The Audit Podcast Ep 257: Why Public Sector Projects Fail w/ Matthew Oleniuk

Host: Trent Russell
Guest: Matthew Oleniuk (Founder, The Risk Insider; former CAE in public sector)
Date: September 30, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Trent Russell sits down with Matthew Oleniuk, an experienced public sector Chief Audit Executive and founder of The Risk Insider. Their discussion revolves around why public sector projects so often fail, the systemic issues at play, and actionable insights for both auditors and leaders. Oleniuk draws on his decade-and-a-half of leadership to dispense practical advice on effective audit practices, risk management, empowerment, and transforming stagnant project governance into accountable, successful delivery.

The conversation weaves through leadership philosophies, audit pitfalls, the mechanics of public sector project oversight, and the difference between documenting compliance and driving real effectiveness. They also touch on the role of AI tools like ChatGPT in delegating, learning, and empowering audit teams.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trap of Audit Reliance on Tools

Timestamp: [00:00], [06:29]

• Oleniuk highlights a recurring issue where auditors, especially in the public sector, focus too much on checking for the existence of controls or processes but neglect probing their effectiveness.
• Key Quote:

  “If we're auditing a function, we're looking for existence, but we're not necessarily looking for effectiveness. And that's really the core value that audit can provide.”
  — Matthew Oleniuk [06:40]

• He repeatedly observed audits that documented everything “by the book,” yet the audited areas still failed to deliver as intended, pointing to the need for root cause analysis, not just compliance checks.

2. Governance Gaps and The Illusion of Oversight

Timestamp: [06:29], [12:04]

• Governance structures often look robust on paper: committees, meeting minutes, membership—yet real oversight is lacking.
• The failure is traced back to being “reliant on the machine” of governance and not on engaged, accountable individuals.
• Key Quote:

  “We rely a heck of a lot on the infrastructure and on the notion that we have so many eyeballs on this, that everything must be fine... There’s just so much reporting going on that it becomes kind of a churn.”
  — Matthew Oleniuk [13:00]

• Russell connects this to the classic “diffusion of responsibility” theory from psychology: when everyone's responsible, no one is.

3. Effective Delegation, Team Empowerment, and Leadership Style

Timestamp: [02:43], [16:40]

• Oleniuk credits much of his success to empowering teams—giving stretch assignments and room to grow, rather than doing everything himself.
• Key Quote:

  “The more that individual team members can take on, the more the collective will be able to deliver. So that means empowering team members as much as possible, giving them stretch assignments as much as possible.”
  — Matthew Oleniuk [08:10]

• Reflects on his own experience: where teams matured, he purposefully made himself “almost redundant”—a sign of successful leadership.
• Describes balancing freedom and support, and shares strategies for “managing up” when being micromanaged.
• Memorable Tip:
  Oleniuk points at an imaginary spot off to the side during difficult work conversations, symbolically shifting focus from “personal conflict” to “the work,” making these talks less emotionally charged and more productive. [21:30]

4. AI and the Transformation of Delegation

Timestamp: [02:43], [20:49]

• Oleniuk is a prolific user of ChatGPT and similar tools, seeing them as a “super-skilled, fast team member”—useful for delegating and synthesizing information, but not for totally offloading responsibility.
• Warns that while AI can provide structure and first drafts, the real work remains in judgment and integration.
• Discusses how these tools can support junior staff by providing answers and frameworks, giving them greater autonomy than before.

5. Project and Risk Management in the Public Sector

Timestamp: [25:03], [25:54]

• Oleniuk’s consultancy focuses on project risk management, driven by a belief that project “risk” is often treated as mere compliance—checking boxes rather than actively identifying what could truly block success.
• Urges shifting away from a “risk registry” mentality to direct conversations about specific blockers to objectives.
• Key Quote:

  “We use the term risk registry, but the risks aren't registering... If we can't draw a direct line between the risk and the outcome, then the risks are not meant for this project and they're not going to be meaningful in any way.”
  — Matthew Oleniuk [27:09]

6. Why Public Sector Projects Fail (and the Myth of Repeatability)

Timestamp: [29:19], [30:55]

• Russell references a Freakonomics episode: the only way to predict a public sector project’s success is to find a provenly similar predecessor.
• Oleniuk disagrees that similarity alone is the key. Instead, he identifies repeatable, embedded machinery and culture within public sector delivery as the bigger influence—and argues that it’s the individual leader who can break the cycle.
• Key Quote:

  “The problem is that the machinery, the infrastructure, is to blame for a lot of the issues. That’s why I really, really, really firmly believe in the individual. So I look to the project leader to fix things.”
  — Matthew Oleniuk [31:45]

• Advocates for project leaders to create mini-cultures within teams, focusing on their actual needs and risks even if it means supplementing standard procedures.

7. Practical Leadership and Team Development Advice

Timestamp: [04:54], [16:40], [23:43]

• Advice for current and aspiring leaders: avoid delivering “advice” as commandments. Instead, share experience to foster open-mindedness in others (especially children and direct reports).
• On career and team development: prepare team members for their next role (“coach yourself out of a job”) for overall organizational and individual growth.
• Experiment with asking, “How can I get the most out of you?” during onboarding and performance reviews to tailor roles to strengths and increase engagement.

Notable Quotes

• On Project Audit:

  “…if they have everything and they're doing everything right, what's the problem here? …auditors really need to look at, not to… find anything, but to try to get at the root cause of why things have not been delivered as intended.”
  — Matthew Oleniuk [07:00]

• On Governance:

  “So many people are looking that so many People are also just saying, well, somebody would have caught it if something went wrong. And that's… where the governance really kind of breaks down.”
  — Matthew Oleniuk [13:13]

• On Empowerment:

  “Most people who, if they're not getting [empowerment], they will come to you and tell you that and ask for help rather than just not do it or walk away from it… Most of the time, it's a very, very positive experience for me.”
  — Matthew Oleniuk [18:10]

• On AI in Auditing:

  “It's amazing… For gathering information, it's that synthesis that is still required.”
  — Matthew Oleniuk [21:00]

• On Project Leadership:

  “Ambitious targets are achievable for the public sector. I don't think that bringing risk into the conversation means reducing the ambition. I think knowing your risks… actually helps protect the ambition.”
  — Matthew Oleniuk [33:00]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00] The pitfalls of tool-reliant auditing in the public sector
• [06:29] Audit and leadership lessons learned: effectiveness, not existence
• [12:04] Governance structure: formal vs. real oversight
• [16:40] Empowering teams, delegation, and leadership mindset
• [20:49] Where AI can help or hinder in audit and audit leadership
• [25:03] What Matthew is passionate about: project risk conversations that matter
• [29:19] Why most public sector projects fail: the Freakonomics theory
• [30:55] Oleniuk’s rebuttal: systems vs. the role of individual leadership

Memorable and Actionable Takeaways

• Ask better questions: Instead of “What are your risks?”, ask “What could get in the way of this project’s success?”
• Don’t trust structure to deliver results: Systems and committees alone don’t work—real vigilance and individual accountability are required.
• Delegate with intent and support: Use AI as a powerful assistant, but ensure synthesis and decision-making remain human.
• Create mini-cultures of success: Project leaders must take ownership, define their own success metrics, and keep their team alert and engaged.
• Prepare your team for the next step: A leader's job is to make themselves redundant—when the team is independent, you’ve succeeded.

Special Offers

• Matthew Oleniuk’s new training series for project and risk leaders is available with a 50% discount for Audit Podcast listeners:
  Coupon code: audit50 (valid one week post-release)
  Visit subscriberstrategy.com for details.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating the complexities of public sector auditing, governance, or project management—and for leaders in any field who want to create real impact through empowerment and sharp analysis.