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- [00:01]
A
Welcome back to the Authentic Society. I'm Jamie.
- [00:03]
B
I'm Maddie.
- [00:04]
A
We won't do that every time.
- [00:06]
B
We might do it every time.
- [00:09]
A
So on today's episode, we're just gonna dive deep because we've got a lot to say about this topic, and I feel like we should just jump right in.
- [00:18]
B
There's a lot for a second episode.
- [00:20]
A
Yeah, this is a big one.
- [00:22]
B
It was on our list of stuff we wanted to discuss, though.
- [00:25]
A
We have a lot of long list. Please let us know in the comments a topic that you might want us discuss and we might discuss it, but.
- [00:34]
B
We won't be doing reactions to Sister Wives psa.
- [00:38]
A
You heard it here, folks.
- [00:40]
B
But all right.
- [00:41]
A
That doesn't mean you're not going to talk about your life and things that have happened.
- [00:45]
B
Yeah, I just don't want to do a play by play of what happened.
- [00:47]
A
Yeah. Who wants to watch all that back? But today we're going to be talking about removing yourself from toxic relationships and sexual setting boundaries. This is a good one.
- [00:59]
B
This is a good one. I think. First off, what is a boundary?
- [01:03]
A
Yeah, we. We've talked a lot about this.
- [01:06]
B
Yeah, we did. And we also kind of like talked about how everybody uses therapy lingo in modern day.
- [01:12]
A
Yeah. Because we discussed the differences between therapy and life coaches.
- [01:17]
B
Yes.
- [01:18]
A
And. And the difference which. That will be a whole nother episode. But a boundary, I think, is different from for everybody. But I did pull it off the Internet, like, what technically the term is. And it's a line that marks the limits and it's a dividing line.
- [01:37]
B
Great.
- [01:38]
A
So for people, obviously, we have now used the word boundaries a lot, and they are very different for every person. But you and I have discussed that some people take boundaries of things they just don't like.
- [01:55]
B
So people, like, put boundaries as, like, trying to control other people instead of. So I could be like, Jamie, you. Like, I'm making it about you and what I don't want you to do instead of, like, me. So if you're being horrible to me or something like that, I won't be. Or you're yelling at me, you're screaming at me. It's like, I won't be talked to that way. Like, I will leave if you talk to me. So you make it about a boundary is about you. And I feel like so often now people try and make it about other people and controlling other people.
- [02:31]
A
Yeah, I agree. Because I've seen many times where somebody says, well, if you. If you do that, then again, I'm not. I'm not going to accept it. And I. I think while we should have boundaries for ourself, I also think there's a very fine line that you either accept people for who they are or you don't, and you remove yourself from that relationship.
- [02:57]
B
Right. I think that boundaries, there's. Okay, there's stuff that annoys you about everybody. Right. And I feel like now, like, especially with TikTok and everybody's now a therapist, a couch therapist. Um, it's like, well, that bothers me that you do that. So, like, don't do that anymore. It's like, that's not a boundary. A boundary is, this is how I will be treated by everybody. And if you talk to me that way, I will leave. If you manipulate me, gaslight me, or you lie to me, I will not tolerate that. Right. Instead of changing personalities, I mean, maybe that is somebody's personality.
- [03:39]
A
Right. Well, and I think for me, especially in my. As I get older, I try to align myself with people that have the same morals as me or, I know, give me a sense of peace. And if somebody is in my life and I feel that they're disrupting my peace and stuff, the boundary really is not. I need you to change for you to stay in my life.
- [04:05]
B
Right.
- [04:05]
A
The boundary is maybe you shouldn't be in my life this much or at all.
- [04:11]
B
Yes. Okay. So letting people in too much or have too much control. Access or access. I think that that goes along with friendships as well as family members, especially in adulthood. Because in a boundary for me is I don't want to be involved in your. Your relationship problems, especially when you're not taking advice. Yes, Right.
- [04:38]
A
Right. Well, and again, I think, you know, when you become an adult, and from what I've noticed is that as a child, for me, you have so little control over the boundaries you have in your life. And so really, as you get older and realizing what causes you chaos in your life and not good chaos, like bad anxiety, ridding chaos, if somebody is causing that in your life, then boundaries definitely need to be set.
- [05:12]
B
So do you at that point when. So when you're in the relationship and you start to realize that there is chaos and there's a pattern, do you cut them off or do you establish boundaries?
- [05:24]
A
I think it depends on the person because I don't think some people necessarily are willing to respect your boundaries. And if somebody is not willing to respect a boundary you set for your life, then I don't think they necessarily deserve to be in it. So that's where it comes to cut Off.
- [05:45]
B
Yeah. I think there's also history at play, like, for family members. Like, I have no contact with some of my family, and it's because of stuff that has happened. But also I realized I could when we were adults and talking. So, like, for instance, my dad would get very angry when I would. I'm a straight shooter. You ask me a question, I'm going to tell you what I think. And he would get very angry when I'd be like, I don't know why you're surprised here. And I'm. And so that was one of the reasons that I went no contact was because it was like he didn't like a mirror being held or. In my opinion, it was like there was a lot of anger. And he's like, that's not true. And I'm like, it is true. I know this firsthand, so. And there's other people that I. That were the same. It was like when I would express my. They'd ask for my opinion, and then I would express my opinion and they'd get angry. It's like, right, well.
- [06:52]
A
And I've had that in my life, too, especially with my dad. We went no contact for two and a half years because I felt like that was me setting a boundary.
- [07:03]
B
You have to take a break.
- [07:04]
A
Yeah.
- [07:05]
B
Yeah.
- [07:05]
A
If you do not understand your actions affect me in my life, then you don't have to be in it.
- [07:14]
B
Yeah.
- [07:14]
A
If you want to be in my life, these are the boundaries that need to happen.
- [07:20]
B
Because I also feel like there's a point where you need to figure out what your boundaries are. And there's so much noise from these family members or these friends that it's like, I need a break to figure out who I am without all this that comes with it.
- [07:42]
A
Yeah. I mean, for sure. Because, I mean, I know. And it's not just like with my dad. There's been so many other relationships, friendships past, like, you know, romantic relationships where something is severely toxic, where it's affecting who you are.
- [08:02]
B
How do you realize it's a toxic relationship?
- [08:05]
A
Gosh, I wish I had. I could look at younger me and be like, pinpoint it. I think now, for me, anybody that doesn't make me feel safe, whether that's safe in my emotions, safe in my feelings, safe to express and be who I really am.
- [08:25]
B
Okay, so what is safe to you?
- [08:28]
A
Well, for. I think that comes with feeling the emotions. Like, if I can't look at somebody that I'm close with and say in a very calm and nice way, this is why this is how you've made me feel. Without them getting angry at me or reacting hateful or hurtful or manipulating me or cutting me off, then that is not safe for me. I'm the type of person that it's really hard for me to express my emotions. So if I come to you and I go, hey, this instant made me feel this way and I need to talk about it in a calm way, and they react civilization.
- [09:05]
B
Like you're remaining civil, and it's like you can have dialogue and discourse and it's civil and they're not getting angry or vitriol.
- [09:16]
A
And what about you? How do you know when something's toxic?
- [09:21]
B
I'm still learning. I think I'm quick to be like, that's a red flag. But I think it's because of. If I see personality traits of people that I have. So my. Because of the way that I grew up, I feel like my parents exposed us to a lot of people that we shouldn't have been exposed to. And not that there was anything twisted going on, but there. They were just not good people. They were exploitive to my parents as well as the family. I. And then there's also the whole dynamic of my parents. So it's like if I start to see, like, personality traits that were in either a. Those people bad relationships in high school or like some family members that I have had to distance myself from, I'm like, we're going to take a break. We're going to just slowly.
- [10:22]
A
And I think that's okay. Because, you know, I was talking with somebody the other night that I think we struggle as children to use our adult voice when we finally become an adult to set boundaries with people in our family. But I didn't have the right to do that for so long when I was young and I grew up in such a fight or flight mode. I don't want to live that way anymore. So the boundaries of my peace.
- [10:56]
B
Like, you had to hug somebody. That was a creepy.
- [10:59]
A
Yeah. Or, you know, you had to sit there and you know, when you said, I don't. I feel this way and get yelled at or talked down to or punished for your feelings. I don't.
- [11:14]
B
And as an adult, they try and punish you.
- [11:17]
A
Yeah.
- [11:17]
B
Like. And it's. It's like I'm. I remember I had a conversation with Mary and she. One of my parents, and she was like, don't worry, you're not in trouble. And I was like, I am an adult. A b. I'm married. See, I have children. I don't get in trouble. What are you going to. What are you going to do? Just make me and put me in my room?
- [11:41]
A
Yeah. And it's getting out of that mindset that we're not. That those little girls anymore that don't have a voice.
- [11:48]
B
Well, there's like, the elephant. Have you ever heard of that? When they have a baby elephant, they beat the baby elephant. This circus used to do this. I don't know if they do it now, so somebody's going to fact check me. But they used to beat the baby elephant so that when it was big and large and big enough to hurt somebody, it was scared. Isn't that so sad? But you see that a lot in toxic families, in toxic relationships. It's like, well, it's the way that it happens. Um, and I also think that when you become an adult and you start telling people about your experience, like I tell you, or I'll tell Caleb, like, poor Caleb, when he came into the family, I'd tell him stories and he'd be like, that's not normal.
- [12:33]
A
Right.
- [12:34]
B
And I think that's when I first started to be like, wait a second. This dynamic isn't so normal.
- [12:41]
A
Well, and I think also going back to the therapy thing on Tick Tock, I think people are realizing more and more that our childhood and the relationships we've had in our childhood shape us, who we are as adults and the relationships we carry in our adulthood. And at some point, if you don't set boundaries in your adulthood, and whether it's family, friendship you've had forever or a toxic, you know, romantic relationship, if you do not set those boundaries, and I feel like we're using boundaries so much, but if you don't, if you're.
- [13:22]
B
Not around, I don't feel like enough people have boundaries.
- [13:24]
A
No. I didn't realize how hard it was for people.
- [13:27]
B
Do you. Do you think that you have a better ability at setting boundaries now that you have learned what you'll tolerate being treated as, or do you think you still struggle?
- [13:37]
A
I definitely think I have great boundaries now because when I was even in my early adulthood and late teens, I used to get angry when somebody would disrespect me or a boundary or make me feel like I was stupid or crazy or manipulate me, I don't get angry anymore. I said, it's like, you just won't be in my life. You won't. And that might be harsh, but you just won't. It's so simple to me now, because I have good people in my life. That respect me as a person. They make me feel at peace. They make me feel safe in my feelings to share them. Why would you accept anything less?
- [14:21]
B
So a lot of things that I hear about when people get worried to set boundaries, and even I still struggle with this with some friends and stuff. How do you get over the fear of conflict?
- [14:34]
A
Gosh. I know. I didn't. I also didn't realize that this is a really. People really are afraid to have that conflict.
- [14:44]
B
I don't think that it's like. I think it's weird confrontation. So I think it's hard. Okay. So when you have a friend that you've become close, like, or you're getting to know and you've. You enjoy, and then they say something like, ooh, I don't like that. But then how do you bring that up to them without getting confrontational? I mean, usually I'll just say it, but there are some friends that I'm like, they're gonna take offense to this. And I don't know how to say it without them taking offense to it.
- [15:17]
A
I have realized for me, as my per. Like, who I am as a person, that I can. People can either they love me or they don't. And I. That might be a very toxic way of being, but for me, you.
- [15:32]
B
You just know who you are.
- [15:33]
A
I do.
- [15:34]
B
And that's okay.
- [15:35]
A
And so if I feel like I'm in a friendship where I can't be honest, then that's probably not the friendship I need to be in anyway.
- [15:43]
B
It's fair.
- [15:44]
A
Like, if I'm afraid that I'm always going to hurt their feelings by addressing something that bothered me or.
- [15:50]
B
How do you do it with family?
- [15:53]
A
I think family is always a little tougher for people because you have that. Their family.
- [16:02]
B
Well, and I think that there's this really skewed, like. Well, it's blood. Like, blood is thicker than water. I'm like, dude, some people just don't deserve to be in your life.
- [16:12]
A
Yeah.
- [16:13]
B
And. Or like, one. Like, I always get people messages from people who are like, you should just forgive your dad and, you know, respect him. And I'm like, I don't think you know what you're talking about, because your experience with your dad could be very different than my experience with my dad. And I'm not. You're telling me to just. And my. He doesn't have any respect for boundaries. And so it's like, you have to play by his rules. And I just don't care to do that.
- [16:46]
A
Do you struggle with confrontation no.
- [16:50]
B
Well, like I said, depends on who it is. Sometimes I struggle with my mom because my mom is the nicest person ever, and she struggles with it. So when I'm trying to bring something up to her, like, hey, this bothered me that you did this. I'm trying to not also hurt her feelings, but also not make her be, like, feel, I mean, and feel bad too. Like, I want her to be like, oh, I'm sorry. Like, I, that's, I struggle with that.
- [17:18]
A
With my mom too. I think, because you struggle with that confrontation or conflict with people, you know.
- [17:26]
B
Deep down aren't trying to do it.
- [17:29]
A
Yeah.
- [17:29]
B
Just like where you heard. It's like I said earlier with friends, like, when you are getting to know a friend or you have a really good friend, and they just like, I don't know, people change and evolve, and as they're changing and evolving, and I think that we always are changing and evolving. So it's like when you have a friend who you've been like, relatively good friends with, I mean, not because if it was like a really close friend, I. You be like, knock that off. But when it's like, kind of a close friend, how do you express that without getting confrontational or aggressive or mean or, like, hurting their feelings?
- [18:07]
A
Yeah, I know it's tough. And I know I have many people that struggle with confrontation. For me, I don't know. I, I, I do feel like I am the queen of setting boundaries and friendships, because I will. And this is not, this is not good of me. I will go somebody in a heartbeat.
- [18:31]
B
You'll ghost them? Oh, yeah.
- [18:32]
A
I'll just be done.
- [18:33]
B
You don't even, like, give them second chances or, like, distance yourself.
- [18:37]
A
I feel like I don't do it. I'm the type of person, I don't say anything and I don't say anything. And I give you chance after chance.
- [18:43]
B
But do you say something to them?
- [18:46]
A
Yeah, I usually.
- [18:47]
B
So that's different because, like, I usually.
- [18:49]
A
Just like, I'm done.
- [18:50]
B
It's like, this, is this irks me or like there's like this thing that, you know, I don't know is there is.
- [18:59]
A
Do you? I guess it's because. And again, this is looking at it from people that are my, like, better reversed. Like, my friends probably feel like sometimes I say things that are mean.
- [19:14]
B
Yeah.
- [19:15]
A
And I don't mean it me.
- [19:17]
B
So, so have you ever been told? So like my mom, one time I was explaining something to her, and she's like, you're very blunt. And I was like, is that A good thing. And she's like, I think so, but sometimes you can be a little rude. And I was like, okay, noted. I'll work on that. Because. And Caleb appreciates it because Caleb's like, I never have to guess. Caleb's who I talk to the most. So he's like, I never have to guess. Like if you're upset and what you're upset about and like Hunter is the same way. Like, those are probably the people I talk to the most. And my mom's like, I just. Sometimes you say stuff and you're like, it's like, oh, okay.
- [19:59]
A
But would you. Cat. What? Did you categorize Caleb and Hunter as sensitive people?
- [20:04]
B
Oh, no.
- [20:05]
A
Would you categorize your mom as more sensitive?
- [20:10]
B
I think it depends. So what about your mom?
- [20:14]
A
Yeah, my mom's way more sensitive than Dylan, obviously.
- [20:17]
B
Oh yeah, way more sensitive.
- [20:19]
A
So I mean you're talking than me.
- [20:21]
B
I'm like, I don't know.
- [20:23]
A
Not putting on gender, but I'm just saying that so maybe.
- [20:27]
B
Okay. So like do you have a friend who is more sensitive?
- [20:30]
A
Absolutely.
- [20:30]
B
And another friend. All of them. Are you the friend that they called?
- [20:34]
A
Like you're a Jamie. And I'm like, I know I've not been. I just. People have just started flipping the word where they're like, you're blunt. I mean it used. I used to get. If you ever call me a. That phases mean none. And not because I, I'm a mean hearted person. You know me, I'm. I'm not at all. I would.
- [20:55]
B
You're just blunt.
- [20:57]
A
I'm just blunt. I'm very open about if something bothers me or hurts my feelings. I do have hard time with some family members and they're not always mine and so I won't speak too much of this, but I do think it is hard because when you do get married that's come that brings a whole nother family.
- [21:23]
B
Say like you don't marry your family and yes, you marry your in laws. Like 100%. In my experience, even with going no contact with some of my family and even with Caleb's experience or anybody we know. Like I know everybody's like, no matter what you marry your in laws. Like I have friends who have dysfunctional extended family and they still get. They're like, yeah, we're in no contact with them. But it still brings the drama, you know.
- [21:55]
A
And I will say sometimes when you set a boundary, not everyone has to know you're setting one.
- [22:02]
B
Yeah.
- [22:03]
A
And that's okay too silent. Boundaries work and Sometimes you can just internalize and go, I'm not going to go over there as much. I'm not going to say this when I'm around. I'm going to not let it get to me. Just like, social media and boundaries. I'm not.
- [22:21]
B
But I do think you have to, like, if it comes up, it's like, well, why are you. Are you angry with me? It's like, you should be.
- [22:28]
A
If anybody ever asked me, I have no problem.
- [22:30]
B
Okay.
- [22:31]
A
Sometimes I have the problem starting the conversation, but if anybody ever looks at me, like, dead in the face and go, jamie, are you upset? Why? I have no problem.
- [22:39]
B
So I have a friend who was explaining that she was frustrated with her neighbor, and she was telling me all about how she was frustrated with her neighbor, and it was like that he was parking in her. Her yard or something. I was like, well, did you tell him not to? And she's like, no. I was like, well, how does he know you're frustrated? Or he. That you didn't like it? Well, I stopped waving at him. And I'm like, that doesn't work. You have to go over and say, like, hey, could you not park in front of my yard? That's where I park. Or something like that, you know?
- [23:09]
A
Right, right. No, I mean communicate. We're gonna have to do a whole podcast on, like, good communications styles, because.
- [23:17]
B
Isn'T that your degree, Communication?
- [23:19]
A
Yes.
- [23:19]
B
Because what is a communications degree? Just side note.
- [23:22]
A
So. Laughing. So my concentration, because communication, at least where I ecu where I went to school, there was four different concentrations. One's pr.
- [23:33]
B
Right.
- [23:33]
A
One's journalism.
- [23:35]
B
Right.
- [23:37]
A
I. I think one's under marketing, and then mine was under media studies.
- [23:41]
B
Gotcha.
- [23:42]
A
So I really. We focused on. On communications in the media and, like.
- [23:47]
B
How to handle wording.
- [23:49]
A
Yeah. I did a lot of public speaking.
- [23:52]
B
But, like, so PR makes sense because, like, when someone says communications, I usually think PR or journalism. How to eloquently get across your point while remaining. Mm.
- [24:04]
A
And then media studies is more in, like, front of the scenes. Because PR necessarily always isn't.
- [24:09]
B
No, they're not.
- [24:09]
A
It's very behind the scenes. So I wanted to be a. I wanted my concentration to be journalism, but I couldn't get through four Spanishes. So media studies it was.
- [24:20]
B
You didn't want to do four Spanishes?
- [24:21]
A
I couldn't. I took Spanish two, like, three times. Still not a lick. Don't know.
- [24:28]
B
Penny, I'm silently judging.
- [24:30]
A
I'm great at this language.
- [24:32]
B
Okay. Oh, my gosh. All right, so then what. How do you handle when you're telling somebody you're setting a boundary if they start to manipulate you or if they start to, like, gaslight you?
- [24:47]
A
I think that word is so fun.
- [24:49]
B
I think it's a little overused.
- [24:51]
A
What is gaslighting?
- [24:52]
B
Well, it's. Okay, so it's like making somebody believe that they're crazy intentionally. It's from a movie. It's called Gaslight. It's like a 1960s, 70s movie.
- [25:01]
A
Right.
- [25:02]
B
But I don't know, I feel like people use it. You're gaslighting me and I'm like, I'm just explaining my point of view.
- [25:09]
A
Right. Manipulation, I think, for me is when people try to use your emotions and your softness or your kindness against you. I think that's the biggest form of manipulation. When, you know, I have a lot of friends that are not confrontational and are people pleasers. And so when they finally do try to set a boundary or they finally do try to, you know, state how they're feeling, I think the people that they are trying to set that boundary and know they're people pleaser and that they. They know that it bothers them if they're upset, so they use that heartstring to pull on them and manipulate.
- [25:50]
B
Hundred percent. Yeah.
- [25:53]
A
Yeah.
- [25:53]
B
That irks me.
- [25:55]
A
That's why you gotta have a question.
- [25:56]
B
Do you think our world is as confrontational as we think it is or social media thinks it is? Because everybody loves therapy and therapy jargon now.
- [26:04]
A
No, I don't.
- [26:05]
B
Don't get me wrong. I do like therapy, but I don't.
- [26:08]
A
Because I think just because you can say it on social media, it's so much easier than you saying it to a person that you care about.
- [26:15]
B
But do people actually have that much confrontation in their lives?
- [26:18]
A
No.
- [26:18]
B
I mean, right?
- [26:21]
A
I don't. I wouldn't think. I think just because you can say it to a phone screen. I think the people, for instance, like people that would sit there and comment on your family. Do they come. How many times do you get people to come up in public and say the same rude things they say?
- [26:36]
B
Be surprised.
- [26:36]
A
Really?
- [26:37]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [26:37]
A
And punch them. See that? That. Don't I recommend, if you ever see me in public, if you got nothing nice to say, keep walking, because I'm not the one.
- [26:45]
B
I think you're just mostly dumbfounded. I. But I remember being like a kid and like being like 17 in Walmart and people. And this woman came up to me and she's like ripping me a new one about what she thinks about my parents. Life and I'm like I'm 17, I don't care. But anyway, yeah. I'm just here.
- [27:07]
A
Well, do you feel like people are as confrontational?
- [27:11]
B
I don't know because I feel like in my day to day life it's like I live a boring life. I always tell people like we're busy because I have kids and like you know, all these things going on. But it's not like, I don't know. My life is really quiet compared to the way I grew up. Like what do you think?
- [27:30]
A
Yeah. I mean my life is very quiet. I also think text hasn't helped us be, be able.
- [27:38]
B
Oh, I am 100%. If you have a problem, like if I'm starting to get messages, I'm going to call you.
- [27:43]
A
Yeah.
- [27:44]
B
And I won't respond until you answer.
- [27:46]
A
Yeah. I'm the type of person, I rather just talk face to face or on the phone.
- [27:50]
B
Yeah.
- [27:50]
A
Because I think people are really, really don't. That we really lack communication because of texting and social media.
- [28:03]
B
Yes. And I think about what I'm going to say. Like I don't just spew vitriol and I'm really, and I really try not to and I'm really like I don't want to be emotionally like mean, you know, like there's a lot of people that, there's a lot of things that are said in, when in heated emotions that necessarily aren't true. So I'm trying to think about how to word this or I'll take a break or I'll walk away from my phone and just be like, you know, take a breather. But if I'm like it's in the instant and I just keep getting text messages, I'll usually try and call if it's just one person. If it's a group message, I'm really.
- [28:46]
A
Bad at, I'm really, really bad at like just flying off the handle.
- [28:54]
B
You just go straight for it.
- [28:55]
A
Yeah. And I always end up saying something I don't regret. Like I'll regret.
- [28:59]
B
Yeah.
- [29:00]
A
Like if I am feeling attacked in any way, I myself first and, and this is not, this is not right. But my first instinct is to attack back and I really had to work on that in my.
- [29:10]
B
So that's how you like. So, so when you're handling conflict, confrontation and conflict, that is your knee jerk reaction.
- [29:17]
A
Yes.
- [29:18]
B
Because so how do you do that? How do you handle it now?
- [29:21]
A
I, I, I do think giving myself to think it through on what I want to say in a productive way because there have been so many times in my life that I end up looking like the bad guy because of how I've reacted to how they've treated me. And I. I'm done. Like, I realized that I. If you don't want to look at, like, the bad guy. Yes. You can confront somebody and. Or when they confront you, and you can converse and you can get your point across in a way that's very, like, stern, and they hear you without being mean. And I don't think I've always known that because I. If I feel like somebody has hurt my feelings, that's my first. Was, especially back in the day, was my first initial thing. Like, I'm going to hurt you worse than you've ever hurt me.
- [30:12]
B
Yeah.
- [30:12]
A
But I also think that has a lot to do with how I was raised.
- [30:16]
B
Like, your family dynamic.
- [30:18]
A
Yeah. Because I think. Because I always felt like I was on fight or flight mode, and so if I'll ghost you or I'll attack, you know?
- [30:31]
B
Right.
- [30:32]
A
So it's. For me, a lot of the times I don't go, so I attack.
- [30:37]
B
Do you? So, like, that was one thing that I had to learn is, like, you don't have to respond immediately, and you don't have to respond. Like, a lot of times when they're. So when somebody is attacking me or my character, a lot of times they're in a very heated emotional state, and they're a throwing out, like, straw man, like, or lying or whatever. And it's like, okay. Or they're just saying something from their perspective that's so not true because they're hurt or they're getting called out, and I'm like, I don't have to respond immediately because then it just keeps getting uglier and uglier and uglier.
- [31:22]
A
What do you think if you could, like, pinpoint what are your three biggest boundaries that you set in all of your relationships?
- [31:38]
B
I won't be lied to. God, I hate or lied about.
- [31:43]
A
Amen.
- [31:44]
B
Like, if I find out, first off, I don't mind you saying, like, hey, you need to. You should probably knock this shit off. I welcome constructive criticism. Like, if I'm doing something that's really hurting your feelings or is annoying to you, I'm like, okay, thank you. I'm gonna think about this. And, like, I'm sorry that I made you feel that way, and I'll work on that. But if you lie to me or lie about me, that's like, no controlling decisions in my life that have nothing to do with you. Right.
- [32:23]
A
That's a big one.
- [32:24]
B
I feel like so many people, especially, like, some of my family, has such colossal opinions about the way Caleb and I handle our lives. And it's like, this has nothing to do with you or, like the way we raise our kids or how we, like, we don't spank, which for some reason pisses people off. And so, like, I'll get people who will just. Which is so weird. Like, people immediately close to me. I'm sure the Internet doesn't care, but, like, so it's like, if you have an opinion about something in my life and I'll tell you, like, this has nothing to do with you. Like, this between Caleb and I and our kids and they continue that, I'm.
- [33:05]
A
Like, that's a good one. You are not entitled to explain yourself to people. Well, and not everybody deserves an explanation on how you live your life. The Internet, I mean, you know, it's.
- [33:23]
B
Not even like that. It's, it's, yes, the Internet, but also like, family, family members or friends. Like, I'm just like, I don't have.
- [33:30]
A
To justify why I'm making these choices for my life if they are not affecting you. And they are not hurting anybody around.
- [33:37]
B
Me or my kids. My kids are happy, healthy, they're well fed, they're well clothed, they love their life, they have good educations. And like, I mean, and somebody will make it, like, they'll get frustrated with decisions I make about my kids. And I'm like, this has nothing to do or finances.
- [33:57]
A
People love to try to tell you how to.
- [34:02]
B
Okay, that's a boundary that I struggle with because your finances. I usually don't tell people how to do it, but I'll go home, home and I'll like, stress about it, especially when it comes to my siblings. Like, I borrow, worry so much for, like, close friends and siblings that I just see doing stuff and I'm like.
- [34:19]
A
I have to realize that it's none of my business how people want to spend their money. And there it's none of their business on how I want to spend mine.
- [34:26]
B
And see, like, I don't like people having an opinion on how I do mine.
- [34:29]
A
But you know what I mean? Like, I, I, I've gotten this far. I don't, I don't need your opinion.
- [34:35]
B
On how unless I ask for advice.
- [34:37]
A
Yeah, but people still, and even the adults in Dylan and I's lives, you know what I mean? And it's not just like our parents, like, they're adults that always come around that will go, oh, you you did this or you did that financially. And it's like it is none, absolutely none of your business how my bills get paid. Yeah, you're not entitled to know.
- [35:03]
B
That's a good one. That's actually really good.
- [35:05]
A
And I don't have to explain it to you.
- [35:06]
B
I should also be better at it.
- [35:09]
A
It's good, but that's also good. I think one of my boundaries in my life for people is if they're not willing to self reflect.
- [35:16]
B
Okay, yes. I can't handle people take accountability held culpable.
- [35:23]
A
I cannot stand when I get into a conversation with somebody because we've had an argument and I go, you're right, I could have handled this better. And I look within myself and say I probably didn't say all the right things and I probably got too heated and I'm sorry for that. And they're not willing to cop to anything. That's a boundary for me. If you are not willing to say, you know what, you're right because I.
- [35:49]
B
Think what are your three boundaries is financial, the lack of the ability to self reflect.
- [35:57]
A
And I, I, I would kind of go both and both because we talked about the loyalty thing, but lying and loyalty, for sure, I'm not what is loyalty to you, which I think it's different for every person. But I think you made it like it clicked to me. It's like I won't be lied about or lied on. Like if you break a trust with me because you tell everybody around you, you have something, you, you are upset with me but you won't come to me and talk about it. That's an, that's a break of trust to me and that's a break of loyalty and that's being like lied on and that is a boundary for me.
- [36:33]
B
Yeah, I don't care if people disagree what I do, but don't talk bad about me unless and even then, like don't talk bad about, like bring it to me first. And I hate that I, I've had.
- [36:46]
A
So many friendships where I have worried that if they were in a room with people that didn't like me, they would flip and just say everything. And I'm, I'm really big on defending the people I choose to surround my life with because that's how sure I am. I'm choosing to surround myself with the right people. Like I will defend the people I love and choose to surround my life with. And I can't fathom why it's not done for me in a return. And so it's A boundary.
- [37:22]
B
So one of the things I had to learn about loyalty because I used to be like, I would go hard is I can still disagree with your decisions and love you. Because Hunter used to be like, if Maddie is got your back, she will not let anybody say anything bad about you, and she's going to defend you. And he's like, and sometimes it's frustrating because you, You. You neglect to point out the faults in people. And that is something that I've really had to learn, especially as my kids have grown, is loyalty is not blindly following and blindly defending loyalty is just being willing to stick up and, like, love you. And, hey, if I have a problem and say something, and if you're in a room, like, if Jamie's not there and somebody says something about you and be like, I don't know. Or like, everything that I say about somebody, I'm going to say to their.
- [38:19]
A
Face as well, I deserve, for me, a boundaries. I feel like I deserve to be loved out loud by everybody in my life. Like, you don't have to agree with me always, but, you know, saying, hey, Jamie's my friend and I love her, and that's really all there is to it.
- [38:38]
B
Yeah. I don't really want to, like, I'm not going to get into this with you.
- [38:41]
A
Yeah. Like, you don't have to like her.
- [38:44]
B
Yeah. But did you tell Jamie this? Does. Yeah. Like, did you tell them this? Yeah, like, well, no, not yet. I'm like, okay, well, until you tell them this, nothing's gonna get fixed.
- [38:54]
A
Yeah. Or why are you speaking on Jamie? You don't know her very well.
- [38:57]
B
Yeah.
- [38:58]
A
Why are you speaking about her finances?
- [38:59]
B
If somebody is talking about you that doesn't know you very well, that's a whole nother issue. Maybe you shouldn't be friends.
- [39:05]
A
Right. So, I mean, you know, it's that those are my biggest three, like, boundaries and, you know, also feeling safe. I mean, I really don't know how I. I feel like, if you were scared to tell somebody how you truly feel.
- [39:25]
B
Not because you're worried about hurting their feelings.
- [39:27]
A
No, not because.
- [39:28]
B
Because you're worried about a blowup.
- [39:29]
A
Yeah. Or how they're going to react or because they're going to hurt your feelings or you're going to feel smaller or diminished or dumb.
- [39:36]
B
It's like, I'm sorry that you feel that way. Sweet.
- [39:38]
A
That's not an. I always tell people, that's not an apology. I don't want it.
- [39:43]
B
I'm sorry that I made you feel that way.
- [39:45]
A
I'm Sorry you felt that way. That's not an apology. And I could care less to have it.
- [39:49]
B
Yeah. I think my three big boundaries are no lying. Like, don't lie to me. Or about me. She was. Oh, opinions. Like, your opinion about, like, I don't need to.
- [40:01]
A
Your children.
- [40:02]
B
Me and mine and Caleb's relationship, too. People always have opinions about that. And I'm like, you don't know it. Yeah. Yeah. And then probably finances.
- [40:15]
A
Yeah.
- [40:15]
B
But I need to work on that. But that's a good one.
- [40:18]
A
Yeah. I just. I think, because, you know, I think people think they're trying to guide you and help you, but at the same time, people are so funny about money.
- [40:31]
B
I will take advice from people with money who have done it successfully.
- [40:35]
A
Right.
- [40:36]
B
Like, but if you do not have your poop in a group financially, do not come and tell me how to do it financially.
- [40:46]
A
Final thoughts. I think that more people need to be okay with what they're feeling and expressing their feelings. I think people don't know how to set boundaries because one, they're worried about the other person and hurting their feelings. Two, they're people pleasers.
- [41:09]
B
Three, they don't know what boundaries are, and they think it's about controlling, like an obnoxious tick that you have.
- [41:14]
A
Yeah, right. Yeah. Because at. At some point, it's like, you just don't like me.
- [41:18]
B
Yeah. It's not. It's about you.
- [41:20]
A
Yeah.
- [41:21]
B
And, like, how it makes you feel.
- [41:23]
A
Yeah.
- [41:23]
B
A boundary is completely about you.
- [41:25]
A
I think people should be way more open to speaking about their feelings.
- [41:30]
B
Yes.
- [41:30]
A
And I think when you speak about your feelings, you kind of are setting a boundary. Like, hey, this really hurt my feelings. This is why. And this is why I really don't want to tolerate it anymore. And I think that the people that worry about what it's going to do to the other person, are they really caring about you?
- [41:50]
B
No.
- [41:53]
A
I think if people expressed how they felt more, we would be in better places.
- [41:57]
B
Communication.
- [41:58]
A
People don't communicate. And then people blow up. Blow up. Or like, they just go at ghost. I think also we are from a generation.
- [42:09]
B
We also need to be able to accept constructive criticism. Like, if somebody's like, hey, like what I was saying, like, my mom, she's like, you're really blunt sometimes. And it's like. It's like, oh, okay. So I've really had to work on, like, how do I say this tactfully?
- [42:23]
A
I know. I have so many people in my life that are very sensitive.
- [42:27]
B
That's 100% of them. Problem.
- [42:31]
A
And that was sarcasm. No, I mean, but I mean. And I am not. But I do. That's also me problem. Like, I do have to soften my heart a bit.
- [42:46]
B
Yeah, that's good.
- [42:47]
A
Yeah. So let us.
- [42:49]
B
I. I would love to know what your bound, like your three hard boundaries are. And like, how did you get there?
- [42:54]
A
I know that people are gonna like, comment and say, this is a boundary. And I'm gonna go, oh, my God, Yes. That's such a good one. And that's such a good one. And I'm gonna.
- [43:02]
B
I'm gonna forget because I. Obviously there's more that you have in your day to day life.
- [43:06]
A
I know, it's like, then I'm gonna have a long list.
- [43:09]
B
I hate when people drive really scary and I'm like, I'm gonna die when I'm with you. Especially when they have road rage. But I don't know if that's a boundary or just like a tick.
- [43:17]
A
That's all. I think that should be a part two to this discussion. What's a boundary? And what's just a tick? Like, what's an annoyance?
- [43:23]
B
Yeah, what just, like, bothers you? What's the easiest fix?
- [43:26]
A
Yeah, because it's like, if your husband never puts his dishes in the sink, is that a boundary?
- [43:32]
B
Or there's beard hair on the. That's like my ick.
- [43:37]
A
Yeah. So that's another thing in the comment. Put a boundary and just put a tick. You have what bothers you. Yeah, like an actual boundary read an actual tick. But thank you guys for joining us on this episode. We look forward to continuing our conversations. Bye.