The Atlantic Interview: Pete Souza
Podcast: The David Frum Show (The Atlantic)
Episode Date: April 25, 2018
Host: Jeffrey Goldberg
Guest: Pete Souza (Former Chief Official White House Photographer for President Barack Obama)
Episode Overview
This episode explores the unique vantage point of Pete Souza, who served as President Barack Obama's chief official White House photographer. Through an intimate, wide-ranging conversation with Atlantic Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg, Souza discusses the craft and ethics of documenting a presidency, the process of creating his book An Intimate Portrait, and the challenge of capturing both the historical arc and human nuance of the Obama years. The discussion also touches on issues of press access, iconic images, moments of emotional gravity, and how photography shapes our collective memory of leaders.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
Life as the President’s Shadow
- Constant Presence: Souza describes his role as “tagging along with President Obama from the time he came down from the residence in the morning until the time he left at night.” (02:28)
- Invisibility: To avoid being obtrusive, Souza relied on quiet cameras without flash or loud motor drives and would “move about” discreetly, often slipping out after getting his shot. (03:27)
- Exhausting Endurance: "I took one sick day in eight years, and the only reason...was because I had to undergo anesthesia." (04:46)
Quote
“If President Obama was having a one-on-one conversation...I would just try to get my pictures and slowly disappear through one of those secret doors.” – Pete Souza (03:27)
The West Wing Reality
- Physical Space: The real West Wing is “smaller than people think. It’s older than people think. There’s no wireless.” (08:28)
- Atmosphere: Unlike TV depictions, the West Wing was often “quiet,” a reflection of Obama’s disciplined, orderly personality. (13:17)
Quote
“Well, it’s not like the West Wing TV show...It’s small...It’s older than people think...everything kind of centers around the Oval Office.” – Pete Souza (08:28)
Photo Selection and Telling the Story
- Curating the Book: Souza began with the core photographs released publicly, striving to craft a chronological, human, and historical portrait of the presidency. “The challenge was just trying to get it down to 350 pages.” (09:22–10:59)
- Aesthetic and Human Moments: Sought pictures that were both artistically interesting and illuminating of “what he was like as a human being.” (09:22)
The Ethics and Limits of Access
- Photojournalism vs. Official Photographer: Souza maintained his approach from journalism but acknowledges the difference: “You’re not editing to fit a certain story. I was thinking...of making timeless photos, historical photos.” (11:28)
- Press Restrictions: Goldberg raises critique that Souza had access while “your former colleagues in the press were restricted.” Souza agrees it’s a “legitimate complaint. It happens every administration.” (12:25)
Iconic Photographs and Their Meaning
- Most Famous: Situation Room/Osama Bin Laden Raid
- Souza notes its “historic” resonance but “wouldn’t consider it one of my favorites.” (14:29)
- Jacob Philadelphia Touching Obama’s Hair:
- Captured spontaneously; he “didn’t know what [he] had until the end of the day.” (15:08)
- The photo resonates because it symbolizes “a young African American kid touching the head of the President...who looks like him,” and Obama’s willingness to “bend over and let this kid touch his head.” (16:01)
Quote
“Even though he was President United States, at the behest of a five year old kid, he would go ahead and bend over and let this kid touch his head. That he didn’t take himself that seriously.” – Pete Souza (16:01)
- Aesthetics: Cites a foggy Air Force One departure in Seattle, a Yad Vashem photo in Jerusalem, and the White House lit in rainbow colors after the Supreme Court upheld same-sex marriage as images he is proud of for both artistic and contextual reasons. (18:10–19:22)
Grappling with History and Trauma
- Newtown/Sandy Hook:
- Documents the emotional toll of photographing the aftermath; had difficulty keeping his emotions in check, especially seeing a group of six-year-olds after the shooting.
- Describes being with families “in just the worst circumstance.” (21:10–23:12)
Quote
“I finally tapped this one little girl on the shoulder, and I said, how old are you guys? And she looked up at me and she said, we’re six. And that’s when I lost it...” – Pete Souza (21:10)
Secrets, Security, and “Being in the Room”
- Clearance: Souza describes the oddity and privilege of having access “to the highest level secrets” due to his forced proximity to the president. He knew about the bin Laden raid and US-Cuba relations before the public. (28:17–29:30)
- The Human President: On Obama’s behavior during the bin Laden raid, he comments on the president’s comfortable humility—“that was a human decision,” Obama not seating himself at the head of the table. (25:47; 27:15)
Photographing Vice President Biden
- Biden was a vivacious subject, “close talker...energetic with his hands and his emotions.” (30:03)
Quote
“He was just one of the most hardworking and sincere guys you’ll ever meet in politics.” – Pete Souza (30:03)
Transition to Trump
- Including Trump in the Book:
- Reluctantly included an image of Trump out of historical obligation, choosing a subtle shot “the back of his head and a little bit of hair.” (31:04)
- When asked if he would find photographing Trump “exciting,” Souza answers simply, “No.” (13:51)
- Notes that Trump's White House gives less access to the official photographer. (14:03)
- On the interpretive nature of photography:
- “Everybody looks at a photograph a different way.” (32:30)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (w/ Timestamps)
-
On being invisible as a photographer:
“I used a small footprint, meaning I used the quietest cameras that existed.” – Souza (03:27)
-
On the discipline of Obama and physical details:
“This guy was notorious for being a disciplined eater...three jars with almonds...On April 1, I got the valets to dump out all the nuts and put in M and Ms...As soon as he walked into the office, I could tell he was in a really bad mood.” – Souza (07:19)
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On the challenge of emotional fortitude:
“There were about 20 or 25 [girls], and I finally tapped this one little girl on the shoulder, and I said, how old are you guys? And she looked up at me and she said, we're six. And that's when I lost it.” – Souza (21:10)
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On the meaning of the Jacob Philadelphia photo:
“If I had been six inches in either direction, it might not have worked...A young African American kid touching the head of the president United States who looks like him...He didn’t take himself that seriously.” – Souza (16:01)
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On being cleared for the most secret moments:
“There are times too, like before we opened relations with Cuba...I knew a year in advance that we were trying to do this with Cuba.” – Souza (29:30)
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On the Obama/Trump transition:
“It was pretty surreal...I was debating whether to even include a picture of the incoming president.” – Souza (31:04)
Important Segment Timestamps
- 01:16 – Pete Souza joins, early banter
- 03:27 – How Pete avoided being obtrusive
- 04:46 – The endurance required for the job
- 06:28–07:51 – Obama’s moods, discipline, and the “almond story”
- 08:28 – Reality of working in the West Wing
- 09:22–10:59 – Process of selecting photos for the book
- 11:28–12:33 – Journalism vs. White House photography, press access debate
- 14:29–16:01 – Discussion of iconic photos (“bin Laden,” “Jacob Philadelphia”)
- 17:56–19:22 – Souza’s favorite/aesthetic photographs
- 21:10–23:12 – Photographing trauma, emotional boundaries (“Newtown”)
- 23:33–25:47 – The Situation Room, body language in bin Laden raid photo
- 28:17–29:30 – Having secret clearance, unique proximity to power
- 30:03 – Photographing Joe Biden
- 31:04–32:39 – Photographing Trump, inclusion in the book, interpretive nature of photography
Conclusion
Through candid and reflective anecdotes, Pete Souza reveals the craft and complexity behind some of the Obama presidency’s most enduring images. The episode offers rare insight into the intersection of history, power, and artistry, reminding listeners that the lens does not just record events—it shapes how history is remembered.