, it's happening. By the end of the second period, we're gonna natural hat from, from Cole Caufield with Frank in the building. All right, bud, enjoy it. We'll talk next week.
- [48:11]
Sean McIndu
See you guys.
- [48:19]
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- [49:54]
Sean Gentili
All right, there goes Frankie Macinto. What have we learned?
- [49:58]
Frankie Corrado
What have we learned? Sean, I'll give you two things I learned, both related back to the leafs. In the last segment, I learned that when Keith Pelly was talking about AI he was not, he was not just talking about bringing back Ally Afraidy. That's kind of what I had assumed.
- [50:13]
Sean Gentili
That's part of. That's part of what he was talking about. One of the AI mentioned was about I afraid the other. The other 15 weren't Alex I follow
- [50:21]
Frankie Corrado
is to Toronto Alex and I guess book it E5. I learned and again this is. I learned that while it was a tough week to be Brad Treliving, it was a pretty good week to be anyone else in a front office around the league who might be attractive to the Maple Leafs because there is now suddenly a big, a big, a big hunter out there looking for, looking to hire some, some folks. And if you need an extension, today's a pretty good day to go have a meeting with the owner. And I'm not even, I'm not even saying you walk into the owner's office and you, and you say I want a raise. I want an extension. I'm just saying walk in, just have a little conversation and then have, have your Buddy with a 416 area code call you up on your phone and just make sure he sees that. Yeah. Oh, I got. Hello? Oh yeah, yeah, I did hear about that. Interesting. Jim Nil. Who. If I mean, you're talking about a big name gm if, if, if the Leafs were so inclined, he'd be just about the biggest of all coincidentally signs an extension the day, the very same day.
- [51:35]
Sean Gentili
No, no, no, no, no. He, he didn't sign it. That was done already. They had, they, they, they had that, they had that finished and it was in a drawer and they just magically opened the drawer and remembered that it was there when Keith Kelly's up there, you know, talking about what an interesting large language models or whatever.
- [51:54]
Frankie Corrado
What a, what an interesting coincidence. But yeah, if, if you're out there and you're looking for, you know, a little bump, hey, maybe a few extra vacation days, maybe you're thinking might be fun to have a foosball table in the office. Now's not a bad day. Just, just pretend that Keith Pelley is calling you up and you can probably, you can probably squeeze a little bit from the current boss and then not, and then not go to Toronto, which I think is, is called living the dream for 31 front offices around the league.
- [52:28]
Sean Gentili
Lots of front offices. Front office members talking to their bosses today and said, I'm feeling pretty, pretty data driven, you know. Yeah, I woke up today and I just, I was thinking about data more than I ever have before.
- [52:40]
Frankie Corrado
I was, you know, waiting for the subway, and I did see the train coming. I'm pretty good at seeing trains coming. Don't you agree?
- [52:46]
Sean Gentili
Oh, my God, dude, we got a goalie fight. That's what. That's what I learned. Here's. I learned something specific about one of those guys that was. That was in the fight, Igor Shurkin vs. Jacob Markstrom last night. Don't think I knew that. Shurkin had that club in his bag. He kind of fed it to Markstrom. He started it. He was. He was in the mix with. With. With Paul Cotter, I think, on the. On the Devils, which. Which is what set off Markstrom. Markstrom comes down, looks for some smoke, and she. Sturkin gives it to him. That was unexpected.
- [53:18]
Frankie Corrado
You know, some of the best advice that I ever got was I had somebody tell me once, they said, if. If you're ever in a situation where you might be in a fight, you've got to very quickly figure out, does this other guy know how to fight? And you've got to. If they. If they look like they're not worried, they're telling you the answer. And I got to say, Markstrom, full credit. And, you know, hey, it's been the year of the goalie fight, and it's. You know, there's not. Devils and Rangers, got nothing going on. Yeah, sure, get on down there. Check something off the bucket list, all of that. But it was. The moment when I was worried for him was when he got down to the ice, and Shusturkin just kind of gave him one of these, like, just hold on a second, and started doing the glove. Like, Igor Sterkin could not have looked less concerned by the fact that another goalie had suddenly appeared in his peripheral. He. He was not. He wasn't hyped. He didn't. You know, there was no. He wasn't startled. It was just like, yeah, just give me a second. And at that point, that's got to be when Jacob Markstrom was like, I may have made a mistake here, because this guy. This guy. I think I'm getting an answer to the question of, does this guy know what he's doing in a fight situation? And you know what? Credit to Igor Shusturkin, because he's a guy that. One of my very favorite subplots over the years with the Rangers is Igor Shusturkin trying to score a goal. He very clearly, desperately wants to score that goal. This is the next best thing, you know? And, yeah, we've talked about goalies having the Gordie Howe hat trick for their career. He's. He's one away now,
- [55:01]
Sean Gentili
but yeah, he's the heir apparent. He's the heir apparent of Flurry for goalies who want to do other. Other stuff.
- [55:07]
Frankie Corrado
Exactly.
- [55:08]
Sean Gentili
Because Flurry wanted the goal more than anything.
- [55:10]
Frankie Corrado
I think. I think Mark Andre Fleury might be there apparent. Maybe he's. He's next in somewhere. Get him in there.
- [55:16]
Sean Gentili
Just.
- [55:16]
Frankie Corrado
Just for, just for the fight. We're gonna put him in the last minute. He's gonna shoot at an open net, and then he's. I guess he can't shoot an open net and have a goalie fight.
- [55:24]
Sean Gentili
I just. I just. I just kind of feel like we haven't said our proper goodbyes to Mark Andre Fleury.
- [55:29]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah, he just. He left so abruptly, like, like we didn't get a chance to. To really appreciate him.
- [55:35]
Sean McIndu
I.
- [55:35]
Frankie Corrado
Three goalie fights this year after none since 2020. And I really feel like this is one of those things where each one makes the next one more likely. And I. I don't know who's next. We almost. We almost got one Monday night. Anthony Stollers was trying.
- [55:56]
Sean Gentili
Yes.
- [55:56]
Frankie Corrado
To start to get going with Villa Husso, who was like, dude, I'm half your size and I. I didn't hit Austin Matthews. What are you doing? I'm not.
- [56:05]
Sean Gentili
But Anthony still are 6 foot 7, and he absolutely would have gotten hurt during that fight.
- [56:10]
Frankie Corrado
This. This is what happens when save percentages are down around the league. These guys are. Are frustrated, mad. They're mad they can't wear their same giant equipment. They can't. They can't put grandma's couch cushions under their sweater anymore. It's a tough time to be a goalie, and they're very frustrated. And that's why I'm not hanging out with Jesse Granger anytime soon, because I don't. I don't know what he would do. All of these guys are. Are out of their minds, but I. Do you think. Do you think we got one more in us for the end of the year?
- [56:42]
Sean Gentili
That's a good question.
- [56:42]
Frankie Corrado
Is there an. Like, we got the March fight in under the wire.
- [56:46]
Sean Gentili
Stuff's get. Stuff's getting weird. For sure. I. I feel like. I feel like seven games or whatever's
- [56:52]
Frankie Corrado
left is just not, you know who it might be. Lena Salmark versus James Reimer. That might be the one. If we had a practice goalie fight. No. Feels like it's been a minute.
- [57:03]
Sean Gentili
Frankie to Frankie to watch the sins. Practice goalie fight in utter, utter disgust. Buddy, what's, what's up for you today? I haven't, I haven't checked post yet.
- [57:15]
Frankie Corrado
I, I got a post up today is this is going to blow you away. It's about the Leafs and their GM search. A very, a very undercover topic. If you go to theathletic.com torontomapaleafs need a new GM and you scroll for about 45 minutes, you can get down to, to my post and it is eight tough questions that I want the Leafs to ask their next GM candidate.
- [57:40]
Sean Gentili
I wound up you land on eight.
- [57:43]
Frankie Corrado
I just started writing and, and, and I, for once I just let the number be the number instead of trying to force it to a nice round number. And I had to stop at eight because, I mean, you can't do nine. You're gonna do nine.
- [57:55]
Sean Gentili
This is one of the questions. Do you have a chat GPT Pro subscription?
- [57:59]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah. Do you have a chat GPT as somebody somebody on, on social suggested that one of the questions should be are you Peter Chiarelli? Oh, no, that's question good. A good one too. But no, I, I, I, I stayed a little more serious on this. I, I really think there are some, some tough questions that need to be asked and that I, I would like to see them ask. And I'm offering my consulting services to my good buddy Keith Pelly and my pals and Rogers for to help them get this one right.
- [58:33]
Sean Gentili
I'm gonna read that after we hang up. I'm excited. I can't get enough of this. I love, I love, I love Leafs executive executive search Talk. Give me more. Thank you, buddy. Thank you, Frankie, wherever you are. Three games. The NHL tonight, folks. It's Canucks, abs, Blues Kings, Duck Sharks. You know what that means. It's a good night to do something else. Go have dinner, see your families. Ignore this one because there's not that much on tv. Me and Haley are back tomorrow. Talk to you real soon.
- [59:04]
Commercial Announcer
Foreign.
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Sean McIndu
Francais hablas espanol Parl Italiano.
- [59:43]
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