The Athletic Hockey Show – December 4, 2025

Episode Title: Will the Seguin injury slow down the shooting Stars?
Hosts: Haley Salvian & Shayna Goldman

Overview

This episode focuses on the impact of Tyler Seguin’s season-ending injury on the Dallas Stars, with a robust discussion of their forward depth, possible lineup changes, and the playoff outlook. The hosts also dig into broader NHL trends—specifically, the clustered league standings, the merits of revising the NHL’s point system, and a detailed check-in on the PWHL (Professional Women's Hockey League) expansion. The show wraps up with recognition for Cassie Campbell-Pascall and Patrice Bergeron, recently inducted into the IIHF Hall of Fame.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dallas Stars' Injury Woes: Seguin’s Absence and Duchene’s Return

Timestamps: 03:40–09:54

• Tyler Seguin’s Injury:

  • Out likely for the year with an ACL injury (“...likely going to be out for the remainder of the Dallas Stars season because of an ACL injury. There aren’t full tests done... but the Stars head coach said ...it’s likely the entire year.” — Haley, 03:41)
  • A significant blow given Seguin’s 17 points in 26 games, especially after his shortened previous season.

• Stars’ Depth Analysis:

  • Dallas called “one of the deepest forward groups in the league,” but without Seguin and Duchene, they risk becoming a shallow two-line team (Shayna, 04:44).
  • Third line will be crucial, especially with a likely playoff path through the Central Division against the Colorado Avalanche.

• Matt Duchene’s Impending Return:

  • Duchene expected back soon—decision looms: play him as a top-six winger or a third-line center?
  • Duchene’s impact: “That second line was a huge part of [Dallas’] success last year... Duchene was the most important player on it. So to get him back is going to be a huge plus.” (Shayna, 06:04)
  • His return boosts versatility, especially with multiple centers; rust is a potential issue due to age and time off.

• Aging Core’s Value:

  • Discussion of Seguin and Jamie Benn as “old dudes who are now just solid middle-six players”—no longer leading stars, but still valuable in their roles.
  • “That is what is maybe disappointing is you're gonna lose a bit of that in Tyler Sagan... I thought he was like pretty valuable to the stars last year, even though he's not, you know, the guy that stirs the drink anymore...” (Haley, 06:57)

2. Around the NHL: Lightning Contract News and Clustered Standings

Timestamps: 09:54–17:52

• Ryan McDonagh’s Extension With Tampa Bay:

  • Three-year, $12.3M deal for the 36-year-old veteran. Shayna calls it “fine... he’s still effective” as a shutdown defenseman.
  • Importance of McDonagh’s presence: “It revitalized Chernak, made Victor Hedman’s life a lot easier, got the top four going and that’s what you need...” (Shayna, 10:37)
  • Tampa's approach: maximize current window, knowing some contracts won’t age perfectly.

• Tightly Clustered NHL Standings:

  • Lightning lead the Atlantic, but only a point or two separates top teams like Flyers, Devils, Penguins.
  • Noted “rebuilding” or written-off teams are still firmly in the mix (12:16).

• Tampa’s Season So Far:

  • Overcoming a bad start and injuries. Standouts: J.J. Moser for Hedman, Vasilevskiy improving, Brandon Hagel stepping up when Point was out (Shayna, 13:04).
  • Praise for John Cooper’s coaching adaptability.

3. Fixing the Standings: 3-Point System and Its Impact

Timestamps: 14:25–22:04

• Call for a 3-2-1 Point System:

  • Desire to reward regulation wins with 3 points, and better differentiate between earning overtime/shootout points and losing.
  • “That right there should be worth more than three on three, which I love, but it's not true hockey ... the loser points... weigh everything down so much...” (Shayna, 15:14)
  • A 3-2-1 system would more fairly depict which teams are truly good, and could influence team approaches in late-game scenarios and over the course of the season.

• Visualization of Tight Standings:

  • Referenced Shayna’s visual analysis showing how little separation exists.
  • Notable that 11 points separated 3rd from 29th place—“not a lot at all.” (Shayna, 15:26)
  • Overtime games (and thus three-point games) are on the rise, contributing to congestion.

• Potential Effects:

  • Could encourage bolder late-game strategies (e.g., goalie pulls in OT), more meaningful divisional matchups, and less reliance on loser points.
  • “Why not see what teams would do to get weird?” (Shayna, 18:50)

• Comparisons:

  • Cites the PWHL’s use of a 3-2-1 system as a functional model.

4. PWHL Expansion – Seattle & Vancouver Check-In; League’s Next Steps

Timestamps: 25:49–46:37

• Seattle Torrent Drama:

  • Late-game heroics by US Olympic trio Alex Carpenter, Hilary Knight, and Hannah Bilka; came from behind with two power play goals in the final minutes (Haley, 26:52).
  • Showcased Torrent’s star power and offensive potential.

• Vancouver Golden Eyes Offensive Struggles:

  • “Two shots in the first period... For a team that on paper has the most offense in the PWHL, that’s tough.” (Haley, 27:52)
  • Shayna’s fix: “I’m flying to Vancouver, I’m sitting in the stands, and I’m going to scream shoot. Just the entire time.” (28:00)
  • Adjustment period is real for new teams with rushed training camps and thrown-together lineups.

• Impact of OT/Regulation Wins in Standings:

  • Discussed how the 3-2-1 point system is revealing for these new teams, and for others in the league like the Boston Fleet.

• PWHL Expansion Outlook:

  • Amy Scheer (PWHL exec) has suggested moving to 12 teams as soon as next year; league could add 2 or even 4 more franchises.
  • Hosts debate the merits of rapid expansion (Haley: “just rip the bandaid off”; Shayna: cautions against growing too fast).
  • Consideration of market infrastructure, impact on players (frequent moves, wages), and historical lessons from WNBA expansion.
  • “Sometimes things that get too big too soon...the faster you rise, the faster you fall.” (Shayna, 34:36)

• Potential Expansion Markets:

  • US: Detroit, Denver, Chicago, Pittsburgh, D.C.
  • Canada: Calgary, Edmonton, Halifax.
  • Host favorites: Chicago, Detroit, Denver, Halifax.

5. IIHF Hall of Fame Inductions & Canadian Hockey Greats

Timestamps: 49:48–52:57

• Cassie Campbell-Pascall and Patrice Bergeron:
  • Both inducted into the 2026 IIHF Hall of Fame.
  • Cassie Campbell highlighted as a “Canadian icon”—two Olympics, seven World Championships, long absence from any Hall of Fame recognition until now.
  • Bergeron described as “the gold standard for two-way play at all levels...name the Selke after him because he won it a million times.” (Shayna, 51:10)
  • Push for Cassie Campbell to also be inducted as a “builder” into the Hockey Hall of Fame.
  • Other IIHF inductees: Florence Schelling, Thomas Vanek, Nicholas Kronwall, and builder Ralph Krueger.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Stars’ Depth:

  • “They're lucky… one of the deepest forward groups in the league and that's going to help them. But...they're a little more of a two-line team than I think we anticipated.” — Shayna (04:44)

• On Jamie Benn and Aging Stars:

  • “I thought [Benn] was playing way too tough of minutes for like what he brings...but this season… he's just the complimentary part of that line...I wonder if that gets his offense going a bit more” — Shayna (08:09)

• On 3-2-1 Point System:

  • “A regulation win that's in 60 minutes of five-on-five…should be worth more than three-on-three, which I love… but it's not true hockey… loser points weighing everything down so much…” — Shayna (15:14)

• PWHL Expansion Market Wish-List:

  • “This is the most important thing in my life right now. Chicago expansion. And you ensure, you collude, you cheat, you get Abby Murphy there, I’m in.” — Haley (40:15)
  • “I do like Detroit a lot… a big, really passionate hockey market... I like the idea of Denver too… so it’s not Vancouver just going to New York all the time.” — Shayna (38:28)

• On Cassie Campbell-Pascall’s IIHF Induction:

  • “She should be in as a builder. We need more women in as builders. Yeah. Like, we need more women in the hall of fame, period.” — Shayna (52:50)

Segment Timestamps

• 03:40–09:54: Dallas Stars (Seguin’s injury/Duchene/Benn)
• 09:54–13:04: Lightning’s McDonagh extension & Atlantic standings
• 13:04–17:52: League parity, standings, and point system debate
• 25:49–46:37: PWHL check-in, expansion debates, and wish-list markets
• 49:48–52:57: IIHF Hall of Fame inductions (Campbell-Pascall, Bergeron, others)

Summary

This episode offers a sharp view into the impact of a major injury on a contending NHL team and the nuances of competitive balance in both men’s and women’s hockey. Haley and Shayna’s chemistry yields both laughs and thoughtful takes—whether they’re analyzing Jamie Benn’s resurgence, stumping for a league-wide points overhaul, or fantasy-booking PWHL’s expansion into new markets. The episode concludes with heartfelt respect for Cassie Campbell-Pascall and Patrice Bergeron, reminding listeners of hockey’s rich history and ongoing evolution.