The Audit Podcast
Ep 244: Retired CAE Summer Series – Part 2 w/ Dale Jeanes
Host: Trent Russell
Guest: Dale Jeanes (Retired CAE, former General Auditor at Truist, now Principal at Jeanes Professional Development)
Date: June 10, 2025
Episode Overview
In this segment of the Retired CAE Summer Series, host Trent Russell sits down with Dale Jeanes, former Chief Audit Executive at Truist and now a leadership and audit coach. The episode explores lessons learned from decades of audit leadership, the critical role of self-awareness and innovation in audit, navigating organizational politics, and practical takeaways for personal and team development. With unique candor afforded by retirement, Dale shares honest reflections, actionable strategies, and memorable stories for auditors at all levels.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Using Technology Creatively – The ChatGPT Example
[03:59 – 07:47]
- Dale shares his enthusiasm for experimenting with new tech, especially tools like ChatGPT, which he uses as a "personal assistant" for idea development, drafting case studies, and even planning travel.
- “I treat it like an intern or a personal assistant...it does the first draft and then I certainly own it and edit it and make it my own.” (A, 04:36)
- He emphasizes the importance of staying fresh by trying new technologies, even in retirement, and draws parallels to the need for ongoing innovation in audit.
2. Coachable Leadership: Eliminate "Why" Questions
[09:02 – 14:35]
- Coaching takeaway: When facilitating reflection, avoid "why" questions and use "what" or "how" instead.
- “Eliminate the use of why questions when you are trying to evoke or elicit a reflective answer from somebody.” (A, 09:02)
- "Why" tends to trigger defensiveness or a need to justify; "what" and "how" foster discovery and introspection.
- Example: Instead of, “Why are you nervous?” try, “What’s driving the nervousness for you?”
- Dale wishes he’d known this earlier in his career, emphasizing its usefulness in both audit teams and personal relationships.
- Trent notes this resonates with analytical auditors who may feel put on the spot by “why” questioning.
3. Reflective Practice and Empowering Others
[14:35 – 17:08]
- Dale delineates between mentoring (teaching “what worked for me”) versus coaching (eliciting solutions from others).
- “The coach skill is, let’s elicit from them what might be behind that...what obstacles are getting in your way? What could be a solution you haven’t tried?” (A, 14:35)
- Using these strategies opens up new insights and empowers people to find their own answers.
- Dale shares an anecdote of someone successfully using these techniques with their child for a deeper conversation.
4. Navigating Office Politics – The Principle of Purpose and Objectivity
[18:09 – 21:24]
- The word “politics” often has a negative connotation, but Dale reframes it as “influence.”
- As a CAE, he avoided engaging in organizational politics, instead focusing on purpose and delivering assurance with integrity.
- “I hate to say rising above, but not engaging in that political banter or political back and forth is helpful because I don’t believe that it really helps to achieve your ultimate purpose as the audit leader.” (A, 19:32)
- Objectivity, both as an auditor and as a personal value, guided his approach.
- Trent links this to the auditor’s ingrained focus on independence and objectivity.
5. Innovation Leadership in Audit
[21:24 – 29:25]
- Dale self-identifies as a “Chief Innovation Officer” (unofficially) alongside being CAE.
- “If the role of the leader is not to be, you know, the innovation driver, then who is?” (A, 21:50)
- Focus was not on being cutting edge, but on being a “fast follower” and institutionalizing continuous improvement.
- Practically, this meant:
- Embedding a “consider innovation” step in the audit process documentation.
- Regular consultation with the Center of Excellence for analytics.
- Setting measurable goals (advanced analytics engagement %; analytics-driven findings).
- Creating a culture where auditors have “permission to test and learn.”
- Dell: “Building into your processes the expectation of innovation and change and trying something different is really important.” (A, 23:47)
- Innovation isn't restricted to technology but extends to new approaches, risk management, and assurance.
6. Leadership Lessons: The Bookends of a Career
[29:40 – 36:36]
- First Chapter: Importance of Leadership and Leadership Development
- Early focus in audit was on technical skills, but leadership fundamentals (relationships, communication, self-awareness) matter at every level.
- “We’re all leaders at all levels. If you influence, then you lead.” (A, 30:14)
- Leadership Training: Two key aspects
- Leadership know-how: strategic planning, capacity management, etc.
- Leadership presence/style: How you want to show up and be perceived; building your personal brand.
- “Knowing how you want to show up as a leader early in your career, you can begin to put together...the types of opportunities to help strengthen those skills for you.” (A, 33:07)
- Last Chapter: Integrity
- Integrity goes beyond strict ethics to include consistency, fairness, and dignity in dealings with others.
- “Do the people see you as a leader with integrity, dignity, respect...I think a lot of leaders miss that consistency piece.” (A, 35:09)
7. The Importance of Self-Awareness
[37:10 – 40:40]
- Dale’s closing advice is to prioritize self-awareness in personal and professional growth.
- “Self-awareness is just, just truly important...Self-aware leaders are better leaders because they obviously know themselves, but they know their values, their strengths, their limitations...” (A, 38:13)
- He encourages:
- Regular self-reflection.
- Identifying and challenging self-limiting beliefs.
- Being intentional about your development—incremental improvement leads to significant gains over time.
- Seek feedback if needed, and don’t be afraid to ask for support from peers, friends, leaders, or coaches.
Memorable Quotes & Moments
-
On innovation:
“If the role of the leader is not to be, you know, the innovation driver, then who is?”
— Dale Jeanes [21:50] -
On coaching vs. teaching:
“The coach skill is, let’s elicit from them what might be behind that...how could you reframe this for yourself in a way that’s more positive?”
— Dale Jeanes [14:35] -
On office politics:
“Not engaging in that political banter or political back and forth is helpful because I don’t believe that it really helps to achieve your ultimate purpose as the audit leader.”
— Dale Jeanes [19:32] -
On self-awareness:
“Self-aware leaders are better leaders because they obviously know themselves, but they know their values, their strengths, their limitations...”
— Dale Jeanes [38:13] -
On personal leadership style:
“I often refer to it as your aspirational leadership style.”
— Dale Jeanes [34:54]
Notable Segment Timestamps
| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------| | 03:59 | Dale on using ChatGPT for work & life | | 09:02 | “Coachable moment”: Stop using “why” | | 14:35 | Coaching vs. teaching in leadership | | 18:09 | Lessons on politics & objectivity | | 21:24 | Innovation leadership in audit | | 25:46 | Operationalizing innovation | | 29:40 | Book chapter: Leadership development | | 35:03 | Book chapter: Integrity | | 37:10 | Closing advice: self-awareness |
Takeaways & Actionable Insights
- Shift questioning techniques for better reflection: Replace “why” with “what”/“how” to foster more open, less defensive conversations.
- Lead innovation by design: Bake a step for innovative thinking and process review into audits, support experimentation, and use metrics to drive focus.
- Be objective and purpose-driven: Avoid engaging in organizational politics; maintain focus on serving stakeholders with integrity.
- Develop leadership early: Don’t wait until you’re in senior roles. Actively build communication, relationship, and self-awareness skills from the start.
- Define and strive for your aspirational leadership style: Decide how you want to be seen, align your actions with those values, and make it your brand.
- Cultivate self-awareness: Make time for honest self-reflection, challenge your own limiting beliefs, and seek feedback for continued growth.
Dale closes with a call to intentional self-development, underscoring that consistent attention to self-awareness and embracing a growth mindset are the surest routes to becoming an effective leader—regardless of one’s role or position.