Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily – "How did we get here? | Morning Shoot Around"

Release Date: May 28, 2025
Hosts: Andrew Schlecht, Dave Defore, Esper Heaney
Guest: Xena Keda

Introduction

In the episode titled "How did we get here? | Morning Shoot Around," hosted by Andrew Schlecht, Dave Defore, and Esper Heaney, the discussion delves deep into the strategic team-building approaches of NBA franchises, focusing primarily on the Indiana Pacers and the Oklahoma City Thunder. The hosts analyze the anatomy of these teams that have surged to a 3:1 lead in the conference finals, exploring how strategic trades, exceptional coaching, and player development have propelled them to the forefront of the league.

Indiana Pacers’ Strategic Team Building

Building Without the Luxury Tax

Andrew Schlecht opens the conversation by expressing surprise at the Pacers' unexpected rise to the NBA Finals, admitting, "I didn't have enough of an imagination to think that the Pacers could make the NBA Finals" (01:49), highlighting the team's remarkable turnaround.

Rick Carlisle’s Impact

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Rick Carlisle's role as the Pacers' head coach. Dave Defore praises Carlisle, stating, "Rick Carlisle and his sort of imprint and identity... he's one of the best coaches of all time" (05:03). Carlisle's ability to develop a versatile roster and implement a system where players can seamlessly fit and excel is underscored as a cornerstone of the Pacers' success.

Smart Trades and Draft Picks

Esper Heaney emphasizes the Pacers' front office excellence, noting, "They have nailed their picks, they have nailed transactions. They buy low on players that you might think aren't going to be legitimate NBA players and then they turn out to be NBA players" (07:28). The team’s calculated moves, such as trading for assets like Andrew Nemhardt and Ben Shepard, have been pivotal in assembling a competitive squad without overstepping the salary cap.

Depth and Consistency

The Pacers' consistent playoff appearances are attributed to their depth and ability to maintain elite talent. Esper highlights, "They have players that they drafted and traded who fit the system perfectly," (07:20) ensuring the team remains competitive year after year without excessive reliance on high-priced stars.

Oklahoma City Thunder’s Rebuilding Journey

Sam Presti’s Visionary Leadership

The Thunder's General Manager, Sam Presti, is lauded for his meticulous team-building strategy. Andrew Schlecht remarks, "He [Presti] has a way that he thinks about basketball and the way that he wants basketball to be played in general" (49:44). Presti's focus on drafting exceptionally well and making smart trades has laid the foundation for the Thunder's resurgence.

Drafting and Player Development

Esper Heaney and Dave Defore discuss the importance of the Thunder's draft picks, particularly the 2022 draft where "they traded to get Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren, which built the core of this team" (22:07). Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) emerges as a transformative player whose development is central to the team’s success.

Coaching Excellence: Mark Daigneault

The role of head coach Mark Daigneault is highlighted as instrumental in translating Presti's vision into on-court performance. Dave Defore praises Daigneault, stating, "He [Daigneault] is one of the smartest people that I've met and he's also one of the most emotionally attuned" (73:30), emphasizing his ability to foster player growth and maintain team cohesion.

Trades Shaping the Finals

Paul George and Domantas Sabonis Trades

Both the Pacers and Thunder have executed significant trades involving star players Paul George and Domantas Sabonis. Andrew Schlecht points out, "it is at least a fact that both teams that are in pole position to be in the finals traded Paul George" (20:17). These trades have not only reshaped the rosters but also impacted the teams’ dynamics and champion prospects.

Market Challenges

Dave Defore discusses the complexities of trading high-profile players, particularly Paul George, due to contractual and market constraints. "Paul George is still easier to fit on your basketball team than Sabonis is," (21:00) he notes, underscoring the strategic decisions teams must make when handling such trades.

Player Development and System Fit

Developing Versatile Players

The discussion highlights the importance of player versatility and fit within team systems. Esper remarks, "Pascal Siakam... is still their best player to me... he's spacing out to the corner off and he's a release valve" (33:07), illustrating how players like Siakam and Halliburton thrive within their respective systems by adapting their roles to meet team needs.

Depth and Rotation Management

Andrew Schlecht and Dave Defore analyze how the Thunder and Pacers manage their rotations to maximize performance. "They experiment a lot with their lineups. They'll throw Dylan Jones in there for lineups," (60:44), explains Esper, highlighting the strategic depth management that keeps their squads competitive throughout the grueling NBA season.

Front Office and Coaching Synergy

Organizational Alignment

A recurring theme is the synergy between front office decisions and coaching strategies. Dave Defore states, "It's organized level team. Yes," (69:11) emphasizing that a unified vision from both the front office and coaching staff is crucial for sustained success.

Innovative Coaching Approaches

The hosts discuss the emergence of younger, development-focused coaches who mirror successful models from teams like the Pacers and Thunder. Esper Heaney notes, "It's like a new age of coaching in a lot of ways where there's like, an old guard of coaches and a new guard of coaches," (71:39), pointing to the evolving landscape of NBA coaching.

Future Outlook and Sustainability

Long-Term Planning

Andrew Schlecht and the other hosts speculate on the future moves of both the Pacers and Thunder, considering contract extensions and potential trades. "They have gotten this team built extremely intentionally," (68:22) asserts Schlecht, suggesting that both teams have robust plans to maintain their competitive edge through strategic acquisitions and player development.

Replicability of Success

Esper Heaney contemplates whether other teams can replicate the Pacers’ and Thunder’s success strategies. "It's really hard to replicate what Indiana did. It's also really hard to replicate what OKC did," (35:33), she observes, concluding that while admirable, these strategies require exceptional organizational alignment and vision that may not be easily duplicated.

Notable Quotes

• Andrew Schlecht (01:49): "I didn't have enough of an imagination to think that the Pacers could make the NBA Finals."

• Dave Defore (05:03): "Rick Carlisle and his sort of imprint and identity... he's one of the best coaches of all time."

• Esper Heaney (07:28): "They buy low on players that you might think aren't going to be legitimate NBA players and then they turn out to be NBA players."

• Andrew Schlecht (20:17): "It is at least a fact that both teams that are in pole position to be in the finals traded Paul George."

• Esper Heaney (33:07): "Pascal Siakam... is still their best player to me... he's spacing out to the corner off and he's a release valve."

• Dave Defore (73:30): "He [Daigneault] is one of the smartest people that I've met and he's also one of the most emotionally attuned."

Conclusion

The episode "How did we get here? | Morning Shoot Around" offers an in-depth analysis of successful team-building strategies within the NBA, as exemplified by the Indiana Pacers and Oklahoma City Thunder. Through strategic trades, exceptional coaching, and a focus on player development and system fit, these teams have crafted competitive rosters capable of challenging for championships. The discussion emphasizes that while these strategies are effective, they require meticulous planning and organizational harmony, making them challenging to replicate across the league.

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