Congress Presses DOJ on Epstein Files

Summary

The Beat with Ari Melber — March 18, 2026

Episode Theme:
Congress Presses DOJ on Epstein Files

Ari Melber breaks down the latest political developments as Congress intensifies pressure on the DOJ regarding the handling and continued secrecy of Jeffrey Epstein case files. The episode features congressional reactions, expert analysis, and exclusive interviews, centering on Attorney General Pam Bondi and Deputy AG Todd Blanche's roles in the controversy. Additional news covers the Iran conflict and its political/economic fallout, plus insights into shifting political dynamics.

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Main Topics & Discussion Points

DOJ Under Fire: Epstein Files and Congressional Subpoena

• Congressional Meeting with Bondi & Blanche

  • Lawmakers, both Democrats and Republicans, meet with AG Pam Bondi and Deputy AG Todd Blanche to demand answers on hidden or overly redacted Epstein files. The meeting is confidential and seen as insufficient by leading Democrats.
  • Key Quote:
    • "This is not a substitute for [a] full subpoena conversation and the deposition under oath." — Congressman Robert Garcia [01:18]

• Controversies Surrounding Pam Bondi

  • “Bindergate”: Bondi’s misleading claim of releasing full Epstein files leads to public and MAGA backlash.
  • Bondi’s previous claim that there was no client list or further avenue of investigation is contradicted by international prosecutions.
  • Subpoena scheduled for April 14th; Bondi accused of dodging accountability.

• Role of Deputy AG Blanche

  • Blanche led the public face of the initial Epstein files release, raising concerns he’s covering up by defending redactions, particularly of a DEA money laundering/prostitution probe from 2015.
  • "I'm not trying to defend Epstein. ... We're going after every single perpetrator anywhere. ... The narrative that we're ignoring Epstein victims, that is false." — Todd Blanche [05:05]

• Congressional Law and DOJ Compliance

  • A law passed requiring unredacted releases—Blanche and Bondi accused of violating the spirit and letter.

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Transparency, Redactions, and Legal Tensions

• On Redactions: Are They Justified?

  • Extensive blackouts in documents suggested as unnecessary under new law.
  • "That just looks like a kind of blanket. You can't know anything about this investigation. And that seems hard to justify." — Emily Bazelon [10:02]

• Accountability and Shifting Explanations

  • AG and Deputy AG claim comprehensive effort, yet evidence and foreign prosecutions suggest otherwise.
  • Blanche’s public interviews reveal a narrative of "doing everything possible" while refusing to acknowledge past DOJ missteps.

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Congressional Briefings: Lawmakers Speak Out

• Reactions to the Closed-Door Session

  • Lawmakers—including Rep. Garcia and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)—criticize the session as a sham meant to dodge real accountability.
  • "We want her [Bondi] under oath because we do not trust her. Because she's a liar." — AOC [37:16]
  • Lawmakers cite evidence from over 1,200 victims and allege obstruction by DOJ officials and President Trump.
    • "The course of justice is being obstructed by the President and by his Attorney General." — Democratic Lawmaker [35:25]

• Call for Real Testimony

  • Bipartisan demand remains: Bondi must respond to a subpoena and testify under oath.

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The Broader Context: War, Politics, and the Economy

Iran War and Congressional Oversight

• Trump administration officials (CIA Dir., Intel Chief) pressed under oath about the motives, intelligence, and endgame of the Iran war—top officials dodge direct questions.
• "A lot of not aware. Remember, you're the intelligence chief so you want to be more aware than most." — Ari Melber [23:59]
• Marine deployments, risk of “mission creep,” and impacts on oil prices and inflation discussed with expert Brian Katulis.
  • "We're on the precipice of a quagmire..." — Brian Katulis [27:25]

Political Fallout and Midterm Warnings

• Reports of MAGA base erosion and Republican fear of midterm losses, citing Epstein scandal, Iran war, and inflation.
  • "MAGA has shrunk. ... The people that have been subtracted are all the winning parts — younger voters ... Especially black men, Hispanics. ... Some of it had to deal with Epstein, some of the war." — Republican Pollster [34:09]
• Trump's economic policies (tariffs, war-driven inflation) contribute to consumer frustration.
  • "Half or more of these high prices are Trump's tariffs." — Ari Melber [32:42]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• Blanche on Accountability:

  • "Two [guards] were prosecuted and ultimately there was a non prosecution agreement ... there was accountability." — Todd Blanche [06:47]
  • Ari Melber: “That’s not accountability. You drop the charges, you’re not finishing that case.” [06:55]

• International Perspective:

  • "How Epstein spent money to try to clean up ... or hide his sordid past. ... Networks of fake Wikipedia editing accounts, sham websites, fictitious personas trying to fool search algorithms." — Ari Melber [19:10]
  • "Amazing to see the very deluxe version of trying to clean up your online Persona." — Emily Bazelon [20:02]

• Congressional Frustration:

  • "She was spying on members of Congress ... not putting documents relating to Donald Trump on the website, not releasing them, and only doing it when the public noticed and said something about it." — AOC [37:16]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:45] — Ari Melber opens with latest pressure on DOJ over Epstein files.
• [01:18] — Garcia: Subpoena and deposition are essential.
• [05:05] — Blanche defends DOJ, denies "narrative" of victim neglect.
• [06:21] — Interview presses Blanche on Epstein death investigations.
• [10:02] — Bazelon critiques DOJ’s redactions.
• [14:21] — Bazelon: Bipartisan push for Bondi testimony is “awkward” for Trump’s AG.
• [16:40] — Blanche offers defense for lack of U.S. prosecutions vs. UK actions re: Prince Andrew.
• [34:52] — Lawmakers (Garcia, AOC) speak after confidential Bondi meeting.
• [40:37] — Blanche: "Trump wasn't involved" — but referencing evidence long kept secret.

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Tone & Speaker Highlights

• Ari Melber: Analytical, skeptical, pushing for truth/clarity.
• Emily Bazelon: Legal expertise, critical of “nothing to see here” narrative.
• Rep. Garcia / AOC: Frustrated, insistent on transparency, suspicious of DOJ.
• Todd Blanche: Defensive, asserts comprehensive DOJ effort, minimizes past errors.
• Republican Pollster: Sober, warning of declining GOP prospects.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• Congress is closing in on the DOJ for transparency, demanding AG Bondi testify under oath about the Epstein case, unwilling to accept closed-door briefings as substitutes.
• Bipartisan frustration is growing over redactions and the perception of a cover-up, especially as international authorities secure arrests and the U.S. insists on inaction.
• The controversy is part of a wider political context—including the Iran war and economic anxiety—that is contributing to shifting political dynamics and midterm challenges, particularly for Republicans.
• The narrative of accountability remains unsettled: DOJ officials claim comprehensive effort, but critics and new documents suggest more to be revealed as oversight intensifies.

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This summary captures the episode's key events, debates, and tones. For listeners short on time, the above gives a detailed, moment-by-moment sense of what’s at stake in the battle over Epstein disclosures and its broader political ramifications.

Transcript

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[Ari Melber]

Welcome to the Beat. We begin tonight with Donald Trump's DOJ facing pressure in person for hiding even more Epstein documents. By in person, I mean what we're watching play out right now. Top House Democrats and lawmakers are meeting with embattled Attorney General Pam Bondi and Deputy AG Blanche over the hiding of files and alleged abusive redactions. The meeting is confidential. It's happening at this hour. If we get any news, we'll bring it to you. If Congressman Garcia says the meeting itself will not substitute for a further grilling under oath,

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

there's been some reporting that somehow they're not interested in doing the full subpoena conversation and the deposition under oath, this is not a substitute for that. And so that is the very first thing that I'm going to remind the attorney general of.

[Ari Melber]

That's new from Garcia as they talk about that meeting. Bondi has faced MAGA blowback already and even calls for impeachment. She's had several Epstein debacles. There was the binder incident, Bindergate, where basically she oversaw a lying campaign that claimed to release Epstein files and documents in those binders. But it was a lie and there was backlash over that. Bondi famously claimed she had a client list on her desk at the beginning of last year. Trump supporters did not take well to all that. There was a revolt over several of those misleading spectacles. There were her other false claims about basically the fact that other men linked to Epstein and the material they had even before the files came out. They were all cleared of wrongdoing. She said no further case is possible. Well, that of course has been shredded by other countries pursuing cases against people linked to Epstein. We cannot tell you legally that all those cases are going to result one way or the Other but her initial claim that there was literally nothing else to investigate, nothing to see here. Well those kind of self destructed. The news now is that Congress is officially subpoenaing Bondi over Epstein, which shows bipartisan pressure. Remember Congress is controlled by Republicans. You need some of them to get any subpoena out there. She's of course tangled with Congress before. Now she has a high stakes date, April 14th for this testimony. And as her actions are drawing fire, the administration also tried to put a different face forward. So while she is still ag, she hasn't been impeached or released yet. Her deputy Todd Blanch, a Trump loyalist, led the first files release, signed those letters to Congress when they started doing the piecemeal release. Also he did the press on the Epstein files rollout while she stepped back. Now Deputy Attorney General sometimes have various portfolio dut but everyone noticed that because this was a huge deal and they'd sidelined her. Lawmakers now concerned that he's pushing a cover up new heat on hiding the full unredacted Epstein documents about a DEA money laundering probe from 2015. And at the risk of giving everyone a little deja vu, this is that document. You've seen these kind of redactions before. I will say in fairness to DOJ that they did release a lot of unredacted and real material in that 3 million file release. But this right here is part of 69 pages from this DAA probe that was heavily redacted. The investigation was on illicit funding or distribution of so called club drugs and an alleged prostitution ring. Bloomberg has reported on this and they were reviewing both Epstein himself, but also over 10 other people back in 2015. So folks are asking in Congress with all this time passed and Epstein being dead, why is this so super redacted? Remember these kind of redactions when you deal with CIA or certain issues, they are unfortunately common. But Congress passed a law, a veto proof law we all watched that said that kind of redaction itself is not allowed. The stuff that's normally redacted, they said should be unredacted. If there are names, which there's no name this long of names of victims, those kind of things under the law can still be redacted, but not pages and pages. Meanwhile, Blanche is the rare official who actually felt the need to clarify. In case you were confused, he says he's not defending Epstein, he's just explaining the process.

[Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche]

I am not trying to defend Epstein. I'm not and I do defend the work that this department's doing today, right now, which is going after every single perpetrator anywhere. And if there's a narrative that exists that we're ignoring Epstein victims, that is false,

[Ari Melber]

pushing, back, defending, saying that's a narrative. But of course it's the Epstein victims who've been saying that. And you can't reduce their testimony, much of it nonpartisan. They're not here, most of them with some apparent acts to grind as a quote, narrative. And then there are the ways that this administration having released the files, has stoked more questions. We have reported on the questions around Epstein's in custody death. Our special report and timeline used the newly released files which as I mentioned, it's good we finally got them from the government if you're interested in the facts and transparency. But we also learned through those files about the DOJ's past misstatements on this very issue. The questions meanwhile are only rising in Washington. If you happen to catch this report, you may say, okay, so people are asking questions. The media is asking questions. This is an MSNow original investigative report. But it turns out now we're seeing the overlapping issue and questions also posed in D.C. blanche was asked about it

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

and are you guys completely confident that it was indeed suicide?

[Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche]

Yes, we're confident.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

There's also new questions about an orange colored figure going up the stairs towards Epstein's cell around 10:39pm the night he died. Do you know who that person was?

[Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche]

I don't think we know.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Wouldn't that fall within the window when Epstein could have died?

[Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche]

I think that falls within the window of when he could have died.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Why has none of the guards been held legally accountable?

[Ari Melber]

Well, they were.

[Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche]

Two of them were prosecuted and ultimately there was a non prosecution agreement to may not be the accountability that you want or that others want, but there was accountability.

[Ari Melber]

Now there are some answers. He's on a podcast there with an individual who's affiliated with the Trump administration. Questions are useful. You can take him and what he's saying and the answer. One of the questions there that she posed cites the kind of reporting that we and CBS and some other journalists have done which found that on video the FBI saw what appeared to be an inmate or a person in Orange that night. And yet the DOJ described it differently and Blant says, yep, that could have been within the window. So he's sort of acknowledging that open question. He also said, well, there was accountability for those guards. That's not the case. As we showed in the death timeline. You see prison guards indicted there in the middle. Next to the Epstein photo, but to the right, as we showed you, the charges were dropped. Now, we don't know what would have happened if they'd continued the case. It was unusual to indict and drop the charges. Here we have the deputy Attorney general seemingly wanting to defend everything the government, the DoJ has done, even though that happened in the past. But that's certainly not accountability. You drop the charges, you're not finishing that case. The government has had some problems with accountability and transparency on this for years. And I want to be clear, what you heard there from Todd Blanche was his claims that basically they never did anything wrong, not while he's in charge and not previously. And that's just false because we showed you in our reporting and many different accounts about the problems here. And you've probably heard the victims talk about it. And that also includes Merrick Garland's doj. The misleading report about that same video was published by the inspector general during the Garland Justice Department. And so you're reminded that they don't even bother to blame the past. They're so afraid, apparently, of this story. They say everything was fine. And that's not on the level today. It's not Merrick Garland. It's not the history today. It is the Trump administration in charge, Bondi and Blanche, and they're getting apparently a failing grade from many members of Congress who worked on a bipartisan basis to pass this law. And they are demanding full compliance with the law. And they're demanding more than the occasional friendly podcast interview. Bondi will be going under oath. With all of this news in tonight and the, the meeting I mentioned, I want to bring in Emily Baslow, New York Times Magazine legal writer there, who's looked at this story without fear or favor, as we say. Welcome back.

[Emily Bazelon]

Thanks so much, Ari.

[Ari Melber]

I'll give you a two part question up top. This is the easy part. You know, is this good enough or does Congress have a point that there might be a more accurate way to redact, to protect whoever, including victims, but not do this? And second, what do you think of my observation about Blanche, that there's such tension and, and secrecy here? I'm going to grant him the competence that he knows. The inspector general report came out under the Biden Garland Justice Department, written by Michael Horowitz, et cetera. He's a lawyer. I'm going to grant him. He knows that. And yet he doesn't even say, hey, they might have made some mistakes. He keeps saying everything's fine and it's not fine.

[Emily Bazelon]

Yeah, well, to start with your easy question, no, that is not what a redaction would look like. Given what we know about what Congress decreed in this act, that it passed, that just looks like a kind of blanket. You can't know anything about this investigation. And that seems hard to justify. I think you're completely right about Blanche. He is trying to say everything's fine, nothing to see here, but also we prosecute everyone, and we've been yelling and screaming and hoping people will come and give us information. That was his response to the British potential prosecution of Prince Andrew. As if we don't have the same information they have and as if there aren't all kinds of questions swirling around. And this still kind of essential mystery, given how giant this conspiracy was and how many people were victimized by it, how can it possibly be that there's nobody else to prosecute? Right. I still don't feel like I understand the answer to that question. And Blanche has to both say or try to say, we're doing everything, you know, we're tough. And also. But there's nothing to indict here.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And the Bondi memo which said, we're not going any further because there's nothing else to see. There's no client list, there's no evidence of blackmail, she said, and there's no one else to research. But other countries have already found there are people worth researching. There have been arrests in the UK Exactly.

[Emily Bazelon]

And that is just hard to square. And I think, you know, the reason some of the senators are focusing on this particular DEA document is that it would seem. Seem to have the kinds of facts in it that you could then wonder, well, why weren't the people named in this as potential co conspirators? Why weren't they indicted? And there could be perfectly good reasons for that. And normally, outside of this particular law Congress passed, DOJ would not release information about people who they decided not to prosecute. Right. Because we let people go on with their lives and we trust the government usually to decide whether it's worth indicting someone or not. But this case seems so different given its scope, given the sweetheart deal that Epstein received himself. And because of all of that, it's just a different set of circumstances. And I think it's just very hard for Todd Blanche and Pam Bondi to put to rest all the doubts that they, in fact, stirred up when Bondi started talking about this client list.

[Ari Melber]

Well, Bondi clearly tried to play it both ways, and this was something way bigger than her ability to control. She is not Exactly. Forthcoming or professional, when she does give testimony, it's enough to make you miss the days of Bill Barr, for those who want a legal nerdy nostalgia reference. And yet the DOJ is rattled by this. I know there's a lot of folks watching the news and watching our world these days and saying, well, does any of this even work? Why do you guys even get involved with it? But it is actually also the other side of it's true. There are issues, including this one, where on a bipartisan basis, a bunch of new material has been forced out against the usual precedent to the detriment of these powerful individuals, most of them powerful men. Maxwell happens to be a woman. She's incarcerated, but that's actually made. Made progress of a kind against the powerful. And then when the Republicans, some of them, have decided to push the DOJ on this, suddenly you have subpoena power. And so you have the DOJ here today concerned that they're making her testify, and they say the subpoena is completely unnecessary. The AG has always made herself available to speak with Congress. We look forward to continuing to provide policymakers with the facts. I'm curious what you think of that protestation, Emily, because this is what it looks like when Congress decides, no, we're not going to let you waste three more weeks in negotiation. We're not going to worry about whether you feel pressed that we're treating you like some common witness. We're going to subpoena you. We're going to get you down here. Let's get it going. What do you. What do you think of that and the DOJ's response since you cover DOJ?

[Emily Bazelon]

You know, I think that for Bondi, it is extremely awkward. That is House Republicans who are leading the charge for this subpoena and this testimony. And so, you know, normally her posture in Congress is to be super combative with Democrats. Right. I think that's why you were longing for Bill Barr, who was Attorney General in Trump's first administration. Bondi just, like, goes after who's ever asking her tough questions, but that is harder to do when the criticism and the tough questions are from Republicans and there is real kind of bipartisan agreement with Congress. And so I think what you're seeing here is this idea from doj. Well, we'll come anytime we're cooperating, because being in a conflict with House Republicans is not something that really fits with Pam Bondi's brand.

[Ari Melber]

Hmm. Yeah, that's a fair point. The legal political issues there. I want to ask you about some of the other aspects of this, we have our shortest break, so 90 seconds and then I'm going to continue with Emily. Stay with us.

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[Ari Melber]

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[Ari Melber]

We're back with Emily Bazelon. Here's more of Todd Blanche who's kind of taken over a lot of Epstein for Pam Bondi at the DOJ because he has taken some new questions. Take a look.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

How is it that the UK can do more on Prince Andrew than we can for any single one of these wealthy elite billionaires and people in government even and not have one prosecution, not hold one person account.

[Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche]

You need provable evidence. And so what I can do as a deputy attorney general is, is. Is invite anybody with evidence to come to the FBI and tell us which is what been screaming from the rooftops for a year.

[Ari Melber]

Emily, that is a MAGA type podcast, I think. Fair question. You might just. People might disagree with the host for this or that, but she's got a powerful person in and she's. That's a fair question. It's one that I've heard a lot of people ask. I'm curious your view of the question and then whether you found the answer valid and sufficient.

[Emily Bazelon]

Yeah, I mean I think Katie Miller, she's asking certainly a question that is on my mind. We were just talking about this and you know, again the Tension here where you have folks in the MAGA universe, like you're saying, being the ones who are trying to hold Blanche and Bondi into account, like, that's a different kind of pressure than when it comes from people they view as political opponents. And it shows how much the Epstein story is still really resonating in MAGA world. And then I think, think the puzzling part of Blanche's answer is like, well, is there really no evidence in all of these files that you've released that could lead to somebody's prosecution? Especially because that does seem to be happening in other countries, namely in the uk that's like this tension here. And good for Katie Miller for bringing that to the fore and getting Blanche to actually have to grapple with it.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, the files have all kinds of details and so it takes time to go through them. I wanted to kind of put on the news tonight one of the things we touched on briefly, but the Times has picked up more on this. How Epstein spent money to try to clean up, distort or hide his sordid past. This went on for years. And we have details on this in sort of the Google gaming of it. The Times writes that quest by Epstein to overhaul his online rep team members created networks of fake Wikipedia editing accounts, sham websites, fictitious Personas trying to fool search algorithms. And Emily, I think this is so important because it speaks to how we know what we know. And this is not a defense of anyone who didn't actually do their vetting and homework. People in serious positions who should know better. And yet not everyone running around the world is running a forensic deep accounting on every meeting they go to. And so it is relevant, is it not, that he had so much money that he was indeed spending years trying to game the system so that he could basically have the first page of search results have anything but the actual biggest problem he had, which was he'd become a convicted sex offender. And this is sort of. We don't usually see behind the scenes on this. And I've read some of these emails when I've gone through the files, and he's going back and forth with the search consultant and how they push the material and then they're trying to get these sham web articles that normally you wouldn't care because who's ever going to see them? But they are just there for that purpose. Not that anyone would read the other article, but just to push down the results and you deal in information. I'm curious what you thought of this piece of it.

[Emily Bazelon]

Well, it was kind of Amazing to see the very deluxe version of trying to clean up your online Persona. You know, I've written about victims of sexual exploitation online who've tried hard to do this. And it's, you have to put a lot of energy into it because, yeah, you can have fake articles up there, but somebody has to post them and then other people have to link to them. And so if you really are trying to do this, when you have a serious criminal conviction that you're trying to bury, you have to call in a lot of resources and you can see in this back and forth that it's possible to succeed. And I think Epstein had that success, but you really have to put a lot of money behind it. It is not an easy, quick thing to accomplish.

[Ari Melber]

Right. And then it shows how again, because he was playing this con man shell game. Yeah. He also had the founder of Google in his circle. Right. That person should know better. But random people and young people, and he preyed on all sorts of people may not have. And it speaks to a dark part of this, of the world we live in. And folks think, oh, well, Google, I mean, I'm getting the results. And it's like, well, some of these billionaires and folks are gaming that as well. Emily, I wanted to get that extra detail in there. Thanks for joining us. Coming up, we will look at this story. Republican pollsters warning about the midterms.

[Republican Pollster]

The fact is, MAGA has shrunk. Some of it, had to deal with Epstein, some of the war.

[Ari Melber]

They don't like the war, the midterms, the Epstein, the Iran backlash. We have more. Next.

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[Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Top

[Ari Melber]

Trump officials were pressed under oath about the Iran war. That's really the first time this has happened, including CIA Director Radcliffe, intel chief Gabbard. And it was her lieutenant who resigned in protest to this war yesterday, objecting that Iran never really posed an imminent threat. Senators pressing Gabbard about that, where she often dodged

[Intelligence Official (Possibly Avril Haines)]

the president continues to say as well that, you know, he had no idea was shocked that the Iranians had moved to take over the Strait of Hormuz.

[Blueair Advertiser]

I'm not aware of those remarks.

[Intelligence Official (Possibly Avril Haines)]

What about the comments the president made that sought that he was surprised? Again, reports that Iran struck the adjacent Gulf states?

[Blueair Advertiser]

Again, I'm not aware of those remarks.

[Intelligence Official (Possibly Avril Haines)]

Did you provide any intelligence that would say that it would be that it was not likely that the Iranians would try to move on the Strait?

[Blueair Advertiser]

I'm not aware of those remarks.

[Ari Melber]

A lot of not aware. Remember, you're the intelligence chief so you want to be more aware than most. She did acknowledge that the current Iranian regime is still intact, if degraded. She wouldn't say whether she thought Iran posed an imminent threat, saying the assessment was up to Trump. Now, it's difficult in most wars, regardless of Trump. You don't see top officials undercutting the sitting president. But it's not up to Trump to make intelligence assessments. That's literally her job. Democrats said this was too political, even for the Trump era's lower bar. Today we can tell you the state of Hormuz is closed. Still, that's about 20% of the world's oil supply in the chokehold. And diesel gas has hit $5 per gallon, the highest in four years. We are three weeks in. The president has not outlined an end game. The Times reports Trump is considering expanding the mission in Iran. You may recall this is called mission creep and it happens a lot. The Times reports they're looking at destroying near bomb grade nuclear material that's largely stored deep under a mountain. Whatever the risk, at a certain point you're talking about things that go beyond the air campaign, ground forces provided presumably by the United States. It would be one of the riskiest operations in modern history, according to the Times. We're joined now by Brian Katulis. He's worked at the National Security Security Council and State Department and the Pentagon. He's now with the Middle East Institute. Welcome back. Your thoughts on the above.

[Brian Katulis]

Well, we're in a form of March Madness that is actually more dangerous for ordinary Americans on the security front and on the economic front. And it need not have been this way. We're coming to the end of the third week of a war that President Trump said would only last four to six weeks. And Americans are already feeling it in their pocketbook. But I think the most dangerous aspect of what you just reported was what you said about the nuclear material, highly enriched uranium. If you recall, at the end of the 12 Day War last year, President Trump said that all of that was obliterated. And so much so, he fired another intelligence chief, the Defense intelligence chief, for actually offering a contrary assessment. But lo and behold, later, like a game of Three card Monty, he shifts the deck and he says, well, this is why we have to go to war. So the operational details, as you said last thing I'd say on a, on a ground operation are, are infinitely complicated because Iran is bigger and more populous than Iraq and Afghanistan, if you remember those countries. But he's announced that he sent Marines to the region, if you noticed that late last week.

[Ari Melber]

Right. And you mentioned, oh, we were told four to six weeks and we were told that piecemeal because he didn't really go to Congress or address the country in a traditional way. We have been tracking the supposed timelines. Take a look. Can you give us an idea what unconditional surrender looks like to you? I mean, what do you want from Iran? I said unconditional.

[Congressman or Interviewer]

Unconditional.

[Ari Melber]

I said unconditional. It's where they cry. Uncoun. Up to six weeks total. I don't know. I don't know. I never reject that. Whatever it takes, are you thinking this week it will be over?

[Abercrombie Kids Advertiser]

Are you talking about days?

[Democratic Lawmaker]

I think so.

[Ari Melber]

I don't think it's going to be long. When it's over, this is going to bounce right back so fast. When are you going to know when it's over? When I feel it. Okay. I feel it in my bones, Brian.

[Brian Katulis]

Well, it's not exactly what we heard from Winston Churchill say during World War II. What we lack here is a clarity of the end state and what we see here is actually pretty strong military operational success in degrading some of the missile arsenals and drones credit to our military to do this. What we don't have, which is the responsibility of our political leadership, both the President of the United States and leaders in Congress, is to define the thing that got us in the messes in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is an end state. What are we driving towards? And that's what's alarming about this, is that we're on the precipice of a quagmire at a time when Israel's hitting Iran's oil facilities and energy facilities, Iran is hitting Gulf energy facilities and the Strait of Hormuz, as your report indicated, is closed. This is hitting ordinary Americans pocketbooks directly, directly. And it's going to actually hit also food prices pretty soon because all of this spills over. What happens in the Middle east just simply doesn't stay there. And that's why we need to look before we leap and have clarity of what it is in terms of our end state here.

[Ari Melber]

You mentioned the Marines. That's gotten some attention this week. Can you explain what that is and what the risk factor is?

[Brian Katulis]

Well, there's a couple of reasons. They haven't really explained why they're sending an expeditionary force to the region. It could be a couple of different things. One, just the difficulty of trying to secure the Strait of Hormuz, which is you've seen this past week, President Trump went from we don't need any help to we need help. But then when he got no help, we're going to do it ourselves or maybe we'll just leave and let the straits be controlled by Iran all over the map. So you might need some sort of force on the ground to prevent the mine laying exercises, the mines that Iran are putting in the water there to supplement naval. The other thing is what we talked about is how do you secure the highly enriched uranium, which I think would take quite some time for Iran to get to an actual bomb. But you could have different scenarios with dirty bomb material. And if this has been dispersed, that's a complicated intelligence and military exercise. So the Marines could be just for that or it could be just signaling to others in the region that we're preparing for various contingencies.

[Ari Melber]

You walked us through a lot of these details. You have a lot of background that's helpful. And we learn perhaps for the first time tonight that President Trump is not Winston Churchill, at least not yet, with three years left. We'll see. Brian, thanks for being here.

[Brian Katulis]

Thank You.

[Ari Melber]

By the end of the hour, we will ask the question, if it's okay when Marco Rubio does it, why is it not okay when Bad Bunny does it? I'll explain. It's an interesting fact check. But next, the midterm warning, rattling Republicans. If you want to know tonight, are Republicans nervous about the midterms and why? Stay with us. It would hurt consumers and we'd have to think about, you know, if that continued, what we would have to do about that. But that's like really the last of our concerns right now. Hurting American consumers with the hand wave. One of the last of our concerns right now. As Trump's top economic advisor saying it at the White House, how they view this? American consumers come last in their so called America first policy where they are starting wars in Iran. Now, all of this matters for a lot of reasons, but there's politics at home, AKA democracy. Donald Trump didn't take this to Congress. So if the public's going to weigh in on Iran and other issues, they can do it in the midterms. And consumers are clear about how they're feeling. There's polls that show most Americans say Trump is not handling gas prices well. Only a quarter say that on gas or the cost of living affordability, he's doing all right. New economic data shows the inflation, which is higher prices that Trump ran against under Trump, getting worse. These numbers are much hotter than expected. Guys, this is not good. It's almost the worst of both worlds. I guess stagflation would come close to describing the situation. This is reality and you can't just lie it away or spin it away. The Fed chair who has stood up to Trump at a time where others on Wall street have muted some of their remarks, meaning the facts about how the government is affecting the economy are less expressed these days from even the people who run our Wall street and stock market economy because some of them are quite frankly afraid of Trump. Not the Fed chair. He won the clash over subpoenas. Trump doesn't have the power to harass him with subpoenas. And now Fed Chair Powell is again doing what he's supposed to do. This isn't usually a big controversial job, but under Trump, it is. He's speaking truth to power and he's saying not because he dislikes Trump, but because he's the Fed chair and the expert on this. If you actually just look at the Trump tariffs, they drive part of this bad inflation.

[Blueair Advertiser]

If you look at total inflation, sorry, total core inflation, it's about 3%. And some big chunk of that, between a half and three quarters is actually tariffs. So we're looking for progress on that.

[Ari Melber]

Half or more of these high prices are Trump's tariffs. They, like Trump's subpoenas of the Fed, were also stalled in court. But after months of making mischief, now voters are going to the polls and they know what's going on. You're living it at the gas pump, you're hearing about the tariffs. You got the wider question whether you want to spend blood and treasure on a new war in Iran. One Republican pollster says get ready. Is there any good news for the midterms?

[Republican Pollster]

Well, you said stay positive. What am I positive about it?

[Ari Melber]

Look, I'm just not.

[Brian Katulis]

I'm just guys.

[Republican Pollster]

I mean, I tried to scream and yell for almost a year now about how to fix 2026. There is still roughly an 18% chance historically that Republicans could turn it around.

[Ari Melber]

That is looking at the glass under a quarter full, not half full, it's 18%. Another way to say that statistic is that the 82%, according to that pollster, goes towards a Republican loss. And he talked about the wider climate that you can experience if you put aside all of the things that get said for all of the reasons they get said, said. Some of this is measurable. And you can measure Trump's base, the core MAGA voters who stay with him for anything. As we're so often told, that group is shrinking.

[Republican Pollster]

The fact is MAGA has shrunk. There's a purification through subtraction going on, which I think is important for people to understand. And the people that have been subtracted are what I'm calling, like, you know, all the winning parts.

[Brian Katulis]

Right.

[Republican Pollster]

The younger voters, the younger special, especially black men, Hispanics. Right. Younger women, they have slipped the most in our polling. Some of it had to deal with Epstein, some of the war.

[Ari Melber]

They don't like the war. That's the last word on that from a Republican pollster. Now in Washington, we have brand news, brand new news, I should say. Democratic lawmakers stepping out from their DOJ meeting. We told you about this just happened. Let's start listening live now.

[Democratic Lawmaker]

Pam Bondi can sit there in the hearing room like she just did a minute ago and say, yes, there were. There was evidence from 1200 women, 1200 women that either came forward themselves and testified to the FBI and gave witness statements and said that they had been assaulted by Epstein and his co conspirators or that had gone to attorneys who had brought cases. So 1200 women are assaulted over a 20 year period, and they can't make a case. They can't make a case for bringing anyone to justice. No one other than Jeffrey Epstein is going to face the consequences here. And then on top of it all, Todd Blanche goes and takes the one key witness, the star witness who was there during all of this, takes her out of a maximum security prison and puts her in a country club type environment. So now she wants to cooperate with no one. She's got what she wants. And she can wait this out because she was the one person that could identify Trump and everybody else. And we know there was a pattern of abuse here where we saw young women being taken from Mar A Lago to Epstein's Island. That's a fact. That's evidence. And all of this is being obstructed. The course of justice is being obstructed by the President and by his Attorney General and his personal attorney.

[Ari Melber]

Was anything discussed?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Very little. I mean, the truth is that there were a few questions asked, but other members, of course, asked specifically the Attorney General. I'll have Congresswoman Frost come in. He specifically also asked her if she would show up to her deposition. And she was very clear, if you want to come.

[Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Look, I mean, to me it's very clear that the purpose of this entire fake, fake hearing, this fake deposition, is the Attorney General trying to weasel herself out of sitting in front of us under oath under a bipartisan subpoena that we gave her committee. We asked her multiple times, are you going to come and speak with us under oath? She would not say yes. Filibuster. Filibuster. Filibuster. Would not say yes. And so why do we. And then our Republican colleagues say, is this not enough? Why don't you want to speak to her now? We want her under oath because we do not trust her.

[Emily Bazelon]

Her.

[Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Why don't we trust her? Because she's a liar. Look at how that Judiciary Committee hearing went. She was spying on members of Congress when they were in the doj, looking at the documents unredacted. Look at what she's done as far as not putting documents relating to Donald Trump on the website, not releasing them, and only doing it when the public noticed and said something about it. We want her under oath because we don't trust her.

[Ari Melber]

Her.

[Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

We want her under oath because she has shown that she is involved in a cover up. My Republican colleagues under the last administration would not stand for this. With Merrick Garland being in front of them, not being under oath. They wouldn't allow that to happen for A second. So we see this for what it is. This is not a briefing. A briefing is when we sit down and we're getting information from the person giving the briefing. That didn't happen here. She sat down, they started the clock. Like a hearing. It's a hearing, it's a fake deposition where no one can see what's going on, where there's zero transcription, where it's not on C span or anything and where no one is under oath and they are allowed to freely lie to members of Congress.

[Emily Bazelon]

Is it ongoing now that you guys have left?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

They're still asking their questions. I mean this again, this is the fake hearing. One more question then we're done. Guys, final question.

[Congressman or Interviewer]

Are you supportive of these articles of impeachment that Congress.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Well, I haven't even. I actually haven't seen those or can

[Congressman or Interviewer]

I ask by a show?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

I think look at the, at the end of the day what's important right now for us is that we hold Pam Bondi accountable for the subpoena. She's about to legal. She legally has to show up. That's number one. Everything after that, whether it's contempt, whether it's anything else, all follows. She's got to show up for her deposition. That's all. Thanks everybody too. Not us.

[Ari Melber]

We've been listening to a fairly brief impromptu kind of set of remarks there. Robert Garcia, congressman on the Oversight Committee summing it up with the core point as the lawmakers see it. They want Pam Bonney to testify. They say that's the precedent. They say they have the subpoena and they're concerned based on this closed door Epstein meeting that they just held that she is trying to use that meeting saying hey I showed up and talked to you a little bit as a substitute or a dodge for what they say is her now legally required court backed subpoena testimony. So we are seeing the Epstein issue not going away at all. And if you believe the lawmakers, they say she's trying to dodge. We had a statement we read to you earlier tonight from the Bondi Justice Department saying they don't think the subpoena subpoenas even necessary and claiming she will indeed show up. You can see this is escalating on the Epstein issue. So we will keep an eye on it. It was quick remarks, only took a couple questions. We have a lot more. We'll be right back. A lot of Jeffrey Epstein news coming out of Washington tonight. We had the clash over these type of redactions Democrats and some Republicans say not acceptable from the doj about any a discarded DEA probe of Epstein. Then just moments ago, we saw Democrats come out and address cameras after what they said was an unacceptable briefing by Attorney General Bondi. Meanwhile, it's her deputy Todd Blanch, who has also faced accusations of a cover up, including by members of both parties. When you look at the redactions, I just showed you the problems with the Epstein files questions on the MAGA base as well. And he has been doing interviews discussing all of this.

[Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche]

The lawyers that represented the plaintiffs, if they had any evidence from their clients, from the victims that President Trump was involved, we would know they would have sued President Trump. And guess what? He wasn't involved. And so, yeah, I unequivocally feel that way. And I think I feel that way because of the evidence.

[Ari Melber]

This is evidence that that individual, the deputy Attorney general and Trump himself fought to hide for over a year. And the evidence that he's saying so clearly good for his side or that he thinks answers it is the evidence they've been hiding. So it raises more questions than answers. We'll be right back. What started in Minnesota didn't stay in Minnesota. There is so much going on, of course, and we've covered the war. A lot of Epstein news today. But the fallout from the failures of the Trump administration and dhs, which became really grilled, watched and protested in Minnesota, continues. That fallout is important because it showed that the protests work, that videos and citizen type surveillance can work, and they ultimately ousted the DHS chief for any number of reasons. But that certainly didn't help. So now we're looking at the replacement for that Homeland Security secretary appointee, current Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen. And watch as he was grilled by a fellow Republican, Rand Paul, going back and forth over whether this individual has the temperament, given the history here with the ICE tactics and the alleged violence and the killings and the anger here that this Republican says maybe isn't right for running dhs.

[R]

Explain to the American public why they should trust a man with anger issues to set the proper example for ICE and Border Patrol agents. Explain to the American public how a man who has no regrets about brawling in a Senate committee can set a proper example for over 250,000 men and women who work at the Department of Homeland Security.

[Congressman or Interviewer]

You have spent millions of dollars in my campaigns against me because we just don't get along. However, sir, that doesn't keep me at all from doing my job. I can have difference opinions with everybody in this room, but as Secretary of Homeland, I'll be protecting everybody Including Kentucky, as much as I will my own backyard in Oklahoma.

[Ari Melber]

You can see the reference there to their personal political history, which of course may be relevant, but the reference is to how that individual, now the nominee to run the Homeland Security, the Homeland Security Department, literally threatened violence during a hearing. Now, in fairness, you could say it was back and forth because it was a war of words that got to threats with him and the witness. But as Bernie Sanders said at the time, it was conduct unbecoming of a senator. Now, I want to remind you as a final note, we have our Maverick series online. We've heard from so many interesting people. Cyndi Lauper, David Byrne, Jon Bon Jovi, Annie Lennox. Take a look. I'll tell you everything. I'm an open faced sandwich.

[Emily Bazelon]

It's important to be an artist and to speak truth.

[Ari Melber]

Unless you're true to who you are, it's not going to resonate.

[Republican Pollster]

Music really is you kind of defining who you are.

[Ari Melber]

The Blue Note Jazz Festival and you just came off headlining. You have to remind yourself of the kid on the bedroom floor with the Beatles record.

[Brian Katulis]

This is fire.

[Ari Melber]

This man. Let me explain. Drake was in Anchorman 2. Drake's got some chops.

[Blueair Advertiser]

All of a sudden.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

My queerness is my superpower.

[Ari Melber]

Do you see yourself as a motivator, motivational speaker?

[Brian Katulis]

No, I just speak and I'm motivational

[Ari Melber]

when it comes to making beats. You already know this. It's about the four count. 1, 2, 3, 4. Reinvention is the key to a survival in this business. Favorite lyric I wrote I like. If I could give you the moon, I would give you the moon. I knew I'd made it when.

[Emily Bazelon]

When my accountant said I had a million dollars.

[Ari Melber]

Success made means.

[Intelligence Official (Possibly Avril Haines)]

If your problems are different than they used to be.

[Ari Melber]

If your problems are different than they used to be. We learned some things there from our mavericks. Take a look if you're interested.

[S]

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