B (3:26)

Okay. Yeah, I like that. Especially doing it amongst the team. And it's an easy. I think people are into that kind of thing, you know, like, it's, it's easy to do. I think there's always like, oh, if I knew how to do Photoshop, I would do this, this and this. And then you crack Photoshop open and realize there's no way I'm going to learn this. It is not, it is not easy. So to be able to just throw it into AI Tool now is pretty cool. There's been some pretty, pretty good stuff out there.

A (3:49)

Yeah. And even if you can learn it, you don't have the time to learn it. So this is amazing. It's like you sit it and then you go do something and then a minute later it's all generated for you.

B (3:58)

Yeah, I was doing. I got put in charge of our flag football team for a bunch of 7 year olds and I was just like, I don't. I mean, so it gave me a playbook that was pretty sweet. And it was like, do you want me to create the diagram for you? It was awful at that. But the idea of the play that it gave me, I said, give me the single best running play, the single best pass play, and it typed it out. So in the text version, I read it and I went, yeah, I get that, that makes sense. But then I said, diagram it and it was awful. I mean, there's like three lines of scrimmage. There's no center in one of them. It was really, really odd. So there's still some work to be done on the flag football diagramming, but I don't think that's their biggest concern.

A (4:42)

Right now as far as the professional chap GPT prompt that I use, generative AI prompt that I use. I love being able to use generative AI in the planning process. We don't have a local instance that's protected. So really we use it more from a research summarization perspective because we can't put in any confidential information. So one of the things that we'll do is if we have a generic audit, say procurement, we'll put in a prompt saying please generate a risking controls matrix for a procurement audit that's budgeted for 300 hours in the column. Add one for risk, the associated risk level next to it, high, medium, low. Then put the controls that are typically associated with that, the audit procedures that are typically associated with that, allocate the hours in the field work column to be able to allocate that, assuming 250 hours are going of that 300 to field work and then based on the level of complexity, assign it out to either staff, a senior or a manager and then have the final product come out in a Microsoft Excel file. So that's been a really powerful thing. Within less than a minute you can generate draft risk and controls matrix that historically we've seen get you 70 to 80% of the way there from a final product of your risk and controls matrix. Super powerful.

B (6:09)

I think the thing that you hit on that maybe folks don't know still potentially is the specificity that you gave it. And so that's critical and you can't do this in your instance. But anyone who does have a lockdown enterprise version to take like an RCM and go, here's an example. Examples are one of the best things you can do prompting wise. Say like here's an example of what I want the output to look like, or here's examples of, you know, how I write emails or like whatever, you know, whatever you're using it for. Examples are always really big and important. I was curious some of how long you guys have been doing this and if you've been able to track it. I think the hours thing is interesting. I'd be curious how accurate it was with that. And then also if you're doing, let's say an audit is 300 and 250 goes towards field work. In using even just that one prompt during planning, have you seen a decrease in the hours per audit?

A (7:06)

We've seen a significant decrease on the planning side for this within the hours. Obviously still you need to be able to vet this out, do your own validation. It's just a tool, not A be all, end all to be able to copy and paste and have that be your final rcm. But we've definitely seen a lot of time that spent towards conventional research go away. Because you have this as a preliminary, you vet it out, you look to make sure, is this complete? Is it accurate? Accuracy is easy. The completeness is where you want to make sure that you're not missing anything from risk standpoint. But yeah, no, it's. It's been a huge efficiency gain on that side. And then as we build out our AI capabilities in house, we see a lot of opportunity in the field work and reporting phase as well.

B (7:56)

And then what about the accuracy? When it goes like this should take 10 hours. Like when it puts together some kind of hourly budget, how accurate has that been?

A (8:02)

You feel like we've seen that pretty accurate. It's plus or minus. And sometimes it's just based on experience levels for the team. Might say a typical senior can do it this way, but if it's a first year senior versus a third year senior, it depends a little bit there, but it gets you within the ballpark, plus or minus. And then overall it ends up coming pretty darn close to what it should be. So it's. It's great in that way.

B (8:28)

Hey, everybody, we're gonna take a quick break from our guests. And if you need to get analytics or AI actually working in your internal audit department, or if you already have some of it, you feel like you're not really getting exactly what you need out of it, you know there's more you're not getting that. Go to the Show Notes, look for the Green Skies analytics link. Click it on the website. There'll be other links that you can click that will take you directly to a calendar to schedule time. It's literally three clicks to get the time scheduled to get it figured out. All right, back to the show. So the main reason we're here, we want to talk about the IA Emerging Leaders Mentoring program. I know it's something you've been involved with, I think, since the inception.

A (9:06)

Right.

B (9:06)

You were kind of one of the founding fathers, if we call it that.

A (9:10)

I was one of the founding guinea pigs. So I was a pilot program as a mentee.

B (9:15)

Got it. Okay. So for those that aren't aware, what is it and why should people sign up to be a mentee and then why should they also potentially or otherwise sign up to be a mentor?

A (9:26)

So it is the largest internal audit mentorship program in the globe. So we open up to all IA members globally. So so we're covering 50 different states as of last year with 850 participants, including mentors, mentees. So it allows young emerging internal auditors to be able to get connected with seasoned internal auditors, managers, CAEs directors to be able to help give career advice, candid, constructive career advice on how they could be able to develop their skills. And it does it in a safe environment where, you know, sometimes you might not want to ask certain questions to your manager and expose weak spots or something like that. It gives good opportunity and there's also gives you fresh perspective because in theory, your manager is already giving you that kind of feedback on a periodic basis. It's good to get it from a different perspective and have somebody to be able to help you along the way. So it's a great program in that way. Like I said, I was a mentee in the first year and I've been involved in the program on administrative side ever since. This is going to be my first year where I'm going to be a mentor as well. So it's nice to be a part of all the different cycles of the program.

B (10:44)

Got it. And what is the like somebody who's listening goes, yep, that sounds great. I want to be a mentee. How do they get signed up? What's the process? And then on the other side, if someone wants to be a mentor, how.

A (10:54)

Do they go about that simple process? So it's right on the IA's website and we'll have a link down below in the show notes. But you just go on do a quick application where IT asks a few questions of you to help be able to match your person. So say you're someone with three years of experience focusing in on the IT audit area and you want to be able to really become the SME IT auditor. You could be able to put that in. You could say, I'm really looking for somebody that has IT audit background that's in a leadership role in banking. And we could be able to look through the pool of candidates that applied for a mentor and be able to pair you up with the best person. So we take a look at that to see is there somebody within your geographic region that matches up with that and try to make the best possible match for you to be able to help get you where you need to be. So simple process. It took me like two minutes to be able to apply as a mentor. So very easy. Great way to be able to give back to profession as a mentor.

B (11:53)

Okay, and then how many did you have? Like how many did you guys have.

A (11:56)

Last year that signed up 850 people that actually got into the program. We had even more that signed up. But it's a member exclusive opportunity. So some people that signed up that weren't members, we encourage them sign up. It's definitely worth the membership fee. It's a great member value for people that are already members.

B (12:16)

Okay, and then what was your experience when you were a mentee? Like if someone again they're listening like yeah, I mean I'm kind of interested but like Alex, you went through it. What was your experience like?

A (12:27)

So when I started it, it was in 2019 so I got paired with Seth Peterson. Anybody that's been around for a while knows Seth is loves the Institute of Internal Auditors. Really dedicated in the profession. At that time he was the CAE within a bank. I was a senior IT auditor at kpmg. Really helped me to be able to build out a roadmap helped me towards certifications. We co authored an article together for the Institute of Internal Honors magazine which then won the outstanding contributor award. So great, great success story there. And after the formal program end we still stayed in contact. I was texting him this weekend because I'm from the Albany, New York area and he was at an Iowa game watching UAlbany get get absolutely trampled by Iowa. So there is still stay in contact. I ask him professional questions all the time. He's the chief risk officer now but still has a wealth of knowledge within audit. So I still stay in contact. We, we still will exchange questions be able to help out even though he ends up helping me out more than I do him.

B (13:38)

And what about the. I'm sure there's some kind of feedback mechanism throughout the program or at the end of it, something like that. What, what do you hear feedback wise from the mentees?

A (13:50)

Yeah. So there's monthly check ins just to be able to do a temperature check to see if there's anything we need to be able to reach out mentee mentor side and then there's formal surveys that happen twice throughout the program to really get some good data points in. What we've seen is some of the great feedback is people that were on the fence or didn't really know how to be able to take their their steps towards the next level. Whether it be a hey, I want to be a certified internal auditor but I'm not really getting a lot of support internally within my company or I need to be able to ask more questions and someone's too busy having that one on one Meeting monthly or quarterly, whatever the cadence you guys agree on. And having that accountability has really helped people to push their careers forward. Also some people that might be in a role where, you know, they've been a senior internal auditor forever and there's just, it's small department. So there's just not that opportunity right now and they're ready to move on. It's just because they haven't had that opportunity, they've been scared to look out. And getting advice from somebody has been helpful. So we've seen people, you know, either get internal promotions or end up going somewhere else and being able to leverage the experience they had to grow their careers. So I think it's really great, especially if you're looking for that guidance or accountability through a formal program.

B (15:08)

So you said you started this in 2019 and so here we are six years later. What's different from the 2019 version to the 2025 version?

A (15:18)

A lot has changed. So when we started it was a pilot program. 20 participants, 10 mentees, 10 mentors, all just within North America. Since then it's expanded 50 different countries, 850 participants. A lot more structure within the program, more real time touch points, better technology along the way to be able to communicate, flag things back. Historically it was more of a grassroots volunteer initiative, but as the program has gotten bigger, it's gone from 100% volunteer support to being able to dedicate full time IIA resources to this. So that's also open the door to IIA technology which makes this process a lot more streamlined, a lot easier and better to be able to communicate real time and be able to address problems because we have dedicated resources versus somebody that's reading their email at 10 o' clock at night after finishing a day of work.

B (16:19)

Got it. Okay. And then how long like set up the logistics almost. I think September 15th is the cutoff date to get signed up. And then like what happens next and how long does the program last?

A (16:31)

So September 15th is the deadline for applications. Then it goes through an internal matching process where a group of volunteers that are primarily former emerging leaders recipients go through, match those people up, mentees and mentors, based on their best match, what the mentees are looking for, what the mentors are looking for. Then an orientation is scheduled in the first week of November for both mentees mentors and then the official program starts on November 15th and that runs through May 31st. So along the way there you'll set up a cadence. We've seen it's up to mentees and mentors we encourage a monthly meeting cadence, but we've seen some people that say, hey, quarterly, based on how busy our schedules are. We've seen ones that meet weekly. It all depends on what your mentee mentor availability is there. And we encourage whatever they mutually agree on is the best thing for everybody. On that, even if you only meet a handful of times, it's still better than not going through the program. So I think it's a great opportunity there.

B (17:40)

So when it's over in May 31, what happens after the program is over? Is there, like, transition, or do you kind of wait until the next year opens? What does that look like? And how does the mentor mentee relationship either get maintained or move forward? What does that look like?

A (17:57)

So the formal program ends, but then it's up to you and your mentor to be able to see do you want to continue the relationship. Some mentors just say, hey, I always participate in this program, and I only have X amount of available time, so I'd love to, but I can't because I want to keep giving back to the profession. Others say, hey, let's stay connected. Like I said, I was a mentee. Seth Peterson was my mentor. We still stay in contact, and it's been six years later, so it's a great option. It varies depending on mentee mentor experience and what they have from a capacity standpoint. But if you want to keep going, you can be able to wait until the beginning of August for the new application window to open up, and then you can get connected with a new mentor. We encourage typically to, if you're looking to participate in the program again, to ask for a new mentor just because it gives you a fresh perspective.

B (18:50)

All right, well, Alex, appreciate you coming on. I had heard of mentor programs and the ia, but I did not realize that this was it and the formality of it and the success of it also. Those 850, I think, is what you said is pretty impressive. So thank you a ton for coming on to share that. I think it's fascinating and interesting. I don't think there's a person who has a mentor who would say, yeah, having a mentor is a bad idea. I mean, you might get a bad one. But nonetheless, they are very helpful. So, anyway, with all that said, anything else, what do you want to leave the the audience with?

A (19:26)

So I want to leave you with that. This is a great opportunity. I encourage you to invest in yourself, invest in your career, and invest in our profession, whether it be a mentor mentor. We've seen people come out with a ton from this program on both sides, so I'd highly encourage you to be able to apply see if it's right for you, but at least give it a try. I think you're going to really appreciate what the program has to offer and hopefully you become a lifelong participant in this program.

B (19:59)

Hey everyone, thank you very much for listening to this episode of the Audit Podcast. Whatever platform you're listening on right now, I'm sure there's a subscribe button somewhere, so please hit the subscribe subscribe button there. If you're listening through itunes or Spotify, feel free to go give us that five star rating. It only took me about 16 seconds to give myself a five star review and it really helps to get future guests to come on the show, so we'd really appreciate that. Lastly, be sure to check out the show notes and follow us on all our social media channels, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, and on TikTok. Also, if interested, please sign up for our weekly newsletter from the Audit Podcast. Thank you all. Have a great one.