Podcast Summary: The David Frum Show

Episode: Why Are the Media So Afraid of Trump?

Date: June 4, 2025. Host: David Frum. Guest: Marty Baron (former Executive Editor, The Washington Post)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode features a deep dive into the crisis facing American media under the renewed pressure of Trump’s second presidential term. Host David Frum, alongside distinguished guest Marty Baron, explores how Trump’s administration—and similar political actors—have evolved their tactics to influence, intimidate, and extract concessions from major media companies. They examine why the press seems more vulnerable now than in past decades, discuss how internal and external pressures have changed American journalism, and share practical advice on how citizens can be responsible consumers of news in an era of weaponized information.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Escalating Threats to Press Freedom and Responsibility

[01:11–09:42] David Frum – Monologue

• Trump’s Shift in Tactics: During his first term, Trump’s attacks on the press (“enemies of the people”) were loud but largely ineffective; investigative journalism mostly persisted despite harassment.
• Second Term: Coordinated Corporate Pressure: Trump now systematically targets the corporate parents (like Amazon, Disney), leveraging federal power to coerce favorable media coverage or punish negative reporting.
  • “He does it by squeezing the corporate parents of media institutions, making it clear that mergers won’t happen... unless those institutions change the way that the reporting arms behave themselves.” (05:23)
  • Examples: Amazon paying for a Melania Trump documentary; networks like ABC and CBS making questionable payments or settlements.
• Broader Trends: This tactic isn’t limited to Trump—others like Ron DeSantis similarly punished corporate free speech.
• Media Vulnerability: Traditional media institutions are less powerful and financially weaker than before, making them susceptible to pressure.
• Rise of New Media: Platforms like TikTok and Facebook now dominate the information ecosystem, especially among younger, less politically-engaged Americans.
  • “TikTok has to be regarded as the most important media company in America today… these are shaping the minds... especially Americans under 40.” (06:45)
• Knowledge under Siege: Trump’s actions and the new media landscape risk creating a society without shared reliable facts.
  • “Instead of knowledge informing our politics, our politics will inform our knowledge.” (07:56)
• Call to Action: Each individual must become better, wiser, more skeptical consumers of news to resist growing distortions.

2. Interview with Marty Baron: How Has the Media Changed?

[09:42–34:36] David Frum & Marty Baron

Ownership & Political Pressure

• Bezos Era/Washington Post: Baron notes that when he was editor, Bezos “consistently and courageously resisted” Trump’s pressure, even at significant cost:
  • “Amazon lost a $10 billion contract with the federal government because of Trump’s unhappiness with the Washington Post coverage.” (11:38)
• Why Owners Are Afraid: Owners fear retaliation against their broader business interests (federal contracts, merger approvals—see Disney, CBS/Paramount).
  • “In the case of Bezos, he’s afraid of the impact that Trump can have on Amazon… with the federal government.” (12:28)

Then vs. Now: Nixon/Watergate vs. Trump Era

• Trump’s Retaliation is More Systematic: Unlike Nixon’s backfired threats, today’s threats often succeed due to consolidated executive power and a compliant Congress.
  • “Now you have a president who has control of both houses of Congress, and you have a Congress… that is completely servile.” (16:31)
• Media's Evolving Weakness: Newsrooms have grown dependent on wealthy owners with diversified, government-sensitive interests, making them more vulnerable than in the past.

Internal Media Dynamics

• Staff Mutinies & Ideological Rigidity: Frum suggests internal turmoil (e.g., op-ed controversies) weakened institutional solidarity and courage. Baron agrees this has hurt credibility and public trust.
  • “There has been a certain ideological rigidity... a tendency on the part of particularly younger generation… to divide the world into victims and victimizers…” (18:56, Baron)
• Diversity Paradox: While staff have become demographically diverse, Frum and Baron discuss how elite educational backgrounds and ideological homogeneity may increase distance from average readers.
  • “...the staff become more diverse in a series of biographical attributes, they become more monolithic in the way they think.” (19:56, Frum)
  • “I think we should get to work doing that… get more people from working class backgrounds as well.” (21:03, Baron)
• Lost Blue Collar Connection: Frum and Baron nostalgically recall when newsrooms were physically and demographically entwined with their cities.
  • “It was a giant manufacturing enterprise and most of the staff were blue collar people who had nothing to do with the content of the paper...” (22:02, Frum)
  • Baron acknowledges prior failure “to understand people's struggles, their expectations, their aspirations.” (23:25)

Coverage Priorities and Blind Spots

• Coverage Gaps Example: Frum notes the disparity between coverage of the opioid crisis vs. transgender issues in 2016 as symptomatic of missing large trends that matter to communities Trump was able to reach.
  • “He would campaign in these places and just say the word opioid… he had no plan… but at least he knew it was there…” (24:10, Frum)

Defining ‘Media’ in 2025

• What Counts as Media? TikTok, podcasts, and influencers wield more influence than legacy outlets. Some “anti-media” brands build trust by attacking traditional journalism, even as they themselves are unregulated media.
  • “TikTok shapes more minds than the New York Times, and Joe Rogan has a bigger audience than 60 Minutes.” (25:30, Frum)
  • Baron: “The definition of media has expanded tremendously... a lot of the new media is communicating with a level of authenticity, or at least perceived authenticity, that institutional media has been unable to deliver.” (26:35)
• ‘Authenticity’ vs. Authority: Baron warns that “authentic” doesn’t always mean “reliable,” and that bad actors thrive in the fragmented market of the Internet.
  • “People are forming their opinions of what's happening... based on a 15 second TikTok. They think they know everything based on the 15 seconds.” (30:27, Baron)
  • “...there are an enormous number of bad actors... but traditional media is not irrelevant, as is often claimed…” (28:48, Baron)

3. Advice for News Consumers

[31:05–33:47] Baron & Frum

• Baron’s Advice:
  • Look for the speaker’s education, expertise, and evidence.
  • Ask: Who is the source? What proof do they offer? Check their track record.
  • “All of the things that we've used in the past, education, experience, expertise and actual evidence, have all been... denied and dismissed and denigrated. I think that consumers should be looking at that.” (31:34, Baron)
• Frum: Greater opportunity for information, but the risk of self-deception is equally high.
  • “We all have many more opportunities, but we're all going to have to work a lot harder to make sure that we are accurately and truthfully informed.” (32:58, Frum)
• Baron: Transparency Needed
  • “...those of us who are delivering information have to work harder to show people our work...” (33:47, Baron)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Corporate Squeeze:
  • David Frum: “President Trump has been much more systematic, much more deliberate, much more sustained, and much more effective in putting pressure on America's free media... He does it by squeezing the corporate parents of media institutions...” (05:23)
• On Newsroom Disconnects:
  • Marty Baron: “There are a lot of people in the newsroom who don't understand the struggles and lives of ordinary people in the middle of the country. And we need to work harder at that.” (21:03)
• On Authenticity vs. Authority:
  • Baron: “We are not communicating the same level of authenticity that a lot of the new media are... People who do communicate... are being given credit for authority that frequently they don't deserve.” (26:35)
• On Media Vulnerability:
  • Baron: “The unwillingness to sort of recognize nuances has hurt our credibility with the general public. That's where I think it's done real damage...” (18:56)
• Why Trump Still Obsessess Over Media:
  • Baron: “There is a reason why Trump is completely obsessed with traditional media. He would not be obsessed with traditional media if it were irrelevant.” (29:35)
• Advice to Consumers:
  • Baron: “Consumers of information need to look for that education, expertise, experience. And what is the evidence that they are providing? Are you just relying on your beliefs or are you confusing your beliefs with actual facts?” (31:34)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:11 – Start of Frum’s monologue on Trump’s press tactics
• 05:23 – How Trump squeezes media via corporate leverage
• 09:42 – Interview with Marty Baron begins
• 12:28 – Why media owners are afraid of Trump’s retaliation
• 15:54 – Are media weaker now than in Nixon era? Why?
• 18:56 – Media’s ideological rigidity and credibility
• 19:56 – Diversity, hiring, and disconnection from audience
• 24:10 – Missed priorities: opioids vs. transgender coverage
• 25:30 – Rethinking ‘media’—what counts?
• 26:35 – New media, authenticity, and bad actors
• 31:05 – How to be a better news consumer: Baron’s blueprint
• 33:47 – Need for transparency from journalists
• 35:29 – Frum on the Biden age/infirmity ‘scandal’ and media response

Tone & Language

True to the style of The Atlantic, the tone is analytical, thoughtful, occasionally wry, but never flippant. Frum and Baron are candid about large, uncomfortable realities facing the press but without resorting to alarmism or defeatism. There’s a persistent call for civic engagement, a belief in the ability to improve institutions, and a realism about the difficulties posed by both political and technological transformation.

Takeaways for Listeners

• Traditional media faces new, dangerous forms of political intimidation, compounded by financial vulnerability and industry-wide shifts.
• Internal newsroom divisions and lack of genuine diversity (socioeconomic/experiential, not just demographic) have contributed to a weakening press.
• The explosion of new media—often unfiltered, sometimes unprincipled—has fragmented the public’s information diet and made fact consensus elusive.
• Both journalists and everyday citizens must work harder and smarter: journalists by showing their work transparently, and citizens by questioning sources and seeking credible evidence.
• Despite the odds, both Frum and Baron hold that traditional media, though battered, remains indispensable to democracy and is worthy of defense and support.