← The Athletic NBA Daily
Loading summary
Transcript87 lines
- [00:08]
A
Good morning and welcome Back to the NBA Daily. I'm Dave DeFore here with Dan Woicke. Coming up, we're going to talk all about Uncle Dennis and take a look at the Los Angeles Lakers upcoming season. Good morning, everybody. What's up, Dan Woie? Welcome to the show. I. You've had a pretty fun summer, man. How was, how was Poland? And how was Eurobasket?
- [00:35]
B
My first taste of Eurobasket. It was awesome, Dave. I mean, I'm sure you've talked about it. Like, it's just like, it just means more, I think, as the people would say, right? Like energy and the arena, the way that people care about possessions. In the third quarter, you know, it's very different. It's like the last three minutes of like a great basketball game, but just for 40 minutes, but more fouling too much. But like otherwise it was awesome.
- [01:05]
A
There was a lot of falling.
- [01:07]
B
Yeah. And then it's like weird too. Like I haven't done like a lot of international travel, so like being in a place where so few people spoke English was like, it was like simultaneously fascinating and isolating. Like, it was just like the first few days I was there was like a real, like I had like, I hadn't spoken to anybody for a couple of days, you know what I mean? Like, you'd see people in the gym that you knew. Like, I would see like Luca or like, you know, Greg St. Gene, one of the Lakers assistant coaches was on the staff and like you'd have like, you know, a brief, brief interactions with like Sasha Doncic in English. And then I wouldn't speak any English to anyone else and I'd be working and I was jet lagged and I would order Burger King Ubereats, Delicious by the way. Like they had like a falafel sandwich.
- [01:56]
A
And for Burger King, the Burger King overseas, right. Like people will hear something like that and they don't get it. But like Burger King in Europe, totally different. Way better than what we have here. Yeah, it's completely different. I don't know where they get their, their stuff from, but maybe we should, you know, we should swap one of.
- [02:12]
B
The best burgers I've ever had in my life, Dave, was that when I covered the 20, 20, 21 Olympics in Tokyo, we weren't allowed to go anywhere. And There was a McDonald's across from our hotel in Japan and they had something called the Samurai Mac and it was basically like a Quarter Pounder with cheese with grilled onions and like a soy sauce glaze and it was piping hot. The Beef was good, and it was like $3. It was awesome. It was so good.
- [02:44]
A
Well, food in Japan, shout out to the rest of the world, great prices. I see now for me, like, when you're in, like, the, the airport in Japan and you go and you load up on sushi and it costs you, like, five bucks, that's where I really start to feel like, okay, these, these people are just living better than us. Speaking of living better than us, Uncle Dennis Robertson is living pretty well over at the Athletic. You and, and Sam Amick and Mike Vorkanoff, you, you combine forces to do a little bit of a profile on Uncle Dennis, the man of mystery behind Kawhi Leonard's negotiation team, I think we'll say, or at least the tactics. What. What was the most interesting thing that you learned about Uncle Dennis that you can say that that didn't make the piece, which, by the way, go and read it over at the Athletic. It's, it's pretty interesting.
- [03:38]
B
I mean, I mean, he's fascinating. There are, like, layers upon layers to Dennis Robertson. I, I think the thing that I was most interested in, in general was this sort of protocol international business, which is like the, the, the. The management company name that he uses. Like, it is a company that Dave exists to provide business etiquette, professionalism training to people. Like that is like sort of the, the umbrella term, right? It's. It's Dennis and his wife, they come.
- [04:11]
A
In and tell you to start with the outside fork, right?
- [04:15]
B
So, okay, you're. This is hilarious. So this did not make the story, but, like, I love this. In the book, there's a book that Dennis wrote, the forward to that his wife wrote about etiquette and dining etiquette and like, business meals and stuff like that. And in the book, like, that's just crazy. Again, you have Dennis Robertson, who is accused by everybody in the NBA of having no business etiquette, writing the forward to a book about business etiquette. So you have. There is a quote, an Emily Post quote in the book about basically, like, etiquette isn't about which fork you use. It's about, like, living life with respect or something like that. It's like a nice quote. It's on, like, page 15.
- [04:58]
A
Yeah.
- [04:58]
B
And then page 16 in the book is which fork you should use. Like, it's like, here's the quote. And then the next page is like, okay, so it does matter what fork you're going to use.
- [05:08]
A
Does it have anything about sporks? Like, when is a spork Appropriate, right? Like, that's what I want to know. When do you break out the sporks?
- [05:14]
B
There was nothing in there. I mean, there was something about, like, you should. You should soup. You should spoon your soup towards you in a meal and not away from you. Which makes sense. I mean, like, why would you. Soup spoon. Why would you. Why would you spoon your soup away from you? You Super. Towards you. You should seem very obvious. What about you should not. When you get a roll from the bread basket, all right, you should not communally butter your roll. You should take some butter with your knife, put the butter on your plate, and then butter from that. You should also not just tear into it like a caveman. And this, by the way, is the difference. These are important tips. This is the difference between you're getting $28 million from aspiration and not so.
- [05:56]
A
Okay, let's talk about this. Because the big underlying thing theme with this, this entire Uncle Dennis Kawhi saga is that in every single negotiation with every team that we know of, he was asking for ownership in the team. He was asking for outside sponsorships. Like, this has been reported. Bruce Arthur wrote about it with Toronto. Obviously, the Lakers stuff has been out there now, here, recently.
- [06:21]
B
2019. Yeah, yep, yep.
- [06:24]
A
Sam, right. Sam's been on this case for a while now. So. So we've got this pattern of history. We have the business dealings that, you know, that he's been involved in this entire time. I guess what I'm getting at is why is this guy such a mystery when it seems like he's so involved in the day to day of the Kawhi Leonard business? It's. It's odd to me that we don't know more about him. I mean, he's not an agent, which I guess is maybe part of that. And that's also kind of how he hides. But not, not that he's hiding. I don't want to imply that, but yeah, he's a mystery figure, but he's been around forever.
- [06:59]
B
Well, I mean, okay, so he has one client, functionally, right? And by having one, and by having one client at least, like, let's go back to 2019, because they're like new rules and stuff like that that like kind of get in the way of some of the stuff now. And, you know, in my reporting, like for instance, like Kawhi and Dennis were involved with Team USA last summer. And as far as I could tell, not really an issue, right? Like, there wasn't any. Like, I need this. I need, you know, I need to Be the ambassador to, you know, Greenland or. There were no wild requests, like, in any of this stuff. It was like, oh, let's get quiet there. You need to see him work out, to see how he's looking, how the knee looks and all that stuff. Like, yeah, sure, let's facilitate it, you know, and obviously Kawaii ends up not playing. I heard, you know, after, after the, the matter, Dennis was texting people involved with Team USA to congratulate them. Like, it was like, pretty classy. So the. All that's the same. But like, back in 2019, right, you have Dennis Robertson, a former banker, someone I would under. I would imagine understands the basics, right? At minimum, supply and demand in like representing somebody in incredibly high demand, right, with incredibly limited supply and Kawhi Leonard and going into these negotiations and asking for everything to some degree, right? Like, that's what the reporting kind of shows is that this was somebody willing to like, go say, like, I've got the guy, like, this is what I want. And that, you know, also behind the scenes and stuff like that was asking for little things too. Like, was just like kind of asking because he was in a position of real strength. And so, you know, is part. And then that's also happening at the same time as. Let me, Let me. Sorry, let me take a step back here. So if, if he had had 30 clients, right, you can't, right, you can't negotiate like this because you're going to need favors down the line. You're going to want to get people in camp, you're going to want to get jobs and stuff like that. Like, so you have reasons not to be overbearing. There are, there are inherent guardrails on you as an agent, both in rule but also like, sort of in, like, social norms and how you have to carry yourself that, like, you can't, you can't do this to teams because you'll. Your reputation matters and different things like that. When you have a singular client who cares, like, you know what I mean?
- [09:26]
A
Like, the only relationship that he has to worry about 100%.
- [09:30]
B
So there's that. That was one thing that was happening too, that I think is interesting in this. And that's part of the reason why he was able to do the other thing too is that, like, from a reporting standpoint, Kawhi Leonard's really, really hard to write about. Like, you know, he's hard to get to, you know, from, like, he doesn't really do a lot of interviews when he, when he would do them, he's Not a gregarious person. He possesses, I think. And we'll talk, we'll talk about Luca in a minute. Like, there's some similarities in this way, you know, like when, when the, when, like one of the things about your personality. I know for me when I try to write about these people, I want to show their personalities. And it's like if, if sarcasm is like one of your, like, like defining traits. Sarcasm is really hard to convey.
- [10:17]
A
Right.
- [10:18]
B
It's one of the reasons why like, Fun Guy played so well or the laugh played so well or Boardman gets paid plays so well because it's dry and it's like, you know, but like, if I try to tell you, do you know who has a real dry sense of humor? It's Kawhi Leonard. It, it. It's kind of hard to show that. Right. I remember being in Vegas and they had like this press junket for Team USA last summer and, or two summers ago, I guess now, and they would bring players in and stuff like that. And one of the questions that would always get asked to guys, like, who's the funniest guy on the team? And like a bunch of people would say, Kawhi Leonard. And you're like, oh, like, tell me how, like, does he have a good joke? Like, does he do, does he do a funny tyloo impression? Like, what is it? And it would always be like, oh man, he's just funny. Just says funny stuff and like, okay, how do you write that? How do you show that? So like, I think he's able to like, operate in sort of, sort of this, like, he's not a particularly flashy player. Like, Right. Like to like a general audience.
- [11:22]
A
It's hard to show he's a blue collar basketball player. Right?
- [11:25]
B
Yeah. He doesn't do media.
- [11:27]
A
He plays like old school guy.
- [11:29]
B
So like, he just, he's a big mystery. There's like, you know, everybody's really like, afraid, like they've, they've created this culture around him where it's like, you. We don't talk about him or what his body, what's happening with his body post San Antonio and stuff like that. And so Dennis doesn't really get talked about and hadn't really been getting talked about. And so it was, it was a real challenge, you know, calling around and stuff like that. Like, I know for me it was, it was hard to find people like, willing to like, really like, sort of go to bat for him. We found some, but it was a challenge, you know, and I think and, and I Think most people that did go to bat for him would say something along the lines of like, either a. This is like, these kinds of things are like more common than you think. Like, people ask for stuff all the time, right? Like, that's one element of it. And I think. Dave. Sorry, I'm rambling, but I think like, people do ask for stuff all the time, but a lot of times it's like your uncle will ask for stuff, right? Like a player's cousin will ask for stuff. A player's friend will ask for stuff. Like the manager. The guy that's around that person, though, generally isn't also doing the negotiating. Those are almost like two separate lanes of asks, right? Like the, hey, like, I need a bunch of T shirts. Like, that guy is. Is usually not the agent. And that's like another weird convergence. And all of this stuff that is like, led to what I consider to be kind of a one on one situation currently in the NBA.
- [12:57]
A
Yeah, I mean, it definitely is unique. And those team issued quarter zips, that's. They're worth a lot of money, man. You know, you put that thing on, you can pretty much walk anywhere in the NBA arena and nobody's going to bother you. So. I understand that is true. Yeah. We're gonna take a quick break. We'll be back to talk about the Lakers and Skinny Luca. Are they contenders? I think the biggest story to come out of this summer for the Lakers is that not just that Luka looked pretty good in Eurobasket, Luca looks skinny, looked fit. This guy apparently took to heart all of the, the, the things that were coming out of Dallas. We'll say about his conditioning and, and I, I'll be honest here, he was not in good shape the last few years, and part of that is injuries, but he looks pretty good now. Dan, what did you think about your early impressions? Like what, what did you think about seeing Skinny Luca out there at Eurobasket?
- [14:11]
B
Yeah, I think, you know, talking to people around him after the trade last year, I think there was some optimism that whether the trade had happened or not, that there would be like some sort of like mid to late 20s, sort of like the, the realization like Nicola Jokic had at some point, right. Is the one people point to, to like, oh, all right, like I need to treat myself differently and I'm going to, I'm going to adjust. And there was some optimism that that would have happened regardless. I would say he had kind of settled into a, a medical team around him and different things like that. People he'd worked with on the Slovenia national team, people he'd worked with at Real Madrid and. And, like, you know, okay, these are going to be my guys. Like, I'm going to trust them. I'm going to do what they say, and, like, we're going to get across the finish line. Then I think, obviously, the trade happens. His fitness being a big reason for why, you know, in part, the trade happened, the sort of messaging out of Dallas about his conditioning, losing in the first round of the playoffs, you know, all that stuff kind of combined to. And then going into, by the way, like, the opportunity to sign a massive contract this summer. Like, you know, all of those things sort of work together in the Lakers favor and in Luka Donch's favor to, like, all right, it's time to get serious about this. And he got very serious about it. And I think, you know, so he looked great on the COVID of magazine stuff like that. Like, let's see it on the court, right? And I thought, you know, in Poland, and it's a little different when you're like, you know, splitting double teams against the Polish national team or the Icelandic national team than it is when it's like the Thunder. But I thought he was way faster, in particular against double teams out of pick and roll coverages. Like, double team would come. Last year, he kind of just accepted him, you know, and I think in Dallas, too, he got. He just sort of would welcome it because he's such a good passer and he can find the right guy. This was like, nope, I'm going through your double team. I'm going around your double team. Like, I'm going to create five on threes, you know what I mean? Instead of. Instead of just taking it and playing four on three. And that was one of the biggest things I noticed. The other thing, too, was like, quite frankly, he was just more active defensively, like, going for steals. Not going to be Tony Allen, like, ever. Sure. And teams would still come.
- [16:32]
A
He's had good hands, though.
- [16:34]
B
Yeah. And putting himself in positions to still create advantages with quickness and stuff like that. And there was just more burst. That was the biggest thing I saw from him in Europe, and I think, you know, getting him in camp now with LeBron James and Austin Reeves, three pretty gifted offensive players that are all smart players. I think it's exciting to kind of see what they can cook up as how they can make this sort of work together, if they can make it work together.
- [16:59]
A
I mean, wow. I mean, what does it look like? You know, full. Full training camp, you Know, full season and offensive game plan that includes Luka from the start, you know, is it going to be what we saw toward the end of last season? As far as the offense goes, obviously they simplified things when, when Luca got there. But like, what do you see them? Like, what's LeBron's role in this?
- [17:25]
B
I mean, look, right, like the stuff they can do with like Luka, LeBron picking roles or LeBron and Luka picking roles and different things like that. It should be pretty exciting and they'll, they'll have stuff like that. I mean, honestly, like, I think a lot of this, like kind of your optimism for the Lakers, like should be like, how big is your memory of what the Lakers were last year after the trade? Right? Like, how far back are you willing to stretch? Because like that team, I would say from, you know, Luka was getting his sea legs to like basically when LeBron got injured late in the year against the Celtics, like, that team looked awesome. They were winning big games, they were beating good teams, like good basketball team. And they were figuring things out like really on the fly. And I thought they had kind of settled into who they were. They had some late season injuries. I think some of JJ Redick's like, you know, first year coaching stuff got exposed a little bit. I think they didn't have to use that bigs. Yeah, like things like that, right. That, that really, really hurt them combined with some bad luck and different stuff like that. And your season's over. It's simple as that. You weren't good enough. I do think though, this team is better on paper this year for what they're trying to accomplish. They have more volume, they have more guys. They have some pretty big question marks and we should get into what those are. But I think like, you know, at least as you enter the year, you have to feel a little bit better about your path. Last year was just sort of like, how good can our great players be? This year I think is more like how good can our team be? If that makes sense. The difference between those two things.
- [19:09]
A
What, what are the question marks? You know, they, they signed deandre Ayton, so they've got.
- [19:14]
B
That's a question mark.
- [19:15]
A
I think an upgraded, an upgraded center though, based on what they had last year.
- [19:20]
B
And I agree, I think, and what they were able to, how they were able to get deandre Aiden, you know, after a buyout and different things like that, going into a make it or break it season. Great timing, right? Really talented player. Luka knows him. Luka wanted to Play with them. Luka recruited him to la. Win, win, win. Hopefully you get the best version of that player and if he's healthy and he's available. And I think even like, look, the Jackson Hayes run last year in the regular season as a starting center, better than people realized. I was there every day was like, like for a month and a half was like pretty credible. And if that's. If you need. Those two guys are your pick and roll partners with Luka Doncic, that can work at least certainly in an 82 game setting. I think Marcus Smart's ability to play high impact minutes, like as a primary point of attack defender for the team is going to be incredibly crucial. Right? And it's been, it's been a minute, right? It's been about a year and a half. I think I wrote this after they signed him. There was a YouTube video. It was like Marcus Smart's Hunter best plays as a Celtic or something like that. And it's like him taking charges and blocking shots and diving for. It's all like the winning stuff. Like you want, like you look at it and this is why it's a. The type of player that raises your floor so high every night with effort, with toughness, with intangibles, like all of that stuff, right? And then like you're watching that and you're, you're fascinated by seeing him make these plays and you're thinking about how this can fit with Luka and LeBron and. And then you look at who he's doing it against and it's like, Shea doesn't have braids yet. You know what I mean? Like, Anthony Edwards is a rookie. Anthony Edwards is a rookie. And it's like, oh my God, there's Carmelo Anthony. And it reminds me like, it's been a long time and it's like, it's. It really. Like two years in the NBA is an eternity. And so like, can you, can he like reasonably get to some version of that? He doesn't have to be defensive player of the year. Good. Uh, but he needs to be good and he needs to be important. And I think like that. That's a big, That's a big question to me is like most of the questions to me with this team is like, are they going to defend well enough? And he's a big part of that answer.
- [21:38]
A
What does the starting lineup look like to you? You know, Obviously, I mean, LeBron, Austin, Reeves, Luca, I'm assuming Deandre Ayton's the five. I mean, who's that? That fifth starter, is it Marcus Smart?
- [21:50]
B
So that, that's the question. I think it's going to be Rui Hajimura. I just think that that is the starting five. That was the starting five last year. I think that is a way to again like preserve, preserve, preserve status quo to a degree, preserve continuity. You know, I don't think like weirdly enough in the playoffs like the Lakers did have some defensive problems. They, it wasn't why they lost. They lost because they couldn't score. Like Minnesota totally shut them down in fourth quarters. Like they scored no points in the fourth quarter. I think they lost every fourth quarter in that series and didn't lose them like 45 to 10. Like it was like they, it was, they couldn't score. So I'm sorry, 45 to 35, it was like more because it was like 25, 10. So stuff like that. So I, I, I think that's the starting lap. I think Rui is a really good fit for Luka Doncic. He plays the baseline really well, he guards up really well. He's become a really good spot up shooter out of the corner. Like the list of guys that are like 6 foot 8 and shoot 40% from 3 in this league is pretty small and he's on it. So I, I, I think my hunch is like that's the starting five and then your backup, your backup units are going to be like sort of the, you know, wreck the world defensively groups. Right. Like that'll be Gabe Vincent and Marcus Smartass to kind of like cause havoc. Similar to what when they had success last year they were doing that with like Jordan Goodwin and they were doing it with, with, with Gabe and, and playing defensively that way. Jake Laravia is an interesting guy on this team.
- [23:34]
A
Dave.
- [23:35]
B
Yeah. You know, day one free legacy guy. Yeah. Like what does he look like around winning players? He possesses I think like winning qualities as a role player. But like, but like shooting size, defensive versatility, toughness. All right. How does that fit with a team that needs those things? I don't know. We asked JJ Redick yesterday about the starting lineup and he was basically like don't care, don't think about it was where he was at on it.
- [24:03]
A
Maybe he'll plug it into chat GPT and it'll give him an answer. I'm not, I'm not sure. Obviously like this team, the, the bulk of its success is going to come based on what Luca does, what LeBron does. Is there anybody that's poised to take a leap to break out?
- [24:21]
B
I mean I think Reeves is in a really interesting situation this year heading into free agency. Like Austin Reeves. Yeah, Austin Reeves, I think he's a player who's gotten better every year he's been in the NBA. His players whose role has changed basically every year he's been in the NBA. This is the most established situation he'll have been in. He has the trust of a coach, he has the trust of the stars. Like, will this be like, will there be a leap? And like what I mean by like I don't think like even it's not a statistical thing. Like the stats are, are really, really good already. It's just like a night to night and I think people who watch Lakers night tonight know what he brings. But like does he like, does he elevate himself onto like a closer tier on this team as those other two players? And when I meet Luke and LeBron and like the way JJ Redick talked to those guys last year was as equals, you know, like as like three legs of a, of a, you know, of a, of a table. Oh, okay.
- [25:25]
A
Now I would say it's more like that three headed dragon meme where you have the two that look really tough and then okay, and Austin Reeves a pretty good player. But yeah, I mean we're talking about.
- [25:36]
B
Top 10 players, right? But I think that's like, I mean they had a meeting, they had a meeting last year in Memphis and that was like they empowered those three players to be like, you got to do like this has got to be the. And I think like, you know, for Austin, really important role in that locker room too as like a bridge guy, right? 27 years old, young enough talk to the young players as respect to the older players. Those guys are like really critical behind the scenes. Big year for him. I think, you know, I meant Laravia is another interesting guy for me in terms of this season. As to like what he is as a player in the NBA, you don't really get. I think Zach Kleiman said it like they screwed up, they should have picked up his option. They didn't. You know, he hits free agency and so now you get a what, 23 year old, a 23 year old wing in free agency. Like that doesn't happen all that often. So fascinating player there. I'm trying to think of like, can I tell you who I think is like a really interesting player for like and I have no idea what to make of this guy is Dalton Connect.
- [26:39]
A
Dalton connect, yeah. And we piece to me, by the.
- [26:42]
B
Way, deandre Aiden is the most Interesting guy on the team. Just to be totally clear, like DeAndre would agree with the most interesting is the most interesting guy on the team. He has the highest variance. You know, you asked earlier, are they contenders if he has a good year? Maybe if DeAndre Hayden has a really good year. Maybe if he doesn't, I don't know. I think though, the, I think like the, the reason like Connect is so fascinating is I do think he is. If, if can, if he can build some value, it's going to be. He's the best thing. They have to trade that they're probably willing to trade.
- [27:24]
A
Right?
- [27:24]
B
His value is not high though, around the lake. He does not have value currently. Like the value is not high. Like he has to rebuild value.
- [27:31]
A
That's interesting. I mean, is there, is there a guy out there that you could see them making a swing for? I mean, you know, we're recording this before media day. Is there a chance that like Andrew Wiggins, right, We've heard his name floated out there as a Lakers candidate. I think that as far as fit goes, it's absolutely perfect if you compare Andrew Wiggins with Luca and LeBron, in my opinion. But is there someone out there?
- [27:59]
B
I mean, I think, you know, that's the most obvious name. Will Miami like actually pull the trigger on a. Like we're going to like move on off of a player we like for quote unquote, like rebuild pieces. Like, you know, I think the offer the Lakers would want to make would be one of expiring contracts, not Rui Hachimura's expiring contracts. You know that they don't want to trade a first round pick for a player like Andrew Wiggins. I think the first round pick is sort of in the. Is sitting in the hopper for bigger and bigger plans in the future should one should, should an opportunity become available. I think. But yeah, like it's. It's going to be like two way wings, right? It's what everybody wants, like athleticism and two way wings. It's. I don't think they're going to do a deal with the Clippers. Like a guy like Derrick Jones Jr. Would be really good on this basketball team. You know, somebody like those. So those are the archetypes, right? Like, like I think. And so as the year goes on, like if a player like that pops somewhere, that's a place they could move. But I mean they don't, Dave. They don't have a ton to trade, right? Like, Austin Reaves is probably on paper their best trade piece. He's going into free agency and he's about to command a lot of money that stifle. Unless you're the team that's going to pay him. Are you trading for him as a rental? Like that lowers his value. And if it lowers his value enough, why are the Lakers trading him just for pieces like that? Probably doesn't make sense. They've got, know, expiring contracts out the wazoo in terms of guys like Gabe Vincent, Maxi cba, you know, Rui Hamura, again, nice player. I think he's part of their future, but we'll see. It's not like they're just overflowing with assets to like go get like Kendrich Williams or somebody like that or Herb Jones. Like, those are, those are the guys that would fit awesome on this team. If they had enough to go trade for Herb Jones, that would be great. I don't think they have enough to go trade for Herb Jones in a meaningful way.
- [30:00]
A
You, you talked about the team's lack of point of attack defense. What about some internal development? Like, I had a chance to watch Bronnie James at summer league and I saw some of his G league last year. I think this, I think he can play. I, I don't know if he can be in your regular rotation. Okay. But I think he can play. The offense is still a little rough, but defensively I actually think that he's got a real chance to be a very good defensive player. You see any, any chance that he's in their plans for this year? Whether it's development, like, hey, we're going to get him in every fifth game when we can, or is he going to be mostly a G league guy this year?
- [30:43]
B
So they're a little, I mean, they're a little crowded, right. When it comes to like that kind of guard space. Right between you have Reeves, you have, you have Gabe Vincent, you have Marcus Smart, right, Like, or kind of Andy of Luka Doncic, right. Like, so those are, those are guys I'd be playing in that. So if he's probably right now, he's probably like your fifth guy. He did take. I mean, you talk to people around the organization, they think the biggest thing with Friday, James, there's two things. One, like, where's your confidence at? And we saw from summer league last year, the summer league this year, like a massive jump when it comes to like the confidence in which he's playing. His command just sort of of his own body and his own athleticism and his comfort, you know, like, this was a guy Dave that like, the Lakers had to move off the ball in summer league a year ago because he couldn't do it. And, you know, he was on the ball every possession basically, you know, this year, so. And he did in the G League too. Right. So I think, like, I think you're kind of like, yeah, like, maybe you roll it out there and you see like, you know, what he has. I think the second thing is that they talk about is like, he needs to be like, in like awesome, awesome shape. And what they mean by that is like the ability to go in and play like six or seven minutes of just like high octane defense. And that's exhausting. Like, it, like, that's just really, really hard to do in the league. And I think that's where they think his value is. They think he has, you know, the athleticism to play bigger than his size. You know, I don't know that he's like this, the tippy, tippy, like 1% type of athlete his dad is, but I think he's a very good athlete. So he's strong. He's super strong. He's like a big kid and he's about the right stuff. I, I think, like, you know, it's certainly for all of the, the kind of, the jokes and the memes about him, it's. I think it's proven to be a pretty worthwhile bet on a player who again, is about the right stuff, works hard, isn't a problem, you know, and wants to be great and is like, willing to, you know, has some of the physical tools. I think we just need to see that sort of high impact defensive stuff on a more regular basis. Big preseason for him, you know, definitely a thing I think in the preseason is like, can you like, get into dudes like, like full court? Can you, can you, can you disrupt, you know, make. Make, you know, the shot clock period from 17 to 10 miserable, you know, like, is. If you can do that, then, then there might be, there might be an opportunity for him.
- [33:30]
A
We're getting an idea now though, of the type of athlete that he, that he is. And I think that, you know, obviously he had the heart issue and recovering from that, it seemed like it, it was a little slow. There's no way he just gained this much athleticism in a year.
- [33:45]
B
It's physically and mentally, right? Like, yeah, I think like a big part of it is like, you know, having the confidence to like, put your foot on the gas all the way too.
- [33:53]
A
Right, right.
- [33:54]
B
I mean, it's somebody whose heart stops.
- [33:55]
A
Essentially coming Back from an injury.
- [33:58]
B
Yeah. Like, his heart stopped on a basketball court. Like, think about that and think about, like, the trust and the faith you have to have in, like, your recovery to, like, really let it rip again. And I think you're getting. We're seeing, like, some of that from him. And now the question is. Is, like, okay, cool. How. How long can I play at peak speed, at peak effort? And as he, like, learns that. I remember Max Christie told me something last year that I thought was really interesting, was that, like, he sort of had to learn, like, what playing hard. Was that, like, he thought he was playing hard, but, like, in reality, it's like, no. Like, it's worse. Like, you think you're playing hard, but, like, unless you think, like, you're going to, like, throw up your lungs, like, you're probably not playing hard enough in terms of, like, what playing hard, like, actually means. And I think for young players, like, they have to learn that, and I think Bronnie's learning that.
- [34:50]
A
So how about an old player? What are we expecting out of LeBron at this point? He continues to defy the aging curve for professional athletes. I mean, last season, his defense, I think, was completely underrated and missed in that. In that huge stretch that they went where they run, ran off all those wins before the Luca trade. He had an amazing year, and now his role is going to be different. Right? Like, he's going to be able to. Like we saw. He's gonna be able to slash more. He's gonna be able to be the screener in pick and rolls rather than the primary ball handler. I don't know. I mean, what do we expect? Is he going to make all NBA again?
- [35:28]
B
Okay. Like, everything is going to run through Luka Doncic to some extent, provided he's right. Right. I. I do agree with you, though, Dave. I thought minus, like, the 2019, 20 season when he was so good and Anthony Davis was so good, I kind of thought that stretch from, like, the end of December through that Boston injury was, like, the best he played as a Laker. Like, he was so good defensively. People are like, how is this team guarding? It was because he was guarding. He was the one. Like, Anthony Davis missed a bunch of those games with injury. It was. It was LeBron barking out calls, flying around, flying out to closeouts, like, harassing people on switches. If energy is like a filled cup, right, can he pour more energy into the defensive end now? Like, that? If the. If Luka and Austin Reeves are doing more offensively, and that was part of what happened then was like the team had given more offensive responsibility to Austin, Reaves a lot of LeBron to do more on defense. So maybe we get a version of that. Like, I mean he could have like an all time high impact, like 22, 9 and 9 type of season. Like right, like where like the baskets come from, spot up threes, slashing, kick aheads, stuff like that, relatively speaking, like light work offense and you know, and then like flying around using his brain, using like his athleticism and his strength defensively is. Are you going to get 82 games? That I think is a big question. It's a pretty big adjustment. He's proven to be pretty adaptable over the course of his career. This is a big, this is like, this is a big adjustment. This will be the longest, provided he finishes this season. This will be the longest he's played ever on a team where he's not the most important player. And like that's wild. It's a wild thought. Like could he make all NBA? Like of course. I mean he was what, second team last year?
- [37:39]
A
Second team, yeah. Played seven games last year. Sure. Yeah. There's guys early twenties that aren't hitting those numbers. And the other thing about his defense is that his backline help around the basket, like his rim protection the last six, seven years has really been underlooked. That the bubble title that they, that they won was because him and Anthony Davis basically shut down the paint. And I think if, if Ayton can be forceful, which is always the issue with Ayton, can you just provide some defensive force around the basket? They all of a sudden have a pretty decent defense, interior as far as interior defense goes. And if Marcus Smart can do anything up front, all of a sudden the Lakers defense looks much better, you know, right now on paper. And I'm doing a lot of projecting here with can a. And do this stuff, but it definitely looks better than I would have expected coming into this season.
- [38:35]
B
Where does Jerry, where does Jared Vanderbilt, where does Jared Vanderbilt and. And. And Jake Larabia fit into like sort of your like perimeter defensive metrics with this team?
- [38:46]
A
Man, I'll tell you right now, if those guys were one player, they'd be awesome. But Jared Vanderbilt and like just not at. Yeah, if Jared Vanderbilt just not being able to trust him offensively, I think is a huge issue for them because the offense is where they're going to get their easy wins, you know, the regular season wins that they're not going to have to lock down on on defense every night. The way that, that they will come playoff time because they're going to score. And I think Laravia probably winds up getting more run just because he fits better what they're going to do offensively and in Vanderbilt I just think you can replace him with other guys. I think Vanderbilt and you know more about this than I would. But he seems to me like a guy who they probably would try to move, you know, if they were gonna.
- [39:37]
B
Hard, very hard to trade because of the years left on his deal. I think, you know, word I've gotten and it's this time of year but like this is a guy who hasn't been able to play basketball really the last two summers because of injuries, because of foot injuries and surgeries. Had a healthy summer. So he had a good summer. Is moving around. I think like you know, at one time was a pretty good athlete and, and lost some of that with the injuries. Yeah, I mentioned Derek Jones Jr. Like good athletes with versatility who want to get out and run and who can play the baseline play like that. Luca helps those players. Like that is a very specific kind of player that, that can really succeed if you're, if you're willing to cut hard on the baseline like that is there for you. Right. As defenses like pull out towards your shooters if you're going to play that base.
- [40:30]
A
They're not going out in Vanderbilt though. That's the issue.
- [40:33]
B
No, no they're not. It's. The help has to come. Like the help you have to be able to be putting people into help and creating other advantages. And then as soon as you see a defender look out at a shooter above the break like that's when you have to make your baseline cut and you can catch some lobs. He did it a couple times in the playoffs, but he's not the kind of like he wasn't a high impact athlete last year because of the footsteps. And I think, you know, he's also a guy that like this was a team that, that really struggled rebounding the basketball. He's a good rebounder, you know and I think like he, he's a really like if he, if you can count on him for you know, 18 minutes a night and that's a big if. Like that does, like that does change sort of some of your regular season trajectory. The playoff stuff is different. Right. Like it gets really hard to be a one way player in the playoffs. But you know, like I think obviously I would imagine he spends a ton of time in the summer shooting Corner spot up 3 after corner spot up 3 after corner spot up three. Will he ever eventually get it? I don't know, but that's. He's gonna, he's gonna get a lot of chances to shoot it. And when you play with Luca, you gotta shoot him. You just have to shoot him. I think he's an interesting. Yeah, he's gonna get a chance. But I think like those two guys are really interesting as they try to figure out like who is gonna be like. Because Vander can do some of that stuff. He guards, he can guard being guard ones, you know, with his length and stuff like that he uses.
- [42:02]
A
Yeah, he can guard, he guard one through four credibly.
- [42:06]
B
And you him or Laravia do that stuff enough to allow kind of like Austin Reeves to not have to chase those guys around to allow, you know, to allow you to like maybe like move Luca onto a four or something like that. Can you, can he create, can those guys create those types of defensive matchups for you? I don't know. That's going to be to me like one of the biggest questions is like, can they solve the defensive puzzle enough with, with just not being try hard? Because I think last year a lot of their really good defense was from trying hard. Like they played really, really hard. And if you play really, really hard, you're always going to be. It's hard to be a bad defensive team if you play really hard.
- [42:48]
A
Yeah, I mean effort, especially in a regular season for the NBA, it's like half the battle. And I do you mentioned they're rebounding. I think they're going to be a really good rebounding team. I mean their starting lineup is excellent at rebounding. Me, Luca LeBron and Deandre Ayton. That's, that's quite a potter rebounding. We'll see about their offensive rebounding scheme if they have one. You know, we'll. We'll find out. Okay, what's the most realistic outcome? I mean, what is. Is this a championship level team to you?
- [43:19]
B
I. So I asked that question to somebody in the organization yesterday and they said it in the way that if you were going to like throw a floor on like a tier of like, couldn't this team credibly win a championship? The Lakers would be on that floor of the building. Right. If it's a two floor building and it's like, can you win? Can you not win? You're probably on the canyon now. If, if you start, if you start expanding that building to like seven floors of tears, you're not at the top. You're just not like there's just too many roster questions, I think, to put yourself in that tier with Oklahoma City, to put yourself probably in that tier with Denver. I think they're closer to Denver, though, than. Than maybe not. Than people realize, you know, like, a good Golden State team is like, they're kind of in that mix where you feel like you have enough talent, where you could credibly see a pathway. And at the start of the season, Dave, like, that's all you can ask for, right? Like, things are going to happen that. That. That dictate whether or not this team is good enough in terms of, like, player performance, in terms of health and stuff like that. When you enter the season, you just want to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and not lie to yourself about, like, the ability of this team. And if you have. Man, if you have Luka Doncic, if you have LeBron James, if you have Austin Reeves, like, like, on your team, like, you have a chance in any series, like, those players are all good enough. Like, right. Like. Like one through three, like that. That's as good as most teams are going to put out there. And so, yeah, you have a chance. I think the west is good. The. The Van Vliet injury certainly changes, I think, Houston in a real way, but we'll see. I think there's also some silver linings for that team with, like, I'm really excited to see what happens with Amin Thompson, as you know, and as they kind of put the ball in his hands and see if he can. If he can develop even more.
- [45:23]
A
Have the ball in his hands enough. Right. Or a lot.
- [45:26]
B
Yeah, well, that's one way. Right. That's one way to adjust his gravity, you know, is that if he's creating for others and stuff like that, he's not just standing unguarded somewhere. You kind of have to account for a player with his size and athleticism. So, like, I think that's interesting. I mean, I think the spurs are a fascinating team. Like, you know, like, I think they.
- [45:50]
A
Were forgotten about the spurs because Wemby was out so long last year, right?
- [45:55]
B
And there's like, a ticking clock, right, with, like, when is he just gonna, like, destroy everything? Like, like, and. And rule the world and, like, that exists, too. But I think the Lakers are good enough. Sure. I think they're on that tier of, like, if it was two tiers, is there a chance or is there not a chance? I think there's a chance.
- [46:15]
A
So you're saying there's a chance. I will say Dan. Dan Woikie comes on the pod and he says deandre Aiden's the most important player in the league. Sure.
- [46:24]
B
Clip it.
- [46:25]
A
That's it.
- [46:26]
B
Why not?
- [46:26]
A
Deandre Ayden pops. Right. Like if he has a great year, it changes everything for the Lakers. I think that that's. You were dead on about that. Like, I kind of feel the same way. You know what you're going to get from Luka, you know what you're going to hopefully get from LeBron Austin Reeves seems to be a little bit, you know, we kind of know what we're going to get from him. Maybe a leap. Deandre A is the guy. If he can play like, you know.
- [46:52]
B
If, if he's not like I would say if he is an above average starting NBA center.
- [46:57]
A
Yeah.
- [46:58]
B
Let's just set the line there. As, as is he one of the 15 best starting centers in the NBA next year? That answer is yes. And really, like there's really no reason talent wise you shouldn't be. But right. You know, if that answer is yes, that's a, that's a pretty talented. That's a pretty talented top part of your roster. And now it becomes do the role players do enough and their minutes to kind of like carry you in the other stretches of games? Can they, can they cover up, can they cover up their weaknesses enough? But from a talent level that's a pretty good starting five.
- [47:32]
A
Yeah. All right, well, we're going to see what happens. The season is coming up fast. Dan, I know you're ready to work every day.
- [47:38]
B
I was going to say, Dave. No, I was going to say, man, it's been, it's been a busy Laker month. It's been a busy Lakers summer. The team got sold, Dave. That happened.
- [47:50]
A
Yeah.
- [47:51]
B
You know, which will I think ultimately like in the 10 year scheme like have a massive impact on this organization. A lot's happened and I'm lucky enough to get to write about it for this company.
- [48:04]
A
Yeah. Maybe they'll build a new arena in Long beach and then we, we won't have a long commute. That would be great. Right? Clippers missed the opportunity. That's right. Dan Woikie. Go and read him at the Athletic. Guys, thank you for listening. Subscribe to the YouTube. Leave us a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts for Dan woicke. I'm Dave DeFore and this is Ben. The NBA Daily will be back with more team previews and fallout from media day later on this week.