NBA Cup Final Preview

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily – NBA Cup Final Preview (Dec 16, 2025)

Overview

In this special episode of The Athletic NBA Daily, Dave DuFour, Esfandiar Baraheni, and Ben are joined by Knicks beat writer James Edwards (later replaced by Jared Weiss) for a live discussion in Las Vegas, previewing the Emirates NBA Cup Final: New York Knicks vs. San Antonio Spurs. The podcast dives into the NBA Cup’s place in the league, the changes in the Knicks, the rise of the powerhouse Spurs, and what’s at stake for both franchises in this high-profile, midseason title match.

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Main Discussion Sections

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1. The NBA Cup: Value, Propaganda, and Scheduling Headaches

Key Points:

• Mixed Feelings on the Cup:
  • James Edwards expresses skepticism about the NBA Cup, describing it as "propaganda" responding to regular season shortcomings.
    • "My biggest issue with the cup is the propaganda around it." – James Edwards [02:43]
    • He argues: If the league thinks its regular season is lacking, it should address that directly (e.g., shortening the season).
  • Dave and Ben see positive aspects, arguing the Cup injects energy and stakes reminiscent of NCAA’s March Madness.
    • "Basketball at its best is a single elimination tournament." – Dave DuFour [04:01]
    • Ben adds fun and spectacle matter—sometimes "good propaganda is good." [27:32]

Scheduling Problems:

• The Cup has exacerbated travel for teams, notably the Knicks’ lengthy itinerary (Abu Dhabi, Vegas, Indy, NY in short order).
  • "I can't imagine a team has ever traveled as much..." – James Edwards [08:54]
• Next year, only the final will be in Vegas; hosts argue finals should be at a neutral, central location or at one of the team’s arenas for better fan access. [10:11]

Notable Quotes:

• "If your regular season isn't what you want it to be, let's fix it... shorten the season." – James Edwards [03:11]
• "It's disrespectful to the game I love... There are good games every night." – James Edwards [06:43]
• "Tradition has to start somewhere." – Ben [30:17]

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2. Knick’s Evolution: Identity, Offense, and Finals Readiness

Key Changes from Last Year:

• Coaching switch: From Tom Thibodeau to Mike Brown; subtle changes, more offensive movement, higher 3-point volume, better role fits for OG Anunoby, Mikal Bridges, Josh Hart.
  • "There's not much of a structural difference outside of shooting more threes, but they're making so many more shots." – Dave DuFour [12:12]
• Emphasis on spacing, quicker decisions, and increased “read and react” actions (e.g., DHO, cutting, off-ball movement).
  • "Jalen’s a tremendous shooter...he’s shooting more catch and shoot 3s." – James Edwards [14:53]
• Star development: Jalen Brunson top-5 scorer ("pound-for-pound"), Josh Hart’s shooting improvement (with the help of a dedicated shooting coach), Bridges’s “triple hitch” practice shot.

Potential Weaknesses:

• Concerns about the Knicks’ lack of “paint touch” creators vs. switchable, elite defenses.
  • "Their biggest hole on offense is they don’t have enough guys who can break their man down in the halfcourt." – James Edwards [17:52]

Measure Game:

• Hosts and James frame this as a “measuring stick” vs. elite competition—the Knicks have mostly beaten up on lower-tier East teams.
  • "This is a measuring stick game for the Knicks to see where they're at. Way more than for the Spurs." – Dave DuFour [18:45]
• If the Knicks lose badly, it could accelerate front-office considerations for “the big trade,” potentially going all-in for a superstar. [21:01]

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3. Spurs’ Breakthrough: Wemby’s Impact and a Unique Contender

San Antonio’s Rise:

• The Spurs’ leap from hopeful play-in team to bona fide title contender is credited to:
  • Victor Wembanyama’s (Wemby’s) supernova effect—defensively and offensively.
  • Three-guard penetration, with Wemby functioning as a "perimeter big," creating a unique spatial dynamic.
  • Adapting play style sans-Wemby during his absence, revealing new capabilities and unlocking offensive pace and confidence.
    • "His injury was a blessing in disguise for this team..." – Ben [31:44]
• Defensive scheme: High ball pressure, aggressive point-of-attack guards, Wemby’s rim coverage enables more mistakes.
  • "He (Wemby) eliminates your margin for error... a 7-foot-5 margin for error." – Ben [34:25]
• The team’s anti-spacing tendency—guards attack rim, Wemby spreads floor—is seen as the next trend cycle in NBA strategy. [33:06]

Star Power & Maturity:

• Wemby emerging as the league’s next face, charismatic on and off the court, showing more outward leadership and competitiveness.
  • "Now it's really starting to show (his personality) ... now that they're winning, we're seeing his competitive nature come out." – Ben [36:15]
• Steph Castle’s leap as a “Dwyane Wade-esque” guard, both as a scorer and with poise for his age.
  • "His patience and deceleration, his role in the game, is meshing into the overwhelming talent." – Ben [42:29]

Memorable Moments/Quotes:

• "We’re at a game, and over time it becomes the Cup—tradition builds." – Ben [30:22]
• "He (Wemby) is as insightful as he is entertaining... the complete package." – Ben [36:35]
• Wemby's in-game impact: "Came in, two offensive rebounds, a defensive rebound, a putback, and an assist in his first 40 seconds." – Dave DuFour [40:18]

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4. Looking Ahead: Stakes, Predictions & the Final’s Broader Meaning

What’s at Stake:

• For the Knicks: Proof of concept for their rebuild, pressure not to fall into the “almost team” trap that has haunted past contenders.
  • "You have to hold yourself to that standard... you got to be careful you're not the almost team." – Esfandiar [21:36]
• For the Spurs: Possibility to announce themselves as title favorites in the West, tradition-building for a young dynasty.

Predictions:

• Ben leans Spurs, citing their athleticism, shooting, and Wemby’s continual growth:
  • "If the Spurs win, it’s because they got up 40 threes and hit 15 or 16." [44:01]
• Dave notes pressure on the Knicks to prove their mettle:
  • "They should come into this game and try to crush the Spurs if they can." [45:25]
• General consensus: The matchup is much closer than preseason expectations.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the NBA Cup’s Purpose:
  "My biggest issue... is the propaganda around it." – James Edwards [02:43]
  "Tradition has to start at some point." – Ben [30:17]
• On Knick's Offense:
  "Not much structural difference outside of shooting more threes, but they're making so many more shots." – Dave DuFour [12:12]
  "Jalen off the ball... is one of the best shooters in the NBA." – James Edwards [14:54]
• On the Spurs’ Unique Style:
  "We're in an anti-spacing movement...life is cyclical." – Ben [33:06]
  "This team is just so unique...Wemby is like Shaq and Steph Curry had a baby." – Dave DuFour [34:03]
• On Wemby’s Impact:
  "He eliminates your margin for error... a 7-foot-5 margin for error." – Ben [34:25]
  "He's gonna wind up being better than everyone, maybe ever." – Dave DuFour [36:31]
• Cup Stakes:
  "This (Cup) is a measuring stick game for the Knicks." – Dave DuFour [18:45]
  "Can the Knicks hang with the Spurs?" – Dave DuFour [45:45]

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Highlights by Timestamp

• [02:23] – Start of substantive Cup conversation, issues with perception and schedule
• [04:01, 04:34] – Proposals for season/cup restructuring
• [11:10] – Knicks’ team changes and what’s new under Mike Brown
• [17:52] – Knicks' offensive holes vs. great defenses
• [27:31] – Jared Weiss joins; defending the Cup’s existence and entertainment value
• [31:44] – Spurs' evolutionary leap, Wemby’s impact, and future trajectory
• [34:25] – Spurs' defense: Wemby's unique influence and margin for error
• [36:15] – Wemby’s superstar aura, personality shift, and leadership
• [42:05] – Steph Castle’s emergence and importance
• [44:01] – Final game predictions, keys to victory for both teams

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Summary Takeaway for Non-Listeners

This episode is an in-depth, passionate preview of the NBA Cup Final, balancing skepticism and appreciation for the Cup’s legitimacy, while providing expert breakdowns on two of the league’s most exciting teams. The discussion is rich with tactical insights, big-picture stakes, and personality (especially in the hosts’ bickering and banter). If you care about how new traditions are born—and want to know why the Knicks-Spurs result will echo through the season—this recap gives you all the context, analysis, and personality of the pod, minus the ads.

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Listen for:

• Honest, sometimes heated takes on the NBA Cup’s role
• Deep dives into the Knicks’ subtle evolution and Spurs’ dynamism
• The sense that, like it or not, the NBA Cup may become a real part of NBA history starting tonight

Transcript

[Dave DeFore]

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[Andrew Schlecht]

Hey, Andrew Schlecht here. This Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern it's the Emirates NBA Cup Championship game on Prime. This year's quest for the cup has delivered incredible moments and jaw dropping highlights and they've been building toward this, the final two teams. I am so pumped for the NBA cup here at the NBA Daily. We will be there live in person ready to take in the cup, ready to respect the cup. And what's been really fun is that the players have been very motivated this year to win this thing and they have. Multiple teams have expressed this and you can see it through the competition and I cannot wait to see it live in Las Vegas. The Emirates NBA Cup Championship game live from Las Vegas, Tuesday night at 8:30 Eastern on Prime Eastern. And if you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. The Emirates NBA Cup Championship game this Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details. Foreign.

[Dave DeFore]

Everybody welcome to the NBA daily. I'm Dave DeFore here with Esperaheny. We're joined by James Edwards who covers the Knicks. We're live in Vegas. NBA Cup Championship between the Knicks and Spurs tonight.

[Esperaheny]

Yes, the ultimate respect the cup moment.

[Dave DeFore]

That's right, you respect the Cup. James.

[James Edwards]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Do you respect the cup?

[James Edwards]

I don't. Because. Let me, let me, let me get this out. My biggest issue with the cup is the propaganda around it.

[Ben]

Right.

[James Edwards]

I don't know if you guys get these tweets or see these tweets as a, as a somebody that covers a team and routinely is like, I think this is, this is pointless. I see these tweets. It's the propaganda of the league admitting that their regular season product in their eyes isn't good enough. So we have to create this whole thing. That's an issue to me. Like you shouldn't. If your regular season isn't what you want it to be, then let's fix it in a way that, let's shorten the season.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay. But we know the reasons why, like no one wants to make less money.

[James Edwards]

Right. Okay.

[Dave DeFore]

And so you've got this number of games that you got, although that may change because the regional networks are gonna go away and. Right. So you're not selling the same packages.

[Esperaheny]

They're not going to reduce 82 wells though.

[James Edwards]

But they should.

[Dave DeFore]

I, I, I agree with you. Number one, 82 game season. Like we talk about this all the time. The value of each game is so low. This is what, you know, college football, great thing where one bad week. Yeah. And you know, I, I do think like the NBA misses out on that. It's one of the reasons why the cup to me is good because I, Basketball at its best is single elimination tournament. Yeah. The March Madness. And so you get a little bit of that here.

[Ben]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

I would actually. And, and I got an idea here, Cook. It's not to fix the cup. I actually think the cup is good. It's the regular season that's the problem.

[James Edwards]

Okay. From what standpoint? It's just too long.

[Dave DeFore]

It's too long.

[James Edwards]

Okay.

[Dave DeFore]

And it's, and we, we talk all the time about how many games, how many minutes all these guys have to play. Yeah. So what if you do reduce the season to 58 games? Let's say it's a home and away for everybody. It's a balanced schedule, which we talk about often. I wouldn't get rid of conferences because I actually think it feels like sports.

[Esperaheny]

To have living in a utopia.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[James Edwards]

Let's get rid of divisions yesterday though.

[Dave DeFore]

Division's fine, but conferences, whatever. But to me, you use the NBA cup as a preseason warm up tournament and you do it in a way that actually encourages teams to play all of their guys, if not at least 10, 25 minute player limits per guy. Three games a week, expand the elimination tournament part of it out. Yeah, I agree with that. And then you have your championship game. Maybe you do it in neutral site, I don't know. But you have your championship game and then, you know, you do that a week before Christmas. Yeah. And then you kick off the regular season at Christmas with the 58 game schedule. Number one, guys have time to get totally conditioned for the arduous actual regular.

[Ben]

I like this idea.

[James Edwards]

It's a great idea.

[Dave DeFore]

It's a great way to introduce rookies. You know, you get to build up.

[Ben]

These guys for the season.

[James Edwards]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

G League does this already.

[Ben]

Right.

[Esperaheny]

They have their tip off tournament which is like a month, a month and a half of the season. And then exactly like the NBA cup, they go to Orlando, they play a showcase tournament.

[Dave DeFore]

Right, right.

[Esperaheny]

Finals, semifinals, etc, and that's how they do their tournament. And it starts the season. Christmas is when the season starts.

[Dave DeFore]

And that fixes two birds, one stone. Right? Like, because it's not. You're.

[Esperaheny]

I don't ever do this, by the way.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, of course not, because. But you're actually able to serve the cup and tournament part, which is fun. Yeah. And then you, you get a. Be a better regular season, in my opinion.

[James Edwards]

I, I like this a lot. I think that's, that's a really good take. I think the season needs to be shortened. The other thing that I have an issue with is again, I keep bringing up the word propaganda. There's this, there's this notion that like the league itself is admitting, which isn't true, that we're. The regular season needed a little bit.

[Esperaheny]

More of importance, that guys try harder.

[James Edwards]

That's just not true. Guys don't try, like guys don't try harder. And maybe at this stage because they made it to the end, but like leading up to this, guys play hard every single night that I told you guys before, like the Nixon Magic played two better games in the semi finals the other night, which wasn't even that, like you said, Dave wasn't even that good of a game.

[Dave DeFore]

Nobody played defense was any good for.

[James Edwards]

A quarter and a half.

[Dave DeFore]

It seemed like a game where the, the teams were like, if we win, we win.

[James Edwards]

Yeah. Awesome.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[James Edwards]

Yeah. We're here already. We won money already.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[James Edwards]

But that's my thing. Like, it's just so disrespectful to the game. I love. Like there are really good games on Tuesday night in the middle of November. There's really good games on Wednesday night in the middle of December. Yeah, you, you're not. You don't need to say that act like this when the court's colored that the players play harder. That's not true.

[Esperaheny]

Especially for like a team like the Knicks that has gone to the conference finals at this point and they're pretty locked into their group. They've had playoff experience like this.

[James Edwards]

You can't fake that intensity, right?

[Ben]

Yeah, you can't fake that.

[Esperaheny]

This doesn't add anything to that.

[Dave DeFore]

And OKC San Antonio was going to be an intense game no matter what. The next one on the 23rd of December is going to be intense. And Christmas and Christmas Day is going to be intense. Those teams are intense.

[James Edwards]

The Knicks, Raptors for the winner to go to veg Vegas wasn't intense, right?

[Esperaheny]

Unfortunately not.

[James Edwards]

Well, the rappers haven't played, right? The rappers haven't played well. That's my point. It's like so people pick and choose because it's a good game. I told you they play harder, right?

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[James Edwards]

It's the NBA. There's good games every night.

[Esperaheny]

Let me ask you, this happen to.

[James Edwards]

Be a cup game this night.

[Esperaheny]

What do you think about the schedule aspect of it? Because you talked about Knicks, Raptors. Raptors now had two games in 10 days after they got eliminated. They basically won by losing.

[James Edwards]

Yes.

[Esperaheny]

How do you feel about that aspect of the NBA Cup?

[James Edwards]

So that's something I'm actually. I've been like intertwining throughout my Knicks talk as of late because obviously I've been on the road with the Knicks. This trip started in Toronto. They came to Vegas. They had to be out here Thursday night for media on Friday so that they went home for a half a day. I just came straight to Vegas. And then after this, now that they've made the final, whether they win or lose, it doesn't matter. They have to play in Indy on Thursday and then they play in New York on Friday. So we're talking. Yeah. So not only do they play 83 regular season games, this team went to Abu Dhabi in the preseason. I don't know how to check this, but I can't imagine that at this point has will a team have ever. I can't imagine a team has ever traveled as much because the cup is new. Right. So they've had to do two cross country flights.

[Esperaheny]

Right?

[James Edwards]

Well, they'll have to do two. They went to Abu Dhabi and that automatically boosts.

[Ben]

Yeah, right.

[James Edwards]

Because I think they're in back to Abu Dhabi. I think NBA teams average like 40000 miles a season. I think Abu Dhabi there and back is almost 40, 000 or close to it. Or maybe a quarter of four. Maybe.

[Dave DeFore]

40, 000 is like a couple times.

[James Edwards]

It's been a long 10 days.

[Dave DeFore]

Do it like Superman and go in the opposite direction. You get that day back. Right.

[James Edwards]

Well, my point is a quarter of that was done for the Knicks in a week in the preseason.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[James Edwards]

So the travel is insane. Like, yeah, if you're the Raptors or any other team that's not here, one of the four teams that wasn't here, like, you're probably looking at this like.

[Dave DeFore]

You get a little bit of.

[James Edwards]

Yeah, there's a before, but the slump.

[Esperaheny]

The slump after getting.

[James Edwards]

Yeah, right.

[Esperaheny]

You get that hit.

[Dave DeFore]

We're going to be watching for this. I mean, you know, the teams coming out of the championship game, we've seen them kind of have a swoon right after. Part of it also could just be that there is a little bit of intensity in a single elim elimination game. Regardless of whether it means more or not.

[James Edwards]

You're still.

[Dave DeFore]

They're playing for money. They're here. So maybe there's some of that. I don't know. But I think the scheduling part of this, like, it's got to. It's got to change. And one big change that they're going to make next year is only the final will be in Vegas. That's going to be. I think that's going to be better. That game, if it's. If it's in Orlando or in msg.

[Esperaheny]

That it's just one.

[James Edwards]

Yeah. But it shouldn't be here. I agree that that's unfair.

[Dave DeFore]

It should be a home game for them.

[James Edwards]

It should be in the middle of the country.

[Esperaheny]

But just put it in like.

[James Edwards]

Or Chicago, Oklahoma City. Chicago. Oklahoma City. What about like, I wouldn't mind going to Michigan like St. Louis for no reason whatsoever.

[Dave DeFore]

Could you do St. Louis?

[James Edwards]

You could do.

[Dave DeFore]

You could do Omaha, Nebraska.

[James Edwards]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Basketball town.

[Ben]

Why.

[James Edwards]

Why did the. The Nicks and Magic have to fly across the country? San Antonio and Oklahoma City can take a bus.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, it's logistics.

[Ben]

Right.

[James Edwards]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

But.

[James Edwards]

Right. Oh, it's not Andrew Schlect from outside. Well, but it should be some. It's regardless. It should be in the middle of the country.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[James Edwards]

Like, that's. The league is so is talking about like travel and health. So you're making. Yeah. Making two teams fly from the bottom part of the country across and from the tip one side to the other almost. And it's like.

[Ben]

Yeah, come on.

[James Edwards]

Well, there's. There's a Lot of places in the middle.

[Ben]

All right.

[Dave DeFore]

Should we talk about the Knicks a little bit?

[James Edwards]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Okay. We've basically arrived at the point where we feel like they're the best team in the East. We also recently talked about this with you. The front runner to. To make it, I think, out of the east come playoff time. Yeah. What do you feel is different about this team from last year with Tom Thibodeau and now to Mike Brown? Like, what's been the biggest change for this season?

[James Edwards]

I think there's. So. It's really weird because I actually wrote this today. I talked to four or five NBA head coaches, what they think the difference is between the two teams. And if you look at the pace, the pace isn't any different. If you look at paint touches, it's not any different. You look at offensive rating, it's not any different. They were top five with tibs or top five with Mike. They were top 15 in defense at this point with tibs or top 15 with Mike. I do think there is a little bit more movement. I don't. Even though they're not playing faster, it feels like there is more movement.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[James Edwards]

Even though I do think lately they reverted back to, like, more Brunson. Cat pick and roll and listen, they're two of the best offensive players in the world, I think. And I wrote this. Jalen's the best scorer. Pound for pound basketball, it's very divisive, but I think he's top five, so it's. I think it's worth having.

[Esperaheny]

I would probably put Shea above him, but totally fine.

[James Edwards]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Pound for pound, though. I mean.

[James Edwards]

Yeah, that's inch for inch.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

I mean, I think that's what we think about.

[James Edwards]

Right.

[Ben]

I mean.

[James Edwards]

Yeah. So they're shooting a lot of threes, which is the biggest difference. They're shooting a lot of threes, and they're playing, like, this gap help defense, where guys like OG and Mikhail are a little. Or it suits their strengths a little bit more. And, I mean, I think, too, Josh Hart shooting the three ball the way he does allows that starting five to work in a way that it didn't work last year.

[Dave DeFore]

What happened there? Did he get a secret surgery that we just didn't know?

[Esperaheny]

His finger is still.

[James Edwards]

It's mangled.

[Dave DeFore]

This makes no sense. Yeah, because he was. I mean, it was awful.

[James Edwards]

It's still. Yeah, he said. He said it does feel better.

[Dave DeFore]

He.

[Esperaheny]

His fingers look like.

[Dave DeFore]

And he can't miss right now.

[James Edwards]

It's. Yeah. He. They. A shooting coach, which. It was his request. Wrote that if you want to check that out. I wrote that recently. He talk. He. Yeah, he. First conversation he had with Mike Brown, he's like, I want a shooting coach, somebody who's going to work with us every single day.

[Dave DeFore]

So then how did Mikhail Bridges wind up with this triple hitch that he's got? And I know he's making shots, but when you watch him shoot like we.

[Esperaheny]

Were watching, I feel like that's a practice thing.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Okay.

[Dave DeFore]

Might be.

[James Edwards]

It is in practice. Yeah. So he does shoot with the hitch and PR when he's warming up, but it goes away in the game. It is very. But that was the issue.

[Dave DeFore]

So he's doing an intentional thing there. Wait, is there a reason for that?

[Esperaheny]

Did he say anything?

[James Edwards]

I. He's talked. I forget he's talked about before, but he'd shot with the hitch last year, and he couldn't make anything above the break. Yeah, but the. The hitch goes away when the game starts. I think maybe it's. For him, it's just like, making sure the mechanics are good and, like, going through, like, almost. I think of it like kind of like a lever. Like you're like a stick shift kind of things. But, yeah, definitely, that is a thing. Like when. When we got back this year, I was like, oh, the hitch looks still there, but as soon as you start playing, you don't really. You don't really see it.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I mean, he's shooting the lights out.

[James Edwards]

Yeah, he is. Same with O.

[Dave DeFore]

That also helps. Mean their offense looks.

[Ben]

It's.

[Dave DeFore]

There is not much of a structural difference outside of shooting more threes, but they're making so many more shots.

[Esperaheny]

I think there's one. And I'm curious to see if this actually tracks with the data.

[James Edwards]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Passing, like the.

[James Edwards]

The.

[Esperaheny]

The amount of passes they do per possession in the half court feels a little bit more.

[James Edwards]

It does. I. I don't think it's that much different. I have to look. I'll have to. I'll check that because I did check it the other day, but I can't remember. I don't think it was enough for me to include it in the story.

[Dave DeFore]

Are they cutting more?

[James Edwards]

No, that's the other thing. They're not cutting more. I just think it's early movements, like a lot of dhos. Jalen, he's dribbling. I did these stats. He's dribbling a second less than he. Like when he has the ball. I think he's dribbling like 4.8 seconds.

[Ben]

Right.

[Esperaheny]

So he's moving off it a little.

[James Edwards]

Yeah. And he's less dribbles per time he has the ball. Right. He's playing a little bit more off ball. And that's another thing too. I think we forget like we just. When we talk about this guy's a great scorer, like we don't necessarily like oh, but he's also a tremendous shooter. Like Jalen off the ball like he's shooting three catch and shoot threes per game. He only shot 1.9 last year. He's one of the best shooters in the NBA. Like that helps when you can get a guy who can shoot that well more shots where it's not off the dribble too. So that's. That's been beneficial.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, and again like the way that this team is set up, you know, you have just enough other ball handling Cat can handle and is a pretty good passer. And then what Mike Brown's offense did does actually change is that they run so much stuff that's coming off the elbow. Yeah, like handoff stuff, but also the cuts off the elbow, split actions and stuff. Yeah, that was something that just wasn't there last year. It was like high ball screen or nothing.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, I agree. It's not too different from last year. It's just a couple of different wrinkles.

[Dave DeFore]

They're doing more read and react a.

[Esperaheny]

Little bit more variety. Yeah, just a little bit to make it more dynamic than it was last year.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Two additional potential assists this season.

[Ben]

Really.

[James Edwards]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So I think it's just a combination of. I think they're moving the ball side to side more like with the dhos. Like so that's one thing Mike talked about. He said they hadn't put in plays until maybe like three days before the start of season. And there's a lot of read and react stuff and I think a lot of that is they're going to put in plays. They know what they're going to run. It's going to look similar. But when that stuff doesn't work, the guys know what they're supposed to do. They know where to relocate the flow to it. Yeah, I think that's just the biggest thing. I. I don't think they're playing faster statistically they're not. But I do think if you wanted to say that they're. It feels like they're moving more if that makes sense. Like I, I think you can kind of tally that up under playing faster. Like there's in the half court. It feels like they're just moving a Little bit more and maybe not as of late because I do think they have reverted back to some of the last year's ways. But again, it's not like last year's team was chop liver.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[James Edwards]

Right.

[Esperaheny]

How do you, how do you think they match up against the Spurs? Because obviously it would have been cool to see them against the Thunder. Actual finals preview. I don't know how you feel about the spurs, but yeah, not everybody's assuming they're going to be a finals team.

[Dave DeFore]

Maybe Davis, they've been really good. I can't assume it.

[Esperaheny]

I feel like matchup wise defensively it's pretty similar though because they got a lot of wings that can hard obviously Wemby in the backline, how do they match up?

[James Edwards]

So I think there's a couple things here that I'm fascinated to see the Knicks over since I say we hit the 15 game mark. Haven't really played a great team. Yeah, they have yet to play a top five team in the West. They haven't played any of those teams and they have yet to play Detroit. Orlando's a good team that they've blasted or they didn't blast but they've beat. They're two and two against them on the season. They haven't. I said, yeah, they haven't played Detroit yet. Boston blasted them the other day. They've beaten Toronto who is again, they've slipped and they've been injuries. So for sure this is probably the best team that they have faced all season.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[James Edwards]

Like even just record wise. And now that Wemby's back, this is my. I'm curious to see with them. San Antonio has so many good on ball defenders and playmakers and I think one thing with the Knicks is their biggest hole on offense is they don't have enough guys who in the half court I think can like break their guy down off the dribble and get into the paint and kick out. And that's why I think you see struggles with the offense when they're playing against aggressive, switchable teams and that was an issue last year and I think.

[Esperaheny]

That still ends up.

[James Edwards]

It'll show itself this year. They just haven't really played those, those type of like Miami.

[Dave DeFore]

Oh, it's gonna show itself tonight. Yeah, the Spurs, I mean the, the that guard rotation, the way that they can guard. Yes. Obviously Wemby, yeah. Is a whole different thing.

[Esperaheny]

Also on the other side like teams are still going to go at Brunson, still going to go at Cat.

[James Edwards]

Even though spurs have guys who can get into the paint.

[Dave DeFore]

They got three guards that get two feet in the paint.

[Ben]

Yep.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. This is, to me, the, the Knicks is. This is a measuring stick game for the Knicks to see where they're at. Yeah. Way more than it is for the spurs because our expectations of the spurs have already been outstripped. And there's this freedom that the spurs are allowed to play with in a game like this. And I wonder, like, what does that, like, look like? This game is a throwaway for both teams.

[James Edwards]

Right.

[Dave DeFore]

They, of course, want to win because you, you know, Competitive. Yeah. But is there a thing where maybe the Knicks might put too much pressure on themselves to win this game? Like, who. Who are you picking? Who are you picking?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Do they raise the banner at msc? What's going on?

[Dave DeFore]

They got to put it up.

[James Edwards]

Yeah, I think it's. I. Yeah, I think. Didn't the league make the Lakers put it?

[Esperaheny]

Well, they did make them.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

No, they're definitely gonna put it.

[Ben]

Yeah, they have.

[James Edwards]

They haven't won anything in a while, so I definitely think that. No, I'm not trying to be fun.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Why not?

[James Edwards]

It's hard to say because I haven't seen the Knicks. They've. Like, the offense looks amazing. Yeah, a lot. But I haven't. I just haven't seen them play against a team like this yet. Like a legitimate title contending level team.

[Dave DeFore]

See this also, Titus.

[Esperaheny]

Title contending.

[James Edwards]

We're here already. But listen, if we put the spurs in the East, I, I think we'd.

[Esperaheny]

All say that they'd be a top three team in the East.

[Ben]

Right.

[James Edwards]

So I think it's, I think it's fair to say that for them, their issue is that they go against. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ben]

The best.

[James Edwards]

So I, I don't know who's going to win. I hate to use that cop out answer, but I definitely think that what's, what's fascinating to me, and I'll probably end up writing this if, if the Knicks were to lose and kind of just how not unfortunate it is, but the Knicks finally get back to like this place of relevancy and where they're able to compete potentially for a title. And then over there in the west, there's maybe the greatest team we've ever seen and then maybe the greatest player we've ever seen.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[James Edwards]

And it's like.

[Esperaheny]

And oh, by the way, like, Cooper flag is there too.

[James Edwards]

Yeah, it's like, whatever, like this season. And again, the cup isn't anywhere of the equivalency of the NBA Finals, but like this Season for the Knicks almost feels like it's now or it might not happen.

[Dave DeFore]

That's. I think a lot of teams feel that way. Yeah. Because even the Thunder, or if it.

[James Edwards]

Doesn'T happen and then you may, then you got to consider making the. The big trade.

[Esperaheny]

The big Giannis, like, if I were.

[James Edwards]

The next, I'm not doing it in season. They've shown enough that they can make it to the finals potentially with the group that they have now. If they get blasted, or maybe even if they get blasted against the spurs, maybe that changes how the front office thinks. It's like, okay, we're here to win championships, not get to the finals. And if we just can't compete with the top, the fifth best team in the west, like, is it going to be a long night, long year, long few years for us in that realm? So it's good to always be in the conversation. But when you fire Tibbs and publicly say, like, we're here to win championships.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[James Edwards]

You have to hold yourself to that standard. There's a.

[Esperaheny]

There's a difference. If you look at like every era of basketball, there's the Houston Rockets with James Harden, the almost team. Right. In the, in the 90s it was Jordan Drexler, Portland Trailblazers, teams, right. There's always an almost team. For the Knicks, it's like you got to be careful you're not the almost team.

[James Edwards]

Yeah, that's a great point. Great point. I mean, it's just tough.

[Dave DeFore]

Like again, the five best teams in basketball, they're all in the West. So, you know, how do you even.

[Esperaheny]

Can you guys imagine if this game was in msg, Wemby versus the Knicks in MSG for the Finals, for the NBA Cup? That. That's the way it should have been.

[James Edwards]

I agree. Yeah.

[Ben]

This is for you could have stayed.

[Esperaheny]

Home too, you know.

[James Edwards]

I mean. Yeah, this, this is. But it's for the fans, right? Like.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Edwards]

So why are we depriving? Like you're gonna ask fans to drive, to fly across the country or whatever to. To take in sick days. Like, I don't know. It's propaganda, man.

[Dave DeFore]

We respect the cup, but.

[James Edwards]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Yes. But it's valid to switch.

[Ben]

This is.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, I agree. James Edwards. Thanks, man. I know you gotta get out of here.

[James Edwards]

It's always great to see you guys.

[Dave DeFore]

Go and read them at the Athletic. Yeah. Always a pleasure.

[James Edwards]

Love you guys.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Hey, Andrew Schlecht here. This Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern, it's the Emirates NBA cup championship game on Prime. This year's quest for the cup has delivered incredible moments and jaw dropping highlights and they've been building toward this. The final two teams. I am so pumped for the NBA cup here at the NBA Daily. We will be there live in person ready to take in the cup, ready to respect the cup. And what's been really fun is that the players have been very motivated this year to win this thing and they have. Multiple teams have expressed this and you can see it through the competition and I cannot wait to see it live in Las Vegas. The Emirates NBA Cup Championship Game live from Las Vegas Tuesday night at 8:30 Eastern on Prime. And if you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. The Emirates NBA Cup Championship Game this Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

[Dave DeFore]

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[Andrew Schlecht]

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[Dave DeFore]

All right, and we're back. And through the magic of the Internet, we now have Jared Weiss in James Edwards seat. I'm going to start with the same question that we had for James. How do you feel about the cup?

[James Edwards]

Amazing.

[Ben]

Amazing. James is out of his mind. If he doesn't look.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, he does not like the cup.

[Dave DeFore]

No.

[Ben]

I don't get it. James is like, I think James has a great record of quality takes and somehow has completely thrown the whole thing out the window now with this take, because the NBA cup is great. I understand the concerns that it's propaganda. Sometimes you make really good propaganda. You know what I'm saying? Like the I love the court thing.

[Dave DeFore]

Top Gun is a good, good example, right?

[Ben]

Exactly.

[Dave DeFore]

This is Top Gun.

[Ben]

I literally was walking around the casino today, windmill, high fiving people. They didn't understand why, but you know, you should watch a movie again.

[Andrew Schlecht]

The.

[Ben]

The NBA cup is a bunch of glitz and glamour and putting bells and whistles on stuff, and people get annoyed by it. I'm like, well, why don't we just like, do something different for once? Like, let's make it interesting.

[Esperaheny]

His thing is, he thinks a lot of people assume that players play harder in the NBA cup than in the regular season.

[Dave DeFore]

Well, at least that's a story that we kind of.

[James Edwards]

It's.

[Esperaheny]

It's devaluing the regular season by putting up the NBA cup does.

[Dave DeFore]

Wow.

[Ben]

Have we ever had a discussion about whether people take the regular season seriously? Has that come up at all? Yeah, it was the thing. We. Podcasters like us built an empire on that one conversation over the past decade. You know, lives of millionaires have been crowned on that conversation. And so, like, the. The league responded with this. And it's cool because it's just. It's different. Like, even if you don't love it, it's different. And I've been asking players, do you care about the money? And they're like, hell, yeah, I care about the money. It's there because they finally at least made it enough of a purse. Yeah, they're getting p. Serious money.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

Like, I find the money part of it boring. But the games themselves are fun, but.

[Ben]

It gives the incentive.

[Dave DeFore]

Elimination is fun.

[Ben]

Nobody's supposed to care about the money. It's just to make sure the players do. And people like talking about money. They're trying to figure out, why do the players care?

[Esperaheny]

They care because the young guys also get a good 13th guy on the bench. Etc. That's who they're playing for in this moment.

[Ben]

Well, I've had multiple conversations with Keldon Johnson about whether David Jones. Garcia. Garcia should buy a Lambo Urus truck with his money, which I think that. I think his prize money would be like, the exact MSRP for a Lambo. So we'll see if we can get a good deal. But. But to make the actual point between the courts, the. Obviously here, what we're here for, like, we're recording a pot in the hotel in Vegas because of this. And we wouldn't do this if people weren't interested, but people actually are interested. It's cool that we can create these special moments throughout the season. And people now think that it doesn't mean anything because it doesn't have a tradition. Tradition has to start at some point. You have to build tradition over time. Do you think, like, do we really think that people. And, sorry, I'm gonna keep ranting because this is just. I'm really bad. 1874. Do you think the first fans at the English FA cup were like, wow, can you imagine what we're gonna. All the photos that we're gonna tweet out 150 years from now about being here at the first? No, they were like, we're at a game, right?

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

We're at a game and then over time it becomes the cup up and it becomes something meaningful.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Rivalries get created.

[Dave DeFore]

There's Pacers buck stuff from last year. Also something else that maybe got lost in the shuffle. The Pacers really started to figure out who they were. I would argue in this arena that's like right behind us.

[Ben]

And the spurs might be doing that right now.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I. Let's go ahead and get to the Spurs. I am maybe going off the rails with the Spurs. I can't put a ceiling on where they're going to be because Victor women Yama is such an anomaly. What you've watched this team over the course of the season so far. I mean, Dylan Harper's play what, 15 games and the guy looks like he's been in the league for five years.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

They call him a veteran.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Ben]

What is.

[Dave DeFore]

What was going on with the development curve of this team and why do they feel like we went from saying, oh, they're they're going to make the play in this year to like, are they going to be a home court team in the West? What's happening?

[Ben]

It's funny, I asked de' Aaron Fox about that before the game on Tuesday. And what's today? Monday. I don't even know what day it is. It's NBA cup, baby. And I asked him about that specifically because when we were asking all the spurs players before the season, what's your expectation? They were all like, play in playoffs. Victor was the one that made waves where he said six seed.

[Esperaheny]

Right.

[Ben]

And that was like we were like, really, buddy? You sure about that? You sure about that? He was probably underselling it, as you can tell.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Ben]

Like he was sure about that. And this, his injury was a blessing in disguise for this team, which is.

[Esperaheny]

Crazy because they figured out how to play without him.

[Ben]

They finally played. That was the offense that they were talking about playing from the beginning. He was the problem, you know, having one of the best players in the world, that was what was holding them back from being a great team. And so now that they have finally done that, this is a joke I'm bringing around, which is that now that they have him and they're able to understand how their spacing works, how their timing works, how they want to push, everybody has more confidence because they've gotten more reps now they can put that all together in their next month or two was about finding the synergies between the way they can slow things down and play over the top with Victor and the way they can keep things moving playing through guys like Fox and Harper and Castle, and that's not going to happen overnight. And the fact that they at least were good enough to beat the Thunder, where they're like just trying to figure out what is our real true identity here, shows why you just can't put a ceiling on this team as we just. The height, the possibilities are too good.

[Esperaheny]

They're also such a unique team because their guards are the guys putting pressure on the rim consistently. But it's Wemby that's the perimeter oriented player who's like still trying to get into the paint and work in the post more often. But it's just, it's unique compared to even what you see in modern basketball right now. It's the guards that are putting pressure versus the, the big that's playing on the outside. Is that also something that they have talked about before?

[Ben]

Yeah. Well, you know, I think these last two years we've seen. We're kind of in the middle of an anti spacing movement almost where, you know, teams are no longer trying to spread out as wide as humanly possible. Yeah. And it's a good reminder that every time there's a movement in the league and people are like, this is how it's supposed to be done.

[Dave DeFore]

Right.

[Ben]

Remember, that is not the only answer. Life is cyclical. Strategy is cyclical. It will come back around.

[Dave DeFore]

You've got a zag when everybody's zigging. And it depends on your roster too. Right. And this team is just so unique because you have, you know, the guard rotation that they've got. You've got these three point guards that always get their two feet in the paint. You've got these, these wing shooters who are just willing to, I mean, Devin Vassell is going to get the shot up if he's open. And now you have Wimby, who is himself. This. It's like Shaq and Steph Curry had a baby and now you plug that in. These guys who get to. You think about this. He when, when they get two feet into the paint and he's the release valve from three.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

And he's shooting the ball the way he does. I mean, this is almost unguardable in the half court. How do you feel about like just the way that they defend. And even where Wimby makes mistakes, you know, the guards themselves are so good up front. Like, how do you feel that holds up when we get playoff time? Like, is this, is this going to be one of the better defenses we see.

[Ben]

I think so just because Wemby just. He eliminates your margin for error or he widens it. I never understand how that metaphor works, but he gives you. Yeah, he widens it. He wish a giant margin for a 7 foot 5 margin for error. And so you know, their approach generally has been high press up by the half court line getting underneath you. They're not trying to trap you so much as they're just trying to pick you up high because they know that they can guard. They can. So like, okay, if it's. If guards want to press at half court, usually the counter is. The screener is like 30ft up, like really, really high up. Right. And we saw that in the finals a ton last week.

[Esperaheny]

A lot of step up screens for a Shay.

[Ben]

And so the, the vulnerability there is lots of step up threes for your ball handler. But when Wemby is in drop coverage and he's sitting underneath that, he's going to be in range. And so they're never going to get comfor. And so then your big is so far out that he is going to. You can't really roll into the play. He's too far out. So I think they're going to get more and more aggressive. Victor's going to get better and better and better with his positioning. And the challenge for him is can he get better at positioning himself early in possessions and actions that he doesn't have to move as much, doesn't have to recover as much. Because we've seen so many times where a lot of his best plays are. He screwed up, he's in the wrong position and then he just like reaches behind him and he just stuck the shot. And he's done that a lot of times. There's a lot of games they would have lost, but he pulled it off and that's what makes him just unprecedented.

[Esperaheny]

I also, like, if you look at Wemby in general, I was talking to these guys about it earlier, but he, I mean, it's easy to say he has the full package, but he's quotable. Right. He's willing to go there with the pure ethical basketball comment that he made. He plays a unique brand of basketball. He obviously brings in a crowd. This is the future face of the NBA very easily. Right?

[Ben]

Yeah, he's.

[Dave DeFore]

We.

[Ben]

We were looking at Ant as being that guy a couple years ago because his energy was so infectious, his trash talking was so exciting. And now we're starting to see Victor doing that.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And he's gonna be, I don't know how much better he's gonna be the Anthony Edwards, but he's probably going to be better Anthony Edwards. I don't know if he's there already.

[Dave DeFore]

He's gonna wind up being better than everyone, maybe ever.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[James Edwards]

So maybe.

[Ben]

Yeah. Yeah. So he. He is the complete package for sure, because he is as insightful as he is entertaining. It's been kind of recent and new that he's at least in my experience, that he's starting to get like, take the bait on some of this. More play, more drama stuff. Yeah, he's not afraid to talk his talk. And I mean, I was just watching the clip of when Chet missed a free throw at the end and he went quiet. I was like, wow, this guy's a killer. That's the thing is because he's so quiet in general, we haven't seen his full personality come out as much over the years. Now it's really starting to show. And now that they're working winning for the first time, we're seeing his competitive nature come out. And it's way more extroverted than I expected. And that's the thing that we're going to like, really find out over the course of the year if he started 5, 0.

[Dave DeFore]

And do you remember when, like, the way he reacted to the best start in spurs history, which feels crazy that it's 5 and 0, but he reacted like it meant something to him to win the first five games of the season. And it's because it's so easy for us to forget already because we're expecting him to be one of the greatest ever, that he has really not had much success in the NBA yet, including. And the injury stuff has also been a part of this. So there's a little bit of. It's not even failure to launch, it's like delayed launch for him to a certain degree. And I wonder if he kind of feels like, okay, I get to take the robe off and really go for it now.

[Ben]

I think that's what the blood clot was for him last year was he was like, I am now good enough that we can win some games and we're close enough to making the play in that we can actually get to the playoffs and get some real experience. And he had it taken away from him and then he had to spend like six months just sitting there being like, I can't do it, man. He's just kind of growling basically, right. Like he's chomping at the bit. You know, we were writing when the season started about his off season. Workout. He was working out like he was about to win a championship game. Every time he walked in, like, the guy's out of his mind. I had people telling me that they've never seen somebody work as hard as him. And he's the biggest dude ever. Like, that's how you get to the.

[Dave DeFore]

Top of the top.

[Ben]

That's how you're not. Sean Bradley. I was trying to think of a better example. Sean Bradley. Yeah, he was a good player. Sean Bradley's a guy that 30 years later, like, yeah, he's a good player.

[Dave DeFore]

Thank you.

[James Edwards]

There you go.

[Ben]

There we go. Who is just as good as him, according to Shaq, Right?

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And this is the difference, right, between. And I don't know much about bul Bull's workout thing. He's a nice guy. I met him before, so I don't know. But like, you know, obviously injuries were a part of it and just like throwing shade from behind the camera. But like Bull. Bull versus Wemby, a huge part of it is not just like, are you lucky enough to stay healthy? Like, you have to put the work in and say healthy. You have to be an animal with how you develop. And you look at Victoria, he is 21 and he's already turning into a yoga.

[Dave DeFore]

To be fair, though, we're seeing the culmination of what has been a lifelong project for the people in his life to get him ready for this. Yes, Right.

[Esperaheny]

But you also talk about the trash talk. Yesterday someone asked him, they're like, hey, do you feel you're doing your most to be able to stay healthy? And he's like, of course. There's nothing else I could possibly do to stay healthy. You see him battling in the post before he subs on the. The like weird pre workout stuff he does.

[Ben]

They're like slapping him.

[Esperaheny]

Activation, muscle activation.

[Dave DeFore]

Extremely physical for a warm up with your coaches. I mean, I. I watched the coach actually put him on the ground in the warm up. Not like on purpose, but he. He hit him hard enough that he kind of fell over, lost his balance. That was. Is incredibly physical warm up, but I'm assuming that they were testing him. Can you go on that calf? You know, how are you feeling today? Because, I mean, he comes off the bench and that was a little bit of a surprise for us in the game. Right. What did you think about the way that he came in and immediately just like he had two offensive rebounds, a defensive rebound, a put back, and an assist in his first like 40 seconds.

[Esperaheny]

I know. Run.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, one just like looking at the, the black and white between how the team performed with him and without him around, that sequence was fascinating. Like they really struggled, but he wasn't out there. It seemed to me that, that their plan, which was interesting because we never see guys like the big stars returning, not come in till the second quarter. Like we were all like, I guess it's not happening. Like everybody thought it was some sort of game they were playing or something like that. And they mapped it out perfectly so that he could play the length and frequency of the sense they wanted so that he got to close out the game. And of course he was the one that was the big guy at the end, so it worked out. And I think for him in that early stint, he was just like, I think my touch is going to be off, my conditioning is going to be a little bit off. Can I just get to the rim and just affect the rim? Because the one thing he can do is he can stand there and just hold a bunch of people off and just hit the ball to somebody. And he, no matter what is going on in this game, he can always at least smack the ball out of the air towards somebody. And so that's how you get warmed up. That's how you get into the game. He doesn't usually, from what I can think of off the top of my head, he doesn't usually start trying to hit turnaround jumpers and stuff like that. He tries to start in motion. He tries to start with post ups with the intention of getting off of it or they just let other people kind of open the game up. And he's just trying to make a difference there because you want him in control of the ball to be the second thing you go to. So that when the team, when the opponent thinks they're in a rhythm, that's when you go to the thing that they can't handle.

[Esperaheny]

Non Wemby question because it's been a lot of answer.

[Dave DeFore]

Wemby pod.

[Esperaheny]

Wemby's awesome. Number one overall pick. Expectations through the roof. Dylan Harper, very good. Awesome expectations through the roof with that guy. We clearly going to be a great player. Steph Castle though, rookie of the year, I think he's stepped up in such a major way for them and I know he was hurt for a little bit too. But the two point efficiency is through the roof this season compared to last year. What have you seen from Steph? Kind of like taking that next step in his career.

[Ben]

I think I owe Steph an apology because I think when I came on this show, before the season, I questioned whether he was really going to be like an all star caliber player. I was dead wrong. Apologies, Steph. I mean, clearly he's on that track. His, you know, his motor is not a surprise. Like, he's got an insane motor. His athleticism is very Dwyane Wade esque. With the way he just hangs in the air. He's got a lot of D. Wade to his game, frankly.

[Esperaheny]

Finishing is really.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And I think D. Wade's going to be calling that game, right? Or did he call last game? Yeah. So, like, I'm really interested to see what he has to say about Steph. But the big thing with him is he's showing more patience and control because, you know, these. These guys were just like, bat out of hell kind of players a lot of the time. They kind of hit a low ceiling because they just never can refine it. They can never evolve out of it. You know, kind of like the Russell Westbrook syndrome, where it's like, Russ, as great of a player as he is, his kind of downfall has been that he can't really get out of his own way. Right. He can only play at one speed most of the time, and he's still one of the best players ever, even at that speed. And so Steph, I think, is showing his. His patience and his deceleration and not, not just like his like specific moves, but just the way he thinks of his role in the game, I think, is fitting into and meshing into the overwhelming amount of talent that they have on this team.

[Esperaheny]

Ball handling. Yeah, another ball handler. It's like three guards. To be able to create for you is something you just need in the modern NBA.

[Dave DeFore]

His shooting improvement has been huge for them. I mean, if this is. If it sticks, if the shooting sticks, it's massive. And with these guys and the way that they penetrate, all of them are going to be getting great looks. I think this is going to become such a good shooting team because of the. The penetration and obviously Wimby, the. The gravity.

[Ben]

All right, we.

[Dave DeFore]

We got a wrap, but before we go. All right, games tonight, Nick. Spurs could be a finals preview. If we're gonna making that a thing, I'm trying to make it a thing just to drive Andrew nuts. But. But who you picking? Who's going to win the game, spurs or Knicks?

[Ben]

I guess I'm picking the Spurs. And it's not even like a. It's not even like a bias thing. It's just like they just beat the Thunder and Wemby was Good, but not even great in that game. And he's got a few more days to get ready. And just like their downhill speed, I think will go well against the makeup of that Knicks defense because the Knicks defense is good at taking away passing gaps. But, like, those are three guys that can dribble in circles around. So it's not just like, you know, like, I covered the Celtics for a long time and the Knicks defense was really tough for them because Brown and Tatum, they wanted to hit the gap one two step and get off of it. All three of those spurs guards will be able to dribble all the way through those gaps. Yeah, I think. And we'll see. And then, of course, just like the Cat vs. Wemby battle, like, I, I don't know who, I don't know today who has that advantage. I think eventually Wemby has that advantage. Cassman playing phenomenally a lot of these games here. But like, I think that pulling Cat out of the paint, which Wendy is going to do, and letting those guards just get downhill, that's just going to open up so many kickouts for threes for the Spurs. And the spurs, if they win that game, it's because they got up like 40 threes and they hit like 15 or 16 of them.

[Esperaheny]

It matters more for the spurs, too, if that's any kind of consolation. You know, Nick's.

[Dave DeFore]

I don't know. I listen, you know, from talking to James Edwards in the first part of the show, and he, he brought up the fact that this team, like, they're supposed to be the best in the East. Yeah. And this is the fifth or sixth best team. I guess you could do that. I think that there's some pressure here.

[James Edwards]

Yeah.

[Dave DeFore]

And like, I, I think that I want them to win. I want the Knicks to win. Like, I, I think that they should want to win. This is supposed to be a serious title team. Yeah. They should come into this game and try to crush the spurs if they can. I just don't know. I think the talent is closer than we would have thought. Three months ago, I didn't think the spurs were going to look like this.

[Ben]

Right now I didn't either.

[Dave DeFore]

And now I'm like, can, can the Knicks hang with the Spurs?

[Ben]

I.

[Dave DeFore]

That's an interesting question. I, I think that when you look at the way that they can guard up front with Jalen Brunson against Jalen.

[Esperaheny]

Brunson, just, Just go to our prediction moment in October.

[Dave DeFore]

That's true.

[Esperaheny]

Said 50 plus wins and a six.

[Dave DeFore]

Yeah. And. And it felt crazy, but s once again ahead of the curve. All right, Jared. Well guys, go and read Jared at the Athletic again. You heard he does great work. X's and O's and behind the scenes stuff. Thanks to James Edwards for esperahenny and Jared Weiss. I'm Dave DeFore and this is Ben the NBA Daily. Thanks for listening.

[Andrew Schlecht]

Foreigner. Are those the cozy Tommy John pajamas you're buying?

[Ben]

Paige desorbo?

[Esperaheny]

They are Tommy John and yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday gifts.

[Andrew Schlecht]

So generous.

[Esperaheny]

Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when.

[Ben]

It comes to me.

[Esperaheny]

So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear and best fitting loungewear.

[Dave DeFore]

So nothing for your bestie?

[Esperaheny]

Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy John.

[Ben]

Oh, and you of course it's giving.

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[Esperaheny]

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[Esperaheny]

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[Dave DeFore]

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[Esperaheny]

12 are we recording?

[Dave DeFore]

Hi, I'm Michele Bernstein. An award winning Che restaurateur and mom.

[Ben]

I have a lot on my plate, including my psoriatic arthritis symptoms.

[Dave DeFore]

That's why I was prescribed Cosentyx.

[Ben]

It helps me move better.

[Dave DeFore]

Cosentyx Secukenumab is prescribed for people 2 years of age and older with active psoriatic arthritis. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx. Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms. Symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough had a vaccine or plan to or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentix or cosentix.com Ask your rheumatologist about Cosentyx.