Bulls Buzzer Beater + Zion returns for Pelicans

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily — November 20, 2025

Episode: Bulls Buzzer Beater + Zion returns for Pelicans

Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita
Guest: Will Guillory
Summary by: [Expert Podcast Summarizer]
Skip to regular content at [02:20]

---

Overview

This episode recaps a night of surprising NBA action, focusing on the Houston Rockets' statement win over the Cleveland Cavaliers, the surging Toronto Raptors, the Chicago Bulls' buzzer-beater thriller, and a big-picture look at the New Orleans Pelicans following Zion Williamson's return and the firing of head coach Willie Green. Insights on team dynamics, rookie development, and organizational turmoil weave throughout the discussion.

---

Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Rockets Big Win Over Cavaliers: Lineups, Offense, and Sustainability

[02:20 – 08:19]

• Houston's Experimentation with Size:

  • Rockets began with a “double big” lineup to counter Cleveland’s established dual-big system, leading to Houston controlling the early game. Cleveland, severely short-handed (missing Ty Jerome, Caris LeVert, Max Strus, and Darius Garland), had its 9th different starting lineup and their lowest-scoring first quarter this season (Dave, 02:53).
  • “The Rockets got a big boost out of the gate thanks to the double big lineup, but also a little bit because the Cavs are down and scuffling.” — Dave DuFour [03:30]

• Cleveland's Struggles Without Playmaking:

  • With Donovan Mitchell cold early (1-7 shooting through three quarters), scoring stagnated. Without Garland and other creators, the Cavs’ offense became predictable.

• Houston's Offensive Identity Crisis:

  • Heavy reliance on individual creation and isolations for Alperen Sengun and Kevin Durant, with offensive rebounding (notably by Steven Adams) as a key component but not a sustainable long-term plan.
  • Houston ranks 30th in 3-point rate, hurting offensive spacing, especially against quality defenses. Amen Thompson’s role was highlighted, but Houston’s offensive system drew skepticism from both hosts.
  • “I couldn’t tell you what kind of sets they’re out there running. … It’s a lot of beat your man, make a play.” — Dave DuFour [05:52]
  • “It’s not sustainable. Especially when defenses start to pick up on the fact you can only score inside the arc.” — Zena Keita [07:16]

• Cleveland’s Late Comeback:

  • Aaron Holiday’s timely shooting helped Houston respond to a late Cavs push, despite their offensive drought.

---

2. Raptors on the Rise: Chemistry, Defense, and “Surprise” Success

[08:18 – 11:15]

• Unexpected Surge:

  • Toronto is now 10-5, riding a five-game win streak. The Brandon Ingram addition is paying off on both ends, especially his defensive effort, with the synergy on that end highlighted.
  • “Honestly, like Brandon Ingram … it has worked out for them. Especially I’ve seen more of him on the defensive end and it fits because this group defensively can just cause so much chaos.” — Dave DuFour [08:18]

• Athleticism & Youth:

  • Credit to development of Scottie Barnes, RJ Barrett, and the boost from young players like Grady Dick and Ochai Agbaji.
  • Despite poor 3-point shooting (bottom three in the league), top-10 offense and defense, fueled by transition play and versatile scoring.
  • “They just needed a little more finesse to their game. Bring in Brandon Ingram, one of the best finessers to his offensive game.” — Zena Keita [09:39]

• Forecasts & Fun:

  • Joking about S (Esfandiar Baraheni) soon predicting 50 Raptor wins.
  • “S is going to be claiming 50 wins next week. I’m calling it right now.” — Dave DuFour [11:11]

---

3. Bulls Edge Blazers in Buzzer-Beater; Kobe White’s Electric Return

[11:15 – 14:11]

• Game Recap:

  • Bulls defeat Trail Blazers on a Nikola Vucevic buzzer-beating three.
    “Nikola Vucevic goes off, he hits the game-winning three as the buzzer goes off.” — Dave DuFour [11:36]
  • Kobe White’s rapid impact since return (27 points first game, 25 in this one, high assists) praised as the missing ingredient in the Bulls’ offense.
  • Emphasis on “thunder and lightning” dynamic between White and new acquisition Josh Giddey.

• Team Dynamics:

  • Chicago’s offensive efficiency stands out: 36 assists this game, part of a three-game stretch with 31+ assists nightly.
  • Portland outshot, out-rebounded, and outran the Bulls, but Chicago’s offense was simply more effective.

• Key Moment:

  • Defensive lapse by Portland’s Tamanu Kamara opened the door for Vucevic’s game-winner after over-helping on Kobe White.
  • “All the people that love defense – they’re the antonym to that. They’re like, no, no, offense wins games, okay?” — Zena Keita [14:11]

---

4. Pelicans’ New Era: Zion Returns, Derrick Queen’s Breakout, & Coaching Chaos

[17:45 – 35:23]

Zion’s Return & Derrick Queen’s Breakout

[17:45 – 23:09]

• Zion’s Limited Yet Promising Comeback:

  • Zion Williamson, in uniform with Trey Murphy, Derrick Queen, and Jeremiah Fears, drew defensive attention and flashed chemistry in half-court sets.
  • “Whenever he’s on the court, he just gets so much attention. … you saw certain flashes with him in particular, him, [Derrick] Queen and Trey Murphy out there… This might actually be a thing.” — Will Guillory [18:08]

• Derrick Queen Impresses Against Jokic:

  • Queen notched 30 points, showing surprising skill and confidence against Nikola Jokic—including isolation face-ups, inside-out moves, and directing teammates on the court.
  • “There are certain moments where we’ve heard from some of his veteran teammates … Queen is telling us where to go … I’ll find you. That’s stuff you don’t hear from rookie, especially rookie big men.” — Will Guillory [19:57]
  • Noted basketball IQ, confidence, and playmaking; compared loosely to Jokic and Draymond Green as development benchmarks.

• Growth Mentality:

  • Queen soaking up advice from veterans like Draymond Green; both Queen and Fears framed as “sponges” vital to the Pelicans’ future.
  • “He was on the line learning from this guy, like taking it in, absorbing it. … That was really cool to see.” — Zena Keita [21:57]

Coaching Turmoil & Organizational Fallout

[25:27 – 35:23]

• Willie Green’s Firing—A Dysfunctional Saga:

  • Ownership repeatedly delayed the firing, undermining Green’s authority and causing a “dead man walking” effect in the locker room.
  • “Frankly, the entire locker room was kind of just done with Willie. … There was no authority in his voice.” — Will Guillory [26:51]
  • Lax effort and accountability plagued the team as players and staff waited for the inevitable, setting a poor example for rookies and derailing early development.

• Impact on Rookies and Franchise:

  • “It was malpractice by everybody involved to allow it to get to this point. … Now they’re starting from scratch, 15 games in, with a new coach.” — Will Guillory [26:51]
  • Hosts lament the precedent set for young players about tuning out coaches.

• James Borrego Era Begins:

  • Borrego, described as eloquent and media-friendly, inherits a 70-game “runway” to set a new tone and system.
  • Potential candidates for next head coach include Darvin Ham, Kevin Ollie, Taylor Jenkins; skepticism that star coaches would want the job due to current roster/situation.
  • “They blocked him [Borrego] from interviewing for other jobs, which probably means they had eyed him for this job anyway. And he’s got 70 games to figure out if he can create some sort of an identity.” — Dave DuFour [34:20]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Rockets’ Offense:
  “Their offense stalls out. They don’t have much of an offense, per se … everything being predicated off beat your man … it just can’t be your only offense.” — Dave DuFour [05:52]

• On Raptors’ Defensive Turnaround:
  “They’re just playing phenomenally. … In the last five games that they’ve won in a row, they are top 10 in almost every statistical category.” — Zena Keita [10:53]

• On Derrick Queen’s Poise:
  “He just went directly into Jokic’s chest and scored several times … this kid is 15 games into his career, and he’s doing this against the best player in the world.” — Will Guillory [19:57]

• On the Pelicans’ Coaching Debacle:
  “Once the players kind of see ‘Dead Man Walking’ written on the coach’s forehead, your authority in the locker room is gone.” — Will Guillory [26:51]

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment/Theme | Timestamps | |------------------------------------------------|-----------------| | Rockets vs. Cavaliers recap & analysis | 02:20 – 08:19 | | Raptors’ win streak & team maturation | 08:18 – 11:15 | | Bulls’ buzzer-beater win & Kobe White’s return | 11:15 – 14:11 | | Pelicans: Zion’s return & Derrick Queen | 17:45 – 23:09 | | Pelicans: Willie Green firing & fallout | 25:27 – 35:23 |

---

Tone and Style

• Conversational, insightful, and occasionally irreverent, the discussion blends smart basketball analysis with humor and directness, especially when addressing organizational dysfunction or player trends.
• Notable asides and jokes include running gags about hosts’ preseason predictions and tongue-in-cheek references to fan optimism (“claiming 50 wins next week”).

---

Summary Takeaways

• Rockets are tough and big, but their offensive system and lack of shooting are long-term concerns.
• The Raptors have transformed into a high-energy, cohesive squad—one of this young season’s true surprises.
• The Bulls’ recent run and last-second heroics may mark a turning point, with Kobe White’s return catalyzing electric team play.
• The Pelicans’ organizational mishandling of their coaching situation set back rookie development and sets a cautionary tale, but there’s promise in rookie standouts and a (potentially) stabilizing presence in James Borrego.

---

For NBA fans and podcast listeners, this episode offers a detailed look into several teams’ crossroads and emerging narratives, peppered with both hard-hitting analysis and lively banter.

Transcript

[Capital One Advertiser]

Got a new puppy or kitten? Congrats. But also yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune. Which is where Lemonade Pet Insurance comes in. It helps you cover vet costs so that you can focus on what's best for you and your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'llemonade.com pet your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is.

[NBA Analyst 1]

If you love to travel, Capital One.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Has a rewards credit card that's perfect for you. With the Capital One Venture X card.

[NBA Analyst 1]

You earn unlimited double miles on everything you buy.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Plus you get premium benefits at a.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Collection of luxury hotels when you book.

[Capital One Advertiser]

On Capital One Travel.

[NBA Analyst 1]

And with Venture X, you get access.

[Capital One Advertiser]

To over 1,000 airport lounges worldwide.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Open up a world of travel possibilities.

[Capital One Advertiser]

With a Capital One Venture X card. What's in your wallet?

[Dave DeFore]

Terms apply.

[Will Guillory]

Lounge access is subject to change.

[Dave DeFore]

See capital1.com for details.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Hey, Andrew Schlecht here. The NBA on Prime is back this Friday with another great Emirates NBA cup doubleheader. The night starts with Pascal Siakam and the Indiana Pacers meeting Donovan Mitchell and the Cleveland Cavaliers. And then it's down to Texas as Nicole Jokic and the Denver Nuggets get their first look at Kevin Durant and the Houston Rockets and and if you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial and get started today. Remember, it's the Pacers and Cavs, the Nuggets and Rockets. If you are a hoops head at all, you're going to be locked in to Nuggets Rockets. These are two of the best teams in the Western Conference. Two teams that should be vying for the Western Conference Finals. Both fan bases should be disappointed if that's not where they get and we get our first look on prime at this big time matchup. Coverage starts Friday at 6:30 Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[Dave DeFore]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for November 20, 2025. I'm Dave DeFore here with Zena Keda. Coming up, the Rockets get a big win over the Cavaliers. We're going to break that down a little bit. The Raptors up their fifth win s might have been right about them and Will Gill is here to talk about The Pelicans, how Derek Queen is looking, Zion's return, and the fallout from Willie Green getting fired. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, Zeno. What's going on?

[NBA Analyst 1]

I'm so excited to talk about these games. Yeah, crazy ending. We thought it was going to be a quiet night, and then all of.

[Dave DeFore]

A sudden we got some pretty good basketball games. You know, it's one of those nights where, you know, we look at the schedule, you, you know, month ahead of time, we're like, okay, this is probably the big game. Who do we want to talk to? We never know what these nights are going to be. But with the NBA cup, the schedule has been weird. These not been great games on these Monday and Wednesday nights where it feels like they're just jamming all the, you know, it's like games that aren't rivalries. Houston and Cleveland, for instance, happens to be two good teams, but does it mean anything? I don't know, Xena, but it was a good basketball game. And the Rockets, I want to talk about this because they started big to go against the Cavs, and we've been talking about the Cavs sticking with their double big lineups this year, being experimental for them, and just the myriad of injuries that they've dealt with to start the year. They actually, this was their ninth starting lineup of the season and their lowest scoring first quarter of the year. So the Rockets got a big boost out of the gate thanks to the double big lineup, but also a little bit because the Cavs are down and scuffling.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Yeah, I mean, the thing about it is we did not realize how much Ty Jerome, Caris Lavert, even Max Stru being out, how much that playmaking was going to be needed with the absence of a Darius Garland. And early on in this game, you saw if Donovan Mitchell isn't getting off, which he had only he was one of seven through the first three quarters. He didn't get going until the fourth quarter. Sometimes it can be a little bit tough to find some buckets for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Meanwhile, Houston, they were just being big and allowing Alperin Shangoon to do the thing that he's been doing all season long. This is unprecedented the way we are seeing Alpern Changun be the outlet pass from Amen Thompson. He's the one taking the ball up the court fully if someone, no one stops him. We saw him, we saw him do it several times last night. If no one stops him, he goes all the way to the basket. The only thing for me, though is there were moments particularly in that second half where the ball movement stopped, the cuts to the basket slowed down, that back line that you typically, you know, I'm in Thompson now, he's facing up, he's getting the ball in the perimeter. But where does he usually eat? On that back line of the defense coming towards the basketball, all of that movement kind of slowed down and you started seeing more and more of what we've seen a lot of times for Houston, the clear outs, right? Alperin Shangun gets to the middle of the floor or he gets into that low post and everyone's just kind of standing and watching him go to work, or his buddy KD does that and Cleveland picked up on it, they started swarming, they started making it incredibly difficult for Kevin Durant or Alperin Chengun to catch the ball. And lo and behold, who gets the game to single digits. After Houston had left, had led the game majority of the game and had been in double digit leads. It was, it had me thinking about some questions around the Houston offense.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, their offense stalls out. They don't have much of an offense per se. Like, I couldn't tell you what kind of sets they're out there running. I mean, you know, it's not a motion offense or anything, a flex. They're not doing much of that. It's a lot of beat your man, make a play. And this, you know, we're going to. A lot of people are going to talk about how they need a point guard or whatnot. I just think that they need more of an offensive identity, a system that would allow them to get some easy buckets. You know, everything being predicated off beat your man. And hey, when the defense, when they double Shangoon and they double kd, we can make plays off of that. That's not going to be there come playoff time. And Zena, I'll tell you something else. I worry about the sustainability of this long term. But grabbing 37, 38% of your own misses, while that is fantastic offense, when you do it, that just, I just don't believe, even as big as they are and as good as Stephen Adams is, he is maybe the best offensive rebounder in NBA history. Like statistics. So six best. There you go. So I like, I understand it and as the old basketball coach in me comes out, offensive rebounding is great and it's a key to winning. It is a part of it. But man, that cannot be your only offense and it really can't be the offense that you're depending on to win basketball games. So, you know it's early. I still think there's room for a men to grow too into this role.

[NBA Analyst 1]

But yeah, it's not only just how they're scoring, it's particularly where they're scoring. Right now they are 30th last in the league in their three point rate. They're also getting most of their buckets and in the mid range. Yeah, that's cool and all, but when you get to a team that knows how to suffocate the middle of the floor, you've got to be able to have some consistent outside shooting to be able to get that spacing back open and to give your players like Alper and Shangoon and a KD space to operate. And it can't all be Reed Shepherd. We saw Aaron Holiday come in at the end of that game against Cleveland. He was their saving grace. He was the only reason that they were able to to sustain the run that Donovan Mitchell had in that late in that fourth quarter. But being 30th in the league and you're above the break threes, being 30th in the league in your ability to put up points through the three point ball like it's, it's, it's not sustainable. Especially when defenses start to pick up on the fact that oh, you guys can only score inside the arm.

[Dave DeFore]

Right?

[NBA Analyst 1]

Okay, let's test that.

[Dave DeFore]

Yep, the Rockets zoned up a lot against Cleveland in that game. I think the Rockets probably should be ready to see a lot of zone as we go forward. The, the rebounding though. I don't know what you're going to do if you're the other teams, right? Like they are going to snag so many rebounds and so maybe it works. I don't know. I hate to be a hater about it because I do love offensive rebounding. Hey, speaking of things I hate to be a hater about, how about S S once again has called a surprise team. The Raptors pick up another win. They beat the Sixers, who have been a great story to start the year. The raptors are now 10 and 5 and honestly, like Brandon Ingram, I made fun of, not made fun of, but I questioned the move for Brandon Ingram last year. I still don't necessarily love it, but it has worked out for them. He's been good and especially I've seen more of him on the defensive end and it fits because this group defensively can just cause so much chaos and he gets to fit right in. He had that big block the other night on Kalkbrenner at The rim. The best finisher in the league right now. So yeah. How about the Raptors?

[NBA Analyst 1]

How about those Raptors? I'm loving the fact that they're surprising a lot of folks. Right. Last year it was a write off. Oh, the Raptors are playing. I don't know if I want to tune in this year. It's competitive basketball and I think this was, you could expect this and this is probably why S was like, hold up, y'.

[Capital One Advertiser]

All.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Not too much. My Raptors, like, think about the time that Scotty Barnes and RJ Barrett have taken to get into this position. We've known that these guys were huge, big time players since they started. Scotty Barnes needed some help. They bring in RJ Barrett from New York. Athletic guys. They, they always had competitors on their team. Grady Dick involving in that, in that mix. I mean, even last year, Agbaje, when he was in the mix, there was always like athleticism out there on the floor. It was just they're a little young. They need a little bit more finesse to their game. Bring in Brandon Emgram, one of the best finessers to his offensive game. Getting to his spots, being able to beat his defender, utilizing his lankiness to get past folks. Still not great on the defensive end, but that's okay because he has, he's putting forth effort because what is he surrounded by? All these guys that really try hard for the Raptors. But yeah, in the last five games that they've won in a row, they are top 10 in almost every statistical category. Top 10 offense, top 10 defense. They're grabbing rebounds on both sides of the ball like they, they're just playing phenomenally. One thing, interestingly enough, that they have in common with the Rockets, they're not shooting the three ball great.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Right.

[NBA Analyst 1]

They're still in the bottom three of the league for that regard. But when you're running in fast break the way they. They are in transition and getting those buckets easy and. And then of course, in the half court being allowing BI to go off the way he is. It's okay. It's okay if you don't have that outside shooting.

[Dave DeFore]

S is going to be claiming 50 wins next week. I'm calling it right now.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Also before we get out of here, I'm very curious.

[Dave DeFore]

I think it was at 45, I think is what he did in preseason. Yeah. Before we get out of here, Nicole Vuchovic hits a game winner for the Bulls. They pick up a win over the scrappy Trailblazers and Xena, if you're Keeping track. Okay. They lose in double overtime to the Utah Jazz. That's a tough loss.

[Capital One Advertiser]

But.

[Dave DeFore]

But then they come back the next night, they beat the Denver Nuggets and now the Bulls go and beat the Blazers. Who another good team. You know, we talked about how the west is deeper than, than the East. On the shoot around this morning, Nicola Vuchevich goes off. He hits the game winning three as the, as the buzzer goes off. But I think the star of the show is Kobe White. Since he's been back, he has been excellent. He had another 25 point game off the bench. He was great in that double overtime game obviously the other night. He really completes what they're doing and you can see when, when, when he's out there and Giddy's out there now all of a sudden they got a little bit of thunder and lightning. They can mix things up.

[Capital One Advertiser]

I don't know.

[Dave DeFore]

How about the Bulls?

[NBA Analyst 1]

He literally has didn't take a beat off like he didn't take. I mean he came in the very first game back, 30 minutes played the last night, 27 minutes played, had 27 points in the first game back 25 points in this game, had eight assists. First game back, seven assists. I mean there's like literally was Kobe White out? Did he take, did he, did he need a break? Did he need time to get better? I mean he has come in and immediately fit into what they're doing. And that is the biggest thing when you looked at even this game, Chicago against Portland. Portland did everything they did, could do, tried everything they could try to try and win this game. They outshot Chicago by 11 at halftime. It was by 15. They were all over the boards. They were in fast break. They, I mean in transition, getting fast break points. They were putting up as many shots possible. But the offense for Chicago was so efficient. Like Chicago had 36 assists, 36 their last three games. 38 assists, 31 assists, 36 assists. That's wild ball movement and you're doing that on effective shooting. And that can only happen when your players are taking good quality shots. Kobe White came in there and did not disrupt any of that. Nikola Vucevic, I mean, I don't know how Tamanu Kamara from Portland did not realize that he had relocated on the Kobe White drive at the end of the game. That got him open to hit that shot. One of the best defenders in the league right now. I know he is killing himself that he overhelped on Kobe and left the top scorer tonight or last night wide open for that three. But man, Chicago Bulls, they're doing something and they are all the people that love defense. They're, they're the antonym to that. They're like, no, no, offense wins games. Okay?

[Dave DeFore]

It really, I mean, well, it was championships, I don't know. But defense does win you games. They better figure out how to play some defense. Guys. Stick around after the break. We got Will Guillory here to talk about Zion coming back, Derrick Queen and what happened with Willie Green and the Pelicans.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Hey, Andrew Schlecht here. The NBA on Prime is back this Friday with another great Emirates NBA cup doubleheader. The night starts with Pascal Siakam and the Indiana Pacers meeting Donovan Mitchell and the Cleveland Cavaliers. And then it's down to Texas as Nicole Jokic and the Denver Nuggets get their first look at Kevin Durant and the Houston Rockets. And if you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial and get started today. Remember, it's the Pacers and Cavs, the Nuggets and Rockets. If you are a hoops head at all, you're going to be locked in to Nuggets, Rockets. These are two of the best teams in the Western Conference. Two teams that should be vying for the Western Conference finals. Both fan bases should be disappointed if that's not where they get and we get our first look on prime at this big time matchup. Coverage starts Friday at 6:30 Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

[Aura Frames Advertiser]

Aura frames are an incredible way to stay connected with your family whether you live across town or across the country. And what a perfect holiday gift to give someone to you love. Maybe your family is like mine. We live in one state, my parents, brothers and sisters live in a different state and my wife's family is in a third state. Oftentimes we want to share pictures of my daughter with her grandparents, but don't want to post them to social media and we know they just get lost in text messages. Enter Aura. We can upload pictures and videos directly to the Aura digital frame whenever we want and take them down whenever we want just as easily. With Aura, you get unlimited free photos and video. Just download the app and connect to Wi Fi. You can preload photos before your gift arrives so the frame is ready to go when your loved one opens the box. You can share photos and videos directly from your phone. It's so easy and every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag for a limited time. Visit auraframes.com and get $45 off Aura's bestselling Carver Matte frames named number one by wire cutter by using promo code athletic NBA at checkout. That's auraframes.com promo code athletic MBA. This exclusive black Friday Cyber Monday deal is their best of the year, so order now before it ends. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Hear that? It's holiday cheer arriving at Ulta Beauty with gifts for everyone on your list. Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte Tilbury and Peach and Lily. Go all out with timeless fragrances from ysl, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera. And you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty gift card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here.

[Dave DeFore]

Here at the start of the season. Every time we talk about the Pelicans, it's been bad news. So we waited a couple days to bring Will in after they fired Willie Green. We were hoping for a. For maybe a good game out of the Pelicans. They did put up a fight in the loss to the Nuggets, but Zion's back here to talk about it. Will Guillory, our man. That covers a bunch of teams in the NBA, including the Pelicans. Will, how did Zion look?

[Will Guillory]

Yeah, I mean, I tweeted out before the game. We actually got to watch Zion Williamson play basketball. He put on the uniform. He was out there with Trey Murphy, Derek Queen, and Jeremiah Fears. It's not something we got to see very often. And, you know, you saw certain moments he was going through his bumps, just trying to get his rhythm back, figure out how he fits with his teammates. And, you know, whenever he's on the court, he just gets so much attention. So many bodies thrown at him. He was still getting used to that. But you saw certain flashes with him in particular, him, Queen and Trey Murphy out there working together in certain half course situations when it's like, oh, this might be actually a thing. They. They might be able to do something with this. Now they end up losing about double digits. Well, no, I ended up being single digits at the end. Yeah. So, you know, baby steps with New Orleans. But I think overall it was a decent showing. And I think, you know, obviously Zion being back is the. The headline everybody wants to talk about. But I think the headline coming out of this game was Derek Queen having an unbelievable game and really going at Jokic the way you rarely see a rookie do in this League.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Oh, Derrick Queen makes me so happy. I've been like advocating for all men to go get if they have partners, women that want Queen on the back. It's a smart jersey choice to make. I just love the footwork out of this guy. I mean you look at his size, you look at the way that he feels like he should be a back to the basket type of big, but he can size you up, he could take you to the basket. I mean we saw him score 30 points over 20 points, you know, his average. What is it about Derek Fierce, I mean, Derek fierce, I'm joining the two rookies together. What is it about Derrick Queen that really allows him to set himself apart as someone with the body type he has, but the skill set that he also possesses.

[Will Guillory]

It was interesting watching him in this game because you don't want to compare anybody to Jokic because he's in the universe by himself. But he has a lot of Jokic kind of tendencies to his game. The way he, he loves the face the basket, he can find his teammates, he can kill you in the post or facing up, he can handle the ball, push it in transition. I think he's a very unique big in the way he can kind of do a little bit of everything. Like he's still working on the jump shot, but every other part of this game I think is pretty advanced for a guy his size and he's able to find the gaps in the defenses, take advantage of certain mismatches. And I think just something you heard Joe Dumars talk about on draft night when he traded for him is that they, they love his iq, the way he reads the game, the way he sets his teammates up. There are certain moments where we've heard for some of his veteran teammates and they're like, yeah, Queen is telling us where go and he's saying, look, this spot is open, you need to go there and I'll find you. And that's, that's stuff you don't hear from rookie, especially rookie big men this early in their career. And you see him just coming in with extreme confidence and an understanding of how he can contribute at this level. And I, it was just really impressive multiple times during this game. Just seeing him isolated on Jokic and him saying, I'm going at this dude. He just went directly into Yoko's chest and scored a several times and like he had one move where he just left Jokic in the dust with a little inside out dribble. And I'm like, wow. I mean this kid is 15 games into his career, and he's doing this against the best player in the world. It's really impressive. And I think, you know, it was just so important for this Pelicans team with everything going on around them, whether it be Willie Green, Zion Williamson. I've been saying above all what they needed to go is do go 2 for 2 in the first round of the draft, and that's. It appears that they've done that with Fears and Queen, and I think Queen in particular. The pressure was through the roof for them to hit on that draft pick. And then, you know, early returns on it. He's really good, and he. He's not only really good, but he can make his teammates better, which is a great thing for this team because they need that. Because so much pressure is on Zion on a night to night basis to create for everybody else.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Yeah, the. The 30 point game was much needed, especially he had been in single digits the last few games before that. And it was kind of messing up our love for Derrick Queen and us hyping him up. But he got right back onto it. I loved the other night getting to watch him very up close against the Warriors. I don't know if you saw it Will, but him and Draymond Green at the free throw line talking extended period of time. And it wasn't like chirping. I'm not talking about. They were chirping at each other. He was learning. Like there was an exchange of information. I don't know if he said anything about that, but it was just for me, getting the opportunity to be on the free throw line with one of the best defenders that the game has ever seen, and Derrick Queen taking that opportunity. Meanwhile, we know most of the league would probably look at Draymond, be like, I don't want to hear now you gotta say, right, you're my opponent. We don't want to mess with you. But he was on the line learning from this guy, like taking it in, absorbing it. And I thought that that was really cool to see. And we've seen similar action out of Jeremiah Fierce. Like, they both feel like they're sponges, ready to learn, ready to do whatever it is that New Orleans needs. And it is exactly what New Orleans needs right now, especially as they're trying to look towards the Future.

[Will Guillory]

No, you're 100% right. And we did ask Derek about that moment after the game, and he was like, yeah, you know, Draymond was giving me some advice and telling me, you know, about, you know, a certain situation, what to look for and how to react and stuff like that. I don't know if he told him anything about, you know, how to have a conversation with the fan when they refer to you as a NBA player, but that's a. That's a conversation for another day. But no, I think you're exactly right. And, you know, I think that stuff stands out because Draymond doesn't like, you know, kind of put his hand on God's shoulders that often. Right. It kind of shows a level of respect for Gary Queen and say, hey, I wanna. I wanna speak to this guy because I kind of see something in him and I want to give him advice because I can see the potential of what he can be. And, you know, that means a lot for a young kid speaking to a four time champion. And like you said, Draymond isn't the most cuddly guy. So for him to kind of have that moment where he wants to talk to you, it had to mean a lot. And I think, you know, with. With Derrick Queen, I think he's definitely mentioned, like, Draymond's one of the guys that he wants to pattern his game after. Jokic is obviously the peak of that, but he wants to be a guy who can face the basket, who can impact the game with his passing. And Draymond is a supreme example of that. Where you mentioned, you know, Derek scoring in single digits a few times the past couple games. Draymond always scores in single digits and he impacts the game regardless. So. So I think, you know, that isn't really important for Queen to have these matchups against some of these great guys and learn from them and see how they impact the game with whether they're scoring or not, whether they're scoring 30 or not, whether they're getting 10 rebounds or not. I think he's learning different ways to impact the game. And now finally he gets to actually be out there with the real team almost. You know, they still don't have Jordan Pool and Dejante Murray, but he. This first game, I was so intrigued watching them go run three man action with Zion Queen and Trey Murphy and just creating shots with that, with all three of those guys handling the ball, all three of them setting screens. And I think it's going to be really interesting to see how James Borrego can kind of get the most out of that alignment and use the versatility that those guys bring and create some, you know, some interesting offensive sets where it felt like, you know, this team was so stagnant throughout the course of the season. And they were so dependent on these rookies to create shots. Now that you have Z back out there, it feels like things are a little more balanced and. And, you know, now these guys are taken from their experience they had without Z and building on it, which I think is. Is exciting for the franchise.

[Dave DeFore]

That was the most important game of the season for them by far. You know, I'm just having as many of their guys out there as they did. I want to talk a little bit about Willie Green. Obviously, he's fired by the Pelicans a couple days ago. James Borrego is the interim head coach. It's probably why they didn't let James Borrego interview for other jobs over the summer, because they kind of felt like this was coming. And, you know, Will, we talked about this a little bit. Like, you and I were texting, you know, in the lead up to this, and I was asking you, hey, you know, why did they wait so long? Why'd they wait so long? These two rookies in particular, to me, are one of the reasons why this was egregious and dragging it out into the season. It doesn't waste their rookie year, but it certainly throws a roadblock in it. And just having this swirling mess around your basketball team while you've got these two guys who are going to be super important to your franchise in one way or the other, whether they're trade assets down the line or whether these are franchise players or not, it is really like, it was an unprofessional way to. To handle all of this, right down to not introducing Willie Green with the starting lineups in his final games as the head coach. So I just want to ask you, like, your opinion of this whole thing. You know, unleash the. The notebook, like, empty all the notes on it. Like, how did we wind up with what. With what happened?

[Will Guillory]

Oh, man, like you said, I think it's. It's really a. A bad look for every level of the franchise when you go ownership allowing this thing to drag out as long as it has. Like you said, I mean, you know, it's been reported by several people. I put it in my last story that David Griffin wanted to fire Willie Green on two different occasions last season and was turned down by ownership, was told, no, you can't do that. And, you know, once that stuff happens, it's not exactly a big secret, right? That stuff eventually gets out. People start talking about it, the players hear about it, and, you guys know, once the players kind of see Dead Man Walking written on the coach's forehead, then your authority in the locker room is gone. It's non existent. And then when you start adding on the fact that they're losing all of these games, they're getting blown out, he doesn't have any of his guys available, it made it even worse. It got to the point where, you know, frankly, the entire locker room was kind of just done with Willie. They didn't want to hear anything he had to say. You know, his. Like I said, there was no authority in his voice and what he was trying to do. You saw, you know, in those first couple games in the season, they were frankly just, just kind of out there, just going through the motions, you know, getting stomped out by some of these teams. You know, Grayson Allen goes out and drops 40 on them. Just, just zero effort, zero accountability amongst them. And I think, you know, some of that falls on Willie and his, you know, inability to kind of get that out of those guys, kind of figure it out, you know, find a way to get through to his team. And I think, you know, it certainly falls on the players as well. We can't excuse them and the lack of effort that they play with and their unwillingness to kind of just kind of show up on certain nights. Like the basic thing you should do as an NBA player is show up and play and play together and, and communicate. I mean, and it was just non existent. And earlier in the season and I think a big part of it was just. Everybody was just kind of waiting to see when it was going to happen. Why it hasn't happened yet. I can tell you. Particular after that Oklahoma City game where they went down to 06 and they got. I don't know if it was 30, 40, 50 they lost by. Yeah, OKC. But that next Monday morning, my phone was unlike it it's ever looked before. As far as people texting me, calling me, wondering why hasn't it happened yet? The Pelicans are practicing. Willie's here. Why is Willie here? What's going on? So it was kind of permeating throughout the entire organization. People just waiting for the day for it to come down. And if you're Willie Green, I can, I can only imagine what it's like every day hearing this from everybody and hearing the boos, hearing the chants at games, knowing that any day it can finally come. So I, I think you're exactly right that they is. It was, it was malpractice by everybody involved to allow it to get to this point. Not just because it makes the organization look bad, but you set These young guys back and you and wanted to build around these guys and you want to build them up and kind of show that, hey, this is our future. We got a, you know, shaky pass with Zion and Bi and the failure of that thing coming together, but at least we have these new young guys. But now they're starting from scratch, 15 games in with a new coach. He's trying to bring in a new system, new voice, new rotations, and you're doing that during a week when you're playing the warriors, the Thunder, the Nuggets, you know, the, the tougher stretch in your schedule and they have zero practice time while all of this is going on. It's. I think it's really unfortunate and it's a bad look, like I said, for every level of organization, ownership for allowing it to happen. Willie's inability to figure out and the players basically just not caring to start the season and now they're trying to get it back together. Z's healthy. I think Bo is a good coach and I think he's going to figure some stuff out with this group. But they're behind the eightball because everybody else is doing. Everybody else is like 10 steps ahead of them because they're starting from scratch now, 15 games in. And it's unfortunate because not only all of this is hanging over them, but the fact that they don't have their first round pick. So that's it. I got a whole lot of Pelicans followers, but I can tell you on a daily basis my Atlanta Hawk follower base is growing because they seem to retweet every time I tweet out a Pelican's loss because they're loving life over there in the a right now.

[Dave DeFore]

2 and 13 is rough, man.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Yeah, it is rough. And you know, I'm really happy you guys brought that up because more than anything of the, you know, unprofessionalism around the way that it was handled and I've already said my case, I feel bad for Willie and how all this played out, but I do feel bad for the Rookies and that there's. There was an example set of you don't have to listen to the coach, you know, you don't have to have this energy, this effort that you're paid to do. I have always, always hated the notion that just because you don't believe in a coach or a coach can't galvanize you, that that's enough to justify or warrant you not getting 50, 50 balls, you not going to the glass, you not Rebounding, you not being able to, you know, play one on one defense, I, I've just always felt very icky about that. And I hate that being an example being set for any rookie out there in the NBA. But that being said, they do need a coach that can get them riled up, that can get them going, that can get them and put them in order to. And of course we're talking about Borrego being a good coach, but is he going to be the end all be all for the Pelicans?

[Will Guillory]

I think the fortunate thing for JB is he's got a 70 game Runway to show what he can do with this group, how he can get the most out of these rookies. He's already showing some creativity, like I said, with the way he's using some of his best players. You know, he's a very eloquent guy. In some of these press conferences, I think they want somebody who can kind of speak up for the franchise when everybody's out there killing them and saying how terrible they are and how they don't know what they're doing. Have somebody who can get in front of cameras and speak up what they're doing positively and how they're trying to move in the right direction. And Willie, you know, Willie's a good guy, but he's not exactly a person who really enjoyed the media side of things when it came to being a coach. And JB is a guy who, I can tell you when JB was an assistant, JB would just run up to me and we just talk about whatever. He's just a guy who just loves to talk. You know, we've been messing with PR that we need to cut down some of these James Borrego press conferences because they're rolling in like 15, 18 minutes and we're like, all right, like, come on now, we got to get to the locker room. Jb, he spent all that time with.

[Dave DeFore]

Pop and none of that rubbed off on him, you know, like.

[Will Guillory]

In the JB press conference. But no, I think he's going to have a great opportunity to, to really show what he can do with this group. But, you know, as we've kind of seen, you know, dating back to the summer, this Joe Dumars, Troy Weaver front office, they, they're, they're a wild card. They might pull anything out the hat. So who knows where they're going to decide to go. I mean, we've already started hearing some names. I've already started hearing some names. I think, you know, Darvin Ham is An interesting one. I think Kevin Ali is a. One that Troy Weaver has had his eye on for a long time now. I think he's an interesting name that'll be in the mix. I think Taylor Jenkins is another guy who might be in the mix. But I think, you know, I've always, I've likened this situation, you know, to, to what happened with the New Orleans Saints last year. And I'm a die hard New Orleans Saints fan. For the people who don't know where they kind of went into coaching search last year and they had all of these names that they wanted to go get and then every single one of those guys was like, ah, I'm good. Actually looking at your roster and looking at your situation. So I wonder how much of that is about to happen with the Pelicans where I see a lot of fans saying, hey, we want Michael Malone.

[Dave DeFore]

I was gonna say, not to be disrespectful, but they're gonna be picking from the bottom of. Right. Like exactly. Rehash coach. Maybe like, like Darvin Ham who got, you know, like we could say that was a rough, that was a rough job that he, that he took over with the Lakers, right? Like that wasn't easy. It's gonna be like Darvin Ham, it's gonna be first time coach, you know, maybe a long term assistant. I, I think like, like you said, James Borrego is probably in pole position, right? He's in house already. They blocked him from interviewing for other jobs, which probably means that they had eyed him for this job anyway. And he's got 70 games to figure out if he can create some sort of an identity and, and maybe instill like a sense of, I don't know, team around the team. Do you know what I mean? Instead of a bunch of individuals. Like it does seem like remembering that there is a team name on the front of the jersey might help these guys along a little bit too. Will look forward to everything that you gonna have coming out this year. The Rockets are really good. We, you know, Xena just kind of hating on their offense, like doesn't really believe it.

[Will Guillory]

Oh really?

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, yeah.

[NBA Analyst 1]

I'm not. Hey, I'm just questioning. I got some questions about it.

[Dave DeFore]

That's awesome. That's what haters say all the time. I'm just asking questions. I'm just asking questions. Anyway, thank you to Will Killary, Warriors.

[Will Guillory]

Beautiful game in Houston right now.

[Dave DeFore]

That's it.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Let's just be real. Have they seen it themselves? Consistently?

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Not yet.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Ask those questions.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. Thank you. To Will Gillard for joining us. Thank you to Zena K. As always. I'm Dave DeFore and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. Ready to order?

[Will Guillory]

Yes.

[Capital One Advertiser]

We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver Card. So let's just get one of everything. Everything.

[Dave DeFore]

Fire everything.

[Will Guillory]

The Capital One Saver card is at.

[Dave DeFore]

Table 27 and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.

[NBA Analyst 1]

Yes, Chef.

[Capital One Advertiser]

This is so nice.

[Dave DeFore]

Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Ooh, tiramisu.

[Dave DeFore]

Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One Saver Card. Capital One what's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com for details.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Hey, it's Maya and Sim from the Girls that Invest Podcast. If you are an IT or security pro, you know managing devices, identities and applications can feel overwhelming and honestly risky. That's where Trica by1Password comes in. It helps conquer SaaS, Sprawl and Shadow it by discovering every app your team uses, managed or not. With pre built app profiles, you can assess risk, manage access, and even optimize your software spend. Plus, IT simplifies onboarding, offboarding and compliance, all while cutting costs by eliminating unused licenses. Take the first step to better security for your team. Learn [e-mail] special offer hear that it's holiday cheer arriving at Ulta Beauty with gifts for everyone on your list. Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte Tilbury and Peach and Lily. Go all out with timeless fragrances from ysl, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera and you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty gift card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here.