The Audit Podcast – Ep 270: How to Have Real Conversations as an Audit Leader with Jason Mefford

Host: Trent Russell
Guest: Jason Mefford (CAE, Audit Leader Advisor, Founder of Audit Leader Forum, C Risk Academy)
Date: January 13, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Trent Russell welcomes back Jason Mefford to explore what it means to have “real” (authentic and often tough) conversations as an internal audit leader. They discuss the barriers to authenticity, the necessity for self-awareness, and provide concrete examples of tough scenarios audit leaders face. The conversation is rich with actionable advice, personal stories, and memorable guidance for audit professionals working to become better leaders.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining “Real” Conversations and “Real” Audit Leaders

• “Real” means authentic, not superficial or performative.
  • Jason (04:33): “Another word that is similar to real is authentic… It means not having to have your guard up… it’s about the challenges that we’re experiencing… And you can have those real conversations only in a group that trusts each other… and that are confidential.”
• Difference between technical skills and leadership: Many CAEs are strong auditors but lack the “E” for executive—the leadership component.
  • Trent (07:56): “There’s a lot of good A’s, auditors that are CAEs, but they lack the E… you’re kind of missing the E part of that.”

The Importance of Trust and Community

• Confidential forums like the Audit Leader Forum help leaders realize their struggles are not unique.
  • “I have so many people that are dealing with things, and just to hear somebody else say, you know what? I’m experiencing the same issue. They’re like, oh, it’s not me…” (Jason, 10:37)

Recent Real-Life Example – Budget Cuts and Cost Avoidance (12:25–17:51)

• Case study: A CAE stood their ground against a CFO’s demand for budget cuts by highlighting risk avoidance/cost avoidance value.
  • Jason (12:25): “The CAE stood up and said, no, I’m not going to do it… and… she was like, look, here is the value of risk that we have helped avoid last year, okay? And that’s way more than what you’re asking me to cut… finally, the CFO said, damn, you’re right.”

Four Buckets Where Audit Leaders Need Real Conversations (19:19–25:15)

1. Audit Committee / Board
   • When interviewing or reporting, seek to understand their perspectives before prescribing solutions.
2. C-Suite
   • With new CEOs, avoid posturing—be authentic and avoid “first date” braggadocio.
3. Executives (Peers)
   • Have honest discussions about integrating functions, budget challenges, etc.
4. Staff
   • Balance empathy and expectations when addressing performance or personal issues.

• Advice for Each Bucket:
  • “Don’t try to show up or pretend that you’re somebody that you’re not… just be yourself because everybody else is taken.” (Jason, 19:19)

Practical Advice for Audit Leaders

Preparation vs. Presence (25:43–34:13)

• Too much time is wasted mentally rehearsing “tough conversations.”
  • “We expand a tremendous amount of energy when we’re always in the future… I’m not saying don’t plan, but I’m saying also, don’t be there for very long.” (Jason, 25:43)
• Show up as your genuine self; lifelong preparation is more valuable than scripted responses.
  • “How much time I prepared for this, Trent? Zero.” (Jason, 29:32)

Ego vs. Confidence (35:36–36:41)

• Memorable Quote:
  • “You know you’re getting into your ego if you’re trying to impress someone else, if you’re making it about yourself, if you’re trying to manipulate the other person to get them to do what you want them to do. That’s when you’re in ego. Right. But you can still be confident, you can still be authentic. You can still come from a place of respect and helping and everything else. That’s not ego.” (Jason, 35:36)
• Key lesson: Confidence is showing up authentically; ego is posturing for approval or control.

The Five Areas of Audit Leadership (37:20–45:37)

Jason introduces a self-assessment tool and outlines five critical areas:

1. Strategic Leadership:

   • “It’s actually about understanding strategy like your other executives understand strategy… if you don’t know who Michael Porter is, you don’t understand strategy.” (Jason, 39:37)

2. Stakeholder Relations:

   • Relationships with audit committees, executives, and peers.

3. Team Leadership and Culture:

   • Building the right culture that fits both the audit team and the organization.

4. Personal Effectiveness:

   • “Leadership is self leadership… Usually when people fix those personal effectiveness issues… the rest of the things tend to go away.” (Jason, 41:23)

5. Audit Function Performance:

   • More than just team output—it’s ongoing.

Reference:

• “98% of drivers say they are better than the average driver. And I’m pretty sure statistically that can’t happen.” (Trent, 42:34)

Closing Reflections & Final Quotes

• Continuous Learning:
  • “No one is perfect in the role they’re in right now, so you have to be continuously learning.” (Trent, 45:37)
• Personal Story:
  • Jason shares the personal toll of early leadership: “It led to depression, it led to some medication, it led to some other substance… I actually had a panic attack at work one day… But I don’t want people to get to that point or experience any of those things. Right? And so that’s one of the reasons why I started the Audit Leader Forum.” (Jason, 46:21)
• On Books and Training:
  • “People go read a book. Well, now I got it, right, I read a book. Well, that’s knowledge, but that’s not skills, that’s not competencies. Right? Those are things that we have to really work on… unless we actually show up and do it for real and do it in an authentic way and we keep practicing at it… then we’re lying to ourselves.” (Jason, 46:21)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “A real conversation... means not having to have your guard up... when most of the people in the room are actually having challenges, but they don’t have the courage to actually talk about it.” (Jason, 04:33)
• “Remove the ego or try to remove the ego, I think is one takeaway that everyone should have by now.” (Trent, 19:19)
• “If you try to show up or pretend that you’re somebody that you’re not, everybody knows, so you just be yourself because everybody else is taken, right? Oscar Wilde.” (Jason, 19:19)
• "You don’t have to prepare to be yourself. You’ve been preparing your whole life." (Jason, 31:15)
• “No one is perfect in the role that they’re in right now. So you have to be continuously learning.” (Trent, 45:37)
• “[Strategic leadership is] about understanding strategy like your other executives understand strategy… if you don’t know who Michael Porter is, you don’t understand strategy.” (Jason, 39:37)
• “It’s not just what you get done, it’s how you do it too. And ultimately, we all have to, you know, look ourselves in the mirror at the end of the day. So how you do it is important as well.” (Jason, 49:09)

Key Takeaways

• Authenticity and vulnerability are fundamental to effective audit leadership.
• Real conversations—especially about challenges—are only possible in trusted, confidential environments.
• Success as an audit leader is about more than technical skill; it's about relationships, self-awareness, and continuous improvement.
• Leaders must let go of ego while cultivating true confidence and a learning mindset.
• Continuous self-assessment across five areas can guide growth for audit professionals.

For more resources:

• Check out Jason Mefford’s Audit Leader Forum and C Risk Academy for community and development tools.
• Look for the soon-to-be-released self-assessment tool on the five areas of audit leadership.