Most People Get Motivation Completely Wrong | Tracy Harmoush

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Balance Theory

Episode: Most People Get Motivation Completely Wrong | Tracy Harmoush
Date: September 14, 2025
Host: Erika De Pellegrin
Guest: Tracy Harmoush (Speaker, Entrepreneur, Founder)

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Overview

In this high-energy and candid episode, Erika De Pellegrin welcomes back Tracy Harmoush for her second appearance on The Balance Theory. The pair dive deep into the reality of motivation, the difference between discipline and restriction, personal growth, mindset shifts, and the misunderstood facets of modern feminism. Tracy shares her unique wisdom on how to build a purposeful, balanced life that’s sustainable and true to your values—without falling for society’s often unrealistic "boss babe" pressures.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mindset and Personal Change

[00:00–05:19]

• Tracy’s Core Philosophy:
  Mindset isn’t just important, it's the foundation for everything. Without it, no self-help guide or program will stick.
• Change is Uncomfortable:
  “Most people don’t change because change is so uncomfortable. It gets you to really undo habits.” – Tracy, [04:55]
• Conscious vs. Unconscious Living:
  By 35, we’re “95% who we are.” Unless we interrupt autopilot and bring our habits to consciousness, meaningful change is unlikely.
• Self-Awareness as a Superpower:
  Tracy emphasizes the importance of self-awareness—recognizing one’s own patterns such as procrastination, over-talking, or playing small.

2. Reverse Engineering Your Future Self

[05:19–12:20]

• Inspired by Observation:
  Tracy’s commitment to change came from observing people stuck in negative habits, particularly fearing becoming “old, lonely, and bitter.”
• Practical Reverse Engineering:
  “Who do you want to be at 80?” Work backwards: build wisdom, maintain connections, keep learning, and prioritize self-development.
  • Notable Quote:
    “The beauty of aging is growing in wisdom. If you don’t have wisdom, then all you have is aging.” – Tracy, [06:50]
• Process Over Outcome:
  Focus on building habits and integrity with yourself (“keeping promises to yourself”) for confidence and satisfaction today—not some distant goal.

3. Dealing with Rejection and Focusing on Process

[12:20–14:45]

• Letting Go of Outcome Fixation:
  Tracy describes the peace that comes with focusing on learning through the process, not only the result.
• Minimizing the Fear of Rejection:
  “Rejection is just redirection, like they say. It doesn’t matter if you get rejected. Work through it.” – Tracy, [13:52]
• Perspective Shift:
  Seeing oneself as “minuscule” in the grand scheme of things helps overcome fears around taking action.

4. Discipline: Misunderstood Freedom

[14:45–16:29]

• Redefining Discipline:
  “Discipline is not restriction, discipline is freedom…If you don’t have discipline, you’re going to be a prisoner of your choices.” – Tracy, [14:53]
• Structure and Long-term Freedom:
  Building structure and discipline into your life unlocks future autonomy in health, finances, and productivity.

5. Motivation vs. Discipline

[16:29–21:34]

• Myth-Busting Motivation:
  “Everyone’s waiting for motivation. Motivation is not going to allow you to put one step in front of the other. The only thing that allows you to do that is discipline first, even when you hate it.” – Tracy, [16:50]
• Action Breeds Progress, Progress Breeds Motivation:
  Taking disciplined steps—even when unmotivated—creates results, which spark real motivation.
• Momentum Over Motivation:
  Momentum is both hard to achieve and easy to lose—so when you catch it, “don’t let it go.” – Tracy, [18:58]
• Motivation as a Bonus:
  Erika offers that discipline and consistency are the foundation; motivation is just “a bonus” when it shows up.
• Discipline is Not About Your Feelings:
  “Discipline doesn’t care about your feelings...You do the discipline today to make future you happy.” – Tracy, [20:41]

6. Modern Feminism, Gender Roles & The 'Boss Babe' Mentality

[21:34–40:32]

• Hijacked Narratives:
  Tracy unpacks how well-intentioned words like ‘feminism’ get hijacked by “woke culture” and lose nuance.
• Women’s Superpowers and Trade-offs:
  “We are good at that [family, nurturing]. Why are we pretending like we’re not? … We can’t do it all, all at once.” – Tracy, [24:55]
• Rejecting 'Having It All' Pressure:
  Tracy calls out the burnout and guilt of trying to embody the ‘boss babe who does it all’ ideal.
  • Notable Quote:
    “No, it is not ‘I can do everything.’ It is ‘I can do everything—maybe—but in different phases of my life.’ My life comes in seasons.” – Tracy, [25:58]
• Supporting True Gender Balance:
  The conversation points out that the outcome of today’s gender debates is sometimes worse for women, not better, creating new forms of pressure instead of true freedom.
• Role Synergy vs. Labels:
  Erika and Tracy discuss choosing and respecting complementary roles within relationships. The need to label everything (“feminist,” “boss babe”) is replaced by independent thinking and honor for each person’s choice.
• Genderless Self-Development:
  “When we’re talking about self development, that is a genderless conversation.” – Erika, [37:20] Tracy expands: “The bigger goal is what can I do to feel more attractive to myself? How can I self-optimize?...We create a society of self-optimized people that make better choices.” [37:31]

7. Self-Optimization and Silent Confidence

[37:31–40:32]

• Focus Inward, Stand Unbothered:
  Tracy points out that when you know who you are (and are working on yourself), outside noise and criticism lose their power:
  • Notable Quote:
    “There’s nothing someone can say that will offend me…because I know what I do in my private time…silently.” – Tracy, [39:09]
• Purpose—For All Genders:
  Whether through career, motherhood, or any other pursuit, everyone should strive for a life of purpose and ongoing personal development.

8. Surrendering to Life Seasons and Feminine Energy

[40:32–47:02]

• Leaning into Seasons of Life:
  Erika shares her pregnancy experience and the challenges of shifting from her usual high-achieving, ‘do-it-all’ self to honoring rest and her body’s changes.
• Letting Go of Societal Pressure:
  “It’s okay to let my husband lead right now and I’m comfortable with it. What’s a heavier load is when [men] feel incompetent versus women.” – Tracy, [44:03]
• Community and Interdependence:
  Tracy emphasizes that it’s healthier to aim for interdependence than default independence—not because you must, but because community is a human value.
• Resilience in Relationships:
  “You made a vow. You also committed, for better or for worse…If you’re aware it’s going to be difficult, you’ll make better choices.” – Tracy, [45:35]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Mindset:
  “Mindset is the basis of change. And most people don’t change.” – Tracy, [03:50]

• On Discipline and Freedom:
  “If you don’t have discipline, then you’re going to be a prisoner of your own choices and your habits.” – Tracy, [14:53]

• On Motivation:
  “The only thing that’s going to motivate you is your progress…Action creates progress, and that sparks motivation.” – Tracy, [16:50]

• On Rejection:
  “Rejection is just redirection.” – Tracy, [13:52]

• On Feminism and Seasons:
  “It is not ‘I can do everything.’ It is ‘I can do everything—maybe—but in different phases of my life. My life comes in seasons.’” – Tracy, [25:58]

• On Self-Optimization:
  “Men and women should go after self-optimization so that we create this society of self-optimized people that make better choices.” – Tracy, [37:31]

• On Confidence and Criticism:
  “There’s nothing someone can say that will offend me…because I know what I do in my private time…silently.” – Tracy, [39:09]

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Timestamped Highlights

| Timestamp | Topic | Speaker | Quote/Insight | |---------------|--------------------------------------------|-----------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–05:19 | Mindset and self-awareness | Tracy | “Most people don’t change because change is so uncomfortable.” | | 05:19–12:20 | Reverse engineering your future | Tracy | “The beauty of aging is growing in wisdom.” | | 14:53 | Discipline as freedom vs. restriction | Tracy | “Discipline is freedom… Otherwise, you’re a prisoner.” | | 16:50–19:49 | Motivation is not the starting point | Tracy | “Action creates progress, and that sparks motivation.” | | 20:41 | Discipline is not about feelings | Tracy | “Discipline doesn’t care about your feelings.” | | 25:58 | Seasons of life and the 'I can do it all' myth | Tracy | “My life comes in seasons.” | | 37:31 | Genderless self-development | Erika & Tracy | “Self-development is a genderless conversation.” | | 39:09 | Silent confidence and criticism | Tracy | “There’s nothing someone can say that will offend me…” | | 44:03 | Embracing seasons and roles | Tracy | “It’s okay to let my husband lead right now…” | | 45:35 | Commitment in relationships | Tracy | “You made a vow… for better or for worse.” |

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Concluding Themes

• Sustained personal growth is about the long game—it’s not who you are now, but who you’re consciously becoming.
• Discipline is the root, not the enemy. Progress only follows sustained, sometimes dull, action—not inspiration.
• Master your seasons: There’s freedom in embracing different roles and life phases, letting go of the pressure to ‘do it all’.
• Feminism, like many ideologies, is overdue for nuance—your path is valid whether traditional or modern, corporate or homemaker, as long as it’s yours.
• True confidence is quiet—rooted in self-knowledge, purpose, and daily self-respect.

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Further Listening

• Tracy’s First Episode: Referenced as a pivotal conversation for Erika
• Suggested Playlists: Mindset, Self Awareness, Health + Fitness

For more, follow The Balance Theory on Instagram or explore their curated Spotify playlists linked in the show notes.

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This summary covers the main insights, perspectives, and direct wisdom from Tracy and Erika, offering listeners a concise yet rich guide to the key points and empowering reframes discussed in this thought-provoking episode.

Transcript

[A]

By the time we're 35, we're 95% who we are. And unless we are bringing that to the conscious mind instead of the unconscious, most people don't change because change is so uncomfortable. Today's guest is speaker, entrepreneur, and founder. She joins me for a second time.

[B]

On the podcast today to chat mindset.

[A]

Discipline, feminism, and personal growth. My guest today is Tracey Harmish.

[B]

What do you think a lot of people get wrong when it comes to being disciplined?

[A]

Discipline is not restriction. Discipline is freedom. If you don't have the discipline to train, you're going to be a prisoner of your body. If you don't have the discipline to eat well, you're going to be a prisoner of disease. Discipline doesn't care about your feelings. It's not about, let me see if I feel good about this so that I will perform today. You do it anyway. Create feminism or talk about feminism under the umbrella of I can do everything all at once boss, babe. That is the worst end of the stick for women. How does that help us? I didn't sign up for some intelligence telling me that you need to have it all together all the time. Be a boss, babe, get paid as much as men in the same industry while you're taking care of your three kids, while you're taking care of your husband, while you're handling your household. I don't want that pressure. It is not I can do everything. It is I can do everything, maybe, but.

[B]

All right, balances. Welcome back to another episode of the Balance Theory. I'm excited today because our guest is returning for round two. I had her on the show last year. That's when we first met and. And we connected and we've stayed connected and so much has happened since then. So I'm really excited to have you on the show again today. My guest is Tracy Hammush. Tracy, welcome back.

[A]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad to do a part two. The part one actually did really well.

[B]

Yes, yes. I'm going to link it in the show notes for people who haven't seen it. Basically, we dove deep into. Actually, it was quite an iconic moment in time in terms of my trajectory because I spoke to you about your exit from the corporate world and finding your passion and your thoughts around that, which I think was a quite unique take for people looking to kind of find more meaning in their life. And it was actually that conversation that was like the last nail in the coffin for me to leave my job and move into consulting. So it holds a very special place in my heart when people ask me what was your. What's been your favorite conversation? That one is always one that's up there. So if you guys haven't listened to it, definitely check it out.

[A]

I remember you were still doing full time then.

[B]

I was still working on a lot.

[A]

I remember that. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm so happy for you. Everything has changed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this podcast grew massively since.

[B]

Yeah, lots has happened.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

But we're here to talk about you today a little bit more. You're a woman who has a very unique mindset. And I think that it's no surprise that what you've achieved, the things you've created, the relationships you have, the type of person you are, it's. It's no coincidence with the way you think. But let's talk and dive in a little bit more about mindset. What does that actually mean? Like, when we're talking about mindset, what does that mean to you?

[A]

Oh, I think mindset is the basis for everything. There's nothing we can follow. Not a guide, not a program, not a purpose if we don't feel like we have our mindset intact. And what I mean by that is when we feel like we're in control, we're in the driver's seat. Even myself, I mean, if. If I feel thrown off and I'm not aligned in my mindset, I can't even commit to the task that I know I have the tools, I have the knowledge, I know what to do to launch a product, I know what to do to lose weight, I know what to do to. To get to the gym. But if I don't feel centered in my mind, there's nothing in hell that would make me be able to commit. So mindset is the basis of change. And most people don't change. That's the truth. I think there's a statistic that says by the time we're 35, we're 95% who we are. And unless we are bringing that to the conscious mind instead of the unconscious, where we're doing things out of habit and on autopilot because we discovered certain habits of how we feel our emotions towards certain things, our mindset towards certain things, how we do things automatedly, physically. So unless we change our, our conscious, our unconsciousness to the conscious mind and we are aware and self aware is everything right? You can't make any changes unless you're self aware to superpower. Most people aren't. You don't realize when you're over talking you don't realize when you're interrupting. You don't realize when you're loud in a room and other people are having a side talk. You don't realize that you procrastinate. You don't realize a lot of things. We just move on autopilot. So unless we bring that to our consciousness and make that decision that I want to make that change, most people don't change because change is so uncomfortable. Make it gets you to really undo habits. And undoing a habit that you've been doing for 30 years, it's very tough. So mindset is everything. And I think change starts. It starts in your mind.

[B]

How did you initially kind of come to this realization? Because it's one thing to become aware of it, and then it's one thing to become aware of your awareness, you know, and actually then start making change. So what prompted you to actually start going, okay, what's in my subconscious? How do I make that conscious? And then how did you actually do that? Because I'm just, you know, for people listening who are like, okay, this is interesting. How do they understand what their mindset is?

[A]

So I think the first thing was seeing people who I never wanted to end up like and watching their patterns. You could look at your parents, you could look at your siblings. You can look at people, your peers, and anyone that has a certain habit or continuously does things and that are repetitive and downward spiral or not moving forward or never changing. And usually we see this with the older generation. I think one of my biggest fears is to end up old and lonely and bitter and stuck in my ways. The typical stereotypes that we hear of older people like, he is who he is. You can't talk to him.

[B]

You can't change him, can't teach him.

[A]

You can't teach him to change. They can't be empathetic. They can't listen now like, she is who she is. That's very, very difficult pill for me to swallow. And I would never want to be in a position where my children think this way of me, my friends think this way of me. I end up lonely and bitter and not knowing how to add value with my wisdom for the people around me. I think the beauty of aging is growing in wisdom. And if you don't have wisdom, then all you have is aging. You end up bitter, you end up not being able to add value in society. And it's a matter of life that we are meant not to be a big part of society as seniors, but you can be part of your community. You can be able to give your wisdom and your, and your empathy and your calm and you know, like there's an energy that you want to have when you're kids are busy with their grandchildren and growing their businesses. You want to be that center and that calm when all else fails for them and instead of being the headache in their lives. And I think watching people do that in front of me made me realize, okay, what do I need to do today in order for me not to reach there? And it all starts today. You know, nobody worries about what you are going to be when you're 80 and 90. Everybody worries about, you know, catering to their inner child, catering to the 12 year old who was bullied in school. Great. But for how long are we going to do that before we start catering to who we are when we're 80 and who we are when we're 90?

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

So how do I not be lonely? I need to make sure I continue to have peers around me and friends and family that I have real conversation with. How do I have wisdom? I need to constantly read and constantly, you know, personal development is the mastery of all things. Right. If you're not feeding your mind, you're losing confidence, in my opinion. How do I learn how to argue with my husband so that I don't brush things aside so that by the time we're 80, we don't know how to talk to each other anymore? Right. So there's multiple ways of doing it. And if you want, if there are certain topics that really hit home for you, like relationships. I don't want to have a bad relationship when I'm older. I don't want to sleep in separate bedrooms with my husband. I don't want to lose my friends when I'm that age. I want to be able to have my kids come to me at that age. These are all big things for me. So today, what can I do in order to continue to be moldable? You know, I don't want to fit in that 95% of people that don't change after 35, I want to be in the 5%. And the minute you think of change, it's, it just opens delight and opportunity for you. Right. If there's the possibility to change and to grow, at least now for me, with how much I work on change, it just shows like there's happiness in life, that there's the possibility to shift gear if all else fails or if things don't go my way. And instead of taking it as a negative and a fear I'll Just do the change through the fear. Because there's always beauty that comes on the other side of it.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. That's interesting. You kind of contemplate who you want to be at that age and reverse engineer it and think, what changes do I need to make now? Because really, you're not going to turn 80 and be like, okay, great, how do I make all these things happen? It's a foundation you build over time. Just like anything, A business, an audience, a voice. Like, it's built one brick at a time.

[A]

You know, Alex Hormoze says it in a very interesting way. He says, think of who the 80 year old you would be and who you are now and try to bridge that gap between who 80 year old you is and who you are today. What can you do so that that version of 80 year old you that you visualize that is at the top of their game, has a lot of money, is comfortable, comfortably retired, has some investments here and there, has a lovely family. How do you reverse engineer that? So what do you do to close that gap? Me playing video games all day and not training and, you know, slacking off on my business is obviously not going to help me. So what am I supposed to do today to bridge that gap as much as possible? So I actually achieved that, you know, whether you get there or not, a different story. But at least the process is what you're proud of. And I think the confidence is in the process. It's not in the end goal. Right. You're not going to say, okay, when I reach the $10 million, I'm going to be happy. I believe that the process, when you're doing the things that build up to that, that on its own will get you confident. That on its own, you don't even need to get there yet. If you know you're doing the right thing and you're keeping the promises to yourself, you feel good every day. There's some confidence every day. And that's what matters.

[B]

Yeah. Because achieving any goal, it's not about reaching that milestone. It's about becoming the person who has that thing, who grows into, who develops the skills, who builds the business that has that thing. And that is all personal growth. When I talk about goals, it's always about not what you're going to achieve, it's about who you're going to become. And when you reframe it that way, there's so much more admiration and celebration for the process. But this is like an ultimate stretch goal. Right. And we're not Just talking about where do you want to go in the next 12 months, in the next five years? Like if you actually dangle that idea in your mind, it actually, and I know you do this with training, right? Like you talk about your training for your 80 year old self, which I love that idea. It's not about an aesthetic feel here and now. It's about I want to self sustain and want to walk around. I want to be able to play with my family when I'm 80, 90, not be dependent on others. So very similarly with your goals and your mindset and the way you think you could actually apply that and think about your life today. I love this idea. When you did this and you were thinking about, okay, how do I have better relationships and be that pillar of wisdom and not be fixed in my ways, was there anything you had to really shift or unlearn to actually then create space for that 80 year old version of yourself?

[A]

Yeah, I had to stop focusing on the end result and getting there quickly. I think that's. That causes a lot of anxiety, a lot of fears and the short term goals are not there for the bigger picture. You know, you end up just wanting that win and the win is not, is not enough. And I had to, you know, be comfortable with the rejections and the losses and the shifting gear. I feel I got very good with rejection now. Like I used to not take rejection well at all because I didn't put myself in a position to get rejected. You know, I wouldn't apply because I'd be too scared to apply. I wouldn't ask because I'd be too scared to ask, what if I look dumb and he tells me no. So I think having that long term goal and always, you know, thinking of yourself as small, I mean, this is a very important one. Who am I in the bigger scheme of things? I'm really a nobody. And I, I know we live in a world where they want to make everybody feel like you're unique and you're special, but yeah, you might be unique and special, but you're also like minuscule compared to the bigger things. And if every time I look at myself as so small compared to the big problems that people have, the, you know, the world's problems, the political problems, the social problems, and then I come in and say, yeah, but my problem, me asking if this guy wants to get on my podcast or me checking if I could, you know, collabor with this brand is going to embarrass me so much that I won't even try. In the first place. For what? Like it's so small compared to the bigger thing. So I think that was a huge thing, like rejection. Park that aside, it doesn't matter if you get rejected. Work through it. You know, that's just redirection like they say. It's not like the painful feeling of rejection. Yeah, I mean, I would say that's a huge one for me, being able to walk through rejection.

[B]

I think a lot of this comes down. I mean, I obviously know you a little better than maybe some of the listeners do. And so what I can say is that I think a lot of this is your discipline as well. And it's discipline in your self growth. So that doesn't mean you wake up every day and do the same thing. Because I'm very much the same way. I wake up every day and I'm wanting to work on myself. I know that I don't have all the answers. I want to grow and have different experiences. So you're open to rejection. That's our mindset.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What do you think a lot of people get wrong when it comes to being disciplined?

[A]

So I think already people hate the word for some reason. It feels like it's just heavy. Right. So you need discipline. It feels very heavy. What they don't realize is that discipline is not restriction, discipline is freedom. If you don't have discipline, then you're going to be a prisoner of your choices and your habits. So if you don't have the discipline to train, you're going to be a prisoner of your body when you're older. If you don't have the discipline to eat well, you're going to be a prisoner of disease in future. If you don't have the discipline to build a business, you will be a prisoner to your finances. Or if you're building a brand or like if you don't have. If you don't have the discipline to save money, let's say you will be a prisoner to your finances. So the reality is when you do have discipline or structure, let's say, let's use the word structure, when you do have structure and a plan that you follow on a day to day basis that will lead you to get the things that you want. And when you have the things that you want, discipline is long term freedom. You'll have freedom for time. If you know how to manage your time with discipline. If you don't know how to manage time for discipline, you'll have, you'll be a prisoner to, you know, chaos. Chaos. You won't Be able to get things done because you don't know how to manage your time. So if you really change the framework of what does discipline really mean? Is it restriction or is discipline freedom? And the truth is, discipline is freedom in the long run.

[B]

Yeah. And for me, like, discipline just comes down to consistency. I think why people think it's this very rigid, kind of harsh term is because they think maybe I'm wrong. But this is my assumption. It's tied with motivation, which is a very fleeting concept. So it's like, I'm not motivated every day, so how can I be disciplined? What are your thoughts on motivation?

[A]

Wow. I could, like, write a book on this. Maybe you should. Maybe I should. My husband keeps telling me, one day I need see you write a book. I'm like, that takes discipline. Right? So here's a thought on. On motivation. The problem is that everybody's waiting for motivation, right? I need to feel motivated to go to the gym. I need to feel motivated to start eating healthy. And the only thing that's going to motivate you is your progress. So if I want to lose weight and I feel stuck in my. In my weight gain and I don't feel good, I don't like to look at myself in the mirror. You see this a lot. And I'm like, wait until I. When I'm motivated, I'll start eating clean. The issue is that when you wait for motivation first, which never comes, you can get motivated. From one inspirational video, you'd get really excited. You feel fired up on that motivational video, but then two hours later, you forget that you watched it. Motivation is not going to allow you to put one step in front of the other. The only thing that allows you to do that is to do the discipline first. So you do it first even when you hate it, even when it's annoying, even when it feels difficult, even if your mind is not there, right? So you do the discipline first through the crap one week, in two weeks in, you see results. And it could be as quick as a week in or two weeks in. In most things. I mean, you can have five and still five habits of discipline, like sleep better, you know, drink a lot of water. You know, sleep. Sleep eight hours, drink a lot of water, journal in the morning and have some quiet time, prayer time or meditation time for five minutes in a day. If you do things for a week, you will see change. And when you see change, and it could completely shift your life in many ways. In your body, when you're dieting or in your training when you're going to the gym, that is what's going to spark up the motivation. It's your movement and your progress that sparks the motivation. It's not the other way around. And most people are waiting for the motivation first, and then they'll instill the discipline so they don't move. They say exactly where they are. It's always motivation first. Sorry, it's always discipline first action. That action creates progress. That progress says, damn, look at this progress. I can keep going and your momentum will continue to create motivation. But the problem is that when people see momentum, sometimes they break. Okay, I see momentum. You know, it's been a month and I have ripped now, so great. Then they stack off again. And what's so much harder than finding motivation is finding momentum. So if you find that momentum, don't let it go. Like, that's the best advice I can give somebody. Because the multiple times that I've had strong momentum and posting on Social, strong momentum on my podcast, strong momentum in my business, strong momentum in the gym or in eating habits, and then I get lazy and I slack off to find that momentum again. It's tough. So when you catch the momentum, don't let it go.

[B]

Yeah. And I'd say, like, in my experience anyway, even when you have that momentum, you're not necessarily motivated. That whole time you feel the fire, and it's like you're being consistent through it. It's almost like you've got a little bit extra energy that supports you through. But even still, like, when you're. I find I consider myself to be very disciplined and consistent in life in general. Like, motivation for me is just a bonus. That's how I see it. Like, some days I wake up with more energy. If anything pregnancy has taught me is that, you know, when you. When you have it, capitalize on it. When you don't have it, just listen to your body. But like, it's. It is this fallacy that it's something that will carry you once you have it. But I think even an even stronger approach is that discipline, consistency, which is the foundation blocks. And then if you get a motivated day, like, that's kind of a bonus. That's how I see it.

[A]

I totally agree. Actually, that's a good point. The thing is, discipline exists because you stick with it, even if you don't feel like it. That's why discipline is there. Discipline doesn't care about your feelings. And if you realize that, that it's not about. Let me see if I feel good about this. So that I will perform today. You do it anyway. You need to park your feelings and you do the thing anyway because that's going to feed into long term goals of happy you, of 80 year old you. You do the discipline today to make future you happy. You don't do the discipline today to make you happy today. It's not a, you know, how do I feel about this today kind of a thing. It really has to be, what is the long term plan? Who am I making proud? Is it 80 year old me? Is it next year me when I get to launch this business and you do the discipline today to make that person proud?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I want to shift gears a little bit now and this is something that's come to mind a bit more recently. So you, you also had Andrew Tate on your podcast recently. And it really got me thinking because, look, we were just talking a bit off air. Like, I think fundamentally a lot of the things he talks about, we actually both align on which. Which a lot of people might find a bit surprising. I think the way he says it, he knows what he's doing is purposeful. It's to trigger people. What I mean when I say I align with things he says? Since maybe the last five or so years, I've had this shift in the way I see myself, particularly in my relationship and in the way I do my work. I was raised in corporate and so it was this very masculine, I have to fend for myself. My parents were divorced, so, you know, I sort of grew up thinking I gotta have my own back. But when I met my husband, we've got a really beautiful relationship. We work hard at it, we've built a strong foundation. He has taught me, he's given me this space where I can lean more into my feminine because I feel safe. And it's really brought me back to this very traditional way of looking at family, at relationships, at the masculine feminine role. Now being pregnant more than ever. I just feel like as, as women, we have something men don't mention. And the flip of that is men have something we don't. And so I was always putting myself in this basket of I need to do everything men can do and I want to prove myself and I got my own back. But I really do respect the fundamentals of biology and energy in my relationship. And I know you feel quite similarly. But then at the same time, I'm very grateful. I live in a period of history where women do have opportunity and we are respected for the things that we create and build and I don't want to ignore that. So this is a going to be a very open kind of topic. But where I want to start is with the knowing that we both kind of feel similarly about the way we want to be kind of more traditional and female energy in our house, in our, in our families, as mothers, as wives, as friends. But then we also kind of have this, let's, for lack of better word, like boss girl attitude. How do you find reconciling both? Do you think that there is a synergy in both? Do you think that we're missing out by not picking and choosing when? What do you think society is getting wrong with all of this?

[A]

I think like most causes, words that were put at good use get hijacked. Things like feminism gets hijacked in modern days by the woke culture. Things like anti Semitic gets hijacked. Anyone's anti Semitic if they just have a disagreement with somebody. Racist gets hijacked. Right. Words that actually had meaning in the past get hijacked with modern interpretation. Interpretation. If you look at the stats actually at almost every metric, women are beating men now in almost every metric. In education, in schools, there's more women than men. In graduate graduates, there are more women and men in corporate jobs and high end corporate jobs. If you look at urban culture, you have a lot of women that have more jobs than men. You even see suicide rates and depression rates higher in men than in women. So we also cannot think of us only and allow our men to fall behind. We are nurturers. We know how to put a family unit together. We know how to hold a household. We know we're good at that. And if I look at all my friends around me, the women know how to do that much more than the men. You know, if the minute they travel or they leave the house, the men fall apart like they don't know what to do with the house. Right. So we are good at that. Why are we pretending like we're not? Why are we taking away our superpower? I don't think it's a matter of we can't do it all. I just think it's a matter of we can't do it all all together. This is what it is. And you one has to, you know, the truth is one, you need to sacrifice one for the other, depending on where you are in your life. In my 20s, I could be full on corporate. I could work 12, 15 hours, boss, babe, as much as you want. But does that mean that I have space and room to nurture a family and to have a husband to take care of and to take care of my household, too. No. And you know what? It's a terrible deal for us to, you know, create feminism or talk about feminism under the umbrella of I can do everything all at once boss babe. That is the worst end of the stick for. For women. How. How does that help us? It's toxic. It actually makes. It gives us a terrible end of the deal. Like, I didn't sign up for this. I didn't sign up for someone telling me that you need to have it all together all the time. Be a boss babe, get paid as much as men in the same industry while you're taking care of your three kids, while you're taking care of your husband, while you're handling your household. I don't want that pressure. The burnout is real. The feeling of not being able to handle doing everything, but having to show that I can't handle everything, because that's what boss babe culture is telling us. It's a lot. And I don't want to have to pretend. I don't want to have to fall under that narrative. I want to say that I'm going to try my best to do what I can while I'm not pregnant yet, but when I do get pregnant, something's going to have to take a backseat. So. No, it is not. I can do everything. It is. I can do everything. Maybe. But in different phases of my life, my life comes in seasons. Season one can be fully on me, independent. Season two will be my family comes first. And I don't want to feel like I have to compromise something so beautiful as family, unit and partnership because I want to fall under this hole. I can do it all together. No, you can't do it all together. Something's got to give. You know, it's either your guilt or your burnout or your relationship. The narrative has shifted completely. You know, yes, there's toxicity everywhere, but it's not all toxic. And women like us know, the masculine, the feminine, like, we know what toxic is. I will never tolerate toxicity in my life, and you, too. But what is toxicity really? Is everything toxic? Is anytime that there's a man in a high position, it's toxic. Any relationship that you got broken, broken up with, that's toxic. No, not everything is toxic. So let's choose our world's words, and let's not hijack all words, because when it matters. For the people that are actually in toxic relationships, for the people that are actually in, you know, have no voting rights, have no Rights as women, they need a voice. We're overshadowing what they're really going through. Then who's going to hear them when, you know, when the girl cries wolf, who is going to listen? They all try to put that under feminism. Right. Like as a feminist, feminist. We need to protect the women that are sexually abused or whatever. But that's not feminism. That is protecting women that are sexually abused. You don't need to be a feminist to fight for that cause. You know, you don't need to put yourself under an ism to fight under for a certain cause. Men should be fighting for that cause too. No, we don't want women to be sexually abused, of course, but why do we have to box ourselves in an ideology like, okay, this is the ideology that I need to follow and everything that I think is going to have to fall under this. You can just not box yourself and fight for causes that matter, you know?

[B]

Yeah, we become very obsessed with labels and titles and having to fit into certain boxes because people, Society wants to.

[A]

Make you fit in a box because if you say something outside of that box, oh, okay, but you don't stand for women. You're not a feminist, you don't stand for women. But that's not at all what it is. You can have your own ideologies and your own mindset of how what matters to you as a feminist and unbox yourself under every ideology that the feminist movement has today, especially modern day feminism. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah, I always used to kind of struggle with that where I would subscribe to some concepts within an ideology, let's say, but not all of them. But it's kind of like as a, an independent thinker, you can actually piece together bits and pieces that make sense for you. One conversation that was going on in Australia, basically, this young guy had this podcast and he was, was seen as a very toxic, masculine Andrew Tatey kind of energy and people lost their minds. Because, look, I'll say the way he said what he said, he probably has some learnings to go in terms of how he articulates himself, but the core of what he said was, you know, I am, I want to be the kind of man where my woman doesn't have to work if she doesn't want to. She can do whatever she wants and I can come home and I can enjoy her feminine energy because that's such a good balance for mine. And you know where, how he finished that opinion, he went off on a bit of a tangent, but that was the premise. And as A logical person. You can see that's the premise of what he's saying, right? You don't have to get lost in all the other stuff, but it created this whole conversation in Australia about how toxic that is for women to think that if they're in that, like there's a lot of women in that situation, right, where they're in relationships and they very well and truly may not have to work and their husbands look after them and all of that, but what position does that leave them in financially as a dependent if something were to go wrong? Right? And so this whole conversation around women needing to protect themselves against potential financial abuse and control and all this stuff.

[A]

Which I understand, yes, but that's different to feminism, right? Like, you know what I mean?

[B]

But it also comes down like, it's also made me think of. I mean, I'm not discounting people in that situation by any means, but. But people then go and hate on the idea of a beautiful, harmonious relationship where that could exist, right? It doesn't mean that. I just think it's so important the partner you choose, right? Because I, I'm fortunate. I could stay at home and look after my husband, look after the house, but he is such a champion of the things I'm trying to create and the things I'm trying to build. I just. I don't know, maybe I haven't thought about how to articulate my thoughts with it yet, but I think that when these kinds of issues come up with, or you got to think of the worst case scenario, you've got to think of all the toxic situations, all necessary, all important. It takes away from the essence of that actually being a beautiful thing. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

I know what you mean. Look, it's, it's. It's hard to put into words, but the reality is the world is not perfect. In an ideal world, a man has his head on his shoulders. He knows how to protect and lead and guide and, you know, provide for his family for years and years and years to come. He will be faithful. The wife will be faithful. They will know how to work on the relationship. They will work on conversation. They will grow and build together. They will continue to be confrontational and hold each other accountable. Perfect world. But what is the probability of all relationships ending like that? Not everyone is, like we said, self aware. Not everyone is willing to change and willing to take accountability and willing to build and grow and do better. Not everybody's like that. So, yes, as long as we have the option for women to be able to take care of themselves. And this is a huge thing that I promote with my own program. It is, how do you take care of your confidence? How do you take care of yourself? How do you build you. And I'm not only speaking to women. It just so happened that most of the people on my program is women, but I speak to individuals because if we have an elevated society, both men and women, the whole society elevates in terms of their choices, their value, their decision making. You know, they take care of themselves. They, they, they love themselves enough to take care of themselves. They trust their own judgment, they have agency. If the whole society has that, then most people will have that self aware awareness come to the forefront and they will make better decisions and then the marriages will last longer. But in situations where that doesn't happen and one person puts the effort, the other doesn't, then of course having something to fall back on is great. Which is why I work personally. I like to build and grow and have purpose. And like you said about your husband. My husband, I mean, I'm so lucky that he champions all the things I do. Like, he's prouder of me than I am of me. You know, he's always like, you know, Trace, you've got this call this person, you've got this, you know, you can do it. When I'm crying and I'm thinking I'm all over the place, he's like, you know, you can do this. Like you've got this. You have to figure out the solution. He doesn't come and try to save me and do the fix the problem for me. But I like that because it builds my character, you know. So yes, there's the angle of find ways to have purpose in life. I don't think anyone is exempt from finding purpose if you want to be confident and happy in the long run. So if your purpose is through a business, your purpose is through philanthropy. Your purpose is through your children. If you live a life of purpose, then I feel like it's first of all solves a lot of that problem because you're not just lounging around and lounging around, I think makes in general you less likely to have, you know, respect from society. This is a reality. No one will. If you don't have new conversation, if you don't personal develop, you don't read new things, you don't update or upgrade yourself, you're not going to have much added value in society. And if your husband gets bored of you, or vice versa, your husband doesn't upgrade Himself, he doesn't learn new things he doesn't do, you know, he doesn't self develop. You're gonna end up looking at him like, okay, he keeps making the same jokes, talks about the same things over and over again. He never picks up the dumbbell at the gym. It's not attractive not to grow, you know, and that's, that's detrimental for relationships in general. So you have to really think, is it, what am I going to do to be the best version of me? How am I going to make my relationship last the most? You know, and if you're switching roles, like one person's taking over the finances, the other person's taking care of the family, if you're both doing it together and start splitting the roles of everything, like me and my husband as we are today, we split everything. Maybe in due course I'll say, okay, I'll take kids, you take finances. But if we can today, and we live in Dubai and it's expensive, we can both build and grow together because we both have the ambition to, that's fine too. But the idea is not to shame people for making choices like, I'm going to park my career right now because I'm going to raise kids. I or vice versa. But it doesn't. We live in a day and age where you have the access to investments, to learning to see how you can make money from home. And if women want to feel protected and make money from home, there's hundreds of way to do do it. You can podcast from home, you can e commerce business from home. You could do a bunch of things from home that won't entail you feeling forced to go climb the corporate ladder while raising kids, you know, and you protect yourself if, you know, things go wrong in the relationship.

[B]

Yeah. 100. I think a lot of this is also like us unlearning what we think we have to be. Like that whole concept of having to be everything all the time, like I do resonate with that. That's again, it. Yeah, it was in my conditioning, I think from a protective point of view.

[A]

Same.

[B]

But you know, I very much see my marriage as a team. Like we're creating family together, we're creating experiences together, we're creating life together. And that's a beautiful thing. But it's interesting when you think of all this rhetoric, all this conversation, like if you remove the gender lens from it, it applies to everyone. Like all the things we're talking about, about feeling confident in who you are, about building a safety net, about growing as A person like, it doesn't have to just apply to women. Like I remember in our, in our previous conversation we were talking about getting promotions and how there's, there's often time a pressure of we need to have a woman on the board, but it really should just be who's the most f person. Yeah. For this role. And so in a very similar way, when we're talking about self development, self improvement, any concepts that we've just discussed, how you are in a relationship, that is a genderless conversation. Right. It's a genderless argument. And so I think a lot of the things that people get stuck on or fixated on, if we just remove gender and talk about like individual growth and individual people.

[A]

I think that's what I was saying before, like shifts the lens 100%. That's exactly what I was saying before. If your husband equally doesn't grow anymore, doesn't put the effort in himself, has no interest in self development and taking care of their, his body and taking care of his mind, in due course you are not going to be attracted to him anymore. It is what it is. Equally, if you are not growing and you're not even attracted to yourself anymore, you're complaining, you're hating your life, you're feeling bored, you're feeling anxious with your, with your life, it means, you know, you're stuck and you're not feeling good in your skin and why would someone else find you attractive if you don't find you attractive? So I think the bigger goal is what can I do to feel more attractive to myself? You know, how could I take care of me? How can I self optimize? And if we all kind of share that goal of I'm lucky enough to live in a first world country, I'm lucky enough to have access. So many people don't have access. So many people are still in phase one feminism trying to fight for that. You have the access, you have the capability, you have the education, you have free stuff online, you have free podcasts, you have books, you have multiple things to help you become, you know, the confident attractive person that you are set out to be. Why not take that chance? Yeah, you know, and it's like you said, it's a genderless goal. Men and women should go after self optimization so that we create this society of self optimized people that make better choices. Men will not feel the need to go for, you know, woman after woman, random night out after random night out when they love themselves and they respect themselves enough, when they feel like they have value. Women will not feel the need to go for the next guy over and over again because they have self worth. And all that starts with you. It doesn't start with screaming at the top of your lung, lungs feminism. It doesn't start. Start with you, you know, demanding respect, demanding. You know, you. You earn these things, and you only earn them silently. This is the beauty of it. There's nothing that someone can say to me that will offend me. Like, there's really nothing that. I mean, obviously, multiple people went after me after I had Andrew on the podcast, and I know exactly why I. I decided to interview him. But when you hear big sentences or big terms that get hijacked, you are this. You know, how can you, you know, interview someone who is a sex trafficker? You allow for women to sex traffic. You don't care about women. And I'm just like, all right, like you. There's no words that you can possibly say that will trigger me because I know what I do in my private time, silently, how I vouch for women, how I build. Right. I don't. Those words are not going to penetrate at all, because I know what I do. But if I'm not doing the work, if I'm not really working on myself, working for societies, being of service to society, then words will trigger me. They will trigger me hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's. Words will stop triggering us if we just know what we're doing. We're silently working on ourselves, you know?

[B]

Yeah. 100. I think the last thing I'll add and invite your thoughts on is. And I'd be really, actually, really interested, you know, when you go through the process of creating your own family and how that changes. I mean, one thing for me is, like, I've, up until this point in my life, had to really just worry about myself and my husband. Now I'm creating life, and it's. It's impacted my energy naturally. Like, my body is literally working overtime.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so all this stuff, right. Building my foundation and my confidence and having my own things and working on my relationship, like, I haven't actually had the energy to do a lot of that to the degree I would like. Why I'm bringing this up is it's kind of. I feel like I've felt the friction of leaning more into my feminine, which is not so much doing, and it's not so much ticking things off and achieving. It's actually just being. And that's valuable enough in and of itself. And letting my husband hold that space and seeing him kind of go on like he's not really affected by the pregnancy physically. Right. And it's put us in this again. Like when I think about the traditional, biologically speaking only frame of men and women where people look at that maybe as that's not fair, it's not equal, but it's put me in this position where I feel like you can easily resist it or you can surrender to it. And it's like you said, it's a season. Right. I think because of the pressure and a lot of the conversation that goes on about having to be these independent people and working on ourselves and all of that, I think I certainly felt like a bit of friction when this period came up. I wasn't being productive. I was being really critical on myself. I wasn't happy with my output that nothing to do with what my husband was thinking about me. But just like surrendering into this new season was actually a bit of a difficult transition because I thought in my head that was going to happen when the baby got here, but it already started, like during pregnancy, I already had to start making space and kind of stepping back from the things I wanted because my body was already doing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like I wasn't physically doing stuff. I might have been sitting on the couch resting all day, but my body was doing stuff. So I know this isn't really linked to what we're just talking about, but I just think in a world where we're very focused on ourselves and growth and then we're going through something biologically which puts us back into, I think, why men and women are different and meant to be together. It's just I feel we don't need to have so much resistance and hate towards that and demonize. Like you said before, going full circle. We demonize men a lot in. In that movement and the conversation is very much anti them and for us. But. But there's such a beauty in our differences, you know, and it's not always that we're a team and doing things together. Sometimes one is taking the load and this experience is just sort of taught me that. So I don't know if you had any other thoughts on that. I just wanted to throw that.

[A]

I mean, I love that actually. But you know, there's like you were giving into your biology almost like you're giving into what your body is asking of you right now.

[B]

Yeah. Despite cognitively what I'm like, oh, I should be doing just as much.

[A]

Right? Yeah. But that's. That's the thing that goes back to what we Were saying earlier that if we were told that you don't need to be boss, babe, and you can have it all and you could do it all, all at once. If they just lay back a little bit, like, lay off. Stop pressuring me with that. You know that, that movement of like, we can do everything, we want to do it all. We want to go back into work after maternity and to be able to do it all and be at the top of the ladder. And sometimes it's hard. And most people, I mean women after 30 start having the, the positions I was talking about, like men and women, statistically, we're Talking about the UK and the US women have the higher jobs, higher pay in the 20, in their 20s, but as 30 and 30 and above, less, but naturally less, because half of them don't want to come back to work. They're getting pregnant. They're doing part times now. So naturally men can start taking over. But why are we upset about that? Like, why am I upset that I can choose to chill a bit, stay home and allow my husband to feel like, yes, it's your responsibility now to handle us, it's okay. That's not toxic masculinity. That is not putting a heavy load on men. That is actually giving them space to feel like you can lead right now. And I'm comfortable with it. What's a heavier load is when they're feeling like they're incompetent versus women. That women now are much, much pickier. Naturally, because we are well educated, we want the best of the best. When we're graduating, men are slacking off because they're being trained and groomed by women. Only women in schools, like most teachers, are women now. If you look at the stats, most of the teachers are women at home. They're losing the family unit. So men are leaving. They don't have men at home. They don't have father figures at home. Which is why I like the idea of pushing and promoting relationships and love and family unit. Because it is important for society to have a father in the house. It is not click of the fingers. I don't need no man. And I can just move, carry on with my life and do it on my own. Work on your relationship. We're not talking about toxicity here, a man beating you up. We're talking about the basics. I'm unhappy, I'm bored. You also made a vow. You also committed, for better or for worse. And the idea that you don't respect that vow anymore and you're not working through the Difficulty, Yeah, life is tough. Who's to say that life is going to be easy, you know, and if you, if you are aware that it's going to be difficult, there is going to be ups and downs. You will make better choices. You will say, I'm going to, you know, learn how to converse. I'm going to learn how to go back and forth with my husband on this. I'm going to try to make it work. But most of us are just trying to take the high road of, like, I could do it on my own. I don't need no man. And I was one of them when I was younger, in my 20s, I thought I could do everything on my own because that's a narrative that was like in my head all the time. And I was single. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I don't need a man. In case I don't find a guy, I don't need a man. If I'm able to. If I end up being by myself for whatever reason, God forbid, if I end up being divorced, I will do everything I can to make it on my own. Yes, but that shouldn't be the default. That should be now I need to try my best to be on my own. It shouldn't be the default of I don't need anybody. I could do things on my own. There's a reason why we're in a community, so we could all kind of lean on each other when we can, you know.

[B]

Yeah. 100. Well, I think we could probably talk at length for a lot longer. That's the time we've got for today, but I'd love to, you know, have you on again in 12 months. Time and see part three. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's been, it's been really nice staying connected, watching your journey, seeing what things you're doing. I really respect you. You're a, you're an amplifier for me personally, because I think what you do really inspires me and you're really down to earth and humble and I really love everything you share. So it's always a pleasure chatting with you.

[A]

Thank you for having me again. I appreciate it.

[B]

My pleasure. Thank you.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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