Podcast Summary: The Atlantic Interview: Mitch Landrieu on Defending Democracy and Confronting History

Podcast: The David Frum Show (The Atlantic)
Episode: The Atlantic Interview: Mitch Landrieu
Date: April 4, 2018
Host: Jeffrey Goldberg (Editor-in-Chief, The Atlantic)
Guest: Mitch Landrieu (Mayor of New Orleans)

Overview

In this wide-ranging and deeply personal interview, Jeffrey Goldberg sits down with outgoing New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu to explore the challenges and meaning behind his decision to remove Confederate monuments from public spaces, the complexities of race and memory in America, and how history shapes both personal and political action. Landrieu reflects on his own family’s civil rights legacy, the ongoing struggle for racial reconciliation, and offers insights into the evolving landscape of Southern—and national—politics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Decision to Remove Confederate Monuments

(02:22–06:56)

• Rebuilding After Katrina: Landrieu frames the removal effort within the broader context of New Orleans’ post-Katrina reconstruction, emphasizing the goal to, “build the city back not the way it was... but the way that the city should have been had we gotten it right the first time” (02:51).
• Catalyst for Change: Jazz musician Wynton Marsalis influenced Landrieu’s thinking, challenging him to consider the meaning and message of the monuments.

  “He said, because if you ever thought about what they are and what they mean, who put them up and why they’re there. And I said, actually, you know, not much.” (04:00 — Landrieu)

• Impact on Black New Orleanians: Landrieu describes learning how the statues made Black residents feel unwelcome, contributing to a “diaspora” of talent leaving the city (04:31–05:43).
• Historical Purpose: Research and input from figures like Walter Isaacson and Ken Burns led Landrieu to realize the monuments “were not put up to basically remember Robert E. Lee himself, but they were put up as a political message... a go to hell pitch” to Black Americans (05:52).

2. Community Reaction and the Meaning of History

(06:56–13:36)

• Democratic Process: Landrieu details extensive public hearings, court cases, and legislative reviews before action was taken, noting, “there’s been a much more democratic process” than people realize (08:24).
• Different White Perspectives: Differentiates between white residents of New Orleans (largely supportive or accepting of removal) and those in Louisiana and broader southern states (more opposed), emphasizing the city’s unique diversity (07:15–08:18).
• Arguments Against Removal: Addresses claims about historical erasure:

  “So is taking them down [history].” (11:33 — Landrieu)

• Selective Memory: Points out that monuments honored only the Confederacy, ignoring the Union and African American contributions:

  “The Union is not recognized at all.” (13:01 — Landrieu)

3. The Beauregard Statue and Nuanced History

(14:35–18:32)

• Complexity Around Beauregard: Landrieu admits he “was a little conflicted” about removing the P.G.T. Beauregard statue due to Beauregard’s post-war moderation, but determined ultimately that the context and purpose of all the Confederate statues was the same: reinforcing white supremacy (15:00–16:20).
• “Historical Malfeasance”: Landrieu challenges historians who claim erasure, arguing they omit critical histories, especially of African Americans:

  “I accuse them of historic malfeasance, a lie by omission... why don’t you remember all of our history?” (16:38–17:10)

4. Family Legacy and Personal Courage

(18:32–23:49)

• Comparisons to Father Moon Landrieu:

  “You were brave to do what you did, but... you're not nearly as brave as your father was...” (18:32 — Goldberg)

• Civil Rights Foundations: Moon Landrieu’s courage in defying segregation and his deep relationships across racial lines influenced Mitch Landrieu’s actions:

  “I did it for me... The fact that [my Black friend] couldn’t go someplace with me, besides it being unjust to him, meant that I couldn’t be with my friend.” (22:06 — Landrieu recounting his father's words)

• Personal and Public Are Inseparable: Landrieu emphasizes that “what we do in politics is somehow very personal... It’s how you actually live and how it informs your life.” (23:20)

5. Democratic Politics, Race, and Identity in the South

(24:00–31:41)

• Electoral Realities: Goldberg notes speculation about Landrieu as a potential national candidate, reflecting on the historical reliance on white Southern candidates by Democrats (24:22–25:06).
• No Simple Advantages: Landrieu warns against assuming regional or identity advantages in an unpredictable political era where old party alignments are “upside down” (25:06–26:21).
• Party Dynamics and Disconnection: Landrieu analyzes the Republican and Democratic “wars within,” pointing out that the bigger issue is citizen “disconnection” and the need to “reconnect people to each other” (26:44–28:47).

  “The big question for the country... is how to reconnect people to each other and to get them moving in the same direction, as opposed to thinking that they’re in a zero sum game that’s based on race.” (27:23)

6. Race, Resentment, and the Southern Strategy

(29:35–31:41)

• Purposeful Political Division: Landrieu references Nixon-era strategists like Lee Atwater, Roger Stone, and Paul Manafort, naming the deliberate “Southern strategy” to divide working-class whites from Black Americans by fomenting racial resentment:

  “It was purposeful... they had a Southern strategy which was to divide African Americans and working class whites by race. And the politics of resentment.” (30:14)

• Comparisons with Europe and Northern U.S.: Landrieu contrasts the U.S. adversity to fully confronting racial history with Germany and South Africa, calls for honest reckoning, and brings in non-Southern racism as well (30:14–31:43).

7. A Message for the Future: Diversity as Strength

(31:43–32:31)

• Invitation, Not Condemnation: Landrieu positions his book (and policies) as an invitation for honest reflection, not shaming.
• Welcoming Ethos: He closes with a declaration for New Orleans as a city that embraces diversity and progress:

  “We believe that diversity is a strength and that people are welcome in our city, and we think we’re better for it...” (31:58 — Landrieu)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On historical reckoning:

  “We should never revere what we did, we should remember it so as not to repeat it, and we should purposefully go in a different direction.” (17:10 — Landrieu)

• On confronting white supremacy:

  “It should not be hard for us as a country to simply state that the Confederacy was on the wrong side of history.” (10:14 — Landrieu)

• On the core of the book:

  “It just wasn’t about the monuments. It was about telling people that this thing that is so unique about America is that our strength comes from our diversity and that it’s not a zero sum game and that we all help each other.” (27:39 — Landrieu)

• On personal and political courage:

  “Every time I got scared... I thought about that picture of John Lewis on the foot of the Edmund Pettus Bridge... He stayed there anyway because he thought something had clicked in him, that the cause was worth taking the pain.” (19:49–20:19 — Landrieu)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:22–06:56 — Decision process and the emotional/political import of monument removals
• 07:15–13:36 — Community reactions, process details, and broader implications of “erasing” or honoring history
• 15:00–18:32 — Beauregard controversy and the nuances of historical memory
• 18:32–23:49 — Family legacy and influence, courage and the civil rights movement in New Orleans
• 24:00–26:21 — National political landscape and shifting party dynamics
• 26:44–28:47 — Disconnection and zero sum politics
• 29:35–31:43 — Race-based political strategies and invitation to reflection
• 31:58–32:31 — Closing statements on diversity, identity, and the meaning of New Orleans’ example

Conclusion

This episode provides an in-depth, honest, and sometimes raw exploration of how public spaces reflect deeper truths about power, race, and national memory. Mitch Landrieu shares both the practical and philosophical underpinnings of his actions as mayor, elucidates the many layers of Southern identity and political realignment, and challenges listeners to see diversity—and democratic self-examination—not as obstacles, but as sources of strength and renewal.