Esperahenny (2:36)

That did not happen.

Dave DeFore (2:37)

No, no.

Esperahenny (2:38)

They Were resilient. A resilient bunch of champions. You know, they figured.

Dave DeFore (2:41)

Great game, though. Great game. Like, we've gotten four, really. And even the blowout, like, you know, feeling of the last two, still great.

Esperahenny (2:50)

Playoff game between these two. There's obviously a little bit of edge to both of these teams.

Dave DeFore (2:56)

Yeah. I won't say I want a seven game series. I just want a series. Just give me a series. I'll take five games, as long as they're good like this. But after the break, we have Andrew Schle to talk about it because he was there to witness it. And I mean, again, just ridiculous game. Yeah. But we've got to talk about the Bucks. The Bucks are just down pretty bad right now. S. They. They drop a game last night to the timber wolves. 139 to 106. Now, okay, the Wolves, we've talked about them. They've been the best team in basketball, record wise, since. Since Thanksgiving. Right. Like, this is no big deal. Except Anthony Edwards and Rudy Gobert were both out. This needed to be a win for the Bucks. It was a home game and they got embarrassed. I mean, this is just the worst loss of the season for them.

Esperahenny (3:42)

Yeah, you could tell there was frustration from Giannis's side, too. There was a moment in the game where, you know, he goes, attacks the basket, gets an and one and starts booing to the fans. And I think that was because the fans were booing first just because of how badly the Bucks were getting beat. So frustration boiling over in Milwaukee and Giannis.

Dave DeFore (4:02)

It just.

Esperahenny (4:03)

It feels like we're headed towards an inevitable breakup, but it's one of those slow breakups where neither side wants to end things and it's getting ugly and you're walking across the hall with each other, nobody's talking to each other.

Andrew Schlecht (4:17)

It's.

Esperahenny (4:17)

It's ugly. It's a bad breakup.

Dave DeFore (4:19)

Well, it's hard to come back from if you trade him away. Right. It's hard to come back from trading away one of the greatest players of his generation. You know, like Nico Harrison obviously lost a job. No way worse trade for sure than whatever the Bucks are going to do. But, you know, it's tough. I mean, this guy's been the franchise and. And not just that, but, like, he's also been the type of guy that I think the Bucks have been happy to have as the face of the franchise. Like, he's. Yeah, he's been a great citizen of Milwaukee.

Esperahenny (4:48)

You know, he literally fuels the economy of Milwaukee also. That's. That's part of what is. Is a topic of conversation here. It's like whoever you end up trading for has to be able to get butts and seats. And so, yeah, from, from Milwaukee's perspective, it's tough. I still err on the side that they won't trade him before the deadline because it's so hard to trade a player like that in the middle of the season. But I don't know. How do you feel about that?

Dave DeFore (5:14)

It makes more sense to wait till the summer, in my opinion.

GAB Advertiser (5:17)

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Dave DeFore (5:17)

And I really did think, okay, this wasn't going to happen. But at this point, anything can happen. These bad losses, they stack up. And there's just a point where I think a guy like Giannis wants to compete. This team is not competitive. And the other thing I'll say is this. I am shocked that we don't hear more criticism of Doc Rivers when the Bucks lose games like this. It just is weird that, like, if, I don't know, if the Orlando Magic drops a game, it's like, Jamal Mosley, man, what are you doing? And then, you know, for some reason, Doc just gets a pass. And I, I just think that this team is underachieving, even given some of the health stuff that they've dealt with this year. It is underachieved in a week. Week, week. Eastern Conference.

Esperahenny (5:58)

Yeah, they just, they haven't, They've had some good wins here over the last little bit, but how can I talk about a win over the Hornets and Sacramento and one win over the Lakers as like, the, the way to go forward with this Bucks team? I just, I, I don't see how there's this through line of. We are going to be competitive when you're one and a half games behind the Chicago bulls for the 10 seed in the Eastern Conference. You talk about competitive. How about just getting into the play in, like, that's where they're at right now. Yeah, it's tough.

Dave DeFore (6:30)

Yeah. And then look on the other side for the Wolves. You know, you, you, you're down, you know, two most important players. I mean, Rudy obviously is the anchor of that defense. And yeah, Anthony Edwards is their best player. And you, you come out and you make a statement. You know, we've been talking about the Nuggets, and we're going to talk about this win that they picked up last night. But to win shorthanded is a big deal, especially in the west, showing some depth. The guys that they're bringing off the bench, I mean, Bones Highland, 23 points off the bench in this game Johan Behringer, 13 points in this game was plus 30. Berenger. Excuse me, not Behringer.

Esperahenny (7:07)

Guys from Idaho sitting here reading.

Dave DeFore (7:09)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But plus 30 off the bench. Where this team needs to find a defensive identity for when Rudy is not available. So I. I think that this is like a growth win for. For the Wolves, who have already been really good.

Esperahenny (7:26)

Yeah. What have I said about January? Man, I really do think when teams are taking advantage of December, January, and then a little bit of February, those are the teams that end up lasting. And you see the Bull. The Wolves, not the Bulls. The Wolves doing that. Exactly. I think the fact that they are very, very good offensively, defense is obviously there. And then being able to grind out these wins like that, you've established an identity for yourself that can kind of go by by its own, even when you don't necessarily have everything tonight.

Dave DeFore (7:59)

Yeah. Let's move to the Nuggets because they pick up another win. They moved a 5 and 3 without Nicola Jokic. Again, they're still shorthanded. No Jokic, no Cam Johnson, no Jonas Valentunas, but man, they have some found money. Between Jamal Murray having this all star, maybe all NBA level season.

Esperahenny (8:18)

Yeah.

Dave DeFore (8:19)

And the rise of Peyton Watson into what I think should be maybe the pole position for most improved player. I mean, you know, we're going to be splitting hairs over this particular award, I think, in a. In a couple months. But, man, what. What Jamal Murray has done to lead this team with. With Yoko Chow, I don't think we can overlook this. He had 35 points, nine assists, three steals. I mean, you know, their offense is worse without Jokic, but their defense has actually stepped up just a little bit and it has made up for the fact that they don't have the greatest player on the court. I think that this team, again, you watch them win these sorts of games and you see exactly where this translates to April and May and June.

Esperahenny (9:00)

I'm looking at Peyton Watson and I'm genuinely just flabbergasted. Like, I did not see. He is creating off of the bounce. He is creating his own shots, dribbling into multiple, like whether it's like a crossover to get his man off of like his. His foot. It just. There are so many opportunities where I see him actually create his own shot, and that is a stark contrast from what he was last season where a lot of his opportunities were catch and shoot, threes, diving to the basket, dunker spot stuff. He is pretty proficient off of the bounce tonight. He had 31 points and he only made 1 3. Most of that is just him attacking the basket, working as a roller, you know, doing a, doing a lot of like finishing around the rim with craft, which is rare for a guy who, I don't know if he necessarily developed like had this level of touch before this season. He's averaging 22 points since Jokic has gotten hurt. This is, I mean, yeah, he should be.

Dave DeFore (10:06)

He's been in the most conversation.

Esperahenny (10:07)

Yeah, he's.

Dave DeFore (10:08)

He started. Christian Brown's out in the game last night, so he's in the starting lineup again. I mean, I'm starting to wonder who's the starter when Christian Brown comes back and this team gets to full strength because I mean, Peyton Watson does add like there's the length dynamic like you mentioned, this off the dribble stuff that, that we're now getting a peek at. Worst case scenario, he's a great guy to bring off the bench like this is. This is not a bad problem to have. But I do wonder what's their best five man lineup going to be when this team is fully healthy? And I wouldn't be shocked if Peyton Watson is, is in that.

Esperahenny (10:43)

That can go bigger now right when he's on the floor. And I think that gives them so much optionality. You think of the Western Conference teams that they might end up facing. Right. We just talked about the Timberwolves who are really big team. Rockets are a big team. Thunder and spurs, obviously, both teams that can go really big as well. You have to be able to match that. And when you have Peyton Watson, who is also a very good like weak side rim protector, can block shots, be this kind of sweeper in the back end for them, that is what he can do on the defensive end. All of this stuff that he provides off of the bounce is just icing on the cake developmentally. So yeah, if he can do this, then now you can play bigger and still have that offensive advantage and be better defensively.

Dave DeFore (11:25)

Yeah. All right, guys, stick around. After the break. We got Andrew Schleck to talk about the Thunder's big win over the spurs and whether this is a rivalry yet or not.

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Dave DeFore (12:56)

Thunder Spur Spurs Game four of the regular season and finally the Thunder get a win. Here to talk about it, Andrew Schlecht. I know the pressure was on for these guys. They were down 30 in the season series. Needless to say, they responded. 11998 a blowout dominant win that third quarter. Andrew really sealed the deal and that's the sort of thing that we hadn't seen out of the Thunder against the spurs yet this season.

Andrew Schlecht (13:25)

Yeah, the Thunder finally looked like the Thunder. And it's not just against San Antonio. The Thunder haven't looked like the Thunder in like three weeks. And really this was the game where they finally looked like the Thunder again, especially in that third quarter. I think their defense was just ratcheted up like three or four notches in the third. Shay was unbelievable. In the third quarter alone he had 15, two and three. J Dub started off just like getting to the hoop really whenever he wanted. At the beginning of that third, he had 10 points in the third quarter and the Thunder just kind of slammed the door shut on the Spurs. But it really all started on the defensive end. I talked to a bunch of guys in the locker room after the game just about like the the approach. Because it's funny, you go and you look at the shot chart from Christmas Day and you look at the one from tonight and you think, oh, it must have been vastly different, right? It really wasn't all that different. The Thunder took just basically just as many shots in the restricted area on Christmas Day as they did tonight. It's really about them. They just made those shots tonight and a lot of it was that they defended so much better tonight. It kept the Thunder out of the half court, it kept the spurs in rotation and it really helped the Thunder just be able to look like themselves and to score with ease.

Esperahenny (14:41)

So I think the conversation heading into this game and basically every Spurs Thunder game for the rest of eternity will be chat versus Wemby. And in the first half, it was the Wemby show. The way that they were dominating. I mean, the. The first play of.

Dave DeFore (14:56)

The first play of the game was. I need a high quality image of that play. Andrew.

Esperahenny (15:03)

Incredible.

Dave DeFore (15:03)

I don't. Wemby's dunking stuff that we've never seen guys dunk before. By the way, as a quick aside, I don't want to derail the conversation here, but to start the game that way over another guy who's 71, Andrew, like, you had to have felt like, oh, no, is this. Is. Are they about to get crushed because of the way the game started?

Andrew Schlecht (15:22)

You know, looked like me versus my 7 year old on the mini hoop. You know, you get dunked on like that just on your head. Oh, come on. Oh, come on.

Dave DeFore (15:32)

All right.

Andrew Schlecht (15:33)

It's like sometimes you're just much taller. And being much taller helps a lot in the NBA. I did think it was interesting. I think the Thunder's approach with Wimby. Obviously you don't want to just get dunked on like that over and over again.

Dave DeFore (15:49)

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Schlecht (15:50)

However, I do think there are a lot of moments where the Thunder, especially when it's like you have Kendrick Williams defending Wemby, you've got J Dub defending him. They're really okay with Wimby looking at that and saying, hey, time to go one on one. They're perfectly okay with that because for the most part, it didn't really work out for Wemby. He was a minus 13 in this game tonight. He missed a lot of these shots against guys when he's going one on one. Like when you make it like this one on one, me versus this other guy who is a foot shorter than me.

Dave DeFore (16:24)

Right.

Andrew Schlecht (16:24)

Like, it's almost like you're baiting him into like these mid range jumpers that are really hard shots. Like even though that.

Dave DeFore (16:32)

That contested long too. Over. Over Chet made no sense.

Andrew Schlecht (16:36)

Yeah, this. It's a. He's taking really tough shots and the Thunder are like, yes, please continue to take those.

Esperahenny (16:44)

It also felt like they, you know, they've been really, really open about their egalitarian offense.

Royal Kingdom Advertiser (16:50)

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Esperahenny (16:50)

You don't know where anything is coming from. That's how unpredictable we like to be offensively. But they, they felt a little selfish. To your point tonight on the offensive end, with the one on one that they were running. It mostly felt like it was just, hey, we're going to try to beat our defender and get an advantage. But those advantages, I mean, the Thunder dominated in the paint tonight. Part of that was them being able to get going offensively, but it was also walling off the paint from the spurs side, too.

Andrew Schlecht (17:16)

Yeah, I thought the defensively, it just felt like they had a lot more juice tonight. And it was really just. It's about defending Wimby certainly, because, like, that's where everything begins with San Antonio. But it's also about, like, playing really tough with de' Aaron Fox, who was, by the way, the best player on the, on the floor, on this floor on Christmas Day. He was the best player. Not even close to that tonight. Castle was awesome again tonight and really cool seeing him and Shea get into it and then seeing Shay fire expletives at him as he's running down the court after he makes it three.

Esperahenny (17:51)

I was actually going to say that. When was the last time.

Dave DeFore (17:54)

Can you quote Andrew?

Andrew Schlecht (17:55)

Can I quote him? Could you listen? This is a children's show, Dave.

Esperahenny (17:59)

That's right.

Andrew Schlecht (17:59)

I think I'm going to quote that. Andrew.

Esperahenny (18:02)

When was the last time you've seen Shay go at someone like that? Because I feel like he's usually pretty calm, usually pretty tame. After the game, in the post game press conference, he mentioned he's like, hey, this is not our Super Bowl. Feels like that's leaning in on the whole rivalry aspect, right?

Andrew Schlecht (18:21)

Yeah, it's like almost like, like shots fired. Like, oh, this is not. This is just another game for us guys. Yeah, no big deal.

Esperahenny (18:28)

One of 82.

Andrew Schlecht (18:30)

Yeah, one of 82. It's zero and zero tomorrow, baby. I. I don't know the last time that I've seen Shay. Like, I can think of times back when they were like, still in kind of the rebuild where you see Shay kind of get emotional after making shots. Like he, he hit a really big shot against the Lakers in L. A when they were like, still going through the rebuild. And he's screaming, I am him. After making a shot. But for the most part, you don't see a lot of that from him, Especially during the, like. Can you recall anything from the last playoff run where Shay is like, no, honestly, screaming at guys like, he's like, all business. Even, like, they're losing to Denver. Fans are screaming at him. What's he doing? He's smiling.

Dave DeFore (19:12)

Right.

Andrew Schlecht (19:12)

You know, and so like, this was. It was a different side of Shay, which, frankly is very fun. Like, it makes like like, this matchup is, like, super entertaining. I hope we get a playoff series just because we have to.

Dave DeFore (19:25)

We have to.

Andrew Schlecht (19:27)

I mean, you got the double tech down here with Shay and Steph. Yeah, it. It was. It was a blast.

Esperahenny (19:35)

Four blocks for Shay tonight, too.

Dave DeFore (19:36)

That's right. One of them on Wendy. Yeah. I mean, come on.

Andrew Schlecht (19:40)

And he skied for it.

Boost Mobile Advertiser (19:42)

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Andrew Schlecht (19:42)

I mean, that was un. That was unreal. Yeah.

Dave DeFore (19:45)

Yeah.

Andrew Schlecht (19:45)

You could tell Shay was in this one.

Dave DeFore (19:48)

I'm glad you mentioned J Will off the bench. He had a double double off the bench. Excellent defense. I thought he was the player of the game, non Shea edition, but I thought he was the most important player outside of Shea in the game. The way he guarded Wemby, the way he stretches the floor. And, you know, it got me thinking a little bit about this matchup because so much focus was on Wemby versus Chad.

Andrew Schlecht (20:10)

Yep.

Dave DeFore (20:10)

And I don't really think that's the matchup that the Thunder want to get into. I think that the J Dub, Kendrick Williams types guarding, Guarding Wemby is probably the move. I. I wonder, like, when we go to maybe the next game or we get into a playoff series, you see a scenario where Chet actually is not starting and. And like, they are just rotating through and playing these. These bigger guys. No. No chance.

Andrew Schlecht (20:34)

No, I don't think they don't start him, but I do think that they. They do. They like to give him lots of different looks. You know, they're going to give everybody a chance. But I do think, like, J. Will in particular, he didn't play in those other matchups. A.J. mitchell didn't play in those previous matchups. And you hate to, like, use that as, like, hey, you know what? Those guys weren't there. And so it makes. It does make the matchup different. Like, sure, the. The rhythm that J Will plays with as an offensive and defensive player is different than any backup big that the Thunder have. Like, he's really helpful. He had five assists tonight. He had 10 boards. Like, the guy is taking guys off the dribble some. He can space the floor with his three ball. Like, he's super helpful and he's like, very, very physical. I thought he was awesome around the rim. And if you have followed him at all since, like, his college days and through the draft and everything, he is, like, he's a completely different player. I mean, the guy has. Is like a true developmental story. He was not somebody that was pegged as this. Like, he basically could take a charge. And the charges.

Esperahenny (21:40)

I remember that.

Andrew Schlecht (21:41)

That was like his, that was his thing. And that was, that was about it. They weren't doing a whole lot more than that, but he's become like a legitimate, like, really, really good bench player for the Thunder, and having him back has changed things quite a bit. You know, we saw Randall kind of get and, you know, get into Wimby some, and the Thunder did that on Christmas Day, too, but we just saw more of it. And having a guy like J. Will that can do that as well is just, you know, it's super helpful.

Esperahenny (22:10)

I think it's worth noting for both sides. Guys were missing. So Devin Vassell for the spurs wasn't playing, and then for the Thunder, no Isaiah Hartenstein, no Lou Dort. And so that changes the complexion to your point of how this matchup looks. I will also say this felt like, and Dave and I were talking about this before, but this felt like the best J Dub game I've seen in a little bit. His again in that second half when they were forcing turnovers and he got out to get out and running, like he propelled their transition game in such a major way. Hopefully this is the start of a good season to the for J Dub as he finishes this year out.

Andrew Schlecht (22:49)

Yeah, I mean, he was fearlessly attacking the rim.

Dave DeFore (22:52)

Yeah.

Andrew Schlecht (22:52)

And I, I, I think that they, J Dub included J.B. dub, Shea, A.J. mitchell, all attacked the rim. Whether Wemby was in there or not, with more ferocity than they did on Christmas Day. Like they were. There was no questioning whether that's where they should be or not. Some of that was that the spurs defense wasn't set every single time they did it. But some of it, too, was. It just felt like there was a mentality shift that happened tonight. And I don't know, like, you go watch other teams, like, you go watch Utah play against San Antonio. You go watch, you know, you go watch the way that Minnesota played against San Antonio the other night. Like, they're not afraid. Are you going to get blocked sometimes? Yes.

Dave DeFore (23:37)

Yeah.

Andrew Schlecht (23:37)

Are you going, like, are you going to miss shots?

Royal Kingdom Advertiser (23:39)

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Andrew Schlecht (23:40)

But the Thunder were amazing in the paint tonight.

Dave DeFore (23:43)

Like, it was seen in the paint.

Andrew Schlecht (23:45)

They were 18 of 21 in the restricted area, 85% at the rim tonight. And a lot of that was, like, just this relentlessness. And it starts with Dub, who basically had 20 points all in the paint tonight. He didn't attempt a 3, but the guy was just like, relentlessly attacking, had a lot. Had half of those points in the third quarter. Yeah, it's, it's good to See him, he's not back to where he was because he's a guy that should attempt five to seven threes a game.

Dave DeFore (24:13)

Yeah.

Andrew Schlecht (24:14)

And like, have that. There's like. There's a more dynamic player in there. That's just.

Dave DeFore (24:18)

The jumper's not falling, but he's so. He's so good at getting downhill. And like you said, he puts much pressure on the rim. So until that jumper fall, this is like the opposite of what Ja had going on, where the jumper wasn't falling, but he also couldn't finish. JDub's finishing looks great now.

GAB Advertiser (24:33)

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Dave DeFore (24:34)

It was shaky the first couple weeks, but now he looks pretty good.

Esperahenny (24:37)

Andrew, I want to ask you one more thing. So OKC is now halfway through the season, 41 games. They finally got the win over the San Antonio Spurs. If you remember a couple years ago, Sam Presti said the sky falls on NBA teams twice a year.

Dave DeFore (24:51)

Right.

Esperahenny (24:52)

It felt like the sky was falling for the Oklahoma City Thunder over the last month.

Andrew Schlecht (24:56)

Yep.

Esperahenny (24:57)

How do they approach the second half of the season so that the sky doesn't fall again?

Andrew Schlecht (25:01)

One make threes would be helpful because that was a huge reason why the sky was falling.

Dave DeFore (25:08)

Yeah.

Andrew Schlecht (25:09)

And then also just like, bring this same level of defensive intensity. Some of. Some of it was controllable, I think, like, the three ball is not always a controllable variable for teams.

Dave DeFore (25:20)

Yeah.

Andrew Schlecht (25:20)

But the Thunder haven't relied on that. You know, you watch them in the NBA Finals. Watch them against Denver. Like, they. It wasn't the three ball that won them those series. It almost cost them both those series, in fact. But it was like the deep. The margin for error was so big because of the defense, and that had slipped to a degree. That was back tonight, I think, to me, like, to me, the biggest thing. And some of it, like, they. They're going to play some really good teams. They got Houston coming up. They have a lot of national television games.

Esperahenny (25:52)

Hopefully with Jokic would be great.

Andrew Schlecht (25:54)

Do they get to play Denver? Does that. Is that a thing? Yeah, they played Denver several times, so it's. I think it's going to be good for them. They really. But it's really defense. And then if they could just make a reasonable amount of threes, I think that they'll be back on track.

Dave DeFore (26:09)

I honestly, that's part of the problem for the spurs, too. Right. Like, they. They kind of have a similar thing. The bottom falls out when they can't hit shots. I hope we get this playoff series. I mean, it just feels like we're destined for it. We'll get it at some point, but I selfish. I want to see which team see.

Esperahenny (26:25)

Which team can do the slow clap better.

Dave DeFore (26:29)

All right, guys, the Thunder are back. Are we taking them over the field now? I don't know. We gotta see them what happens when they play way when they play the Nuggets. Thanks to Andrew for staying up late and hanging out with us. Thanks to Esper Hetty as always. I'm Dave Deford. This has been the NBA Daily. Thanks for waking up with us.

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Esperahenny (28:17)

If.

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