Finding the Business Pain w/ John Kaplan

Summary

The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast

Episode Summary: "Finding the Business Pain w/ John Kaplan" (June 8, 2021)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode centers on identifying and leveraging customer pain within the B2B sales process—specifically, how elite sellers connect both technical and business pains to drive urgency, attach meaningful value, and differentiate their solutions. John Kaplan and Rachel Klopp Miller break down why understanding the business pain (not just the technical one) is crucial to winning and growing deals, with actionable insights anchored in the MEDIC qualification methodology and real-world examples.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Critical Role of Pain in Sales Discovery

• John Kaplan underscores that it’s not enough to simply identify pain; sellers must get customers emotionally engaged with the negative consequences to create urgency.
  • Quote: “It’s not just about understanding the pain. It’s about getting the customer emotionally connected to the negative consequences of the pain to create that urgency of solving it.” (John Kaplan, 00:01)
  • The concept of making the customer “stand in their moment of pain” is framed as a crucial sales skill.
  • Kaplan humorously refers to high-urgency pain as “rip my face off” pain—pain the buyer can’t afford not to address.

2. Differentiating Between Technical and Business Pain

• Technical pain (often experienced by lower-level or technical buyers) differs from economic or business pain (felt by economic buyers/executives).
  • Critical distinction: Technical needs are necessary but insufficient for deal momentum or larger funding.
  • The best sellers connect the dots, positioning their solution where technical pain meets business pain.
  • Quote: “The most elite sellers always position themselves right in the middle of where the technical pain meets the business problem. You have to do both.” (John Kaplan, 02:22)

3. Language Matters: Who You Sound Like is Who You Sell To

• Memorable Maxim: “You get delegated to whom you sound like.”
  • Speak both technical and business languages to move freely within the organization.
  • Sellers must recognize how pain flows up and down the organization; understanding this allows them to “onramp” at different levels and attach their solution to larger business outcomes.
  • Quote: “You better make sure you know who you’re speaking to and what they care about.” (John Kaplan, 02:58)

4. Attaching to the Big Business Issue

• Attaching to business pain isn’t about being the sole solution, but about being an essential part of the overall answer.
• Real-world Example: Kaplan tells a story about an IT staffing company during a bank merger. The rep argued their solution was “just staffing,” but Kaplan clarified:
  • Without their specialized candidates, the multimillion-dollar merger integration couldn’t succeed.
  • Attaching the product/service to the larger business challenge earned the team credibility and ownership in the big picture.
  • Quote: “I'm just asking them to attach to a big business issue and get credit for attaching. Don't get hung up on [being] the sole solution.” (John Kaplan, 05:46)
• If you don't attach, you risk exclusion from stakeholder discussions and funding.

5. The Power of Champions and Coaches in Mapping Pain Flows

• Good champions will tell you the truth and help navigate organizational challenges—political or competitive.
• Champions have a vested interest in your mutual success, and will help you uncover real issues and red flags.
  • Quote: “Good champions will always tell you the truth. They'll deliver bad news that others won't. They'll also assist you in overcoming that news.” (John Kaplan, 07:18)

6. Differentiation: Link Your Strengths to Solving the Pain

• Sellers must frame their differentiation in terms of how they solve the customer’s pain better than anyone else.
  • Quote: “It's critical to align your differentiation to customer pain because in the end, you want to get credit for helping the customer solve that pain better than anybody else.” (John Kaplan, 08:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Rip my face off kind of pain.” (John Kaplan, 01:15)
  Captures the sense of urgency and emotional connection needed in uncovering true business pain.
• “You get delegated to whom you sound like.” (John Kaplan, 02:58)
  A succinct reminder about matching your language and level of conversation to your buyer.
• “Attaching to it gets you in the room, gets you in the conversation, gets you funding. Not attaching... leaves you out of all that.” (John Kaplan, 06:31)
  Emphasizes the tangible outcomes of tying your value to the big business issue.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:01-01:04 – Why emotional connection to pain creates urgency in sales
• 01:51-02:40 – Technical vs. business pain: how to qualify both
• 02:58-03:58 – “You get delegated to whom you sound like” and how pain flows
• 04:09-06:18 – Real-world example: Attaching staffing services to a major business merger
• 06:46-07:57 – Leveraging champions and coaches to map and validate pain
• 08:27-08:54 – The importance of aligning differentiation with the customer’s pain
• 09:00-09:41 – Bottom line: Always ask, “What’s the biggest business issue facing your customer?”

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Bottom Line & Actionable Takeaway

“The bottom line for me today is the first question you should always ask yourself—and be honest: What is the biggest business issue facing your customer?... Next, make sure that you’re always attaching to this big business issue. The most elite sellers position themselves right smack in the middle of where technical pain meets business outcomes. Today, take your rightful seat at the table. Go do it.”
– John Kaplan (09:00)

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Final Thoughts

• Success in complex sales comes from moving beyond features and technical requirements, and focusing on the largest business issues driving your customers.
• Attach your solution to those issues, enlist champions to help trace and validate the pain, and differentiate by showing how only you can solve it “better than anybody else.”
• For sellers and leaders, this episode is a call to raise your level of discovery, value mapping, and internal positioning to create real urgency and impact.

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[For full resources, connect with Force Management and explore previous episodes for deep dives on discovery and champion development.]

Transcript

[John Kaplan]

It's not just about understanding the pain. It's about getting the customer emotionally connected to the negative consequences of the pain to create that urgency of solving it.

[Podcast Host Intro/Outro]

You're listening to the Audible Ready podcast, the show that helps you and your teams sell more faster. We'll feature sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth. Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in B2B sales effectiveness. Let's get started.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

Hello and welcome to the Audible Ready sales podcast. I'm Rachel Klopp Miller, joined by Jon Kaplan. Hi, John.

[John Kaplan]

Hey, Rachel. How are you?

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

I'm great. And today we are going to talk about pain. Identifying pain, it's an important part of Medic, the qualification methodology, but it's also what we're striving for in our discovery. Whether we use medic or not, how do we know when we've got it? What are we doing once we've learned it? John?

[John Kaplan]

Yeah. This topic is Egypt old. The identification of pain is a cornerstone of the qualification process. It's not just about understanding the pain. It's about getting the customer emotionally connected to the negative consequences of the pain to create that urgency of solving it. So you, you will often hear us talk about getting the customer to stand in their moment of pain, which is like a critical sales skill. And I often refer to this as the rip my face off kind of pain that's so urgent and real for the buyer that they have to deal with it now.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

Yeah, I know some of some Force management alumni are probably putting their fists in the air when they hear you say rip your face off.

[John Kaplan]

Right, Right.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

But when we are talking about, let's say a software sale, for example, there's two sides of that pain. There's that technical PA and then there's the economic or business pain. Talk about the differences between the two and how am I making sure I'm qualifying both.

[John Kaplan]

Such a critical critical question and I love it. So technical criteria is important, but it's likely with lower levels in an organization. And these people are important. They influence the sale. But your economic criteria is like where the business level issues and the business value come from. So this is where your funding is gets bigger for the opportunity. And the most elite sellers always position themselves right in the middle of where the technical pain meets the business problem. You have to do both.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

Yeah, that's the point we often talk about. You mentioned the technical buyer is important. They're often lower level. Higher level is the business pain. The economic buyer and that's the point we often talk about that you're going to get delegated to whom you sound like. So you need to have both languages.

[John Kaplan]

I like that a lot. Everybody should write that down. You get delegated to whom you sound like. So you better make sure you know who you're speaking to and what they care about. And this goes that you know, that can be up or down. So how your customers pain points and needs are driven by goals, needs and pains of others within their organization. These are always critical kind of concepts to keep in mind. And there's, there's multiple on ramp, on ramps for any sale. You know, depending on where you are in the sales process, you must be aware of the scope of the problem you are on ramping to. And if you understand the way that pain flows through the organization, you can go up or down depending upon where you need to get to that biggest business issue. So no matter where you are in an organization, always attach yourself and those that you're calling on to the biggest business issues facing that company.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

So talk about that. Jen, what do you mean? We say this a lot, attaching to it. What do you mean by attaching to it? If I'm not fully solving it, I'd love to have you walk through an example for everyone listening.

[John Kaplan]

That's really, really great question. It comes up a lot. So when I was leading sales teams, the first question I would always ask the sellers was what is the biggest business issue facing your customer? And they would always answer with the technical issue that our product or service was solving. And I'd ask them again and again I would get the same kind of response. There was always a connection, however, between the technical problem we were solving to a business problem that the customer was experiencing. And I remember a great example with a rep in an IT staffing company who challenged me during a forecast session when I asked, what's the biggest business issue facing the customer? I was making a big deal out of it. And you know, they, they challenged me by saying, come on Kaplan, it's just staffing. And I'll never forget that it like hung in the air. It's just staffing. And I said, hang on now. Without your extremely qualified embedded candidates for that critical IT project, can that customer pull off that merger? So we were talking about one of the largest banks in the world that was going through a merger and they were supplying highly technical, qualified candidates for that to work on some things on the integration of the merger. And so obviously the answer was no, that they, they couldn't so now, were they the sole solution to those merger challenges? No. But without them, that merger does not happen. And that was a powerful example for that for everybody in that room. They were like, okay, I understand he's not saying that we are the sole reason for the success of this merger, but without us, that company actually won't be successful. So it's a really, really fine line that most sellers struggle with. I'm just asking them to attach to a big business issue and get credit for attaching. Don't get hung up on. You're the sole solution. You're attaching. That's the difference.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

Yeah, that is a really important point. You are a critical component of the solution, and there are many components of the solution. But attaching to it allows you to take credit for helping to solve that business pain.

[John Kaplan]

Yeah. Attaching to it gets you in the room, gets you in the conversation, gets you funding. Not attaching to it because you don't want to take. Try to take credit for everything leaves you out of all of that. So I want people to really sit with that today. Attach to it.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

Yeah, that's really good. And of course, discovery is such a big part of this, and we've talked about it before. John, your concept of hold, I'm sure people have seen the meme that we've shared socially on that. We've linked those resources up in the show notes. So we're not going to go ahead and go through all that today. But when you talk about this pain flow, I want to talk briefly about champions and coaches, because they can help you give that information of how that pain flows. So how do you best use them to map it out in your organization?

[John Kaplan]

Yeah, great. So good champions will always tell you the truth. They'll deliver bad news that others won't. They'll also assist you in overcoming that news. This is very important when dealing with the shifting dynamics of the competitive and political landscapes. You know, the key is to leverage champions to find the truth, find the red flags, and then ultimately eliminate them. Remember, by definition, a champion has a vested interest in your success, which means they need you to be successful. So therefore, they will tell you the truth. Right.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

They're critical components to us having the right information to maneuver these sales. But fully identifying the pain, it's also important. You know, it's part of medic. But fully identifying the pain in terms of also how you can solve it or attach to it with your required capabilities, the outcomes you can drive is also a major component to your being able to differentiate your solution in that sales process.

[John Kaplan]

Like everything else we're talking about this morning, it's about attaching your solution to things and you do the same thing with your differentiation. So it's critical to align your differentiation to customer pain because in the end, you want to get credit for helping the customer solve that pain better than anybody else. And that better than anybody else is where you attach your differentiation to that customer's pain.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

Yeah, really good point there. So let's wrap it up, John, give us our bottom line when it comes to pain.

[John Kaplan]

So the bottom line for me today is the first question you should always ask yourself and be honest with yourself. What is the biggest business issue facing your customer? And if you answer in technical issues, those are important. But I am asking you to answer, what's the biggest business issue facing your customer? Next, make sure that you're always attaching to this big business issue. The most elite sellers position themselves right smack in the middle of where technical pain meets business outcomes. Today I'd like you to go take your rightful seat at the table. Go do it. Ah.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

Go do it. Drop the mic. Thank you, John Kaplan.

[John Kaplan]

You're welcome. Have a great day.

[Rachel Klopp Miller]

Thank you. Thank you to all of you for listening to the Audible Ready Sales podcast. I hope we've given you some valuable tips you can use in your sales conversations today. Also, a shout out to all of you who have gone and rated us five stars on Apple Podcasts. We really appreciate it. And those of you who left those nice reviews, John and I really appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the Audible Ready Sales podcast. At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale. Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get started. Visit [e-mail].

[Podcast Host Intro/Outro]

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