Everyday Habits That Build Real Self-Respect | Dr Katherine Iscoe

Summary

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The Balance Theory

Episode: Everyday Habits That Build Real Self-Respect

Host: Erika De Pellegrin
Guest: Dr Katherine Iscoe
Date: February 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into what genuine self-respect looks like in everyday life, especially for high achievers struggling with people pleasing, overthinking, and burnout. Lawyer and host Erika De Pellegrin welcomes Dr Katherine Iscoe—confidence coach, PhD, and former CEO—to explore actionable habits, mindset shifts, and decision-making strategies that build real, sustainable self-respect. Through personal anecdotes, candid discussion, and practical frameworks, the episode challenges the narrative that happiness is life’s end goal—instead highlighting the enduring power and practicality of self-respect.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Self-Respect vs. Happiness

• Self-respect as the foundation:
  • Dr Iscoe shares:

    “All my choices in life was to chase respect… The key to life isn’t happiness. The key to life is actually waking up in the morning and saying, I’m proud of the choices that I’m making, and that's self-respect.” (00:00)

  • Pride in choices, not external validation, creates lasting fulfillment.

2. The Fawn Response & People Pleasing

• Understanding your trauma responses:
  • Dr Iscoe introduces the “fawn” response (in addition to fight, flight, and freeze)—a pattern of seeking to please or appease as a survival mechanism, often rooted in shame-based environments.
  • Quote:

    "You trust someone else’s instinct a lot more than your own. So you say, they know better than me." (03:16)

• Application in everyday life:
  • This manifests from not asserting dinner preferences to taking major career or life paths that others expect.

3. Losing & Reclaiming Yourself Over Time

• Minute-by-minute self-betrayal:
  • We don’t lose ourselves in one dramatic moment but “trade ourselves away one decision at a time.” (08:55)
• Dr Iscoe’s journey:
  • Years of high achievement masked a lack of authentic pride. Her “lightbulb” moment came not from drama, but slow realizations, culminating in a heartfelt conversation with her father:

    “Happiness is something that I can feel for you, but pride is something that you have to cultivate on your own. That’s your responsibility.” (05:41)

4. The Self-Respect Zones Framework (17:57)

• Discovery Zone:
  • Early awareness, questioning if one’s current life is truly right.
• Growth Zone:
  • Most people here; aware of responsibility for change, in the trenches of personal growth.
  • Quote:

    “The more you learn, the more you realize you know nothing.” (19:28)

• Mastery Zone:
  • Mastery is not perfection:

    "We don’t become masters through perfection. We become masters by making mistakes and bouncing back… The quicker we can bounce back… the quicker we become wise." (19:50)

  • Actively seeking discomfort and growth opportunities.

5. Habits, Boundaries & The Calendar as a Mirror (21:46)

• Self-respect is visible in your calendar:
  • “Whose calendar is it? … Never once do we take a step back and say, well, it was my choice to put those in those calendars. Burnout, in my opinion, has more to do with our choices than our busyness.” (21:46)
  • Boundaries aren’t just with others; you need them with yourself.
• On habits:
  • Avoid “black-and-white” thinking. Sometimes ‘bad’ habits serve us (25:03).

6. Pride Over Comfort—Everyday Practice (09:34, 11:45)

• Speaking up when it matters:

  • Don’t mute your views for comfort. Practice assertiveness through small “sliding door” moments.

• Memorable practical tip:

  • Pickled Onion Conversations:

    “If I need to bring something up with my partner, we have a safe word—‘Pickled onion’. The time might not be right, but it’s right for me. And that’s self-respect.” (12:07)

7. Mastery Skills: Learning from the Past like Yoda Not Darth Vader (26:04)

• “Look at your past through the lens of Yoda, not Darth Vader”:
  • Practice self-compassion and avoid harsh judgment for past decisions.
• “The most deleterious, negative weight that we can carry" is guilt and shame from our past (27:36).

8. Self-Respect in Decision-Making: Speed and Acceptance (33:12, 39:38)

• No perfect decisions—only choices and what you do after:

  “There’s no such thing as a perfect decision. You make a decision and then you make it right.” (33:12)

• Self-respect enables decisive action and faster rebound from ‘mistakes’.

9. The Reality of Setbacks and Life's Ebb and Flow (44:28)

• High achievers and go-getters, even with belief and self-respect, still hit “stalls.”
  • Don’t judge yourself for these ebbs; they’re a normal part of life and growth.
• Quote:

  “Thoughts are not directions. Thoughts are thoughts. You can either listen… or not. You can’t appreciate the sunny days if there are no rainy days.” (48:51)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On people pleasing:

  “Have you ever tried to make dinner plans with a fellow people pleaser?” (03:16)

• On pride:

  “The reward might be happiness. Happiness is a cherry on the sundae. Pride… typically… decisions that don’t comfort you at all. They challenge you.” (05:41)

• On assertive communication:

  “Are you trying to prove that you’re right or are you trying to make things right?” (09:34)

• On forgiveness and shame:

  “A lot of people think I need to lose weight. You know what you need to lose? The weight of guilt and shame.” (27:36)

• On resilience:

  “Resilience is like… memory foam. We think it should pop back to the same shape, but really it changes inside, and a lot of those might be uncomfortable.” (33:45)

• On imperfect action:

  "A poor decision is always gonna trump perfect hesitation." (41:35)

• On self-respect vs. confidence:

  “Confidence is what gets you into a room. Self-respect helps you stand tall when everything goes wrong.” (49:26) “When you walk into a room and you say, I’m special too… God damn it, you are.” (49:26)

• On imposter syndrome and high achievement:

  “Why not me? Why couldn’t this go right?” (50:51) “Taking risks rarely give you instant results. But doing nothing gives you a life of regrets.” (52:28)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:01 — Opening reflection: Chasing respect vs. happiness
• 03:14–05:29 — The fawn response and real-life examples
• 05:41–08:55 — Dr Iscoe’s turning point and her father’s wisdom
• 09:34–14:14 — Speaking up, pride vs. comfort
• 17:31–21:26 — Self-respect zones: Discovery, Growth, Mastery
• 21:46–25:03 — Boundaries, calendar audit, and habit nuance
• 26:04–29:40 — Mastery mindset: Past compassion, letting go of shame
• 33:12–36:20 — Decision-making, resilience, and navigating imperfection
• 39:38–43:49 — New self-respect: Gut decisions, quick recovery
• 44:28–49:11 — Setbacks, momentum stalls, life's ebb and flow
• 49:26–53:24 — Closing wisdom: Defining and recognizing self-respect

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Practical Tools & Takeaways

• Audit your calendar for self-driven decisions; notice where you “trade yourself away.”
• Recognize micro-moments—small everyday choices—where you can practice self-respect.
• Embrace mistakes as learning opportunities, not as shame-inducing failures.
• Use safe-word cues (“pickled onion conversations”) in relationships to assert needs with care.
• Replace “Why me?” with “Why not me?” when self-doubt arises.
• Forgive your past self: Don’t carry guilt or shame for choices made with different knowledge.
• Understand that perfection is the enemy of action—lower the bar and act.
• Remember: “A poor decision is always gonna trump perfect hesitation.” (41:35)

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Final Definition of Self-Respect

"Confidence is what gets you into a room. Self-respect helps you stand tall when everything goes wrong... When you walk into a room and you say, I’m special too. And that is important."
— Dr Katherine Iscoe (49:26)

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For more from Dr Katherine Iscoe, check out her book linked in the show notes!

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This summary captures the language, tone, and insights of Dr. Katherine Iscoe and Erika De Pellegrin as they demystify real self-respect for anyone wanting to live with more pride and authenticity. Listen to the full episode for all the candid anecdotes and practical wisdom.

Transcript

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

All my choices in life was to chase respect. If you like me, I like me. I just realized the key to life isn't happiness. The key to life is actually waking up in the morning and saying, I'm proud of the choices that I'm making, and that's self respect.

[Podcast Host]

Today's episode is for high achievers who are absolutely done with overthinking and people pleasing and ready to learn what real self respect looks like and how it translates practically into everyday life. Joining us to workshop, this is Dr. Catherine Isco. If you were to audit somebody's calendar, what would instantly tell you whether they respect themselves or not?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Whose calendar is it? We talk a lot about boundaries with others, but we forget that sometimes we need boundaries with ourselves. And that starts with our calendar. So there's a fight, flight freeze, and then there's a fawn response. Basically, your response to a threat become more appealing to that threat. What happens with that is that you trust someone else's instinct a lot more than your own.

[Podcast Host]

What are some of the really obvious things we're doing every single day that mean we're trading ourselves away?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

If I go to a restaurant and I order a steak and it comes back and it's really not good, it's overcooked in my head, I have already catastrophized the moment of sending it back. I can picture the chef saying, who does this girl think she is? It's a steak. But as a people pleaser, this is a really, really difficult situation for me because I'm putting their emotions ahead of mine.

[Podcast Host]

What would you say to that person right now so they can move into self respect?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Mm. By listening to this episode, a person is gonna be reminded that their life is their own. And there's no time better than now to make those hard decisions to really catapult your life forward.

[Podcast Host]

All right, balancers, welcome back to another episode of the Balance Theory. I'm so excited to have today's conversation. I have the lovely Catherine Iscoe joining me on the podcast today. Catherine, welcome.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Great to be here.

[Podcast Host]

Great to have you. And you're new to Dubai, so welcome to the city.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Thank you. Shukran.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, you're picking up a bit more than what I have in four years.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

That's good.

[Podcast Host]

I think today's conversation is going to resonate with a lot of people. It's going to help people instill a lot of confidence and trust in themselves through, I think, some really practical ways they can realign, you know? And where I want to start is understanding a little Bit more about you and your past. So to really like set the stage. Stage, I think it'll be very interesting to understand. Can you share a time, maybe in the past where you have muted parts of yourself in order to keep things stable or normal, you know, cruising in your life.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

You've basically, basically described half my life right there. I think it's muted your instincts and I'm sure maybe you've had this, you know, we were just talking about energy, where you feel a certain energy and everything in your body is saying nah, but you say yes or yes and then no. So instincts, I think get a lot clearer as you get wiser and older. So that part of it is just time to understand what's right for you and what's not. But I don't know if you've ever heard of something called the fawn response.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, please tell us about it.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Yeah, so Pete Walker, who was a therapist, worked with several children, well, many, many children with trauma. And so there's a fight, flight, freeze, and then there's a fawn response where basically, basically your response to a threat become more appealing to that threat. So this is typically found in households that are shame based. So it could be anything from narcissistic parents to emotional abuse, you name it. And what happens with that is that you trust someone else's instinct a lot more than your own. So you say, they know better than me. So as an adult, this might manifest as I'm not going to follow my own desire for my career. I'm going to follow what I think other people think is right for me. Or it could be even just something benign as dinner plans. Have you ever tried to make dinner plans with a fellow people pleaser? It goes something like this. It's like, oh, so where do you want to go for dinner? And then the other person says, oh, I don't know, you're so much better at deciding, why don't you pick? And I'm like, oh my God, no, I picked last time, I'm pretty sure. Do you want to go? And it goes on ad nauseam. So of course, dinner plans, we're talking about a benign situation, but when we're talking about life choices such as your career, your relationships, that's when we have to start asking ourselves, do we care more about the opinion that we have of ourself or what we think the opinion of others are of us? And so I can give you multiple examples of, you know, when I've sort of called down my instinct, but a big one was doing My doctorate, I found myself, you know, basically 11 years in school, thinking I spent all this time on a subject that, yeah, I was interested in, but I wasn't passionate about it. Now, do I regret it? No, definitely not. Mostly because a PhD gave me my doctor title, and I'm pretty sure that helps me with upgrades. I'm pretty sure. But in all honesty, I think it's so important to not wait until the middle of your life to realize that it's actually your life and no one's really thinking about you.

[Podcast Host]

And talk to me about that moment where you realized, this is my life and I'm actually gonna take back ownership over my decisions. Like, walk us through what that turning point looked like for you.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

You know what I would have loved? For it to be like an Eat Pray Love moment or a light bulb moment. Because when my life gets turned into a movie by Jennifer Aniston or Jennifer Lawrence, I haven't picked yet, you know, wouldn't that be great? You know, that Hollywood moment? But I always say that life is kind of like a dimmer switch. Moments where there's days that you wake up and you have a little bit more clarity in your life, and then the next day happens and you're like, what happened to that clarity? I have no idea where. Who I am. I have no idea where I'm going. So in my case, it wasn't just this, wake up, you know, let me take back my life. It was more in these small moments of realization. A conversation where I said what I wanted to say rather than what I think other people wanted me to say. An idea that I actually went after rather than just planning for the perfect moment. So it was a slow little, I guess, change, but it really culminated in, I would say, an emotional breakdown, or as Brene Brown would call it, a spiritual awakening. Where I just said to myself, here I am, I'm 43, and I'm on stage. People are applauding me. You know, on the outside, success. PhD, summa cum laude graduate, you know, CEO of a dually listed public company. Go me. Amazing CV. But I woke up and I was just thinking, what the hell am I doing with my life? So, of course, I did the most responsible thing possible and I ran away. Ran back home to my dad. And my dad is my best friend. He. And we started having this conversation about life. And I said to my dad, I just realized something. You never really said that you're happy for me. You always said that you're proud of me instead. Why is that? And he said, Squigs. He calls me Squiggles. He said Squigs. Happiness is something that I can feel for you, but pride is something that you have to cultivate on your own. That's your responsibility. And that's when if there was ever a light bulb moment, it was then. It was this question of all my choices in life was to chase respect. If you like me, I like me. Oh, you respect my career, then I respect my career. And then I just realized the key to life isn't happiness. The key to life is actually waking up in the morning and saying, you know what? Life is really hard. But God damn, I'm proud of the choices that I'm making. And I know that if I'm proud of the choices that I make, that eventually the reward might be happiness. Happiness is a cherry on the sundae. Pride is typically the decisions that don't comfort you at all. They challenge you. I'll get off my soapbox now. But the point being is I really hope when the audience is listening to this, they're not waiting for that light bulb moment, that they start opening their eyes to those little sliding door moments every single day that there's a why in the road. And they can speak up, they can say something different, they can choose different. Not that light bulb moment that's just going to change if it happens to them. Muzzles off. That's wonderful. But chances are it's the little moments that they should wake up to.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'm glad you shared that because often we do, thanks to Hollywood and movies and media, feel like it is this life changing, world shattering moment where, you know, things just completely are radicalized in our life and it's not often the case. And I think the inverse is true. That, and I know you talk about this how, you know, most people don't lose themselves all at once. They trade themselves away one decision at a time. What I'm really interested to understand is, and in your work and what you see and maybe even in your personal experience, what are some of the really obvious things we're doing every single day that mean we're trading ourselves away?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Have you ever, have you ever had a conversation with someone and in your mind you're thinking, what the heck are you talking about? Yes, I'm going to tell you something. And you got the finger up in your head, you're going to have the like the hair flick, check your nails moment and this and that. And what do you do?

[Podcast Host]

Say nothing.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

You smile. Yeah, you're nice. And then the shower that you have at night, you're spending 90% of that shower having imaginary conversations and you're winning imaginary arguments with that person. And then at 2am, especially if you're going through perimenopause, that's fun, where you are up and it's like 10 times as bad. Then you wake up the next day, you're like, I'm going to do something about it. And then you're talking to that person and they say, oh God, I've had the worst morning ever. And what do you say? I'm going to suppress my tension to ensure the peace between us. But that tension needs to go somewhere. And when we try to please everyone, we please no one. This is one of the most common things that I see on a daily basis. It's not the right time. I don't have the right words. You're never going to have the right words. Have the conversation. If it doesn't go right, you can make it right. And especially with conversation. So I always say, are you trying to prove that you're right or are you trying to make things right? Because there's a big difference between the two. Our ego wants to prove we're right. And don't get me wrong, when I'm talking to my partner, there's a voice in my head, you're gonna take him down, right? And you want that so bad. But then you have to take a step back and say, you know, what am I trying to achieve here? When I'm putting my head on the pillow at night, do I want to keep the happiness or do I want to say that I'm proud of the conversation that I had today? And that gets back to what I was saying before. There's this choice between happiness and pride. Oftentimes the easy choice, happiness, woo, feels so good. But pride, oh gosh, it feels like a slap in the face after an acid peel. I mean, it feels horrendous at the time, but God damn, your skin looks good afterwards, right?

[Podcast Host]

Hmm. What's the fine line? I mean, I, I can appreciate what you've just said, but what's the fine line between being sensitive and receptive to maybe how somebody else is feeling and maybe bringing something up that's been on your mind in a moment that is more appropriate, shall we say, versus, you know, you. There's never going to be a right time and you should just say what you've got to say.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

I think it's situation dependent. I mean, for me, silence is my default. I was born in, I guess I was raised. I Should say, in an era where the good girl era, where silence was our default, you don't speak up. You don't. God forbid that you would say actually something complimentary about yourself, because that's way too arrogant. God forbid that you would actually assert your boundaries. That would be selfish. Or, oh, my gosh, expressing your emotions. Forget about it. That's overreacting. So we have to recognize that how we were raised is going to influence how we see those conversations. Because, for quote unquote, an average person speaking up might just be a normal thing. I'll give you an example. So if I go to a restaurant and I order a steak, and it comes back and it's really not good. It's overcooked, undercooked, whatever, like that. In my head, I have already catastrophized the moment of sending it back. I can picture the chef saying, who does this girl think she is? Making, like, the worst day for the chef. It's a stake. It's a stake. I'm allowed to send it back. But as a people pleaser, this is a really, really difficult situation for me because I'm putting their emotions ahead of mine. All right, so taking a step back to what we were saying, when is the time? Right again, situation dependent. But, for example, my partner, he would eat conflict for dessert. He has no problems with it. He's Croatian. He wakes up, fired up. I'm Canadian. I say, sorry, I've actually ran into a door and apologized to running into the door. I've apologized to a door. So we have this thing where if I need to bring something up, we have a safe word. Pickled onion. He loves pickled onions. I don't know why we chose that, but. So I say, honey, I need to have a pickled onion conversation, meaning the time might not be right, but it's right for me. And that's self respect. Self respect is when you tell yourself the time is never gonna feel right, especially when you're a people pleaser, because that's your default. Your default is to constantly think of others before yourself. So that's my little trick. You don't have to use pickled onion.

[Podcast Host]

No, I love that. That's a really nice way to. You know, Actually, I do a similar thing with my partner, but I do like that way of framing it. It's kind of like, can you hold space for me right now? And I always say to him, if you can't, like, I'm not gonna unload, because, like, what I'm gonna say is gonna be weighted But I need to just get it off my chest so I know if he's in a bit of a moment, he can't hold that space for me. It's, you know, but that's a good way to just vibe check, almost like, is this the right time for you to hold that space for me? What was the first time you felt not happy, but proud of yourself?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Oh, making that career decision for sure. So I was CEO at the time and it just wasn't right for me. And interestingly, up until that point, I went from being a fitness expert to a body competence expert to a confidence expert. And I just found myself giving these keynotes on stage and. And people were plotting, doing really kosher subjects such as heart rate variability, stress management, mindset management, really gearing it towards more the physiology side, which is what my background is in. And it's wonderful because it was a great tick box exercise for HR departments and for the cfo. Okay, we're doing mindset, we're doing stress response. But every time I came back from that stage, I was like, that wasn't me, you know? Yeah, I got the applause, but I wasn't proud of myself by any means. And I remember the first time that I gave a Talk that was 100% me, and it was actually for my university and I had a structure in mind, but I thought, you know what, I'm just going to speak not even from the heart, but speak from experience. These were postgraduates. I was a postgraduate. And I remember afterwards there was a one and a half hour lineup to ask me questions, and I was me. And every time I say this story, I almost start to cry because

[Podcast Host]

the

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

level of pride that you feel when you say, this is me, this is how I see the world, you might see it the same way. If you do, I hope this helps. If you don't, maybe your friend does. But this is me. And this is why I have this tattoo on my arm. My dad. You know, parents, when they give you advice when you're a kid, you're like, oh, you're so weird and you're so wrong, you know nothing. And then over time, he would keep on saying this quote. It says, to thine own self be true, which is from Hamlet. And over time I was like, I just don't get it. Just don't get it. And then finally I got it. I'm like, being true to yourself, typically it's going to cost you something. In that moment when I was talking about my experience, I'm telling you, it was not Comfortable. Because that old mindset was, everyone's bored. Everyone thinks I'm stupid. That mindset's there. But after I said, I know I'm never, ever going to be able to please everyone, but I'd rather be more proud of the opinion I have of myself than the opinion that I think other people have of me.

[Podcast Host]

Beautiful. Thank you so much for opening up and sharing that.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Oh, gosh, that's not.

[Podcast Host]

Well, it's a nice. It's a really nice moment in.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

It is. And I hope people get to experience that. I really, truly do.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Another thing you talk about that I think is going to help like unpack this practically for the listener, self respect zones. Now, I took the quiz on your website because I really loved the idea of it. My score was 33 out of 48, which means I'm in the growth zone. So I would love for you to unpack what the self respect zones are and maybe you can talk to me about the growth zone in case any of the listeners resonate with that as well.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Yeah, majority of people fall into the growth zone, which is wonderful, but it's also the hardest. So we'll start with the Discovery zone. It's hardest, but in a good way because you're sort of. It's like when you start a fitness journey, you know, at the beginning it's really, really hard, but then you sort of start to get a little momentum and then you're just where you're on that sort of plateau and you're like, ah. So the Discovery Zone is when you wake up and you think, is this what life is meant to be? Like, am I really supposed to stay silent when I'm meant to speak up? Do I really want to stay in this career? Do I really want to stay in this relationship?

[Podcast Host]

So you're asking questions.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Yeah. You're starting to be like, this doesn't feel right. It's kind of like wearing Spanx to a buffet. Like, you might, life might be going okay, you might look good, but it is uncomfortable. And you're like, do I? You know, something just doesn't feel right. Now, the growth zone. The reason why it's challenging is because even just what you said about you and your partner, how you approach conversations, you're starting to dabble while you're not even. You're starting. You're clearly in that zone of, I know the responsibility of changing my life falls on me. If I want to have a better relationship, I can't wait for someone else to change it for me. I need to do it myself. When it comes to this podcast, the reason why it is what it is isn't because of anyone but you. That's your responsibility. But the problem with that is the more you learn, the more you realize you know nothing.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

And that is so hard because you'll have days where you are nailing it. You're, like, just coasting. Everything feels good, you're winning. And then the next week, something hits you from left field, and you're thinking, what? I was doing so well.

[Podcast Host]

What's happening definitely resonate with that. Yeah.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

So that's a problem with the growth zone. You actually don't feel like you're growing, even though you are, because all you're thinking is, shouldn't I know better? My now isn't this. Shouldn't this be easier? Shouldn't life be a little bit. Be a little bit more easy to navigate? And it's really easy to get down on yourself in this situation. I should be further ahead. This should be easier. Now, the mastery zone is an interesting one because you sort of figured out that life is never going to be easy, but your ability to navigate it will become easier. Right. That's how you're going to be able to get around blind corners in the mastery zone. You might take this as well. I'm a master. But the interesting thing is we don't become masters through perfection. We become masters by making mistakes and bouncing back from those mistakes. And the quicker we can bounce back from those mistakes, the quicker we become wise, if that makes sense. So this is when you start thinking, okay, life is a bit easier, but you actually are looking for situations where you want to be uncomfortable. You're putting yourself in rooms where you don't feel like you belong. You're having conversations with people who you think might be, you know, better, quote, obvious, successful, more rich, blah, blah, blah than you. But you go into those conversations being like, yeah, they're smarter, they have more followers, they have more degrees, they have more whatever. But I'm important, too, and I actually want to put myself in a situation where I'm making mistakes because, man, that. That teaches me so quickly. So that's a fun zone.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Before we get into sort of really practical things we can do to move into that mastery zone, or practical skills or tools you would be using if you're in that zone, I want to ask you, if you were to audit somebody's calendar or their habits or just looking at how they conduct their daily lives, what would instantly tell you whether they respect themselves or not?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Whose calendar is it? If you look at your appointment books, who's making those decisions? You know, we talk about burnout a lot, right? Our busy calendars. Oh, we're so busy. But never once do we take a step back and say, well, it was my choice to put those in those calendars. Burnout, in my opinion, has more to do with our choices than our busyness. And the problem is we need to start looking at the choices that we're making. When I swear, I think my security guard now knows I'm in perimenopause, I'm telling everyone, but when I first went to a doctor that truly understood me, and we started on hrt and I just realized I can't do nights out anymore. And I miss that. Don't get me wrong, my partner, we love going out for dinner, this and that, but my calendar doesn't have anything after 6pm now. Why? Because I know it kills me for days on end. That's my calendar. You know, it's sometimes boundaries. We talk a lot about boundaries with others, but we forget that sometimes we need boundaries with ourselves. And that starts with our calendar.

[Podcast Host]

And what would you have anything similar to say about habits, like the way we. We're actually spending our time, aside from how we're scheduling our time?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Habits, I would say, is a little bit more challenging because it could be habits, as in how much Netflix you watch. You know, do you eat a. Do you drink a green smoothie or do you have, you know, a bottle of champagne? So there's lots of different variants to that in regards to habits. And I think oftentimes we put habits into buckets of good habits and bad habits. And I think the problem with that, especially as balance, is we think in our head that good habits equals balance. But the problem with that, it's kind of like a, you know, a seesaw of those things that if you have only good on one side, that's not really balanced. So it's many, many years ago, I used to teach this theory called 50 shades of green because I was formerly a binge eater and binge eater. The challenge with that is you only look at life through very good angel, very bad devil. So very good would be basically air or like a organic vegetable farmed by monks in the mountains. You know, like, it would be so specific and then everything else. So what I developed is 50 shades of green. So you got the really nutritious foods, and then you had the foods that, like what Anastasia got me today, a whole bunch of sugar, which I'm So excited to eat. But I don't just focus on that. So when it comes back to habits, I think it's more the responsibility of the person asking yourself, how do you feel when you're engaging in those habits? You know, sometimes in our life, especially when we're going through a rough time, I'm sorry, we're not superheroes. You're not going to be all like rainbows and butterflies and unicorns. You might have an epic Netflix binge and that's what you needed at the time. So is that a bad habit? I don't know about that. Sometimes that's just what you need in the moment. So do you know what I'm saying?

[Podcast Host]

Like, it's really hard to 100%. I don't think we can be as granular as black and white when it comes to habits. Like a perfect example is right now I'm in the middle of a recording block. So I'm doing 10 episodes across four to five days, which is big chunk for me, especially with a 6 month old. Like that's a big block of work for me. So the last few days I've ordered breakfast, which I normally never. Like, not never, sorry, I. I normally very rarely order takeaway. It's maybe like a, it's a Friday night thing or once we do a couple times on the weekend. But like to order out every day for a few days, that's not common for me. But that's something I am doing now to support me through this period where my time is capped. So, like, I don't think we can look at habits very granularly either. If we come back to the self respect zones and we're talking about that last one, mastery, which arguably is the one we want to be sitting in.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

It's the zone we want to be sitting in. What are the skills or tools that someone sitting in that zone is using on a regular basis? Maybe you can give us like your top one or two.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Sure. I would say the top one is being able to look at your past through the lens of Yoda, not Darth Vader. I used to have a stutter, so sometimes I always find words hard to say. Darth Vader. And what I mean by that is oftentimes we look at something that's happened in our past and we say to yourself, how could we not know better? We were so stupid at that time. But it's the equivalent of saying to ourself in kindergarten, I can't believe you were so stupid. Why did you not know what one plus one equals. When you have self respect, you understand that at the time, you didn't have the knowledge that you have now. And while this might on the surface seem like such a simple thing, just think about the amount of time that we spend overanalyzing, overthinking, over scrutinizing a decision that we made in the past minutes, hours, days, years. I know I did that for a long time. And can we use that energy to think about something else? And that's sort of getting into overthinking, you know, what's overthinking, what's thinking. But I would say in the mastery zone, the people that are in this zone have this beautiful ability not to forget about the past, because that's not going to happen. We're not going to lobotomize ourselves.

[Podcast Host]

And it's a part of you.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

It is. And once we realize that, we can learn from that rather than feel immense amounts of shame from that. And it is, you know, a lot of people think I need to lose weight. You know what you need to lose the weight of guilt and shame. That is the most deleterious, negative weight that we can carry. When you know better, you do better. Obviously mom's, maybe not mine, but I would say that is 99% of life right then and there. And I just, I feel for people the number of times that I give a keynote and someone comes up to me and, you know, sort of very secretly says, like, oh, but you know, this is what happened in the past. And you can just see it in their body, that, just the clench of it. And I say, you know, but that was you then. And just the relief. Yeah, I just, I wish more people could see that. That would be. If I had one wish, one wish for the world. It's just for people to just be able to forgive themselves for the past. Be such a nicer world.

[Podcast Host]

It's true. Because, you know, even. Even myself, at different moments, my partner, friends of ours like you, you do have many different conversations where you realize people are carrying the weight of their past regrets or decisions and it's still holding them back today. Like, I still have even like extended family members that I see that are carrying around shame or regret from relationships 30, 40, 50 years ago. You know, what's that preventing them from experiencing in this life today? Yeah. What would you say to somebody right now is listening that really is sitting in that energy of like, but you. But like, this thing has really happened to me and like, it's really prevented me from taking the next step and like, it's really, really impacted me because of X, Y, Z experience or because of XYZ person or what someone said to me or didn't say to me or this person broke up with me. You know, when you're in that feeling, which we've all been there, there's nothing wrong with you for being there, but what would you say to that person right now so they can move into self respect?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

I'll try not to cry for sure, because I've been in that situation many times when. So I was suicidal three times in my life. And it's a feeling that I would never wish on anyone because in that moment, you think you're not special enough. And in that moment, all you can see is darkness. You can't see anything in front of you. And the challenge with that is there's nothing someone can say or do to get you out of that moment. I wish. I wish there was. And I remember talking to my dad once after yet another guy dumped me. I was a little bit of a stage five claimer. Like, is breaking into someone's phone really that big of a deal? And changing messages? And he dumped me. And I was talking to my dad. I said, dad, just fix it. Fix it for me. Make life easier. And he said, squigs, I can't do anything. Time is going to teach you what to do.

[Podcast Host]

I used to hate when my parents would say that to me.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Oh, I was like, I was so angry at him. So angry. Because there I am, I'm in pain, my life is ending, and all he says is time. Now, of course, he also said, I'm here. I'm sorry, that sucks. But the core of it is time. And I wish. I wish I had a magic answer, because Lord knows that would probably make me a billion dollars. But I'm not. This is where self respect is. I can make up an answer and I can sell that answer. But the truth is, the beautiful thing about self respect is the word self. People have the answers inside them. It might just not be the time for those answers to come out. But you will find them. You will find them. If you're listening to this podcast and listening to this moment, that is a sign that you're already on the right way.

[Podcast Host]

What are your thoughts on. You know, there's different things we do in life where we're walking this fine line of resilience versus a need to just abandon ship, quit, or pivot. And sometimes ego plays a role in that. And I wonder as well what role self respect plays in that, you know, be resilient in a business you've started or a career that maybe you're not enjoying. Like, just push through, make it work. Relationship. Did I say relationship? Yeah, a relationship. It could be a hobby, something you're putting up with. And I feel like sometimes, and I've experienced this, it's like a question to self of how do I know when I need to pivot or abandon something that's no longer serving me versus I'm just pushing through and trying to see this out like again, as the people pleaser sitting there. Sometimes I think you can probably fall into just maintaining the status quo or pushing something beyond what it's serving you just to keep things sort of at bay when you would be better off abandoning ship and pivoting. So any thoughts around this sort of decision? And I feel like a lot of what we're talking about comes down to like the decision we have to make and whether it's grounded in self respect or not. How does self respect play into resilience versus quitting?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Yeah. So when it comes to decision making, self respect enables you to make quicker decisions but also navigate the aftermath. And what I mean is kind of like the decision hangover. And the reason why you have that decision hangover is because you realize is that no decision is going to be a perfect decision ever. And I'm talking about decisions like, this isn't, should I have an apple or a banana? I'm talking about significant life decisions. It's never, ever, ever going to be a perfect decision. Especially when you're dealing with someone else, especially someone that you care about. You cannot get out of a situation and everyone is hunky dory. Everyone's like, oh, I'm so happy that we broke up. You know, muscle, you know, it's not going to be like that. So when it comes to resiliency, I think it's important to recognize what is actually resilience. You know, we talk about it all the time. And the best way I can explain is because we think that resilience is all of a sudden we're just like amazing. We have clean pores, we have like shiny hair and we're like, you know, the angel is singing afterwards. Resilience to me is like when you get memory foam and you squish it, right? Like you're going through all these challenges and it's like just really contorted in this and that right in your head. Resilience says, oh, it just pops back into the exact same shape it was. But what we don't see is there's little changes inside. There's little shifts that happen inside of us. And a lot of those might be uncomfortable. That's resilience. Resilience is going through something, challenging it changing us, but understanding that change is actually for the better, even though we might not understand it at the time. So back to your question of whether it's a relationship, business, et cetera, et cetera. The hard thing is, do we ever really know it's the right time? Marc Randolph, I believe he was the co founder of Netflix, he said there's no such thing as a good idea. All ideas started as bad ideas. And it was only through trial and error instead of asking questions that eventually it may be, might become a good idea. And I think it's the same thing with decisions. There's no such thing as a perfect decision. You make a decision and then you make it right. That's the way I approach world. And especially in the mastery, you understand that if you get, if you get it right, eight times out of ten, I think you're doing pretty well. Right. This whole thing about excelling in life doesn't require perfection. And as a recovering perfectionist, that's like vinegar to say. It's hard to say that, you know, when you're typing an email and you're like checking the grammar and this and that. Send the damn email. It's almost like we're in life. We're standing on a tennis court, we have the racket and the ball's coming towards us and we're like, no, we'll swing at the next one. No, I wouldn't be able to hit that perfectly. Swing the damn racket. Make the decision. It's not going to be perfect.

[Podcast Host]

Walk me through your decision to leave. You know what, what can be looked at as quite an esteemed role. You're sitting as a CEO. Did you have to work through ego around your association with that title, your identity with that title, or was it a clean cut decision for you? You know, can you just walk me through that process? Because I, I want to speak to the fact that I think there's a part of what we're speaking about which is the awareness. Right. And understanding. Okay, I can see things for the way they are, but the execution, which is, and taking action on that decision is a different game. And there's a lot more that kind of plays into that to bring your self respect to the surface. So can you just walk us through your personal experience making that shift out

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

of a role like that it was hard, very hard. Because especially being in that role, you're not just you, it's not just you and your imaginary friend in your head, in the company. Right? But at the end of the day, it's almost like, have you ever worn a really uncomfortable pair of pants to like a date or a meeting and this and that. You're trying to concentrate, but you're just. It's constantly just digging into your sides. And that's what it felt like, that role. It might, the pants might have looked fantastic. No question. Lord knows when. You know, networking events and what do you do? Oh, well, you know, ego, ego, ego. Look at me, fancy pants. Especially being a woman in STEM. So PhD in STEM, CEO, like summa cum laude graduate. Like the tick boxes were there. Honey, it was good.

[Podcast Host]

You had the blazer with all the metals.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Yeah, it's funny that you say that because I was actually working with a brand consultant and she, I remember this, she said you needed a doctor closet and then you can wear what you like in the other closet. What I'm saying here is that it's really, really hard to pretend to be someone you're not for an extended period of time. You can, but I think you're gonna have to take a lot of therapy for sure. And listen, I think it's important to recognize that jumping from that over to the other side wasn't like, oh, my life is perfect now. It's always going to be challenging, but it's your challenges that's the thing. I'm not living my life and navigating challenges that I don't even want to challenge. It's again, to that and self be true. This is my guiding light. Decisions, when I speak up, when I don't speak up, when I make decisions, what I talk about, it all comes back to this.

[Podcast Host]

And I really appreciate the practicality of what you're sharing and, and the realness of it. It's not that, you know, you have self respect, then you make these decisions and you're like flying and everything's great because like there's still emotions at play, the still life. But in terms of decision making now and how it looks different to you than it did before, you know, you were talking about how you would stay up late and overthinking and really like meandering on. I should have said this. And playing out the argument and all of that. How does decision making look different to you today? Do you just go off your gut, move on done or you know, like, what's the. What Is really the difference for you that self respect has enabled for decision making?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

I think it's self belief is a huge part of it. You know the saying like why me? Why, why would, if I, if I launch this business, why would I be the one that's successful? That could never happen to me. Self respect is why not me? So when it comes to decisions, I'll give you an example. Right now I'm starting a community and you know, there's about 6 trillion different software options online over the Christmas holiday. I'm going through them all. One of them has this benefit that has that benefit. Oh, that's a little bit cheaper, that's a little bit more expensive. Software aspect is saying it's not about the platform, it's about the community. I'm going to pick this one. Credit card goes in, bada bing, bada boom. Done. If it's not the right platform, I'll move to another platform. That said, I have better things to do with my life than worry about $5 difference or that this doesn't have a certain trinket, whatever, like that. And I know that's a benign example, but I think this idea, especially when you're a high achiever, you're waiting for that moment of certainty.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Like the clarity clouds plotting.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Yes. Like, oh, you know, and it just doesn't. And I think a lot of the inherent mindset to that is if I make the wrong decision, I'm gonna look really stupid.

[Podcast Host]

Yes. There's shame around being perfect.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Absolutely. And that's why, you know, even when we ask questions, you know, we're at a conference, so this might be a stupid question. You know why? Because we're prefacing that if it is a stupid question. Well, we knew it. We're certain that we knew it. Right. And if it's a really smart question, then we're like, oh, she's so humble. No, just ask a damn question. Right. And I think with decisions, so, you know, your audience might be chewing on, I always say, like an osso buco, which as an Italian, you know, you need to let it percolate. Yeah. You need to let it develop the

[Podcast Host]

flavors a bit that inside to be

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

nice and soft, you know, nice little tender and. But then it gets to the point where, you know, it's ready. So if they're at that osso buco moment where they're ready, just ask themselves, are they trying to make a perfect decision or are they just trying to make a decision? You know, a poor decision is always gonna trump perfect Hesitation.

[Podcast Host]

I wonder how much time you would save applying that logic, you know, especially to menial things that we make a lot bigger and important than maybe they need to be. Like, things like when I think back to when I was starting this podcast and how long I spent thinking about the colors and the logo and you know, how many times I've changed that in the last five years? Like, every couple of years, I'm changing the branding, so.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Because you're changing.

[Podcast Host]

Exactly. So, like, these things that we put so much importance on actually just stall the end product that we're trying to get to, whether that be a big move overseas, a relationship change, picking up a hobby, like, anything simple, like the color of your rug on the floor, like, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely practical advice.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

I think we've all done that. I remember because I'm an introvert, me and my dog's on the couch. No problem. Like, that's great. And I remember when I was first in business, I thought, oh, I'll just make a really pretty website. And then just the business is just going to roll in. Right? No problem. It didn't work. Go figure. So I'm like, oh, I know what it is. It's because all the font is left justified. It should be center justified. So I'm spending hours and hours and hours didn't work. And the reason why is I'm avoiding doing the hard thing, which is putting myself out there. And so I think with decision, oftentimes we search for all the easy way around things rather than actually just making the making it happen ourselves. And it's hard because, again, it gets back to that whole feeling like, why? Why would I be the one? Why would my dreams come through true? Why not you? Like, just because we're not kids anymore doesn't mean that we can't make our dreams come a reality. And I think that's so incredibly important. We get to the stage where, you know, we might be raising a kid, and we just think, I hope your dreams come true. Well, what about yours? I think it's important to remember, just because we're not kids anymore doesn't mean that we can't dream.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, no, definitely. You know, this show, the heart of it is really to inspire others to create a life that they want on their own terms. So every single guest, yourself included, really does play a pivotal role in shaping the mindset, providing tools and tips so that people can create that reality. And I'm a big believer you can create whatever you want for yourself. For those people listening who do believe in themselves. They are going after their dreams. What causes them to still have those stalls, those moments of losing momentum, life. So that's normal.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

I'll give you an example and maybe this is way too much information, but no such thing. I don't know that. So this morning was up all night, you know, I have really bad digestive problems. It runs in the family, this and that. So I'm up all night, you know. Anyways, so getting ready for the podcast is that IBS flare up hits. And I won't describe it because I think people can picture it. They'll never look at me in the same way again, probably. But couldn't leave the house. Can't. It's just, you gotta wait it out. So then I'm rushing and I'm like, oh gosh, now I'm running late. And of course I'm new to Dubai and I'm thinking if you make one wrong exit turn, and then all of a sudden I'm going to be 68 by the time I actually arrive here. So then I'm rushing to the car and these heels, I forgot that they're slippery. So I slip and fall on the slippery parking lot floor, smack my hand, the books go flying everywhere. And my first thought is, my security guard is probably watching right now, mortified. And then I get in the car and then I forget something. So I had to go. Like it was just a gong show. So when I arrived here, I was like, am I my best self? Not really. But that's life. It just. It is what it is and you can't do anything about it. All you can do is do your best. There's going to be some days that you feel on top of the world and other days that you just got to say to yourself, this too shall pass. But on the good days, you got to say, this too shall pass as well. Because you know those moments where you feel like you are invincible? Relish those, because they're going to pass as well. But I think oftentimes in those situations we just think, why me? You know, and it's okay to be angry. Like as a high achiever, it frustrates me just no end that some days I can't do anything. I have to be on the couch. My heart rate goes about 40, 50 beats high. I have to lay down to get my heart rate down that day. That's it. Just. And I am not a positive person in that moment. I don't want to sit here and say to the audience that I'm kumbaya ing it up and all happy about it sucks. That's life. Everyone's got something. This is my thing. You got something. I'm sure with a six month old, I'm sure there are times that you're thinking, I didn't sign up for this. I'm sure when they vomit all over you, but just have it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that life, no, it's true. Visual I like to think about is life as an ebb and flow. And so if it was all positive and highs, those things wouldn't feel that way if we didn't have a point of reference as comparison. What I mean by that is if you didn't have those days where things are stalling or you lose momentum, you wouldn't know what it feels like to have momentum and feel positive and like you've got a big spark of motivation and all of that. So all these days serve a purpose. Even like when I, when I have moments. Like literally what you said this morning gave me a flashback to my first intern job. I was walking out of the lift, my boss was greeting me and I literally dropped my coffee all over the entry to his like apartment where we was like a few of us working. That was literally like the start of my internship. So like you have these moments, but I, the way I like to think of things now is it's like the universe telling me slow down. Like when things like that happen and they're culminating, it's like this is just a nudge for me. I need to now prioritize this season of maybe just like paring it back. Like after this recording block now that I'm doing is done. Nobody's going to be able to access me for a good few days. I'm going to be recalibrating on the couch, like doing not much to tell you the truth. And like these things serve. And I just wanted to ask you that question because I do feel like we, and this is like the inner perfectionist in us all, we have this perception that once you are very self aware and you have dreams that you're chasing and you believe in yourself that you're not going to also have all these other things. I think what the difference is though, you do have those things, but the story you tell yourself about what they mean and the purpose they serve is very different. And that to me is the key spot on. Between letting those control you or letting them dictate who you are.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

You know, thoughts are not directions. Thoughts are thoughts. You can either listen to those directions or not. And it's Sort of like you can't appreciate the sunny days if there's no rainy days. Probably the worst metaphor here in Dubai, because it's beautiful every single day, pretty much. But that's really it. It's just Sundays are just the way it is.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Just to wrap up, if you had to describe self respect so someone listening can come back to it and think, I have it or I don't, I'm tapping into this, or I'm not. How would you state it?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

So confidence is what gets you into a room. Self respect helps you stand tall when everything goes wrong. Self respect is that ability to say, I'm not the smartest in the room. I'm not the most successful, I'm not the prettiest, I don't have the most followers, but I still deserve to be here. And that is important in every single context of our life, whether it's relationships, business, whether you're pitching for a million dollars or pitching for $10. When you walk into a room and you say, I'm special too. And that is critically important because I think there's a lot of people out there that don't feel special. And I'm here to say, God damn it, you are.

[Podcast Host]

A closing question then, because that's just sparked an idea or I guess a thought for me, which is, when you're a high achiever and you're constantly pushing the level or the boundary or the goal in terms of what you have in your life, you might be leveling up in a position at work, be expanding yourself, challenging yourself, putting yourself forward for new things to walk into rooms where you don't know what's. What the outcome's going to be. And you may be feeling something very common, which a lot of us feel, which is self doubt. Because that new level brings an unknown and fear and biologically, it makes sense to me why we experience that. How do you, in the face of that, still walk in there with the confidence of, I deserve to be here. If there are so many unknown variables, like, do you have any tools for that?

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Constantly tell yourself, why not me? Why couldn't this go right?

[Podcast Host]

Which is probably flipping the opposite thought you've got in your head.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Totally. I'll give you a really short example. So I was in Fiji at a conference, and one of the speakers was announced as Chris Hemsworth, talent agent. And the side note is Chris Hemsworth is my school pass, or hall pass, whatever you call it. So that was like, cool, let me add him. But in all seriousness, I had started a series Called. Well, at the time it was called something different. The point being is, is the whole conference was about going up to the speakers and asking their opinions and asking for their help. It was that kind of conference. So there was this thing in my head saying, oh, I've always been interested in the entertainment industry. Here is one of the top agents of the world. Why shouldn't I go up to talk to him? But the high achiever in me says, you're nobody. You haven't achieved anything. Then the people pleaser inside you says, oh, my God, people like you are so annoying. They're just going to try to get out of the conversation, why not me? So I went up to him. This is a very long story short. We bounced back and forth emails about my episode. We changed it this and that, and on this one email back to him, I was like, well, what do you think about this? Never heard back from him, totally ghosted me. But the point being is I can sit here right now and say, oh, shoulda coulda woulda gone to chat with him and ask him questions. I can actually say to you right now, I actually learned a lot from that. And I went up to him and I don't regret it at all. Nothing, nothing happened from that conversation. But taking risks rarely give you instant results. But doing nothing gives you a life of regrets. So just, why not you? Why not you?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And honestly, the worst thing you can do, the worst thing that can happen, if you ask, is you gain something or you're in the same position so you genuinely have nothing to lose.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Yep. Or you see something really stupid, you screw it up, which could happen. I think that's so important to say that you mumble the words and you're mortified and they're like looking at you funny. And guess what? You're probably not going to do that again. In regards to. Maybe you'll prepare a bit more. You know, we have to think about the spectrum. You know, you'll feel like you're a step behind, but you're not because likely you'll be two steps ahead the next time you do it.

[Podcast Host]

And that's a gain. Right. So you gain something from the situation.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Yes, sorry, that's. Good point, good point.

[Podcast Host]

Well, Katherine, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show today. I'm gonna put a link to your book in the show notes because I think for anyone that's really loved this episode, of course they're gonna resonate with everything that you write about. And it's a beautiful tool that you've kindly gifted to me. I cannot wait to read it myself. Congratulations on the launch as well.

[Dr. Catherine Isco]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

And I'm very grateful for your time to come and chat with me today. I'm very much looking forward to staying connected and continuing to learn from you. So I really appreciate you coming on the show today. Thank you so much.