Steve Kerr on dealing with Father Time + Saving or scrapping the NBA Cup

Summary

The Athletic NBA Daily: Steve Kerr on Dealing with Father Time + Saving or Scrapping the NBA Cup

Date: December 27, 2025
Host(s): Zena Keda, Robert Mays, Jason Goff
Special Guests: Sam Amick (The Athletic), Steve Kerr (Golden State Warriors Head Coach)

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Overview

This episode of The Athletic NBA Daily centers on major shifts within the NBA: the fate and impact of the NBA Cup, the ongoing load management debate, and a candid conversation with Warriors coach Steve Kerr about the end of an era, athlete longevity, and his own professional crossroads. The hosts are joined by NBA insider Sam Amick and, in a show highlight, Steve Kerr himself, for thoughtful and often intimate insight into the game, its players, and the future.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. The NBA Cup: Purpose, Reaction, and Future

Timestamps: 02:51–08:09

• Visual Experience & Court Designs:

  • Hosts debate the garish aesthetics of NBA Cup courts.
    • Jason Goff (02:51): "I'm more worried about my visual experience watching these crazy courts..."
    • Zena Keda (03:06): "It's a little epileptic. Sometimes I feel like I gotta pull my readers out..."
    • Sam Amick (03:30): "I want Miami. I love Miami's Club Miami..."

• Cup’s Success and Relevance:

  • The Knicks’ recent NBA Cup win sparks talk of how meaningful the Cup is, tradition-building, and what it delivers compared to European soccer tournaments.
    • Sam Amick (05:45): "You’re kind of trying to fake it till you make it with the NBA Cup, but you know, I think they're going in the right direction."
  • Long-term potential for the Cup as a coveted prize for future generations, referencing how LeBron celebrated the first one.
    • Robert Mays (07:35): “…I think 20 years down the line, you’re gonna want kids to be like, hey, I wanna win an NBA Cup at some point."

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2. Load Management and the Modern NBA Schedule

Timestamps: 08:09–14:23

• Physical Toll & Frequency of Player Absences:

  • Rising injuries, especially calf strains and Achilles injuries among stars, are discussed.
    • Sam Amick (08:56): "…the nuance there on the injury front is that calf strains in particular are up and you’re talking about big time star players..."
    • Robert Mays (09:48): "There were eight Achilles tears last year..."
  • Modern style (pace, specialized moves) and AAU-overloaded path to the NBA are factors in injury rates and career longevity.
    • Robert Mays (11:17): "People don’t play other sports nowadays, so…you’ve got thousands of games on your body."
    • Jason Goff (11:24): "You played AAU from the time you were 8 years old."

• Load Management’s Double-Edged Sword:

  • The panel acknowledges fans’ disappointment when stars don’t play but also defends the need for player health, referencing how old-school "just play" thinking no longer fits.
    • Sam Amick (12:23): "…it has not aged well in terms of the simple idea that just get the hell out there and play."
  • Economic/broadcast realities put tension on the league’s priorities vs. in-person fan experience.
    • Sam Amick (14:23): "…the dirty little secret is that the fans in the arena, like, it is a very flawed experience. And the league's focus…extends well beyond the arena."

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3. “Clunky” End-of-Game Situations in the NBA

Timestamps: 14:53–18:34

• Late-Game Fouling and Flow:
  • Hosts react to criticism of "herky jerky" NBA finishes, especially the drawn-out endings with repeated intentional fouls.
    • Zena Keda (15:22): "It sucks for the flow of the game…I became a fan at that moment and…I vividly remember finding myself slowly getting back down in my seat because it ended up being a competition of free throw routines..."
  • Discussion of the Elam Ending (used in All-Star Games and other leagues) as a possible, if radical, solution.
    • Sam Amick (17:21): "…that is most often the possible solution that gets brought up…You go back to 2020, they integrated that into the All Star game…and it worked for a year."
  • Split opinions: Is intentional fouling necessary drama or a detriment to NBA closers’ skills?
    • Robert Mays (17:44): "To me, like, watching a player not be able to shoot free throws, I think…it speaks to talent evaluation. It speaks to roster [construction]."

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4. Main Story: Steve Kerr – Aging, Dynasties, and the Future

Timestamps: 21:17–35:07

Athlete Longevity & Personal Insight

• New generation (LeBron 41, Steph & KD 37): Kerr reflects on how much science, training, and resources have changed, allowing stars to play longer—if they have the love for it.
  • Steve Kerr (22:21): “Michael Jordan was probably the first guy to ever have his own private trainer. Now, every player...has a private trainer…Because we love it so much…these days you can keep going till 40 or longer.”
• Candid about his own retirement:
  • Steve Kerr (23:42): "My knees are killing me. It's time.”
  • Steve Kerr (24:52): "…the only guys who keep going and play at a high level are the ones who love what they do…When it was time, it was time."

On Dynasties: Realization and Closure

• As someone involved in three dynastic teams, Kerr describes how you recognize (or sometimes miss) those moments and when you feel the end approaching.

  • Steve Kerr (24:52): “With the Bulls…they were already a dynasty…With the Spurs…I don’t know that I even knew I was part of a dynasty while I was there…And then this one [Warriors] sort of snuck up on us.”

• Regarding the Warriors' Dynasty:

  • Steve Kerr (25:46): “Well, it is closing as we speak…what we’re hanging onto is the idea that we still have something left in the tank…there is something beautiful in the fight, in the quest.”

Making the Call to Walk Away (or Not)

• Kerr acknowledges the reality that very few players/coaches get to retire by choice rather than injury or being forced out.

  • Steve Kerr (27:18): “…the vast majority of players either leave because of injury or because the team no longer wants them. And I worry about a lot of guys who retire and aren’t sure what to do with themselves…”

• On his post-coaching future—uncertain, possibly harder than retiring as a player:

  • Steve Kerr (28:17): “I think I might go through that when I retire from coaching because it’s going to be a much more difficult transition for me. But I don't know what I'm going to do..."

Will He Stick Around for a Warriors Rebuild?

• Kerr is direct that he's not interested in rebuilding elsewhere, and his bond with Curry is a real one.

  • Steve Kerr (32:31): "First of all, I will never leave Steph Curry. I can tell you that. I love that.”

• On what might end his coaching career? The grind of travel and late nights, not just losing or roster changes.

  • Steve Kerr (32:43): “I think the one thing that I think will take me out of coaching is the travel. Honestly…”

Notable Quote on Legacy and Satisfaction

• Steve Kerr (34:24): "I don’t have a bucket list. I don't have, you know, a list of things that I have to accomplish, and then I'm done…A wise man once said, life happens while we’re making plans, and I believe that."

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5. Panel Reaction to Kerr & the NBA’s Future

Timestamps: 35:23–39:22

• Sam Amick notes that Kerr seems “seriously contemplating what comes after this season,” highlighting the real possibility that the Warriors’ dynasty is in its final chapter. (35:23)
• Zena notes seeing Kerr visibly pause and reflect, “it was hard for him to find the words, to figure out what that next step is.” (35:52)
• Hosts discuss the upcoming passing of the torch—whether the league is in good hands as "the uncles" (LeBron, Steph, KD) approach retirement. Young stars like SGA, Luka, Jokic, Wemby come up as evidence the league will stay strong, but concern is noted about the state of American-bred basketball.
  • Robert Mays (37:09): "I'm worried about American basketball in a way that I haven't been in a long time...American basketball still has to be propped up a little bit."
  • Sam Amick (37:51): "I love where the league's at because I know the American thing is going to work itself out...the idea that you can have the ascension of the young stars coming at a time when those Unks...are still doing it at this level."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cup Aesthetics:
  Zena Keda (03:06): “Take me to the pits of hell. I want the Rockets. I want the Indiana. Miami...I love Miami's Club Miami.”
• On the NBA Cup:
  Sam Amick (05:45): “We know the tenor of this conversation, which is, it's not a championship...But absolutely...the Knicks are a really good team. They won the, you know, this championship. I don’t see them winning the whole thing. But the allure of the cup that I do like is...the vibes are good.”
• On Load Management:
  Sam Amick (12:23): “It has not aged well in terms of the simple idea that just get the hell out there and play.”
• On Coaching Longevity:
  Steve Kerr (32:43): “I think the one thing that I think will take me out of coaching is the travel. Honestly...”
• On Purpose and Satisfaction:
  Steve Kerr (34:24): “A wise man once said, life happens while we’re making plans, and I believe that.”
• On Not Leaving Steph:
  Steve Kerr (32:31): "First of all, I will never leave Steph Curry. I can tell you that."

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Breakdown by Major Segments

| Segment | Main Topic(s) Covered | Notable Quotes | Start Time | |--------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------|------------| | NBA Cup Aesthetics and Relevance | Wild court designs, tradition-building | "It's a little epileptic..." | 02:51 | | Load Management Reality | Injuries, scheduling, fan frustrations | "It has not aged well..." | 08:09 | | End-of-Game Problem-Solving | Fouling, Elam Ending, flow of the game | "It sucks for the flow of the game..." | 14:53 | | Steve Kerr on Longevity, Dynasties, Future | Candid interview, retirement, meaning of success | "Michael Jordan was the first..." | 21:17 | | Panel Reflection on NBA’s Future | Passing the torch, global vs. American basketball | "I'm worried about American basketball..."| 36:39 |

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Final Thoughts

The episode delivers a nuanced, insightful discussion on NBA tradition vs. innovation, the realities of athlete longevity, and the bittersweet transition that faces today’s iconic stars and coaches. Steve Kerr’s wisdom about both basketball and life stands out, with moments of humor and genuine reflection. As the NBA navigates the present and plans for a post-LeBron/Curry era, both the league and Kerr himself are—like many listeners—“hanging in for one more run,” savoring the journey as much as the destination.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host Andrew Schlecht]

This podcast is sponsored by Royal Kingdom, an amazing mobile game that's super fun, free to play, and has no annoying ads. This time of year there is a lot of travel and family time and Royal Kingdom is the perfect escape because it doesn't need any wi fi, making it perfect for planes, trains and just a quiet break in the other room. Royal Kingdom is a story driven Match three puzzle with stunning graphics. It's relaxing but has challenging levels. Royal Kingdom is part of an expanding universe filled with high quality animations and memorable characters. I personally love to play a few levels during a timeout in whatever NBA game I'm watching or even while I'm listening to my favorite podcasts. So what are you waiting for? Join the fun and download Royal Kingdom on the App Store or Google Play today. Welcome to the Athletic NBA Daily. This is Andrew Schlecht. I'm not hosting the show today. I just wanted to give you an update on what's happening with the show today. We are actually going to air an episode of the Athletic show which has a really good show that is on Fire TV. It's on YouTube. It's also on your podcast Catcher, something worth subscribing to. We have Xena Keda, Robert Mays, Jason Goff host the show on a weekly basis. Our guy Sam Amick is on the show today and then kind of the star of the show. Here is Xena's interview with Golden State warriors head coach Steve Kerr who gives a really candid interview. I thought it would be Worth you guys listening to if you haven't listened to it yet. We really appreciate you guys tuning in. Hope everybody is enjoying the holiday. Hope you had a good Christmas. And we'll be back with you guys early next week. But wanted to share this episode of the Athletic show with you. And here it is right now.

[Jason Goff]

Whether we think the cup is good or bad or should continue, how it affects the schedule, all of those things are secondary to me. I'm more worried about my visual experience watching these crazy courts and trying to keep track of it. This is one of my oldest man takes. I just can't be that stimulated.

[Zena Keda]

It's a little epileptic. Sometimes I feel like I gotta pull my readers out when I'm watching these games. It can, it can be. It's grown on me. But one thing I will say, I don't like the cop outs. I don't like the courts that are just gray. And then maybe one other. I hate that. Take me to the pits of hell. I want, I want the Rockets. I want the Indiana.

[Sam Amick]

I want Miami.

[Zena Keda]

Miami. I love Miami's Club Miami with their.

[Sam Amick]

Messaging in the key culture.

[Zena Keda]

Yes. I want something of like you clearly thought about this for a very long time or you woke up, asked your 4 year old what's their favorite color and you said, let's go.

[Robert Mays]

They just did it.

[Zena Keda]

Let's go.

[Robert Mays]

They just did it. They jumped on Microsoft paint and just knocked it out.

[Sam Amick]

Yeah.

[Zena Keda]

Welcome to the Athletics Show. I'm Zena Caida and joining me are Robert Mays and Jason Goff. This week we're focused on the NBA. The latest NBA cup is in the books and the Knicks kind of won a championship for the first time in a long time. But today we're going to discuss what we think of the NBA cup in general. If it's good or bad for the league and what it means for the load management debate for players. The Athletic's Sam Amick is here to discuss the pros and cons, not just of the cup, but the current state of the league as a whole. Plus, warriors head coach Steve Kerr sits down with me to talk about the closing of a generation of NBA players and, and what it might mean for his own future. Remember, you can catch the Athletic show first on fire TV every Saturday. Let's dig in. You guys ready?

[Robert Mays]

Let's get it.

[Jason Goff]

I know both of you are. I feel it.

[Zena Keda]

I can't wait. Let's do it. For once. The New York Knicks were the last team standing. Okay, not for the NBA Finals in June. For the NBA cup, though, you got to respect the Cup.

[Steve Kerr]

That's right.

[Robert Mays]

Respect the Cup.

[Zena Keda]

And because of respecting the cup, we've got the athletic Sam Amick here to help us break it all down and make sense of it all. Welcome, Sam.

[Sam Amick]

Thank you. Thank you for having me, guys.

[Zena Keda]

Thank you for coming. We actually saw each other in the casino, walking back and forth between the games or right before a game, I guess.

[Sam Amick]

We got the same schedule this week, basically.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, basically. It was really nice being in the press conference rooms and all that.

[Robert Mays]

Everybody's smiling, so it feels like everybody won, too.

[Jason Goff]

We got to go to Vegas in January or December. It's 20 degrees outside right now.

[Robert Mays]

One of the.

[Zena Keda]

But it wasn't that warm in Vegas.

[Sam Amick]

Players, they all want to go to Vegas. The league's not stupid. They know what they're doing.

[Zena Keda]

Exactly. It's like a nice little summit. Okay, so at this summit, this time, the Knicks stood at top. What do you think of the win? Do you think their tournament tough? Like Finals tough?

[Sam Amick]

I mean, first of all, Zen, I know you well enough that the smile on your face as you talked about the Cup. We know the tenor of this conversation, which is, it's not a championship. I. I'm kind of mad at James Nolan for not hanging the banner. I think that's a mistake. Also not consulting with his players, which is bad form. But absolutely, to put that on the side, the Knicks are a really good team. They won the, you know, this championship. I don't see them winning the whole thing. But the allure of the cup that I do like is whether it's the Knicks, you know, or the Bucks winning it in last year, or the Lakers before that, it shows contending teams, you know, so the spurs are now considered one of those. New York's got a good squad. The vibes are good. It sends that message to ownership and the fans that we got something to be excited about. As I was sitting on press row and in that game, Knicks win, the spurs fan base, the Jackals, as they call them, was. Was pretty sad, disappointed. And it was like you were in the Garden. There was this Knicks fan right to my left, and he's just waving goodbye and having a good old time with his jersey on. So for now, it's the best you can do in mid December.

[Jason Goff]

So that vibe around the cup, that's a good moment, right? Like, that's what the NBA is seeking out.

[Sam Amick]

Sure.

[Jason Goff]

Let's go through the process of why the cup is created and whether you think so far it's Been what the league wanted it to be.

[Sam Amick]

So a backdrop would be that, you know, the late David Stern obviously grew the league tremendously during his time passes the baton to Adam Silver. One of Adam's main tenets has been how can we globalize this thing? And so the cup is drawn from European soccer Champions League, all these different, you know, football leagues that mastered the art of having something mid season that mattered. Now the part where the NBA's got a long ways to go is that the history that comes with the Soccer cup championships is such that those players, those coaches, they are fully invested, the fans truly care. Nobody's debating about hanging banners. So you're kind of trying to fake it till you make it with the NBA Cup. But you know, I think they're going in the right direction.

[Robert Mays]

Those games don't count towards the standings. It would make it a lot easier, like you mentioned, for the block of games. But I think it's interesting because like you mentioned, and I know it's not for me as a current, like, you know, 45 year old NBA consumer, but 20 years down the line, the way that LeBron James celebrated that first one, I think 20 years down the line, you're gonna want kids to be like, hey, I wanna win an NBA cup at some point. Sure.

[Zena Keda]

People are genuinely happy and I think that, that, I mean one that's big for the Knicks, they need that, especially in this new year that they're in. But in general, I think the cup is working. They gotta build the tradition.

[Robert Mays]

The NBA cup seems like something that's trending up, but an omnipresent issue at all times around the NBA. And this generation is load management. John Holling discussed the NBA cup and load management at length in a recent article. I happen to be a believer. Long careers mean they need rest. So how does the NBA rationalize adding more games when it might mean fans see less of their favorite players? I think I heard a stat the other day that players, star players are missing one out of every three games as opposed to one out of every five at least three or four years ago. So there's an issue there and I think that a lot of people look at it as being lazy or they don't want to play. But there's actual physics and bodies involved in this situation and possessions and the style of play. How do you feel about load management right now in the league?

[Sam Amick]

Tons of layers to the conversation. At my core, I'm a guy who grew up in the 80s watching Michael Jordan and would love for Everybody to play 82. But the layers come into play where. First of all, to your question about the schedule and the condensed nature of it in relation to the cup that we talked about, the league pushed back really hard on this the other day. Adam Silver in his press conference said categorically that the data does not support the idea that the schedule is more condensed, does not support the idea that the injuries are up. The nuance there on the injury front is that calf strains in particular are up and you're talking about big time star players, Giannis Ano at the top of that list. And not only calf strains, but more extended time missed because of these calf strains. The other backdrop there is if you go back to the finals last year, Tyrese Haliburton calf strain Followed by Achilles KD2, right? KD in 2019.

[Zena Keda]

KD. Damian Lillard.

[Sam Amick]

Damian Lillard.

[Robert Mays]

There were eight Achilles tears last year.

[Zena Keda]

Jason Tatum alone. Yeah.

[Sam Amick]

So this is where. Career altering stuff, career altering stuff, season altering stuff, franchise altering stuff. If you look at some of the poster boys, so to speak, of this topic, Kawhi Leonard, Joel Embiid, players like that, as much as we criticize them in the past for sitting, you look up now, their careers are in danger of being shortened. And so, you know, it has not aged well in terms of the simple idea that just get the hell out there and play.

[Robert Mays]

The game's got a physics problem, I think too. You know, you mentioned the amount of possessions. It's as if we're asking a pitcher to pitch two more innings. Where we see pitchers sliding back, they're starting pitching workloads. It's a great comparison. If football added five minutes to a quarter, we'd see more injuries. And also the style too. Like James Harden made the step back and all these moves really cool. But the wear and tear on the joints that happen from a lot of the, These movements that are, you know, pretty rel. Relatively new to basketball in the last 10 to 12 years. There's, there's a whole, it's a long list of things as to why players are getting hurt at the rate that they're getting hurt at. And we can also get into the specialization. People don't play other sports nowadays, so you're getting that power. I remember seeing Derrick Rose as elementary and junior high school being wrapped up like Allen Iverson. It's like, wait a minute, why is this kid all taped up? Because he's playing so much basketball. So by the time you get to the league, next thing you know, you've got thousands of games on your body. You didn't play baseball, you didn't play soccer, you didn't play football.

[Jason Goff]

You played AAU from the time you.

[Robert Mays]

Were 8 years old.

[Jason Goff]

Tournaments every weekend, sheer amount of minutes.

[Robert Mays]

And we just spin it as these players don't want to play when in all actuality, their bodies are giving out on them because of the amount of possessions, because of the rate of play, because of how many games, and because of the lack of the rest they get. It's affecting the sport in a way that I don't think any other sport is being affected.

[Jason Goff]

Yeah.

[Zena Keda]

One thing I really struggle with, with the data that the NBA likes to propose is this, particularly the notion of, like, when the games are being scheduled. Right. Thinking. One of the things that they've pushed back on, particularly on John Hollinger's piece, was about how the games have been put on the calendar in comparison to previous years. But in my opinion, if you're looking at, okay, yes, it's been the same amount of games over a period of time. If a friend of mine get donuts, let's say we get 30 donuts, okay? And I eat mine all in the first week of the next 30 days, and my friend eats theirs one day at a time, I'm probably gonna get a stomachache first.

[Blue Apron Advertiser]

Right?

[Zena Keda]

Like, that's the issue.

[Sam Amick]

What an analogy. That was amazing.

[Zena Keda]

Right?

[Robert Mays]

I'm just saying, like, the dirty donut party.

[Blue Apron Advertiser]

Let's get that.

[Zena Keda]

And so I'm just like, this doesn't make that part of the data, doesn't make sense in terms of the calendar. But I do want to ask. You just talked about watching, you know, basketball in the 80s. I wasn't there. I wasn't there. I don't know.

[Sam Amick]

I was young.

[Zena Keda]

But I know that Michael Jordan has commented on this with NBC's very legendary insight by Mike. Insight with Mike.

[Robert Mays]

Sit downs with Mike.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, I don't remember where those went. But anyways, he talked about the fact that he always wanted to play. And we know that these players, even today, like, we've heard Joel Embiid talk about the fact that he's wanted to play. All these players, when they're doing load management, want to play. But what do we think about the physicality of this game and how it's leading them to having to sit even when they want to play. Is it tougher than when it. When you guys were watching in the 80s? Like, I don't get it. What's the difference?

[Robert Mays]

You're talking to this couch over here. When you guys are watching in the 80s, the old heads over OGs, the.

[Sam Amick]

Physicality has taken a major uptick the past couple years. I love it. It's not as physical as the 80s, but again, you know, it's a question of is it going to continue because you start integrating the load management conversation and the injuries. You know, I think the league worries about that. So the whistle could change over time, but right now it's. It's pretty physical.

[Jason Goff]

I understand all of these arguments. The pace of play, the same amount of possessions, the ground being covered, the increased physicality. And I do think the pitcher example is a great one because if you go to a baseball game and you had a starting pitcher, you watched Sandy Kovacs pick for nine innings, and now we're in an era where the starting pitchers, the stars, are pitching five, you do feel shortchanged a little bit, but that's progress in sports. That's how it works. But on the other side of it, if I'm a fan, maybe from a different city, or I'm watching a player come to my town for the first time, I get to watch Steph Curry.

[Zena Keda]

Or you travel thousands of miles from another country, thousands of dollars, and you.

[Jason Goff]

Get there and that guy isn't playing. I do think that there's an argument to be made that the fans should be taken into account here.

[Sam Amick]

I feel like in the league probably wouldn't love this narrative, but like the dirty little secret is that the fans in the arena like it is a very flawed experience. And the league's focus from a business building standpoint obviously extends well beyond the arena. It would be great if a ticket was 50 bucks and you could be like, oh, that's a bummer that Steph Curry didn't play tonight. Well, a ticket's not 50 bucks. It's a whole lot of cash. And so I don't blame any fans for being furious. I also see the logic if Steph's not feeling good and he's got some concern that he's going to sit, I.

[Jason Goff]

Want to zoom in a little bit. Eric Carine had a great article in the Athletic just about how painfully long the last 10 seconds of that Thunder spurs game were in the NBA Cup. And so this idea of late game fouling, intentional fouling, he was really zeroing in on fouling up three, which extends the game in a way that makes it kind of unwatchable. Where are we at Xena about just how long and how herky jerky and kind of sluggish these end of game situations feel in the NBA?

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, it sucks for the flow of the game. I was in this arena for that game with the thunderous spurs and I remember standing up towards the end of.

[Jason Goff]

The fourth quarter stretch a little bit.

[Zena Keda]

Well, yeah, well not only that, but also as a media member you're not supposed to be like bought into the game like that. But I became a fan at that moment and I didn't care who I was cheering for. I was so bout it. I vividly remember finding myself slowly getting back down in my seat because it ended up being a competition of free throw routines like let's who's got the best dribble, who's got the best follow through. Because it came down to that.

[Jason Goff]

There have been solutions, like kind of radical solutions. They tried it in the G league, they've done it other places where there's a target score at the end of the game. And so you remove just this very strange again, just kind of really dense feeling at the end of these games. But then you lose buzzer beaters. And so it feels like there's potentially like a middle ground to be found here. Sam, so what do you think is the right solution for how we're handling end of game situations where you get those moments but you also don't make Xena sit back down in her chair.

[Sam Amick]

I mean, I can relate to her story first of all, because I was in Vegas, but I didn't go to the Spurs Thunder game. And I'm watching that game on TV with my 16 year old who is a casual, right? And it was so fascinating to see him because when it was, you know, the last couple minutes, he's all about it, he's engaged. He does not get engaged on NBA basketball that often. And like you said, your version of sitting down and losing interest you. All of a sudden I look over there, he's on his phone like, man, I lost him. And that was it, like. And I'm sitting there watching. That's exactly why it's a problem for the league. That being said, I don't know the solution because the Elam ending, which is what you're talking about, you get rid of the clock, you have a target score, let's say it's 100 points. And it's just the first team to that score wins. Takes away the fouling, you know, takes away the clock. That's where the debate is. But that is most often the possible solution that gets brought up. You go back to 2020, they integrated that into the All Star game in Chicago and it worked for A year and that was it. Like they kept doing it after that. It kind of lost its luster. It, you know, go back to integrity of the game and things like that. I don't want to lose shot clock, buzzers.

[Jason Goff]

That feels too radical. Like, I feel like that's too far removed. But let's be, let's just propose this.

[Zena Keda]

You're not just coaching basketball, you're coaching against the clock too. Like that's part of the game.

[Jason Goff]

It should still feel like basketball as we understand, I think. And maybe this is too, this is too radical. I do not think you should be able to intentionally foul while winning the game in the final two minutes. I agree because I think that leads to the situations that we're talking about.

[Robert Mays]

To me, like watching a player not be able to shoot free throws, I think it's like it speaks to talent evaluation. It speaks to roster.

[Jason Goff]

Oh, you like the drive?

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[Robert Mays]

Ok. I like watching someone being put in a position of pressure and us saying we know that you can't handle this moment. Like that kind of cat and mouse game.

[Jason Goff]

I'll be honest with you, I learned something new about you every day. I didn't see you being the free throw contest guy. This surprises me.

[Robert Mays]

Listen in that moment, you know, and maybe it's because of ptsd, I have from, you know, junior high and grade school missing so many free throws, but.

[Zena Keda]

You just sparked mine.

[Sam Amick]

I missed one of those.

[Zena Keda]

You know the line, right?

[Sam Amick]

Game on the line.

[Robert Mays]

There are very few moments where you could put yourself in the, in the body of a 24 year old millionaire who's sitting there like, oh my goodness, everybody is watching this. And it comes down to this moment and we're in the middle of December. We're not talking playoffs too, right? So it adds to the stakes as well.

[Zena Keda]

Sam, stick around. I'm going to talk a little bit about Steve Kerr right after this.

[Podcast Host Andrew Schlecht]

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[Zena Keda]

So for our main story, we want to talk about the generational shift that's happening in the NBA. We know the LeBrons of the world, the Stephen Currys, KD's. They can't play forever and it's time to pass the baton. So who better to speak to about the changing of the guard than someone that's coached all three of them? And more Steve Kirk. So Steve was nice enough to sit down with me. We went to Chase center in San Francisco, had a beautiful look of the bay, and this was an exclusive interview. Okay. We also got a camera crew into practice. Only cameras that were allowed there the whole day. Behind the scenes peak of what's going on with the warriors in general. But got to see a little bit more about what Steve Kerr is thinking about his own Future as well as the future of the league. So let's take a look. Let's start with the shift in the NBA. LeBron, 41, Steph 37. KD as well, 37. You've gotten to coach all of these guys, whether it's been in the league, whether it's been at the Team USA level, Olympic level, and you've gotten to see their regimen and the way that they take care of their bodies. What is it that you've particularly pick that maybe was different from when you played or just in general impresses you the most?

[Steve Kerr]

Well, Michael Jordan was probably the first guy to ever have his own private trainer. Now, every player on our roster has a private trainer pretty much, you know, but when you start thinking about the money these guys are making, especially the guys at the top, LeBron and Steph, it's really no big deal for them to hire as many people as they want to help them with their body, their mind, their training. And so when you combine that with the knowledge that we have, I mean, when I talk to our training staff, what they know now compared to 15 years ago, is so extreme, so dramatic. And the only guys who keep going and play at a high level are the ones who love what they do. You know, Tom Brady is a great example. When you are obsessed with your craft, with what you're doing, you're putting all your time and effort and money into it. If you're talented on top of all that, then these days you can, you can keep going till 40 or longer. And it didn't used to be that way.

[Zena Keda]

I know the grim reaper's trying to knock on the door and his athletes, like, not yet. Not yet. What was your perspective when you saw the changing of the guard? You had already racked up five titles. What was your mindset when you made that decision to retire?

[Steve Kerr]

Well, the mindset for me was, my knees are killing me. It's time.

[Zena Keda]

That sounds like me every morning.

[Steve Kerr]

Yeah, yeah, it was just time. But, you know, it was probably a lot easier for me because I. I played 15 years. That was 15 more than I ever thought I would play. You know, I never thought I'd play in the NBA, so there was just a sense of gratitude that I had even, you know, been able to play in the NBA. But when it was time, it was time.

[Zena Keda]

So between Team usa, the spurs, right, The Bulls, and the Warriors, I feel like you're a dynasty expert. Like, I feel like you're the guy we should be asking.

[Steve Kerr]

I even played with the Celtics in the 60s with Bob Cousy. I don't know if you knew that.

[Sam Amick]

Yeah, we were back coordinates.

[Zena Keda]

We got to add that to the list. There we go. But if you. You know, I know some folks feel a different way about the word dynasty, but for what we've seen in terms of success in these teams that you've been a part of, what does it feel like to be in a dynasty? When do you realize, oh, snap, guys, we're dynastic. Right. And also, when do you realize when it's closing?

[Steve Kerr]

Yeah, it's a great question. And all three of those organizations that I was lucky enough to be part of, each case was a little different. With the Bulls, they were already a dynasty. They had won three in a row. So I knew I was joining a dynasty. And when it ended, everyone knew it ended. I mean, I don't know if you know this. They did a documentary called the Last Dance, the Spurs. I don't know that I even knew I was part of a dynasty while I was there, because, you know, we won two championships, 99 and 03. I retired, and the dynasty really happened after that. And it was a different kind of dynasty. It was sustained success over multiple years. And then this one sort of snuck up on us. We didn't really know, but once it did, we knew we were in the middle of it, and that was pretty cool.

[Zena Keda]

What do you think it's going to take for the Warriors Dynasty chapter to close?

[Steve Kerr]

Well, it is closing as we speak. We just don't know exactly when it's going to end. And what we're hanging onto is the idea that we still have something left in the tank. And if all the pieces fall into place, we think we have a shot. And so we're trying to. Trying to get one more. Can I just add one thing?

[Zena Keda]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve Kerr]

I think it's the attempt when you're in it that is the most important thing. Obviously, we all rings culture. We all focus on who won, but there is something beautiful in the fight, in the quest. And because we love it so much, because we love what we do, there really is a beauty in the journey to hang in there and maybe reach the top of the mountain one more time. But if we don't, and chances are we won't, like, we are not, you know, we're not a favorite to do it. But if we don't, and we still gave it the effort and had this experience together, that's worth a lot. But we all know inside what that journey means to us.

[Zena Keda]

Stephen Curry was asked about the likelihood that he would play to 40. He alluded to the ability of making that decision himself before the decision was made for him, being a crucial point in that. How often do you people have the privilege to make that decision?

[Steve Kerr]

The vast majority of players either leave because of injury or because the team no longer wants them. And I worry about a lot of guys who retire and aren't sure what to do with themselves and spend years sometimes figuring out what to do with the rest of their lives when they're only, you know, maybe 30, 35 years old. That's a big, big burden.

[Zena Keda]

Were you trying to figure things out when you've been a TV broadcaster for tnt, You've been a gm, you've been a part owner before. You've. My favorite fun fact, you've been a color commentator on NBA 2K.

[Steve Kerr]

That's right.

[Zena Keda]

That's. I mean, you've. You've kind of dabbled in all of it. And then, of course, being a coach now, thinking about your situation, of course, contracts coming up at the end of the year, the end line is coming for you, too. When you think about five years from now, say, Stefan Draymond, they've hung up their shoes. What does it look like for you to figure that out?

[Steve Kerr]

It's a great question. I was lucky. When I retired from playing, I didn't go through that because I went right into broadcasting. TNT offered me a job. I took it. I enjoyed it. I had young kids. I'm raising a family, still involved in the NBA and enjoying my life. I never went through that. I think I might go through that when I retire from coaching because it's going to be a much more difficult transition for me. But I don't know what I'm going to do. And that's a kind of a.

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[Robert Mays]

Zoe. This thing weighs a ton.

[Zena Keda]

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[Robert Mays]

Live with your legs, man.

[Steve Kerr]

Santa.

[Zena Keda]

Santa, did you get my letter? He's talking to you, Bridges. I'm not that. Of course he did.

[Robert Mays]

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[Podcast Host Andrew Schlecht]

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[Robert Mays]

My side of the tree is slipping.

[Jason Goff]

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[Zena Keda]

Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Work Life with Adam Grant and this message is brought to you by AT and T. You know, we spend a lot of time here separating fact from claim, and when it comes to mobile networks, that distinction matters. When AT and T makes a claim, it's one you can count on. AT and T is America's fastest and most reliable wireless network. And that's not opinion, it's Data based on RootMetrics. United States Root Score Report 1H 2025 tested with best commercially available smartphones on three national mobile networks across all available network types. Your experiences may vary.

[Jason Goff]

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[Zena Keda]

AT and T.

[Steve Kerr]

You know, an uneasy feeling inside because I've basically known what I wanted to do and what I've been able to do my entire life. And whenever I decide to call it quits coaching wise, I will definitely have an interesting, hopefully not too difficult transition. But it will Be a major transition for me.

[Zena Keda]

It's an existential question to ask of yourself. It really is. And I think of the fact that you've got your son, Nick Kerr on your. On your staff right now, and it feels as if you've now you're passing the torch. But does with Nick being on the staff and you seeing the development that you've allowed other coaches, is there any desire to kind of stay around for that?

[Steve Kerr]

In what capacity?

[Zena Keda]

I mean, in a coaching capacity. Maybe getting going somewhere where you rebuild and start anew with a new version of a Stephen Curry.

[Steve Kerr]

Yeah. First of all, I will never leave Steph Curry. I can tell you that. I love that. Of course, remember this.

[Zena Keda]

In the hypothetical, he's retired.

[Steve Kerr]

He's retired.

[Zena Keda]

At this point.

[Steve Kerr]

I don't know. I think the one thing that I think will take me out of coaching is the travel. Honestly, just the number of late night flights and 3am arrivals.

[Zena Keda]

Having to talk to us, the media before you do that too. Yeah, you guys.

[Steve Kerr]

But no, it's hard to say. I mean, I don't see myself just quitting coaching after this year, but there will come a time where there's gonna have to be some decisions made. Warriors, myself, my family, what we wanna do and all of that. So that's fine. That's coming at some point.

[Zena Keda]

Okay. I wanna go ahead and start moving forward. And one of my favorite quotes, Draymond Green, of course, he's not shy with his words, but I'll read this quote to you. Steve is Steph's guy. So even if there ever was a thought in regarding to you leaving or letting you go, it don't work. You speak to the Tim and Pop thing, that's his guy. You see mj, like, if Phil ain't here, I ain't here. It's along the same lines. There's no Steph without Steve.

[Steve Kerr]

Oh, my gosh.

[Robert Mays]

Oof.

[Zena Keda]

That's a big one.

[Steve Kerr]

Yeah, I think Draymond is actually wrong on that. There's Steph without me for sure. Oh, he was gonna be great no matter what.

[Zena Keda]

All right, last question for you. It's the holidays. New Year's is coming up. I'm not a resolutions girly. I feel like it's just too limiting, you know what I mean? So I want to think more broadly. As you watch this sport evolve, you think of the imprint that you've had on it, and you take stock in that. What's left to do for you? What else do you want to get done?

[Steve Kerr]

Well, I don't Have a bucket list. I don't have, you know, a list of things that I have to accomplish, and then I'll be. I don't think life works that way. A wise man once said, life happens while we're making plans, and I believe that. And so my life is my family, my dog, my kids, my grand granddaughters. And I love life. I love what I do every day. And I just want to continue to enjoy myself and enjoy the people around me and hopefully be a productive member of society.

[Zena Keda]

60 is young, Steve.

[Steve Kerr]

Yeah, I got. I got some time.

[Zena Keda]

You got some time. You got some time. Well, we appreciate you sitting down with us and talking about the generational shift. This was great.

[Steve Kerr]

Appreciate it.

[Zena Keda]

Worth it. Looks like Steve Kerr feels pretty good about the future of the league, but I was interested in more what he had to say for his own career.

[Sam Amick]

Me, too, Zena. Like, you know, like, we're in the same part of the country. I'm around Steve a lot of. I had already been of the opinion that, you know, Steve, at any point in time, could walk into Joe Lacob's office, the warriors owner, and talk extension. He's choosing not to do that. Steve, to me, in your very candid, revealing interview, sounds like a guy who is seriously contemplating what comes after this season. And if I'm leaning one way right now, if the warriors fall short like they are right now on a regular basis, I think that's a pretty fair question. If he's going to be back.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah. I mean, you could see even the pause he was taking, it was hard for him to find the words, to figure out what that next step is. And we were talking a little bit off camera, but he was saying how much he enjoyed his time as a broadcaster, so that might not be out of the cards for him, but overall, he does have a lot to contemplate.

[Robert Mays]

The mission's been accomplished.

[Zena Keda]

So, as we heard from Steve Kerr, inevitable change is coming to the NBA. Right. Stephen Curry has actually referred to himself before as the Unks. I like to call it the Unction. That's happening over at the Warriors. At some point, the Unction's gotta, you know, at the unction, the uncle's gotta take a seat, get their drink on. Who's manning the grill? Okay. Do we think the league is in good hands with the Unks taking a. Taking a seat soon?

[Jason Goff]

I say yes. I mean, I think it's so notable that SGA is having the season he's having, from a statistical standpoint, the team success, and at the same time, we still know Nikola Jokic is probably the best player in the NBA. Like that just speaks to the quality at the top that somebody can be having an all time MVP type season statistically. But we still know there are the Lucas and the Nikola Diokic is out there that might even be better players at this stage.

[Robert Mays]

I'm down with it. I'm down with everything. The passing of the baton. I am worried though about American basketball.

[Zena Keda]

I was just gonna say, is it a perspective of where you're looking from?

[Robert Mays]

I'm worried about American basketball in a way that I haven't been in a long time. Like when the Dream Team went over and did their thing in Barcelona, it opened the eyes of a new generation that we're seeing now. This is the cultivation of all that activity, that motion. Right. But Zion hasn't panned out the way that thought he would coming out of Duke. John Morant has had his issues in Memphis and I, I think the game is, is being played in a way that is beautiful to watch and is representative of the world. But as far as American basketball is concerned, hanging your hat on Cooper Flag and some of these other guys that are coming out of the draft here soon. There's a lot of really good players, but I think American basketball still has to be propped up a little bit.

[Jason Goff]

It's a great point.

[Sam Amick]

I love where the league's at because I know the American thing is going to work itself out. Cooper is a hell of a prospect, by the way. He's doing some incredible things lately at 18 years old. It is reflective of. We talked earlier about the league trying to globalize, like, so what better way that, you know, let's put the American thing on the side for a minute. Haven't had an MVP in a while that wasn't, you know, not American. But with WEMBY, LUCA, SGA, these guys doing it while Steph and LeBron are still around. That's the part I love because it's not going to last forever. But the idea that you can have the ascension of the young stars coming at a time when those Unks and those old heads are still doing it at this level, even though they're getting sciatica and things like that.

[Jason Goff]

Every once in a while, shout out.

[Sam Amick]

To Al Horford, like, that Runway. I don't know that Runway's not that long, but I'm loving it because you have the two generations absolutely competing together at the same time. It's kind of neat.

[Robert Mays]

Think about what happened when you saw 20 year basketball players back in the day. Like, I remember seeing Robert Parrish in year 20 and James Buddha Edwards in year 20. Now you got LeBron getting and triple doubles every once in a while. Like, Steph looks young, but he's in year 17, 18.

[Zena Keda]

So he's a baby face assassin for a reason.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah, yeah. Guys, guys, guys have played a very, very long time and have kept a premium level of play that hasn't been seen before. These 20 year careers used to be once in a while. Now they're pretty common. I think we expect a lot of these guys. And the longer you play too, like, the more likelihood you have of going out in a tough way. So it'll be interesting to see how the NBA transitions here.

[Zena Keda]

That's exactly why Stephan said he would want to make that decision for himself first. I'll tell you what, if I was to answer it for Adam Silver, I think he's very, very happy with the state of the league right now. Sam, thank you so much for chilling with us, talking NBA Cup, NBA with us. We'll definitely have you back very soon.

[Sam Amick]

Love it. Thanks, guys.

[Robert Mays]

All right, I'd like to give both of you something for the holidays if that's okay.

[Zena Keda]

Aw, yeah.

[Jason Goff]

I like stuff.

[Robert Mays]

Is it cool?

[Zena Keda]

I like stuff. I love this stuff.

[Robert Mays]

Let me go ahead and. Nah, nah, nah. I'm just saying it's the gift of learning. It's the gift of learning. I apologize.

[Jason Goff]

That's fine. That's a little disappointing, but we'll take it.

[Robert Mays]

Hey, man, you know we love learning. With an added bonus. It feels good on top of that. It's a double gift. That worked for y'.

[Zena Keda]

All. It does.

[Robert Mays]

All right, let's do it. Let's jump into our weekly segment we like to call lfg Learning Feels good. You know how it works. I'll give you a number and you have to guess what it's referring to. You said you're ready, so let's do it. The number is 21.

[Jason Goff]

21.

[Robert Mays]

Is it a, the amount of consecutive seasons that the Gonzaga men's basketball team has had a winning record shout out to mark few? Is it B, the amount of points Ole Miss is favored by over Tulane for this weekend's first round of the cfp, the college football playoffs? Is it C, the number of rebounds Mitchell Robinson had for the Knicks against the spurs in the NBA cup final? He was crashing the offensive boards. Or D, the height in meters of the new Lionel Messi statue unveiled in India?

[Zena Keda]

Okay, so it's definitely not cf.

[Jason Goff]

I knew you could eliminate C quickly.

[Robert Mays]

So I like going in on my man Mitchell like that.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, he had a great game. It was insane.

[Steve Kerr]

He had a great game.

[Zena Keda]

It was 15. It was insane.

[Jason Goff]

21 is crazy. Even for like a lower level program like Tulane. I can't imagine ole Ms. Disrespectful. 21 meters in feet. It's like 73ft. Right, right.

[Zena Keda]

So all I remember about this whole statue situation and the unveiling was that there were very upset people in India because they could not see Lionel Messi. Like they went crazy, basically tearing apart the park because they were so upset.

[Jason Goff]

And I feel like, what statue like reveals have gone? Well, how many good statue reveals have there been recently?

[Zena Keda]

I'm going to go with A.

[Robert Mays]

The answer is D. Yes.

[Jason Goff]

Oh, see, I knew it.

[Robert Mays]

It's D. If you can believe it, Lionel Messi took a tour of India and one of the moments on that tour featured an unveiling of a statue that was 21 meters high. Like you mentioned, that's just shy of 70ft. The athletic Dan Sheldon wrote about Messi's recent tour of India, which was chaotic to say the least.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah.

[Robert Mays]

But there will always be a reminder of the visit with this enormous statue.

[Zena Keda]

Oh, I can remember.

[Jason Goff]

Thank God for that.

[Robert Mays]

I guess there is a famous.

[Jason Goff]

Soccer fame is different. Fame.

[Zena Keda]

Yeah, absolutely it is. Tear down arenas if you don't get to see them kind of fame.

[Robert Mays]

It's pop star.

[Zena Keda]

It's a little bit.

[Robert Mays]

So shout out to Messi and his big statue.

[Zena Keda]

Thank you, Black Santa, for the gift of learning. We appreciate it. And that is going to be it from us closing out the year. Shout out to Steve Kerr and the warriors for that exclusive access. We appreciate that. Appreciate Sam Amick coming in, giving us the NBA insights he's got. Excited to have him back for the trade deadline. And remember, you can find new episodes of the Athletic show every Saturday on Fire TV. And head on over to TheAthletic.com for more of the world's best sports journalism. We're gonna take a little mini holiday break. Okay. But we'll be back on January 10th. And until then, we'll see you next time. Happy holidays, everyone.

[Robert Mays]

Happy holidays. Happy holidays.

[Zena Keda]

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