Podcast Summary: The Athletic NBA Daily

Episode: "Pablo Torre on the Clippers and the Other Dennis"

Date: September 11, 2025
Host: Dave DuFour with guests Pablo Torre and Sam Amick

Overview

This episode delivers an in-depth exploration of the ongoing Los Angeles Clippers-Kawhi Leonard controversy, focusing on revelations from Pablo Torre's recent investigative reporting. Torre breaks new ground on the saga surrounding a no-show endorsement deal, the mysterious late payment to Kawhi, and the critical—and previously unreported—role of Dennis Wong, Steve Ballmer’s only co-owner and college roommate.

The episode also features analysis from The Athletic’s Sam Amick, particularly on NBA Commissioner Adam Silver’s position and the wider implications for the NBA. The tone is lively but serious, blending journalistic rigor with candid commentary.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Latest in the Clippers-Kawhi Saga (01:26–10:18)

Pablo Torre reveals:

• The second payment to Kawhi Leonard in his "no-show" endorsement deal with Aspiration was months overdue as the company faced financial collapse.
• Aspiration's Internal Crisis: CEO and co-founder Andre Czerny departed, other leaders followed, and 20% of the staff was laid off.
• Vital New Discovery: Nine days prior to the overdue payment, someone injected $1.99 million into Aspiration, a first-time investor at that stage.
• Shocking Source: The investor was Dennis Wong—vice chairman and only limited partner of the Clippers, also Steve Ballmer's college roommate from Harvard.

“This guy happens to be the guy who puts in just enough money nine days before Kawhi Leonard, a critical obligation financially... Huh, that's interesting.”
— Pablo Torre (05:39)

Torre's Reporting Methods:

• Multiple sources (one with voice modulation for anonymity) verify the collapse and these unusual transactions.
• Torre obtained internal documents: stock purchase agreements, bank statements, and budget forecasts.

The League’s Investigation:

• This marks the third NBA investigation into Clippers "side deal" cap circumvention schemes in 10 years (2015's DeAndre Jordan incident, 2019’s cardinal sin, and now this).

2. The “Smoking Gun”: Documentation and Dennis Wong (06:15–10:18)

• Mounting Evidence: There is meticulous documentation linking Wong’s investment to the late payment. No plausible business reason exists for Wong's Aspiration investment at that moment.
• Magnitude: Torre believes the scale and documentation far surpass infamous past scandals, e.g., the Timberwolves’ Joe Smith case.

“It’s rare to have that level of visibility... on every level. You may even call it smoke escaping a... choose your metaphor. What level of firearm this is? I don't know.”
— Pablo Torre (06:31)

3. The Clippers and NBA Response (07:54–09:32)

• Clippers offered a statement on the original report ("Steve and many others got defrauded"—echoing innocence).
• No Comment on more recent findings, despite interview requests detailing new specifics.
• Empathy for Clippers PR: Torre speculates communications staff were not involved in or aware of these intricate dealings.

4. Adam Silver’s Position and League Implications (09:32–13:56)

• Silver’s Burden: In Dave DuFour’s words, “...this is about as close as we get to a smoking gun.”
• Commissioner’s Dilemma: Silver is cautious, stresses need for "hard evidence," and hesitates to act on appearances alone. Yet circumstantial evidence is specifically mentioned in the CBA as sufficient.
• Torre notes that this moment may define Silver’s tenure.

“This is about what people do here... what a team spends and how it's capped, how it's regulated... If a commissioner does not have this as sort of like number one, almost nightmare scenario... what would the Board of Governors want to talk about?”
— Pablo Torre (12:16)

5. Owner & Executive Perspectives on Punishment (13:08–16:49)

• Other Owners: Frustrated by repeated investigations into the Clippers; some, like Mark Cuban (quoted from Torre's own podcast), view this as a bigger scandal than Joe Smith, demanding unprecedented accountability.
• Ultimate Decision: Everyone acknowledges it's up to Adam Silver, even as the CBA’s “spirit” is clear.

“If your reporting is true, then it's over. This is worse than Joe Smith...”
— Mark Cuban, via Pablo Torre (13:56)

• Irony: Ballmer, the league’s richest owner and the audit committee chair, may be threatened by his own transparency responsibilities.

6. “Smoking Guns” Ranked—What Makes This Different? (18:08–23:19)

Torre’s Top Pieces of Evidence:

1. Dennis Wong’s Timed Investment and Role:
   – Ballmer’s only LP and old friend; invested only once, just in time to cover Kawhi's payment.
2. Secret No-Show Endorsement:
   – $48 million for no visible work, deal kept secret from the public and even many in the organization.
3. Kawhi Did Nothing for the Money:
   – The deliverable was “nothing,” and contract's only escape clause was if Kawhi left the team.

“The Dennis Wong thing, to me, once you realize who he is and how he is the only person Ballmer trusted to own a share of his team, I just don't see how you explain this”
— Pablo Torre (22:18)

7. What's at Stake for the NBA? (25:16–30:30)

• If the NBA doesn’t “drop the hammer,” it sets a precedent that even the highest rules—the “cardinal sins”—can be treated as mere suggestions.
• Torre and DuFour both stress the threat to the league’s competitive and moral credibility.

“If it's not dealt with ... at the highest degree of severity... you've basically said to everybody: here is the roadmap for how to treat the most cardinal rule of the NBA as a suggestion as opposed to what feels like a rule.”
— Pablo Torre (25:16)

• Adam Silver’s Legacy: Both host and guests think Silver’s legacy hangs on his response: “He’s been a great commissioner for the owners, and I think it’s time for him to be a better commissioner for the league.” — Dave DuFour (30:30)

8. Board of Governors Meeting & Silver’s Tone (33:14–38:53)

Sam Amick Reports:

• Adam Silver took a harder tone than usual, stating “my powers are very broad”—implying suspensions, draft pick seizures, and more are possible.
• Silver repeated that the investigation’s burden of proof is on the league.

“When given a chance to essentially say, yes, circumstantial [evidence] is enough and it's not a good look, he in fact, pushed it the other way...”
— Sam Amick (35:56)

9. League-wide Perceptions & Owner Dynamics (38:53–44:25)

• Around the League: Nearly everyone (“100%” by one agent’s reckoning) believes the side deal happened.
• Owner Politics: Some fear that if Ballmer is punished and fights back in court, discovery could expose skeletons in other franchises.
• Ballmer’s Standing: Highly respected, chairman of the league’s audit committee, which complicates matters for Silver.

“One of the gatekeepers of the league's financial books at a time when they are digging into his financial books, is pretty rich, you know...”
— Sam Amick (44:23)

10. Looking Ahead: Stakes and Timeline (46:09–49:05)

• Possible Penalties: Could range from voiding Kawhi’s contract, suspensions, draft pick forfeiture, — but no current talk of forcing Ballmer to sell.
• Long Timeline: Don’t expect quick resolution—likely months, not weeks. Precedent set by Robert Sarver’s protracted investigation.

Notable Quotes (w/ Timestamps)

• On the scale of documentation:
  “You may even call it smoke escaping a... choose your metaphor. What level of firearm this is? I don't know.”
  — Pablo Torre (06:31)

• On owner accountability:
  “If your reporting is true, then it's over. This is worse than Joe Smith...”
  — Mark Cuban, via Pablo Torre (13:56)

• On the threat to league integrity:
  “If it's not dealt with ... at the highest degree of severity... you've basically said to everybody: here is the roadmap for how to treat the most cardinal rule of the NBA as a suggestion.”
  — Pablo Torre (25:16)

• On Adam Silver’s decision:
  “I think Adam Silver's legacy is 100% on the line... it's time for him to be a better commissioner for the league.”
  — Dave DuFour (30:30)

• On Ballmer’s audit role:
  “One of the gatekeepers of the league's financial books at a time when they are digging into his financial books, is pretty rich, you know...”
  — Sam Amick (44:23)

Conclusion

This episode delivers a clear, detailed unraveling of the Clippers salary cap circumvention scandal, intensifying after Pablo Torre's “second Dennis” revelation. The documentation and timing of Dennis Wong’s investment leaves little doubt among insiders and raises existential questions about the NBA’s rules and competitive landscape. All eyes are now on Adam Silver, as the future of league governance and its credibility hangs in the balance.

For more: Listen to Pablo Torre Finds Out and read Sam Amick’s ongoing coverage at The Athletic.