AG Bondi Hit with Epstein Subpoena

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Beat with Ari Melber

Episode: AG Bondi Hit with Epstein Subpoena

Date: March 5, 2026
Host: Ari Melber (MS NOW)
Notable Guests: Howard Dean (former DNC Chair and Governor of Vermont), Molly Zhang Fast (NYT opinion writer), Professor Melissa Murray (legal scholar), Chef Mario Carbone

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode covers the latest rapid-fire political news, focusing on three major areas:

• The bipartisan Congressional subpoena of Attorney General Pam Bondi regarding the Trump DOJ’s handling (or alleged cover up) of the Epstein files.
• The escalating Middle East conflict involving the Trump administration, U.S., and Iran—and its political consequences at home.
• An analysis of midterm Democratic primary surges, Texas turning competitive, and the broader 2026 political landscape.

The episode spotlights original reporting and in-depth discussion, with an emphasis on the continued fallout of the Epstein scandal and ongoing U.S. military involvement overseas, examining both legal/policy implications and electoral consequences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking Political Developments and Midterm Dynamics

[00:49 - 05:52]

• Record Democratic Turnout:
  Ari Melber frames the show by emphasizing unexpected, high Democratic turnout in the primaries—particularly in Texas, with James Talarico’s nomination challenging embattled Republican Sen. John Cornyn.

• Uncertainty About "Turning Texas Blue":
  Melber points out the persistent hope versus hard reality: “We've heard about this dream of winning Texas for a long time and it hasn't happened. But all eyes on the new nominee, James Talarico…” (00:49)

• Quoting and Contextualizing Political Shifts:

  • “He [Cornyn] has a runoff with Ken Paxton, who's faced a ton of corruption charges... against the highest democratic turnout in 20 years.” (06:38)

• National Political Backdrop:
  Disarray and infighting are noted on the Republican side, with Trump's foreign policy under fire by MAGA commentators and prominent right-wing voices (Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly).

2. Middle East Escalation and Trump’s Foreign Policy

[03:29 - 16:27]

• Summary of Escalation:
  Ari Melber details U.S./Israel attacks on Iran, NATO involvement, American casualties, and chaotic attempts to evacuate Americans. There’s skepticism about the administration’s endgame.

• Quoting the Critics:

  • “It is clearly Israel's war. Mark Levin wanted it. It's his war.” —Ari Melber (05:19)
  • “This looks like an open betrayal of the base.” —Howard Dean (05:52)

• Howard Dean Segment: Lessons of War
  Dean draws direct lines from his historic anti-Iraq War position to the present moment:

  • “I oppose the war from the start because I want a foreign policy consistent with American values. There is a fundamental difference between defense... and the doctrine of preemptive war.” (08:57)
  • “Trump has no conception of what it is to be a leader. You have to bring your people with you before you do something like this.” (15:11)

• Historical Reflections and Current Lessons:
  Dean and Melber elucidate differences between Bush’s post-9/11 Afghanistan case (with public backing), Iraq (based on falsehoods), and Trump’s Iran war, which lacks clear cause or public support.

  • “The government lied [about Iraq].” (15:31 - Dean)

3. The AG Bondi / Epstein Files Subpoena

[22:36 - 32:49]

• Congress Turns Bipartisan Fire on Bondi & DOJ:

  • Five Republicans join Democrats to subpoena AG Pam Bondi over Epstein files, despite the global turmoil.
  • Lawmakers highlight the Trump DOJ’s failure to meet legal transparency deadlines—tens of thousands of documents are alleged to be missing or withheld.

• Potential Cover-Up and Political Risks:

  • “There is zero reason why Pam Bondi and the DOJ right now are withholding those documents unless they don't want us to see them... DOJ has been in a cover up mode for many months.” —Howard Dean (24:21)

• Legal and Political Stakes (Panel with Maria, Molly Zhang Fast, Prof. Murray):

  • Republican Representatives Lauren Boebert and Nancy Mace spearhead pressure on Bondi, fueled in part by conflict within GOP leadership.
  • Survivors and journalists continue to spotlight discrepancies and redactions—victims’ identities released, but powerful figures remain protected.
  • Issue transcends partisanship: “It’s a nonpartisan issue. It’s every administration.” —Maria (29:39)

• On Congressional Precedent:
  The show notes that prior precedents (e.g., Hillary Clinton’s extended congressional testimony) could now be applied to Trump administration figures, intensifying the pressure.

4. Kitchen Table Politics: Economy, Food, & Cultural Commentary

[38:05 - 44:42]

• Inflation and Food Costs:
  Chef Mario Carbone and the panel discuss the impact of rising beef prices and food costs, touching on consumer and restaurant perspectives.
  • “We're all kind of feeling it. Rising beef prices... smallest herd of cattle we've had in decades. You're going to continue to see that cost go up as we continue to consume.” —Chef Carbone (40:24)
• Consumer Strain Meets Restaurant Luxury:
  • The differential between supermarket/household strain versus flexibility at luxury restaurants is emphasized.
• Pop Culture Banter:
  The team lightens the mood with “fall back” segments, including playful riffs on government regulation of sugar, chains jewelry, and hip hop references (e.g., Drake, Wu-Tang Clan).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Description | |-----------|----------------|-------------------| | 05:19 | Ari Melber | “It is clearly Israel's war. Mark Levin wanted it. It's his war. Ben Shapiro, Lindsey Graham, Miriam Adelson. That's obvious.” | | 05:52 | Howard Dean | “This looks like an open betrayal of the base.” | | 08:57 | Howard Dean | “I oppose the war from the start because I want a foreign policy consistent with American values. There is a fundamental difference between the defense of our nation and the doctrine of preemptive war.” | | 09:51 | Howard Dean | “We don't know if it's going to end up being a good thing…Trump seems unable to tell the truth about what his motivations were...he doesn't care what the legalities are.” | | 15:11 | Howard Dean | “Trump has no conception of what it is to be a leader. You have to bring your people with you before you do something like this.” | | 17:38 | Howard Dean | “I think Talarico is a young face, articulate, smart, and I think he's tuned into what Texas Voters want and I think they're sick of the corruption of Paxton and they're tired of the Washington centric Cornine. So I think we got a shot there. I really do.” | | 24:21 | Howard Dean | “There is zero reason why Pam Bondi and the DOJ right now are withholding those documents unless they don't want us to see them. And they're essentially part of this cover up.” | | 29:39 | Maria | “But he's right. And it's a nonpartisan issue. It's every administration. ...Maria Farmer...came to the FBI in the 1990s and she said they hung up on her.” | | 41:44 | Ari Melber | “It's the economy, stupid.” | | 43:20 | Host | “It's a party restaurant for some in New York. We've seen the Obamas have been there…” |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:49 – Opening overview; Texas primaries and the Talarico nomination
• 03:29 – Middle East updates, NATO/Iran, and initial panel reaction
• 05:19 – Right-wing backlash over Mideast war
• 08:57 – Howard Dean's anti-war roots and Iraq war context
• 15:11 – Dean: Leadership failures in new conflict
• 22:36 – DOJ/Epstein files, AG Bondi subpoena introduced
• 24:21 – Dean: “This is a cover-up”
• 29:39 – Nonpartisan nature of the Epstein scandal, historical context
• 38:05 – "The Chef and the Professor" segment: economy, food inflation, pop culture
• 41:44 – Ari Melber: “It's the economy, stupid.”

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Tone & Language

The episode is direct, pragmatic, and sometimes wryly humorous, especially as Ari Melber and guests blend sharp legal-political critique with references to pop culture and hip hop. Emotional moments (military families grieving, survivor struggles) are relayed respectfully, while political banter sometimes gets playful, especially in “fall back” and food culture chat.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Ari Melber successfully navigates the intersection of breaking political controversy (Epstein files, AG Bondi subpoena), war and foreign policy confusion, and domestic political shifts heading into critical midterms. With insight from high-profile guests like Howard Dean and engaging cultural interludes, the show offers a nuanced, energetic, and accessible primer for anyone tracking the most significant stories of early March 2026.

Transcript

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I'll be with you every step of the way. One in four was a fraud paying American. Not anymore. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com Specialoffer terms apply. Welcome to the Beat. I'm Ari Melber and we are living through a lot right now, including a major development in our democracy and politics. When you look at these midterm primaries, because what we can count today is what we can only estimate in the days leading up to those primaries, a surge in Democratic turnout. There are Democrats who are dreaming again. Although let's be clear, we've heard about this dream of winning Texas for a long time and it hasn't happened. But all eyes on the new nominee, James Talarico, who is squaring up against an embattled Republican senator there. He will give a victory address tonight at 8pm and that will be carried live on Ms. Now, if you happen to be with us last night with Rachel and the whole gang, we were watching that race, but you never got to that traditional speech. So that's tonight. Congress is also going squarely at Attorney General Pam Bondi. A new subpoena hitting today to demanding she testify about the Epstein files. This is another sign that the Epstein story is not going away and not for Donald Trump. I mean, this is the person that was supposed to be in charge of transparency. She was caught dissembling about the so called client list that she said she had and didn't. And that subpoena is of course bipartisan. So even as Donald Trump focuses on foreign policy this week, he has not stopped the Epstein onslaught, even from members of his own party. That's pretty striking. Now, I want to give you the update on what's happening in the Middle east. And I will tell you we're going to give you everything you need to know. But also look at what is a growing national backlash to Donald Trump's choice to suddenly launch a surprise attack. There are questions about the long term plan, about whether there was policy, planning and strategy here, and about something that has dogged this from the very first hours of the breaking news on Saturday. Why are we over there? And is it one reason or two or four? And why do they keep changing the reason? Today, the battlefield is clearly widening. NATO stating that it shot down an Iranian ballistic missile that was headed for Turkey. United Kingdom and France are sending out planes and ships. This is at best a skittish regional conflict and at worst, something that could turn out into what we would call a regional war if multiple countries just start attacking each other. Americans are trying to flee the region. It's very, very scary.

[Ari Melber]

It's a very scary, fluid situation here. I just feel like I'm in dire

[Howard Dean]

straits and I'm stuck here.

[Ari Melber]

We're Americans stuck in a situation that we didn't create, we have no control over, and we want to go home.

[Maria]

It's really made me realize that all

[Ari Melber]

I can do is pray and trust

[Maria]

God that he's going to get us home.

[Host/Interviewer]

That's the impact on Americans who are in the region. There are also the Americans who have died, six now identified publicly, four of them by the US Government. Six all told, were working in a tactical operations center in Kuwait, which is extremely unfortunate because according to the Post reporting, that area, which would have been in the foreseeable danger zone of this kind of attack, included them in a site that, as you see here, it says had little protection from overhead strikes. Here was the Pentagon today. This is what the fake news misses. We've taken control of Iran's airspace and waterways. Without boots on the ground, we control their fate. But when a few drones get through or tragic things happen, it's front page news. I get it. The press only wants to make the president look bad, but try for once to report the reality. Very defensive remarks there from the Pentagon chief, who is, of course, famously a former member of the press at Fox. This tragedy, the deaths of these Americans, has been covered far and wide, including by many outlets that obviously have no agenda against Donald Trump. There is reporting that he's firing back at what is basically become, in his view, a mutiny on the right over Iran. Quote Maga is Trump. The barrage of criticism is clear. This is Israel's war. This is not the United States war.

[Ari Melber]

It is clearly Israel's war. Mark Levin wanted it. It's his war. Ben Shapiro, Lindsey Graham, Miriam Adelson. That's obvious.

[Howard Dean]

I'm just gonna be brutally frank if it's gonna be a hard slog. I mean, that was not pitched in the 2024 campaign. It just wasn't. We are gonna believe it support. I was promised that this wouldn't turn into a larger regional conflict. It's hard to believe it. It's hard to was the no more Endless wars candidate in 2016 and 2024 particularly. And this looks like an open betrayal of the base.

[Host/Interviewer]

That's just some of what's coming in against the war on the right, including by pretty big voices Tucker Carlson and Megan Fox, excuse me, Megan Kelly, are Fox veterans. They've worked at Fox News. They have a big following. And that's the opposition. The larger picture is embarking on a major war in the Middle east with little effort to prepare the U.S. public. Politico rights is far from anyone's ideal election strategy. If you just want to look at the midterms. And that brings us to the news coming out of these states. Democratic turnout was high. There was a, quote, perfect storm, according to accounts in Texas where Talarico took the nomination, speaking tonight, as mentioned. And then you go to what he's facing. Not a mighty incumbent with a war chest, but a Republican Senator Cornyn, who has been now reduced to having to do a runoff. Mind you, he's been senator there for many cycles, but he has a runoff with Ken Paxton, who's faced a ton of corruption charges. And that was against the highest democratic turnout in 20 years there. Here's Talarico

[Howard Dean]

tonight. The people of our state gave this

[Host/Interviewer]

country a little bit of hope.

[Howard Dean]

And a little bit of hope is a dangerous thing.

[Host/Interviewer]

That is one state in North Carolina, you're also seeing that same enthusiasm gap we've heard about. Republicans say they're worried about it. Over 200,000 more voters voters there in the Democratic side than the GOP. Another poll has Donald Trump slumping. 59% disapproval. His approval is down. That's an economist YouGov account. This is a landscape that is already tough politically. That's true in all times when you have a second term president facing midterms. It was especially true here for the reasons that we all kind of know. Donald Trump has not governed through the center or worked with Congress. He has done a lot of things unilaterally, even when Republicans are in control. He's faced a string of setbacks that can be dizzying. Sometimes people lose track of cuz there's always some next crisis or scandal, much of it coming from the White House. But he has been rejected in some of his ICE deportations. He has been limited in his efforts to put American troops in the streets indefinitely. He just lost his signature tariff. War issue Prices remain high. Off year elections show Democrats in the lead. The turnout I just showed you has Democrats surging. And that's before launching a war of choice in the Middle east that to this day has not been explained coherently, consistently or directly by the president to the public, to the military, let alone an address to Congress. And so right now, tonight, we take this in at this moment, and we have invited a special guest for a special conversation to make sense of it. Governor Howard Dean has lived these issues in politics. He is, of course, a former governor and DNC chair, but he rose to national prominence as a presidential candidate who shook up the Democratic race in 2003 with clear early opposition to the Iraq war.

[Howard Dean]

I oppose the war from the start because I want a foreign policy consistent with American values. There is a fundamental difference between the defense of our nation and the doctrine of preemptive war. The administration launched the war in a wrong way at the wrong time. The capture of Saddam is a good thing, which I hope very much will keep our soldiers in Iraq and around the world safer. But the capture of Saddam has not made America safer.

[Host/Interviewer]

Governor Dean, welcome. We specifically picked that last quote because you made the point that a bad leader falling can be good. It doesn't mean that Americans are any safer at home. How do you view that in the context of Trump saying Khomeini was 86 and they got him out, so this is a good thing for America?

[Howard Dean]

Well, we don't know if it's going to end up being a good thing for America because Trump seems unable to tell the truth about what his motivations were. I think the one thing I would agree on is that Iran is a bad, dangerous place that has been causing a lot of trouble in the Middle east for a long time, not to mention supplying the Russians with drones and so forth to attack Ukraine. The problem is that the president has no capacity to lead. His MO Is bombast. He doesn't care what the legalities are. His legal counsels, if he has one, are just completely terrified of giving him any advice. Hengseth is a total lightweight, it appears so. We're sort of Doing something that may make sense in the long run just by accident, and it may not make sense in the long run. I think bombing a school and killing 150 kids is probably not a great way to start off being the good guy in this one. The biggest problem I think Trump faces is he doesn't have the American people behind him and he's violated the law and the Constitution. You do not launch attacks of this nature, which is an all out war without Congress. And I think Congress is going to get sick of this pretty soon. The Republicans are terrified of Trump. As we go into mid, get closer and closer to midterms, they're also going to be terrified of losing their job. And you can see that something like 30 people have already said they're not going to run again. And I don't blame them.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, it's really striking because we mentioned that you went through this politically and the things you were initially saying, there's the wisdom of foreign policy we can debate and then there's the politics. And the Democratic Party seemed politically afraid to oppose the war. They called it Vietnam syndrome and a lot of other things. But after your election cycle we got another anti war candidate as the nominee and he became a successful two term president. And I wanna show before he was president what Barack Obama sounded like. And this was the next cycle after your candidacy that I mentioned. Take a look. I don't oppose war in all circumstances.

[Howard Dean]

And when I look out over this

[Host/Interviewer]

crowd today, I know there is no shortage of patriots or patriotism. What I do oppose is a dumb war. Where does that history as we two wars total later, Afghanistan and Iraq look at a third preemptive or proactive American attack on Iran that may or may not spill out into a wider war. And do you see lessons learned either in your party or overall where unlike Iraq, we checked this week, roughly 59% widespread initial opposition to the Iran attack by Americans.

[Howard Dean]

Well, Iraq was at war based totally on pretense. There was intelligence in MI6 which knew very well Saddam did not have weapons of mass destruct nor did he have an atomic program. So either the president, who I like, George Bush, or his people were lying and they lied to the American people and started a war that not only went on for a long time and cost a lot of Americans their lives, but it also turned Iraq over to become a supplicant of Iran. So that was a particularly awful war. Afghanistan, which was also turned out to be a mess. I don't think that President Bush had any choice but go into Afghanistan they were harboring the people who'd blown up the World Trade Centers. This war. First of all, I don't have any confidence in Trump's leadership ability at all. I don't think he thinks things through, and I don't think he has a team that's able to think things through. And the few people that are able to think things through are afraid of him and don't dare tell him anything he doesn't want to hear. I don't think they know what they're doing. I really do think. I think Netanyahu really did convince Trump that this was a great idea. Netanyahu is a lot like Trump, except he's smarter and more cunning. And I think that had something to do with this. As you know, as I said in the opening of the program, Iran is a problem. They are bad guys and they've destabilized the world, and they're holding their own population hostage with a bunch of thugs, which is the basiji. And I'm not sorry to see them go. But you've got to prepare the American people. If you're going to do something like this and you've got to explain why it is you're going to do it, and you can't make up 18 different things and then say them sequentially and then expect everybody to sign on and say, this is a great thing. I am a little surprised that the right is opposed to this or some of the people on the right, the commentators. But I. The problem is the president never made his case. All of a sudden, he started dropping bombs, killed 150 kids, and that was the introduction to the war. This doesn't make any sense at all.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, you're speaking very clearly. And these things matter. Whether there is a foreign policy objective, so our troops know what they're doing and where that mission stops.

[Howard Dean]

What does the American people have to know? The American people have to have a sense. When George Bush went into Afghanistan, the American people were behind him because they knew that thousands of people had been killed on American soil by people who trained in Afghanistan with. To steal those planes.

[Host/Interviewer]

And some were clearly harbored. Yeah.

[Howard Dean]

And when we went into Iraq, the government lied about why we were going into Iraq. And I never saw anything. One of the most painful things I ever saw was Colin Powell, who was a man of great integrity, having to make this speech in the United nations, which he knew, and you could tell from all his body language was not true when he was making that. But nonetheless, I think Bush did do a good job of explaining Even though the facts were not true about why we were going into Iraq, that of course, eventually caught up with them. Trump has started out behind the curve. He didn't explain anything to anybody. We have no idea. We know Iran is not a good place and not run by good people. But we also know that there are a lot of Iranian people who want to stand up for the right thing and get rid of this government too. So there's lots of ways you could have done this. Trump has no conception of what it is to be a leader. You have to bring your people with you before you do something like this.

[Host/Interviewer]

No, what you're explaining is billions of dollars. What you're saying is clear and it's rooted in facts. And we need that, especially right now. I want to also get your views on what these primaries meant. You ran the DNC, you had a 50 state strategy. We're back with Howard Dean in 90 seconds.

[Howard Dean]

Tonight, the people of our state gave

[Host/Interviewer]

this country a little bit of hope.

[Howard Dean]

And a little bit of hope is a dangerous thing.

[Host/Interviewer]

That is the Democrats new nominee for U.S. senator in Texas. Governor Dean ran the DNC. First of all, I just gotta, you know, I keep it real, right, Governor?

[Howard Dean]

Yes, sir.

[Host/Interviewer]

Okay. People like you, I don't know if you're a part of it, but people like you have been talking about turning Texas blue for 20 years. It doesn't happen. So I just think everybody has to understand the baseline. It was as closes three points against Cruz. What do you see happening down there and what does it tell you that a longtime incumbent, John Cornyn, can't even get past 50% in his own primary on the Republican side, which shows weakness?

[Howard Dean]

Well, there's been a lot of talk about the Democrats forgetting how to connect with people, which I think is true, and being too beltway sensitive and so forth and so on. I also think that's an affliction with Republicans. There's a huge motion movement in this country to get young people like Talarika or Jasmine Crockett, who was also a great candidate who lost that race into power. I mean, to me it's unbelievable that a lobsterman from Maine could be leading the governor by 14 points in her primary for the Senate. But this country wants something different and they want people who can be in touch with the American people. And Texas, you know, Texas is different, but they're not that different. And they want the same things everybody else else does. I think Talarico is a young face, articulate, smart, and I think he's tuned into what Texas Voters want and I think they're sick of the corruption of Paxton and they're tired of the Washington centric Cornine. So I think we got a shot there. I really do.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, it's funny.

[Howard Dean]

I mean, I think we've got a shot in Ohio. I think we've got a shot in Iowa, not just North Carolina and Maine and so forth.

[Host/Interviewer]

You think the Democrats could win the Senate?

[Howard Dean]

Absolutely, I think they can. I think we will win the House and I think we very well could win the Senate. But we've got to understand the Beltway is not where you win elections. You win elections by knocking on doors like Talarico did in the suburbs and in the cities and talking to voters and not getting consultants from Washington to tell you how to run your campaign.

[Host/Interviewer]

Right. And there are so many things that are nonpartisan, but because politics involves parties fighting, obviously that gets more of the attention. This problem that we've seen both parties have of keeping people in office past the sell by date. The question of whether is Donald Trump getting better or worse at his job as he goes from 80 to 84, is he more or less focused? These type of questions that are fair game as they were back when people asked about Reagan's age and acuity also affect people like Cornyn where you say, oh, so this is the Republican solution. You keep these people in forever. I wanna show you one more thing, factoid before I lose you. Washington Post looked at the voter enthusiasm. This is one of those reliable indicators, more so than horse race polling over time. What do you see here?

[Howard Dean]

I think it's great numbers, but a lot of it reflects a very negative opinion of Trump rather than a positive effect on opinion of the Democrats. We have got to continue to do a better job connecting with people and we, you know, Sherrod Brown has always been good. Cooper's great in North Carolina. Talarico looks like a rising star in Texas. But we, we've got to remember these election is not going to be won with big donors in Washington D.C. consultant it's going to be one in the towns and in the cities and candidates have to get out there and make their case and they should not pay attention to what consultants are telling them to do. They, they can if they're any good. They feel what they should be doing. And that's what the Democrats, that's what young candidates are doing. And I think it's very exciting, really interesting.

[Host/Interviewer]

Governor HOWARD Dean FORMER DNC CHAIR thank you for being here. We covered a lot of ground. I think Donald Trump, I'LL tell you what's coming up next. Donald Trump would like everyone to focus on Iran or something other than the Epstein files. So imagine his anger that it is Republicans this week joining Democrats subpoenaing Attorney General Bondi over the Trump administration botched Epstein files. That story is next.

[Ari Melber]

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[Host/Interviewer]

the Trump DOJ's bungled, probably illegal response to the law requiring the release of the Epstein files is back in the news tonight because of Republicans who are not taking ag, Pam Bondi or Trump at their word. Essentially, a committee just hours ago voting to subpoena Attorney General Bondi. Five Republicans voted yes. They didn't even stall or say with everything going on in the world, we need a few more weeks. No, this is barreling back at the Trump doj. It's one day after lawmakers also dialed up the heat and and requested new interviews from seven others implicated in the case. From the files that have come out, mind you, a lot of these people were in the files that the DOJ had for years because they're old files. It's only the public disclosure that's putting on the heat. There's new reporting that tens of thousands of documents have also been removed. That is to say withheld or possibly illegally hidden by the DOJ, CBS has been combing through this. They found about 65,000 pages were there and removed. The Wall Street Journal reports it's about 47,000 total files, if you're counting the original file metric. The DOJ says they're actually under review and they could be ready for reproduction by the end of the week. Remember, all of this was on a legal deadline that they broke, then they came in late, then they pulled it back. At a minimum, this is a bungled, failed process of the transparency that Donald Trump ran on back in 24 and a law that he signed. And at most, it may be an illegal cover up. Lawmakers have been demanding the documents. The DOJ wants to say they're done with this document production. The problem is they've taken down documents. There is zero reason why Pam Bondi

[Howard Dean]

and the DOJ right now are withholding those documents unless they don't want us to see them. And they're essentially part of this cover up. I think that the Department of Justice has been in a cover up mode for many months.

[Host/Interviewer]

That's the pressure. We are joined by New York Times opinion writer Molly Zhang Fast and law professor Melissa Murray. Professor Murray, this is real pressure with Republicans joining in, whatever their motivations. What do you see happening tonight?

[Ari Melber]

So I think there's a lot going on here. The fact that Boebert and Mace are involved in this and Mace really led the charge here. I mean, these are two of the women, the Republican caucus, who have been really vociferous about their complaints, their grievances with Mike Johnson's leadership and with the president and with the handling of this particular matter. And they really brought it. And this was after Attorney General Pamela Joe Bondi said that she would actually be willing to brief the committee on this. And they were like, nope, we're going to stay and we're going to have an actual subpoena, which would force a closed door deposition, which would mean that Attorney General Bondi probably would not be able to engage in the kind of Real Housewives theatrics that we've seen in her other congressional testimony. This would be a much more focused inquiry, real questions, and she wouldn't be able to fall back on some of those talking points that she's done in past testimony.

[Host/Interviewer]

Molly, I want to kind of turn to you on the existential part of this. People say, what is reality? Does anything matter?

[Maria]

Right.

[Host/Interviewer]

People look at Trump who's gotten away with certain things, and they say maybe nothing matters. Or oh, it's naive and cute that you even think that anything's going to come out. And yet a lot of documents have come out. And then the ones they were hiding and messing up on their cover up got caught relatively quickly because we still have some working journalists and investigators and whatnot. And so I'm curious where you put this on the nothing matters spectrum, because as I've emphasized, and it's worth noting, even Republicans putting the heat on Bondi this week.

[Maria]

Yeah, no, look, the Nancy Mays thing is big. And I talked to a member of oversight who said that she really led the charge in this. And you have to remember these women in the House are really, really mad at Mike Johnson. Okay. We saw a lot of reporting about this. They have been really mistreated. They feel they've been marginalized. And what we're seeing is real blowback here. So I actually think this really does matter. And every time that these people testify, like these hearings, like, remember when Les Wexner testified, he implicated Trump.

[Ari Melber]

Right.

[Maria]

He said Trump came to the fashion show and I didn't understand why. And so every time you do this, it's a risk for these Republicans who are trying to make this go away.

[Host/Interviewer]

And then. Yeah. And this goes to, you know, the problem with narratives, they're simplified and usually false.

[Ari Melber]

Yes.

[Host/Interviewer]

So there's a narrative that Republicans let Trump get away with everything and that happens. And then people think if you disagree with that narrative, you're letting them off the hook or you're minimizing the problem. But like, that's a problem over here if you believe in oversight, which is in the Constitution. And yet at the same time, on this issue especially, they not only overruled him and passed the law, veto proof, but some, not all, but some of them are saying, no, we passed this law, you have to comply with it.

[Maria]

And I also think, like, if you're talking about narrative, it sure seems like this DOJ is trying to cover up. And, you know, it's almost like the COVID up has become bigger than the possible crimes.

[Ari Melber]

Well, it always becomes bigger than the possible. I mean, I think what's really striking here is that you have this law passed. One of the critiques of the law was that there weren't really penalties for non compliance. And we saw all of the issues with the redactions, the foot dragging with releasing the papers, the different tranches of documents that were released, and many people noted it was really up to Congress to hold the administration's feet to the fire when it came to this because there weren't teeth in the statute. Itself. And now they're actually doing it.

[Maria]

One of the things when you talk to victims and remember there are so many of these survivors and they're really all together now and they're talking for the first time ever, and they have this list that Thomas Massie has of 250 people, is that they're like, where are my 302? They know what they told the FBI. And now they're like, well, that should be in the tranche of files. So where are they?

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And that speaks to, again, the actual mechanics of a cover up this large are difficult. To that end, you say, oh, is it in Watergate, the COVID up took on a life of its own. Here's your obligatory Watergate reference between Bondi and one of the Republicans, Massie, who has pushed back on this. Take a look.

[Ari Melber]

Any victim who comes forward, of course, we would love to hear from them. 1-800- call FBI. Did you ask Mer Garland that the last four years, did you talk about Epstein?

[Host/Interviewer]

I am reclaiming my time. I'm glad you're asking about Merrick Garland. This is bigger than Watergate. When I don't answer question, this goes over four administrations.

[Howard Dean]

You don't have to go back to Biden.

[Host/Interviewer]

Let's go back to Obama. Let's go back to George Bush. This cover up spans decades. And you are responsible for this portion of it.

[Ari Melber]

The girls are fighting. What else can you say?

[Maria]

But he's right. And it's a nonpartisan issue. It's every administration. And I talked to Maria Farmer and remember she came to the FBI in the 1990s and she said they hung up on her. And she said, you know, she was vintage because they released her report.

[Ari Melber]

Well, it is something that goes back over multiple administrations. Like that is clear. And that exchange shows it. But it comes down to this particular attorney general who was charged with releasing the files, redacting them in a responsible way. And as the victims continue to note, these redactions are shambolic in many ways, preserving the anonymity of certain individuals, but leaving the victims themselves wide open to public scrutiny. And so that does seem like something the attorney general should answer for, whether it is in open court or here in this particular congressional setting.

[Maria]

We've seen 43. The Wall Street Journal had 43 victims whose names and sometimes their addresses were in these files. And these are women who have had a lot of abuse from the Internet and have really gone through a lot of targeting despite the fact that they are victims.

[Host/Interviewer]

So when you look at Donald Trump, who didn't want to release the files, then said, okay, we're done here. Often distracts. People can debate which thing is the massive distraction or not, but still isn't going his way. Every time you have a new subpoena, you either get the person and then you have the Bondi of it all, and you have the hearings and it's another day of Epstein, or you drag it out with fighting over whether they'll testify. And so I'm curious, Molly, as you look at seven new people, including Bill Gates, Democratic lawyer, other big names, Bondi and Donald Trump, seething in the White House, that for all of his power, and these are them, he can't get off this news cycle for a week break.

[Maria]

Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting. We think about James Comer for a minute, who is the. Who's the head of oversight. So he calls Hillary Clinton to testify. Bill and Hillary, four hours each. And he thinks, like, this is a sort of brilliant move. But what he's done is set a precedent now. So if you want Melania, if the gavel changes hand and you want Trump and Melania, and you say, well, there's no precedent for this. There, in fact is a precedent. And I thought Hillary did a really excellent job during those hearings. I mean, she's been through them. She knows how to put it back.

[Host/Interviewer]

And Professor Murray, you love precedents, precedents

[Ari Melber]

and precedents, and I love all of them. But there are a lot of precedents being set. I mean, we have Howard Lutnick, who is going to come in and testify as well. So, I mean, there's no end to where this administration could go and which personnel in this administration should be called on to answer for either activities that are disclosed in the files or the handling of the files themselves.

[Host/Interviewer]

And was it it not NAS who said, I'm out for precedence to represent me?

[Maria]

Yes.

[Ari Melber]

Yes, it was.

[Maria]

You just say, yes, yes, yes.

[Host/Interviewer]

He said, I'm out for presidents to represent me. A reference to dead presidents, which is slang for money, because the money has the presidents on them, but only from the past. Although Trump would like a coin. But what I did there was I flipped it into precedence. And if you want to use that. That with your law students, you can.

[Ari Melber]

I appreciate that. I'll give a hat tip to the great Ari Melber.

[Host/Interviewer]

Or just nasdinas. NASDINAS in your area.

[Maria]

I'm gonna use it.

[Host/Interviewer]

New York rappers represent DK in the house. You know, we take the moments where we can't. I want to thank our illustrious guests. Elections are here. We saw that last night and a lot of Americans are looking at grocery prices, inflation, the shelves and saying they can't live in Donald Trump's America. That's a theory that hurt the Biden campaign back when they were the ones overseeing high prices. Could it topple a Republican Congress? We're going to get into that tonight. Stay with us.

[Howard Dean]

Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet

[Host/Interviewer]

hamster Nibbles in our yard for me?

[Howard Dean]

Because I was so moved by how

[Host/Interviewer]

carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Huh, Nibbles gone too soon. May he scurry in peace.

[Howard Dean]

Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff.

[Host/Interviewer]

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[Howard Dean]

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[Host/Interviewer]

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[Howard Dean]

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[Host/Interviewer]

Play for [e-mail] let's chumba no purchase necessary VGW Group Void we're prohibited by law. CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Jumba Casino. We've been tracking several stories tonight looking at the Mideast where US And Israel are continuing these Iran strikes. The United States military has precision missiles that are using for the first time in this war to target specific sites. In Iran, the battleground has also expanded to thousands of miles away. A US Submarine sunk an Iranian warship with a torpedo all the way out in the Indian Ocean. This is a widening of the war. The Trump administration arguing that they are on top of things. They have control of the airspace. Many, including our allies, worried about a contagion where this spills out into a regional unending conflict. The Pentagon says it's now basically eliminated the Iranian navy. So that's what they're saying. Recall that as of last year they said they'd obliterated Iranians nuclear sites, a claim that they later narrowed. The Red Crescent Society indicates the death toll inside Iran is approaching 800 people. That's since Saturday. Israel launched new strikes into Lebanon targeting Hezbollah, which is one of those terror groups that, as we've reported, Iran has long supported. So that is another piece to Iranian attacks and footprints abroad. Now Iran is looking as well to deal with their own succession. The Times reporting that they are poised to announce a new leader who is the son of the now deceased former supreme leader. At least that would be a top candidate. And to put it simply, the New York Times reporting that would be a victory for hardliners or to put it in Trumpian terms, the opposite of regime change inside the United States. People are grieving those American troops that we've reported on who were killed in the war. So far, four identified, six total. Tonight we want to share with you what one family member told the AP about losing her brother.

[Ari Melber]

I still don't fully think it's real. I didn't think it was real when they told us because I just remember all of our conversations about what he was going to do when he came back. I can't help but thank just he was my little brother and he was probably really scared even if he didn't want people to know. I just really wish I got to tell my love him one more time because he was just so amazing.

[Host/Interviewer]

There is so much going on these days, but we still have time to bring in a very special conversation. These are two individuals joining us for their third such fallback. Professor Murray, of course, part of our family here and Ms. Now analysts, I want to remind everyone she co hosts the Strict Scrutiny podcast which you can look up. She's the author of several books, including a forthcoming legal book. And returning the iconic internationally known chef Mario Carbone, who leads a literal cuisine empire, New York, Dallas, Miami and more. His food has become a kind of cultural touchstone. Carbone is one of the greatest restaurants.

[Ari Melber]

Carbone is literally the hardest to get reservation in New York City.

[Host/Interviewer]

Maybe it never gets old.

[Ari Melber]

I had to get the viral spicy vodka rigatoni to see if it's worth the hype.

[Host/Interviewer]

Last table left in Carbon Calling plays

[Ari Melber]

on a rotary phone and it absolutely is with restaurants.

[Howard Dean]

And Carboni. Spicy rigatoni go hard.

[Ari Melber]

Truly an 11 out of 10.

[Host/Interviewer]

No spicy rigatoni, carboni go hard. He's opening up at the Miami Grand Prix this spring. The Chef and the professor welcome.

[Ari Melber]

The Chef and the Professor That's a great factory. There it is.

[Host/Interviewer]

There it is.

[Ari Melber]

There it is.

[Host/Interviewer]

Master of your domain. It's great to see you both.

[Howard Dean]

Both.

[Host/Interviewer]

Thank you so much to talk about. I want to know what's on your. Your list right now.

[Ari Melber]

So I would like to fall back from Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Yeah. So the Secretary of Health and Human Services is apparently now on a crusade against Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts and coffee drinks that he believes has too much sugar. And I just want to say, like, I have two problems with this one. When Michelle Obama was talking about, like, making school lunches more nutritious, everyone was talking about the nanny state. People were up in arms about that. No one is getting mad about this, which seems a little bit the nanny state. The second thing is Robert F. Kennedy has been very open and public about his past drug use. He notes that he was addicted to heroin and cocaine. He noted on a podcast that we

[Host/Interviewer]

discussed that on this show.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, he. He said that he snorted cocaine off a toilet seat. I have done none of these things. I have very few vices. I have one vice, and it is a latte, and I would like to have it every morning without shame, without judgment. Get out of my coffee. Coffee.

[Host/Interviewer]

Get out of my coffee.

[Ari Melber]

Get out.

[Host/Interviewer]

You know a little bit about food.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

You think you own latte at Dunkin Donuts?

[Ari Melber]

Well, not a Dunkin. Like a Starbucks latte.

[Host/Interviewer]

Right, Right. No, just chicken.

[Ari Melber]

Hey, don't. You're judging me.

[Howard Dean]

No, no, I was.

[Ari Melber]

No, you're judging me.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

Like, you don't go latte at Duncan.

[Ari Melber]

No, no, I go to Starbucks, but it's.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

I'm just.

[Host/Interviewer]

No, that's fair. And this.

[Ari Melber]

And he knows.

[Host/Interviewer]

And what do you think a little bit of sugar can. Can help a. A meal?

[Chef Mario Carbone]

A little bit sugar can help a Dunkin coffee.

[Host/Interviewer]

See, again, he's. He's shading the Duncan.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

No, I'm. I'm a Duncan guy.

[Host/Interviewer]

You are a Duncan guy. Dunk guy.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

Boston CRE Cream.

[Ari Melber]

America runs on it.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

Boston cream.

[Host/Interviewer]

Even if you take the government regulation out of it, is there a thing as. Is there such a thing as too much sugar?

[Chef Mario Carbone]

Definitely. Okay.

[Host/Interviewer]

Definitely.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

Yeah.

[Ari Melber]

But again, I just don't know if this is the man to be telling us that.

[Host/Interviewer]

I hear you on that. Credibility. What's on your list, Chef?

[Chef Mario Carbone]

I'm gonna fall back on some inflation issues. We're feeling. As a chef. We're feeling. But I think we're all kind of feeling it. Rising beef prices. We're all. I feel like we're all bulking up on protein these days. We're all kind of thinking about our protein intake.

[Howard Dean]

Steak.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

We're buying more beef. Beef prices are rising. So it's not just kind of the premium steaks, but I think it's at all level, all cuts and, and you know, the rancher life is not easy, and I think trying to, you know, be mindful of supporting it. Their costs are rising from feed to water, electricity, all things. It's the smallest herd of cattle we've had in decades. And you're going to continue to see that cost go up as we, you know, continue to consume it. Because protein intake is all the rage right now.

[Host/Interviewer]

And you're seeing this in your supply chain. Does it get to the point that, what, it cuts into your profits or you have to ra prices?

[Chef Mario Carbone]

Yeah, I mean, we're seeing it for sure at our, you know, at the high level of. Of kind of fine dining stakes. But you're definitely going to see it at like ground beef supermarkets as well.

[Host/Interviewer]

Right?

[Chef Mario Carbone]

For sure.

[Host/Interviewer]

I mean, this price problem is. Is so striking because we had a candidate say he was going to focus on this. The president has failed to bring down prices. That's a fact. People can debate whether that's fully in any government's control, but this seems to be a perennial issue, and sometimes in politics, we. We get it all wrong. We're over here looking at these national things, looking out, and in fact, this stuff bubbles up. And people are thinking about this in the grocery store.

[Ari Melber]

It's the economy, stupid.

[Host/Interviewer]

Build on it, speak on it.

[Ari Melber]

Well, I think people feel these things, these are true kitchen table issues, like what you put on your table, how you pay for it, the impact of it on your grocery bill every week is something that you feel very acutely like. I'm not the best cook, but when I do cook, I go and purchase things, and things are noticeably more expensive than they were even a year and a half ago. And that's something he said he was going to address. That was a big part of his campaign. Affordability, and we haven't really seen any impact on that.

[Host/Interviewer]

And being out there with restaurants, customers and people, what are the indicators you see? I mean, Covid was of course, a special case, but you see people ready to come out more or it dips off. When people have economic anxiety, listen, it's

[Chef Mario Carbone]

easier for us to pass it along to the customer. Right? You're in this. You're in this moment of entertainment where you've made the choice to go out. You're out on nighttime, you know, It's. It's experiential. Very different than at home.

[Host/Interviewer]

Sure.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

Where it's affecting your wallet and you're feeding your family. This is. This is a need and not a want. You're coming to the restaurant. It's a want. And I think you're. There's more elasticity in the ability to pass that along. I'm buying this great steak. It costs more today than it did yesterday. Well, we have to raise prices. Right.

[Host/Interviewer]

And having been to your restaurants, and I believe professor has. These are hot restaurants. So people don't just come for the cattle, they come for the people.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

I think people are more willing to be, you know, they're more willing to be loose with their cash. Is in. In an experience.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. It's a party restaurant for some in New York. We've seen the Obamas have been there. You both look great tonight. And I know you both well enough to discuss how you look. Cause we mostly deal in the substance. And I have to say, knowing how sartorially inclined you are, how do you feel about the jewelry? What in some environments we call a chain or a set of links? I mean, I'll tell you this. I've been at URLs that have fewer links than that.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

I'm feeling the Cuban links right now.

[Host/Interviewer]

Cuban links. Wu Tang reference.

[Ari Melber]

You know what? You know, I love a statement necklace. I've never been ashamed to bring one on the show.

[Host/Interviewer]

I love it.

[Ari Melber]

And I'm like, you will not. You will not cow me. Me. I'm going to wear this necklace.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

I didn't realize statement necklace was your thing.

[Ari Melber]

This is my. This is my job.

[Host/Interviewer]

It is now. Well, there are in. There are some songs where people talk about tucking a chain, hiding the chain so that you might not be robbed. Some people say, I never tuck my chain. In this case, I don't think you can tuck that chain.

[Ari Melber]

You can't. This is no Figaro, okay? It's the real deal, right? My people, these are.

[Host/Interviewer]

I got one more, but I don't know if we have time. Do we. Do we have time for one more?

[Chef Mario Carbone]

I think we do. Your show.

[Host/Interviewer]

Was it not Drake who said, God got so many chains? They call me Chaining Tatum.

[Ari Melber]

I am Chaining Tatum because I have three of these in different colors.

[Host/Interviewer]

You have three of those. Three of those. We learn something new every year. You look great. You sound great. Everything you're saying makes sense. I appreciate both of you being here.

[Howard Dean]

Thank you for having us.

[Host/Interviewer]

A lot going on. We will be right back. We do a lot on the show, but we also have some special guests that we talk to on our podcast. You can go on Apple Podcasts wherever you get your podcasts. Search for the Beat Ari Melber and you can find our new segments, including a new bonus round with the guests you see here, Gary and Emily. It didn't air on show. It's a bonus podcast and you can find it there.

[Chef Mario Carbone]

There.

[Host/Interviewer]

That does it for us.

[Howard Dean]

Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.

[Host/Interviewer]

Com to bury my pet hamster? I was so moved by how carefully

[Howard Dean]

he buried my electrical wires, I knew

[Host/Interviewer]

I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end.

[Howard Dean]

This is very strange, Angie.

[Host/Interviewer]

The one you trust. Define the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at Angie. Combination.