The Audit Podcast | Ep 253: AI, Learning, and Leadership in Internal Audit w/ Jessica Rodgers (EY)

Date: September 5, 2025
Host: Trent Russell
Guest: Jessica ("Jess") Rodgers, Global Internal Audit Leader at EY

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the journey, insights, and leadership philosophy of Jessica Rodgers, Global Internal Audit Leader at Ernst & Young. Jess and Trent deep-dive into the impact of AI (especially Generative AI) on the internal audit profession, strategies for lifelong learning and leadership, and how to effectively disrupt traditional training and upskilling methods at scale. In a candid and inspiring conversation, Jess shares stories from her own career path, how technology is transforming audit, and why curiosity and critical thinking are foundational skills for the future.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Power of Curiosity & Giving Yourself Grace

• Curiosity as a Core Value:
  Jess stresses the importance of curiosity in both personal life and internal audit, especially in a fast-changing environment.

  “Being curious is…couldn’t be more important. It was important before, I think it’s important now.” — Jess Rodgers [00:00]

• Self-Compassion in Ambitious Careers:
  Jess reminds listeners about the unrealistic pursuit of perfection and the value of unique personal perspectives.

  “We all hold ourselves to this really high bar…striving for this unachievable perfection sometimes. But…collectively, that’s what is most powerful and adds the most value to an organization.” — Jess Rodgers [00:30, 39:45]

2. Career Journey: Resilience, Risk-Taking, and Purpose

• Non-traditional Start & Grit:
  Jess opens up about starting at community college due to financial difficulties, working two jobs through school, and earning significant scholarships.

  “I’m going to go out on a limb. I’ve never been this transparent with how I’ve gotten to where I am…The money just wasn’t there…I had to figure it out myself.” — Jess Rodgers [10:37–11:10]

• Breaking Into Big 4:
  She leveraged a less time-intensive mentorship program offered by EY to get her foot in the door, since standard internships were not feasible.
• Transition and Leadership Lessons:
  • Early on, Jess switched from external to internal audit, taking a risk by leading a SOX/internal audit function at a junior level.
  • A pivotal mentor taught her key leadership lessons—including the perils of taking credit as an individual and the importance of team recognition.

    “At that point…I was taking credit for the entire team’s work. And that’s just not good. That’s not fair. Everyone’s worked hard...It’s about the team, not about one person.” — Jess Rodgers [19:30–20:00]

• Surviving Personal and Professional Setbacks:
  Jess recounts her return to EY after the credit crisis and her breast cancer diagnosis, underscoring the support she received and the necessity of finding one’s personal purpose, not just professional ambition.

  “I was trying to sort out…and that experience drives a lot of why and how I am the way I am today and how I lead.” — Jess Rodgers [15:00–15:30]

• Curating Feedback Circles:
  She intentionally keeps people around her who provide honest, sometimes tough, feedback—critical for growth.

3. AI & GenAI: Promise, Risk, and Transformation

• Personal & Professional Integration of AI:
  Jess describes how she uses GenAI (including EY’s proprietary platform, EYQ) for everything from family vacation planning to in-depth meeting preparation.

  “I use Gen AI in almost everything I do...On the work front...I leverage them in every, in really all of my work. Most simply preparing for meetings.” — Jess Rodgers [04:31–04:46]

  • AI as an everyday tool: family voting on vacation plans, college research, automating meeting prep.

• AI in the Audit Lifecycle:
  Internal audit is being rapidly transformed through AI at every stage.

  • Efficiency Gains: Tasks like report writing and stakeholder communication can be vastly improved.

    “Nothing breaks down trust…like going back and forth with a stakeholder on a report with grammatical errors and poor writing. But now with GenAI tools, that’s a thing of the past.” — Jess Rodgers [23:25–23:44]

  • Strategic Value: Focus shifts to analysis, critical thinking, and meaningful stakeholder engagement.

• Risks and the Human Element:

  • Over-reliance on AI: AI outputs are compelling but can be inaccurate (hallucinations).

    “What is required for that is critical thinking skills and patience and curiosity…if you don’t have those critical thinking skills…it can be a challenge and there’s risk in there.” — Jess Rodgers [25:36–26:19]

  • Critical Thinking, Curiosity, Patience: These soft skills are increasingly vital, and audit leaders must invest in developing them on their teams.

    “We have to make sure our teams…have the critical thinking skills and that they’re working on that…When we’re hiring, making sure…they’re curious, they’re skeptical, they’re approaching things differently.” — Jess Rodgers [24:04–24:54]

4. Learning, Upskilling, & Training at Scale

• Disrupting Traditional Training:
  Formal, static training paradigms are out. Training must be flexible, diverse, and tailored to how modern professionals learn.

  “To sit in front of a web-based learning or…in a classroom, is that really truly realistic?…we have to come up with different mechanisms to keep pace…but without burning our team members out.” — Jess Rodgers [31:19–32:36]

  • Ideas include using podcasts, audiobooks, micro-learning, and leveraging feedback to optimize training delivery.

• Personal Ownership of Learning:
  Jess advocates a “meet your organization halfway” approach—individuals must proactively pursue knowledge.

  “You shouldn’t place complete reliance on your organization…to give you all the learning you need to be successful…you need to invest in yourself.” — Jess Rodgers [33:03–33:47]

• How Jess Picks Her Learning:
  Combines fun and relevance: looks at current risk trends, emerging tech (especially AI and quantum computing), and ensures content is engaging for her style.

  “I also try and make it a bit fun. Something of interest to me…if it’s going to be too painful…even if it’s top-rated sometimes…I’ll pass.” — Jess Rodgers [35:12–36:54]

5. Interviewing & Hiring for Curiosity and Critical Thinking

• Assessing Curiosity in Interviews:
  Look for candidates who ask deep, probing questions about the role and day-to-day realities.

  “If someone doesn’t come with questions…are they truly going to be curious?” — Jess Rodgers [29:15–30:00]

• Critical Thinking Measurement:
  Ask for real-life or hypothetical scenarios where candidates must demonstrate how they analyze and solve problems.

6. Practical AI & Travel Insights

• Personal AI Use:
  AI is a daily tool for both personal and professional decisions (travel research, culinary planning).

  “I will say, I want to go to a location that might have a holiday market…that feels like a Hallmark movie. Like, I type in the feel, the look…it comes up with recommendations.” — Jess Rodgers [07:49–08:22]

• Travel Tips:
  Jess and Trent resonate over using both AI and fun media (like “Somebody Feed Phil”) for culinary and cultural research when planning trips.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jess on Career Resilience:
  “There’s something to be said about how hard I had to work…there was a level of entrepreneurship having to navigate…” [12:50]

• On Leadership Lessons:
  “If you’re going to continue to grow…this is going to trip you up in the future. Let me help you here.” — Jess Rodgers (on team vs. solo credit) [20:26]

• On the Value of Honest Feedback:
  “Keep people around you who will tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.” [16:44]
  “It’s not easy to receive the feedback all the time, and I may not like it…but I stay true to myself and put my best foot forward every day.” [17:48–18:41]

• On Learning from Observation:
  “I’m a firm believer of staying curious. And part of staying curious is watching and observing…There’s a learning opportunity in almost everything every day.” [21:43]

• On AI & Human Judgment:
  “This [GenAI] feels like your best friend…when you get the results, sometimes you have to be able to question: Is this truly right?” [25:07]

• On Training:
  “You have to keep pace with the learning…but without burning our team members out…different modalities that keep it interesting, keeps it interactive, avoids learning burnout…” [32:29–33:03]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Curiosity and Self-Compassion in Audit: 00:00–00:52, 39:45
• AI in Everyday Life (Travel & Work Examples): 03:11–08:47
• Jess's Unique Career Path & Resilience: 10:27–16:44
• Mentors, Bad Habits, and Honest Feedback: 18:43–21:43
• AI’s Impact on Audit Processes: 22:28–26:21
• Human Skills Amid GenAI Adoption: 25:36–26:19, 28:01
• Interviewing for Curiosity and Critical Thinking: 29:15–31:00
• Disrupting Training & Upskilling: 31:19–34:00
• Personalizing Independent Learning: 35:09–36:54
• Food & Travel Planning with AI: 37:55–39:22
• Final Wisdom on Value, Innovation, and Grace: 39:45

Conclusion: Key Takeaways

• Curiosity and critical thinking are cornerstones of future-ready audit teams—especially as AI disrupts every phase of the audit lifecycle.
• Personal resilience, authenticity, and honest feedback are critical to career growth and leadership.
• Continuous learning must be proactive, fun, and flexible—organizations and individuals both have responsibilities.
• With the right mindset, AI is a powerful ally, not a threat, elevating both personal and organizational value.
• Above all, give yourself some grace, leverage your unique perspective, and embrace the innovation that comes—even from mistakes.

Memorable final thought:

“There’s innovation in mistakes…with the technology that is available to us, there’s more innovation in these mistakes than was ever possible.” — Jess Rodgers [40:45]

This episode is a masterclass in weaving together resilience, digital transformation, and human-centric leadership for the next era of internal audit.