NBA Conference Finals preview

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily: NBA Conference Finals Preview (May 20, 2025)

Hosted by Dave DuFour and Esperaheni Baraheni

Welcome to a comprehensive preview of the NBA Conference Finals from The Athletic NBA Daily. Hosted by Dave DuFour and Esperaheni Baraheni, this episode dives deep into both the Western and Eastern Conference Finals, analyzing key matchups, player performances, and strategic insights that could determine the path to the NBA Finals.

---

Western Conference Finals: Oklahoma City Thunder vs. Minnesota Timberwolves

1. Series Overview The Western Conference Finals feature a compelling matchup between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Minnesota Timberwolves. The Thunder, who dominated the regular season, now face a Timberwolves team that has found its stride in the playoffs after overcoming an early-season identity crisis.

2. Key Players and Strategies

• Anthony Edwards (Timberwolves): Edwards has evolved into a formidable playmaker this postseason, balancing scoring with facilitating his teammates. Esperaheni notes at [05:16], “...this postseason has been about Anthony Edwards' growth as a playmaker.”

• Shaed Gildress Alexander (Thunder): Gildress Alexander's defensive prowess will be crucial in containing Edwards' expanded role.

3. Defensive Matchups The Thunder's defensive strategy focuses on pressuring Edwards to induce turnovers and disrupt his playmaking. At [05:51], Dave states, “The Thunder defense against Anthony Edwards is going to be his ultimate test as a playmaker.” Additionally, Rudy Gobert's presence in the Timberwolves' zone defense adds another layer of challenge for the Thunder.

4. Shooting and Pace

• Three-Point Shooting: Minnesota excels in three-point shooting, averaging a high rate that tests Oklahoma City's defensive resilience. Dave highlights at [09:02], “Minnesota is elite at shooting the ball... they were six and three three-point rate this season.”

• Thunder's Defensive Adaptation: Oklahoma City must adapt their defense to counter Minnesota's perimeter shooting, ensuring that shooters like Jalen Williams are effectively guarded. Esperaheni emphasizes at [09:17], “Chet Holmgren needs to knock down his threes. Lou Dort especially needs to lock down his threes.”

5. Rebounding and Bench Depth While Minnesota is not the strongest rebounding team, their depth on the bench provides strategic advantages. Players like Xander Walker add versatility, posing unique challenges for Oklahoma City's defensive schemes. Conversely, the Thunder boast a disruptive defense but must manage Gobert's offensive rebounding to prevent second-chance points.

6. Overall Insights and Predictions The series is poised to be highly competitive, with both teams showcasing strengths in defense and shooting. Dave concludes at [14:28], “I still feel wolves, yeah. I don't know why I something about them just feels like they've got a little bit of extra juice right now.” The key for Oklahoma City will be maintaining their defensive intensity while capitalizing on their shooting opportunities to counter Minnesota's depth and playmaking.

---

Eastern Conference Finals: New York Knicks vs. Indiana Pacers

1. Series Overview The Eastern Conference Finals pits the New York Knicks against the Indiana Pacers in what promises to be a nostalgic and thrilling series reminiscent of the NBA's classic eras. Madison Square Garden will host Game 1, adding to the series' excitement.

2. Key Players and Strategies

• Jalen Brunson (Knicks): Brunson is identified as the linchpin for the Knicks, with his clutch performances and ability to elevate his game under pressure. Dave asserts at [19:54], “I think out of all of them, I think Jalen Brunson is the best player in this series.”

• Pascal Siakam (Pacers): Siakam's versatility and defensive capabilities have been instrumental for the Pacers, making him a central figure in their strategy.

• Tyrese Haliburton (Pacers): Haliburton's high ceiling and dynamic playmaking add significant depth to Indiana's lineup.

3. Defensive and Offensive Matchups The Knicks rely heavily on Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns, with Brunson taking on key offensive roles and Towns providing both scoring and rebounding. The Pacers, however, boast a more balanced team with multiple offensive weapons and defensive stalwarts like Siakam.

4. Pace and Rebounding Dynamics

• Indiana's Fast-Paced Offense: The Pacers aim to leverage their speed and transition game to outpace the Knicks. Dave notes at [24:06], “Indiana just has more things that they can go to.”

• Knicks' Rebounding Strength: With Mitchell Robinson and Carl Anthony Towns anchoring the boards, the Knicks have the potential to dominate the rebounding battle, creating additional scoring opportunities through offensive rebounds.

5. Bench Depth and Role Players The Pacers' bench, featuring players like Obi Toppin and T.J. McConnell, offers significant versatility and offensive firepower that the Knicks' bench struggles to match. This depth allows Indiana to maintain high performance levels even when their starters rest.

6. Julius Randle Trade Impact The recent trade involving Julius Randle serves as a critical turning point for the Knicks. His performance against the Thunder is pivotal in determining his value and effectiveness in leading New York to their first NBA Finals appearance. Esperaheni discusses at [29:10], “...how Julius Randle perform against OKC.”

7. Overall Insights and Predictions The Knicks' success hinges on Brunson's ability to consistently perform and overcome Indiana's defensive schemes. Conversely, the Pacers' strategic depth and versatile playmaking present a formidable challenge. Dave concludes at [30:56], “I think it's Indiana. We'll see.” The series is expected to be a strategic battle, with both teams maneuvering to exploit each other's weaknesses while maximizing their strengths.

---

Conclusion

The NBA Conference Finals present two enthralling series: Oklahoma City Thunder vs. Minnesota Timberwolves and New York Knicks vs. Indiana Pacers. Both matchups feature a blend of seasoned strategy and emerging talents, setting the stage for intense competition. Key factors such as defensive matchups, shooting efficiency, rebounding prowess, and bench depth will play pivotal roles in determining which teams advance to their first NBA Finals appearances. As Dave DuFour aptly puts it at [30:51], “Jalen Brunson has that iron will that you really need. I do think he's a small guard that could win a championship.”

Stay tuned to The Athletic NBA Daily for ongoing coverage and in-depth analysis as the conference finals unfold.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Dave DuFour [05:16]: “This postseason has been about Anthony Edwards' growth as a playmaker.”
• Esperaheni Baraheni [09:17]: “Chet Holmgren needs to knock down his threes. Lou Dort especially needs to lock down his threes.”
• Dave DuFour [19:54]: “I think out of all of them, I think Jalen Brunson is the best player in this series.”
• Dave DuFour [30:56]: “I think it's Indiana. We'll see.”

---

Disclaimer: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections from the podcast transcript.

Transcript

[Dave Dufour]

This message is brought to you by Apple Card.

[Esperaheni]

Whoa.

[Dave Dufour]

I just found out you can earn up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases made with Apple Card.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah, you can earn unlimited daily cash back with Apple Card on every purchase. No matter where you check out with Apple Pay, you always get daily cash.

[Dave Dufour]

The possibilities are endless.

[Esperaheni]

What's better is that daily cash can automatically grow when you open a high yield savings account through Apple card.

[Dave Dufour]

That's like endless plus one. Visit Apple Co CardCalculator today and discover just how much daily cash you can earn. Subject to credit approval Savings available to Apple Card owners subject to eligibility Savings and Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA member FDIC terms and [e-mail].

[LinkedIn Sales Navigator]

As a salesperson, the search for the right buyer or buying groups can feel like you're endlessly sifting through leads and hoping they're ready to buy. Thankfully, LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just a tool, it's your strategic sales partner. LinkedIn Sales Navigator is a sales intelligence platform that helps professionals effectively prospect, engage high value customers, drive higher revenue and increase sales performance. Sales Navigator helps you target the right buyers, surface key signals such as job changes or which accounts you should prioritize, and shows you hidden allies that you can find those buyers that are most likely to convert. Whether you're looking for new clients or strengthen deepening relationships of current accounts, LinkedIn Sales Navigator has new AI features designed to help sellers find the right people and get right to the right conversations, all at scale. Fueled by LinkedIn's 1 billion-member platform, Sales Navigator gives you the most up to date first party data, enabling you to unlock conversations with the people that matter. Ready to get right to the right conversations? Try LinkedIn Sales Navigator now with a 60 day free trial at LinkedIn.com NBashowTalk that's LinkedIn.com MBashow23 for a 60 day free trial. Terms and conditions apply.

[Little Belly's]

There's no manual for motherhood, and that's okay. At Little Belly's we believe in simple, wholesome goodness. Our delicious organic snacks are created for every age and stage. Made with simple ingredients you can trust. We do what's natural, so you can too. As your little ones grow naturally and play through every major milestone. Check out our full range of organic [e-mail] Little bellies do what's natural.

[Dave Dufour]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily. Coming up, Esperaheni and I look at both of the conference finals and come up with our keys to the series. We've made it to the conference finals. Esper finally did it.

[Esperaheni]

Dave. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Dave Dufour. We are here, NBA Daily Style, actually doing this a little bit different travel day for just about everybody that we would want to talk to today. So we decided, you know what, let's put on our thinking caps and do our own little preview with the keys to the series. Now look, we have watched all of the remaining teams as much as just about anybody. I would say the guys covering these teams are probably about the only ones that have his beat on it. S I feel like got a pretty good sense of who and what they are. Let's start in the west. Since that's going to be the first series, obviously that game is going to be tonight. I cannot believe we're already here to game one of the West.

[Esperaheni]

I bet you the Thunder can't believe it either. You know, the, the fact that it's Tuesday and they got a two day break until they have to face the Minnesota Nuts. Just wild.

[Dave Dufour]

Any recovery from game seven, Right. Like it's just gone. Yeah, but at least they're at home. Right? They didn't have to travel. I'm sure Minnesot, Minnesota had the, you know, had the, the plane all fueled up, ready to go. Where do you want to start with this series? Because I mean it's obviously it's an interesting matchup. The Thunder dominated all year long. Felt like the Timberwolves found their footing, you know, after. After struggling with an identity crisis for most of the season. They found their footing late, but they've been excellent in the playoffs. And I mean, they were sitting at home waiting for the Thunder, which probably feels a little bit different for the Thunder after they swept in the first round. So where do you want to start there?

[Esperaheni]

Oh, man, let's start right at the top. Let's start with Anthony Edwards and Shea Gildress Alexander. I think they will be the main draws of this series for any casual fan. But even if you look at it analytically, if you look at it from like a pure breakdown perspective, this postseason, and we've talked about it a bunch, has been about Anthony Edwards growth as a playmaker. It's like the decision making. He's making easier reads, he's understanding the flow of the game, how to get guys involved. There was this great article about how he was trying to balance the scoring and the playmaking punch. And Chris Finch is like, sometimes him just being a scorer is our best option.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Esperaheni]

And I think that's going to be the ultimate test. The Thunder defense against Anthony Edwards is going to be his ultimate test as a playmaker. Because they are going to pressure him, they are going to force him into tough decisions constantly. There will be openings that evaporate instantly because that's what OKC does on defense. So how does he respond? Because Minnesota can be turnover prone, they can turn the ball over. And this is basically the biggest test Ant has had in these playoffs when it comes to his newfound playmaking ability.

[Dave Dufour]

Right. I mean, look, we, we have pointed to this 12 assist game that he had against the warriors in, in that series. It's kind of like that's something to hang your hat on. I mean, 12 assists in a playoff game and he still, I think he put up 23 in that game. If he is aggressive at attacking the basket and not looking for the foul call, which is, I actually think has affected his finishing around the basket where he's looking for the contact and thinking he's going to get bailed out and he's not finishing through the contact. I think he needs to change that. Right. If you look at the way OKC was able to guard against Denver, part of it is that old Miami Heat thing. They're fouling the entire time.

[Esperaheni]

So the level of the foul, you're not going to get called on every foul. Exactly.

[Dave Dufour]

The level of the foul is higher. And so you just have to adjust to that. And I'd like to see him come out pre adjusted to that because his finishing around the basket has been poor in the playoffs. And it's because of the extra contact. You can hear him yelling hey. On just about every single layup. It's actually incredible that he has the concentration to find the referee and yell at him while also attempting the layup. So, you know, I'd like to see him finish a little bit better. But, you know, you mentioned the turnovers. The Thunder have been the most disruptive defense that we've ever seen. We got to see that on full display in that game seven against Denver. If they can come out like that, I mean, you get into an issue where, wow, Mike Conley's size is a problem because they have all this length on the perimeter and they can pressure him. You do not want the ball to find Rudy Gobert unless he's finishing the play.

[Esperaheni]

Oh, my God. Yeah. He needs to catch it and go right up with it. Right?

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. So I think that this is a series where you know, Julius Randle as that secondary guy as the playmaker. That's the guy I've got circled and which I think the next key not to Jump ahead. But who's going to be the secondary guy for the Thunder? I think it's pretty clear that it's Randall. It's been Randall for. For a while now, especially on the playmaking front. What he was able to do the first couple rounds of the playoffs, but outside of that game seven, we didn't see much out of Jalen Williams so far in the playoffs.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah, yeah. He definitely needs to be the version that he was in game seven for them. Had another good game in game three. I believe it was the one that they lost against Denver in that overtime. So, like, there is a way in which J Dub can attack this team because you look at some of the. Like you said, Conley is one of those targets. Right. You think of Randall, I think putting pressure on Randle defensively and making him work because Randle can hold his own in certain matchups, but just like making him think on the defensive end is actually a big part of getting him tired. Right. So. So for J Dub, it's about forcing the issue a little bit and being that guy who can in situations where SGA is off the floor, where it's the J Dub and chat lineups to take over a game and that, that could swing things really, really well. For okc, the other side is like shooting. You know, Minnesota is elite at shooting the ball. They haven't been elite that much in the playoffs, but in the regular season they were a very, very frequent three point shooting team. I believe they were six and three point rate this season. Right?

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esperaheni]

OKC concedes a lot of threes. Right. They get. They allow teams to shoot a lot of threes because they crowd in, they're tons, they're sending tons of help, etc. Etc. They're like, we will figure out.

[Dave Dufour]

We will.

[Esperaheni]

We will make sure the worst three point shooter gets the ball. Right?

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Esperaheni]

J Dub needs to knock down his threes. Chet Holmgren needs to knock down his threes. Lou Dort especially needs to lock down his threes because they need him to guard Anthony Edwards on the other side. They need these guys to knock down their shots in a major way. And I think more than even J Dub being the second best player or whatnot, it's like, can OKC knock down the shots that will become available to them because of the way Minnesota guards them? You know what I mean?

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. Well, I mean, think about the way that Denver was able to be so disruptive with the zone and I have right now, the way we saw the Thunder solve that zone in game Seven not going to work against Minnesota. Rudy Gobert is excellent, especially in the zone. I mean he's zone and drop. I mean this is where he's the king at. And they also have Jaden McDaniels on the wing. They have Anthony Edwards who is, by the way, no slouch guarding. I just think that they've got a better system to be able to throw the same exact problem at Denver but to be able to hold them off longer. So I do think the shooting in this series, I mean, it's funny to say in a make or miss league and you know, we're talking about basketball playoff series, but the shooting is going to be important.

[Esperaheni]

It is going to be important. Yeah, I look like three point variants in general. Like, I think, I think OKC got a little bit. Lucky is not the right word, but I'm going to use lucky here.

[Dave Dufour]

Shooting luck, we just all.

[Esperaheni]

Shooting luck is a thing. Right. They also got locked lucky in the fact that Denver is not a very, very good shooting team. Like, they're not going to take a lot of threes. They're not going to make a lot of threes. And so Minnesota is the very opposite of this. So it's a good stress test of OKC's defense too, where it's like this team is going to take a lot of threes. Anthony Edwards is going to pull up a lot. Julius Randle is not afraid to take that shot. They've got a lot of shooters and you know, Dante DiVincenzo and Nikhil Alexander, Xander Walker, who specifically like to shoot corner threes. And OKC is willing to concede a lot of corner threes with their defense. So it's, it's a pretty good team to match up against. If you're Minnesota, you're like, we like our chances offensively, defensively, can we get enough stops against this OKC team? And I guess that's my third point. It's like, can they find a way to make life as hard for OKC's offense as Denver just did with its game plan? And to your point, what you just mentioned, like, they have more defensive talent than Denver did. They are a more defensively talented team. They're also a deeper team. And so they can go, Nikhil Alexander.

[Dave Dufour]

Walker can come off the bench and apply pressure to, to his cousin. Right. I mean this is like, this is something that the other teams didn't have. I mean, imagine the trash talk that he's going to be able to throw.

[Esperaheni]

Oh my God.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esperaheni]

Just by the way, knows how he. He will tell you this himself. He knows how to guard Shay. That's exactly what he'll say anytime. You know, Cousins, let me ask you.

[Dave Dufour]

Who has to make the first adjustment in this series? Like, if you just. And we're taking a blind guess here, but who do you think is going to have to. To blink first?

[Esperaheni]

I think it's going to end up being okay. See, and I. I think the adjustment is something that just is very obvious when you watch that we've done series, it's Lou d' Art. And if they're going to decide to start either Case and Wallace or Alex Caruso or play them more frequently. We saw that in game seven as well, where Caruso outplayed Lou Dort and Case and I believe outplayed Lou Dort. Ludo, lou only played 17 minutes. It became apparent in that series. It's like, hey, we're going to let Lou do his thing offensively. And while that time, that can save you sometimes, it saved them in game five. You know, I think that's the adjustment that's kind of like right there. It's obvious.

[Dave Dufour]

I mean, we watch Russo guard Jokic and give him so much trouble. I. I think it gives you an option for Randall. It gives you an option for. For Nas Reed. I mean, you don't really have to guard Rudy like that, but it does give you the option for Rudy. If you. If you want to go small and you say, hey, look, man, just go in there and bang with him. And Rudy is. He is physical, but you can. You can out physical Rudy. And I think Alex Caruso is kind of built for that. This is the most interesting thing in the playoffs for me.

[Esperaheni]

That is very interesting.

[Dave Dufour]

Alex Caruso, I think it. It opens up a whole nother world for them defensively and makes them even more switchable. You know, I just. I don't know. How do you.

[Esperaheni]

I have a question for you. Okay. How do you feel about the go bear factor here? Because obviously that's always a conversation with Minnesota. It's like, how much can they keep Rudy on the floor? I think with okc, they're actually uniquely positioned to be able to do that. Yeah, totally. 100. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

I think that Rudy's size is super important. His offensive rebounding keeps him on the court, on the offensive end. I mean, you think about the Lake and all that, that he actually won through offensive rebounding. Like, you could see a world in which, like, he can have one of those games because, yeah, Isaiah Hardenstein, you know, he can't he can't play every minute and Jet is a little bit small. I do think that, you know, the Thunder have done okay against, against Gobert traditionally, but he is a big, huge body that pretty good at pulling down. Yeah.

[Esperaheni]

But like, that could be an issue for OKC too. It's like if Rudy just dominates on the offensive glass now you have to play the double big lineups. You can't go smaller. You know what I mean?

[Dave Dufour]

So, yeah, and it gets tricky because now you, you go down the list and it's like, okay, who's Chet guarding?

[Esperaheni]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Are you, are you still feeling wolves in six?

[Dave Dufour]

I still feel wolves, yeah. I don't know why I something about them just feels like they've got, they've got a little bit of extra juice right now.

[Esperaheni]

I also wonder if the, the rest factor is a thing here because if you remember last year, okc. Well, actually Dallas got out of a really, really like they got out of that series early, but Minnesota was fighting tooth and nail against Denver. They went to the wire seven games, came out a little flat against Dallas. Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esperaheni]

I wonder if this is an opportunity now for Minnesota to be like, all right, we got our rest. Let's not come out flat against us.

[Dave Dufour]

We're gonna, I mean, luckily we're gonna find out. By the way, I'm super ready to be extremely wrong for going against an amazing Thunder team. Stick around. After the break, we're gonna swing to the Eastern Conference Foreign.

[LinkedIn Sales Navigator]

This message is.

[Dave Dufour]

Brought to you by Apple Card.

[Esperaheni]

Whoa.

[Dave Dufour]

I just found out you can earn up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases made with Apple Card.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah, you can earn unlimited daily cash back with Apple Card on every purchase. No matter where you check out with Apple Pay, you always get daily cash.

[Dave Dufour]

The possibilities are endless.

[Esperaheni]

What's better is that Daily Cash can automatically grow when you open a high yield savings account through Apple Apple Card.

[Dave Dufour]

That's like endless plus one. Visit Apple Co Card calculator today and discover just how much daily cash you can earn. Subject to credit approval Savings available to Apple Card owners Subject to eligibility Savings and Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA member FDIC terms and [e-mail].

[LinkedIn Sales Navigator]

As a salesperson, the search for the right buyer or buying groups can feel like you're endlessly sifting through leads and hoping they're ready to buy. Thankfully, LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just a tool. It's your strategic sales partner. LinkedIn Sales Navigator is a sales intelligence platform that helps professionals effectively prospect engage high value customers, drive higher revenue and increase sales performance. Sales Navigator helps you target the right buyers, surface key signals such as job changes or which accounts you should prioritize and shows you hidden allies so that you can find those buyers that are most likely to convert. Whether you're looking for new clients or strengthening relationships of current accounts, LinkedIn Sales Navigator has new AI features designed to help sellers find the right people and get right to the right conversations, all at scale. Fueled by LinkedIn's 1 billion-member platform, Sales Navigator gives you the most up to date first party data enabling you to unlock conversations with the people that matter. Ready to get right to the right conversations? Try LinkedIn Sales Navigator now with a 60 day free trial at LinkedIn.com NBashow23 that's LinkedIn.com NBashow23 for a 60 day free trial. Terms and conditions apply.

[Little Belly's]

There's no manual for motherhood, and that's okay. At Little Belly's we believe in simple wholesome goodness. Our delicious organic snacks are created for every age and stage. Made with simple ingredients you can trust. We do what's natural. So you can too as your little ones grow naturally and play through every major milestone. Check out our full range of organic [e-mail] Little bellies do what's natural.

[Dave Dufour]

We've gone back to 1995 in the Eastern Conference. Some of the scores were actually 1985, to be honest with you, in the in the playoffs so far, but Knicks Pacers, super exciting. Number one for me because I actually think like aesthetically it feels like the NBA. It's the NBA I grew up with. Also it's kind of cool that Madison Square Garden getting a conference finals, especially Game 1. I think it's going to be pretty hot. And then the Pacers have just been so much fun to watch. I'm actually looking forward to them continuing their run. S I think we got to start with kind of what we just did on the other side where we know the best players in the in the series. It's gonna, you know, Shay or it's Anthony Edwards, one of those two guys likely to be the best player. I think you've got more options in the east for who ultimately could be the best player in this series. I mean obviously Jalen Brunson is Mr. Clutch. You've got Carl Anthony Towns who has the ability, I mean he could put up 30 in seven games that that would not be a problem for him. And then on the Pacer side you've got Pascal Siakam who I think has Been their best player the last couple seasons. But also Tyrese Halliburton, who seems to have this incredibly high ceiling when they.

[Esperaheni]

Need it, also clutch in his own way, right?

[Dave Dufour]

Incredibly clutch. So I think I want to just start there. I mean, who do you think's going to wind up being the best player in this series?

[Esperaheni]

Man, that's a really good question because I think it will change.

[Dave Dufour]

It is.

[Esperaheni]

It's very impossible to change. I think it will change on a game to game basis. And I think whatever fan base is looking at this and saying they know for sure that Brunson or Cat or Halliburton or Siakam are the best players in the series, they're lying to themselves. This thing is going to go back and forth consistently, and it's going to be about which one of these players carves out an advantage for themselves the most. And that's why this series is so exciting. It's like, all right, can Tyrese Halliburton attack Carl Anthony Towns? You know, can Pascal Siakam really take advantage of Cat, maybe in the post or take advantage of the double big lineups and, you know, kind of space them out, if you will. For the, for the Knicks, it's Jalen Brunson. Can he attack Miles Turner? Are the paces going to drop? Are they going to switch and show against Brunson and force him to be a playmaker? Same thing with Cat. It's just the answers are. There's not that many answers. That's the way I would say there's more questions about this series than there are like, certain things that I know. And which is that. That's why it's so exciting. I don't know if I had to answer you right now. I think out of all of them, I think Jalen Brunson is the best player in this series. And I think that's. That's the Knicks advantage overall. It's like you have a guy who can raise to a level that I'm not sure anybody else on the court can.

[Dave Dufour]

But.

[Esperaheni]

But I understand if a Pacers fan says Halliburton, because I have a take here.

[Dave Dufour]

I think, I think the series is. It's going to be about who's the best player, but not necessarily for the reasons that we expect. It's almost going to be which of these guys is going to be the weakest link for his team. Like, right, Jalen Brunson, for instance. Carl Anthony Towns. Those guys, we watched the Celtics when they attacked them and, and really went at him, put him in foul trouble. Jalen Brunson had one of the worst quarters I've ever seen anyone have. You know, and I do think that the Pacers have that ability in the half court, especially with Halliburton. His ability, I mean, his first step is really fast, and I think he gets a lot of hands in the cookie jar that way. And then also the way that they can attack and transition, I do think that that's going to put pressure on the Knicks defense and especially Jalen Brunson, so. And when you look at the other side, can Jalen Brunson isolate on Tyrese Halliburton? Yeah, that's a win for the Knicks every single time.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

You know, I think a loss would be Carl Anthony Town's post ups on Miles Turner. You know, I think if they can stay away from those, that's great. But I, I do think it's going to be quite a bit about which of those four guys winds up being the weakest link. So maybe Pascal Siakam is set up to be, of the group, the most consistent.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah, yeah. Or. Yeah, or I would say maybe even the guy who can swing it, because I know those other guys have certain pressure points that can be kind of poked and prodded at. Siakam is very good defensively, has raised the ceiling of this Pacers team on the defensive end. An incredible roamer off ball for this Pacers team. And so him and Nemhard just like tandem defensively, that work really well for them. So I think there's like less to attack when it comes to Pascal, although maybe you can try to force him to be an outside shooter. And Siakam has had a good year shooting the ball. He's like a plus 43 point shooter. If he continues to do that, this should be a pretty comfortable offensive series for the Indiana Pacers. And now you're looking at. All right, where else are we. Are the Knicks going to attack here? Like, where. Where are they going to, I guess, succumb to the pressure? Right. Like, what's the thing they're gonna going to be willing to concede offensively? Is it Miles Turner pull up or Miles Turner picking Pops? Is it Pascal Siakam picking Pops? Because the Pacers can bury you really, really quickly when it comes to what they do offensively.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, this is the thing about this. The reality of it is that the Knicks have had an arduous road to get to where they're at. I mean, they basically got six guys, maybe seven, and they really only play the five and that starting lineup has not been good. You know, it's been very close for them all.

[Esperaheni]

Double big lineup has been much better for them. Yeah, totally.

[Dave Dufour]

And so, you know, I think that this is a series where for the Knicks, you know, you look at how easy the Pacers come by points and you start to worry about the Knicks. And this brings me to the next key to the series, I think is going to be pace Indiana. They want to get out, they want to run, they even want to attack in that semi transition, early half court offense. So like they're just trying to score. They want to get shots up. They believe in their offense. And for the Knicks, like we talked about ad nauseum all year long, you know, it seems like a lot of Jalen Brunson dribbling, a lot of, you know, Carl Anthony Towns on these post ups where he's probably four feet too far out and, and you know, it just eats up time on the clock. And that's great because their defense can, can lock down, but man, with the Pacers, they just, they run so much.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah, pace is going to be huge because the Knicks also are like, hey, we're going to, we're going to hunt you out in the half court. We're going to try to get Jalen Brunson in some mismatch situations and then boom, that's the way we're going to get our offense going. The Pacers on the other side are just running constantly and you mentioned it like Siakam does a great job of hunting out mismatches early in the clock. So you know, Halliburton will kind of have that quick pass in the half court. Siakam has it in the post and then it's just easy money because he has someone smaller on him. Yeah, that's a huge thing. I think connected to that is rebounding. Because the Pacers aren't necessarily the greatest rebounding team. They don't commit to the offensive glass. They're not because they want to get back in transition and deal with their defensive, you know, generally they want to get back. It's like, okay, the Knicks can really take advantage of that with Mitchell Robinson and Carl Anthony Towns, who I think their rebounding is going to be really, really big in the series, especially Mitchell Robinson. And so it's like, how, how quickly do we go to hack a Mitch? How quickly do the Pacers go to hack a Mitch? Because that might be the, the key here from the Knicks side of things is like, hey, we are going to generate so many more Opportunities for ourselves because we're constantly crashing the offensive class.

[Dave Dufour]

I'll tell you why they shouldn't do Will take away their most potent skill, and that's that transition attack. They pull the ball out of the rim on makes. So if you're putting Mitchell Robinson at the line, Knicks defense gets to set up. This is where that actually works against you. And I actually, I didn't like that the Celtics did it so much because they're another team that should be wanting to attack and transition. Especially a Knicks team that lacks the next key to the series depth. Yeah, the Knicks have none. You know, I mean, we know going In, Mikhail Bridges, OG Anunoby, both those guys got to play at least 40 a night. We know it. Jalen Brunson, 45. Buddy, get ready. I hope you got new shoes. And so I just look at this from the other side, the Pacers. I mean, they'll have games in this series that they win, where their best players play 32 minutes a night because they've got eight guys. Yeah.

[Esperaheni]

I mean, you think of the guys that they have off the bench. Obi Toppin, T.J. mcConnell, Ben Matherin. Right. And that they could go. But they also have, like, a separate identity to them. Like, McConnell is an offense to himself. Like, he just changes the way that the Pacers play when he comes on the floor and the way that Toppin can run these, like, small ball five lineups for them with Siakam, and it's just run and gun and like, it's a joy to watch first and foremost, but it adds a level that I don't think New York has on their bench. Yes, they can go to Deuce McBride. Yes, they can go bigger with Mitchell Robinson, but outside of that, it's like, all right, if Mikhail Bridges is having an off night offensively, or Og Anunoby is having an off off night offensively, and they're not hitting their shots, who are we going to like? What. What are we going to be? And that we saw that in both the Boston series and the Pistons series, where it was like certain nights when Those guys were 2 of 15 instead of 10 of 20. That's basically curtains for you. You're not. Because you know what you're getting out of Brunson, you know where you're getting out of Cat, for the most part. That supplementary group has to show up. They have to. And one of the comebacks, Dave, I'm sure you remember this. Game two versus Boston Celtic. Knicks were down, but it was within distance, it was within reach. Here, But Mikhail hadn't given them anything. Zero points. Right. And in the fourth quarter, Mikhail Bridges rounded up 13 points, all in that quarter. And that's why they won that game. That's why they willed themselves back his shot making. His ability to put pressure on the defense outside of the Brunson Cat. Things that they run is going to be huge in this series because Indiana just has more things that they can go to. Knicks need to have that as well, you know?

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. And we haven't even talked about all the bodies that they can throw at Jalen Brunson. I meant Aaron Neesmith, you know, Halliburton. Even when he. When he wants to, like, with his size and his length, I mean, you know, we see him bother players. It's just. I will say Brunson is a problem.

[Esperaheni]

Averaged 30 and 7 against the Pacers last year, and. And he was just so comfortable getting to his spots. So I don't know if he just likes the matchup, if there's something specific about Nemhard, maybe.

[Dave Dufour]

It's just. He's just a player, too, right. Like, that guy plays every single possession like he's mad at the guy who's guarding him. And it's awesome, Right? I mean, he does play like. It's a little bit of like a basketball Napoleon complex. When you watch the way he plays in the half court. Like, I really. I can at least tip the cap to it because every bucket is hard and he's the smallest guy on the court normally. I mean, that's like Mighty Mouse territory. So I think that at a certain point, you know, that that's not great for your basketball team, though.

[Esperaheni]

This is also. This is actually mostly about both playoff series here. This, the next two weeks is a referendum on the Cat Randall trade, right? Oh, yeah. It's going to be. How does Julius Randle perform against okc? Right. And can he be the deciding factor for them to make it to the NBA Finals? First NBA Finals in franchise history. On the other side, it's. Can Karl Anthony Towns separate himself, establish why he is the second fiddle here in New York, why he was the right guy to trade for all of these things, and why he can be better than he was in the conference finals last year for Minnesota? I. I just think that's fascinating. Final year of the season and we're talking about the big trade, right?

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, it's the last referendum. Unless they meet in the finals, and then that will actually.

[Esperaheni]

And then that's the major referendum.

[Dave Dufour]

That's. That's it. Yeah. But you. You still feeling Pacers? I think a lot of people have come around to. To our way of thinking on this. Again, it's that, yeah, if the, if the Knicks had the sort of depth that the Pacers had, I would feel much better about the Knicks because I do think Jalen Brunson has that. That iron will that you really need. I mean, I do think he's a small guard that could win a championship.

[Esperaheni]

I just don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I think it's Indiana. We'll see. We'll see, though.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. Well, it's gonna be fun. Yeah. You guys, I'm out for the rest of the week. Got a little thing up in New York, so I'm going for that. But S and Xena will take care.

[Esperaheni]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

I'm gonna try to make it to MSG for game one. We'll see if it works out. But that's gonna do it for today's show, folks. For Esperahenny, I'm Dave Dufour, and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us. I'm not saying I'm obsessed with basketball, but my neighbors definitely know when there's a new doc on prime video because I yell at the TV like I'm coaching the team. And with Amazon Prime, I can always count on fast, free delivery when ordering a mini hoop, ankle socks, and three different headbands. Because style matters even when you're missing layups. Prime is my coach, my hype man, and my gear guy all in one. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into. Hey, you know what would make your customer service help desk way better? Dumping it and then switching to intercom.

[LinkedIn Sales Navigator]

But you're not quite ready to make that change.

[Esperaheni]

We get it.

[LinkedIn Sales Navigator]

That's why Fin Fin, the world's leading.

[Esperaheni]

AI customer service agent, is now available.

[LinkedIn Sales Navigator]

On every help desk. Fin can instantly resolve up to 80%.

[Dave Dufour]

Of your tickets, which makes your customers.

[LinkedIn Sales Navigator]

Happier and gets you off the customer service rep. Hiring Treadmill Fin by Intercon, the leading.

[Esperaheni]

Customer service AI agent now available on every help desk.

[Little Belly's]

There's no manual for motherhood, and that's okay. At Little Belly's, we believe in simple, wholesome goodness. Our delicious organic snacks are created for every age and stage, made with simple ingredients you can trust. We do what's natural, so you can, too, as your little ones grow naturally and play through every major milestone. Check out our full range of organic snacks at Littlebellies com little bellies do what's natural.