Have the Wolves solved the Thunder? + Giannis trade ideas

Summary

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The Athletic NBA Daily — January 30, 2026

Have the Wolves Solved the Thunder? + Giannis Trade Ideas

Hosts: Dave DuFour (B), Esfandiar “Es” Baraheni (C)
Special Guest: Eric Nehm (A)
Main Segments:

1. Timberwolves' win over the Thunder and broader NBA game checks
2. In-depth discussion with Eric Nehm about Giannis Antetokounmpo’s future and trade scenarios

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Episode Overview

This episode kicks off with a fast-paced recap of a loaded NBA slate, focusing on the Minnesota Timberwolves’ commanding win over the Oklahoma City Thunder and what it says about both teams. The main segment features a comprehensive conversation with Bucks beat writer Eric Nehm, unpacking years of Giannis Antetokounmpo trade rumors, the Bucks’ journey, and current realistic trade scenarios given Milwaukee’s situation.

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1. Have the Wolves Solved the Thunder?

[01:27–05:15]

Key Points

• Minnesota Timberwolves defeated Oklahoma City Thunder 123–111 in a game that didn’t feel as close as the score.
• Wolves "own this matchup right now" due to their physicality and engagement (B, [02:37]).
• Thunder lacking energy, likely impacted by injuries and missing key players like AJ Mitchell and Jalen Williams (C, [03:17]).
• Both discuss OKC’s “math problem”: not taking or making enough three-pointers compared to opponents like Minnesota (C, [04:06]).
  • T-Wolves attempted 47 threes (made twice as many as OKC’s 31 attempts).
  • Broader trend: good teams (including the Rockets, Raptors, Magic, Pistons) are struggling with three-point volume.

Notable Quotes

• "It's rare that you watch a Thunder game and you feel like, wow, is everyone healthy? Like, is there a flu going around this team?" – Dave DuFour ([02:50])
• "There's a math problem in the NBA." – Es Baraheni ([03:31])
• "You have to take them to make them." – Dave DuFour ([04:51])

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2. Game Highlights and Player Performances

[05:15–10:33]

Sixers vs. Kings

• Sixers squeezed out a 113-111 win over the Kings, needing a Tyrese Maxey game-winner despite Joel Embiid’s 37 points (B, [05:31]).
• Embiid: five 30+ point games in six appearances. Played 35 minutes—a positive sign for his health.

Notable Quote

• "On the game winner, it was an action between Joel and Maxey... we've seen those two dominate all season like that." – Es Baraheni ([06:25])

Suns vs. Pistons

• Dylan Brooks exploded for 40 points in a blowout win for Phoenix over a healthy Detroit team (B, [06:34]; C, [06:58]).
• Suns succeed without Devin Booker; Brooks steps up in his absence.

Notable Quote

• "If you want to win, get Dylan Brooks on your team." – Es Baraheni ([07:46])

Hornets vs. [Opponent not named, but game features Con Knueppel and Cooper Flagg]

• Hornets (now 21-28) defeat another young team in dramatic fashion.
• Rookie Con Knueppel: career-high 34 points, 8-of-12 from three, hit game-winning free throws.
• Cooper Flagg, teenager, scored 49 (most ever by an NBA teenager), but his late turnover led to Hornets’ win (C, [08:44]).

Notable Quotes

• "Teenagers with multiple 40-point games: LeBron James, Anthony Edwards, and now Cooper Flagg." – Es Baraheni ([09:16])
• "49 is the most by any teenager. Ever in NBA history." – Dave DuFour ([09:26])

Rookie of the Year Debate

• Flagg’s workload as a rookie more challenging than Knueppel’s due to less team support (C, [10:17]).
• "Brandon Miller and Lamelo Ball, they attract a lot of attention. Makes your life a little bit easier." – Dave DuFour ([10:33])

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3. Giannis Trade: Deja Vu and the State of the Bucks

[12:46–32:25]

The Never-Ending Giannis Watch

• Eric Nehm joins to revisit the annual tradition of speculating on Giannis’ future, dating back to 2015 (A, [13:09]).
• Eight years of speculation, always circling the extension decision. Now, new pressure as Bucks stumble and the possibility of actually trading Giannis becomes real for the first time (A, [14:39]).

Notable Quotes

• "This is the closest we’ve ever gotten, right?" – Es Baraheni ([14:36])
• "The Bucks just don’t listen. If you call about Giannis... make [your offer] even bigger and we’re still going to say no." – Eric Nehm ([14:53])
• "It’s not that he hasn’t won one yet. It’s that he wants more." – Eric Nehm ([17:25])

Why the Situation Has Changed

• Bucks have had nearly a decade of title contention, but recent seasons are marked by injuries and earlier playoff exits (A, [15:38]).
• 2020 was the last time it felt truly precarious, but now the Bucks' struggles align with Giannis’ extension window (A, [14:39]).
• Giannis’ legacy and hunger for all-time greatness loom over every decision.

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4. Should the Bucks Trade Giannis Now?

[18:32–27:57]

Logic vs. Reality

• There’s logic in waiting until the offseason—more bidders, less salary cap restriction, picks clarity (A, [24:14]).
• Several franchises (Miami, New York) linked for years aren’t actually prepared with assets: "How did you fail? Why don't you have a plan?" – Eric Nehm ([25:28])
• Milwaukee has acquired (or soon could acquire) some valuable picks, either via luck or lottery jumping, potentially giving them a better rebuild foundation if they delay a trade (A, [19:05]).

Teams in Play

• Logical favorites (Oklahoma City, Houston, San Antonio) are not necessarily incentivized to push now—would wait for summer.
• Some teams actually in best position asset-wise (e.g. Hawks) aren’t interested in fast-tracking their rebuild (A, [33:06]).
• Golden State: picks would be "in the 20s" for years—not actually valuable for a true rebuild (A, [36:15]).
• Miami/NYK: no formidable trade packages. "Spent hours on each, trying to find a way...it's really difficult" (A, [35:56]).
• Wolves, Blazers mentioned as creative possibilities; Blazers in particular might be pivotal as pick-reroute partners.

On the "Dark Horse" Scenario

• Unlikely a non-contending team makes a temporary play, but a GM might gamble on two playoff runs plus the hope they could convince Giannis to stay (A, [28:30]).
• "With Giannis... that dude is going to play hard every single night for whatever team he’s on." – Eric Nehm ([29:21])

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5. The Big Picture and Legacy

[27:57–39:09]

• The Bucks went all-in for years; although it isn’t working now, they did “everything in their power to keep this guy happy and in contention." – Eric Nehm ([22:34])
• No organization regrets keeping Giannis as long as possible; his desire for more, not lack of success, drives any change.
• Odds are a trade won't happen by the upcoming deadline due to logic, but "you never know" in the NBA crucible (A, [39:01]).

Notable Quotes

• "Logic dictates we shouldn't see something before the deadline, but you never know what can happen." – Eric Nehm ([39:09])
• "We’re going to be making fake Giannis trades every spring for another seven years." – Dave DuFour ([39:35])

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Key Timestamps & Segments

• 01:27: Episode start, T-Wolves/Thunder focus
• 03:35: Three-point “math problem” for OKC and other teams
• 05:31: Sixers-Kings, Maxey game-winner
• 06:34: Dylan Brooks’ surprise 40 for Suns
• 08:17: Hornets’ rookie Knueppel’s breakout; Cooper Flagg’s record-setting game
• 12:46: Eric Nehm joins, Giannis trade segment starts
• 14:39: Why this feels like the closest the Bucks have been to a Giannis trade
• 19:05: Can Bucks patch things up or is Giannis definitely gone?
• 24:14: Why logic says to wait for offseason; who actually has trade assets?
• 32:03: Who actually has the best Giannis package? The real list
• 35:56: The trouble with finding real (especially Heat or Knicks) packages

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Memorable Quotes

• "It's rare that you watch a Thunder game and you feel like, wow, is everyone healthy? Like, is there a flu going around this team?" – Dave DuFour ([02:50])
• "There's a math problem in the NBA." – Es Baraheni ([03:31])
• "It’s not that he hasn’t won one yet. It’s that he wants more." – Eric Nehm ([17:25])
• "How did you fail? Why don't you have a plan?" – Eric Nehm, on Heat/Knicks’ lack of preparation ([25:28])
• "We’re going to be making fake Giannis trades every spring for another seven years." – Dave DuFour ([39:35])
• "Logic dictates we shouldn't see something before the deadline, but you never know what can happen." – Eric Nehm ([39:09])

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Summary

This episode expertly balances game recaps and big-picture NBA talk. The discussion opens with tactical, smart analysis of the Wolves’ stranglehold over the Thunder via three-point dominance and defense, with shoutouts to breakout performances across the league (Maxey, Embiid, Brooks, Flagg, and Knueppel). The centerpiece, Eric Nehm’s segment, delves deeper into Bucks/ Giannis than ever before—unpacking Milwaukee’s decade-long gamble, why this truly is a breaking point for the Giannis era, which teams could realistically make a move, and why most rumored destinations simply aren’t set up to trade for him. But as always in the NBA, the experts close by acknowledging that logic only goes so far: "you never know" what might happen next.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily presented by Amazon prime for January 30, 2026. I'm Dave Defor here with Espera headache. Coming up, a crazy night in the NBA. The Wolves pick up a big win over the Thunder. We're going to hit that and then we go super deep with Eric Naim on Giannis, his time covering Giannis in Milwaukee and potential trade destination. Good morning, everybody. What's up, S? How's it going, man?

[C]

I'm doing well. Look, I know we, we love to do a little bit of small talk. We don't got time for that right now.

[B]

We have no time because we legitimately have 27 minutes of Eric name on the other side of the break. Because I love Eric so much.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And we just went really hard on just his time covering. Yeah. I mean this might be the last time that he and I get to talk about potentially Giannis leaving the Bucks.

[C]

How many times a little said this might be the last time.

[B]

I honestly, we've done this for eight years now.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Together here at the Athletic. It's kind of amazing. A little bit bittersweet, but it was fun. So I hope you guys enjoy that after the break. But ludicrous display by the Minnesota Timberwolves.

[C]

Ludicrous display.

[B]

Yeah. In the big win over, over the Thunder. Look, it feels like the Wolves kind of own this matchup right now. 123, 111. They get to win. The score doesn't actually indicate how far apart this game felt. The Wolves just dominated from the start. They felt more physical, they felt more engaged. I mean, it's rare that you watch a Thunder game and you feel like, wow, is everyone healthy? Like, is there like a flu going around this team? They, they really just were not lackadaisical, but they lacked the usual energy that they have.

[C]

Yeah. And look, I, I, I keep saying this every time we talk about the Thunder recently. Injuries matter for this team.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

They don't just get to chalk it up because they're one of the most deep rosters in the NBA. Like missing A.J. mitchell, losing Jalen Williams right now, all of that really hurts their bottom line. So that's, I don't want to take anything away from that, but I will say it again. There's a math problem in the NBA.

[B]

And bunch of teams just are not getting up enough threes. And the Thunder are one of them. Look, yeah, last year they win this title and a lot of their offense comes off turnovers. And we saw that sustainability be questioned during their playoff run, especially in the finals against the Pacers, who did such a good job of cutting that off. But the same problems were here last year. The lack of shooting, like, who's the big threat from outside? You know, I mean, it's Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins is about it.

[C]

Yeah. And look, Shea's gotten better as a three point shooter, especially as a pull up three point shooter. But Lou Dort is inconsistent on that. And Chet can kind of be hot and cold in moments too. And even just pure volume is an issue for this team. They took 31 threes tonight. Minnesota took 47 threes. Minnesota made twice as many threes as, as OKC made tonight. It's just a volume issue as much as it is actually knocking down your shots. And by, like, if you've been listening this entire week, we've brought this up when it comes to the Rockets. We've brought this up when it comes to the Raptors. It applies to the Magic, it applies to the Pistons. There are a lot of really good teams right now dealing with a three point volume issue. OKC isn't immune to that either.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's a make or miss league, but you have to take them to make them. And at some point that does become a big problem. And by the way, tip the cab to the Timberwolves, because again, they showed up big time. That defense is so real.

[C]

I would love for them to keep the black jerseys for forever. Always just the Timberwolves. The Timber.

[B]

I don't know, man. I kind of like the blue ones that. The icy ones aren't too bad.

[C]

The Prince versions of the jerseys are cool.

[B]

I agree. Yeah, they have great colors. They got a lot, a lot working for them up there in Minneapolis. All right, we gotta. What's the. What was the best stat line of the night outside of Minnesota and Oklahoma City? Man, we had so many crazy games.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Let's just start with. Let's start at the beginning. The Sixers win 113, 111 over the Kings. Now, they should not have had this close of a game against the Kings. Especially when you go and look at the box score and you're like, hold on. Joel Embiid had 37 points and they needed a game winner from Tyrese Maxey to put away the Kings. Tyrese Maxey had 40 points. The Sixers get the win. But I don't know. I'm sketchy on this one.

[C]

Sure. I mean, you could argue it that way. I'll argue it the other way. I think it's impressive that Joel Embiid is stacking together multiple 30 plus point games. This is now his fifth game in six times. I guess that he's had 30 plus points, five out of six. I don't know why I described that so poorly. But anyways, five out of his six games, 30 plus points for Joel Embiid. Also, the minutes are up. He played 35 minutes tonight. I think that's the big win there. And also on the game winner, it was an action between Joel and Maxi. A little pitch back action. Like we've seen those two dominate all season like that.

[B]

I mean, this is why we're high on them for the playoffs. Yeah. Sneaky team.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. The most unlikely 40 point game where. Let's go to Dylan Brooks. Dylan brooks, yeah. Had 40 points in a blowout win over the Detroit Pistons for the Phoenix Suns. I mean, look, I, I don't know what's more surprising, that the Suns blew out the Pistons without Devin Booker or Dylan brooks going for 40. I, I'm, I don't know. Both are equally shocking.

[C]

This is a fully healthy Pistons team too. They weren't missing anybody here.

[B]

But the Suns are good and like we keep saying, like they would have been the 2 seed maybe in the east and, and you're Going to get punched, especially on the road sometimes. Yeah, I'm not going to, I'm not going to knock the Pistons for, you know, losing to a pretty decent team. But I don't know how you give up 40 to Dylan Brooks.

[C]

Well, no, look, if you remember Memphis Dillon Brooks, he was liable to go off every now and then if he wanted to. And when his number is called, especially when Devin Booker isn't in the lineup. I mean, he took 22 shots tonight and the shots fall sometimes for you if you're Dylan Brooks, I will say this kind of adds to our point about how important he is to this team and now this franchise elevating them to a, you know, top seven seed.

[B]

He's been important to every team he's been on.

[C]

Yeah. If you want to win, get Dylan Brooks on your team.

[B]

That's right. The Suns just absolutely cannot trade them, but teams should maybe be trying to trade for Dylan Brooks if they can. And okay, we had a battle between two fun young teams, but our Hornets pulled it off. Hornets are now 21 and 28 on the season. Are they going to make it to 500? Man, like they're just, they're on this roll. This offense is kind of coming around. They, they've got, you know, they still play in the east, which means they play a lot of soft teams.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And like when you look at this lineup that they're rolling out there with Miles Bridges, Musa Diabate, Brandon Miller, Lamelo Ball and Khan Canipple, they are just rolling. Con had a career high. Obviously he's a rookie. 34 points, 8 of 12 from three and he completely, you know, this win kind of outshines Cooper Flag putting up a 49 point game.

[C]

I don't know if it could outshine a 49 point game. I think it does.

[B]

Listen, I. You got to get the win. Con Caniple hits the game winning free throws, drawing the foul on the, on.

[C]

The layup off of the Cooper Flag turnover too. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, look, I agree, but can I just. Off the 49 points that Cooper Flag had, which by the way, he tied the game right before the turnover that we talked about with a pull up three. He's been really, really great in the clutch. It's just that turnover doesn't really help our case here. Just a quick stat for you teenagers with multiple 40 point games. It is LeBron James with three, Anthony Edwards with two. And now Cooper Flag joins that illustrious list with two 40 point games we saw.

[B]

49 is the most by any teenager. Ever in NBA history. Wow.

[C]

That. I mean, look, if you, if you don't know that Cooper flag is all time, you know, like franchise level, you know, generational, if you want to call it. Whatever. He's definitely making a case for himself. Very.

[B]

Absolutely. Where would he go in this year's draft if he. If he didn't reclassify and go a year?

[C]

I've seen people say like four or five, but I just, I don't believe that. I don't.

[B]

After watching him, I. I'm. I'm higher on him than. Than what I was from hearing the buzz about him on the way in. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I mean, to play at this level as a rookie, I mean, con canopy, you can kind of say the same thing. But, but with Coop, obviously, it's a little bit of a harder job, I would say just the role that he's playing on that team. Yeah. Guy's been impressive, but gets the win.

[C]

I agree. Khan gets the win. Hornets playing much better basketball right now and they will make the plan. To the Cooper point, though I think his role on this team, if we're doing the whole rookie of the year debate here, his role is much more difficult than what Colin Caniple is working with right now.

[B]

Absolutely. Brandon Miller and Lamelo Ball, they attract a lot of attention. Yeah. Makes your life a little bit easier. But anyway. All right, guys. Making our life easier. Eric Naim after the break.

[A]

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[B]

Well, it's that time of year again. We are trading Giannis to somewhere that's not Milwaukee. Here to do it with us, our guy, Eric Naim. Eric, we've been doing this since we got to the athletic together. 2018 for you. I came in 2019, and probably the first podcast we ever did together, it was, where's Giannis going this summer?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's been a long, long time of. Of trade rumors. And does he want to stay? Does he want to commit to the future? All of. Yeah, like you said, I mean, I've been back in Milwaukee covering the Bucks since 2015, been at the Athletic since 2018, and as I just tell you guys, off air, like, after my first season on the beat, the Milwaukee Bucks go to the Eastern Conference finals, lose to the Toronto Raptors, and we end that season with, you know, a story from Malika Andrews at ESPN about Giannis considering his future and where he wants to be and whether or not that is Milwaukee and what he wants to do. So that was. That was eight years ago, and we're still doing it, but we will see where this one goes.

[C]

Man, it feels like it was only yesterday that you were asking Giannis if this season was a failure or not, and that. That ended up being a whole thing on itself, too.

[A]

And it's just.

[C]

I. It's. It's kind of crazy to recollect all of the mom. That have happened throughout this journey. I'm assuming for yourself, and obviously for everybody who's covered the Bucks over the last, you know, decade or so, when you think of how close we've gotten to Giannis potentially getting moved, you know, if you want to call it the Doomsday Clock or whatever, this is the closest we've ever gotten, right?

[A]

Yeah, I think so. I'm trying to think back over the years. Most of the time, it's always been about whether or not I'll sign an extension. Right. And we're not to that point yet, as you know, I'm sure all of our listeners have read or heard Giannis is eligible for his next extension on October 1st. So we'll see what team he's playing on, who he's thinking about signing it, how many years he's thinking about signing it for, when that comes around. But most of the time it's whether or not he's going to sign that. It's not, you know, are the Bucks going to trade him? Because in the past, the Bucks just don't listen. Like, if you call about Giannis, we don't really care. Right. Great. Thanks for calling. Whatever your offer is, multiply it by infinity. I don't even know, like, whatever you got, make it even bigger and we're still going to say no. So just know that that is where, like, the baseline is in. In any Gianna's trade, but we're not even going to talk about it. So. No. And. And this time it's different because the Bucks have gotten to a spot where this is really the first year, man. This is the first year Giannis has struggled in this way, or the Bucks have struggled with the eyes on the team in this way since 15, 16, if I remember correctly. I think that's the last time they missed the playoffs. So it's been 10 years since. Since we've been through something like this. And because of that, because of, you know, first round exits year over year here, not being able to get out, and there are reasons for those. There's a lot of injuries both to Giannis and to the other stars on the team since they won that championship in 2021. But, yeah, to me, I think 2020 is the one that might stick out to me the most about. I. I really did think we were on the edge there of whether or not he wanted to sign a supermax extension and stay in Milwaukee and kind of re up because they hadn't won a championship yet. Right? Like that. That was the year before they. They win a championship and, you know, it's the middle of COVID and it's. It's kind of everything. It's just a lot of stuff that isn't going the way that everyone in the world was hoping it was going to go. And then Yana signed and they win a championship the next year and, yeah, it's kind of crazy. I think one thing I always try to emphasize in these conversations is I don't really want to hear any comparisons to Kevin Durant, Kevin Garnett, you know, pick whoever you want about who's asking for a trade or who deserves to be traded because they haven't won anything because Giannis has a championship ring. He's held the Larry o' Brien trophy. I've seen it. He's held the Bill Russell MVP trophy. He's done those things. And that I think is always where things can get a little sideways when we're talking about Giannis, because it's not that he hasn't won one yet, it's that he wants more, that he wants to keep adding to his legacy, to be in the conversation with all time greats. I think that's a conversation he's going in no matter what. He was already on the top 75 team, I think in our athletic rankings of the 75 greatest players of all time. I think we had him at 22. I would guess he'd be even higher than that at this point if we would do those rankings again today for sure. And yeah, he is an all timer. Through 13 seasons, he has done enough. His resume says he is an all timer. And now it's just how do you fill out the rest of that resume?

[B]

Well, that's, to me why. I think that if you're the Bucks, the excuse is like why you haven't traded him yet or whatever is because, like, how do you let this guy go? And if they don't trade him right now and they're holding out just for a better package or maybe holding out to reconcile? I mean, is this a relationship issue or is it purely competitive basketball issue? Like can could they possibly drag this out to the summer, sell him on some changes and Giannis is there to start the season next year?

[A]

I mean, it seems unlikely at this point. It just has. This was a really rough season. I have not. And I do feel bad for Giannis because as the best player, you always have to answer for the team's struggles. Like that's a part of being a player or being a superstar player. And when they weren't winning games and when they were struggling, he was the one that had to answer the game, the post game questions. And sure, you know, we talked to a guy like Ryan Rollins or Miles Turner, Kyle Kuzma or Bobby Portis. But like, that isn't the same. It's Giannis. And yeah, and there was just so many moments this year where you could tell, like he just hasn't had a play with young point guards. He hasn't had a play with a bunch of young guys. He hasn't had to have a roster that, you know, there were times when they had injuries and that occurred. But, like, for the most part, he's never had a play with like an undermanned team, a team that doesn't match up as well, you know, as. As they should. And I think it was a lot, especially in, you know, year 13, is he was struggling with injuries as well. You know, I think he's going to. I think we're at 16 games that he will have missed by the time he's done with this current capturing. I think he'll probably have missed half the team's games. Like whenever it is that he comes back, like, that's really hard. The, the whole, the whole thing this year was this is an underman team built around Giannis. Giannis is going to go for his third mvp. He's going to try to win the Jokic mvp, where Jamal Murray was out and Aaron Gordon was out and all these guys were out and Jokic dragged them to whatever it was, the sixth seed or whatever it was that year. Yeah, that was, that was the plan. That was the plan to get through this season because of Damon Lillard's Achilles injury. And it just didn't work out. Gian wasn't able to stay healthy and, and they just struggled in a way that put him in a, in a really difficult spot. And why I say it's unlikely instead of impossible is with the current lottery rules and the current lottery odds, you don't really know how high a team can jump up. You don't totally understand exactly how this could all go. And this a year where the Bucks don't have a whole lot of picks, but this year they are in a pick swap and they have a first round pick. And they're very lucky because the team that they're swapping with is the New Orleans Pelicans. And the New Orleans Pelicans are currently second in the last Bucks. So if in some world, all of a sudden the Bucks jump up to number one, all of a sudden the Hawks are going to take that pick from the Pelicans because the Pelicans traded away last offseason and the Bucks are going to have the number two pick or the number three pick or whatever it might be, and all of a sudden you're in this world where you now have the Bucks. If they get to this offseason without trading us, they would have three first round picks, including a top five pick. And I understand that people are screaming from the outside. John Horse, please stop. Mortgage in your future. How many more mortgages can you take it? I Go. How is this possible? How many loans do you have? You got to stop at some point. But I think one of the, I think to your point, Dave, one of the endearing qualities of this Bucks team is that there is no doubt whether or not it worked. And to be clear, it's not working this year. It didn't end up working with Damian Lillard. They've had a bunch of injuries. They couldn't find the chemistry, all those things. It didn't work. You can't argue that they didn't do everything in their power to keep this guy happy and to keep him in contention. And I know it didn't work in those seven years, but for seven straight years, the Milwaukee Bucks were in the title contending conversation. That's in the, in this modern era with the new cba. And how hard that is to do it seven years consecutively is damn near unheard of.

[B]

For, for however it worked out, the Damian Lillard trade was, I mean, felt impossible to pull off.

[C]

Well, it was also like sound reasoning when it happened. Single person, including us, probably was like, well, this is now a championship contender.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And I, I think ultimately you think about the, the way that they were be. They were able to stay creative. Right. Even the Miles Turner situation, despite it being like you said, like refinancing a house consistently, it was very creative to pull that off. That was something that just didn't seem possible to most people and yet they found ways to do it. To your point about whether it happens at the deadline or whether they end up pushing this to the summer, what do you, what do you think is the possibility there? What's the likelihood of him getting traded in the next week or so versus him getting traded in the summer?

[A]

Oh, so I struggle in these situations because I have a very logical mind. I'm a logical thinker. Logic dictates that you are going to get less for a player in season under the current salary cap. Constrictions.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the, in the modern CBA era, everyone is up against an apron, attacks, whatever. So this team can't take on this money. You're in the middle of the season, so you have to have 15 players on every roster. You know, I would say some of the teams that are interested, you know, you kind of go through that list. Two of them that are very interested are the Miami Heat and the New York Knicks. And they don't have picks. They just don't have first round picks. And it's kind of incredible to me. It's honestly a little staggering, like These two teams have been, quote, unquote, linked to Giannis forever. They've been planning, they've been monitoring, they've been doing everything in their power to be in position for Giannis atetokounbo.

[B]

Except for preparing.

[C]

Except for.

[A]

And they're not in position for Giannis Atetekoumbo. Like, how did you fail? I've listened for years about all the heat they're thinking about. They want Giannis. Well, why wouldn't you put a plan together to get him? Why don't you have a plan? Why can other teams beat everything that you can offer? The New York Knicks, you've. Speaking of mortgages, they don't have any picks. They have no first rounders. How, in a world where you've been planning, monitoring, thinking, hoping for Giannis de Kumbo, do you not have a pathway to have the best package for? Yes, it, it truly blows my mind. And that's where I'm saying, like, from a logic standpoint, it seems illogical to me that the Milwaukee Bucks are gonna be able to get the best package possible for Giannis de Kumbo in the next week. But these are pressure packed situations. These are situations the Milwaukee Bucks haven't been in before. These are situations other teams haven't been in before. Every time they've ever asked about Giannis, they've gotten turned away and said, don't even think about it. Oh my gosh, this might be our only chance. How many picks do we have? Can we throw all of them in there? Do we have young players? What can we do? Can we make a three team trade? Can we. You start to go through all those machinations and when you do that, when you think maybe this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, then maybe logic gets thrown out the window. And that could be from the Bucks perspective, and that could be from other teams perspectives. That's where I think it gets difficult because I just don't. To me, there's not, there's not a logical reason that it has to happen now, especially with an injury that's going to sideline Giannis.

[B]

You can shut him down for the season if you're the Bucks, and apparently you can just do that. I mean, Trey Young's not going to play for the Wizards, right. And if you're, you're this bad, you've got a, this is now a recurring injury with, with Giannis. Like you can, you could easily just.

[A]

Yeah, and the other teams that might want to trade for him would probably be okay with you shutting him down too. Like, they wouldn't think anything less of him, and they would know that he's healthy as well. So that's why. That's where I say logically. Logically speaking, a trade should not occur before the trade deadline.

[B]

Well, you open it up to more bidders, but we're used to seeing stars be able to dictate where they go. And with Giannis, especially, because that October 1st date where he can sign an extension, it's right. It's right there. This isn't something that the next team is going to have to wait on. Is there a chance that we get a dark horse?

[A]

So let me stop you there.

[C]

So there is a wrinkle to that, right?

[A]

Yeah. So you do need to be on a team for at least six months before you can sign a supermax extension.

[B]

But he'll. They will know if he's gonna sign before they make the trip.

[A]

Yes, I would think so.

[B]

Is there any chance we get a dark horse similar to, like, the Raptors with Kawhi back in the day? Right. Like, we'll try it and maybe we can sell them on the culture?

[A]

Well, I think one of the things you'd really be selling is, or at least you'd be selling to yourself, you'd be saying, all right, I could wait to the off season. I might have the best package. Then that's great. If you wait to the off season, Giannis De Kumbo is not going to play in the playoffs. And that would be what you'd be thinking in your head, that even if I don't have full assurances that this guy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Wants to play for me, wants to extend, I'm gonna get him for two playoff runs. And if there's one thing that you know about Giannis, it's that he's going to play incredibly hard and he's going to want to be on the floor. Like, I think anyone with eyes saw in the last game that he played with the Bucks this season, he should not have been playing after the first quarter.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It was obvious he was not himself. He couldn't explode. He couldn't do the things they did. And he was out there because he was trying to drag his team to win. That is the type of competitor that this guy is. So, yeah, if you're some team and you're not 100% sure, I don't think you have any concerns about, well, we're going to trade for him, and then he's not going to play hard. That dude is going to play hard every single night for whatever team he's on in whatever competition he's in. Like, it does not matter. He's gonna play hard. And I think that's at least one thing where, Dave, you're asking about dark horse. If you're a dark horse, you can feel comfortable. You can think to yourself, like, okay, yeah, he might not be ecstatic to be here, but when you kick off with them, he's going to compete. And if we win one during that time, who knows, maybe he changes his mind and he does want to sign because you've been able to give him that second championship or that opportunity at a second championship. So, yeah, again, logic dictates that a trade should not occur before the trade deadline. But a dark horse would be an illogical candidate. The Bucks could maybe feel like they need to get this over with and they need to get out of this cycle, lose some games, get what they can get, and kind of go from there. But again, logic would dictate that that is not what should occur.

[C]

So the other aspect to waiting in the off season is that some of these teams that are, quote, unquote, turning their nose up at Giannis in Oklahoma City Thunder or Houston Rockets or San Antonio spurs, oh, now they're talking desperation. I'm. No, I'm just saying they might lose early in the playoffs, and that ends up changing the calculus for them in terms of their willingness to include young players and picks and whatnot. So the. The amount of teams that are offered, there's just more availability there.

[A]

I was gonna say, in this moment, there's. I'm not gonna say that there's not desperation, but there's, like, a lot of hope. There's a lot of belief. Like, if you are a playoff team right now, you believe in your team because they got to this point, right? Like. Like. Like the Toronto Raptors. They are a good example, right? Like, they have always been a team that's rumored for Giannis and all those things, but they're playing really great basketball in who knows if they want to mess that up? Like, they might not, because they believe internally in their team and they'd rather take a chance with that. And then in the off season, okay, this version of us didn't work. We didn't have enough. Let's go make them.

[C]

So who are the teams now? Because that's what everybody wants to know. And I know you did like, an article on the Athletic. Everybody should go read it about potential trades that could go down. Obviously, Minnesota is a team that's. That seems interested. Miami, Atlanta. What. What do you think is the. Who do you think has the best package for Giannis right now?

[A]

Oh, wow. So I think there's a lot of teams that aren't interested in doing it that would have great packages. Right? Oklahoma City. Yeah, Oklahoma City.

[C]

San Antonio. Right.

[A]

You know, last summer when we went through this for the, I don't know, the 12th time and we're on the 13th time now, but when we went through it last summer, like, Oklahoma City's there, the spurs are there, the Rockets are there. I would be curious on the Rockets, like, as far as, like, best packages potentially likely. I know the Rockets are steadfast in that this is the team that we believe in and we're not going to make a big move. I watched them struggle in the fourth quarter against spurs last night.

[C]

Pretty consistently all year, by the way.

[B]

That's.

[C]

Yeah, that seems to be an issue for them.

[A]

And the player in the NBA that scores the most fourth quarter points. Anybody know his name? Yeah, that's right. Giannis Dedicumbo. And who's been one of the most efficient clutch scorers over the last seven years? That's right. Yanis Tedegubo. So you kind of go through all that and it's like, all right, the one I put together today was, you know, Shangoon, I think, Dorian, Finney Smith, Reed shepherd, and a first like that works from like a movie money perspective. And you get to pair them with KD for the rest of Katie's contract. And you don't have to give up a bunch of future picks. You're just giving up players. Maybe. I don't know. That's interesting. I think the Hawks, if they want it, have the best package, period. They, as our own Sam Amick reported today they're not interested. They're trying to build something similar to the Oklahoma City Thunder to the San Antonio Spurs. They don't want to fast track it. And I think if you look at their roster, it makes some sense, right? Like, that is a very young roster. They have a lot of expiring contracts. It's clear that they're going to build something new. Coming here and fast tracking it with Giannis maybe doesn't make a ton of sense, but yeah, if you put Jalen Johnson and a pick on the table, yeah, maybe that pick doesn't end up being the first pick. But then all of a sudden the Bucks have control of both sides of the pick swap and they just have two first round picks. Yeah, I think the Bucks would love that. So I think they can do that. I still I know the Heat and Knicks are in this and those are some of the most interested suitors and those are the teams that people are keeping an eye on. And I had, I took a quick gander over the comments of my story today and it was like, people are like, why do we not see a Heat or next package? Like, why did you not do it? And truly, I tell you, I spent hours on each pick. Like, I'm trying to find a package where I can reroute some players to a third team so that I can then get first round picks from the Knicks or the Heat. And it is difficult. Like, I know, I know, like, there's always ways to do things and there's people in front offices that are a lot more creative than I am. I will never deny that. I'm sure you can find some way to reroute everything to make it work and get the Bucks and picks. But those two teams, I think it's really difficult. I thought the Wolves are an interesting team. They have a lot of really good players. They have a lot of depth. I think you could get to a spot where you trade some of those things out. The Portland Trailblazers were the team, I included. I think Portland's a team that every team that wants Giannis is going to be looking to because the Blazers have some of the Bucks picks in the future, which is an easy way to like, if the Bucks can just extinguish some swaps and get their own picks back, that makes a rebuild a whole lot easier.

[C]

Like a Drew Holiday reunion too, if possible.

[A]

Right, right. Like, if you don't have picks for the next five years, it's hard to be a crummy team. Like, if you're rebuilding and you're trying to help young players get better, it's hard to be bad in those moments because you just don't have your picks. And. And that's like the way that you have to work through it. The warriors are team obviously mentioned in the mix. Everyone will tell you they have all of their picks and that is very exciting and it is. But I think it's fair to say that a Giannis and Steph team for as long as Steph plays. I think three years is fair. Maybe four or five. I don't know. Modern medicine and the dedication of athletes, especially one that gets to play with Giannis de Kumbo workload is going to be a little lighter. Maybe you can go a little bit longer. Those picks for the next three years aren't going to be any good a pick Swap with one of the best teams in the league does not help me because my pick is better. I don't need that pick swap. So that's not helpful to me. Their pick, not super helpful to me because they are just so much better. They're going to be a contending team. Those are going to be a lot of picks in the 20s. I don't know how attractive those picks actually are and I understand it would be a lot of them, like if I said give us the next seven years, swaps, picks, whole thing, let's do it. We want your draft for the next seven years. It sounds very good. It sounds very good. But they're not your picks and that team is probably going to be good. And if Giannis De Kumbo gets to San Francisco, I would guess they are going to be able to acquire other good players that might play those. Those picks are all going to be in the 20s. And, and that is what I would say is one of the hold ups where some of these teams don't have any picks and then the one team that does have picks, I think everyone could imagine it being so good that those picks are not at all like, not at all helpful to you. Like, wow, you have a pick in the 20, in the 20 range for the next seven years. Awesome that it is helpful when you have no picks. I'm not trying to like totally disparage that idea, but like you don't have your own picks and you just have these picks in the 20s, that's not going to help you rebuild. Trading the greatest player in franchise history, that that's just not going to be a super compelling package. So like I said, logic dictates we shouldn't see something before the deadline, but you never know what can happen.

[B]

Yeah, I have a feeling, Eric, that even if he gets traded, we're going to be making fake Giannis trades every spring for another seven years. Guys, go and read Eric over at the Athletic. Let him know how you feel about his fake trades. Let us know here in the comments on YouTube how you feel about all of Eric's fake trades, especially if you don't like them. Let us know for Eric, Dave, and ask Farahenny. I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

[A]

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