B (2:28)

Possible, man.

A (2:28)

Yeah, it is possible. Yeah, it is possible. I mean, I guess Philly's still in the mix.

B (2:33)

I don't know.

A (2:33)

We'll see. Anyway. Heck of a win. Hey, so we got to talk about this expansion news that dropped. We got some news yesterday that the league is going to vote at the next board of Governors meeting on expansion and furthering those discussions.

B (2:50)

Feel like this was coming down the pipeline.

A (2:52)

Yeah. Well, it's been happening for years, and I think that getting the new TV deal out of the way allows them to then move on to this part of it, which to me seems like you maybe want to have it as part of the process, since now you're going to have to negotiate with the other owners on how to split the money up with new teams.

B (3:10)

Yep.

A (3:11)

And then I. I don't want to get into the financial parts of this because frankly, I think for NBA fans, like, finding out that a new team might cost $7 billion is kind of more boring than anything else. Yeah.

B (3:23)

Yeah.

A (3:23)

So what I do want to talk about is Seattle and Las Vegas because it feels like they are. They are the front runners. They're the teams, you know, the cities that we always talk about. Seattle, obviously we want them to get supersonics back.

B (3:36)

Absolutely.

A (3:37)

Yeah. I think that. That the NBA probably can't expand to any city that doesn't include Seattle. Right.

B (3:44)

No question.

A (3:45)

If they're going to do one team, it's got to be Seattle. And if it's going to teams, one of them has to be Seattle. So that one's done. Yeah. I think the Vegas conversation probably should be a little bit, you know, expanded a little bit. It feels like it's just going to happen. And when you look at what's happening in Las Vegas, sports wise, the Aces are successful, the Knights in the NHL, pretty successful. They've been running the NBA cup there now. Yep. Success. I don't know. I mean, you're not really selling tickets to that, but it's a tough thing to sell tickets for. Summer league obviously has been there for a long time. The A's are moving there. I mean, is this just like, hey, we're going to throw another thing there and it goes by the wayside? I don't know. I don't know how this stuff works in a place like Vegas.

B (4:32)

So from the boring business side of things, like, economically, I guess it makes sense for the NBA to have a Vegas team just because that seems like where other leagues are headed.

A (4:43)

Right.

B (4:43)

You talked about the NHL, you talked about the NFL. Obviously the wnba, the MLB is also going to be there at some point. So I think Vegas makes sense from like a logistical business standpoint, but from a fan perspective, I've always enjoyed the fact that Vegas was a neutral site. Like it was the Comic Con for NBA fans to go to in summer league, in NBA cup. Like, to be like, this is the one area where there is no rooting interest. Now, that being said, Lakers fans change that because it is a Lakers town. Like Vegas is a Lakers town. From the first NBA cup we went to, we saw how loud and, and how obviously how much the Lakers fans can travel to Las Vegas. I wonder if you're able to build up that fan reputation. I don't know, like, do well for

A (5:33)

Phoenix is also not far. I mean, the, the TV stuff I think is tricky for the NBA. But that, again, I don't, I don't know.

B (5:40)

I guess I feel I, like, from my point of view, where else is

A (5:43)

Vegas the right choice? Right.

B (5:45)

Yeah.

A (5:45)

What about Kansas City? Right. There's, there's basketball history there. What about a place like Louisville that has, you know, obviously Kentucky's got huge basketball roots, especially in college. I mean, I know a lot of people bring up like Raleigh, Durham. I, I, I don't know. Could be interesting. You got the Carolina Hurricanes. They've been successful there. I do think that it's, I hope.

B (6:07)

Can I give you some outside of the box recommendations?

A (6:11)

Are they all going to be Canada?

B (6:12)

No, two of them will be.

A (6:14)

Montreal would be interesting, right?

B (6:15)

I think Montreal would be interesting. I think, by the way, like grassroots Montreal probably has some of the best Canadian basketball out there right now, which is like another aspect to this thing. I think Quebec is like a blossoming basketball province here in Canada. Vancouver would be interesting just because you would be adding two teams right across the border from each other. I don't know how much that would work.

A (6:37)

Defeating maybe, but you could be establishing a rivalry. Vancouver, though. I want those people to drive down from Vancouver. Okay.

B (6:46)

Okay. The other, the other team that I think everybody kind of brings up, option wise, Mexico City, how do you feel?

A (6:53)

I think that the logistics of that are a little bit tougher, you know.

B (6:57)

Yeah.

A (6:58)

From the security standpoint and, and just flying in, honestly, from traffic. Traffic standpoint, traffic is pretty bad. I know that from talking to people that went and covered the games that it was pretty difficult to get from airport to hotel to the arena. Yeah. And to do that every day, I think would be pretty tricky. I would, I mean, I would love that. I mean, you know, anything to add some more culture to the NBA would be good. And you know, then there's the entire NBA Europe thing that I, you know, I wonder how much that factors into this, you know, more to be seen on that. But I want to take this conversation away from just Seattle and Vegas or wherever. Does the league need two more teams when they've got nine or 10 that are actively losing?

B (7:41)

Right.

A (7:42)

I mean, is the Talent pool there, Right. This is adding 30 roster spots, six new two ways. You're gonna have two G League teams. Isn't there, like a little bit of a risk there that you're watering things down?

B (7:55)

I think this is kind of Adam Silver's NBA at this point, you know, is more parody. More parody. Creating as much parody as possible. And that's had some adverse effects to your point about tanking and like, allowing a wider range of teams to lose, which I think the NBA is trying to address at this point. But if you think about just in general, the talent pool, of course there are going to be protected players, but there still will be players from OKC and San Antonio and Boston, and whoever that will go unprotected will get picked up by one of these teams. And so maybe the talent pool won't get depleted that much. It will just get evenly spread out a little bit more. And I do think there is a level of basketball talent out there. I mean, you know, this from. From watching Europe and like, being able to see the talent out there.

A (8:47)

I don't know.

B (8:47)

I feel like there's enough good basketball players to. To add 30 more rocks.

A (8:51)

Good is not NBA, though.

B (8:53)

And.

A (8:53)

And there is a difference. And I. I have seen a lot of basketball and a lot of different levels and a lot of different gyms, and those NBA guys are so. They are so different than. Than guys who are not NBA G leaguers are not NBA players.

B (9:06)

You're.

A (9:06)

And I do believe adding if 10G leaguers are in the league, they stand out. Right. I mean, you know, the guys that are. That are roster spot guys that feel like G leakers and they stand out. And I do think that that is an issue. That being said, it's also going to be two more max spots, you know, supermaxes. I'm sorry. I'm sure there's some way that those teams are going to be able to immediately be in on free agency.

B (9:30)

Yeah.

A (9:31)

And so that could also shake things up a little bit.

C (9:35)

I'm just not.

A (9:35)

I don't. I don't know. I don't know if there's enough talent. And I do think that there is got to be a little bit of a worry about 30 new players in the NBA. And what is that?

B (9:45)

I mean, like, look, we already have, like with the Brooklyn Nets, like Michael Porter Jr. Is leading a team right now. Right. You know, with the Sacramento Kings, you have Zach lavine.

A (9:55)

So who's the. Who's the next, you know, the. The worst version of that. Right. Because that's essentially what it would be because Michael Porter Jr. Would be protected.

B (10:03)

Yeah, he would be.

A (10:05)

Yeah.

B (10:05)

I, I guess that's the argument against it.

A (10:07)

It's like Dorian Finney Smith averaging 30.

B (10:10)

No, I would say like Peyton Pritchard. Although I think the Celtics probably keep Payton Pritchard. But that type of player ends up Case and Wallace. You know, we got a lot of Oklahoma City.

A (10:21)

I think Casey Wallace is protected. You know, we, we did this with our, our live stream a couple weeks ago.

B (10:27)

We need to do the expansion, full expansion.

A (10:29)

I do believe that we're gonna have to pull off the expansion draft this week. But I, you know, I, I'd love to hear from you guys if you're listening or watching on YouTube, what you think because I, I'm, I do have real concern that it waters it down. The other thing I will say is this. Hold on. Okay, real quick. This could also be an opportunity to go down from 82 games.

B (10:50)

I was actually just going to bring that up.

A (10:51)

Perfect. Great minds think alike there. And, and so if you can get it down from 82 games, maybe it's worth adding more players. And, and then it does distribute the load a little bit and you know, you get them down to 76 games or something like that. I, I'm not sure. I do think that if they're going to do expansion, it's a great time to just bake in a bunch of other fixes too.

B (11:11)

Yeah. I mean if you're thinking of the monetary aspect, like all of that money is going to be coming in with the $10 billion.

A (11:20)

Whatever estimation, whatever it ends up being.

B (11:24)

Money is a lot.

A (11:24)

You know, six were six.

B (11:26)

Sure. I just don't think 7 billion, whatever it ends up being. I don't know what it is but like $14 billion worth of money being thrown into the NBA. I think that's enough for us to say let's reduce 10 games and that

A (11:41)

is the owner's pot. That is not basketball related income. So yeah, little CBA wrinkle there. Anyway guys, stick around after the break. We've got Dan Wookie to talk about the Lakers big win over the Rockets. And are they seriously contenders. Foreign. The Lakers somehow keep winning even though we doubted them. S right. Dan Wick is here. He was in Houston last night to watch the Lakers beat the Rockets. They got a series so they, they're going to play again on, on Wednesday. And this is massive because if the Lakers they, they win last night. 192 Luka Doncic has another huge game MVP type of game if they win on Wednesday, I mean they kind of put themselves in pole position for the three seed.

C (12:46)

Yeah, it's first of all, hello guys. It's great to see you both.

A (12:50)

We did that off camera so, you know.

C (12:53)

But see, like, I want to let everybody know that I am happy to be here. That I am. I think. Where do we want to start here? Like, do we want to start with like what happened, you know, in Houston here on Monday? Do we want to do big picture?

A (13:10)

All right, I want to start with Houston.

C (13:12)

Okay, let's like two things happened. One, just an awful, awful offensive game from really both. Yeah, both teams, but really Houston. Right. And the difference in the game, honestly was you mentioned Luka Donagic, that is that like his individual scoring, his ability to get a tough bucket when they need it down the stretch. I mean this is a game in which the Lakers won the fourth quarter. 17:12 Ugly game. Guess who has looked terrible in ugly games for most of the season? The Los Angeles Lakers. This is not. This is like that's what's been weird about a little bit of the stretch is like it's been kind of like bizarro Lakers in some ways from a lot of what we thought about them earlier in the year. I'll give you this one, for instance, right. Like deandre Aiden, not a player in the past who's been known for like his steadiness necessarily. Right. Or his sacrifice and different things like that. I just talked to him in the hallway about all of this stuff. I'm going to write about it here in the next couple of days. But like, you know, deandre Ayton sits on that bench for I don't know, like an hour and a half of like actual real time here. Played a really short shift early in the third quarter. Not playing well. Only basket I think he had scored was goaltended. And you know, the Lakers have a possession here in the, in the fourth quarter where Houston gets I think four offensive rebounds and the Lakers have a decision to make. Like, what are we going to do? Who is going to be our fifth player? Are we going to play small? Are we going to go to Jackson Hayes? We've closed with in the past who didn't have a good game and they go to deandre Ayton. They did the same thing against Denver and now this is two games in a row where he has responded and made winning plays and crunch time of important games. Huge stuff for this team. Right? By no means am I saying like they have the number one pick at Their access. Like it's not that type of thing. But what it is, is, it, it's trust. Right? Like, and this is a team that I think to pull back a little bit is a team that I'm seeing that's starting to trust one another. And I think that's come with time. I think it's come with sacrifice. I think it's come with, I mean, honestly, mostly time. I'm going to repeat it. It's mostly time. I, I, I wrote something that. Am I allowed to discuss some of the competition? I can do that, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. I wrote something after Charles Barkley was like, this team is not contenders following the Clippers game.

A (15:51)

We've been saying the same thing though. I mean.

C (15:53)

No, no, I was going to say. Yeah, no, and I, and I think like I didn't say that he was wrong either. I said that I thought it was an incomplete data set. And I think the most, the Lakers had a fairly, fairly simple problem in front of them. They have three great on ball players, right? And two of them are in their late 20s, like in their primes or entering their primes. And one is like the craziest story of longevity in pro sports history. Right? Like this is the problem. How do we solve this? Who is going to step backwards? Who's going to do a little bit less? Like how do we figure this out? Because we can't all do everything we're capable of. That's the type of thing that takes, it has, it seems like such a simple solution, but it's complicated. There's ego at play. There are people that are trying to do the right thing. I think, you know, like, you know, down just downsizing from a rhythm standpoint, from, you know, being a 25% usage player to a 19% usage player. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it is. This is why guys can't do it. And I mentioned deandre Ayden, he had to do it this season, all season. We were just talking about this like reframing success in a way. You know, you had the Lakers win a game on Sunday and part of this is like we can't help ourselves but. Sorry, I'm ranting. Part of it is we can't help ourselves, but part of it is also like, guess what was a huge play in the game? The NBA's all time leading scorer diving for a loose.

B (17:27)

Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah, yeah.

C (17:29)

You know what I mean? And like you have the number one overall pick in the underrating, you know, giving you three Good minutes to close out a win. You know, getting two huge rebounds.

B (17:39)

Yeah.

A (17:39)

Getting a huge test at the end. He.

C (17:42)

Yeah.

A (17:43)

Honestly, I think there was a thing where he got so roasted for his Clint Capella comment.

C (17:48)

He's.

B (17:49)

But also he's actually playing like. Yeah, he's playing like Clint.

A (17:53)

That's what he's doing. Yeah. To his credit.

C (17:56)

Well, and. And look, and I don't want to. I don't want to pretend to know what he was thinking when he said that. I heard him say it. I don't think it was a shot in the way that people thought it was. I do think that this is a guy who spent his whole life getting the ball thrown to him in the post or in the pocket and being told he could shoot 18 times. And he's on a team now where he plays games where he shoots three times. And that is. It sounds like I'm carrying water for him. I don't think I am. I think I'm trying to just sort of like. I think it's complex. I think the LeBron situation is complex. I think Luka learning how to trust these guys is complex. I think Austin Reeves, like, figuring out that he doesn't need to, like, step back, he needs to step in and, you know, is complex. And it makes sense to me. And this is what I was trying to get piece that it would take 60 some odd games, especially considering they didn't have a training camp together, especially considering, you know, Reeves missed a month plus, you know, just as like, they were starting to like, kind of tackle some of these questions. I think on its face, like, it shouldn't be that surprising when you consider it through that lens now. It is surprising when you add the other secondary narrative. Right. Which is that this was a Lakers team that's record didn't reflect, you know, what. What we thought they were. They didn't beat anybody. Good. I think the stat was. It was like they had lost either 11 or 12 straight games as underdogs, which I thought was like a pretty tough. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, so what have they done this week, like, in the past nine days? They beat the Knicks. They were underdogs in that game. They beat Minnesota. They were underdogs in that game. They beat Denver. I. If they were favorites, it was slight.

B (19:48)

Right.

C (19:49)

You know, they win that game. I would imagine if they weren't underdogs tonight, it was close again, like. Like they're winning coin flip games against teams with as good a records, and

A (19:58)

a lot of it's been defense Which I think is something that is the biggest surprise.

C (20:03)

Totally.

B (20:03)

That zone defense that we talked about, we talked about it on the show yesterday, but they're running that zone more frequently. I mean, we saw it tonight against the Rockets a little bit too. But they've, they've found.

C (20:14)

And they can like. And they can sort of morph out of it too, right? It's like sometimes it's zone, sometimes it's man, it looks like Z. It's actually man, sometimes it looks like man, but it's actually zone. That's been. Yeah, they've sort of made it work, I think. Big picture guys, right? I mean, have they for you guys put to bed any kind of like, can Luca and Austin Reeves be a viable backcourt?

B (20:37)

I've always truthfully believed in those two as a backcourt together. I mean, obviously the defensive stuff mostly has to do with the rest of the roster. Like how are you going to build out top 10, top five defense with that group eventually? That's a down the road question. Like you have to kind of figure out how those two work together on offense before anything. And I mean they've played their best basketball. Especially early in the season when it was just Luca and, and Austin. It felt like they were playing some really good basketball. And now reincorporating LeBron has been the big question. But I, I kind of, I'm curious, Dan, because now Lakers are coming up the standings, right? Third in the Western Conference. Luca has this monster game against the Rockets. He's leading the league in scoring. Why isn't the Luca MVP case a little bit louder?

C (21:28)

I think he had a bad December or a bad like kind of like he had a bad month at a time when the team kind of stunk. And that might have knocked them out of some of that conversation.

B (21:41)

Right.

C (21:41)

I think again, this idea that the Lakers are sort of like a house of cards type of team I think has hurt them when it comes to that type of stuff that like, yeah, they're 12 games above.500 and yeah, Luka is the leading scorer and like, yeah, he was player of the month in January, but, but like, you know, he's having a good game against the Nets, you know, or he's playing good against the Wizards. Like what's he doing?

A (22:10)

Right.

C (22:11)

You know, like when it, like when they've got to beat a good team and they hadn't, they just hadn't performed in those games. I think being on the ground around it, like you could see the seedlings of it. Like they lost to the Thunder In Los Angeles. That is a game they for sure should have won. They should have beaten Oklahoma City. They. I mean, that was a game without Shane, without Luka. They were in position to win that game. That was their. Like, they coughed it away in the fourth quarter. They got blown out by Boston. They had like five miserable minutes in the second quarter of that game. Like, miserable. Where it was like sort of like they had briefly possessed and totally forgot Richard went bananas. Yeah. And like, so, like, even in, like, even in those losses, you could like, being there, you kind of see it. I mean, like, you know, the loss they had in Phoenix, which was like a real low point, being around the team like that was as upset as they've been after a locker room. That was the game when who hit that. Who had the game winner against them? Royce o' Neill, that, you know, after the game, like, just real, real disappointment. I think the stat that I had in that game was they were outscored by like, something like 24 points or something like that in three minutes. If you took three different, like, stretches, it was like 24 to nothing. They had these three little lightning bolts where they like, kind of lost their way. But, like, otherwise they were 27 points better for. I think it was 44 minutes. Over 44 minutes. Again, they were like 27 points better than the Phoenix Suns in that game. They've just kind of figured out ways to get around some of those mistakes. They've done it with effort. They've done it with being healthy too, quite frankly. Like, a lot of these teams in their sort of this race haven't been. Aren't as healthy as the Lakers are right now. I think that's part of it. But again, I think it makes. If you take a step back, I think it makes some sense to say that, like, hey, this group of smart players at the top of the roster who had a problem in front of them to solve and have shown a willingness to try and solve it eventually kind of start to get it.

A (24:20)

I'm glad you mentioned the effort because that actually was a huge problem for them. And game like last night, you can point to the effort from all the guy, I mean, Austin Reeves, 100, putting an effort in on defense. You know, that's not right.

C (24:34)

From three. Oh, oh, for eight. From three is a plus 11.

A (24:37)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and, well, and LeBron, I mean, talk about him accepting a new role. I mean, down the stretch of that game, he's guarding a guy. I mean, I mean, he's way out of position. Guarding, guarding. The ball. But he was guarding the ball and aggressively looking to make turnovers and stuff. So we're looking ahead to the playoffs already. Right. We talked about the Lakers in pole position right now for the three seed. Who do they want to see in the first round?

C (25:04)

I mean, it's a great question. I think, you know, they prefer a buy. If they could figure out some way to argue that.

B (25:10)

Good luck.

A (25:11)

Well, it's the Lakers. The league might give it to them. They should just ask.

C (25:14)

They got Luca. I mean, I think they. They have played Minnesota well and I know that sounds crazy. I think they would like, enjoy the opportunity to try to like, get a get back. They've beaten them three times this year. They've beaten them with LeBron. I don't think they've beaten him with LeBron. Actually. They've beaten him twice with, you know, Austin and Luka. Once without Luka, with just Austin. He had a game winner in Minnesota.

A (25:42)

Right?

C (25:42)

Yeah, that. That is, you know, their 30 in that. I mean, they've played Denver well as well. You know, I, I guess if you had to pick, it would be the Timberwolves, but like, or maybe the Rockets.

B (25:57)

So any of them really. Any of the teams.

A (26:00)

I think Houston's offense is suspect.

C (26:03)

Guys, it feels like. And again, we can go into like, can they beat the Thunder? Can they beat the Spurs? We'll figure that out. I. I just. I don't know. It. It never felt like impossible to me that like this team would play in the three six or the four or five and win. Like, that seems totally plausible. It seemed plausible to me for a long time. Like they have Luka, Dodge, Austin, Reeves and LeBron James.

B (26:26)

Yeah, you never want to face that.

C (26:28)

That was always like, like my North Star on that. And then I think you're starting to see kind of some of the other pieces around it. Guys, I ha. We've gone way too long. I haven't said this yet. Marcus Smart has had excellent.

B (26:39)

He has been great.

C (26:40)

Awesome two months. Yeah, he's had an awesome two months.

A (26:43)

He hitting big shots and has done

C (26:45)

little stuff too and has done a little stuff for them behind the scenes. You know, when I was speaking with DeAndre8 and just now G. He explicitly gave Marcus Smart credit for kind of talking to him, trying to keep him engaged and different things like that. He's been great. Has been, you know, that switch to get him in the turn on. And by the way, hey, also that the acceptance of Rui Hachimura to take the best job in a free Agent year in a free agency year in a contract year. Like plenty of players would be miserable about that. And instead Rui is like one of the most well liked guys on the team. Great attitude and different things like that. And they'll come in and make some shots. I think you're starting to just, it's starting to make some sense. They still have problems, you know what I mean? And they're still incomplete in a lot of ways. But you know, I used to say like their pathway to like quote unquote contention. Like you had to really squint to see it. I think we're, it's like you can open your eyes a little bit. It's still a squint, it's still a little bit of a squint, but it's not as bad.

B (27:50)

Would it shock me if they were in the conference finals? It shouldn't anymore. Yeah, maybe a couple months ago it would have, but right now I, I

A (27:59)

no, it would leave in more and more by the day. And then we, we keep saying, you get these guys in a playoff series, nobody should want to play him. Yep, Luka is going to be the best player potentially in any series.

C (28:12)

And I think like, you know, a lot of it is still going to come down to defensive energy, execution. I was speaking to a Scott about this a few days ago. I thought it was a really, really smart conversation. I'm sorry. Answer he had. The conversation was totally stupid. I was having it, but I was smart enough to listen when he said this. We talked about the series again last year with the Timberwolves when I will stand on the hill and scream to anybody that will listen. That defense was not the, that series. They could not score in the fourth quarter of games. They were, they had leads like they went totally stagnant. They couldn't get the ball in the basket. This person was like part of the reason why was the way they have to defend because they can't, they don't have traditional ball containment is they scramble and that takes energy and that energy comes with a cost.

B (28:59)

Well, especially because they didn't have a center either. So it was like, let's rotate, let's switch everything.

C (29:04)

So, so, you know, and they still that like that's. There are elements of their defense now that are built around this, like, sort of like covering for one another, playing with effort, playing with intensity, you know. And again in this game tonight, 17 points in the fourth quarter, not great. I do think though, their shot creation, their energy, I think they're in better shape than they were a year ago. You know, I know I'm in better shape than I was a year ago, but like, I think I took the, I took the challenge too. Just in case. I think like, you know, that's the thing I'm watching is like this type of like style now. They started it earlier last year. Was it right around, like right around the middle of January, like they became like weirdly like JJ called it like a group of banshees. A try hard team, whatever. What it was like they started playing harder than basically everybody they played each night and they won a lot of games that way last year. Had a great defense because of it. Then the playoffs came and like there was a cost. I, I it. This doesn't feel as taxing right now.

A (30:09)

Sure.

C (30:09)

It just doesn't.

A (30:11)

Yeah, I think we'll see. Also got some, you got some better guys this year and I think that'll make a big difference too.

B (30:17)

Yeah.

A (30:17)

Anyway, guys, go and read Dan at the Athletic. Thank you to Dan Wookie for hanging out. Thanks to Esper Henny. As always, I'm Dave Dufour. This has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for hanging out with us, Sam.