BONUS: Tom Hanks on ‘Progress’ and Characters Who Do What’s Right

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Beat with Ari Melber – BONUS: Tom Hanks on ‘Progress’ and Characters Who Do What’s Right

Date: March 9, 2026
Host: Ari Melber
Guest: Tom Hanks (Actor, Filmmaker, Novelist)

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Episode Overview

In this special Summit Series episode of "The Beat," Ari Melber welcomes legendary actor and author Tom Hanks for an in-depth, wide-ranging interview. The conversation delves into Hanks’s debut novel, his career choices, what draws him to certain roles, the intersection of art and values, the enduring importance of decency, and his views on America’s progress and persistent challenges. With humor and thoughtfulness, Hanks discusses storytelling, cynicism, empathy, and what it means to "do the right thing," offering memorable moments and lessons both for fans and for those pursuing creative paths.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Write a Novel? (01:31–03:55)

• Hanks discusses his motivation to write The Making of Another Motion Picture Masterpiece, reflecting on the friendships, stories, and lessons from film sets that inspired him to fictionalize the movie-making process.
• Quote:

  "I had never read a fictionalized version of the making of a movie that matched my own experience... The challenge I laid out for it was if the reader has some understanding of just how nearly impossible it is to get a movie made, then I would have succeeded with my endeavors." – Tom Hanks (02:42)

2. The Chaos and Artistry of Filmmaking (03:55–05:31)

• Ari reads a vivid excerpt from the novel, prompting Hanks to reflect on the unpredictable mix of business, artistry, and pressure behind the scenes.
• Quote:

  "What has to always then come together is a bunch of folks who are going to be willing to work under incredibly pressurized atmosphere of time, money, and then the psychological aspects of all the personalities." – Tom Hanks (04:55)

3. On Criticism, Cynicism, and Respect for Craft (05:31–08:28)

• Hanks unpacks the novel’s argument that “hating a movie misses the damn point,” explaining how he’s outgrown youthful negativity and learned to appreciate the effort behind film, even when it doesn’t “work.”
• Quote:

  "There isn't a movie that's made that doesn't have some element in it that says, well, can't deny how good that is." – Tom Hanks (07:21)
  "I actually think Turner and Hooch did work. But I think the... That that's about as..." – Tom Hanks, on honestly assessing his own films (08:24)

4. Channeling Characters: Acting vs. Writing (08:36–11:03)

• Hanks compares embodying characters on screen with writing multiple viewpoints in fiction, emphasizing the common thread: caring deeply about people and their stories.
• He highlights the importance of every crew member on set, likening their collective contributions to “the stones of the pyramid of any movie.”
• Quote:

  "Even a greensman will come in and have this tiny, tiny, tiny impact on the quality of the shot and therefore the quality of the motion picture and the quality of that moment." (10:25)

5. Iconic Roles and Instincts Over Strategy (11:45–16:02)

• Ari plays a mash-up reel of Hanks’s most famous moments, leading to a discussion of how Hanks chooses roles—not by chasing iconic parts, but by following instinct and saying “no” when not inspired.
• Quote:

  "The hardest thing to say in the business... is saying no to something. That’s hard. Easy to say yes." (15:03)

6. A Return to Decency and Anti-Cynicism (16:06–19:15)

• Ari notes the recurring decency and lack of cynicism in Hanks’s characters. Hanks explains that he has always approached life and roles with pragmatic optimism and a willingness to “see what happens.”
• Quote:

  "They are not optimists... but they are not cynics." (16:46)
  "There was always a card to play... Ain’t that how life goes on? Well, let’s find out what happens. There’s always something that we can do, and if we don’t know what that is now, wait, wait. And an option will make itself visible." (17:57)

7. Tom Hanks in Hip Hop Culture (19:53–22:34)

• Ari surprises Hanks with a montage of hip hop references to his films and persona, underscoring the multi-generational, cross-genre reach of his work.
• Hanks reflects on the kinship between authentic storytelling in hip hop and the themes in his films: resilience, keeping it real, and inclusion.
• Quote:

  “Any kind of, like, true artistic creation is about examining some sort of mystery... maybe hip hop artists are not necessarily the type that are going to be celebrating being rocked back on their heels, but instead just being the opposite. Well, let’s lean into the feeling that is necessary here.” (21:17)

8. Art, Decency, and Exclusion: The Case of Forrest Gump (23:11–24:06)

• Hanks notes that Forrest Gump resonates because it addresses being told “you don’t belong here,” speaking to those who are excluded—an antithesis to community and art.
• Quote:

  "We ain't nothing unless we're a part of something bigger than ourselves, which is our community." (23:48)

9. On Success, Validation, and Staying Grounded (24:42–31:26)

• Ari revisits Hanks’s Oscar win for Forrest Gump, prompting Hanks to recall the collaborative process of making the film and how awards can momentarily “mess with you.”
• Hanks humorously notes how fleeting praise or “credit” can warp perspective, but that it always passes and the work remains.
• Quote:

  "Attention comes and goes. Credit, you know, it can really only land for a little while and after that you just have to get back and do the hard work." (29:40)

10. Portraying Social Issues and “Political” Roles (31:26–36:09)

• Ari brings up Hanks’s “socially conscious” movies; Hanks notes these were chosen for their truthful depictions of Americans under pressure, not for politics’ sake, though they often involve values and empathy.
• Quote:

  "Aren’t we all trying here to somehow create a more perfect union? Well, creating a more perfect union requires dispassion and inclusion and community. And that means you might live next door to somebody who celebrates different holidays from you." (35:13)

11. On America’s Progress and Ongoing Struggles (37:40–40:10)

• Hanks reflects on living through America’s changes since the 1960s, crediting the nation for slow but steady progress while reminding listeners how far there is to go towards liberty and justice for all.
• Quote:

  "We have made fantastic progress. We are getting closer and closer and closer to a perfection that we will never actually make..." (37:40)

12. Exchange with the Queen: Democracy & Historic Change (40:23–41:54)

• Hanks recounts a conversation with the Queen of England on the mechanics of democracy, comparing American experiences with those in nations lacking peaceful transitions of power.
• Quote:

  “What they don’t know how to do is change leaders... through any process other than death.” (41:22, paraphrasing the Queen)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Not Hating Movies:

  “Hate should be saved for fascism and steamed broccoli that’s gone cold. The worst anyone should ever say about someone else’s movie as well was not for me, but actually I found it quite good.” – Hanks (06:09)

• On Roles:

  “The hardest thing to say in the business... is saying no to something. That's hard.” – Hanks (15:03)

• On Art and Community:

  “We ain't nothing unless we're a part of something bigger than ourselves, which is our community.” – Hanks (23:48)

• On Progress:

  “We have made fantastic progress. We are getting closer and closer and closer to a perfection that we will never actually make.” – Hanks (37:40)

• On the Summit:

  “And reaching the summit means you have to climb back down and make that route safely.” – Hanks (45:40)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:31 – Tom Hanks on why he wrote a novel
• 03:55 – The complexities of making movies
• 05:31 – On liking vs. hating films and appreciating the collaborative effort
• 11:45 – Montage of iconic roles, discussion of instinctive choices
• 16:06 – Decency and anti-cynicism in Hanks’s characters
• 19:53 – Tom Hanks’s resonance in hip hop culture
• 24:42 – Discussing the Oscar win and collaborative filmmaking
• 31:26 – Socially conscious/political roles
• 37:40 – Reflections on America’s progress
• 41:22 – Anecdote about democracy from Queen Elizabeth II
• 42:24 – Lightning round (fun rapid-fire questions/answers)

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Lightning Round Highlights (42:24–45:44)

• Acting or directing? – “Acting.”
• Hardest part of acting: – “The battle of self consciousness. Knowing what you look like and what you sound like.”
• Hardest part of writing fiction: – “The bleeding for three hours at a time at your keyboard.”
• Most underappreciated film: – “Cloud Atlas.”
• Most quoted lines: – “Wilson!” / “Run, Forrest, run!” / “There’s no crying in baseball,” etc.
• Who should play Tom Hanks in a biopic? – “Because of deepfake technology and AI, I believe I can play myself.”

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Closing Takeaways

This episode is a masterclass in humility, craft, and reflection. Tom Hanks shares his belief that progress—personal, artistic, and societal—is slow, complex, and ever unfinished, best achieved through decency, empathy, and community. The conversation is rich with stories and wisdom, from the mechanics of filmmaking to the heart of American life and the enduring power of keeping faith in each other.

“All glory is fleeting.” – Tom Hanks (45:34)

“Show up on time, know the text, and have an idea.” – Tom Hanks (Best advice—45:17)

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For fans, creatives, and anyone interested in the intersection of art, values, and progress, this episode is a must-listen—and truly does justice to the breadth of Tom Hanks’s iconic career.

Transcript

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[Ari Melber]

Where's that dang paperboy? I need my news outdated and rolled up like a burrito. Finally. Now I can read all about what happened forever ago.

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[Ari Melber]

Welcome to the Summit Series with Ari Melbourne. We have a very special guest for this interview today, a man who really needs no introduction, but we will do one. Tom Hanks, two time Oscar winner, six time Oscar nominee, 15 time Golden Globe nominee, eight time winner with the lifetime achievement award. He starred in over 80 films, actor, director, producer and now novelist. His debut novel, the Making of Another Motion Picture Masterpiece is out now. Tom Hanks, thanks for being here.

[Tom Hanks]

I feel like I'm a poster boy for attention deficit disorder. Way too much. By the way, welcome. Thanks for coming to my rec room here in my home.

[Ari Melber]

We have a lot up here for you.

[Tom Hanks]

Had to move the ping pong table and the Game Boy out of the way. But this is where I really do like to come and just rest and ponder. You know, my place in the zeitgeist.

[Ari Melber]

Well, your place is firm in the Zeitgeist. We'll get to that. I want to start with the book which really reads well. I don't want to say it's a surprisingly good read because that would.

[Tom Hanks]

Why not?

[Ari Melber]

Well, that would only compare you to perception because you haven't written a full novel before. So here's your first novel. But you have a lot of experience in fiction. What made you want to go from bringing fiction to life on screen to writing it yourself.

[Tom Hanks]

Well, I don't think there's anything more fascinating than talking to somebody, asking them this question, how'd you get here? What did you do? What brought you to do this for a living? And do you still have the same passion for it now as you did when you began the journey? That is an awful lot of the conversation that goes on in the course of the long downtime of making a film. And it is the best. I think it's the best, most rewarding part of being a human being on a film set. You talk to an awful lot of people, you hear their stories, and it becomes something other than co workers. They become some kind of friends or in some cases, role models. And I had never read a fictionalized version of the making of a movie that matched my own experience. And when the time came to think, I felt as though, as a writer, I wanted to write a novel. The question is, well, what would it be? And the challenge I laid out for it was if the reader has some understanding of just how nearly impossible it is to get a movie made, then I would have succeeded with my endeavors.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And that comes through reading from the book. It says, quote, making movies is complicated, maddening, highly technical at times, ephemeral and gossamer at others. Slow as molasses on a Wednesday, gun to the head, deadline on Friday. Imagine a jet plane, the funds for which were held up by Congress, designated by poets, riveted together by musicians, supervised by executives fresh out of business school, to be piloted by wannabes with attention deficit disorder.

[Tom Hanks]

Okay, now that's. That's a. That's a movie that goes off the rails.

[Ari Melber]

That's not all movies that.

[Tom Hanks]

No, there is somewhere in the aspect of it, there is someone who makes a decision that is kind of just like junior executives from business school. They decide, no, that could actually work. Our marketing team could do something with that. Now, that has nothing to do with the artistic aspects of the movie. It's got nothing to do with the theme that it is examined. It's pur. A business perspective. And you might be starting with source material that seems to be an airplane designed by poets in which the ephemeral aspects of it are much more important than the engineering aspects of it. But then what has to always then come together is a bunch of folks who are going to be willing to work under incredibly pressurized atmosphere of time, money, and then the psychological aspects of all the personalities that have to come together and show up on a Thursday or a Wednesday in order to shoot a Seven page walk and talk in the rain before the sun goes down.

[Ari Melber]

Well, you say before the sun goes down. I mean, one of the interesting things is how much work you all in a group put in to making something fake seem real or making something planned and artificial seems spontaneous. And you kind of have a bond with that. I mean, you. You make movies because you can and want to, not because you have to at this point in your career. And so you have this line here from. In the novel, from the director character who says, yeah, some movies don't work. But, quote, hating a movie misses the damn point. Would you say you hated the seventh birthday party of your girlfriend's niece or a ball game that went 11 innings and ended 1 0? You hate cake and extra baseball for your money. Hate should be saved for fascism and steam broccoli that's gone cold. The worst anyone should ever say about someone else's movie as well was not for me, but actually I found it quite Good. The question, Mr. Hanks.

[Tom Hanks]

Yeah.

[Ari Melber]

Are you channeling yourself and your own feelings there, or is that something else?

[Tom Hanks]

No, that is something that I discovered a while back that so much of my default setting is cynicism. And when you're a young man and you're in college and you know, you're opinionated and you have your favorite films, it's, oh, come on, that was a horrible movie and it was God awful. And that person's terrible and I'm so sick of looking at him. Yeah, you can have that kind of like jealous quality aspect of looking at something that's been done, but as soon as you make a movie for the first time, you realize how hard everybody works and do. I have not seen a movie that I have, quote, unquote, hated, but without a doubt, I've seen movies that, even if I'm in them at the end of it when the closing credits start rolling, you can't deny that, you know, it didn't quite work. It didn't quite land.

[Ari Melber]

So you don't agree with that character.

[Tom Hanks]

I think that somebody in my position should be very, very careful as Spot is saying, I hated a movie. Because there is something that could be. I think the idea of saying, oh, no, it was quite good because there isn't a movie that's made that doesn't have some element in it that says, well, can't deny how good that is. Sometimes the writing's not there. The performances are first rate. Sometimes the performances are caught by accident and the writing's FanTast. Sometimes a DP brings something to it that is a bit. Or even the cut that something that did not work somehow works. After all, the editors and the mixers and have to do. I think the kindest thing that you could say about. Well, let me pick out a movie here. The kindest thing you could say, oh, let's just say Turner and Hooch. I think that might be the oldest one out there. I think the worst thing you might be able to say that could still be honest with it is perhaps didn't quite work. I actually think Turner and Hooch did work. But I think the. That that's about as.

[Ari Melber]

But is that because the dog upstaged you there?

[Tom Hanks]

If you are act. That movie should have been called Hooch and Turner because there's no doubt who was number one on the call sheet on that one.

[Ari Melber]

So I don't want to get too, you know, metaphysical here about art, but in your acting, you channel people. And many folks think you do that really well. In your novel, right? You're getting into the vantage points of multiple people. Is it for you a different muscle? Or is it that same thing? Because you're clearly interested in people in a way where you get into the details.

[Tom Hanks]

Every movie begins at a square one that has nothing to do with any film anybody involved with it has made in the past. So you are starting off with this great confluence of energies and desires and visions. And I don't think I've heard a great story about someone that I've worked with that I have not remembered and carried with me along with it. And also then pondered. You know, if you worked in the biz, Ari, you never leave during the close credits. You know, you let that title roll. Cause you see, oh, I worked with them. Oh, Connie was on that thing. Oh, look, Helen was on that. Oh, look. Oh, the greensman. He was Agreeman on Fin. You see all of this roll by, and I don't know if I'm actually answering the question properly, but those are. Those are the stones of the pyramid of any movie. You know, the people who have made it all the difference. Sometimes there are accountants in the front offices, but there are sometimes, like I worked with a greensman. And a greensman literally is the guy in charge of the greenery that is in a set. And it is part of the composition of a shot. There are times when you need a plant either in the shot or removed from the shot. And that person. Actually, it's amazing how often somebody whose job is. You don't think is all that important will come around and put Their head by where the lens is, scan what's going on, and then instinctively start going on and making small, little changes from their perspective. And even a greensman will come in and have this tiny, tiny, tiny impact on the quality of the shot and therefore the quality of the motion picture and the quality of that moment. When you again, are examining the theme of the movie, and everybody on a motion picture has that moment sooner or

[Ari Melber]

later, well, it almost sounds like a generous perspective that you're leaning into. But then the novel, of course, proves the point because. Because you show the intricacy you show, many people are there. As for your film career, we don't want to embarrass you with your own riches, But I've been studying your interviews, and they're always talking about the most recent project and then on to the next. Yeah, we here for you. Join us in the cemeteries. Put them together. I warn you, it's a little bit long. It's about two minutes.

[Tom Hanks]

Oh, geez. But it pulls on cable tv, that's an eternity. How are you going to work in the Seattle's commercials if we're going take two minutes?

[Ari Melber]

Unavoidably long, because it spans some of your work. Let's take a look.

[Tom Hanks]

Okay. It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood. A beautiful day for a neighbor. Would you be mine? Houston, we have a problem. This is the captain. Brace for impact.

[Tom Hanks Movie Character Voices]

I don't know how to swim. I don't know how to swim. Come back.

[Tom Hanks]

Wilson.

[Tom Hanks Movie Character Voices]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[Tom Hanks]

Wilson. Are you crying?

[Ari Melber]

No.

[Tom Hanks Movie Character Voices]

Are you crying? Are you crying?

[Ari Melber]

Can I borrow five bucks?

[Tom Hanks]

Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

[Tom Hanks Movie Character Voices]

There's no crying. There's no crying in baseball.

[Tom Hanks]

How about some coffee or, you know, drinks or dinner or a movie? For as long as we both shall live. We have 10 hours till the deadline, so we dig in. This. This can't be this. The Fleur de Lis. The truth is, I knew it was you. Now, maybe I didn't get the cuffs on you, but I knew. You said this was just business. Is this business? Is this how you do business? That man gets up on that stage

[Tom Hanks Movie Character Voices]

tonight, you are a toy.

[Tom Hanks]

Sorry I had a fight in the middle of your Black Panther party. Don't you dare let that little red dog piss on my walkway again. We always go in with our ideals and we change the. And then we leave. What am I going to say? That it was my job? The social death which precedes. Which precedes the actual physical one. Just not every man I kill, the farther away from home I feel. She looks like my third grade teacher. I hated my third grade teacher. Wait a minute. She is my third grade teacher.

[Tom Hanks Movie Character Voices]

This is the Polar Express. I'm David Pumpkins.

[Tom Hanks]

I'm Rick. Rick Martin. Oh, Walt. You gotta call me Walt. Mr. Doozy was an old man. Isn't that right, Don? It may not be Miller time, but it is vanilla time.

[Tom Hanks Movie Character Voices]

Shimmy, shimmy, Cocoa Bob. Shimmy, shimmy, rock. I met a girlfriend. A trisket. She said a trisket. A biscuit.

[Tom Hanks]

All right. Kudos on the Love Boat, Ari. There's not a lot of. Not a lot of folks are gonna dig up that clip, but I did the Love Boat in June of 1980.

[Ari Melber]

The whole team put it together. Are you ready for the question?

[Tom Hanks]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What's the question?

[Ari Melber]

Are you skilled at bringing these iconic roles to life or are you really good at picking iconic roles?

[Tom Hanks]

Either one of those would be a type of qualitative thinking that I think is the antithesis of following one's instincts. I am only interested in what all those guys are going through. There's plenty of opportunity. Look, a lot of people want me to be in their movies, you know, which I'd like to be able to do.

[Ari Melber]

Seems that way.

[Tom Hanks]

You do enough of it. But I think I figured out a long time ago that the hardest thing to say in the business. If you actually are like Wang, what are you gonna do is saying no to something. That's the hard. Easy to say. It's easy to say yes. And you might have the inclination to say yes a lot because you're bored. You're gonna get to go somewhere. You're gonna work with people that you want to. They're gonna pay a nice chun. If there is this other aspect of it, of I don't have an instinctive drive to this. I'm not afraid of what this material is. I don't have any questions about where we're going to go. It's all pretty much right there. It's hard to say no. And I think if I have. If I'm going to lay claim to any kind of, like, clairvoyance on it. It's just that a no has to be no. And that could be confounding sometimes.

[Ari Melber]

There's no single through line there.

[Tom Hanks]

I'd hope not.

[Ari Melber]

But there is a returning decency in these characters. Whether that's how they are on the page or what you bring out of them that clearly go ahead I would

[Tom Hanks]

say that what is reflected in it is a lack of cynicism. I think the default place of an awful lot of commerce and no small amount of art and kind of like enterprise and the cultural exchanges based on cynicism. Oh, come on. Oh, there must be something else to it. You can't really mean that. That's just an image. Oh, do you actually. Come on. That's. That. That's Goody two shoes.

[Ari Melber]

Oh, he was just gonna die for his country.

[Tom Hanks]

Who buys that? Oh, you don't really actually think you're gonna make it across the country without breaking. Where did you break? Where were you scared? And that's not me, and it never has been me. I am not. I don't wake up with a. I got to get to the bottom of this. I don't wake up that way. And I think those characters are all. They are not optimists. I won't put them that way. They're not easy pushovers, but they are not cynics. They are. Do not appreciate. They don't say, ah, that's not going to work out. Because my life has always been, well, let's see what happens. You know, I moved around a lot as a kid. I did not think, oh, no, I'm leaving my home. Just the opposite. I said, great, let's try something else. That's the way I felt. And I don't think I've ever jumped, volunteered to be part of an enterprise without thinking, I don't know how this is going to go out, but I know how I want to approach this. And that's. Maybe that might be the only thing that happens. But these are all. These are all here in my rec room here in my.

[Ari Melber]

I feel like we really messed with you doing this. It's on your mind.

[Tom Hanks]

But here are. Here are, I think, an awful lot of people that have a degree of faith in whatever personal exchange and powers that they have. They don't know. I don't think none of them know absolutely anything. They don't know everything. But they do have faith that when something explodes on the way to the moon. Well, you know, I remember talking to, you know, too literally, Jim Lovell and also Fred haise during Apollo 13. I said, well, how do you. What were you doing? We were on the far side of the moon and wonder if you're gonna get back with. And they all said, well, there was always a card to play. There was always, you know, it's essentially a long game of. Long game of solitaire. And there was always something that they had to plan on doing sometime in the future, Even if it was just turning the. Switching the aft omni to forward omni transmission from one side or that. And I think, ain't that how life goes on? Well, let's find out what happens. There's always something that we can do, and if we don't know what that is now, wait, wait. And an option will make itself visible.

[Ari Melber]

It makes a lot of sense when you put it like that. And I think people definitely connect with that arc. I mean, that's why the classic stories work hundreds of years later and others don't. And we'll leave it to historians to decide where you fit in. But a lot of folks respond to that classicism and the way that it connects across boundaries. We live, as we know, in a world with tons of categories, but you've resonated in different countries, in different generations and onward also. And we'd be remiss if we didn't get into this here. Tom, in hip hop. Do you know how big you and your work is in hip hop?

[Tom Hanks]

I do not.

[Ari Melber]

You don't?

[Tom Hanks]

No.

[Ari Melber]

This is not connecting for you?

[Tom Hanks]

Did I do something connected to hip hop?

[Ari Melber]

No. What you did is something connected to the human condition, which has been celebrated across a lot of songs, including by big artists. So I'm thrilled because you're everywhere. So if this is new to you, that's great. This is Tom hanks in hip hop. Take a look.

[Tom Hanks]

Competition small so I live big like

[Ari Melber]

Tom Hanks Women like to watch you got mail with meg ryan and Tom

[Tom Hanks]

Hanks like Tom Hanks I heard long bank and cast you away.

[Ari Melber]

I'm in the league of my own

[Tom Hanks]

Tom Hanks good people going great places.

[Ari Melber]

Running on my.

[Tom Hanks]

I was screaming run44 but you kept running past it Mama told me never

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fold Run, run, run like jenny told forrest gump run, run, run the race for freedom ain't one run, run, run wow.

[Ari Melber]

Killer mike's the last one. The race for freedom ain't one run.

[Tom Hanks]

Holy cow.

[Ari Melber]

What do you think?

[Tom Hanks]

Holy cow. Well, having had my finger on the pulse of hip hop, as Tom harrix does, I think that what I get from that is that in the realm of hip hop artistry, There is a leaning into an instinctive drive. There is a thing that there is. I can't. I don't want to overuse the word theme, but any kind of, like, true artistic creation is about examining some sort of mystery. And I would say that what those hip hop artists might be talking about is that same sort of faith. Hey, if you got nothing else to do, run across the country and think about it. You know, if you're in a certain kind of circumstance, approach the adversary, like in Captain Phillips, and said, hey, I thought you wanted it this way. I thought this was the business that we're talking about. That there is. I'm going to say that maybe hip hop artists are not necessarily the type they're going to be celebrating being rocked back on their heels and not being sure of what to do, but instead just being the opposite. Well, let's lean into the feeling that is necessary here. Let's reel into a truth, even if we don't quite land on it as soon as we want to.

[Ari Melber]

And one of the most celebrated themes in hip hop is keeping it real. And there are those, as you know, I've read you talk about this, who say, well, Forrest Gump was such a hit, it can't be great art. That's like over here. That's like a perception conversation to see. I mean, Frank Ocean, for example there, and Killer Mike, who's a very politically conscious artist. They're not saying, oh, Forrest Gump's not cool. It's not trendy. It's years later. And it's no keeping it real. If you grew up on that and it means something to you, they're weaving it in and putting it into their own art.

[Tom Hanks]

There might be something, I think, to the fact of. Is that, like, let's just take Forest, because that's the one. When do we make that 94? How many years is it now? It's coming up on. There's more than 30. I don't know, 30 years. 30 years. But it ends up speaking in that way because Forrest Gump was told by everybody, you don't belong here. You are not, what, smart enough any of this stuff in order to be here. And I think that might be speaking to a segment of the population that is often told that you're not allowed in here, you're not supposed to be in here, go off and be with your own kind, because nothing is going to translate between your life and mine or my life and yours. That is the antithesis of art, and it's also the opposite of community. And we ain't nothing unless we're a part of something bigger than ourselves, which is our community.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, I mean, I love that movie Del Gu. You like to like Ferre, and particularly because it's not overtly political, it's just steeped in American history. But it also makes you feel like what if you were there? And what would you do? And the decency and the value structure shines through above the other things that we're told matter. Right. We're told by capitalism and society that other things matter. It was, of course, highly celebrated as well. I don't mean to suggest otherwise. We have you winning the Oscar for it. Let's take a look.

[Tom Hanks]

Oh, okay. The Oscar goes to Tom Hanks in Forrest Gump. I'm empowered to stand here thanks to the ensemble of actors, men and women, who I shared the screen with, who in ways that they will never understand, made me a better actor. Man, I feel as though I'm standing on Magic leg in a special effects process shock that is too unbelievable to imagine. Well, yeah, I mean, that's a very private moment that plays out in front of 17 billion people around the world. So you gotta survive that, man. You don't want to trip. You don't want to use the F word when you're up on stage like that. But I will tell you that there, look, I don't remember that. In all honesty. That's.

[Ari Melber]

That's funny. So looking at that, you don't remember.

[Tom Hanks]

I don't recall saying any of that.

[Ari Melber]

So if this were a deposition, Tom, I'd say. Which is something we talked about.

[Tom Hanks]

I do not recall.

[Ari Melber]

You mean to tell me you don't remember winning that, Austin?

[Tom Hanks]

I do not recall. To the best of my ability, I do not recall. Here's the deposition aspect.

[Ari Melber]

Amazing.

[Tom Hanks]

Here in the legal.

[Ari Melber]

You're ready.

[Tom Hanks]

That's right. Welcome to the Deposition with Ari Melver. Tonight we'll be trying to go back to something that happened 34 years ago to our guest. But what I'm glad that I said there is that all of the great circus that goes into the. And by the way, the making of Forrest Gump was old school filmmaking. We had a sort of cutting edge special effect of the zelliging of Forrest into all these historic things. But it was shot on location, on film. It was like it was old school and we had to deal with all sorts of physical reactions. And I was empowered every day going to work in order to become make manifest this. This character that was only on paper by everybody else that was in it. You know, we would. I think one of the great things that happened in that was Bob Zemeckis, who is one of the. One of the paradigms of directing that Bill Johnson in the novel is based on one of many. His ability to sit down before we shot a single frame and asked questions like, well, what do we think of this? Most people think that you read the script, you show up, you do it on the day, and that's it. Yeah, they don't know the deposition process, the discovery process.

[Ari Melber]

Who was he asking? How many people?

[Tom Hanks]

All of us. He was asking me, Robin Wright, Michael T. Williamson, Sally Field and Gary Sinise. We were all in the same room. We were all able to talk about the entire movie, scenes that we were not in. And we were trying to suss out how Bubba and Forrest would deal with Vietnam, literally the war in Vietnam. And it was kind of like written as a comedy. Eric Roth, who was there as well, who has no ego, and Gary and I and Michael T. We also said, look, there's something wrong with the Vietnam thing because don't screw around with Vietnam, you know, don't turn it into a minor key aspect of what this story is. And from that came our approach to it, which was very different from kind of like the Buck Privates version that was in there. And so this part of the movie ended up having, I think, a substantial, substantially greater weight because all of us, all of the cast and Bob and Eric were saying, are we examining this theme as strongly as we need to? And the answer was no. And so we ended up coming up with a very different type of movie that was made by. Yes, we all turned out to be diabolical geniuses. Well, you know, the joke was if it only made $100 million, we would have been geniuses. But it made. So it entered into this other kind of place that there must be something going on there, there must be some diabolical message that is hidden behind. And all we do, I think, was we ended up capturing the story that just said, can you believe we're still here, those of us who are still here?

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And I'm curious whether that validation we showed the Oscar, as well as what you just referred to, affected you at all, Opened you up to do different kinds of stuff and run with it, or that was already your approach.

[Tom Hanks]

Well, I'll tell you, it ends up screwing with you in some ways. Like there's a character called OKB in the, in the. He's an actor.

[Ari Melber]

Well, he ruins that dinner.

[Tom Hanks]

He is so full of himself and he thinks that he's the greatest thing in the world. And I can tell.

[Ari Melber]

Pebbles hitting other people's cars.

[Tom Hanks Movie Character Voices]

Uh, yeah.

[Tom Hanks]

And asking question, hey, man, what happened to that lousy movie you made, man? What's the deal with that? Did you not know that that was a friggin disaster? I have said that to people because I had been burned by the white hot light of attention and credit. Attention comes and goes. Credit, you know, it can really only land for a little while and after that you just have to get back and do the hard work. You don't get to carry any kind of like massive cachet. All you carry with you, I think, is a degree of countenance into your next job. But, you know, that type of stuff happens and you think you're hot cheese, you know, for a while, and people treat you like hot cheese for a while. And then, guess what? This too shall pass any, any height that you feel like you've, you've reached. You get up to the top and you're like, oh, man, there's a whole other set of mountain peaks over there.

[Ari Melber]

How long did that adjustment take you?

[Tom Hanks]

Oh, if you're lucky, it takes six weeks. But if you're unlucky, it can, it can linger on for, you know, a couple of years because, you know, you don't have. When I did. When I did. But yeah, when I think my next movie. When did I make Bonfire, the Vanities? You know, I can't remember that. That's the type of movie that everybody was going in it hoping we were going to be making something fantastic. And at the end of the day, what's the best thing? Well, it's quite good. There's some good stuff in there, but it doesn't quite work there, does it? And great book. So no.

[Ari Melber]

You like novels?

[Tom Hanks]

Oh, well, Thomas Wolf. Those are the granddaddy of them. All those things are, you know, those are you. You get into the flow of that and you're on, you're on a kayak ride and doing On a Wild river on all of his stuff.

[Ari Melber]

I want to go to what could be called your socially conscious historical, or some people would call them political roles. Although there's this thing where if it's a big enough blockbuster, it's no longer a political movie, but you put your shoulder into it and, and things have evolved. But at the time, many of these were considered bold choices or not always obvious career choices, although in hindsight they might look different. So given that you are on the news, let's look at some of those types of political themed movies.

[Tom Hanks]

Okay? Politicians and the press, they trusted each other so they could go to the same dinner party and drink cocktails and tell jokes while there was a war raging in Vietnam. I don't know what we're talking about. John Coffey, you have been condemned to die in the electric chair by a jury of your peers. Sentence imposed by a judge in good standing in this state. Wouldn't you be more comfortable in a research room? No. Would it make you more comfortable? Let's spend a million on HR118 and rebuild the school. Charlie, nobody gives a about a school in Pakistan, Afghanistan. Now I think those are about process. Like what? Particularly in the Green Mile, the specifics of that. What goes into executing a prison. What's the routine? What's the process there? What are all the protocols? What are the things that absolutely have to happen? The reality of being in public in AIDS during that period of time, many, many people were very uncomfortable being in the room with somebody who had a. Just take a look at Larry Kramer on the Phil Donahue show in which, you know, there were cameramen that would not show up to work that day because they didn't want to be in the same room with a homosexual that had aids. That's the nature of what the fear was. Those are not. I don't view them really as being. They weren't political choices behind them other than truthful exposes of how people are getting on at that one individual moment.

[Ari Melber]

Can I push you on that?

[Tom Hanks]

Sure.

[Ari Melber]

I understand what you're saying. Cuz it's channeling something real. But several of those films, especially when we look at how many times you've taken whatever you want to call it, the Tom Hanks of it, or what some people call the star power, you've put it to help us understand that character who was marginalized at that time, or the lawyer who's being attacked because he is representing the unpopular accused. We were just talking about that walking in. Are those not in some sense also values, choices, if not political?

[Tom Hanks]

I will say that they only are political choices in that. Let's be transparent about what this is. There's not an editorial bent on trying to change anybody's mind. There's no saying you're wrong and I'm right and you better figure that out. Actually trying to take the passion out of it and making a dispassionate examination of what it is. If you've been fired from a job for one reason and one reason only, that you have age, is that a right or a wrong thing to do? That's it. So let's discuss whether that is right and what is wrong. All of the other types of stuff you go to, like for example, I mean, even on Captain Phillips, the reality is there's all these kind of like economic factors that go into the Reasons that. That guys from Somalia are willing to go off and kill people and try to take over the boys because they're starving to death now. Right? Wrong. No. Let's just understand that this is the confines in which we are all trying to get by.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, but does that empathy itself involve some worldview?

[Tom Hanks]

Yes, it does. Which is essentially kind of like what Spike Lee did with, hey, always do the right thing. What's the right thing we have to get down to sooner or later. All of this thing comes down to essentially an individual experience that what does that. What are the rights and expectations that individual have for the right thing to happen to them and the expectations of him to do the right thing as well. Aren't we all trying here to somehow create a more perfect union? Well, creating a more perfect unit requires dispassion and inclusion and community. And that means you might live next door to somebody who celebrates different holidays from you. All right, you're a big boy. You can figure that out. You can get by with that, can't you? You can, because that's what goes into doing the right thing.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense in real life.

[Tom Hanks]

Well, real life ain't movies, are they?

[Ari Melber]

No, you're in demand. We had President Obama, you know, decorate

[Tom Hanks]

you, who I voted for. Yes.

[Ari Melber]

And then you've spoken out also. We've got a little bit of you in sort of the real life in the Biden era. Yeah, let's roll that.

[Tom Hanks]

Okay. America is the home of the brave. It's why we keep getting up no matter how many times we get knocked down. In the last few years, we've witnessed deep divisions and a troubling rancor in our land. But tonight we ponder the United States of America. The election of 1876 ended with a compromise that ensured the continuation of racism and racist violence in our nation's culture and politics that has lasted to this day.

[Ari Melber]

Last big question, and then I'm hoping you'll play lightning round with me quick. The last big question is you are using your voice for a project. What do you hope we do from here at a time where you're speaking out, telling people, well, there's a broader history. We can at least learn the facts of that. Take with it what you will. We can be engaged in civic life as we showed you there. Some people opt out while they're banning books and maybe movies. What is on your mind at this juncture of where you hope we go

[Tom Hanks]

to show how far we have come? I'm 66 years old. America was an extremely different place when I was a kid, racially, in 1964, when the Beatles were on the Ed Sullivan show, you had to pass a test in order. A literacy test in Louisiana in order to vote if the registrar did not know your name or did not know where you come from. And just in order to have the right to vote, you had to answer questions that came out of. Were as confusing as something out of lateral thinking puzzles. We, as America have. It is a slow process that we have been on in order to perform a more perfect union, but we are making progress. It is slow, it is incremental. It is. I mean, we saved the world from twin racist empires in the mid 20th century with one hand tied behind my back because black Americans were not able to fight side by side with white Americans. We have experienced a countless kind of like two steps back. I mean, everything that you just said there, that, look, it was written for me, but I agreed with all of it. It's like we have made fantastic progress. We are getting closer and closer and closer to a perfection that we will never actually make. But the American system, and I think even in the choices that we all can make, in whatever work that we do, can move us toward inclusivity. So that when I was a kid and we pledged allegiance to the flag, even I'm 7 years old and I know it's not about the flag, it's not about this thing, but when we had to put our hand over our hearts, the important part of that thing that was being instilled in the entire seventh grade, seventh, second grade classroom, or fifth grade classroom was liberty and justice for all. And I knew at the time there was not liberty and justice for all. So I had faith that we were gonna continue along to work and do it. And we all end up playing some brand of part in Tell the truth when you have to, and don't be dispassionate about it and don't come up from a perspective of you are turning me into a victim. Dude, dude, we're all in this together. And all sorts of people have said this much, much better than I can. And I think I try to hint at it at all the work that I do, including the books I write.

[Ari Melber]

Well, I think that the novel and a lot of the work does more than hint at it, as you say, it's returning a little bit to where we started, which was, do you have a belief in things rather than the safe and weak pose of cynicism?

[Tom Hanks]

Well, I take a look at, like, the things that are Going around in the world. I had this great. In exchange once I was sitting next to the Queen of England as one does. As one. As one finds oneself, you know, in certain motion pictures that make no sense. And I was sitting next to a lady and she had a tiara and she was. She was a big one. And I was asking her about, you know, she was working with worldwide democratic foundation that was currently in Egypt at the time of the Arab Spring. And I said, wow, well, you are working with people who have had no real choice in who their elected leaders were for about 5,000 years. And she says, that's not the point. She said to me in her English accent, she said, what they don't know how to do is change leaders. They don't know how to remove. They've never had experience removing their leaders from office through any process other than death. And here we are in the United States of America in the world, and we're seeing this yet again, this kind of like rise of that brand of leadership in countries that are not really, I think, basing their credo on let's form a more perfect unit. Right.

[Ari Melber]

No, and that's. And that's a threat. When people want to switch systems on us. I want to do a lightning.

[Tom Hanks]

Did that. Did that actually answer a question that you asked or does that be pontificate?

[Ari Melber]

No, I think. I think it did. And I want to.

[Tom Hanks]

But that's the exchange that I can get by asking questions like, how did you do what you do and end up doing this?

[Ari Melber]

Right.

[Tom Hanks]

Garner is a. Garner is a good conversation.

[Ari Melber]

These will definitely have answers. You can go in a word or a sentence.

[Tom Hanks]

If I do enough, am I going to win a set of American Tourist or Luggage? Ari Melber, the Beat Coffee Cup. If any of those exist, you get

[Ari Melber]

to take the set home.

[Tom Hanks]

Oh, that's great.

[Ari Melber]

Okay. In a word or a sense. You can always pass if you need to, but in a word or a sense.

[Tom Hanks]

Okay.

[Ari Melber]

Acting or directing?

[Tom Hanks]

Oh, acting.

[Ari Melber]

The hardest part of acting is the

[Tom Hanks]

battle of self consciousness. Knowing what you look like and what you sound like.

[Ari Melber]

The hardest part of writing fiction is

[Tom Hanks]

the bleeding for three hours at a time at your keyboard.

[Ari Melber]

The performance you'd mostly like a do over is.

[Tom Hanks]

Oh, Not a one.

[Ari Melber]

Okay.

[Tom Hanks]

I did the. You cocky bastard.

[Ari Melber]

I did the least acting in.

[Tom Hanks]

Oh, that doesn't exist. They're all. All of them are. Are gut wrenching changes.

[Ari Melber]

Most underappreciated film you've been in

[Tom Hanks]

that would. That's the. I will. I'm gonna have to say A movie called Cloud Atlas.

[Ari Melber]

The line people repeat back to you most.

[Tom Hanks]

They scream, Wilson. At me. They do scream, run, Forest, run. They. Oh, let's just go through it. They scream, brace for impact. They say, it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, isn't it, Tom? They scream, there's no crying in bed. Baseball. What else do they scream? Hooch. They earn this. They say that, Wilson. They say that. Hey, Tom. Hey, Tommy. We have a problem. They say that a lot.

[Ari Melber]

The person who should play Tom Hanks in a biopic

[Tom Hanks]

because of deepfake technology and AI, I believe I can play myself.

[Ari Melber]

Would it be you if it was a deep fake?

[Tom Hanks]

I don't know. But even if I'm dead and my intellectual property rights will be in place and I'll still get paid in a

[Ari Melber]

word or a sentence. Josh Baskin from Big

[Tom Hanks]

oh, the transition from child to man.

[Ari Melber]

Woody,

[Tom Hanks]

the most unblemished character of the book, of any that I've ever played. His passion is right there on his skin. Forrest Gump, oh, my. The absolute embodiment of nothing more important than common sense.

[Ari Melber]

And these last ones are part of our summit series because there are people who might like to learn from your path.

[Tom Hanks]

Okay.

[Ari Melber]

When they start saying you're great, that's when you've got to forget everything.

[Tom Hanks]

That's when you have to understand I am but an ignorant shell and I have nothing but stuff to learn yet.

[Ari Melber]

Best advice you've gotten.

[Tom Hanks]

Show up on time, know the text, and have an idea.

[Ari Melber]

Failure to you means growth.

[Tom Hanks]

You don't learn anything by succeeding. You only learn from getting your butt kicked.

[Ari Melber]

Success to you means fleeting.

[Tom Hanks]

All glory is fleeting.

[Ari Melber]

And reaching the summit means you have

[Tom Hanks]

to climb back down and make that route safely.

[Ari Melber]

Tom Hanks, thank you so much. The debut novel is the making of another motion picture masterpiece. It's excellent. It's out now.

[Tom Hanks]

Thank you, Ari.

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