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The Audacity to Podcast® - tips and how to start and grow profit in podcasting
420. When to Use Podcast Episode Numbers
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When should you use episode numbers with your podcast? Thank you for joining me for the Audacity to Podcast. I'm Daniel J. Lewis. I have changed my mind since 12 years ago in episode 175 when I proposed that episode numbers were unnecessary for most podcasts. Now, however, I see more cases when you should consider using episode numbers for your podcast and it comes down to this. Use episode numbers when they actually matter to your audience. Specifically, I'll share with you how to determine when that applies for your podcast episodes. If you'd like to follow along in the notes for this episode, they are a simple tap or swipe away or go to the audacitytopodcast.com when episodes episode numbers starting at number one. Use episode numbers for serial podcasts, not just the podcast serial, although that is an example of this. Think of podcasts where they need to be consumed in a particular order. Episode one, then episode two, then episode three. This could be like chapters of a book. This could be steps in a process. This could be something chronological, it could be a story, anything where basically the audience needs to consume it in a particular order. They can't just jump around and cherry pick episodes or jump in the middle of it. They really need to start at number one, then number two, number three, and so on. That is perfect. That is a serial podcast. And that's when you would want the episode numbers for your audience to be able to know the correct order to consume the episodes. Because even though you can do things in podcast apps like define something as a serial podcast, you can't assume that every podcast app will interpret that correctly, or even that everyone's preferences will display the episodes in the correct order. By default, podcast apps display episodes in the order that they were published, and most of the time it seems that they display the latest episode first. But what if you really want people to listen to your first episode first? That's where episode numbers can really help with that. And the episode numbers help people to know what order to consume the episodes in, especially when those episode numbers are prominent. And that's what I do recommend is when the episode numbers matter to your audience, make those episode numbers prominent. Use them in the title, even putting them at the beginning of the episode title. I know you can gasp if you've been following me for a while, because I recommended against that for years. It's within the last few years that my mind has really changed on this. So when that episode number matters to your audience, make sure it is displayed prominently. And the ideal situation for when that matters is when your episodes need to be consumed in a particular order. Definitely use episode numbers for that. Then number two, and this is where my mind changed the most and this is where I'm going to spend the most time in this episode because I want you to understand this and I want to explain this thoroughly for you. So number two, use episode numbers if frequently referencing other episodes. My mind changed on this because of looking at how other people use podcast apps and then critically looking at how I use a podcast app and also thinking about things from the way that my mind has changed and my perspective has changed about podcasting from engaging in podcasting 2.0. Because when you look at podcasting 2.0, we are trying to improve what a podcast can be, what it can do and what it can can provide, primarily without leaving the podcast app stuff like cross app comments, allowing you to comment on an episode within the podcast app and other people can read those comments within their podcast apps. Not having to go out somewhere else to comment on the episode, but doing it right there inside the podcast app. The same thing, like with the value tag, being able to give value back to the podcaster right inside the podcast app, accessing other metadata like the location, the credits for the podcast, the people in the podcast, and much more, all within the podcast app and not having to leave the podcast app. So now do a little thought exercise with me. If I wanted you to go back and listen to my original episode where I talked about episode numbers in your podcast, I think the title of it was do you really need episode numbers? How would you find that episode? I could tell you the URL, which is very easy for me to remember because it's keyword based. And that's why I presented back in that episode, I suggested that instead of using episode numbers because most of the time that people were using episode numbers, it was to be able to reference an episode URL, they would say, like the audacitytopodcast.com episode number there. But what I suggested in that episode was use keyword based URLs, which I did for that episode and I've done for all the episodes since then. So I know, for example, I didn't even have to look this up. I just typed it in because I knew this would work. The audacitytopodcast.com episodenumbers takes you to my episode about episode numbers. Very meta, I know, but I just gave you a URL. And even if I hyperlinked that in the chapter or in the notes for this episode and you tapped on that where would that URL take you? It would take you to a browser and open up the webpage for that episode, potentially taking you out of the podcast app. It might open up a miniature browser inside the podcast app, but functionally, it's still detached from the podcast app experience because you're no longer looking at the episode in a podcast app. You're now looking at the webpage for the episode. So for you to listen to that episode means breaking that experience that you're now detached from the podcast app that you prefer using to listen to podcast episodes. Now, you have to listen in a different way because I've given you a reference to an older episode that you might want to listen to. So that is broken. It takes people out of the podcast apps. They either have to remember the URL, they have to rely on the link being there in the notes, being able to access the notes or the chapters. It depends on a lot of things, and it doesn't really provide the best experience, especially since it takes them outside the podcast app. Instead, you might think, well, you could search for the title within the podcast app. And some podcast apps let you search for the title of episodes. For example, Apple Podcasts, you can search for the title of an episode, and it will search the entire Apple podcast catalog for the title of that episode. You might have trouble then finding my episode that I want to give you. And then you have to make sure that you get the title really correct and you don't mess up or you don't misplace a word or something like that. And that depends on the search engine optimization of the title and such. That starts to get complicated and it's not a pleasant experience. And that's just in one particular app. Overcast, for example, which is my current podcast app of choice for listening to podcasts, does allow you to search for episodes within a podcast you're already looking at. So you could type in the episode title within your subscription to the Audacity to Podcast, and it would take you to that episode, but then you still have to type the title correctly, and you have to remember that title. So that's not really the best way, especially since a lot of apps don't have that kind of search. So instead, if I gave you the name of the episode and I told you, go back and listen to my episode about episode numbers, and I gave you the exact title of the episode, how would you find that in a list of all of my episodes now, more than 400 episodes, how would you find that? You would have to scroll through and read, at least to some level, the title of every single episode until you found that one. And along the way, you might even forget what you're looking for. I say that because I've certainly done that. I've been looking through a list of things, looking for something. Okay, where's that thing? Where's that thing? What is that thing I'm even looking for? I forget now. So I have to go back and find. Oh, yeah, that's what I was looking for. Okay, where was I in the list? See, it starts to get really complicated when you're using only the title to refer back to other episodes. So you would struggle then trying to read the titles of all of the episodes. And some podcast apps might even truncate the titles, making it even harder, especially if a lot of the titles follow the same pattern, like how to, how to, how to, how to. Then you're seeing that take up characters in the title, and maybe the rest of the title is truncated. So it might start to get difficult to find the actual episode that you're looking for. This is the behavior I observed on other podcasters and on my own use in Overcast, trying to find a particular older episode of certain podcasts. Consider instead, if I gave you the episode number, which I said in the beginning of this episode, episode number 175. And imagine then if all the episodes in the list all are numbered and display that number in the same visual location. And that's done differently in different apps. That could be part of the title. It could be some of the metadata. Like in Apple Podcasts, if you use the episode tag, which is technically itunes colon episode tag. If you use that, put your episode number in there, then that episode number will display in a particular way inside of Apple Podcasts and also Pocket Casts and maybe a couple of other apps here and there. But the point is that it displays in the same visual location for every episode. So it's a number, a sequential number. And if all of the episodes display that number in the same place for each episode, then it is very easy to scroll through and find the exact episode you're looking for. Like, here I am, more than 400 episodes. I'm telling you, go back and listen to episode 175. Then you start swiping back and you might get to 250, and then you know, okay, I'm getting close. I'm about 75 away. Then you swipe a little slower, you get down to 200, 180, 176, and then you know, I'm almost there. I'm hot. It's getting hotter. It's hotter, hotter. There it is. It's right there. You can very easily find it because you can in a sense feel how far to go in order to get to that episode. If you're looking at episode 1000, you know you've got a long ways to scroll to get to episode 175. If you're then at episode 200, you know you have a very short way to go to get to episode 175 when the episode numbers are prominent and even front loaded. I know, gasp at that if you want to, but if the episode numbers are very prominently displayed and I've given you an episode number in referencing an other episode, then it's so much easier to find that episode from the episode number without leaving the podcast app. That's the big key within podcasting 2.0. There has been discussion about developing another kind of cross linking technology that could link to other podcasts or even episodes of other podcasts, or the same podcast where when you tap that link, whether it's from the show notes or from the chapter, it would take you to that other podcast or even the same podcast, but take you to that specific episode even without leaving the podcast app. That is not currently possible. Yes, it's possible if you're in Apple Podcasts and you've provided an Apple podcast link, or if you're in Spotify and you've provided a Spotify link, but you can't do that kind of smart detection for a link like that within a podcast app for the notes and the chapters, you're going to be linking people to a webpage or to a podcast listing in a different app. Unfortunately, there is no current way to link to an episode within the same podcast app. So if you want to reference another episode in your podcast, you can reference it by the episode number. And that's so much easier for your audience to get to. And it's not only for past episodes, it could be for upcoming episodes where you know what that episode number will be. For example, I know that my next episode is going to be when you should not use episode numbers, and that's going to be episode number 421. So depending on whenever you're listening to this, you can very easily find that episode, which at this time of recording is a future episode. But it might not be a future episode by the time you're listening to it. But that doesn't matter because you could find that very quickly in a list of numbers by scrolling to wherever421 is. For any episode number I give, it would be very easy and very fast for you to find it in the list where the numbers are displayed very prominently. And here's the big, very important key without leaving the podcast. Applause that is the biggest thing that's changed my mind is recognizing how much the podcast audiences want to stay inside their podcast app. The developers want to keep them inside the app as well, and that's the best experience. Provide it inside the podcast app. My mindset has shifted on this primarily because of working in podcasting 2.0, but also in seeing how other people are using podcast apps and then critically looking at how am I doing this? How am I finding old episodes? Or if someone tells me, you gotta listen to the episode of this podcast, how am I finding that specific episode? If they know the episode number, that's great. Makes it very fast to find it if the episode numbers are prominent. I've spent the most time on this because this is the biggest and I think most important mindset shift when it comes to episode numbers is recognizing what is the best way to make it easier for your audience and so they don't have to leave the podcast app. And until the smart linking feature comes out in podcasting 2.0, and until the podcast apps actually start supporting that kind of smart linking feature, I think the best way to then reference those other episodes is by the episode number. If you don't frequently reference other episodes, then you don't need those episode numbers displayed prominently and you don't need to speak them either. But if you do a teaching podcast, it's very likely you need to reference other lessons that you've taught. And I consider the audacity to podcast to be a teaching podcast, an informational podcast. If you're doing a comedy podcast, you probably don't need to reference old episodes much. If you're doing a TV show for your own podcast, again, you might not be referencing old episodes specifically, like telling people you need to go back and listen to this, or this is relevant to this episode, so you might want to go listen to that. But if you are doing something where you are frequently referencing other episodes, either past episodes or episodes you know are coming in the future, I think you should use episode numbers for that because it will help your audience get to those episodes faster without leaving their podcast app. Then finally moving on to number three, Use episode numbers for file and folder organization. This one is totally hidden to your audience, but it can really help you with your organization. Especially if you sort your files and folders by date modified, and then you modify something that's much older, then it changes the sort order. So if you number your files and folders according to an episode number, that helps very easily order things sequentially. Like for the Audacity to podcast, I'm pretty sure that every episode I've published that hasn't been some kind of special announcement, I've used the format TAP and then a three digit number. I also do that for the folders for each episode, because I archive everything for every episode of the Audacity to podcast, I save all of the master files and the final edits and they're in a folder. I archive them to an external hard drive that gets backed up and all of that, and all of those folders are named the same way. TAP and a three digit number. Sometimes I get creative and you could consider this too, where you could add a hyphen or an underscore and then add a keyword or something else that describes the episode so you can remember when you're looking at that list of files or folders, you can remember what that episode was about. But still, following that pattern of using an episode number works really well. This can also work great if you use POD Chapters, my other product over at podchapters. Com, where then if you follow a pattern for your episodes, you can tell POD Chapters to automatically apply a preset to your files. And that would be automatically Pre filling certain ID3 tags and setting certain transcription options and more based on a file name pattern. Like for the Audacity podcast, I set it to whenever I upload a file that starts with TAP in the file name to automatically apply the preset for the Audacity to podcast. It's a nice time saving feature, especially if you edit multiple different podcasts that then have their own patterns like TAP and ONCE and trn. Those are all patterns I've used in other podcasts that I've hosted. So that would be really easy to upload that file. And Pod Chapters would automatically apply the correct preset to that. And then the episode number helps distinguish which episode that is, and you can add to that after that. But keeping that pattern and using the episode numbers is great for file and folder organization. Even if you never ever speak the episode to your audience. A caution to this is if you prerecord a bunch of episodes in advance and you've numbered them all and then you change your mind on their numbering, then you might have to decide, well, do you renumber the episodes. Or you could even consider maybe don't number the episodes until you actually publish them, and that's when you name their folders based on the numbers and such. That's up to you, and it really doesn't affect your audience because it's how you organize your own files, but episode numbers could help with that. Number four use episode numbers when you can't make better episode URLs. I use the example of episode 175 here, where I know it was the audacitytopodcast.com episodenumbers that links to 175. That's far easier for me to remember than saying theodacitypodcast.com 175 because I wouldn't have known it was episode 175. I had to look up the episode from its URL before I could know, oh yeah, that was episode 175. Consider this especially for podcasts, where it just doesn't make sense to have a single keyword or a key term, a couple of words as a URL, because maybe you've covered multiple topics from the podcast or it's just not something memorable for you or for your audience. But you do want to be able to give your audience a way to get more information from that episode, like the notes, the references, images, videos, downloads, whatever kind of stuff that they will need and they need from a browser. Then it might make sense then to use the episode number in the URL, like theodacitypodcast.com 175. But the caution on this, just like with the previous point, is if you record several episodes in advance and you change the order of those episodes and you have spoken that episode number inside of that episode, that starts to break things and it might get a little confusing, especially if you start out your episode saying this is episode 501, and then maybe you realize, oh no, I'm changing the order. That's actually going to be 505. But you say that in the episode, it starts to get confusing for your audience. Confusing for you. How do you manage that? And this is a reason, and I'll get into this in more detail in my next episode, about when to not use episode numbers. But this is a good reason to not speak the current episode's number within that episode, and that could come to apply to the URLs as well. Try to avoid having to speak the episode's number as its URL, because you might need to change that number, especially if you record multiple episodes in advance, or if you ever might have some kind of episode that you want to squeeze in between other episodes and it's still a normal episode sort might be numbered the same so you don't have to do the thing like this is episode 500A and then episode 500B B or 500.5 or weird things like that 499.5 depending on which way you want to look at it. You don't have to do that kind of thing if you don't actually include the episode number within its own episode. But if you have to, you could use your episode numbers as an easy way to make URLs for those episodes that you're recording for the extra information to get from that episode. But I think there are better ways to share that information anyway. I highly recommend a keyword based thing or point people to the notes even if your notes and I don't recommend doing it this way, but even if your notes are simply click here for the full notes and that takes them to the correct full URL. And that might display more prominently in the podcast apps. And it might be something that it doesn't matter what that URL is as long as it's there and they can tap on it or even link to it from your chapters like that you add with podchapters.com and then number five. Use episode numbers correctly and efficiently in episode titles. There has been some misinformation out there about episode numbers in titles because of some things that Apple has communicated. Apple has said do not put episode numbers in your episode titles. But what they didn't do is clarify what they actually meant by that. I know it sounds like they're saying don't put episode numbers in episode titles, but this is going to blow your mind. They don't actually mean don't put episode numbers in your episode titles. What they meant and what they prefer is in the podcast app, Apple podcasts, and that whole Apple ecosystem, they don't want episode numbers in the episode titles because they've provided a specific different tag for putting your episode number and that's the itunes colon episode tag. And they've also provided to accompany and should go with this, an alternative title tag, which is itunes colon title. And that's where the episode title would go without the episode number. And the point of those tags is for them to be used together when you need episode numbers or season numbers as well, because there is a season number tag. But the point is to separate the data. So instead of having two or three of those pieces of data in the Episode title, they can be separated out and then displayed optimally inside the podcast apps. Like if you look at the Audacity to podcasts inside Apple Podcasts, as long as I haven't broken something in my feed because I experiment with things every now and then, you should see the episode number displayed separately from the episode title in Apple podcasts, because I have the title only in the itunes title tag and the episode number only in the itunes episode tag. But in the normal title tag, I've displayed both of them together. So it's episode number, period, space, episode title. So if you're using a podcast app other than Apple Podcasts or Pocket Casts or the few other apps that use these itunes namespace tags for the title and episode number, then you will see the episode number displayed right there with the title. That's because I'm doing something to support full compatibility and fallback options with all of the podcast apps out there. And unfortunately some podcast hosting providers don't support this properly or they complicate it. And I've talked about this previously in an episode about the sins your podcast hosting provider might be committing. And one of those things is how they handle the episode numbers and episode titles. One podcast hosting provider, for example, only presents one title field for you and an episode number field. And that's fine, that's the ideal way to do it, but then they break that fallback normal title. So in Apple Podcasts and Pocket Casts and a couple of other apps, your episode number displays nicely and separately from your title. But in all the other podcast apps out there, your episode number won't display at all because they're not supporting that fallback and the full compatibility. So that's why I'm saying use episode numbers correctly and efficiently in your episode titles. Go ahead and put them in the normal title tag. If you can modify separately the Apple or itunes title and the Apple or itunes episode number, separate those things in those separate fields and write the full title with the episode number in the normal field. But maybe don't do this on the website itself. And again, it depends. Do the episode numbers really matter to your audience, especially within that particular context? Like in my case, once you're on my website, I think the episode number doesn't matter at all. So it's displayed separately on my website, not in the title. It's displayed in some little meta information because of the theme that I use for my website, which is powered by WordPress still, and I use the second line theme. So if you go to theaudacitytopodcast.com secondline then you can learn more about that theme and purchase it through my affiliate link. I recommend things I only believe in and I use that theme myself. So a way to learn more about this and the very annoying details of this is back in episode 359 or go to the audacitytopodcast.com numbersintitles now you see what I did there? I gave you a URL, but between the episode number and the URL and I gave you both, which one will make it easier for you to find that episode without leaving your podcast applied? It's the episode number, isn't it? See, that's going back to number two. If you share the episode number when referencing other episodes, then make that episode number prominent so it's very easy for your audience to find that other episode. Watch for my next episode, which will be episode 421 when I'll cover when to not use episode numbers. But before I go, special thanks to Brian Insmener from TopTierAudio.com who streamed 519 Satoshis to the Audacity to podcast in his listening. Thank you so much for that support. If the Audacity to Podcast provides some value to you, would you consider giving some value back? Whatever it's worth to you? Go to the audacitytopodcast.com give back and give whatever amount you feel it's worth to you. If you feel like this advice is worth hundreds of dollars, I'd love it if you'd give hundreds of dollars. If you felt like, eh, that's worth a dollar, feel free. Give a dollar, stream a dollar, whatever. Theaudacitytopodcast.com giveback now that I've given you some of the guts and taught you some of the tools, it's time for you to go start and grow your own podcast for passion and profit and maybe even use episode numbers again. I'm Daniel J. Lewis from the audacitytopodcast.com thanks for listening, Sam.