Pacers bench drives game 3 win, Indy takes 2-1 lead

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily: Pacers Bench Drives Game 3 Win, Indy Takes 2-1 Lead

Release Date: June 12, 2025
Hosts: Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, Esfandiar Baraheni
Episode Title: Pacers Bench Drives Game 3 Win, Indy Takes 2-1 Lead

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Introduction

In this episode of The Athletic NBA Daily, hosts Dave DuFour, Zena Keita, and Esfandiar Baraheni delve into the thrilling Game 3 of the NBA Finals, where the Indiana Pacers secured a decisive victory over the Oklahoma City Thunder, taking a 2-1 series lead. The discussion encompasses game breakdowns, key performances, strategic insights, and anticipations for the upcoming Game 4.

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Game 3 Overview

Dave DuFour opens the discussion with enthusiasm about the high-paced nature of Game 3, describing it as "one of the best games of the playoffs" (02:00). He emphasizes the lack of three-pointers and the aggressive paint attacks by both teams, highlighting the game's strategic depth.

Bench Contributions

The Pacers' bench emerged as the unsung heroes of the night. DuFour points out the pivotal role played by TJ McConnell, Ben Mahn, and Obi Toppin in the second quarter, where the bench collectively scored 40 points while limiting the Thunder to just 28 points.

Esfandiar Baraheni adds, "Energy is a really big cliché to bring here, but I think one of the most important parts about what both TJ McConnell and Ben Mahn do incredibly well for the Pacers is getting into the paint and driving the basketball" (04:42).

Zena Keita highlights McConnell’s performance, noting his efficiency from the free-throw line: "McConnell was getting fouled as well with 4 for 4 in that quarter from the free throw line" (05:50).

Defensive Strategies

Indiana's defensive prowess was on full display. DuFour remarks, "The Thunder looked exhausted by the fourth quarter... they were clearly trying to wear them down" (07:04). The Pacers employed aggressive defensive tactics, with players like Aaron Nesmith and Andrew Nemhart accumulating 11 fouls between them, effectively disrupting Oklahoma City's rhythm.

Baraheni commends Rick Carlisle’s coaching: "Credit to Rick Carlisle again, because he's just finding the right buttons to push for the team defensively" (07:55). The Pacers’ ability to force turnovers, particularly from key Thunder players SGA and Jalen Williams, was a critical factor in their victory.

Key Players Analysis

Tyrese Halliburton received special attention for his dual impact on both ends of the floor. Zena Keita observes, "I want to give a lot of credit to Tyrese Halliburton for the energy, because I feel as if he was dictating that energy" (09:00). His defensive plays, including a crucial block on Jalen Williams, set the tone for the Pacers' intensified defense.

However, concerns were raised about Halliburton’s offensive consistency. DuFour states, "We've talked quite a bit about, you know, one game to the next with Halliburton. You never know what you're going to get" (10:13). Keita responds by emphasizing his evolving offensive role: "Once he got that first shot off, you started to see him pick up and it was like, yes, okay, he's going to try some more things" (11:55).

Turnover Impact

Turnovers were a significant issue for the Thunder, contributing to their loss. DuFour notes, "The reason the Thunder lost this game isn't because of the big three not scoring. It's the turnovers" (13:35). Baraheni adds, "You've only had more turnovers than tonight once in the regular season" (13:56), highlighting the uncharacteristic nature of Oklahoma City's ball-handling struggles.

The Pacers capitalized on these turnovers, with key players like SGA forcing six turnovers and Jalen Williams contributing four. This defensive efficiency not only stifled the Thunder's offense but also provided the Pacers with additional scoring opportunities.

Predictions for Game 4

As the series progresses to Game 4 with a short two-day turnaround, the hosts speculate on the potential outcomes:

• DuFour expresses uncertainty, "My expectations are all over the place for this next game. I mean, the Thunder obviously coming off a loss... I don't know" (20:48).

• Baraheni discusses the Thunder's youth and resilience, suggesting that the short break might benefit them: "They are a wildly young team, like they should be" (21:18).

• Keita anticipates strategic adjustments by the Pacers, "I think that they're going to learn that lesson from that series and say let's take care of OKC because we have all the momentum right now" (23:29).

The consensus leans towards a competitive Game 4, with the Pacers holding momentum but the Thunder possessing the potential to rebound.

Closing Remarks

In a candid moment, Zena Keita admits underestimating the Pacers' capabilities: "We were wrong. We doubted their ability... My bad, Indiana. I did not give y'all enough credit" (27:35). DuFour wraps up the discussion by expressing hope for a closely contested series, stating, "I'm gonna say that this is gonna go seven. I think it's gonna... I'm rooting for it to go soon" (27:28).

The hosts emphasize the evolving dynamics of the series, acknowledging Rick Carlisle's strategic acumen and the Pacers' defensive transformations. The episode concludes with anticipation for Game 4, underscoring the intensity and unpredictability that hallmark the NBA Finals.

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Notable Quotes

• Dave DuFour (02:00): "Another great NBA Finals game in the books."
• Esfandiar Baraheni (04:42): "Energy is a really big cliché to bring here, but I think one of the most important parts about what both TJ McConnell and Ben Mahn do incredibly well for the Pacers is getting into the paint and driving the basketball."
• Zena Keita (09:00): "I want to give a lot of credit to Tyrese Halliburton for the energy, because I feel as if he was dictating that energy."
• Dave DuFour (13:35): "The reason the Thunder lost this game isn't because of the big three not scoring. It's the turnovers."
• Zena Keita (27:35): "We were wrong. We doubted their ability... My bad, Indiana. I did not give y'all enough credit."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily provides an in-depth analysis of Game 3 of the NBA Finals, celebrating the Indiana Pacers' strategic brilliance and bench depth while scrutinizing the Oklahoma City Thunder's challenges. With the series tipping to a 2-1 advantage for Indiana, the hosts keenly anticipate the forthcoming Game 4, promising continued excitement and strategic warfare in the quest for the championship.

Transcript

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[Dave Dufour]

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[Zena Cata]

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[Dave Dufour]

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[Jessica Hawke]

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[Dave Dufour]

Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for June 12, 2025. I'm Dave Dufour here with Zena Cata and Esperaheny coming, the pacers take a 21 lead in the NBA Finals. We're going to break down Game three and look ahead to what the Thunder need to do in Game 4 to respond. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, guys. Another great NBA Finals game in the books. Yeah, one of the best games of the playoffs. I had like an incredible time watching it. Number one, the game was on speed. I mean, we were just flying up and down the court all night long. Not a lot of three pointers, both teams attacking the paint. I mean, this was before we Even talk about what happened. I mean, this was just a fun basketball game. Like, I really just had a fun time watching it.

[Zena Cata]

When I watch the games, I take notes on my iPad and my written iPad. And first note that I wrote down today, game starts super physical and super fast. And the first thing that I noted was that foul on SGA against Nemhard, the offensive foul to start the game. So you knew that Indiana was going to immediately want to impose their will defensively in this game from the jump, literally from tip of how Nemar was trying to disrupt sga. And so it lit. It was just fun to see. Okay, but this is Indiana. As the T shirt said, all around the arena, they're trying to show up. And they did.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, they gave up the yes sirs. They gave up the yes sir shirts and they leaned in on Indiana.

[Dave Dufour]

I think after you saw the. The Lucha guy in OKC and his chest says no sirs. Right. You probably just have to step it up.

[Zena Cata]

You gotta.

[Esperaheny]

Hey, to your point about the incredible game nine lead changes in this one, and it was back and forth throughout. The way that both teams kind of answered the blows that each other threw at each other was awesome. Yeah, there's a lot of parts to this game that we can get into. It was just truly one of the best playoff games that we watched this season.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, the story of the game and the stars of the game, the Indiana Pacers bench, TJ McConnell, Ben Mahn, Obi Toppin in that second quarter really just. They won the game there. The. The Pacers, it was their best quarter of the finals. They put up 40 points, hold OKC to only 28, which they've struggled to do in some quarters, although we'll get to the fourth in a bit. But S. What did you like about the way that that bench unit came out? We've talked about Obi Toppin being the fastball for them, but it's been a lot of his three point shooting. But in this game, he didn't hit a 3, but he still was. Was extremely effective.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, look, energy is a really big cliche to bring here, but I think one of the most important parts about what both TJ McConnell and Ben Matheran do incredibly well for the Pacers is. Is get into the paint. They are great at driving the basketball. And while Halliburton is more of an east west guy and Siakam is more of a post up kind of prod and kind of slowly get inside, Guy McConnell darts inside. Matherin bullies his way inside. And they needed that to kind of churn their offense a little bit and to the energy point. Like I think McConnell started the second quarter with two straight inbound seals steals and Matherin got a couple of and ones and that got the crowd going. Indiana's crowd by was incredible. I mean matched. I'm imagining what OKC did in game one and game two and. And look, that type of performance from your bench. I also thought Ben Shepard was pretty good in this game just as a guy who was playing defense for them. So they got contributions from everybody off of the bench. McConnell and Matherin though, kind of keeping things going, making the offense hum for Indiana.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, I'm looking at the free throw line too.

[Zena Cata]

Yeah, I'm looking at that second quarter box score for the bench. Ben Matheran plus 10, Obi Toppin plus 11, TJ McConnell plus 15. Now the funny thing is that Obi Toppin in that second quarter actually did not score. He didn't do anything but get one rebound and one assist. But what you saw him consistently doing is putting pressure on Miles Turner and particularly just being a good second big out there. It's funny, at the top of the second quarter, OKC went big, double big. And it worked for like two minutes. And Dagnaut was like, no, we got to switch this out. And immediately you see Aaron Wiggins come in for Hartenstein. And literally it's because one Obi Toppin was running. I mean, darting in for just cuts, just for diversion movement. Right. Just to occupy space and occupy defenders. He was doing such a good job of doing that. Him alongside Neesmith those first few buckets. You think about McConnell dribbling, getting behind the defense as Dave and I talked about with Scott Agnes. And then N. Smith cuts to the basket. It was just that sort of movement that was so impactful from the bench. And then on top of the fact that Matherin kept putting the ball in the basket and McConnell was getting fouled as well with 4 for 4 in that quarter as well from the free throw line.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the Pacers energy because it's on both ends, right. We talk about how fast they play on offense. Yeah, their defense was excellent in this game. Aaron Nesmith and Andrew Nemhart picked up 11 fouls between the two of them and they earned every single one of them. And by the time we got to the fourth quarter, the Thunder looked exhausted. I mean, you know, watching the game, you see that even I think Doris Burke highlighted it. Shea goes Alexander. You never see him not moving on defense. And he was just paused in the corner with his hands on his knees. On a defensive play, I mean, it. It really is. Is getting to a point where this is clearly part of their strategy. We're going to wear you down 94ft, and we're going to force you to take shots that are tough every single possession. And with the way that Rick Carlisle is using his bench, he's just keeping his guys fresher down the stretch.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, man. I mean, credit to Rick Carlisle again, because, like, he's just finding the right buttons to push for the. For this team. Defensively, I thought it was interesting because they were really aggressive with Miles Turner in the pick and roll, you know, kind of keeping him at the level to make sure Shay was getting. Getting the ball out other guys and whatnot. And at first I was like, man, Miles Turner is struggling in space. He had a huge fourth quarter for them, though, with massive block shots. And I also thought from that aggression at the point of attack, Halliburton was aggressive. He had three stocks in this game, two steals, one block. Pascal Siakam had a couple of steals and a block as well. So on the help side, they were active on their rotations. And to your part, when you have Nemhard and Matheran, and honestly, I thought Matheran was pretty good in this one too. Nemhard and Neesmith being good at the point of attack, just solid at guarding Shea, making things tough. On J Dub, you're allowed to be a little bit more aggressive on the backside, and that's why Indiana's defense was able to be so successful tonight. It was an awesome, awesome execution from them.

[Zena Cata]

And I want to give a lot of credit to Tyrese Halliburton as well for the energy, because I feel as if he was dictating that energy. I particularly am thinking of that one block that I believe he had on Jalen Williams that got called a foul, where he had his full hand on the back of Jalen Williams and got on top of the ball. And it right after that play, he's like bouncing around the court. And it was. I feel like from that play on, he was like, we feel good. We feel fresh. Let's go after them. And he allowed his game to be dictated by his defense before it was his offense. And that really was kind of a shift in the game for me.

[Dave Dufour]

Once Halliburton starts bouncing around, you know something's happening, right? Like, you know that he's got some energy. And the truth is. Time to talk about Halliburton. I mean, I thought that he just. We have talked quite a bit about, you know, one game to the next with Halliburton. You never know what you're going to get, right? Some games he's super aggressive, some games he's not. And the talk for the last couple days around him has been, hey, look, what are you doing in the first half? Why are you saving it all? I mean, we mentioned he had seven shots in game, in game two through three quarters, then goes five or six in the fourth quarter. How come you don't spread that energy out a little bit more and maybe put some more points on the board and come to game three? He does that. You know, he was much more aggressive to start. Start the game. He had a great third quarter when they, when his, you know, the Pacers have kind of struggled to score. They've leaned on Pascal Siako maybe a little bit too much in those third quarters and that kept him afloat, kept him in the lead. What'd you guys think about Halliburton? I mean, obviously he scored, but he also, I mean, I thought he was more aggressive making plays, too.

[Zena Cata]

What's interesting is that Halliburton actually didn't get his first shot off until six minutes were remaining in the first quarter. And you got a little concerned about what you're saying, Dave. Like, is this going to happen again? Is he going to have another slow start? But what you saw that was more emphasized in this game than we've seen in the first two is the give and go action. He kept passing the ball up and getting it right back or finding himself in a position in which he could get it back. He did that give and go action with Miles Turner. He would do the give and go action with Nemhardt. He would pass it up to Nemhardt or it would almost be forced out of his hands. Where OKC was getting Nemhar to be the person to be open on the inbounds so that he had to push it up, which is fine. You want a Tyrus Halliburton in those off ball actions, being able to come towards the ball, being able to come off of screens towards the ball. And so that was like, okay, he's not exerting as much energy, you know, trying to get the ball up the court or trying to get something going offensively. But once he got that first shot off, you started to see him and pick up and it was like, yes, okay, he's going to try some more things. Earlier in this game, and again, I think his defense actually was more of his. His fire, his spark in this game that led to more offense out of him.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, he was. He was getting to that floater a lot easier.

[Zena Cata]

Yeah, the running floater, too.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah, running floater kind of got him going offensively.

[Dave Dufour]

Shout out to Jared Weiss, who wrote about the Pacers looking for a way to get him to that floater over at the Athletics. Great piece that he wrote yesterday.

[Esperaheny]

Absolutely.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

And like, I actually think they did do a lot of the stuff that Jared mentioned. One of those things is keeping him off ball more often. And to your point, Xena on the catch, Grabbing it on the catch and going. They had this inverted pick and roll between Pascal Siakam and Tyrese Halliburton that helped Siakam get downhill. So just trying different things, not being afraid to move Halliburton off the ball so he can get downhill more frequently. Attack, closeouts. The. The floater went, and then he started to get into a step back three bag, and then the space opened up for him to operate in the pick and roll more often. That's the type of Halliburton you need if this Pacers team wants to win the NBA Finals, which is crazy to say.

[Dave Dufour]

He much more aggressive on shot, on ball fakes. Right. Like when.

[Zena Cata]

When Halliburton is feeling good, he three at the top.

[Dave Dufour]

He will ball fake often. I mean, you see, you know, he picks up a foul, like late in the game, or at least they didn't call a foul. But when he's feeling good, he starts to ball fake before he shoots for the Thunder. Look, this is a rough one. You're. You're going to look and you say, wow, we get 70 from our big three. Why didn't we win this game? As. I mean, the turnovers. The. The Thunder for the second time this whole postseason, lose the turnover battle. It's the most turnovers that they had in a single game this postseason. They were throwing the ball all over the place. I mean, it's the only way we could put it. It was out of character.

[Esperaheny]

They've only had more turnovers than tonight once in the regular season. One single time where they had 20. And so, like, this is obviously out of the ordinary for the Thunder, but I do want to credit the Pacers defense because I thought they were really good at pressuring them, at forcing them into tough decisions. Okay.

[Dave Dufour]

Could not be screened in this game.

[Esperaheny]

Absolutely. Oh, man.

[Dave Dufour]

He was like an NFL running back cutting through, through the tackles. I mean, he was incredible.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah. And I look at this and I say, okay, look who was the main culprit for the turnovers for okc. Sga, six turnovers, Jalen Williams, four turnovers. Those are your two main ball handlers. And to me, that's, you know, kind of what it looks like in the pick and roll and the pressure that Indiana was applying and the decisions that the Thunder just couldn't make off of those reads. So, yeah, it. It like, is OKC going to have a game like this where they're this careless with the ball again? Maybe not, but I think Indiana has found something defensively to at least bother them and make it a little bit more difficult for them to even up the. The math battle, if you will, in the.

[Zena Cata]

Earlier in the game. I credit. I credit Indiana for not falling apart when that high ball screen was just tearing them up.

[Esperaheny]

Cooking.

[Zena Cata]

Yeah, I mean, Shay, Lou Cason, whoever wanted to come off that ball screen, come up with Chet Holmgren. They were having their way. It was olay. They were just getting to the bucket. And I just thought, okay, in Indiana might. This might be it for them. Like, I don't know how they're gonna. They're gonna have to shoot their way out of this. They're gonna have to find a way to combat this because it's too easy for okc. And they stepped it up. And then you saw different varieties of defense, but particularly Neesmith got in there and was so hard to guard. Andrew Nemhar was basically running a box in one, and they got into that zone that actually, they were doing pretty well in with the zone, too. So I just really credit Indiana for not giving up.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Zena Cata]

When OKC was finding their lanes to get into the paint and get to the rack. But, yeah, it was some really tough, gritty defense from Indiana tonight.

[Dave Dufour]

First quarter, by the way. And. And it's this two games in a row that he's gotten off to a good start. I thought he capitalized on that. Good start again. Puts up 20. I mean, it. The. The reason the Thunder lost this game isn't because of the big three not scoring. It's the turnovers. And then nobody else, really. You get four threes out of. Out of Lou Dort and basically no production from the rest of your bench. And, you know, that's. That's tough to overcome.

[Esperaheny]

Can I. Can I ask you guys a quick question about this? So if you're OKC right now and you're looking forward to the next game, do you say, well, we turn the ball over in an uncharacteristic fashion and they got 49 points from their bench, we should be okay. Or do the alarm bells ring? Do you feel worried about the fact that you lost this game despite shooting 45% and, you know, I think you got it. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, the Thunder need to win the games when they shoot like this, right? Like they're, they're not the best shooting team in this series. I mean, they have shot better than, than the Pacers have in, in the series so far. But overall, I think the Pacers, like we expect them to shoot the ball better than, than they did in game two. Right. And they did. Yeah. The, the Thunder really need these games where they have some hot shooting. I mean, there's a point in which maybe, you know, they work themselves into a little bit of a math problem. You know, you only put up 22 threes and maybe you need more. You were shooting the ball like they were shooting the ball extremely well. They just weren't getting the attempts up. I mean, you could, you could kind of say the same for, for the Pacers, but Pacers don't necessarily play a three point game. And I, I think OKC if that if they're going to lose a turnover battle, they need to hit more threes to compensate for that. Right? Like, otherwise they just don't have the, the bench production to kind of make up for it.

[Zena Cata]

Yes, I'm thinking the alarm bells are ringing because, yes, even though you could say the bench for Indiana, I don't want to say uncharacteristically, but at least in this series were uncharacteristically superb. Obien was awesome in that first game, but fell off with that three point game in game two. Comes back and makes an impact. But particularly you're looking at Ben Matheran and the impact that T.J. mcConnell had. You're like, ah, we don't know if we can count on that. But guess what, right?

[Esperaheny]

Are we getting that again?

[Zena Cata]

Are we getting that again? You know, maybe you can feel a little bit of confidence if you're thinking okc, you know, if you are okc. But I'm looking at the fact that Miles Turner did not have a good game offensively. He was really off not only from his outside shot, but particularly where he usually finds success inside the paint. He can get back to that capability. That capability. And you know who else can? The person that cooked you and got you to that win or Indiana to that win in the first game, Andrew Nemhardt, who also was so preoccupied with the defense that he was playing, he didn't have a great offensive game and so I'm looking like even if the bench simmers down for Indiana, I'm concerned about the people that are starting and if they refind at home feeling good up to one if they find their game in game four.

[Dave Dufour]

All right guys, stick around after the break. We're going to look ahead to that game four and give our expectations Foreign.

[Jessica Hawke]

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[Dave Dufour]

It's fun because it's a strategy game.

[Zena Cata]

As well and I think that transitions.

[Dave Dufour]

Well into the business world. There's so much, much data underlying every single thing that you're doing in your business and having a way to unify all that data. This is like electricity. This is a major platform shift and I think we're all learning together.

[Jessica Hawke]

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[Zena Cata]

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[Dave Dufour]

Okay, we've got a short turnaround for game four Friday nights. What do you expect?

[Esperaheny]

Well, the fact that it's a short turnaround is actually kind of interesting here, right? It's been two days off for every team and now I don't know. Shay played 42 minutes. Now give let's let's be real.

[Dave Dufour]

Look tired at the end.

[Esperaheny]

The Thunder do look a little Tired, but at the same time, they are a wildly young team, like they should be. Okay.

[Dave Dufour]

And they're in Indianapolis. Nobody's going out. Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

And, and it's not like there's some altitude issue in Indianapolis. You got flat land, you know, I mean, it's not a problem there. I don't know. I, I think the thing I'm looking at here for, for game four is how do these game fours typically play out?

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Esperaheny]

The underdog, quote, unquote, stole game three.

[Dave Dufour]

Right.

[Esperaheny]

And they did it on their home court. Now the pressure is sort of off of them. So do they come out playing a little loose, playing a little uncharacteristic, like not playing the same brand of basketball that they played in game three? Or do they put the kill them? Do they?

[Dave Dufour]

Funny, because the Pacers have done this, right? We saw them do this against the Knicks where we, we thought that they were. Had a chance to finish them off in game five. Yeah. And they came out kind of flat. I mean, Xena, look, the, the Pacers, they're in the finals now, but we've seen them not win the games that they're supposed to win, and we've seen them make some of those wins that they're supposed to get. Just crazy. So, I mean, my expectations are all over the place for this next game. I mean, the Thunder obviously coming off a loss, we saw what they just did off of a loss. We've seen what they've done all year. Usually they come out and stomp teams. I don't know. What do you think is. Zena, what are the vibes for you?

[Zena Cata]

Well, first I will say the Thunder have played better when there's less time between games. I feel like they need, they want to get right.

[Dave Dufour]

That's true.

[Zena Cata]

Right to it.

[Esperaheny]

That's true.

[Zena Cata]

Right.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Zena Cata]

So they actually, this might actually be a benefit for them to be able to. Let's look at the tape. Let's get right back on the court as opposed to like dragging it on. And as you mentioned, they are young, so they could bounce back really nicely. Either way, I feel like Indiana is improving and they're going to look at that Knick series and they're going to see like, yo, we should have handled that. We should have been done with that. They should have been packed up, sent them off, got bought their summer tickets to wherever, you know, Cancun, Cabo, wherever. We should have done that earlier in that series. And sure, we made a lot of people a lot of money, but we also made ourselves. We dug ourselves A hole that we should not have been in.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Zena Cata]

And I think that they're going to learn that lesson from that series and say let's take care of OKC because we have all the momentum right now. And if anything, they, as you mentioned, they're the underdog. Right. That's even more incendiary for them to get going. Just like let's use that and this energy that you're seeing out of Gainbridge Field House and let's go ahead and go up 3:1 now. Let's put the pressure on them. We did our jobs. Everybody said it's going to be done in five. It's already automatically at least six if OKC wants to be in this. So I do hope that they come out with a fire under them and a spark under them to at least get game four. I think that, that I think is.

[Dave Dufour]

Possible playing with house money and just win now. If they go up 3:1, it's more than likely than not that they're going to win the finals. Xena, are you. Are you changing your pick here? Wow. The Pacers are causing us crisis of faith in the Oklahoma City Thunder. They are question. Making me question everything.

[Zena Cata]

We, we talked about how well matched this team is. Right. Like, and not necessarily that they're even. It's just that the things that they're really good at play well off of against each other. Right. But we're now seeing Indiana. Like I said, they have improved. I love when I think it was s. That said this a while ago. I can't remember about what team, but he talked about. It's like AI right. Like the more information you feed it, they get better.

[Esperaheny]

I was actually, I was saying that about OKC funny enough.

[Zena Cata]

Really? Okay. Interestingly enough. Well, I feel like Indiana is doing that right now and that they're literally evolving as time goes on. And they became OKC on defense tonight. They were in passing lanes, they were disrupting rhythm. They were doing all these things that I'm now like, okay, they. We don't. I don't even know if we saw real Pacers offense tonight, like their normal level of production because obviously OKC defense is great. But you match OKC Indiana. Excuse me, you match Indiana offense with them feeling comfortable, them being up to one. Them being at home with the defense that they have now amoeba into themselves in this series. I. I don't know.

[Dave Dufour]

The.

[Esperaheny]

The belief is there now. You know. You know what? Like, yeah, the, the Pacers have the coaching advantage in this series right now. Rick Carlisle is Cooking. In terms of what he's like, what buttons he's pushing at the right time, what lineups he's going to, what he thinks a game requires. Live action. He is doing it all.

[Dave Dufour]

I mean, right now, just think about this Miles Turner, awful game. We've seen him bench Miles Turner for the. For Obi Top into close games. Yeah, that was my expectation in this. In. In game three, was. Hey, Obi Toppin's been great out there. Miles Turner's had a rough run of it. I bet we're going to see Obi Topping closing, and look at what he does. He goes with Miles Turner, and it wound up being the right move. I mean, Miles Turner made a couple of huge plays that Obi Topping probably doesn't make. Right? Yeah.

[Esperaheny]

Obi Toppin, offensive rebound dunk. I mean, my goodness, that was incredible. They just play after play, credit the players, but putting them in a position.

[Dave Dufour]

Is putting them in a position. The guys that are. For the moment. I mean, this is what. This is the one thing that we can actually point to, the coaches do, right? They. They chose the guys on the court, and. And however that plays out, you know, we got to give them some. Some modicum of credit at some point. But, Xena, can we.

[Esperaheny]

Can we. Can we just. Can we just agree that, like, kind.

[Dave Dufour]

Of on the same page here, whoever.

[Esperaheny]

Wins game four is going to win the series? Can we agree there?

[Dave Dufour]

No. Because if the Pacers win game four, I think they win the series. But if the Thunder win, I. We got a best two out of three. And I've seen, you know, I've seen what the Pacers have.

[Zena Cata]

Okay.

[Dave Dufour]

I'm gonna say that this is gonna go seven. I think it's gonna. I'm rooting for it to go soon.

[Esperaheny]

Selfishly awesome. But. Yeah.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Zena Cata]

And for what it's worth, I think it is. It is time we say this. I'm going to speak for the entire media landscape, Indiana. We were wrong. We were wrong. We were. And I am sorry.

[Dave Dufour]

Well, no, I'm stopping you.

[Zena Cata]

We were wrong.

[Dave Dufour]

Thank you. We were wrong.

[Zena Cata]

We doubted their ability. We didn't doubt that this. These would be close.

[Dave Dufour]

It's not over yet. It's not over yet. We got to save our apologies.

[Zena Cata]

I'm saying. I guess my. I. I'll say this. I was wrong.

[Dave Dufour]

This is how much you weren't really believing.

[Esperaheny]

We're leaning in. We said OKC and six.

[Zena Cata]

We did.

[Esperaheny]

You know, we gave OKC in five.

[Dave Dufour]

Still might be six of that.

[Zena Cata]

I said OKC in five. So I was very wrong.

[Dave Dufour]

That's actually what it is.

[Zena Cata]

I was very wrong. What it is is that I didn't know that Indiana was going to be this good at closing out games.

[Dave Dufour]

Yeah.

[Zena Cata]

And I should have learned that from obviously, the Knicks series.

[Esperaheny]

Yeah.

[Zena Cata]

But I just, I put too much faith in the OKC defense. I put too much faith in the OKC production and also Shay, Gildas, Alexander and just, you know, him having to carry it all on his own, I put too much faith in that. And I have to say I am going to put it out there. My bad, Indiana. I did not, I did not give y' all enough credit.

[Dave Dufour]

Apologizing. I want to be clear here, because if it's still Thunder and six, no apologies on my. Yeah, that's right. That's gonna do it for the show, guys. We got the morning shoot around coming up. Go and check it out on YouTube. It'll stream live. Obviously it's been hitting the, the podcast feed and we appreciate the feedback on that. People seem to enjoy the, the longer format where we have, you know, we're gonna hit some topics. We're going to talk about the Knicks and their desperate search for a coach. Bring your. They're basically sending us texts to every single team in the league trying to.

[Esperaheny]

I would be mad if my coach didn't get a call.

[Dave Dufour]

Just want to think about what that means. Right. Like if you go down that list and you start getting, wow, how come we haven't got to start questioning it? Anyway, for Xena, Keda and Esperaheny, I'm Dave Dufour and this has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

[Zena Cata]

Foreign.

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[Dave Dufour]

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[Zena Cata]

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