The David Frum Show – Episode Summary
Podcast: The David Frum Show
Host: David Frum, The Atlantic
Guest: Michael Waldman, President, Brennan Center at NYU School of Law
Episode: "How to Stop Trump’s Plan to Steal the 2026 Elections"
Date: December 10, 2025
Main Theme & Purpose
This episode examines the threats posed to American democracy and election integrity as the Trump administration takes unprecedented steps ahead of the 2026 elections. David Frum and his guest, Michael Waldman, explore how federal efforts are being directed to undermine free and fair elections, the legal and procedural safeguards against manipulation, and practical strategies for protecting democratic institutions. The episode underscores that defending democracy requires clear understanding, vigilance, and action from citizens and leaders alike.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Opening Thoughts – The "Silly and Weird" Trump Era (08:48)
- Frum begins by satirically dissecting President Trump’s receipt of a newly-created “FIFA Peace Prize.” He uses this as a springboard to comment on Trump's vulnerabilities to flattery and vanity-driven manipulation.
- He links such events to broader, more systemic concerns about democratic backsliding, symbolized by honoring a living president in a monarchical tradition, e.g., free National Park admission on Trump’s birthday.
"You can manipulate the President of the United States with appeals to his vanity and with little gee gaws that no Republican leader should want."
— David Frum [06:10]
2. Interview with Michael Waldman: The Mechanics of Election Subversion (10:48–43:47)
a) Recent Election Integrity and New Federal Threats
- Waldman recounts the resilience of the 2020, 2022, and 2024 elections, noting high turnout and successful defense against disinformation and violence.
- The new danger: the Trump administration is now actively working from within the federal government to undermine future elections—a first in American history.
"For the first time, I think, in American history, the federal government and the Trump administration are actively waging an effort to undermine the 2026 elections."
— Michael Waldman [11:25]
b) Executive Overreach and Voting Restrictions
- Trump tried to take direct control over election processes via executive order—requiring passports for registration and demanding voter data from states—efforts largely stymied by courts due to clear constitutional limits.
c) Legislative Maneuvers
- The Trump-backed SAVE Act sought to mandate passports or birth certificates for registration—a barrier for millions—passing in the House but stalling in the Senate.
- Ongoing purges of federal election security personnel (who were critical in protecting past elections) have driven these experts into civil society, where they continue their work.
d) Weaponizing Law Enforcement
- The administration is accused of threatening election workers and leveraging law enforcement for intimidation. Concerns are raised about possible use of troops (particularly the National Guard) or ICE agents at polling locations to deter or delay voters—especially in swing districts.
"Supposing the local National Guard commander…takes it in his mind that maybe there are a bunch of illegal immigrants standing in this voting line…he may be able to detain them for a few hours, at least till after the polls close."
— David Frum [16:25]
- The phrase "Kavanaugh stops" emerges for this practice, referencing the Supreme Court's complicity.
e) Gerrymandering: Limits and Backfires
- A detailed discussion explains gerrymandering’s partisan use and potential for unintended consequences (“dummy-manders”) when a wave election overwhelms carefully drawn lines.
- Both parties have escalated gerrymandering, exacerbated since 2010 by improved mapping technology and weakened court oversight (e.g., Rucho v. Common Cause, 2019).
"With gerrymandering, it's like you have a piece of toast, and you don't quite have enough jelly for the whole toast…but little bald spots begin to appear … and it might as well have had no jelly."
— David Frum [21:22]
f) Demographic Realities and GOP Miscalculations
- New ID laws and purges may unintentionally disenfranchise Republican-leaning constituencies (older voters, frequent travelers, homeowners, military).
- Muscle-memory strategies from past decades do not fit present realities, sometimes leading to internal GOP resistance.
"About half of all Americans don't have a passport. How do they summer in France, you might ask? Well, that's reality."
— Michael Waldman [24:06]
g) Precedents for Contested Elections
- They revisit the 1984 Indiana House race and discuss the constitutional provision that each House decides its members’ qualifications—potentially allowing a bare majority to decide election outcomes in close races, as a possible analog to January 6th in congressional terms.
"It's the counting of the votes and the decisions about who gets seated. It's sort of like a congressional analog to January 6th."
— Michael Waldman [28:51]
- However, Waldman expresses optimism about the judiciary’s willingness to intervene in blatant, widespread abuse, as well as new robust safeguards developed since Bush v. Gore (2000).
h) Militarization and ICE
- There is deep concern about ICE and National Guard activities being expanded and politicized, intimidating communities and undermining civil liberties.
- Governors and local officials are positioned as crucial defenders of voter access; vote-by-mail is highlighted as a mitigating factor against on-site intimidation.
"The National Guard are regular folks…normally under command of the governor, very apolitical…But this is where governors and mayors have an important role to play."
— Michael Waldman [35:21]
i) State, Local, and Structural Issues
- Much of what divides the country into seemingly “red” and “blue” states is the result of aggressive gerrymandering at state and local levels, not just genuine partisan gaps.
j) The Supreme Court & Voting Rights
- Waldman explains the trajectory and current gutting of the Voting Rights Act: loss of Section 5 pre-clearance (Shelby County, 2013); erosion of Section 2; and looming Supreme Court actions likely to further weaken protections.
- If remaining protections fall, up to 15 seats could shift in the House simply due to diluted minority political power—though some outcomes may unpredictably boomerang on the GOP.
k) The Urgency of National Standards
- Both guest and host advocate forcefully for national redistricting standards and voting protections, pointing out that congressional action (not just the courts) is not only possible but urgently needed.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
Manipulability of Power:
"You can manipulate the President of the United States with appeals to his vanity and with little gee gaws that no Republican leader should want."
— David Frum [06:10] -
On Executive Power:
"The president has no role in so much of this [election administration]…and that fact gives the greatest hope to blocking this kind of activity."
— Michael Waldman [13:44] -
On Voter ID Requirements:
“About half of all Americans don't have a passport…More people have a birth certificate, but they don't necessarily know where it is…I think it's in a shoebox in my mother's closet.”
— Michael Waldman [24:06] -
On Gerrymandering:
“It's like you have a piece of toast…and you put the jelly all heaped up on one piece of the toast…then you start spreading the jelly thinner…little bald spots begin to appear.”
— David Frum [21:22] -
Electoral Muscle Memory:
“It's kind of more of a muscle memory and emotional impulse that we see playing out. And sometimes it has actually caused quiet ruptures inside the President's own coalition.”
— Michael Waldman [25:14] -
On Congressional Power:
“It's the counting of the votes and the decisions about who gets seated…a congressional analog to January 6th.”
— Michael Waldman [28:51] -
On Protecting Elections:
“What eases that worry is when I see people in communities, people in states and across the country actually getting ready to defend those elections—because Trump has his plan. But I think a lot of the rest of us have our plan.”
— Michael Waldman [43:47]
Important Segment Timestamps
- [08:48] — Introduction of guest Michael Waldman
- [10:21]–[13:44] — Waldman explains the resilience of 2020–2024 elections and outlines new federal threats
- [16:25] — Discussion of troops/ICE risks and "Kavanaugh stops"
- [19:05]–[22:44] — Gerrymandering, redistricting arms race, and demographic backfires
- [24:06]–[27:14] — Voter ID requirements and unintended consequences
- [28:12]–[32:17] — Precedents for close, contested elections and the risk of abuse by partisan Congressional majorities
- [33:28]–[36:08] — ICE, National Guard militarization, and local officials’ vital role
- [37:05]–[43:22] — Voting Rights Act, national standards, and structural reforms
- [43:47]–[45:59] — Waldman’s concluding thoughts and recommendations
Concluding Reflections & Policy Recommendations
- The gravest concern is a federal government actively undermining democratic elections—unprecedented in U.S. history.
- Hope lies in civic resilience: local officials, governors, bipartisan election officials, and engaged citizens ready to defend democracy at every level.
- Concrete reforms proposed: national standards to end partisan gerrymandering, restore and reinforce voting rights, safeguard against racial discrimination, and introduce judicial and congressional accountability (including Supreme Court term limits).
- Waldman emphasizes bipartisan, reform-minded coalitions—likening today’s crisis to previous eras of American political renewal.
"After scandal is when you get reform…If we do it right, we can make this a season of renewal, even though things occasionally look dark on any given day."
— Michael Waldman [45:56]
This summary is designed for listeners who want a comprehensive overview of the episode’s major themes, central arguments, and memorable exchanges—particularly those interested in the mechanics, history, and defense of American democracy.