The Audit Podcast – Ep 255: “Follow the Risk” with Richard Chambers (AuditBoard) Host: Trent Russell
Guest: Richard Chambers, Risk and Audit Senior Advisor for AuditBoard
Date: September 16, 2025

Episode Overview

In this special 50th career anniversary episode, Trent Russell is joined by Richard Chambers—AuditBoard Senior Advisor, Chair of UNICEF’s Audit Advisory Committee, former IIA President/CEO, and internationally recognized thought leader in internal audit. The discussion bridges critical lessons learned across five decades, the present and future of internal audit, and practical advice for all levels in the profession. With characteristic candor, Chambers shares not only his insights on risk, culture, bravery, and value creation, but also responds to listener-favorite questions and explores the evolution of the auditor’s role in the age of AI.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Culture, Ethics, and the Influence of AI

[03:53-07:14]

• Chambers discusses his latest focus on organizational culture, including a new AuditBoard report on the subject.
  • He reveals how AI is involved in shaping and reflecting culture, illustrating the connection between “top-down” support for innovation and team attitudes toward technology.
  • Chambers notes that reluctance to adopt AI often signals a culture resistant to innovation:

    “…I feel like what I'm hearing there is probably a reflection of the culture in their organizations, that it's not a culture that promotes or values innovation.” (06:36, Chambers)

2. Organizational Politics: Navigating the Audit Committee, Management, and CAE Dynamics

[07:14-11:59]

• Chambers delves into the “politics” within organizations, focusing on:
  • The critical relationship between Chief Audit Executives (CAEs), audit committees, and management.
  • Risks of compromised objectivity if the CAE yields to management pressure or loses audit committee support.

    “If there's a strained relationship between the Chief Audit Executive and the Audit Committee, that's a real red flag. ... You're a CAE who's an accident waiting to happen.” (09:35, Chambers)

  • He candidly observes empty platitudes from committees:

    “I've always found that cliche of, oh, we're going to stand right behind you… In a lot of cases, it's just kind of cliche... when the real friction starts, a lot of those audit committees… pretend they don't hear it or see it.” (10:54, Chambers)

3. Courage, Integrity, and Bravery in Audit Leadership

[11:59-15:44]

• Integrity is not enough—auditors must also possess courage.
  • Chambers relates how CAEs sometimes must “talk with their feet” and leave organizations if asked to perform unethical acts or lack support.

    • “…you've got to have not only integrity, because I think most of us have integrity, but you got to have courage. And those are two very different things.” (11:59, Chambers)

    • Trent adds a relatable perspective on bravery:

      “…you do the thing that you're supposed to do, even though there is fear… Be scared. It's okay to be scared. But then go do the thing that you have to do.” (13:41, Trent Russell)

4. Seeking Guidance, Mentorship, and Community

[15:22-16:10]

• Both agree on the value of scenario planning and mentorship. Trent emphasizes reaching out for advice as a sign of wisdom, not weakness.

5. Actionable Advice: “Follow the Risk”

[16:10-18:00]

• Chambers delivers his signature advice:
  • Auditors are too often drawn to “fluff” and safe topics but must map activities to risk.
  • Risk-based audit planning is relatively recent (post-2002) yet not consistently followed:

    “…internal auditors can audit anything, but they can’t audit everything. Then, what's the differentiator? Well, it's where the risks are. …I still find that a lot of internal audit departments just don't really build risk centric audit plans.” (16:39, Chambers)

  • This is his first “grab-them-by-the-shoulders” imperative for all auditors.

6. Value Creation vs. Value Protection & The Role of Foresight

[18:00-22:08]

• Chambers distinguishes “value protection” (assurance, control testing—now increasingly automatable via AI) from “value creation” (identifying new opportunities, offering foresight).

  • “…an internal auditor who's able to help you figure out where to put new doors and new windows is more valuable than one who tells you whether the ones you have are locked or not.” (18:18, Chambers)

  • He elaborates on the triad of hindsight, insight, and foresight. Foresight is central for future-ready auditors:

    “Foresight is never about forecasting. …It's being able to help them appreciate the risks of inaction…” (18:18, Chambers)

7. How to Develop Foresight and 'Superpowers' for Auditors

[20:03-24:02]

• Foresight comes with experience, maturity, and deep business acumen.
• Chambers’s formula for “agents of change” (from his book):
  • Business acumen
  • Relationship acumen
  • Innovation
• Superpowers auditors must cultivate: creative thinking, intellectual curiosity, verbal communication, and especially, business acumen:

  • “I don't see an internal auditor being very valuable or very effective in the future if they don't have certain degree of business acumen.” (22:08, Chambers)

8. The Future of Internal Audit: Transform or Become Irrelevant

[24:02-26:38]

• Chambers discusses the dual existential disruptors: “perma crisis” (constant risk, volatility) and AI.
  • Internal audit’s relevance and value hinge on transformation—not complacency.

  • “Complacency... is the biggest strategic threat to the future of internal audit in any way.” (26:03, Chambers)

9. Passion, Emotional Intelligence, and the Irreplaceable 'Human' Side

[26:38-29:10]

• Passion—not pure IQ—differentiates great auditors.
• Emotional intelligence, relationship skills, and the “inner flame” are increasingly vital as AI augments routine tasks:

  • “The smartest internal auditor in the room may not be the best, and in many cases they aren't… their intellect controlled their behavior to the point where they weren't able to connect with the client...” (28:02, Chambers)

10. Creativity—The Next Frontier (Where AI Can’t Compete)

[29:10-31:14]

• Both agree: AI is not (yet) creative; human creative input is required to frame problems and apply tools in novel ways.

  • “AI doesn't…it's not creative. …So the creativity that you apply to the tool [AI] that's going to be significantly more important.” (30:17, Trent Russell)

11. Reflections & the Evolution of Audit Practice (Through Chambers’s Books)

[32:08-38:35]

• Chambers’s sequence of books chronicles the profession’s shift from:
  • Hindsight → Trusted advisor status → Agents of change → Collaboration across lines (risk, compliance, etc.).
  • First book: Context and lessons for auditors (autobiographical, lessons learned)
  • Last chapter: Looking forward—earning a “seat at the table”
  • Core second piece of advice to young professionals:

    “…Write your own story. Don’t let someone else tell you how you have to live your career…don’t feel like it’s scripted to the point you can’t do what you're passionate about.” (34:30, Chambers)

  • Chambers illustrates with his own career path, defying the conventional Big Eight route to pursue what aligned with his interests and priorities at the time.

12. Final Advice: “Be Passionate About What You Do”

[39:02-41:03]

• The episode closes where it began: with the importance of passion, both for one’s work and for its broader impacts.

  • “…be passionate about this because you're doing really, really important work. You're helping to foster trust in institutions.…the culmination of your work and that of all of your peers is elevating and sustaining the trust that others have in your organization.” (39:02, Chambers)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On risk-based audit planning:

  “Internal auditors can audit anything, but they can’t audit everything. ... What's the differentiator? Well, it's where the risks are.”
  (16:39, Chambers)

• On courage vs. integrity:

  “…You got to have not only integrity, because I think most of us have integrity, but you got to have courage. And those are two very different things.”
  (11:59, Chambers)

• On business acumen and transformation:

  “I don't see an internal auditor being very valuable or very effective in the future if they don't have certain degree of business acumen... we have to be able to leverage those superpowers.”
  (22:08, Chambers)

• On legacy and advice to young auditors:

  “Write your own story. Don’t let someone else tell you how you have to live your career…”
  (34:30, Chambers)

• On fostering trust and the auditor’s higher calling:

  “…you're doing really, really important work. You're helping to foster trust in institutions.... the culmination of your work and that of all of your peers is elevating and sustaining the trust that others have in your organization.”
  (39:02, Chambers)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:53] – Chambers discusses his summer work, culture, and AI
• [07:14] – Office politics and CAE-audit committee dynamics
• [11:59] – Courage vs. integrity in audit leadership
• [16:39] – “Follow the risk”—Chambers’ shoulder-shake advice
• [18:18] – Value creation vs. value protection
• [20:23] – Developing foresight as an auditor
• [22:08] – Business (or operational) acumen as table stakes
• [24:21] – Profession predictions, even “without AI”
• [26:38] – Passion and emotional intelligence
• [29:19] – AI as the ultimate “smartest auditor,” and human competitive advantage
• [30:17] – The human, creative edge over AI
• [32:08] – Reflections through the structure of Chambers’s books
• [34:30] – “Write your own story”—career-defining advice
• [39:02] – Closing thoughts on passion, trust, and the profession’s mission

Conclusion

This episode offers a master class in audit leadership, risk-centric thinking, and the “soft” skills and mindsets most vital to the profession’s future. Chambers’s hallmark advice to “follow the risk” and “write your own story” resonates throughout, making clear that audit is not merely a technical discipline, but a vocation requiring courage, foresight, and sustained passion for creating and protecting value in organizations and society.

Recommended for:

• Aspiring and seasoned auditors
• Audit leaders (CAE, directors)
• Anyone rethinking their approach to risk, career progression, or integrating technology into audit practice

For more from Richard Chambers, see his books: “Lessons Learned on the Audit Trail,” “Trusted Advisors,” “Agents of Change,” and the new (updated) “Speed of Risk.”