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The Audit Podcast
Ep 275: Turning New Ideas Into Audit Results w/ Brian Kuenzi (Stealth AI Startup)
00:36:42
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- [00:00]
A
AI is going to replace all of this monotonous stuff that nobody wants to do and let people get back to learning about companies and learning how come how something operates.
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B
Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Audit podcast. I'm your host Trent Russell and today on the show we have Brian Kinsey. Formerly Brian was the director of stocks and transformation at Match Group and currently he's a founder at Stealth AI startup. But basically Brian's AI and tech enthusiastic with that audit background. He's helping do some things with audit and accounting relative to AI. So that's really why we wanted to have Brian on. And he was also just super interesting and has a maybe just hobbies and kind of background in general have made for Brian to be a. An interesting guest and one that we will certainly have back on. If you listen to the IA on AI podcast, Brian was a guest on there recently also, so check that out. And he emailed me this morning and said, hey, we should do this for the next AI episode. And I went, all right, yep, that's a good one. So we're going to talk about that. Probably this comes out on Tuesday, tomorrow I think if I have the timing right, don't have a calendar in front of me. So just trusting my brain is never the best idea. But I think that those dates are going to work out like that. Some of the things we talk about is how or rather why audit struggles to get resources. And it's about a 20 minute, I guess ish preamble about incentives and relative to the board and executives. So like how they're incentivized incentives they get. And then Brian just like quickly drops the hammer and brings it all together. So it's just like really interesting story in an area that I was not super familiar with. And so I think it's all that to say you might be listening for a little bit and be like, I have no idea where's this going? And then there it is. So it was, I thought it was super interesting and really enjoyed it. Brian also likes to say break hard to go fast and what that means for internal audit. Basically internal audit as an enabler as opposed to the police, which is a conversation we've had on the podcast before. But this is from Brian's perspective and again with that analogy, I think it makes it really concise and easy to kind of digest. And then of course with Brian on the show we talk about the future of internal audit relative to what else AI with that said, here we go.
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A
Sort of how we got connected was through A mutual friend. And my sort of introduction to the, I don't know what you call it, accounting social world was this. I was, I did a podcast with John on a 15 fund talking about passive investing and how that connects to audit socks, risk compliance, et cetera. And so I wrote, I did my thing where I kind of, you know, I'm going to do this, this interview, I'm do this podcast, I'm going to write all my notes. And that turned into this long sub stack thing. And then so I posted that and then it just sort of grew from there. But where this was born and why I was on this podcast talking about passes and why this matters is for the last, you know, since I started in this industry 13 years ago, now, started EY Assurance. How I got there is a whole different story, a whole different podcast. But I did not come from like an accounting. Like, that was not my thing. I was like finance first kid. I was the finance bro. I was like, I'm going to do investment banking. And then the Plinko chips sort of ended up with me going to Ernst and Young in Dallas and doing audit. Okay. But I always had this different perspective on stuff, and I still do. And for the longest time, I, I had this sort of inkling, you know, inkling of like something doesn't add up. Like, nothing makes sense to me about why, you know, you know, you think about what audit was, you know, external audit or any internal audit, and it's, you know, there's a, you know, definite value add there. There's, you know, you see the whole company, you're involved in all this stuff, but it seems like the way that people are, you know, auditors are viewed or, oh, my God, here comes the auditors. That, that sort of perception was really strange to me. And I remember sitting at celebrating seniors at ey, which is like this big boondoggle that they have for like your third year. And they brought in the, they made the mistake of bringing in a PCAOB board member to like, talk to like 300 of the newest seniors at Eye and doing a Q and A. And at one, at one point, if you can imagine, sitting in this big conference room, you know, ballroom, and they're doing a Q and A. And kid next to me, like, raises his hand, he goes, and this is, by the way, to give you a timeline, this is 2015 ballpark. So socks was like 2000 two decade later, I started in 2013. So this is, this is 12, 13 years later. And this is right around the time where everybody had sort of figured out what SOX was and how to, like, it was just ramping up. And we were under a lot of pressure to go to our clients and say, hey, we got to do all this control work. We got control testing. All the internal audit groups are now having to do all the SOX work. And so all of this, all, all the things that used to be quote value add are now being diverted to socks. Yeah. And this board member basically, basically the guy raises his hand and goes, hey, why are, you know, when are you going to tell our clients that we're having to ask all these things and do all these things and ask for more money? Shouldn't that be yalls responsibility? You're the ones that make all the rules. And the guy literally goes, we've, we've spoken to investors and we know it's important and it's really not our problem. And the whole room is like. And I, the, my thought was like, who are these investors you're speaking of? Because when I look at the investor, you know, as you do your, your, your stuff, you're like, okay, who are the top investors of your publicly traded companies? Yeah. And it's blackrock, Vanguard, State Street. And I was like, that seems strange. And I, I just always thought it was weird. Fast forward roughly a decade. You know, we have Covid. And Covid was strange. At this point, I'm now out of public accounting. I'm in, you know, working for a big public company doing sock stuff. Covid happens and I come across a guy named Michael Green. And Michael Green is famous for basically running Peter Thiel's money. He's known for the, or the short vix trade. He's a money manager. But he has been on this, this, this research path of passive investing since like 2015, 16. And he opened my eyes to what was really going on under the surface and the power that these quote unquote passive things have. And so let me define passive, Passive in the context of US equities and really global equities. But we'll just focus on the US for a moment. Passive would be the large ETF, you know, your S&P 500 index funds like that are owned by Vanguard, BlackRock, Stage Street. And passive basically runs on the world's simplest algorithm. If you give me cash buy, if you ask for cash sell, that's it. Vanguard does not care who the CEO of Apple is. They don't care who Tim Apple is. They don't care who, you know, what the earnings of Nvidia are. Okay? And these Passive, you know, these big three, there's really more to it. But these passive funds have essentially eaten up the market not only in the US but globally. We're really going to focus on the US because that's where everything kind of happens. And it's been growing for decades and decades. And what has that, that has created is inelastic supply and demand curve within global markets. So I'm a pause there for a moment to let everybody kind of catch up. Does that, what I'm saying sort of make sense or do I need to.
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B
No, we're following. Keep going.
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A
We're following. Okay, so when you look at. We'll just take the s and P500 so the market, if you will. And you could do this for the total market. Vanguard has the, you know, the largest ETF in the world is the Vanguard Total Market Fund, which is basically their way of buying all the, you know, all the equities, which is, I don't know what it is, 4,000 equities in the US but when you look at any single stock, literally the top holders will be Vanguard State street, blackrock, Price, some other ones. And that share, you know, used to be, I grew up thinking like, oh, you know, like Gordon Gekko and Wall street and like there's these, you know, quote unquote active hedge funds, et cetera. That composition has shifted over the last really 20 years. And so now on a daily basis the global fund flow of active versus passive is, you know, passive probably has roughly 65% of the, of the daily flow, if not more. And what that has caused or created is inelastic price discovery, meaning Vanguard's going to buy Apple and Nvidia and Google and these large mega cap funds because they get inflows from your 401k contributions, etc. And they don't care what the price is. And there's. And so what I'm trying to say is, is that the incentive, you know, if you're, if you're the CEO of insert publicly traded company, your, your incentives, you know, your incentives have obviously are shareholder value. Like shareholders are focused. It's always about the shareholder. And if you just happen to be one of these large companies, nobody really cares what you do because you're going to get that flow. Everything runs on flow. And that became very apparent to me as I'm watching. Covid was a weird for everybody for a lot of different reasons, but you kind of go wait, okay, so we just took a 20% haircut overnight and that gets into the derivatives market. But then this thing just super ball bounces. Meanwhile you're like, oh, a lot of these companies don't have like earnings growth. Like Apple hasn't grown in the traditional value investing framework for a long time, but yet it's one of the largest companies in the world. And so what Mike basically brought to my attention and highlighted for me was because when you work at a company, and by you I mean like the mass majority of us, you work for a company, whether it's private, public, whatever, you contribute to a 401k, your 401k generally because of. And I made sure I have the correct. Um, it's a. Okay, the. In 2006, the government changed the rules. They've done a lot of things that have changed the rules that have created this, this thing that this passive monster. They changed the rules that basically said if you are a company and you have a 401k which everybody does and you have to create. They basically created a rule that said you need to, you need to have a qualified qia, qualified automatic investment. I forget the deep part. They basically said you can't just have, you know, when Trent is a new hire, you sign up for your 401k, we're going to automatically put you into something. Used to be that wasn't a requirement. People would just like sign up for 401k, not do anything. It would just sit in cash. Yeah, well, they said on contraire, we're going to force you to have automatic investments for these people. And usually that's a target date fund. So you'll hear it like Vanguard target date. And it's usually based upon your age. So everybody's basically forced into doing these things knowingly or unknowingly, like you have to opt out. And so what ends up happening is, is every two weeks you contribute to your 401k unless you opted out, you're in a target date fund which is mostly just basically you aping into 95%, if not more of your, your biannual or bi weekly contributions to the S&P 500 or the QQQ or whatever that Vanguard has. And so once I once that kind of dawned on me because I go, you know, I went, I hearkened back to this PCOB board member and I'm like, who are these investors you're talking to? And I go, oh, they're Vanguard. It's, that's who it is. That's, it's, that's who they're talking to. Like there, there is no. I mean there Are and we'll get to this in a second. There are still active managers. Matter of fact, Elliot Management, one of the largest quote unquote active managers in the world. I forget I have his name here. One of their MDs I was listening to. You know, I stumbled upon this because I usually stumble upon a lot of things. But I was watching an interview with him and he was talking about how for them this passive. This has made it very difficult for active investors to make changes because they think about if you're going to go do have a proxy vote and let's say 40% of the active float is owned by Vanguard, State street and blackrock. If you're an active manager, why even bother trying to change board seats? Because you can't get the votes mathematically. So what do you do? You create a circus. Elliot basically created a circus for when they took over, did an active campaign against Southwest Airlines, which is partially why we, you know, Southwest Airlines now has the different seating and the different prices or whatever. But they literally went out and made like a podcast this big to do but they can't get the votes like. And it's, and he even talks about it. It's so difficult for, for them now. And it's a big problem. Jesse Cohen, he's managing director Elliot and you know, like he's talking. I wrote about this in my can you take me higher post. There is no. Because most of the publicly traded equities and this is, it's not just the s and P500. It's like all you can do the Russell do the Russell 2000. It's all of them. They don't have anybody that there's no invest like the shareholder doesn't care. The majority of the quote shareholders are if you give me cash, I'm going to buy. If you need cash, I'm going to sell. And they don't really care about the earnings. They don't care about the corporate governance care about any of this stuff. And so if you're a CEO, this goes back to the incentives. This is where I'm going to get with the incentives pulling in this full circle. If you're a CEO and your board comes to you and says, hey, our stock price is not performing well. You haven't done this, that or the other thing we need to generate growth. Because the stock price has always been the, the response, you know, the, the scoreboard, if you will, for companies right or wrong, whether you want to agree or not, right or wrong. And if you're, you know, if you're a CEO and you're like, okay, well, my, not only because of socks now my. Most of my equity, you know, most of my compensation is tied to my stock price now I got the board up, me up, whatever, telling me I need to, you know, do growth, et cetera. I'm not really interested in, in slowing down this train. Right. I have this great saying that I'll use. It's break hard to go fast. And I'll tell you what that means. But like, they're not thinking I need to really, like put on the brakes because I need to go as fast as I can because I got to generate growth. I gotta, I gotta get the stock price goose. I gotta go. And it just creates poor incentives on the one hand, and then on the other hand, because the flows are all that matters. You see these weird things. Like SMCI is a great example that I use a lot where SMCI gets delisted. I want to say it was 20, I think it's pre Covid the first time they get delisted
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B
there.
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A
You can look it up. I'm not going to drag them through the mud. They get listed again on the NASDAQ. Like 20. I think it was 20, 23. They did the same thing. Literally the same thing. They got delisted for stock drops 40%. Well, just given a moment. I don't know if you recall, they were part of that AI bubble early on. I think they lost 40% or something. EY dropped them. Like literally the entire big four dropped them because they just can't get past like making up numbers. But the stock recovered, no big deal, because guess what, they're part of the s and P500 now. And so they get that flow, that constant flow, and nobody cares about what, what any of the corporate governance is.
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B
So two follow up questions.
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A
Yep.
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B
One, this is the audit podcast. I know we've talked about this, so I know you're going to bring it around. Relate this to the audit audience. Two, if you watch the show industry, does it make sense to you? Do you follow that show? Do you know what I'm talking about?
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A
Industry? Okay.
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B
It is investment bankers in London. And that is. There's so much technical jargon I, I have to watch. Well, I watch everything with subtitles, but
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A
even that show, especially, oh, Kit Harrington's in it. Johnny. Oh, I'm definitely gonna add that to the watch list.
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B
He doesn't start from the beginning, but I think he comes on season two or three or something like that.
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A
I don't know.
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B
We're not there yet, but anyway, you might enjoy it might be one of those things where you look at it, you go, this is like insanely ridiculous. The same way like when I see my mom was watching NCIS one time and they had this woman like hacking on a computer and she was like,
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A
oh, I need more help, I can't get in.
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B
And so she like brought in another person to type with her on the keyboard. And I was like, this is the d. Dumbest thing I think I've ever seen. So it might even be one of those where you're like, yeah, that's not even close. But anyway.
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A
Well, it's hard to keep up with
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B
even the relationships on that show.
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A
Like even with subtitles. I'm like, who is with who?
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B
And I don't know. So anyway, anyway, that was just a goofy ass way to say no.
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A
We're gonna, we're gonna add that to the. Me and, me and my fiance, which is why I live in Durham, North Carolina now, down Dallas. We are big TV shows. We just finished Stranger Things. I was late to that party. And now, um, we're actually watching the Sopranos. I'm watching it again, but okay, we'll have to add that to the watch list. But you know, I like, I, I, I sort of go in my. Who is, who is Brian? Like when I graduated I was going to do investment banking. That was my goal. I, if you're 20 something years old, what do you. And you're a finance kid. Well, of course you want to be an investment bank too. And you know, as the story goes, that I got to the 71st floor of the Wells Fargo building in Houston, Texas and decided that was not the mountaintop that I wanted to climb. So we didn't, we, you know, for, in revisionist history for poor reasons, we decided not to pursue that. But whatever.
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B
Okay, so TV shows aside, TV shows bring this home, what we're talking about, to audience, relative to how it impacts audience.
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A
Yeah. So you know, when I talk to tv, Let me say it a different
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B
way, even, maybe even more blunt, like why should we care?
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A
In summary, passive has created inelastic financial markets and it has shifted the incentives of the executives, both the board and the C suite, because I think they have kind of caught on to what's going on. And so what ends up happening is, is you, if you're an internal audit at a big public company, and this could even apply to private companies, but at a big public company too, and you go in for your annual forecast discussion with finance and you Say, hey, I need to add a head. I need to add two heads for internal audit or risk or whatever. And they go, okay, how are you going to grow the top line for us if we add? Because that's a cost. That's not going to grow our earnings for the stock price, for the shareholders. And you go, well, yeah, but I can add value in XYZ ways. And they go, well, do more with less. That line that you've heard forever, that I've heard forever. Do more with less. So where this kind of all came from was I had this discussion last week, another verbatim same discussion I always have. This has been going on for, like I said, over a decade, where my friends or my colleagues or whatever, they go, I don't understand why nobody seems to care. Like you would think internal audit or external or an auditor in general is in the perfect position to add value to a company. They see the whole burrito. They, they're in. You know, you're involved in all of the, the major, you know, discussions like, we buy an acquisition, we got to go do our due diligence, we got to figure out, you know, when you buy, you know, when you acquire a company, you have to integrate them and get all the processes, et cetera. And back to my break hard to go fast. To use an analogy of, of racing, the, the, the F1 drivers, they don't go all gas, no brakes like Coach Sark, they break really hard to go really fast. Like the best drivers in the world, the Lewis Hamilton's, the Verstappen's, the ones that win are the ones that know how to brake well. And quick side note story, the brake or go fast quote came from a professional driver. Like, I'm literally sitting doing one of these driving experiences, and he's like, you're not braking hard enough. And I go, what do you mean? I'm not breaking hard enough? And he's like, you gotta break hard to go fast. And what he meant by that was, is as you're coming down a straightaway, you're coming to a sharp turn. It's not that you break slowly into the turn to then accelerate out. It's that you gun it and go and then you break really hard. These supercars have really good brakes so that you can then transition out and accelerate out of the turn. And that was a. That's a great line. But then I heard another asset manager talk about this in the volatility space. It's literally the same concept. It's risk management. If you, if you want to go all gas, no brakes, in a race car or in a company or an, you know, doing investments, you're eventually going to run off the track. And the way I view it, in the value add that audit has or should have, or I. I wish would have, is providing that assurance that those. The having good breaks so that you can make those business decisions, those acquisitions, those, you know, and, and. And have confidence that, okay, I'm going to take this really massive risk because I've. I've vetted it, I have controls or I have good breaks to know that if this thing goes bad, I'm not going to blow everything up. And I just really think that because of sox, because of the perceptions of whatever, because of all these things. And to be fair, this passive thing that we're talking about, that I'm talking about, audit is collateral damage to this. I think this is a. I know this is a very big. There's a lot going on here, and audit is a collateral piece of this. But the message I tell the people that I talk to and, you know, I tell my friends, I tell the people at Big four who are younger, who are coming up as I go, you. You need to focus on not just doing all the checklists and not just going through the motions, like, really learn about what's going on, because you can be a value add. Like, I would go and talk to CAO's and CAES right now and say, look and boards. And I'd say, look, if you really want to grow top line and you're out of product ideas, there are. There are definite ways to do this, but you gotta understand what's going on underneath the surface. And there is no better person group to help you do that than Internal Audit or Risk manager or whatever. And so that's really what I'm trying to. I'm basically saying, all right, the feeling you have, Mr. Mrs. Audit Person, internal, external, whatever risk this feeling you have of. I. It's not. I don't. I. We. We're very. I don't want to call it, like, it's apathy. It's like, I just don't understand why nobody cares. It's like, well, because there's a lot of stuff going on here that is out of your control. And so to your question is like, okay, why do I care? It's like, well, and. Or why do I care? What can I do about it? You should care because you should understand the game you're playing. You should understand the. This is what's going on. So when you go into that, like the CAE goes in the meeting with the CFO and says I need heads. And you get that response, you go, okay, I understand what you're saying, but like, let's think about holistically. You need to grow top line your product. That we've been trying. You've had four different failures. There's other ways, right? That's number one. Number two is when you. I feel really bad because I, I really do think that there is value add in this space. And I, I read the articles in Wall Street Journal about there's not enough, we don't, it's an accounting shortage, none of the kids want to do it, etc. Etc. And I think this is really a message for, for the older people in the room. It's like think about the future. Think about in 10 years when you want to hire a controller or you want to hire a director of, you know, internal audit or whatever. And all the people that are coming up now, we're talking about AI, who are you going to hire? How's that going to work? Think about the downstream effects of what's going on and just be cognizant of that. So that's. Why do I care? I think this is a really good thing to understand for the health of audit accounting, et cetera. And so the next question is, okay, well how do we fix this? What can we do? The passive boat is sale, like the, the, the academics. The good thing is is that like Mike has been on this for over a decade. The, the Cohen's of the world, not Ryan Cohen of Gamestop, but Eric Cohen of the activist investors are aware of this. The hedge, the investment bank, everybody knows what's going on. This, this whole passive thing I'm talking about is not new, unfortunately. I, I would suggest that maybe it exists for a reason and I'll leave it at that. I'm not going to get too conspiracy on you, but there is no, like, we've already passed the Rubicon. There is no turning back. So it's just, you got to understand what's going on and be aware of it and really be. When you go have those conversations with the leadership, say, look, I understand the pressures you're under, I understand what's going on here. Help me help you. Like, let's be value, like how can we be value add? Like, here's what I can provide, here's what my team can provide, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, so I think that's the summary.
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B
Two takeaways I have that are pretty common on the show. One being the organization needs to know the value that internal audit brings because a lot of times they don't. And the other one is, comes back to thing we've heard over and over again. It's like, hey, internal audit just know the business really well, probably going to be okay.
- [29:35]
A
And it's hard, you know, I always like to play devil's advocate. It is really hard to be an internal auditor at a public company that wants you to be a socks person as a, as a socks person myself because you're just inundate. Like I feel so bad for not only the big four seniors and staff coming up doing like I used to. I tell people all the time you're, you need to get on private jobs because that's how you learn business. That's how you learn how the, the, the burrito is made. I use food analogies. And it's, I feel really bad for internal audit teams at a lot of public companies because they are just, they, it's a SOX is an audit problem, let them deal with it. And then they become all they're doing is SOX testing and all they're doing is checklists and all they're doing is trying to check off what other PCW comes up with this, you know, this year. And this is another thing to point out too, you know, for the last, you know, we're in 26 right now. So from, you know, like it or not, I, this isn't a political statement whenever you have political changes. The PCAOB is a government entity, just is. And so depending on which know it's like the Game of Thrones, like which, which king sits in the castle, you're going to have vastly different regulatory emphasis. Right. When I can, I can, I can say without a single hesitation that In November of 24, everything changed from the last four years and it was stark. The pendulum swung extremely hard. And I don't know what's going to happen in, in, you know, the next what, in three years. But what I can say is, is that unfortunately I don't think it's gonna, I think the pendulum is going to swing a lot more. And so like for the internal audit folks and listening to this because this is the internal audit podcast, I would, I mean I, I have talked to some really forward thinking internal audit groups at certain companies. Like there are certain companies that I know of for sure whose internal audit groups are value add hands down doing it right. And I unfortunately don't think that's the norm. And I Think the more we talk about this and the more we make it, you know, like, hey, by the way, there's probably. It's not just that audit sucks and they're the internal police. Like, that doesn't have to be the case. Matter of fact, I think that that perception is something that we should try to eliminate. And so, like, I, you know, I was talking to you about your episode with, with the Snowflake folks, and I think what they're doing is phenomenal. I mean, so, you know, to, to segue into AI. I mean, we are in a period of, I mean, I'm, you know, like I said, I'm a huge, huge proponent of AI. Claude. User. I just think that ever since the Internet, nothing's changed in the accounting space for 20 years, 20 plus years. You get, you get the new SaaS products, you get new stuff, but like, it's all really the same. And this, you know, is the opportunity that we've all been waiting for for the last two decades. And it's going to accelerate faster than anybody can imagine. There's definitely going to be hiccups along the way. The adoption rate, you know, people. I think it's McKinsey or somebody, just had a study where it's like of all of the things that have been implemented at companies over the last year, 90% of them failed. It's like, yeah, of course they did because it's new and this stuff changes so fast. I just wrote about it where I like January 25th, I watched. Speaking of browser, you know, agents, I watched a. She sold her company. Her. Her husband's the head of product at OpenAI, but her company at the time basically ran off of a browser called. It was OpenAI's operator, but it's just now been converted. And they all it really did was it parsed the Internet for product reviews and basically made JIRA tickets and all these things. It was incredible. But I watch that and I go, oh, when I create a document for my team over in India, I create a screenshot and I create instructions and they have to go in and download and get all these things. And I go, oh, seems like that's no longer necessary anymore. We can prompt AI to do that, especially if it can literally take your cursor and move it around, do its things. So I just think for internal audit, the future is bright. But we have like, I think the big takeaway from this for everybody. And I'll be the, I'll be at the head of this, this parade is you gotta have good Breaks like, I think that's like, break hard to go fast. If you're, if you're a company, private or public, and you wanna, and you wanna grow top line and you wanna go, you know, increase your, your base, whatever, you gotta have good breaks. You can go all gas, no brakes, and you'll get where you want to go. But eventually you're going to run into a wall. Unfortunately, I don't know when that happens. Otherwise I'd be able to tell you more specifically. But I think investing in good brakes, investing in the risk component. I'm using risk as a broad journal term and understanding risk and having those people that know the business, that get them off of the checklist, AI is going to replace all of this monotonous stuff that nobody wants to do and let people get back to learning about companies and learning how comp. How something operates. Like, my first client at Erst Young, I didn't even know existed. And they were the largest manufacturer of all these things that I use every day. And I got to go to these plants, I got to do inventory. It was great. I was like, oh my God, this is how America works. America doesn't run in the cloud. People make things and it's great. And you get to learn all these things. But now the people that come up now are just like, okay, what's my checklist? And what do I do? And how do I check this control and 20 samples. Oh, cool. And that's like, could be so much more. And so, yeah, I think it's. The future is bright.
- [36:04]
C
Hey everyone, thank you very much for listening to this episode of the Audit Podcast. Whatever platform you're listening on right now, I'm sure there's a subscribe button somewhere, so please hit the subscribe button there. If you're listening through itunes or Spotify, feel free to go give us that five star rating. It only took me about 16 seconds to give myself a five star review and it really helps to get future guests to come on the show, so we'd really appreciate that. Lastly, be sure to check out the show notes and follow us on all our social media channels, on Instagram, on LinkedIn and on TikTok. Also, if interested, please sign up for our weekly newsletter from the Audit Podcast. Thank you all.
- [36:38]
B
Have a great one.