A (2:16)

I'm so excited and I feel very honored that this was a yes for you. We were just talking about, you know, business and being a mom and doing all the things you're in between, like, five continents at the moment. So I'm really, really grateful that you've carved out some time to chat with me today. Thank you so much.

B (2:32)

Thank you. And thanks, honestly, for having these kinds of conversations. I think it's really important, and I think when you become a mom, you start to really figure out what conversations you want to have and how you want to shape those. So I'm excited to chat.

A (2:44)

Me too. I think your story as well is going to inspire a lot of people. I'm. I have a million and one question, so let's just get into it. I think where I want to start is take me back to Brooke. When you were a lot younger, what did you want to be when you wanted to grow up?

B (3:01)

Oh, good question. So I was born and raised in Tasmania. That's home for me. Home, home. And I, you know, had a very, like, kind of normal. I guess normal is subjective, but normal. Aussie upbringing in suburbia, went to public school. I was always a very inquisitive kid. Like, I always wanted to do lots of different sports and try different things. And it came to the point where my parents were like, okay, you can do this sport, but you have to commit to the whole season because, like, you can't keep bouncing around. So I did, like, tennis dancing, softball, basketball. Like, I tried a bit of everything. And then I think that kind of extended into adult life. I just like trying new things and doing new things and experiencing new things. But in terms of what I wanted to be when I was younger, I would say a dancer or like, I was a bit of theater kid. So I grew up playing, playing piano, singing, dancing. Like, I loved theater and I loved kind of becoming like a character on stage. I find that just so fascinating. I think that's why I love movies so much, because it's like that form of escapism. And then as I got older, I did go to university and I started in arts law. So probably similar to you, you did a law degree. Did you do it with media? With media. So I did political science and law. Two years in, I was like, this is not for me. I'm not going to become a lawyer. So maybe my time is better used elsewhere. So I finished up my third year of political science, and then I went traveling for what was supposed to be a gap year after uni, before I figured out kind of what was next. And then for the next 10 years, I traveled the world, which a lot of people don't know about me. Yeah. As a travel blogger. Okay, so that's kind of the. The crux. But I thought, I guess I thought that I would be a singer, dancer, like music, I don't know, something in the theater kind of side of things.

A (4:58)

Yeah. Well, you know what's interesting? I'm kind of hearing you, like, the idea of like, of performing. Right. And like putting on a performance. It's not so different to like, what you've done with your social media. Right. Like, you're not necessarily. You're playing into a character that's not you, but it is kind of an element of that that you are doing in.

B (5:15)

Yeah. And it's connecting with the audience. Like, that's what I love. I am a bit of a lone ranger, I think, in life. Like, I quite like to kind of dance to the beat of my own drum. And I. When I traveled for 10 years, I traveled by myself pretty much the whole time. All of my 20s, I was by myself, living out of a suitcase. And I loved it. But my way to connect with people was online. So I was sharing these photos and stories of, like, what I was doing around the world. And I wasn't doing it for any other reason than I wouldn't. Than I wanted to connect with people. Like, I wanted to feel that kind of like social media is social.

A (5:49)

Yeah.

B (5:49)

And so I wanted to connect with people. But also I found myself in this position of like, I'm a woman traveling by myself. And people found that admirable. At the time, I don't think there was like, it was before, like, travel influences is a massive thing now. There's a whole industry around it. But at the time, it was just really new and fresh and people were like, wow, like, you're traveling the world by yourself. And so I wanted to become an advocate for women to be like, you can do that. Like, of course you can travel the world by yourself. And there's certain things that you do and don't do and places that you might go and not go. And I just wanted to encourage people that it's possible if you wanted to do it. And so what I've noticed in my life as I've progressed in my career and keeping trying new things and different things that I'm interested in. Obviously baking is the next phase of that. And I did it so much growing up as a kid that that was just kind of the next thing that I loved as much as traveling. What I've noticed is that theme has carried on is I just want to connect with people and encourage especially women that you can do it and you should do it. And I guess later in life that's become owning a business, figuring out what you're passionate about and chasing that and just kind of challenging the status quo.

A (7:04)

Well, your story definitely inspires that energy. Before we dive, get to the part where you, you know, chose baking.

B (7:13)

Yeah.

A (7:13)

Open the bakery, no doubt. Ten years of traveling, you would have had a lot of happy accidents, moments you were. That just felt like they were meant to be or like crazy stories. Can you share some of the most admirable moments or maybe one of. From the 10 years you were traveling?

B (7:27)

Yeah, I think, gosh, it actually feels like another lifetime. Like, thinking back to that, because I had a whole career before opening a bakery and opening a business and being a business owner. I think probably the main thing that sticks in my head when I think about solo travel and traveling for so long was that I really, really got to know myself. Like, I really know who I am, who I'm not, what I stand for, what I don't. I feel a lot more confidence now as I've gotten older and spent that time alone, because I have really listened to myself. And I think that's important in your 20s. And it doesn't necessarily have to be that you travel the world solo or you do it for 10 years. It's quite a long time. But just to spend that time getting to know yourself. Because as a teenager growing up in school, and I don't know if it's. I think it's quite universal, but I found that I really struggled to figure out who I was and who I wanted to be. I think growing up in Tasmania and in a small town, like, there's. You're kind of not exposed to as much. And so I really just wanted to go out, see the world, understand the world outside of the island that I grew up in, like, that's a thing. And go and meet people, understand their culture, their race, their religion, like, everything about people, and kind of make up my mind for myself because I think it is quite deep for me. Right. Like, I went to travel because I really wanted to immerse myself into these cultures and understand them better. And I think doing that for so long by yourself, you really get to know yourself, but you also really get to know, like, what you stand for, what you would speak up for in a conversation more so than you would if. If you didn't just go and spend that time experiencing it for yourself.

A (9:16)

Well, when you think about the experience of, say, your life up until 18, you're in school, you're you know, if you're raised by your two parents, they're a big influence, School's a big influence. Peers are a big influence. It's very rare that you have. Nor are we taught to carve out space and time to actually connect with ourselves. And I think there was a lot of lingering lack for me from that experience and why I sort of started this show as well, because it was a space for me to dive in and understand and question and connect with other people and hear stories and really expand my perspective. So I can totally relate to why that was attractive to you. But I don't blame, like, our upbringing that we've never had that opportunity, because you just don't. You're not taught how to do that.

B (9:59)

Right.

A (10:00)

Is there any standout moments from those 10 years you can share with us or, like, culture you really loved? Like, just anything?

B (10:05)

Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, probably the place that surprised me the most, because people always ask me this. They're like, okay, you visit, like, I think it's 86 countries that I've visited. People always say to me, what is your favorite place? And have a different place for different things. But the place that surprised me the most and I think what has shaped me as an individual and as a human being, as I kind of go through life, I want to see places and understand people for myself, not what you read on the Internet or kind of what you're fed, particularly in Western media. The place that surprised me the most was Pakistan.

A (10:38)

Okay.

B (10:38)

So I think even when I said, I'm going to Pakistan, a lot of people were quite judgmental of that. And they were kind of like, why? And the whole invitation was from. Because I was working for 10 years, so I would get invited to different places by, say, tourism boards. In this case, it was actually a Pakistani guy who was a businessman, and he invited a bunch of YouTube, like, influencer kind of people. And I think I was the only blogger because I was, like, more writing on the Internet and sharing photos and that kind of stuff. And we were invited to just go and see it for ourselves. There was no. There were no deliverables. There was nothing you had to do or say about it. It was just come and experience it and see for yourself and then share what you want to share. And everyone on that trip, like, people from around the world. One of the people on the trip was Lexi Limitless, I think her name is. She is the youngest person to travel to every country in the world. And even she was surprised by what it was like. So it was just this opportunity to. To go to a place that people have preconceived notions of or perceptions of and see for yourself what it is actually like. What is it like? First of all, it's stunning. Like, just landscape wise, it's absolutely beautiful. I love hiking. I love going outdoors and being in nature. And we hiked to the base of Nanga Parbat, which is one of the mountains there, and it's called Fairy Meadows. And it's this really big H right on the border. It was just, I mean, stunning. And there's hardly any people there, so you really have it all to yourself. Very hospitable people, very welcoming. Quite often I find that when you're traveling to places where people don't have much to offer you, they'll offer you everything they can. And so we found ourselves in a landslide. And people start coming out of like fully in the middle of nowhere. Coming out of it feels like out of the mountain because these, they're really like living in much different conditions than we do. And in the middle of nowhere. And they were coming out and offering us potatoes, I remember, you know, bottled water, like anything that they could, and they didn't want anything in return. So I just found that the experience I had there was just so different to what even my closest friends and family thought when I said I'm going there. So I found that a really, really grounding experience and has kind of shaped the way that I view the world is if you read about something online, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's true and it's up to you as an individual to go and seek it out for yourself. And that doesn't have to mean that everyone goes to places that they maybe never saw themselves going. But just to kind of view things through the lens of, well, what is real and what is not, and maybe where your own responsibility lies to go and seek that information out for yourself.

A (13:24)

I think that onus is more important now than ever. Where there's so much online and there's so much that's also not real online, and it's becoming less transparent to tell what's real and not. And I think, I don't know if this is an age thing or a happenstance of things that have happened over the last few years, But I do feel like when certain things happen, it could even be within manipulation of the financial markets by big players in the space. And you see things, you know, someone says, oh, for example, right. This is just something I've noticed. You know, someone will say Something bad about Bitcoin will tank the price and then that same company will bulk purchase those shares the next day. When you understand the media is a tool for, that's agenda driven, it's privately controlled, all these things, you know, you just start to maybe take a step back and go, okay, whether it's a person, whether it's an asset, whether it's a country, it's so important to educate yourself. And I think it's, it's really good for personal growth to challenge yourself on certain perceptions you have. Like even the way people live their life, right? I always say whenever you have judgment or you have those. What's the word? Like, not necessarily a trigger, but you just have like literally a judgment on something. It's, it's an interesting moment of curiosity, like, okay, why do I have such a strong belief about that? Especially if it's something like I know nothing about, like, it's just an interesting opportunity. But that's really cool that like your traveling gave you the experience to become very grounded and confident in yourself, which no doubt plays a big role in, you know, the rest of your journey, which we're probably about to go into now. But that's, that's really cool. You had that 10 year period. Now I know you're listening to this podcast because you're building a life with intention. So it makes sense that the everyday things you rely on should be built with intention too. I know this might sound small, but I've always been really fussy with the socks I have, especially ankle socks. If they're too high, they look awkward. If they're too low, they're really uncomfortable. I've recently been using Cozy Earths essential socks and they're soft, breathable and cushioned. And honestly, they make such a difference to my walk, workout, day at work, sleep, sleep, or just lounging around at home. I'm basically in socks most of the day. And if you are too, trust me when I say that intentionally updating such an everyday essential, especially one that's been built with intention, like the Cozy Earth ones have, completely will elevate your everyday life. Plus, there are heaps of options to choose from. Cozy Earth has calf, quarter, ankle and no show, so you can pick the ones that suit you best. For me, these ankle socks are probably my favorite ones I've ever tried. An everyday essential where quiet comfort meets intentional design. You can try them for yourself with a completely risk free purchase at. Cozy Earth has easy returns. Head to cozyearth.com and use my code. Erica. That's E R I K A for up to 20% off. And if you get a post purchase survey, be sure to mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Experience the craft behind the comfort and make every day feel intentional. Thank you to Cozy Earth for sponsoring today's show. Now let's get back into the episode. I'm interested to know, you know, you travel for 10 years solo. What decision did you have to make to actually like, put boots on the ground. Stop. Yeah. In Brisbane. Because, you know, it's even, even something like I live overseas and I think about the decision of, you know, even when do we go back to Australia? It's such a life changing moment. It's such a different pace. It's such a different experience. How did you feel when you made that decision? Did you feel like you made the wrong decision? Did it take you a long time to make that decision? Like, walk me through that.

B (16:49)

Yeah, I think I had probably a good few years towards the end of my travel blogging career where I kind of toyed with it and I wasn't really sure what I wanted. It's quite interesting actually, like kind of laying it out for people and looking back at how it happened. First of all, Covert happened, so that was a big player in why I moved home permanently. But what actually happened was, I think it was, it was 2016, so I, I was in a relationship at the time and kind of the, the conversation that was had was like, well, you're never really here for any of the weddings that we get invited to or the big major moments in life. Like, you're always kind of like flying in, flying out for these different jobs. And, you know, it's kind of like either you want to have a life here or you want to have a life overseas. And I was kind of at that point already. Like, I'd seen and done so much. And I also kind of feel like I don't want to see and do everything and then feel like there's nothing left for me. Like, I want to go traveling with my kids, I want to go traveling with my husband. I want to live a really long and happy life. And you don't ever want to feel like there's nothing left. Like you've kind of done it.

A (17:53)

You weren't in a rush.

B (17:54)

No, and I was. And I did so much, like so much in that time and so many times you could be in a place and you felt like you got like a small chunk of it, like you didn't get enough of it and you didn't like you only scratched the surface. And so I just kind of started to feel this, I guess, kind of pull back home for multiple reasons. And I did want to feel like somewhere was home because I'm someone who, as much as I like to do my own thing and be a lone wolf, I'm very family orientated. I have very close friends. I don't have a lot of friends, but the friends I have, we are so close. And a lot of them I grew up with in Tasmania. So I really wanted to, like, feel like I had community again. And I found it through social media and I really felt like I had an online community. But something that naturally happens. The bigger that that community grows, the more people you become more polarizing for people because the more people that love you or love what you're building or love your brand or love your story, the more people don't. And so that noise can get quite a bit louder as you go on. And so I really just felt like I just wanted to be around my mom and I wanted to be around my family and just, you know, the people who know me and know who I am. Because online people have, like a perception of who you are and it's partly because of what you show them, but it's also because of their own beliefs and like, how they filter that information for themselves. And so I just really wanted to, like, feel grounded again. So I went home and I actually opened a dessert shop in Tasmania that not a lot of people know about, but that was in 2016, and I opened it with absolutely no experience in hospitality whatsoever.

A (19:32)

Why did you. Why did you pick dessert? Like, why did you go straight into that?

B (19:34)

That's also a good question. So I love desserts. I'm a massive sweet tooth.

A (19:39)

Same.

B (19:39)

Yeah.

A (19:39)

I don't know if I'd open a dessert shop. So interested to know.

B (19:42)

I think what it is is like, I love a challenge. I love being my own boss. And I had traveled the world for not that full 10 years because I came home and I was kind of juggling the two for the last bit. But I had had this experience of suddenly being your own boss and not answering to anyone. And everyone always says, oh, it must be so n work when you want to work. And I'm like, it's actually the opposite of that because you can always work until you have kids. That's a different story.

A (20:10)

Then you got two bosses.

B (20:11)

Yes, exactly. But I felt like, okay, I work really hard. I love probably more than anything creating a community. Like people who have a shared Interest. And for me, it was travel all through my 20s. But the other thing is that I noticed was, well, if I come home, what am I going to do? The one thing that I did when I traveled was always seek out the best bakeries. Like, I'd always Google now it would be chat GPT, but where are the best bakeries in New York? Where are the best bakeries in Paris? So as I was traveling, I was seeing and experiencing and eating so much. And then when I would be in Paris, I would take a macaron class to learn how to make macarons. So I was just so into it already that when I was like, okay, if I'm going home, what am I going to do? I'm going to open a bakery. That was just top of mind for me. I barely had to think about it.

A (20:58)

Cool.

B (20:59)

And I kind of think it comes back to, I grew up watching Gilmore Girls, and I always wanted to be Luke with Luke Steiner. So I always pictured, like, that's the dream. Like, you live above your business, you come down, you do the work, and then you go back upstairs. And what I actually did is bought the apartment above my bakery in Tasmania. Yeah.

A (21:15)

Amazing.

B (21:16)

Yeah. It was like a little studio. Yeah.

A (21:18)

And so you had that for how long?

B (21:20)

Three and a half years. And then I actually sold it to my mom because my mom came and worked for me as the manager because I was traveling in and out, and I was kind of torn between the two. She came over and she had 20 years experience working in a hotel before. Just the one hotel, same job for 20 years. It was a big deal for her, and it's a big deal for our relationship. Because hospitality is stressful.

A (21:40)

Yes.

B (21:40)

It's high stakes. And that dessert restaurant was like an order, like a menu that you would order from. Whereas in the bakery, you do a lot of your prep work before you open the doors. So I find it a lot less stressful. And that was kind of one of the non negotiables for me is when I went back into owning a business, if I'm gonna do this, because I missed it so much, but I'd sold it to my parents. It's not like I could do anything about it. If I'm gonna do this, there's things I'm gonna change that I did the first time that I don't want to do again. So I wanted to have less stress, like an environment that felt like I was doing it more for the joy of baking and what I love doing. I didn't have a phone Number like, we haven't had a landline for Brookie since we opened because I found that very distracting because people would call up and want to order a cake. And it's like, you know, we have a website for that, and if you order online, there's no chance that it can go wrong because you have to select the colors that you want, exactly what you want. Whereas if you take an order over the phone, you might perceive something the wrong way. Or they say, yeah, so. So it's just easier to do that. So those sort of things that I said the second time around, I'm going to make it much more enjoyable because I did find it very stressful the first time owning a business. I was also in my early 20s, very different to now. I'm in my early 30s. So, yeah, I had that first dessert restaurant, and then once I had sold that, I missed it so much. I went overseas again, kind of still toeing the line of what's next for me. And then I came back during COVID and then I met my now husband probably three weeks after I got back from overseas. And he had moved from overseas as well. He was living in New Zealand. And we both came back to Tassie because of COVID and we met each other and I was like, this is really unfortunate timing. Like, I really don't want a boyfriend right now. But he was just everything. Like, we just are on a level together. We call it our frequency. Like, we're tuned into the same radio station.

A (23:35)

That's so important. How did you guys meet? Can you tell us the story?

B (23:38)

So funny. So he's actually five years younger than me, and so I hadn't ever met him before, even though we're both from Tasmania and we live like 10, 20 minutes apart. I was like, friends with his sisters growing up. They're in the same age, but different schools, so same. We knew of each other and then became better friends with one of his sisters as we got a bit older. And her and her mom were kind of like, setting it up behind the scenes and set up this dinner. And we met and I was. It really was like the last thing I wanted. And my mom has said to me since the end of time, it'll happen when you least expect it. And so then I come back to Tasmania after 10 years traveling and meet my now husband there. It's just. It was where I least expected it and when I least expected it.

A (24:22)

Wow.

B (24:22)

Yeah.

A (24:23)

And so you've met him how. How long until then? You open up in Fortitude Valley.

B (24:28)

Okay. So when I met him, I was just back in Tasmania trying to figure out what was next. We stayed in Tasmania for a year, but we both kind of felt like we'd left and experienced so much living outside of Tasmania, specifically because it is like a small community. Where I grew up, there's a hundred thousand people in the city that we live, so everyone kind of knows everyone. And that's amazing because it really creates a big sense of community. But as you get a bit older, you kind of realize, well, if I do want to have these big ambitions and go and create something bigger than myself, I probably can't do that here in my category, which was bakery and sweets. So we moved to Brisbane after a year of being in a relationship. Still not engaged, nothing. We moved with our sausage dog, Frankie. The three of us drove up the east coast and we settled in Brisbane because I felt like it was a really good opportunity because we kind of couldn't afford Melbourne or Sydney and Brisbane was still kind of up and coming. Now it's changed so much in the last few years since we've been living, especially that area. Yeah. So it's changed a lot. But when we moved up there, the prices, the house prices were fairly on par with Tasmania because during COVID they actually lifted quite a lot in Tasmania because people kind of went out of the major cities to where they kind of had more of a lifestyle. So, yeah, we moved to Brisbane, settled there, and just never looked back. He had like a landscaping business, so he would literally be going out each day mowing lawns and making people's gardens. I'd be going to my bakery each day and then we'd come home. And I think it worked so well because we were both working on our own passions and our own projects, and we were both happy to work 12 to 15 hours a day. And then we were happy to come back together at the end of it. But I don't think it would have worked if. If I wasn't in a relationship where someone was also working on their own thing because I was spending so much time at the bakery when we first opened. The first year I was not there for less than 15 hours a day.

A (26:20)

Wow. And at what point did it turn for you from being. This is my dream, it's my local bakery to like, wow, this is. This is something that's really gonna snowball. Like, it's really growing bigger than what I envisioned.

B (26:35)

Yeah. So it was eight months into business. I opened May 2022. And by the end of that year, I basically. It was myself and one other casual staff member. And she got sick. She actually had Covid. I feel like I've said that word so many times today. But she did this. It's. It builds that timeline for people, right? And she got sick, and she was away for six weeks. I was by myself in the bakery. That is a long time to be by yourself. And I think because when I was traveling, I had a focus. Every day I would go out, I would take photos, I would write stories. I was like, they're feeling like I had a purpose of. I'm going to go back home and I'm going to write this story and show people why they should travel here in Paris and what they should do. And so I think naturally, I was like, well, what's my purpose? Like now I'm just, you know, it wasn't very busy. We. Maybe some days I would do 300 in an entire day. And so I wasn't paying myself a wage for those first eight months. I was paying the staff member the rent, all of the expenses. I'm someone who loves quality. Every, like, pastry chef baker loves, like, the best of the best ingredients. Like, you want the best chocolate, the best sea salt. And so I wasn't really making money. And what I realized is I'd have to start making money if I was going to do it long term. So I, at the time, downloaded TikTok, because everyone was saying, like, just get on TikTok. And I was kind of like, I don't know, like, I'm a little bit old for that. It's not my platform. You know, back a few years ago, not everyone was on it, Whereas now it's so much more streamlined and this. It's so multifaceted. Like, I genuinely love social media. It's so cool, and we can connect with people all around the world. But I got on there, and what I gravitated towards was content, where it was these private chefs. Like, a day in my life as a private chef in the Hamptons, a day in my life as a private chef in Los Angeles. And I was just, like, loving what I was consuming. And I felt like I had this, like, insight. Yeah, insight into someone else's world. And I literally just thought, well, why don't I do a day in my life as a bakery owner? Like, that's what I like watching. Why don't I just recreate that? And it's going to be different because it's my world, and it's different to, you know, the Hamptons or Los Angeles. And I'M a business owner and like, maybe people will find that interesting. And so before that, I think I put up two posts which were like, product focused and it was literally just me zooming in on like a cupcake box or something, you know, like, not really knowing how the app works and also probably not even understanding how much I knew about marketing at the time. And so I was kind of reverting back to putting the product first. And that's not what people want. People want to connect with your story, with who you are, with the process. And so from that first day in my life as a bakery owner video, I want to say it was only one to two weeks before people were coming in from not so far away places, like maybe Logan or it wasn't that long until we had someone from Sydney or Melbourne, because a lot of people come to Queensland as a holiday destination each year.

A (29:31)

Yeah.

B (29:32)

And they were coming in and saying, I saw your video and I wanted to support you. And I just thought that was the coolest thing.

A (29:36)

Wow.

B (29:37)

So I just kept going and going and going. And at one point I was posting these videos every single day without fail. And then what happens, ironically, is you get too busy to make the videos, but the videos were what made you popular. So then you're trying to keep up with both, but you're also trying to scale a business. You need more team members, you need a bigger space. We had to get a production kitchen. So it just starts happening and snowballing because you just genuinely showed up and did what you loved and people wanted to be a part of that. And I think that's what's so cool about building a community, not building a business.

A (30:11)

Yeah. Do you think that posting on TikTok was a one decision that changed the trajectory of your business 100%?

B (30:17)

And I think what I try and always think of with that, because I was such an advocate early days for the positive side of social media because of what it can do for businesses and it really can do so much for small businesses and small business owners. And as, you know, time has progressed and time has gone on and that audience has gotten bigger as we've become more successful. Like that noise does kind of, you know, come up a little bit more and you start to see the negative side of that. But I always have to remind myself, but there's so many positives and you're creating for the people who love what you're doing. You're not creating for the people who don't like what you're doing. So just stay focused. On those people, because they're the people who are supporting you. They're building it with you. And I always like to say, you know, a lot of business owners will say, well, our community, we want them to feel a part of the brand. I want the community to feel like they are the brand. So every single decision, I'm not joking. You'll see it on our stories, on everything. I'm like, what flavor should we do next? What product should we do next? Where should we open a store next? And although I can't roll out stores really quickly because these things take a lot of time. Leases, negotiations, licenses, different countries, all these things, I can launch a new cookie flavor quite quickly. So over the last few years, what I've focused on is whatever people want in the bakery will bring it to them. And it doesn't always happen overnight. But I want people to feel like they are the brand and they're building the brand with me because I just think that there's. That's when the magic happens, and that's when I feel good about myself and why I'm doing it.

A (31:44)

Yeah, that's really nice when you. I think there's been a shift generally in the way businesses show up. It's not so much like. Like, sales first is very much community first. And I feel like they have to. They have to be genuine in the way they show up, which I think is a really nice way that society has shifted and the role social media has played in breaking down that access. Right. Because now people can actually comment and DM you, and you probably read a lot of those just like I do on the episodes as well. So it's a really nice barrier that's been broken down that makes things feel, like, a lot more collaborative. What was your actual goal when you. When you opened the first bakery? Like, what. What did you. What was like the epitome of I'm opening this bakery in Fortitude Valley? Like, what. Where did you see yourself? What was the dream?

B (32:28)

To be honest with you, it was Luke Steiner, Gilmore Girls. Like, I just wanted to do what I love every day. I am someone who. I'm very emotions driven in the sense of, like, if I want to do something, I'll do it. And I don't really ask too many questions of myself. I don't really have. One thing I find interesting about myself is I don't really have any part of me that says, but what if this happens? Like, there's no fear there of it not working out. And I don't know what that is. But it's something that I have where I do not fear something not working out. Like, we just signed a major lease. I can't say where, but a major lease in a different country outside of Australia, and it is so expensive. And. And not one part of me said, let's run a feasibility analysis. My response was, this is amazing. What an opportunity. Let's do it. I'll make it work. And I think that's something that people have or they don't have. But I genuinely think if I think back to me, like younger me, I didn't always have it. So I think you can get there, and I think you can build that and work on that and become more that person. And when I kind of summarize everything that's happened in my life, I think I built that through spending so much time with myself, that belief of I can do it. Because you find yourself on a train heading to Budapest, but you're supposed to be going to Prague, you're going in the completely wrong direction, and you kind of just stand there and think, well, what's the worst that happens? Like, now I'm going to a different country, and how exciting is that? And you just develop. What I developed through travel was this fearlessness of if this doesn't happen and that happens instead, well, then, what a lesson. What a journey. Like, let's go on that ride. And even when I think about the first business that I had and how that became really, like, too much for me to handle at a young age, and I just miss travel so much in the freedom. And suddenly you're not free. Like, you're there 15 hours a day. You have to show up no matter what happens and what you do and try in life, there's a lesson in it. And something that one of my friends said to me, who lives in New York, and she has this great, like, amazing life. She's built this app. She's awesome. And she said to me, because I was so kind of down on myself that it didn't work out and I didn't stick it out after three and a half years. And like, I kind of said to. I feel like I've wasted the last three and a half years because now I'm just going to go back to traveling or I don't really know what's next. And she did say to me at the time, well, think about all the IP that you've built over that time, all the lessons you've learned, everything that you've learned in business, owning a business. And it's so funny because it would come in handy years down the line when I decided I wanted to open another business. And second time around, it's like, you'll see when you have a second baby. It's so much easier once you've done it. Once you kind of go, well, hang on a second. I know what to do. I know that there's different types of cries that they have and you just, you just. It's easier the second time around. So I'm really glad that I did that. And that was a lesson in building me to where I got with Brookie.

A (35:25)

Do you know what? I love to. It's almost like what you Learned in your 10 years of both that first business, but. But more so traveling. Right. And getting to know yourself. And I really think this is a superpower. The internal work we do, like, that's not stuff they're going to teach you in business school. And I'm not discarding the value of doing a business degree or doing business school or anything like that, but lived experience and self work, self growth is so important because I think there's so many things that are teachable and these are one of the things we have to learn ourselves and, and cultivate ourselves. Like, I can't teach you how to be resilient. I can't te how to have a stronger mindset. Like, I can tell you what to do, but you have to go and do the work yourself.

B (36:06)

Yeah.

A (36:07)

You know, and so it's quite cool that what doesn't really seem like prep for where you are now actually in your story, when you look back, the 10 years of traveling really built the person that you needed to be to step into this. Now success and growth that you've experienced, which I think is phenomenal, you built, you know, resilience and you got to know yourself 10 years traveling, but then going from like local to global is like a whole nother step. I'd really love to go DP with you on the mindset upgrade like you had to go through. You said like, you don't. You didn't really feel fear. So did you never come across things like self doubt or imposter syndrome or you did at different levels? I just want to frame this question in the way what I've found is like, I have quite a strong self belief. I feel like I'm quite confident. But that's something I've built over the years too. But still, when I'm trying something new or pushing myself to that next level, I do kind of feel that Fear creep up. Not in a debilitating way, but more like a. I just say it's like the biological brain going, oh, we're out of our comfort zone. But then you just, like, push through it anyway. Right when you were evolving, you know, to the next thing. More followers, more partnerships, more stores, global. Walk me through some of the things you struggled with that you had to actually workshop or work on yourself.

B (37:24)

Yeah, it's interesting because I really mean it when I say I don't have that fear.

A (37:28)

I think it's just a superpower that needs to be studied.

B (37:30)

Yeah. Honestly, you know, what it is, is, like, I feel like growing up in Australia, we won the Global Lottery. Like, we're so lucky where we are, and we have, like, so much available to us. And. And it's amazing. But in terms of, like, where I kind of came from and what I grew up with, like, I grew up in a suburban part of a small city. My parents still have a mortgage on their little house they grew up on, like, in the. It's called the northwest coast of Tasmania. So it's like, very much like the end of. It feels like the end of the world, but it's small, like rural kind of community. So kind of coming from, like, a small town, small community. My parents have always said to me, we don't mind what you do in life if you want to. If you end up pumping gas at a gas station, that makes you happy. That makes you happy. That's great. Like, they have always said that, and they've always said, you can't bury yourself in your money. So they have this mindset of just completely enjoying their lives. Like, my parents, they are out, like, right now. They have a caravan. So they're like, caravanning. That's their current phase. But they like cruising, so they like going on cruise ship. They're just enjoying their life. Like, they don't. They have this mindset of, like, money comes and goes as it flows through. Like, enjoy it as you go along. Because if you get to the end of your life and you haven't enjoyed it, like, who wants to be climbing Mount Kilimanjaro? And you. You know, one of your legs is not working well. Like, they're just. And they're not climbing Mount Kilimanjaro. They're going to, like, the Gold coast and Melbourne and, you know. But I think because I grew up with this, I just never had an attachment to money. I don't think in the way that I felt like I needed it to be happy and I still don't feel like I need it to be happy. It certainly is. You know, you can enjoy so much more of your life when you have more financial freedom. I'm not discarding that. But there's so much that you can do in your life that you don't need that. So I just think I've never had that massive, like, want, or. Or like, maybe aligning success with financial

A (39:35)

success, that wasn't the outcome for you.

B (39:37)

No. Success for me is like leaving a legacy. Like. Like something of purpose, of meaning. And what it has become for me, through travel, blogging, and then later through Brookie, is connecting with people, and more specifically women, to encourage them to live their dreams and to do whatever it is you're passionate about. First of all, find out what that is. Second of all, that might change throughout your lifetime. We are multifaceted. I'm not forever going to be traveling the world with a suitcase. And, you know, I want to also be a mom. I want to have a family. I want to do all these things, and it's okay to do those things in tandem. You don't have to be a career woman. And then later, maybe you become a mom or become a. Becoming a mom doesn't necessarily mean you can't also have a career, and there's a world in which you can do the two together. It's really hard. I'm sure, you know, it is really hard, but it makes it so much more worth it. So I guess to answer your question, I just. I really am just living this very enjoyable existence of. I love getting out of bed every day. I love going to work. I love baking. I love creating recipes. I love creating products that people enjoy. I'm in my happiest sense of self. And then naturally, it has become bigger than me, and it has scale because so many people love being a part of that, too.

A (40:58)

The way you feel today when you wake up doing what you do, is it the same as the first day you opened the bakery?

B (41:04)

It's different because I have kids now, and so I think as a mum, just your mom intuition just changes. So it does feel different, but I don't love it any less. I love it more.

A (41:17)

So the love is the same, if not greater, right?

B (41:19)

1,000% greater.

A (41:20)

And I think this is important because no matter what you're starting, whatever phase in life you are, and you're listening, whether it's, you know, day one of your first job, of your podcast, of your side hustle, of a hobby, of pushing yourself to do one social thing a week. Like, I think going into something with the genuine intention and like a genuine. I'm not saying you may not be like a little bit scared or fearful doing something new, but like a genuine, like, I really am excited to do this. Like, that carries through and I feel like the things that have longevity that you're able to stick to, that you're able to commit to, because you know, you see things, you feel like they're an overnight success, but there's so much groundwork that goes into building of the person that made it to that point. Like to actually maintain that effort and that discipline long term, you have to have a genuineness about why you're doing what you're doing. So that's why I love your story. I feel like the woman I'm sitting with today, the intention and the drive and the passion you're bringing to it, the why you're doing it. Of course, you've got kids now, so that's expanded and looks a bit different, but it, it's only been built from that foundation. Okay, you guys know how important hydration is to me. It's one of my non negotiables and I talk about it all the time on the podcast. That's why I was so shocked to find out that three out of four US homes have toxic chemicals in their tap water. What's freaky is that even though contaminated water looks clear, it could still put you at risk for devastating health concerns, which include fatigue, hormone disruption, cognitive decline, and even cancer. I was so shocked to learn that standard fridge and pitcher filters do very little to remove most of these contaminants. And as we all know, most bottled water contains microplastics. So what is the solution? Well, I want to introduce you guys to Aquatru, the countertop water purifier. Tested and certified to remove 84 contaminants, which include chlorine, lead, forever chemicals and microplastics. It's got a four stage patented reverse osmosis system that goes way beyond ordinary filters for pure, healthy water you can trust for you and your family. What's great is there's no plumbing and no installation. Aquatrue has been featured in Business Insider, Popular Science and named best countertop water filter by Good housekeeping. To join 98% of customers, which includes myself, that say their drinking water is cleaner, safer and healthier. Go to aquatrue.com now for 20% off your purifier using the promo code Erica Aqua True even comes with a 30 day best tasting water guarantee or your money back. That's AquaTrue.com a Q U a T-R-U.com using promo code E-R-I-K-A. Thank you to Aquatrue for sponsoring today's show. Now let's get back into today's episode. Episode. If we dive a little bit deeper into this mum and work.

B (43:54)

Yeah.

A (43:55)

Thing. I definitely feel there is this tension in this narrative of having to choose. It was something I. I really had to think about too. As I was just telling you before we started recording, I was in. In the corporate world before, and I would look at superiors of mine, who was very successful. They were partners of these big law firms. They had kids, but they would miss things all the time and they wouldn't see them. And. And I'm not saying that's wrong or right, but when I looked at that objectively, I just felt like that wasn't what I wanted. I. I wasn't that in love with the law and my job that I wanted it to come at the cost of. Of me not being there for my kids. So I really had to take a step back and think, how can I do it both right? For me, it was never a question of having to choose, but now that I am a mom and I'm still working as a lawyer, I've still got this podcast. It has been a bit difficult for me in this transition. You know, I'm seven months into my journey. For me, what's been difficult is physically, when I'm working, I'm not being a mom, right? And when I'm physically being a mum, I'm not working. It's been this realization, okay, I can't do them both at the same time, but they can coexist. If I bring a level of intention, I'm just present in what I'm doing. So I'm kind of navigating now. Like, just that intention of, okay, right now I'm gonna do two hours of deep work. I know I'm not with my daughter, but, like, she's fine. You know, she's sleeping or she's with dad or whatever it is. And I'm just gonna allow myself to be in this part. You're saying, you know, we're multifaceted. This is the part of me I'm gonna enjoy now. And then when I'm with her, I'm with her. It's made me really intentional. How have you found navigating? You know, obviously you've got, like, a lot more. Your business, I guess, is on a Different scale, you've got staff, you've got constant things in the pipeline, you've got new things coming out, you've probably got, you know, so much in the back end content you're still doing. How have you found the balance of being a mum and, and with your work and if you feel you can do both, what has been some tools that have really helped you manage that?

B (45:45)

Yeah, it's. And it's also, I think having one child was the biggest shift because I've got two now onto two. So I've got a one year old and a four month old and the first one was the biggest shift because I just don't think you have any idea what you're in for and suddenly they're there and you're like, wow, you're really learning in real time and it's super fast, like it goes so quickly. So you also want to enjoy the moment. I think think one of the important things to note is when we first found out we were pregnant, my husband gave up his dream to join mine. So the two of us work on Brookie. So we exist as like CEO and coo. So he's more on the operational side. I'm more of the creative strategy, like building the brand and he makes it happen. He always says, you have the ideas, I make it happen. And so it helps that we work together because then we can also tag team. We do tag team quite a lot. So if I'm fully focused on something, maybe it's a new store opening, he'll have the kids and then we'll swap out. But then there's also childcare. So we live in Brisbane and our all our family lives in Tasmania. So like you, I don't have family around to help out and that's something that we had to sit down and think of is like everything in life is a series of trade offs and for me I was looking at this business that was blowing up online. We had these huge opportunities and then I'm sure we'll talk about it, but investment comes in all these opportunities, like right in front of you. We had the discussion of, well, we want to give our kids a life that we didn't have and we want to give them everything, not everything, but we want to give them the best opportunities, you know, to see the world, to experience it. I didn't travel overseas until I went. The first trip with my dad was when I was 17. And the rule was you save everything and you pay your half of the way, your airfares, your accommodation, everything I'll pay myself to be your chaperone. And that was my first experience of going overseas. But I would love to give those experiences that I've had to my kids at a younger age so they can see the world and see it and understand it, experience it. So we decided that we would join forces, be in the business together, and our priority is giving our kids the best life we can. And for us right now, that's putting the business at the forefront of what we're doing, juggling between the two of us, the parent responsibilities. And you kind of have your, like, hard stops, your hard rules. Weekends are for families. Start of the day, end of the day, like, I'll get my kids up, I'll put them to bed. But then during the day, we had childcare when childcare wasn't working out because my beautiful Colette was very sick all the time, and I work in food. So we then started to look at, well, what are our other options? And so now we have private in home care. So, like a nanny that comes in and looks after the kids. But I think there's such a huge stigma around that. And you kind of fear talking about that as a woman, because for me, I'm doing the best that I can for my kids right now, and I'm spending. And I took, you know, time off when both of them were first born, because there's some things that only a mother can do. I. E. Breastfeeding. So there's the time off, but then there's also, okay, well, how do I transition back into the workforce? And. And a lot of my work is hands on in person. So then my husband would, like, step in and do a lot more of the work. So I'm really lucky that the two of us are working on the same thing and we have the same goals. And then, yeah, just being realistic of, like, we don't have family, we don't have anyone who can help out. So we've got, you know, a casual nanny that comes in for those few days that we're both at work and just, I guess accepting that that is just part of our journey right now. And then as my kids are older, I'll get to spend more time with them later down the line. But I never wanted it to be something that impacts my dreams and my goals for Brookie, because I think too often women do see having children and becoming a mother as something that takes them away from their career, and it certainly changes it. Like, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It changes your whole perspective it changes your sleep patterns. It changes everything. But I don't want it to be defining of everything else that I have, you know, going in my life and everything else I want to achieve, because being a mom is the best thing in the world. But also investing in yourself and your career and what you're passionate about is going to make you a better mom. So I think the two live in tandem, and they complement each other, but you have to figure that out in what works for you. It's not the same for everyone, and I think I always want to blanket it with that and just say, like, whatever works for you, works for you. Don't fear the judgment.

A (50:24)

Yeah. I want to mirror a couple things you said that I think are true for me as well. And again, everyone's experience is different, but I think a big, big caller. And again, I would never want anybody to look at me and say, well, how do you have a podcast and you're still working as a lawyer and you seem to be with your daughter all the time. The truth is, like, my husband also works from home, and we have bought into the same current projects, so we made a big decision when we moved to Dubai. He was actually a chiropractor when we were living in Australia, so he had, like, brick and mortar store. I always wanted to live overseas. I never thought that that would be something possible. But then he was also into, like, trading and investments, and it got to a point where he was like, like, can work for myself at home and sort of make the same, if not more money. And so, you know, he had a massive shift in the way he was working when we moved over. It was like, okay. He, for 12 months, wanted to focus on that. I went and worked at a law firm when we moved here whilst I was doing the podcast. Then we went traveling for a bit, and then we came back and the podcast started to take off. So then it was like a question of, well, what's the most important thing? We always talk about our family like we're a unit. We got to make the decision that's right for us. So if that's. That's closing everything and working on his dream, that's what we're doing. But I think it's so important to have that conversation. But also, I think that's what makes a lot of what I do really possible. And I just want to also be transparent about that, because if my husband wasn't at home with my daughter right now, if she didn't take the bottle, like, you know, if I wasn't able to pump and give her the bottle, especially when she was younger. Like, a lot of these things make it possible and make this work. So you do really have to and meet yourself where you're at and not compare. Like, that's probably the worst thing you can do because, I mean, you've got two, right? So I'm sure whilst you know what to do second time around. Every baby's really different in terms of the way they sleep, what they eat, how they feed. Like, I mean, I've only got one, but I've seen in friends how different every kid can be. And I think it's important to just have these conversations because you don't want somebody who is a full time mom thinking, well, why can't I do that too? You know, I think it's really important. But, but if you can curate your life and you know what you want and you have a really supportive partner, which honestly is like such an important piece of the equation, you can find a way to do it. I find that second step then once you. Okay, I've physically got the logistics down pat, is your own mindset. Mom guilt is such a, such a thing, you know, like, I mean, I'm. When I'm in the podcast, I'm super present, but even when I'm, you know, just down at the gym or doing something, I'm. I feel like I'm always. I saw this reel. It was like the first time you go out without the baby and it's like this overlay of the baby's face. It's like you see it everywhere you're looking. And I definitely do feel that for you, what kind of personal growth have you had to go through to actually arrive at a point where you're doing both?

B (53:05)

I think it's more coming to the terms with like just accepting that my reality looks different to everyone else's. I do find that sometimes people will leave a comment that maybe they didn't think about before they left or maybe they're projecting their own thoughts and insecurities, you know, about being a mom and returning back to work so soon. And it is upsetting, I think. I think whenever anyone has anything negative to say online, we're human. I'm very empathetic. I feel things quite deeply. But I just had to come to terms with the fact that my reality doesn't look the same as anyone else's reality in my circle. And then also just outwardly to, you know, there's 4 million people watching what we do every day. Like that of Course people are going to have opinions and I just respect that. Everyone has their own version of what that looks like. And I think maybe previously, this being my first podcast, I was a bit nervous to talk about those things, quite honestly. And I think the more that we talk about it, the more that we take away that stigma of that it should all look the same because it just looks different for everyone and it's not linear. It changes throughout your life. Like as you said with the podcast taking off, then you start to look at, okay, well I've only got so much time in the day. How do I take away 20% from there to put onto the podcast? Well, maybe something else has to let go for a little bit and maybe you return back to it, maybe you don't. But life is a series of trade offs and you've only got so many hours in the day to do all the things that you need to do. And kids, you don't decide when they need you, they decide when they need you. And as you said, two kids are very different. And my firstborn is very different to my second born. I'm glad they happened in the way they did because my firstborn is, is very busy jumping up the walls, like really active. Whereas my second baby, I feel like, God knew I needed like a chill baby. She's, she's so chill. Her name's Matilda. She's just the most beautiful little chill baby. And you know, she sleeps mostly through the night. Like, yeah, it's completely different. And I think there just is no hard and fast rule as a mom. And I'm so grateful that my husband is in the business with me. Not everyone has that available to them. I do not know. And I, I say this almost daily. I don't know how single moms do it. And so you have to just be, I think, more understanding of other people's scenarios and all the big picture that goes into what, why they are able to do what they do and just not compare yourself. You don't have to be what society says you have to be. And it will change over time. Right now, you know, we're very focused on the business and bringing up two young kids who at the moment they can travel quite freely because they don't have friends, they don't have school. So those sorts of things work in our favor. But if I had five and six and seven year olds, like it would look very different.

A (55:46)

Yeah, you spoke about trade offs. What do you feel like is the biggest trade off you're making right now? Ooh,

B (55:55)

for Me, I often think of time with my parents. I'm super close with my family, I always have been and we're very much a family unit. I've got an older sister, a younger brother and my parents, I think as they get older you start to think like, are they missing out? Not just on time with me, but time with their granddaughters. So I'm probably thinking more down that line of, you know, I actually just we've been in Dubai opening new stores, which is really exciting, but I flew them over to see what that looks like and I flew them out to come and see our current pop up in Abu Dhabi. And they don't travel really outside of the country much.

A (56:35)

That would have been a big.

B (56:36)

They were so excited and they had the best time ever and they got to spend time with the girls. So I think it's more, okay, I can't be back in Tasmania right now or I'm not just a two hour flight away where they can come up and spend the weekend with us. So how can I integrate them into our life, into where it's at right now? That would be the big one. And then, yeah, I think, you know, you don't want to miss out on those young years with your babies as well. So I just try and put in that time of like I'm there when they wake up every morning, I change their nappies, I give them breakfast, I spend that time, then I go off to work and then I come back, we have the night and then we wake up and do it all again tomorrow. But I think it's just really figuring out what works for you and not being so hard on yourself and that can change at any time.

A (57:20)

Well, I do talk about balance, right on the show, the balance theory, that that's really where it all started. And for me it's not this idyllic work life, balance, you know, you've got it all sorted out. For me it's, it's very simply what are your priorities and does your schedule reflect that? And your priorities are not only different, say between you and I, they're different for me. Sometimes daily, sometimes on a weekly basis. Like I'll tell you now, if I have a teething baby, I'm not going to the gym at 7am yeah, it's just not happening. I need to sleep because I need to be rested for that day. So it's very much a shifting thing. I very strongly resonate with the trade off of family. I always say Dubai, for this period in this season of our life offers everything over Australia for me right now, except for family, which is my number one priority. So it's a very difficult pill to swallow. It's one I feel I am missing out on, my daughter's missing out on. But then again, and what I love about you and sort of everything you've shared today so far, it's the reframe, it's the story you tell yourself about what it means. And that's the difference between staying stuck in something and feeling miserable and feeling like a victim. Like life's happening to me and life's happening for me. You know, at the end of the day, I've been, have. We've made a decision to be here. We've had our daughter here. She's spending the first at least year of her life here. What does that mean, you know? Yep. The trade off is family, but similar to you, you know, they've come over and we've been able to spend two to three weeks intensive with them, not just a Tuesday night every week. We're all exhausted from our day at work. So we speak to them every day. It's intentional. They know exactly what's going on in our lives. It looks very different. Yeah. Maybe different to what I would like, but it is the story you tell yourself and just understanding that, that different decisions bring different trade offs. It's not always this perfect move of like, that's the best thing and all boxes are going to be ticked. Like it's important to talk about those things too because it's not, it's never going to feel comfortable making big shifts and changes, you know.

B (59:05)

Yeah. And the more you talk about it, I think as well, the more you kind of reason with yourself. And I think that's probably outside of like having no fear of things going wrong. My other superpower is the power to reframe things and see them in a positive light. And I think I've always had that. And I think that probably comes from my parents. Like, they're very positive people. They're never kind of like they're not critical of anyone around them, least of all themselves. Like, they're just very happy in life. And I think so long as you can reframe that and tell yourself why you're doing something, then you can live in peace with your decisions. And life is a series of decisions and trade offs. So you just have to back yourself 100% no matter what it is you're doing at that time, 100%.

A (59:52)

Your parents sound like amazing role models.

B (59:54)

They're the best. And you know what's funny, they're not entrepreneurial at all. Not.

A (59:58)

But it's a mindset, you know, it's a perspective, a way of looking at the world.

B (60:02)

Yeah. And I think the way that they look at the world is just like, the world is our oyster. Let's go and experience it and enjoy it. And for them, that's cruises and caravanning right now. So, yeah, they're really happy.

A (60:12)

And a bit of Dubai.

B (60:13)

Yeah, love that.

A (60:15)

If you're still watching at this point, it's clear that we care about the same type of content. So make sure you hit that subscribe button, because this channel is made for people just like you who value these types of conversations. And if this topic resonates, make sure you hit that like button. So I know to keep on exploring it on the show. When you build something so big online. Right. You open yourself up to being visible. And of course, that brings with a level of public scrutiny. You know, you were saying before, 60% of people are gonna love what you're doing, and then the other 40% aren't. And I think that's just natural. Right. You know, not. You can't make content for everybody. But I know sometimes your integrity and what you're doing and the way you're doing it can be questioned. And I know this is something you experienced last year. How do you stay confident in yourself when your integrity gets questioned and thrown out publicly?

B (61:03)

Yeah, I think I've come to peace with the terms that on the Internet, people can say whatever they want about you, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. And I think it's hard because as a human being like you, your integrity is everything that you have. So when someone questions that and, you know, when it gets into the comments section and people get quite nasty, you can really take it on board. And I think I did in the initial stages. But I think you really have to, like, sit there and think, well, I am the sum of my actions, not of my words. So in that moment, I chose very deliberately not to react and not to add to this narrative of she says, she said, and, you know, pitting two women against each other, that's not something I ever want to be about, and I've never been about that. So I just have to stand true to who I am in that moment. Everyone around me knows the truth and knows me, and, you know, you can immediately give that response of like, no, but no is a full sentence as well. So I think I learned very publicly who I was in that moment. And you know, your parents are a really good phone call to make to understand, you know, what's going on and kind of the bigger picture of things. But I was very intentional in that moment. I was also three months pregnant in that moment. So I just had to go, you know what the most important thing right now is, is me keeping myself level and healthy and my baby healthy, me protecting my team. I've got over 60 staff members, so anything I say or do affects so many people. So I'm always thinking like, there's a broader picture here and I think you are the sum of your actions, not of your words. So, yeah, I think I've really made peace with that.

A (62:54)

It's interesting, right? Like when you go through life, you often get these opportunities to be who you say you are. I, I have a friend, right. And she's been like, you know, I've been manifesting this type of relationship because I want to be this kind of partner. And it's like she had someone come into her life and it was like, well, you've now got the opportunity to be the kind of person you said you wanted to be. And I think it's really important to remember that because often we feel like all these things are happening to us. And you said you're an EMP unicorn, your empath.

B (63:22)

Yeah, I feel things so deeply.

A (63:24)

Yeah, me. And so do I. Like, I'm quite emotional, I'm quite sensitive to people around me. I like to, you know, I have people pleasing tendencies. I like to make sure everyone around me feels a certain way. And so when you come across like nasty messages, nasty comments, big issues that, that come up publicly, it is an opportunity for you to actually see and show who you actually are.

B (63:45)

Yeah.

A (63:45)

In those moments, like, how do you actually connect with yourself? Like, are you the kind of person that likes to journal? Are you a talker? Are you a thinker? Like, what's your mode to understand, like where your head's at?

B (63:56)

I think one of the best ways that I've processed things and I just think naturally, like as you're building something, especially in public and as a female founder, we see it so many times that like people will build you up only to kind of like have that moment of like, well, I've been waiting in the wings to bring you back down. So I think as a female founder, something I found helpful is responding. Maybe it's typing it out, your response, or speaking in the mirror what your response would be and then just not posting it because you know your truth and you know what's real and what's not, it is not. The onus is not on you as an individual to tell the Internet who you are. And we've kind of entered this culture where, you know, on TikTok, people will come out with these big, grand things that they have to say and. And they want to show receipts and kind of two people end up at a war with each other. I personally don't want to be there ever with anyone. And I'm always trying to, you know, be the bigger person or, you know, not dive into the comment section. So I think you just have to exactly what you said. Live and breathe who you say you are, and in those moments, you can show people who you are. I often find as well that people have already decided. So what are you adding to other than noise? People have already decided if they like you or not. Yeah, I am showing up every day. I have all these people on the Internet who are a part of Brookie, a part of the community, because they want to be there. Those are the people that I'm speaking to. So if you don't have something nice to say, in my opinion, don't say it.

A (65:25)

Yeah, and it's like, if you give that time and energy, like you're trying to, what, convince everyone to like you. It's just a misplaced use of your time, which, as a mum of two, building a global business, like, you have to pick and choose where your energy is going. But really, like, again, the story you tell yourself about what it means for you. And. And I think an important part of this too is like. Like, is there any lessons for you to learn, too? Like, I feel like I've had a very different set of circumstances, but another scenario that, you know, somebody's saying one thing, I feel it's untrue about, about me. And I had to really consider how am I responding to this, and I had to really sit with it for a while. Like, is there any truth to what's being said about my character that I could actually use as a personal growth here? Or, like, take a lesson or learning. Did you feel you had any of that, or was it more a case of you just navigating a situation and just being. Being true to yourself?

B (66:18)

I think the latter. I think I knew myself and me in that moment and my truth. So it is difficult when something is being said about you online that is not true and you. Your integrity is questioned. And also the only thing to gain there out of adding to that noise and becoming a part of that narrative is probably protecting your own ego. Everyone around me knows me. Everyone in my community knows me. Like, everyone knows how hard I work, and I've worked really hard to be here. So. So I think you just have to decide in that moment, like, am I adding any value by adding noise, or am I just adding noise? And is this just noise? And probably, like, my husband was quite good in the process. He saw it very black and white. For him, it's just like, this is just business. Business is business as men do. Yeah, I know. I'm like, how I would love to enter your brain for a day. But for him, it's very black and white. So in that moment, it was really. I mean, all I had around me was my family. And it was really important for me to kind of, like, take the time and just to be like, well, as I keep going down this path, as I keep building this global business, I am going to be open to more scrutiny, to more, like, everything is going to keep going down that way. He said it in a really good way. He said, what do you want your kids to look at when they look up Mommy, like, on the Internet? And I don't want to be a part of a narrative that I didn't invite myself into. And so I think it's just really important in that moment to step back and go, well, who am I as a person? And exactly what you mentioned, everyone goes through it on a different level, where someone will say something about you or say something to you that you're like, well, that's not true, or that didn't happen, or they reframe a conversation that took place, and it's completely different. And you kind of think, I always say, okay, there's two truths and there's three truths, right? Their truth, my truth, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Because we each have our own perceptions, everyone in life. So I think it's just a bigger lesson for me in that you cannot please everyone. As you go through building a business and building in public, people will have something to say. I'm sure you're familiar with people like Amy Smale, like, really found female founders who are building something. And it just happens as you keep building and become more successful, people want to take that down. And I think you have to be really strong in that moment and be who you say you are.

A (68:39)

Yeah, 100%. I'd love to circle back to something which I think is very inspiring and something I want to congratulate you for, which is the funding you've just secured. Now, there's a stat. Only around 2% of female founders globally receive VC funding. So you raising 25 million just a few months ago is no small feat and something that you should be hugely, hugely proud of. What do you want to say to other female founders about what you think made you successful in securing such a big investment?

B (69:14)

2%. That's a grim number. Firstly, I think what I would say on that is I think what we've touched on earlier is don't feel like becoming a mom is a block to achieving your successes. For me, getting to that moment where we received $25 million of investment is so exciting. And so I think it just kind of is testament to everything that we're building. The community that we're building to this point is global. And the conversation that was had when we decided, because it is a big decision as well to take on vc. So it is a big, big decision. My point of it was, we have built this global audience in this global community. We're not going to make it to them without it. So we've grown to six stores in Australia and we're opening up more stores in Australia, and that's really exciting. But to be at the point where we can open in new countries, in new regions, in completely different parts of the world, we needed not just the capital, but also the expertise.

A (70:17)

Like partners in different regions.

B (70:19)

Yeah, exactly. And it has to be the right partners. So for us, we chose a property developer, so we have so much IP there that we can gain on how to enter new markets, you know, how to negotiate leases, the right lease. Like everything is. We're being supported in so many ways other than the capital. And I think what I would say to women is just like being a mom has, for me, become a superpower. So don't think that becoming a mom or being a woman, maybe one day wanting to become a mom, is a blocker to that. It is actually your superpower. And I think, don't quote me, but I think Phoebe Gates just raised 35 million US and one of the conversations that was brought up the most in all of these pitches was what is going to happen when you have babies? And that is just disappointing to me because obviously they wouldn't ask that of men. And men have babies, too. They don't birth the baby, but they have the babies. And so I think if there's one thing that I want to impress onto other people, other women, is just that, don't see that as something that would stop you from achieving those goals and receiving that investment. Because at the time that we first sat down with these investors to have these discussions and there was multiple people at play. I had just had my baby. So six weeks postpartum and at the time that we agreed on the investment and then afterwards is diligence and then you finally announce it to the world. I was three months pregnant. Two. Three months pregnant as well, with my second. So neither, neither of those points did that become a blocker for me. So I think it's finding the right partners who see you and who you are as a person and don't necessarily see, like a woman and. And see that as a blocker or something that would slow you down because it just. It hasn't slowed me down in any way whatsoever. I think, if anything, it's made me better as a leader.

A (72:16)

I love that you're bringing this up because the truth is, like, how you do one thing is how you do everything right. So if someone's investing in you and they see what you've built and you're able to then have a family and keep building, or you're able to show up on TikTok every single day. Like, I feel like, for me anyway, being a mom has been this experience of really fine tuning how I'm spending my time, which is already something I was good at before. But I think that's so beautiful that you've given women that perspective because it often is this. Like, you know, I've even got friends that talk about my business going to change when I have kids. Like, yes, it is going to change, but not in a negative way. Like, it's. You've now, wow, what a privileged position to be in that you now can raise a family and grow your business at the same time. It's just like navigating what that looks like to you now. So I think that's really beautiful that people didn't see that as a block and they believed in you and what you've built and. And that has become your superpower. I think that's a really beautiful message just to share with other mums or other females listening to this too, especially given that stat. Right.

B (73:16)

Yeah, that's. Yeah. And I think as well, like, I'm constantly looking for inspiration in different places. Like, I'll always be looking at different women who have, you know, built something really successful while they had young babies or, you know, like, Drunk Elephant is a good example. Like, she created that when she became a mom. So she had this time suddenly where she was like, okay, well, like, I'm starting to think about what I want to do with my life. And, like, I'm passionate about skincare. And so she made that happen. I think it's just looking for inspiration. It's not just me. There's so many women out there doing it. You're probably just not hearing enough of those stories. So think about where you're, you know, listening to your podcasts or getting that information from. There's so many successful women who have had babies and been successful or have had a successful career and eventually become a mom. Like, however it looks for you, it just, it never is the same. The main thing here is don't compare yourself to anyone else, but take inspiration from other people who have laid the path before you.

A (74:14)

It's like that looking for evidence that it's true versus it's not. And I, I keep seeing these, like, reels of people scrutinizing other podcasts, like, let's say Diary of a CEO, who have all these entrepreneurs on and they're like, but none of these are like breastfeeding mums.

B (74:28)

Like, they don't get it.

A (74:29)

I get that.

B (74:30)

Right?

A (74:30)

Like, not everyone is going to build a business, is also going to choose to have a family and to breastfeed and all of these things. But then go and look for these types of conversations. And I think I'm actually going to make a personal commitment to go and look for mums that have done amazing things because I do want to inspire other people to. That's what this show is about, right? Like, create the life you want and find people that inspire you to do it in a way that is going to be aligned and authentic for you not to, you know, this is the perfect morning routine and you have to copy paste this because everyone's so different. So on that note, actually, for anybody listening, if there's a mom that really inspires you that that's building something amazing, drop a comment or send me a DM because I would love to actually highlight a lot more of these stories. I think they're really important to keep women inspired and achieving their goals. Not thinking it's not possible or like you said, it's a block for them. What do you think has been the biggest shift for you in terms of your mindset? The way you show up being a local bakery owner to being a global CEO.

B (75:30)

I think one of the best books that I read early days when I first decided to start these tick tock videos. So, like, eight months into business and I was like, why isn't it working for me? I'm working so hard. I'm in here every day. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. For no one to know about my business or care about my business. One of the best books that I read is the E Myth Revisited. I don't know if you've heard it.

A (75:54)

I love a good new recommendation.

B (75:56)

Yeah, it breaks down the difference of working in your business versus working on business. And the two things can't exist at the same time, but you can switch between the two mindsets. And what's interesting from my perspective is these videos, you know, blew up online from me being in the business. And then that made it so successful and so many people aligned around the block wanting to come into Brookie, that I was like, how do I work on the business? Because now we've got a line of people around the block and I need to serve those people. So it became a bit of a friction. I think in the early days of it really did become very successful very quickly, overnight. And in that moment, the most important thing for me to do as a leader is to protect everyone around me as much as I can. Because if those people can't do their jobs well, then it becomes this rotating door of, like, it's too stressful. So it is a difficult thing. And I think it's difficult because there's no right or wrong way to do it. There's only good intention. So as soon as you have this huge crowd of people wanting your product and you. I think at the time we had like two or three staff members, like as it was building to then get to the point where you need, you know, at least four people to operate the bakery that day because the line is so long and people are waiting 45 minutes to an hour just to get to the front of the line. But we're existing in this 41 square meter space where you can't fit more than four people. And so then you're kind of dealing with that, like, feedback loop of just put more staff on. And you're like, but where would I put them? Because then it's like really hard for them to move around. And we've only got one point of sales system. And I never knew it was going to become this big. We only made room for one point of sale system in this tiny little bakery. So it became really prevalent early on at that point that I had to be very flexible and reactive as things changed and I had to really be on my game with what everyone around me needed. And as you grow a team, like we now have over 60 team members in Australia. We're now starting to build a team here and then the next pit stop for us is London to open a store in London. I don't even think I've talked about that publicly. So there you go. But as we build these into these new regions, in these new markets and build these teams, we have to do it with intention, but also learning from what came before. So you're never going to do it perfectly. When overnight your business completely changes and there's suddenly a line of people around the block. You have to constantly be adapting and changing and be reactive because it just, it just, it shifted and changed so quickly. And I think social media has this power where it can do that for a business. But you never go to bed at night thinking, tomorrow my bakery is going to blow up and there's going to be a line wrapped around the block and everyone's going to be, you know, traveling from around the country and around the world for these cookies. You never think that that's your reality. So when it is, you just have to go, okay, except this is the new reality. How do I make that, protect that, protect the product, protect the team, protect every single facet of the business and adapt. So what we did is we went from the 41 square meter bakery to a 70 square meter commercial kitchen that was just an extension, a bigger kitchen to fulfill the demand. Then we moved into a 220 square meter kitchen. So that was a really quick progression that happened in like the space of, of under a year. Now we've just moved into a 660 square meter warehouse in Brisbane so that we can facilitate the growth in Australia.

A (79:26)

Wow.

B (79:27)

And then we do the same thing, like how fun we get to pick back up and start again in a new market and start from scratch. Like we've gone from this massive mixer that we have in Brisbane to an 80 liter mixer which once upon a time was huge to me. I've got a photo of me standing next to my 80 liter mixer. I'm like, wow, we are leveling up. And now we're like going back to that. And I'm like, it's so cute and tiny. So I think it's just accepting that new reality as it shifts and being really intentional and showing up for your team and being a bigger leader, a better leader. And I think I've really worked on that as the businesses continue to grow because you only know what you know and you're learning as you go as a leader and then as your team grows bigger, you, you have so many personalities, you have so many different skill sets. Everything changes. So you just have to keep changing yourself. The worst thing you could do is stay the same. As everything changes, you have to change with it. And I think that's the biggest shift of all. Love that.

A (80:23)

And it sounds like you being on the wrong train all those years ago, you know, being resilient, having to think sharp and quick in the moment. You know, it served you all the way through to now. And, you know, you've learned so many things along the way, so it's been really inspiring watching your story. Just before we go, I want to show you. I pulled up one of your first Instagram posts.

B (80:42)

Oh, this is gonna be so embarrassing.

A (80:44)

You remember this? No. It's a photo of you in front of your baker. Yes.

B (80:47)

I'm wearing a mask too.

A (80:49)

Yeah. Covid. Yeah, it's got Covid written all over it. Yeah, but you wrote this in the caption. A patisserie is what I've wanted to create since my first days. Meandering around the streets of Montmartre when I was 17, falling in love with Paris for the first time I've been to Montmartre. It's beautiful. I can imagine one of your little bakeries there. So I wanna ask you, can we expect a pop up in Paris?

B (81:08)

Hey, who knows? There's actually. There's a lot in the pipeline right now, and I wish I could say everything, and I'm actually the worst person at keeping secrets, but you're probably on

A (81:16)

the NDAs right now.

B (81:17)

Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of layers to it. But I mean, when people come into the bakery and they say, can you please open here? And I know we are, I'm like, don't tell anyone, but we're opening them. So I. I do tell people, but I definitely can't announce it yet. Paris is one of the cities I would like to open in, but before then, I've shared London, obviously. Dubai. We are opening in Dubai. Can't say where, but it's really exciting. And the next city is actually the city that I would like. Not even. I can't even comprehend dream that big. I'll tell you off camera, but it's the city, the city in the world that I would gladly go and live in and spend time in and soak up all the energy of and imagine. So where we're going to end up is just. It's beyond my wildest dreams. And I never thought when I opened the bakery that we would be here. But as we've continued to just like take everything in our stride and grow and build as we've gone, I could not be having a better time in my life right now.

A (82:20)

Well, you deserve all the success you're having. It's very inspiring to not only hear your journey watch you, but actually such a privilege to get to know you today. So I want to thank you so much for sharing your story, for opening up. I'm really excited to go to said new big location in Dubai and just watch you as you keep on inspiring people and being a mom and doing all the things and just being really honest about your journey too. So thank you so much for doing everything you do and I really appreciate your time today.

B (82:49)

Thanks for being my first podcast.

A (82:51)

Oh yes.

B (82:51)

And thank you for coming on the

A (82:52)

show if you're first, first appearance.

B (82:54)

Thank you. Thank you so much.