Todd Blanche (3:06)

it was a massive security success story. I mean, if you think about what happened, as far as what we know right now, this suspect barely breached the perimeter. We absolutely, absolutely believe that there is no better example of why this ballroom is necessary. Aside from all the very positive things the ballroom will bring to this country and to Washington, D.C. than what happened on Saturday night.

Antonia Hilton (3:30)

Can those two statements be true at the same time? It's all left people wondering why the GOP has been so quick to use the shooting as an excuse to back a ballroom. That one poll found only 28% of Americans support Trump, also igniting concerns that he's going to use the shooting as a reason to crack down on free speech, issuing a new demand that late night host Jimmy Kimmel be fired. We're going to get into all of that, but we are going to start with what we're learning about the suspect, the charges and security lapses. Joining me now is Rob d', Amico, Ms. Now national Security Intelligence analyst, also a former FBI supervisor and former member of the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team. His latest article for MSNow is titled the there's no excuse for the Secret Service failures we saw Saturday night. And then I also have Jeff Mason, White House correspondent for Bloomberg and former president of the White House Correspondents Association. He was there on Saturday night. It's great to have both of you guys. Rob, I'll start with you, though. You say there's no excuse for the Secret Service failures seen on Saturday night. When you heard Todd Blanche, the acting AG Speak earlier today, did you get the sense that he's taking all of those failures seriously?

Rob d'Amico (4:41)

No. I think the default of the administrations never admit that anything's wrong. And when you look at it like the individual agents, it's like me as a platoon commander in the Marines. If I left a gap in my defense overnight and the enemy got in and one of my Marines jumped on a grenade, saving another Marine, he still deserves a medal. He still performed with valor. But it's my fault that I set up a defense that was inadequate to stop someone, and that's what happened here. It wasn't those individual Secret Service agents that did what they had to do. It was whoever set this up. Didn't follow simple, simple security principles of slow down people's path to the entryway. A Serpentine. Even something as simple as what you see at tsa, where you just go back and forth, back and forth. Because if someone came up to that, they'd have to jump over or knock them down, Giving that Secret Service agent an additional 30 to feet to figure out that they're doing something nefarious and they'd be able to engage him better. It would have been a success if he walked out of the stairway with the weapons. A Secret Service agent saw him, stopped them, arrested him, and they slowly notified the President and Vice President, like, look, there's been an incident. We should probably take you back. And didn't have to climb on him. So the fact that they're saying it's a success, they're not looking at it. They're not secure enough in themselves to say, wait, we had heroic action, but we did something wrong in setting this up.

Antonia Hilton (6:08)

Rob, was there one single failure, something you saw on one of the videos that you've seen in the images that we've. We've all watched since, that just stood out to you as the most glaring, confusing of all the failures present that night?

Rob d'Amico (6:22)

The most glaring was allowing him to run. You can't. Action beats reaction every single time. If a person has a knife and they're 21ft away from me and I have a gun in my holster, he will stab me before I can draw that gun and engage him. It's just a matter of law enforcement principles that you understand that. So the fact that there was no barriers, there was no serpentine, there was no physical thing for him to get by, to run by, and then why was the gate even open at that point? The President's in the ballroom, no one's allowed entry. So you have physical barriers that someone have to get over. That's the biggest one. Then you can go into all the little ones about not checking id And I think that's complacency, having this event year after year. And as, as, again, as I learned in the Marine Corps from a general, complacency kills. When you get complacent with what you've done, you did it before. That's when mistakes will happen, and that's when you'll get killed.

Antonia Hilton (7:13)

Jeff, how are you doing? As you've processed all of this through the day, yesterday, today, I know that you, like basically all the other reporters in that room, leapt back into work, so I'm not sure you've had the time to process what you were present for, but what's on your mind?

Jeff Mason (7:30)

I appreciate that question. I'm still processing, as I think a lot of us are still processing what happened and what we went through, but certainly very, very glad that no one was hurt. That's a dinner, and it's an organization that I obviously care a lot about. And it was unusual to become part of the news and to experience what we did. And I think it's sad as well that it happened and that all the ramifications that will come from that for both the dinner and for the broader social questions that you've been talking about on your air today as well. But I appreciate your asking. I'm doing fine. And I'm just glad, both as a person and as a journalist, that no one was hurt.

Antonia Hilton (8:12)

I have to ask you too, Jeff, about this sort of push from the administration and figures around them, their supporters as well, online, to basically show what happened on Saturday as the reason, or at least one of the reasons they believe that Americans should get behind the construction of this $400 million ballroom. Look, I've never been part of the process of planning the White House correspondence dinner, but you have. And can you imagine a scenario in which it is appropriate for for it to actually take place at the White House? My understanding is the president is a guest, he is not the host. And so I just wonder if you can even envision a future in which that kind of arrangement would make sense and be appropriate for what this event is supposed to represent.

Jeff Mason (8:57)

Well, your understanding is correct. The White House Correspondents association is a private organization. I am no longer the head of it, so I don't speak for it. But I can tell you that it is a group of journalists who work for their own news organizations or themselves or our freelancers. We do not work for the White House, and we would not have access to the White House, be it a ballroom or be at the East Room, to plan an event like the White House Correspondents association dinner. So it's definitely not an apples for apples argument, even though I've certainly seen that President Trump and his allies are using it as another argument for the ballroom. But the ballroom, just as I can't imagine that it will be available for parents to rent out and plan their sons and daughters weddings there, it wouldn't be something that would be available that I can imagine for the White House Correspondents Association. And even if it were, that's not something that a private organization like ours made up of independent and neutral journalists would be looking for as a venue for that particular dinner.

Antonia Hilton (10:03)

Rob, the other thing that we've seen come out of this in terms of the arguments made by some folks in the administration, you know, is that the manifesto and what we've learned about this suspect at this stage seems to sort of justify an attack now or leveling blame specifically at the left, at Democrats. And when you look through his manifesto, it seemed incredibly complicated to me. And I want, I guess, your read on that. There are some biblical references in the manifesto, for example. And while at first the President described him as antichrist Christian, it actually appears from his background that he is somebody who regularly attended church. He actually even mentions people who've gone to his church and his community. In his manifesto, he mentions turning the other cheek, rendering unto Caesar. Those are all biblical references. And so it sort of struck me not as this sort of simple black and white case of a nihilistic person ready to burn it all down on the left, but as something more complicated. I'm curious, I guess, what your read of the story from that manifesto is.

Rob d'Amico (11:12)

It's always complicated. Almost every mass shooter has some type of manifesto or some arc that they go down where they see something. Then they get frustrated and they, and they feel they can't do something. And that frustration leads to other things. And it's based on principles and it could be religious. And he thinks he has to do something to get somewhere. But almost all active shooters have that. And it's built on a frustration. And they just get into a very complicated space thinking that this is going to solve what they, what their problems are. So as they pull this apart and they're going to see that, that for some reason he thought that on him and his obligation to whatever he was thinking as a religious or personal beliefs that he had to do something in order for whatever he wanted to come out. And sometimes it's just to, to, to get the, his story out to get the, you know, people to pay attention or in this case, you know, vengeance on people he thinks are doing it. But it's a very complicated process that they're going through. And again, as that, as that arc happens, when did he actually decide to do violence? What was that? There was some type of trigger that got him to that point. And, and you can say, you know, it, it, it may be a comedian making fun of something and, and you know, the first Amendment, that's not it. I mean, that's not it. That happens all the time. People get frustrated all the time. They listen to comedians, they listen to other people, and they don't go on shootings. There's something else in there, but it's easy to blame someone like that when you're against them.

Antonia Hilton (12:49)

And it certainly seems like people are trying to find easy answers and places to point and blame right now. Rob d', Amico, Jeff Mason, good to see both of you and thank you so much. Coming up, Trump World launching a new attack on the free press and the First Amendment, including another round of attempts to get Jimmy Kimmel fired. Plus, Maya Wiley on how Todd Blanche may ramp up Trump's abuse of power at the Justice Department. And later in the show, nationwide protests against ICE and Trump's deportation agenda. We're going to be back in just 90 seconds. This is a Monday.com ad, the same Monday.com designed for every team. The same Monday.com with built in AI scaling your work from day one. The same Monday.com with an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free.

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Antonia Hilton (13:52)

We're right now in a situation where

Molly Jong-Fast (13:54)

it's very difficult to understand what is real and what's not real.

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Donald Trump (14:08)

This was an event dedicated to freedom of speech that was supposed to bring together members of both parties with members of the press. And in a certain way it did because the fact that they just unified. I saw a room that was just totally unified. It was in one way very beautiful.

Antonia Hilton (14:30)

For a moment, some thought there might be a reset in the hours following the shooting. At Saturday's White House Correspondents Dinner, Trump struck a somewhat somber tone. But then within 24 hours, Trump reverted back to usual form and any restraint seemed short lived. He was back in a combative posture by Sunday. In an interview with CBS 60 Minutes, Trump repeatedly attacked the anchor Norah O' Donnell personally and the media more broadly for the act of asking straightforward questions about the shooting suspect. He writes this, quote, administration officials, they are targets. And he also wrote this, I am no longer willing to permit a pedophile, rapist and traitor to coat my hands with his crimes. What's your reaction to that?

Donald Trump (15:19)

Well, I was waiting for you to read that because I knew you would because you're, you're horrible people. You should be ashamed of yourself reading that You're a disgrace. But go ahead, let's finish the interview.

Antonia Hilton (15:29)

The other thing that he wrote in

Donald Trump (15:30)

the you're a disgrace. I'm not a king. What I am. If I was a king, I wouldn't be dealing with you. We have some great people in the press, some very fair people and people that are just on my side. But for the most part, it's a very liberal or very progressive, let's use the word liberal press.

Antonia Hilton (15:47)

You'll recall that in the days leading up to the White House correspondents Dinner, the reporting suggested Trump had already planned to lash out against the press. According to the Daily Beast, quote, donald Trump will launch a revenge attack on the White House media when he confronts them in person at a Washington dinner on Saturday night, then flee before there can be revenge. The event was, of course, evacuated before any such speech could take place. In his remarks following that evacuation, Trump admitted he had planned to be inappropriate and rough.

Donald Trump (16:18)

I was all set to really rip it. And I said to my people, this would be the most inappropriate speech ever, ever made if I said so. I have to save it. I don't know if I could ever be as rough as I was going to be tonight.

Antonia Hilton (16:32)

And Trump already announcing that he wants to reschedule the event. The organizers aren't so sure that's going to be possible. Earlier today, Press secretary Caroline Levitt blamed Democrats and the media. This political violence stems from a systemic demonization of him and his supporters by commentators. Yes, by elected members of the Democrat Party and even some in the media. Missing from that press conference, any moment of self reflection from the press secretary. Serving a president who has described political opponents as garbage scum, demonic animals, the enemy within and low IQ whose election related conspiracy theories have led to death threats against election workers. Whose administration pushed rumors that Haitians were eating cats and dogs. This as Trump is now reviving his feud with late night host Jimmy Kimmel. Calling for ABC to fire Jimmy Kimmel over a segment that aired Thursday night in which Kimmel staged a parody White House correspondents dinner roasting the President and the administration as comedians have done at past events. Here's the portion that Trump and the first lady seem to be referring to.

Rob d'Amico (17:49)

Our first lady, Melania is here. Look at Melania. So beautiful. Mrs. Trump, you have a glow like an expectant widow. You know Melania's birthday is on Sunday. That's right. She's planning to celebrate at home the same way she always does, looking out a window and whispering, what have I done?

Antonia Hilton (18:09)

That joke was obviously written and performed before the events of Saturday night. But it's now landing, of course, in a very different political and social environment. Trump calling for ABC and Disney to immediately fire Kimmel calling the segment, quote, far beyond the pale. I have two guests to break down all of this after a very quick break.

Rob d'Amico (18:32)

This so called White House press secretary wants to lecture America and lecture us about civility. Get lost, clean up your own house before you have anything to say to us about the language that we use.

Antonia Hilton (18:49)

That was Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries responding to Caroline Levitt's criticism after Saturday's shooting. And joining me now is David Folkenflick, media correspondent for npr and Molly Jong, fast contributing, opinion writer with the New York Times and Ms. Now political analyst. It's great to have both of you guys. So, Malia, I want to start with you. You were at the dinner for part of that evening, but you weren't there when the shooting unfolded. But you have a sense of the room, the history of this event, the tension, of course, leading up to that night. When you see the president's rhetoric that we've seen and there have been shifts in it just in the past 48 hours, what is the impression that you are left with here? Is there a serious grappling with the nature of political violence and everyone's role in it right now?

Molly Jong-Fast (19:39)

Well, I think there are two problems that are separate. One is the problem of the White House correspondent's dinner, which is is at best looks very the optics on it are pretty terrible and they always have been pretty dicey. The idea that you have members of the government and journalists and, you know, and lobbyists and all sorts of DC Swamp all together in a room very dressed up. And then I think it's worth realizing like we are in a very heightened moment in American political life and people are mad, but people are mad at journalism and politicians and everyone. And so I think it's important to sort of pull back and say none of this is happening in a vacuum. And I think that the anger that the American people have towards politicians is also sort of spilling out on journalists and why it's so important that things like the White House Correspondent's dinner probably don't happen anymore and that, you know, we raise that money for those scholarships in other ways because I think that as much, you know, our job is to cover these people. And at this moment, it really needs to be as clean as possible. And I think that even just the mere optics of the dinner are so distracting and I think they really undermine the fundamental premise of what we're supposed to be doing.

Antonia Hilton (21:03)

I understand you and I talked yesterday when I think so many people were still in shock. I was sitting with Eugene in our D.C. bureau, who was there and who also has poured so much of himself into planning this dinner, into mentoring young journalists, into the incredible things that this dinner is supposed to represent, that people want it to be. But there is this tension right now between what we want it to be, what it traditionally has felt like, and just the reality of the moment that we're all living in. David, for you, how have you processed the imagery, the symbolism of that night? You know, one of the things Molly pointed out to me yesterday was just that there is the gratitude, of course, everyone is safe. But there is also the reality, too, that we as journalists, we've covered so many shootings at which poor schoolchildren in Uvalde didn't have Secret Service people leaping over tables to rescue them. And we and our colleagues did. And I guess after you see and you experience and you understand something like this, what obligation do we have as an industry, as a profession moving forward?

David Folkenflick (22:17)

Well, there's a lot of jumbled emotions. I don't think we have to create a hierarchy of tragedies to acknowledge both the terrible language one feels, even unrelated to what happened to folks at Uvalde or at other school shootings or other mass shootings, as well as acknowledging the terror and the terribleness of what occurred on Saturday night. I was not present. I don't think we've seen the President fully grapple with what it is to be engaged in political rhetoric, which is in some ways inciting or affirming the idea of violence, or at least violent political rhetoric as part of everyday norm in public life. I think there is something to what Molly's talking about with the question of this very event. I haven't gone in over two decades. I don't blame those who do. I think it can be useful as well as fun. But I do think that there's a time or there's a lack of trust in the elites in American society, sometimes so called elites, sometimes actually. But powerful figures in media and commerce and business and entertainment and politics, the highest level of politics altogether. On this night, one was desperately hoping and gratified that there would be no actual violent acts occurred. And the one officer who was shot was protected by his protected gear, as we understand. But this is a moment where I think it would be useful for rhetoric to be ratcheted down in all parts. And yet the idea that somehow some columnist Somewhere, some blogger, somebody on substack, somebody on cable news, on any of the networks, whatever flavor of variety you like is responsible for this seems to me to be wide of the mark. I just think that there is far too much violent political rhetoric in public life right now. And I think it's become very accepted in kind of the conversational vernacular of podcasting and blogging and posting online and, you know, getting things viral on TikTok and everywhere else. And at the same time, you know, you've seen that filter down from the top and top echelons of government. And I think that. I don't know that I blame that for what occurred Saturday night, but I sure would feel a lot more comfortable if the people in prominent positions in all of these institutions would behave themselves in a way one would want to see emulated rather than avoided.

Antonia Hilton (24:41)

Well, speaking of some of those implications and people in prominent positions, Molly, I want you to listen to some of Acting Attorney General Todd Blanch's remarks earlier, implying the reporters critical of the president may have a role here in all this.

Todd Blanche (24:57)

Many people in this room, if we're gonna be honest about it, has done it as well. They're just as guilty as a lot of people on X. When you have reporters, when you have media just being overly critical and calling the president horrible names for no reason and without evidence, without proof, it shouldn't surprise us that this type of rhetoric takes place.

Antonia Hilton (25:20)

Molly, are the people in that room, the reporters we know and we work with, are they just as guilty as a lot of people on X? I mean, well, we're at the very beginning of this investig in the first place.

Molly Jong-Fast (25:30)

I mean, there are so many problems here. I mean, one is that we do have a First Amendment, and the idea that speech is somehow violence is, you know, pretty nutty. And remember, like, we are in a country that has a major mass shooting and gun problem. So, like, that would be where I would start if I wanted to stop violence. Like, that seems like a very easy one. But the second thing I would say is, like, he is standing next to a woman who was a host on Fox News, okay? And there are numerous members in this administration who have been on Fox News. So the idea that somehow being a cable news host is somehow right. I mean, these are. This is a government that's filled with people who are Fox News hosts. So that I also think is pretty nuts. But again, like, this is an administration that has really gone after the First Amendment in every which way. And I think it's really important that we, you know, obviously the rhetoric is bad, and it needs to be. We all need to be very responsible with the way we talk about things. And that I think has. Is always true. But I do think that, like, we could look at massive gun problem in this country, and we should look at the way in which that this speech seems very partisan.

Antonia Hilton (26:52)

Well, part of this, I mean, to bring it back to the conspiracy theory point earlier, too. It all seems interconnected to me because to your point, Americans are aware that we have a gun problem. The polling consistently shows that they are angry about that gun problem, then it is not addressed, despite them making those feelings very clear. Then they're told or they're lectured about their language, while also being told that by the same members of the same administration that free speech is paramount, that they're against cancellation, that people should be able to say certain things, and that they've made the same argument you just laid out there.

Molly Jong-Fast (27:22)

Right.

Antonia Hilton (27:23)

And so I think when you are keep. You just keep receiving these contradictory messages, the very clear and factual messages that are out there aren't acted upon, that leads to this moment where people just don't believe anything they barely believe. I mean, I have people in my life who are not conspiracy theorists, not followers of Alex Jones, saying, I think this was all staged. And it seems all of this is connected to me, because if you're inundated with all of this and you feel completely ignored from all of these establishment figures, what other conclusion are you going to come to?

Molly Jong-Fast (27:52)

And that is why I think at a moment when people seem really angry and really disconnected from the mainstream media, we do not need to have the mainstream media at having dinners and honoring different members of the administration or politics, politicians of any, you know, Democrat or Republican. I mean, this is a moment to really show a certain cleanliness about what reporting is and explain to people what reporting looks like. And, you know, reporting is different than opinion writing, and all of these sort of nuances are, I think, as important as they've ever been at this moment.

Antonia Hilton (28:25)

It is really important, I think, for us to show that we hear and we work for the public we listen to and that we, when we are in front of the powerful people and we do get to be in the room with them a lot, whether it's at a dinner or wherever else it may be a campaign event, as there will be many in the coming months that we're there to ask questions on their behalf. And so I think we have a lot of questions, and we're not gonna be able to solve them in the hours right after what happened this weekend, but certainly in the weeks and months ahead, especially with the question of will this dinner actually be rescheduled? We really do need to confront that. David Folkenflick Molly Jong Fast. Thank you both so, so much. Ahead, protests across the country as residents push back on new ICE warehouse detention facilities. First, Maya Wiley is here on Trump's DOJ leadership and their plans. What their plans expose new heat on Cash Patel after a quick break, Close your eyes. Listen to Monday.com feel the sensation of an AI work platform so flexible and intuitive it feels like it was built just for you. Now open your eyes, go to Monday.com, start for free and finally, breathe.

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Antonia Hilton (30:08)

Turning now to new reports of chaos at Donald Trump's Department of Justice. New Today Politico reporting on a legal loophole which would allow Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche to stay in the role for months without Senate confirmation, citing a federal statute that authorizes the president to keep an acting AG in place for 210 days, meaning Blanche's clock runs out just days before the midterm elections. Politico also noting the job appears to be Blanche's to lose, quoting one senior White House official who reportedly told them Blanche is, quote, racking up wins this as many in Trump's cabinet are looking over their shoulders. A top White House official telling Politico that FBI Director Cash Patel is likely next, saying Trump is fed up with the negative stories about him. The FBI is declining to comment on all that. This all following an explosive report from the Atlantic which states, quote, patel has alarmed colleagues with episodes of excessive drinking and unexplained absences. Patel is suing the Atlantic for defamation, but the magazine says they stand by their reporting. Joining me now on all of this is Maya Wiley, former SDNY civil prosecutor and CEO of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. Ooh, I want your big thoughts on the state of Trump's Justice Department, but also just a sort of like legality check on what's happening with Todd Blanch here. Is it really fine for him to stay in this interim acting position for the next 200 or so days.

Maya Wiley (31:40)

You know, there are really two ways to look at the Todd Blanche question. I mean, one is we have competing statutes. And some legal experts will say, no, Trump can't do this because there's a statute that has a limit on time. And then others, well, no, but there's another statute that doesn't have a time limit. So you have a competing statute problem. Even legal experts have differing views. This is a contested area. But the other way to look at it is what changes whether he's interim or not interim. The demand from Donald Trump is a department that serves him, not the people of this country. The audition that Todd Blanche is engaged in is one that is about proving that he will continue to be Donald Trump's lawy rather than the lawyer of the people.

Antonia Hilton (32:28)

Where do you see the evidence for that? What tells you he's auditioning right now?

Maya Wiley (32:33)

Well, let's look at what the Politico article itself said from someone unnamed from the White House. You put the quote in there. Todd Blanche is, quote unquote, winning. Winning because he is bringing indictments against organizations like the Southern Poverty Law center, which, full disclosure, is a member organization of Leadership Conference, a long standing civil rights organization, one that has called Trump allies like the Proud Boys people he has pardoned, hate groups and extremists like, we also know that they are fighting for fair maps in Southern states when Donald Trump is fighting for gerrymandering. So what's the big win here? Because there's an indictment of a civil rights organization that does lawful advocacy work on behalf of people who are poor, people who are black, people who are brown. And when a Todd Bl is actually Yari has a demonstrated record of being a Trump loyalist and being willing to use the position in the number two slot, like what we saw with the Epstein files in his meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell and her now ending up in a Kashir situation. There is really a long list and we don't even have time to go through it all. But I would say the White House person who was interviewed themselves made it plain. If he's going after people Trump wants

Antonia Hilton (34:00)

persecuted, and that is success.

Maya Wiley (34:03)

That is success because it's not even winning the persecution, by the way, the very act of using the power of government to try to silence people who are disagreeing with Donald Trump, people who are using the rights that we have under this Constitution to protect people. That's what's at stake. And that's what Todd Blanche is willing to Do.

Antonia Hilton (34:23)

So then why do you think FBI Director Kash Patel isn't on more solid ground? I mean, he has done his very best to push anyone he thinks is a perceived enemy of the president out the FBI, even though we've had expert after analyst after former FBI official on this air describing how dangerous all that is for the American public, the risks, the domestic and international risks that could bring for all of us. Sure, there have been the headlines of him drinking with, you know, Olympians and all of that, but it seems like he gave it his best shot, if that is the rubric. He gave it his best shot.

Maya Wiley (34:56)

Oh, well, so did Pam Bondi under that rubric or Kristi Noem. I mean, a lot of the people he's pushed out went hard for him. It wasn't whether they went hard for him. Did they also bring blowback? You know, and I think it's one of the strengths of the advocacy and the protest and so much of the work we're seeing with normal folks just saying, you know what? This is a problem. It's a problem if Kristi Noem doesn't care if citizens are getting killed by ice. It's a problem if Kash Patel is getting his girlfriend. Not only security detail is, you know, going after journalists for being journalists, but also the drinking. I mean, I don't know. Kash Patel got an oversight letter from Representative Jamie Raskin, which was the first time I've ever seen a member of Congress essentially ask for a Breathalyzer from an appointed. And some of the reporting on that was that they don't like the distractions. In other words, it takes away from the fear they're trying to drive when the very people they want to drive the fear here are under attack.

Antonia Hilton (36:01)

Maya Wiley, thank you for always speaking plain. Always. Good to see you. Good to see you. Up next, backlash as the Trump administration works to expand ICE warehouse detention facilities all across the country. After a quick break, The cameras following the ICE agents may largely be gone, and the spectacle of a violent immigration crackdown has faded. But behind the scenes, the machinery of mass deportation is all still running just out of view or behind the walls of massive detention centers. Protests were held across the country this weekend, centering on the administration's massive expansion of ICE warehouse facilities. Several are literally retail warehouses built with brands like Amazon in mind, and they're being converted for the detention of thousands of human beings. The people who live near these sites, many of them in small towns that never thought they'd be on the front lines of this. They're panicked by the prospect of inhumane conditions across the country today, hundreds took to the streets from Maryland to Utah and right here in metro Atlanta, all with one stop, the expansion of immigration detention. Protesting the ICE detention center set to come to Utah, people gathered in Marietta yesterday to protest the Trump administration's immigration policies. More than 160 demonstrations as part of a nationwide day of action. The anger is surfacing in communities of every background. But a feeling of betrayal in red towns runs deep. I recently traveled to Social Circle, Georgia, a community of about 5,000 people that overwhelmingly voted for Donald Trump. And they're staring down the possibility of a 10,000 person mega detention center tripling the population of their town and straining all of their infrastructure. Do you think it's ultimately going to change the way people feel toward their elected representatives?

Local Resident (37:56)

I think it will in this area. I think it will in this area for sure. This is an ideological, this is real hard facts on the ground. You elect people who are going to represent your interests and their first duty is to protect the citizens that they represent. And how can you say that they're protecting us right now?

Donald Trump (38:18)

Now?

Antonia Hilton (38:20)

And joining me now is Veronica Cardenas, an immigration attorney and former assistant chief counsel for ice. Veronica, it's good to see you again. I want your reflections on this past weekend of protest over these ICE warehouses and the fact that these protests, these movements, they're starting to bring people who didn't just vote for this president and who would tell you themselves that they are pro ice, pro border security, that this movement is starting to bring those people to the front lines, too, too.

Veronica Cardenas (38:49)

Thank you so much for having me, Antonia. And this was a really interesting piece, the whole segment about the warehouses, because when we think of immigration, it was an us versus them issue. Enforcement was done at the border and it was away from the interior. Now that's been seeping into our backyards, as people had stated. And they're building these warehouses that are literally in some of the people's backyards. And so when we think of this issue now, it's no longer an immigration issue, it's an enforcement issue that's affecting everyday Americans. And the more that this continues, the more that this mass, I'm not even going to call it a mass deportation campaign anymore. It's a mass detention campaign. Because when you look at the statistics right now, detention is at 60,000 people. So when you're building warehouses that are going to house another 10,000, that is a lot. That's a huge jump. And so where is this administration going to get those numbers from. So everything is pushing closer to this detention campaign, and it's at the expense of the America as we know it. We've seen this administration target birthright citizenship. We're seeing them run programs for denaturalizations, and we're seeing them ignore the very people that elected them and their interests.

Antonia Hilton (40:07)

You know, one of the things that's always happening in the background here, too, that I don't think enough Americans know about, Veronica, is the partnerships that ICE has built with local law enforcement. You know, these 287 agreements, it's a term people don't pay a whole lot of attention to, but it's part of the reason why I was describing this mass deportation campaign and the machinery of it as drumming along in the background. Because people are getting brought into this dragnet day in and day out. Even if you're no longer seeing Greg Bevino go out into Chicago or to Charlotte or in Los Angeles and lead these massive campaigns, they are quietly continuing, and there are these thousands of future beds that they want to fill. Are you worried that because it no longer has the same visual, I guess, resonance or alarm that the blitzes and the spectacle used to bring, that eventually people will just accept these new warehouses? They'll move on, they'll forget.

Veronica Cardenas (41:05)

I used to have that concern, but I don't anymore, and I'll tell you why. One of the things from the reporting that you did that was interesting was a person who said that this, that before this warehouse was bought, that property was bought, his issue was dealing with a shrinking pond and some dead fish. Now he's dealing with a warehouse being built right next to him where he may not have enough water because the town doesn't have enough water to support this, where there will be sewage issues. And so the problem has increased every day. It's not just the 287 program that people are being detained. It's other ways, which we don't really know how. We can just see patterns like people who purchase new cars the next day. ICE is tailgating them and arresting people. So they do have these ways that they're going after people and less visible ways. But it doesn't mean that the public is. And the Americans are feeling it any less. More and more, I think the way that this is going, this detention campaign, this mass deportation, Americans are going to feel it because we are all connected in this economy, and at one instance or another, we're all going to feel this if they want to.

Antonia Hilton (42:16)

I want to ask you, with my last couple seconds. The White House posted this proposal to change ICE to National Immigration and Customs Enforcement. So the acronym would become nice. You can see the image there. What do you make of that?

Veronica Cardenas (42:35)

The rebranding is just. I mean, it's. Nothing surprises me anymore with this administration. And if it thinks that the American public is that naive to think that anything else is going to change besides the worst nice instead of ice, you know, they're. They're just in for a big surprise because like I said, every day that passes, the more and more people get detained, people from our community, people who are embedded and deep, deep ties to our communities, the more that the tide is turning against these enforcement campaigns.

Antonia Hilton (43:15)

Yeah. Veronica Cardenas, always good to talk to you. Thank you for sharing your expertise. And you're gonna be able to catch the full Ms. Now documentary Under Siege Social Circle on YouTube right now by scanning the QR code on your screen. We're going to be right back. So that does it for me.

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