Congress Votes to Release Epstein Files

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Beat with Ari Melber

Episode: Congress Votes to Release Epstein Files
Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Ari Melber (MS NOW)
Guests: Alex Wagner, Molly Jong-Fast, Rick Wilson, Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley

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Episode Overview

This episode covers a momentous day in U.S. politics: Congress passing a near-unanimous, bipartisan bill forcing the Trump administration to release the full Jeffrey Epstein files—documents long withheld by the White House. Ari Melber cuts through the day’s dramatic developments, the strategies and failures leading up to the decisive vote, and the ramifications for President Trump’s grip on Congress, transparency, and accountability for Epstein’s abuse survivors. The episode also features emotional reactions from survivors, legal and political analysis from leading journalists, and a member of Congress instrumental in the bill’s passage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historic Congressional Action (01:02–03:00)

• Congress Overrides Trump: Both House and Senate quickly and decisively pass a bill to force the release of the Epstein files, in a stunning defeat for President Trump who had been blocking the release for nearly a year.
  • Melber emphasizes the rare bipartisan unity: “Congress united against President Trump, forcing him and his administration to release the files that they have been withholding.” (01:22)
• Methods and Strategy: Democrats, using a discharge petition (a rarely successful procedure), overcame months of Republican opposition and crafted a winning coalition by picking off GOP defections.

2. Scope of the Files and What’s at Stake (03:00–07:19)

• What Congress Demanded:

  • All Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell files, records on others linked to their crimes, details of immunity deals, and all communications within DOJ and past administrations.
  • Special focus on jail records and Epstein’s death under federal custody.

• Accountability for Potential Cover-up:

  • Congress warns government officials that hiding or destroying documents is a crime.

• Political Turning Point:

  • “You control the White House and both houses of Congress ... but not today. He lost on his own personal and political vulnerability.” — Ari Melber (04:12)

• Transparency vs. Obfuscation:

  • Memorable paraphrase: “No more hiding. Even if it burns or blinds—no more hiding.” (05:15)

3. Bipartisan Speeches and Survivor Advocacy (07:19–08:20)

• Justice and Truth:

  • “Nothing less than justice and the complete truth about who is responsible for their vicious abuse... and covering it up.” (07:39)
  • “It is time to end this White House cover-up now.” (07:54)

• Continued Skepticism:

  • Many express doubts whether the Department of Justice and courts will truly release all documents.

4. The Political Fallout: Trump’s Loss of Control (08:20–17:15)

• Trump’s Defensive Tactics Revealed:

  • Melber details how Speaker Mike Johnson and Trump tried every trick to prevent the vote for 302 days—shutdowns, refusing to convene Congress, and fake file releases.
  • Melber: “For 302 days, Trump and his allies did everything possible to never face this issue.”

• GOP Defection and Political Mortality:

  • This is seen as the first open GOP defiance of Trump’s authority this term.
  • “The Epstein vote is one of the signs Trump’s ability to bend the Republican Party to his will is weakening.” — Quoting Wall Street Journal (15:15)

5. Survivor and Journalist Reflections (17:24–24:26)

• Alex Wagner and Molly Jong-Fast on the Ground (17:24–23:12):
  • Wagner lauds the “bravery” of survivors and the scope of the victory: “This is a major victory for these victims ... against all odds, kept this story alive and held the most powerful people to account.” (17:53)
  • Survivors remembered for the trauma they suffered and their determination.
  • Molly Jong-Fast: Many survivors have been “betrayed by the governments of Democrats and Republicans” and experienced indifference, inaction, and incompetence at every level. (19:16)
  • Both emphasize: This moment is about more than politics; it’s about the lives of girls exploited and failed by systems of power.

6. Legal and Political Uncertainty Ahead (24:26–26:15)

• Will Truth Prevail?
  • Congress included “deliverables”—a list of files and records to be produced.
  • Both journalists caution: Trump could still try to stall or stonewall via the DOJ; Congress may need to read documents into the record if there’s further obstruction.

7. What the Files Reveal: Elites Implicated (26:32–29:05)

• Emerging Revelations:

  • New emails implicate Obama advisors (e.g., Kathy Rummler), Harvard’s Larry Summers, and others—across parties and administrations.
  • Details on Summers’ correspondence and rumored social ties with Epstein.

• Trump’s Behavior Under Fire:

  • Melber and guests dissect Trump’s public misogyny, including his demeaning of women reporters, set against his control of the Epstein files.

8. Shifting Political Landscape: The Breaking of MAGA (29:05–35:36)

• Internal MAGA Rift:

  • Marjorie Taylor Greene publicly breaks with Trump, admitting the crisis has “ripped MAGA apart.” (30:52)
  • Rick Wilson: This is a “permission structure”—if Greene can defect, others may too; invokes the image “they start scattering like cockroaches when the kitchen light comes on.” (31:22)

• Why This Issue Mattered:

  • Wilson traces MAGA roots in conspiracy theory movements (QAnon, Pizzagate), highlighting why the Epstein files are uniquely potent to Trump’s base (33:30).

• Connecting to Policy and Character:

  • Wagner: This isn’t just about character, but about Trump’s priorities: “He’s hiding the truth in Epstein files. He doesn’t care about the economy because it’s rigged for the rich...” (35:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“There can be a thin line between impossible and inevitable.”
— Ari Melber (04:12)

“I am sorry if one of your billionaire donors is going to get embarrassed because he went to Rape Island. That is what they have coming.”
— Ari Melber (07:29)

“No more hiding. Even if it burns or blinds, no more hiding.”
— Ari Melber, paraphrasing Sza (05:15)

“We do need to keep at the center of this, because there are going to be a lot of political machinations about whether we actually see the truth here. But it is resoundingly and unquestionably a victory for those women who... kept this story alive.”
— Alex Wagner (17:53)

“One of them, Annie Farmer, talked about how they have been betrayed by the governments of Democrats and Republicans... they called the FBI and how they. They hung up… and then they didn’t even know about a plea deal. Like, this was just handled so badly.”
— Molly Jong-Fast (19:16)

“I am worried. I am old enough to know how Donald Trump has manipulated and continues to manipulate the Justice Department... He could have just released this today on his own, taken the win and said, ‘I’m a hero for the truth.’ He has not done that.”
— Alex Wagner (21:56)

“If Marjorie Taylor Greene can break from the MAGA coalition… as they see themselves under increasing political pressure… they start scattering like cockroaches when the kitchen light comes on.”
— Rick Wilson (31:22)

“Donald Trump doesn’t care about you. Donald Trump cares about the rich and the powerful and those close to him... it is all part of a behavior set and a set of priorities.”
— Alex Wagner (35:00)

“Jeffrey Epstein can rot in hell, and I’m gonna make sure he has no peace while he is there. And Ghislaine Maxwell has no business being at summer camp playing with puppies.”
— Rep. Ayanna Pressley (41:06)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:02–03:00: Overview of the bill’s passage, Congress uniting to force Trump’s hand
• 03:00–07:19: Explanation of what files will be released; implications for investigators
• 07:19–08:20: Congressional speeches; calls for justice, quotes about transparency
• 08:20–15:15: Melber’s analysis of Trump and GOP efforts to block the vote, their ultimate failure
• 17:24–23:12: Alex Wagner and Molly Jong-Fast reflect on the day with survivor stories
• 24:26–26:15: Will the files actually be released? Congressional strategies if stalling continues
• 26:32–29:05: Details from the newly revealed Epstein emails, high-profile connections
• 29:05–35:36: Roundtable with Rick Wilson, Alex Wagner, and Molly Jong-Fast about MAGA fractures, why this issue is so culturally explosive
• 38:10–43:56: In-depth interview with Rep. Ayanna Pressley on Democratic strategy and survivor-centered advocacy

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Tone and Language

• Ari Melber: Analytical, direct, and occasionally passionate or sardonic; uses both legal and pop culture references (“as Sza might say... no more hiding”).
• Panelists/Guests: Varied; Alex Wagner is empathetic and focused on victims, Rick Wilson is cutting and metaphorical, Molly Jong-Fast mixes reporting with wry commentary, Rep. Pressley is fiery and survivor-focused.

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Episode Takeaways

• Bipartisan action is still possible—even against a powerful president—but only with pressure, courage, and procedural creativity.
• The Epstein files, long the focus of rumors and conspiracy theories, are about to be made public, with potentially explosive ramifications for political, business, and social elites.
• For survivors, this is a major—though not final—victory born of resilience, advocacy, and the determined pursuit of truth.
• Trump’s political dominance is visibly weakening, as the MAGA coalition experiences internal fracture and Republicans defy his will on a signature issue.
• The coming release will test the government’s willingness to confront past crimes and cover-ups across party lines, and set a precedent for accountability.

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For listeners who missed this episode:

This is a landmark moment in both the long Epstein scandal and the Trump presidency—an episode that blends hard political reporting, survivor testimony, and raw political drama. The road ahead is murky, but the vote marks a profound shift in transparency and institutional self-correction.

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Transcript

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[A]

Welcome to the Beat. I'm Ari Melbourne. We're reporting on what is a major and now swift loss for Donald Trump today. The House and Senate agreeing on a bill to force the Trump administration to release the full Epstein files. Here's how that action played out in the House.

[B]

The bill is passed and without objection.

[A]

The motion to reconsider is laid on the table. That's how it went down. Congress united against President Trump, forcing him and his administration to release the files that they have been withholding. The push began earlier this year with Democrats using a rare method to override the Republican speaker. They picked off some Republicans against Trump. Tonight we can see how that strategy worked. Republicans retreated, going from opposing any Epstein vote to virtually all of them joining Democrats to back this within one vote, opposite unanimously that was in the House and now unanimously in the Senate. More on how that vote count will weaken Trump's legislative strategy. I'll get into that in a moment. Now, this is moving fast. Trump losing all control of the process. This news breaking within the last hour, rocking the Trump White House. It looked unthinkable to Trump just a week ago. His Republican defense is cracking in the Senate too, where Republicans buckled and just allowed Senator Schumer to bring the Epstein bill to the floor. And that's through a unanimous agreement. That means not a single Republican senator was left to back the strategy Trump has been using all year through this week, blocking or delaying a vote. And that bought him about 302 days in the House thanks to Mike Johnson trying everything, even avoiding holding House sessions rather than facing this today. Now, here's what the House voted for. Using its power to force the Trump administration to release all the files. Okay, that means files related to Epstein and his travel and Maxwell, his convicted co conspirator. It means that they will try to get the information about others linked to Epstein's crime from people to companies. That's a lot. And there may be many witnesses inside government who know where those records are, meaning that if somebody in the government were to try to hide or destroy them to duck Congress, they, they can be reminded that itself would be a crime. Now, this new bill, which I'm telling you just passed now, both houses of Congress agreeing to it also demands more. They want records on any deals to grant immunity or prosecution avoidance, which is called a non prosecution agreement. They want any secret communications that occurred inside both Trump's DOJ and past administrations. Okay, this is not a party thing on paper. If somebody was giving a sweetheart deal to Epstein or anyone around him in any past administration, in any party, they want to know that too. And then there's a second category that could haunt Trump's first term. Communications related to Epstein's associates, his detention and subsequent death, and documents on Epstein jail, the jailing of Epstein and the death. And that would include the examiner files or autopsy reports and records. And if you say, gosh, I guess people think maybe there was some reason to review that or something suspicious about Epstein's death in the custody of the Trump administration's Bureau of Prisons, overseen by then Attorney General Bill Barr. Well, this is not now some random party chatter or Internet talk or meme jokes. This is the combined authority of both houses of Congress, almost unanimous, both parties saying, we also want to know what happened in that jail cell. And asking questions, as journalists can tell you, doesn't mean you're assuming the answer. It just means, let's get all the documents and why are you hiding them? Trump's party controls the White House and both houses of Congress. You're watching the news, you probably know that. So think about what today means. Nicole Wallace and others were discussing this in our coverage late today. He controls them, but not today. He lost on this issue of his own personal and political vulnerability. There's an old political saying that says there can be a thin line between impossible and inevitable. That's true in life sometimes, if you think about how I would never do that and then you end up doing can be true in politics too. When Trump came out guns a blazing politically, I don't mean that literally. In January, with his reelection and his Elon Musk and his Doge, it would have been hard to imagine not only Republicans rejecting him on this, but rejecting him this unanimously. All but one vote. And that goes to how he has now written out of this story because it was such a big vote, he can't stop it anymore. I'll explain that in a moment. But remember, this story has dominated now and upended Trump's second term. The hiding is over. To paraphrase the singer Sza, no more hiding Even if it burns or blinds no more hiding. The nation has watched Trump go from hiding the Epstein files to being forced to release them. And lately this past two days, he's been pretending he backs them without releasing them. As Sza might say, crashing for real. Trying for real. No more fake fighting. Don't gotta say it cuz I already know Gotta break it if you want to grow no more hiding. I will say on a personal note, Alex Wagner is our guest coming up and we will get her views on whether this was a forced lyrical reference. But it is literally true. There will be no more hiding. Now that the bill has passed, Congress is showing some spine. Republicans following the lead that, remember, began with Democrats, they were the ones that, whatever criticisms you have, and boy, there are all kinds of criticism of the Democratic Party left, right and center, but they're the ones that led this and then recruited the Republican defections to rebuff Trump. After Republicans spent most of this year with Trump trying to avoid what happened, they were cornered into voting for this today. You know what America first means to me. How about meeting with the survivors? How about making sure that America's girls are not being raped? Truth will triumph over deception and obfuscation. Transparency will triumph over dark money.

[C]

The question will remain, will the Department of Justice release all the information? Will a judge in New York release the information?

[A]

I am sorry if one of your billionaire donors is going to get embarrassed because he went to Rape Island. That is what they have coming.

[B]

Nothing less than justice and the complete truth about who is responsible for their vicious abuse, including those responsible for enabling it, ignoring it, bankrolling it, and covering it up.

[A]

It is time to end this White House cover up now. Now we know that Donald Trump has.

[B]

Tried everything to kill our Jeffrey Epstein.

[A]

Investigation and he's failed.

[B]

And let's be crystal clear. Trump has the power to release the files today. He does not even need a vote.

[C]

To be clear, there is no protection for pedophiles.

[D]

The survivors deserve justice.

[E]

The American people deserve the truth.

[A]

That's how it sounded today. A complete and often really united message. Although we can't give 100% credit to everyone pretending to be united on this issue when they had fought Like Speaker Johnson had fought 302 days to prevent this vote. It was only that he was overridden that we get the vote and then we get those speeches. But again, this is the kind of revolt, united and bipartisan in spirit, if not in all reality and history, that you rarely see in Washington really, in the last several years and that we have not seen all year in this tumultuous Trump second term. The Senate is joining the House. Remember, Trump tried to prevent this day from coming. Couple examples. Back in February, they released these files that weren't the Epstein files because and MAGA leaders have been mad about this. Trump was, if you follow the news, just bear with me here. But Trump was lying, except instead of lying about liberals or Democrats or some other issue, he was lying to his base and these MAGA leaders about the thing that he said he would release a year ago when he was running for the campaign. And what you see there are, well, what he would call maybe a hoax or fake news, fake binders that didn't really have the Epstein files in them. As the AP summarized by Summer, he got the attorney general, Pam Bondi, to commit to something on paper which rejects and undercuts the current effort to say they want to open new probes because she admitted there's no client list. She walked back her own theory. She wrote a memo saying there is nothing left to investigate. So if Pam Bondi's Justice Department shows up in a courtroom in a week or two saying, well, actually, we can't release any of this because we have new open probes, you can bet the other lawyers and the judge will say, but you committed to DOJ letterhead. On paper, the opposite. And it was just last week when the Trump White House summoned a congresswoman into a unusual situation room berating a pressure campaign against defections. Longtime Republican. But Trump critic Bill Kristol talked about this on our program this week. He said, credit to the true believers who on the other side of the Trump onslaught held their ground. Now, I'm gonna show you something tonight that is as important to this news as the news, and yet it is archival. Our msnow and beat producers have pulled this together so you can rem remember that while Trump now tonight has said he's not even going to resist this, he's going to sign it and I'll explain why he basically can't veto this in a minute. But he says that now and he's trying to get different headlines. But we have the receipts for you. The president and Republican Speaker Johnson. Their approach for 302 days was to prevent this vote that was then forced on them. So this is a Democrat hoax that never ends. They're forcing a political show vote on the Epstein files. This is a political exercise. It's all been a big hoax. It's perpetrated by the Democrats and some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into the net. He had nothing to do with it. President Trump has clean hands. He's not worried about it. Well, I don't want to talk about it. Because fake news, the discharge petition is not only reckless, it is also a totally moot point. They could do whatever they want. We'll give them everything. Sure. I would let the Senate look at it, let anybody look at it, but don't talk about it too much. That's where Trump landed yesterday, having been dealt this defeat. I quote Mike Johnson tonight, the GOP Speaker. Back to Mike Johnson, quote, reckless. But then why did he vote for it today? The answer is obvious. It's why people get cynical and basically disaffected about politics in general. He can't square the circle. If it was reckless, he shouldn't vote for it. If it wasn't reckless and he supports it today, they should have supported it to begin with. If you cared about the truth, the facts, the DOJ or the victims, well, then you'd have a consistent position. Not all of this, but within that negativity and cynicism, there is also a little sliver of hope in the American experience of democracy. You go to a class and someone tells you about, they got this thing with the discharge petition, yada, yada, okay, who cares? But then you find out people can actually use that even against very powerful people. The speaker and the President are very powerful in our government. That's two branches of government right there. And this system worked today. We will find out in the future how that must continue to be forced and pressed. Journalists, activists, lawyers, people interested in getting the truth out can go through the court process. But today, that petition that started mostly with Democrats and a couple Republicans has now unearthed all of this. And Mike Johnson and Donald Trump are pretending to support the thing the Democrats pushed that they fought for 302 days. Trump says he'll sign this. That's late breaking that. He's now okay with the release while he's also playing games at the DOJ. 60% of Americans are concerned that Trump knew about the abuse. Republicans backed Trump as long as they could. They didn't want this vote. They went hard and failed. Trump is also tasting a political mortality tonight. Axios writes, the first time this term a GOP led congressional chamber so openly defied him. Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal writes, the Epstein vote is one of the signs Trump's ability to bend the Republican Party to his will is weakening. You can say that again. People have different opinions about Donald Trump. That's fine. I think it's a fair observation that there are things you can tell he cares about and a lot of other stuff in governing. This is not like they vetoed him on some tax plan or the price of tea in China, as they say, or the price of coffee when the tariffs go up. This is the big one. They say a hit dog will holler. I said, alex Wagner's here. We'll find out if she prefers that tired cliche to the scissor lyrics. But the bottom line is Donald Trump made it very clear that this day was what he feared most. Maybe only he knows the reasons for that. That's the most responsible way I can say it. And Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, did something that in other times we hear all about how everything's different in any other time period. Refusing to let the Congress meet because Donald Trump would rather buy a couple weeks than face the Epstein files. Transparency was really something to then do that during a shutdown. While we saw people in line for food and people concerned about airport safety, that was bananas. And they did that just to buy time. And they lost and they failed. And here we are tonight, a country watching. The last thing I'll mention. I saved this to the end because honestly, it's a little more technical. But we all know how bill becomes a law and you send it down to the White House and then you find out whether the President signs it. But the President can veto a bill. The vast majority of bills throughout history cannot survive a veto. That's why you have that whole system. I'm sure you remember, you see the signing, you see him veto. What just happened tonight was unthinkable to so many. A week ago, the Senate, controlled by Republicans, could have done all kinds of things. Delayed or passed it by 55 votes. No. They are now joining with a unanimous agreement, a veto proof majority, which means Trump has no power to stop this. We got two special guests here to get into it. 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[C]

The Senate has passed the bill under unanimous.

[A]

That news which just broke in the last several minutes reaching one of the press conferences of survivors and activists. I'm joined now as promised by Alex Wagner, Ms. Now senior political analyst, host of Runaway country on crooked media. She also writes the sub stack. How the hell with Alex Wagner? Fair question. Molly Zhang, fast from the New York Times is also at Ms. Now analyst. First two questions to Alex. The second second will be the one as promised, your rating. But first, you've been covering this. You've been in Washington.

[D]

Molly and I were there this morning.

[A]

And it really did change fast.

[D]

Yeah, I mean it feels like five years ago that we were standing there with Epstein survivors who still thought it was an open question about whether this would get to the Senate. I mean, I think that there was confidence that the House was going to pass this maybe unanimously. Marjorie Taylor Greene spoke and she seemed very confident. But the winds of change have blown quickly on this story. I mean, I think I don't wanna lose sight of the fact that this is a major victory for these victims who have stood, you know, bravely in the public eye. They have faced threats. They have, I mean, to say nothing of the abuse and the trauma that they withstood in their tenderest years. You know, these women took to the podium and each one of them showed a photograph of themselves at the age when the predation or the abuse by Jeffrey Epstein began. And what gutted me, I don't know how you felt about this Molly was just how young they looked, you know, And I think we got. We do need to keep at the center of this, because there are going to be a lot of political machinations about whether we actually see the truth here. But it is resoundingly and unquestionably a victory for those women who have, against all odds, kept this story alive and held the most powerful people in the country to account. Right. I mean, literally, the government was shut down, arguably, so that this discharge petition would never be signed.

[A]

So he didn't convene them. Yeah.

[D]

I mean, like, hats off to them and their tenacity and bravery.

[A]

Let me get. So let me bring Molly on. Since you were there. Tell us about that, then we'll come back to you.

[E]

Okay, I. I agree with what Alex is saying. And it was. It was very moving. And you saw these survivors. Really, you know, I think it was, you know, these people. This abuse has gone on. And one of them, Annie Farmer, talked about how they have been betrayed by, like, the governments of Democrats and Republicans.

[D]

Bill Clinton.

[E]

This has happened. Right. Five administrations have refused, you know, and she talked about calling the FBI and how they. They hung up, and then they called back and said she was gonna be a witness. And then they didn't even know about a plea deal. Like, this was just handled so badly. And in fact, they talked about this idea that there was a lot more abuse than needed to happen. Right. Had they heard during the Clinton administration or the Obama administration? Obviously, Clinton and Obama didn't know about this, but had the FBI taken this more seriously? Had they gone in there and stopped.

[A]

It, or had the corruption at the top, which is the connection to their experience.

[E]

Right.

[A]

And then what Republican Massie says today, I'm going to play is he's concerned that there's still other important people being protected. They're alleged abusers. I just want to. Let's listen to that. I prefer, actually, it goes straight to the president. He can release these files without the Senate acting. Sometimes they take a long time to get things done. The House figured out a way to take four months. I believe he's trying to protect friends and donors. And by the way, these aren't necessarily Republicans. Once you get to a billion dollars, you see, you transcend parties. You just assume you can pay off whatever party is in charge of the White House. Massie's talking about this, and there's evidence this is not just rhetoric. We finally got some of the emails. We expect that the emails would also be in the files. And if they start playing Games, we have 20,000 emails to see what they pull. One of them, of course, shows that a very top Obama lawyer was very close with Epstein. They've described it as professional. Kathy Rummler was literally in dialogue with him when she was considering whether to potentially get the job of Attorney General. The Clinton reference was made other individuals. And then you have the Trump of it all. So the no more hiding point. I want you to respond to that. And then you're a referee. You know, we call it straight. Listen, no more hiding. Sza, Go ahead.

[D]

If you're the person in America that can tie SZA together with Jeffrey Epstein in like, not, not, not. Imp. Is his reputation.

[A]

Is it seeking transparency?

[D]

This is why you are on television.

[A]

Thank you, Alex and I. Too far.

[E]

I salute you.

[D]

It's never too far, Ari. It's never too far. I am worried. I am old enough to know how Donald Trump has manipulated and continues to manipulate the Justice Department. He has thus far pulled every lever of the federal government that he can, from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to the House Republican Congress to the Department of Justice, to prevent the truth from coming out. It is hard for me to believe that he's had a come to Jesus moment on a Sunday night and been like, you know what? Let's go a. Because he could have just released this today on his own, taken the win and said, I'm a hero for the truth. He has not done that.

[A]

No. He's maintaining his options, which includes trying to have the DOJ stonewall.

[D]

But you're now redact or do no harm.

[A]

But you are facing a very united Congress.

[D]

Yes. Although I will say, and again, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that this is a victory for the victims. I am very skeptical of Republicans truly standing up to Donald Trump. I think this is an issue that animates the base. It is a scandal unlike any other in America.

[A]

But I'll go back and forth with you.

[D]

It is part of the rosetone of maga and whether it is MAGA and she's welcome. That's not even.

[E]

It's the beginning.

[A]

It's the story. Well, let me. But let's debate this out. This is a big night. People are interested. They lost today. Yes.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

302 days. They fought. They lost. I hear you on the spectrum, and you're making a very fair point about skepticism. But on that spectrum, absolutely. This is more of a loss and moving towards holding them accountable. It is possible. Possible that people say, oh, I saw the vote. I let it go. But the other point, and I'll let you both respond, is you got a lot of people who are waiting on the deliverables. I showed the photos when they tried to fake it, it didn't work on their people. Even if people say, oh, the MAGA folks, whatever. And I'm just going to put on the screen and Molly can respond. These are the things that the Congress says they're going to get if they don't get them. Epstein docs, Maxwell docs travel records, individuals named in connection with the activities. I'm just going to put this up. This is what is in. This is what Congress voted for tonight. If we have this. Six entities with alleged ties to the trafficking. Okay. Because more can be done not only on transparency. That means learning the facts, but doing what prosecutors are supposed to do, which is act on it. Also immunity deals, the agreements which spared Epstein the first time, the plea bargains, internal doj, multiple administrations, I emphasize. So, Molly, either they get a lot of it. I'm not saying you get 100%. There's a legal process and you got to protect victims. I mean, I'd be the first to acknowledge there's some complexity. But either they get a lot of.

[D]

They were involved in the drafting of this. So the victims are engaged in this process.

[A]

Exactly. And so either they get a lot of this or it consumes another 300 days of Trump's presidency.

[E]

Well, and I think he sort of fenced himself in here. And when we were at this press conference, we heard these. These victims talk about reading the lists on the floor. So remember, these victims have not been all together since this process started. And now they all know each other, they talk to each other, they have a relationship with each other, and they have lists. And so both MTG and Representative Jai Paul have said they will read the lists on the floor and that there's a cutout there because if you ha. You know, if you read something in Congress, you are protected. So I do think, I think Trump may be out of moves here. I mean, it may. I mean, look, he can still obfuscate for a while, but, you know, this may be the sort of checkmate because this, he never thought it would get through this.

[D]

Yeah, I agree with that. I don't think he had any plan. I think the plan, first of all, the plan with Trump generally is no plan.

[E]

Right.

[D]

And he's not a long term planner, he's not a medium term planner. I think he saw the political writing on the wall on Sunday night and was like, screw it, I'll Go for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And I'll do whatever I can on the back end.

[A]

And this is not vacation. On vacation, a no plan. Plan is great.

[D]

Can't stop, won't stop.

[A]

But in governing, his plan was I control the speaker. He knew MAGA and Republicans were mad. He could wet it. I control the speaker. We'll prevent the vote. Then the speaker says, we swear in this new member. We're gonna get the vote. And like a mad king, he says, then don't swear in.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And they didn't for a month.

[D]

Yeah, over a month.

[E]

And the discharge petition, you know the odds of a discharge petition working, right?

[C]

4%.

[A]

Taylor Greene said 4% almost never happened.

[E]

And so the fact that this worked is sort of. We are really on in unprecedented times.

[A]

Yeah. Molly gets the last word on that. Alex Wagner comes back along with Rick Wilson. We turn to the politics of this and why MTG says the Trump era may be ending. We'll be right back.

[B]

The bill is passed and without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid on the table.

[A]

Congress passing the bill to release the Epstein files. The Senate joining late today as we came on the air. And there you have it. What we will see in the Epstein files will be, among other things, his emails. And something we didn't know last week is what 20,000 of them look like. They continue to show the very problems that many people correctly surmise and allege involved cover ups, including political elites. There's correspondence with former Obama official and Harvard president President Larry Summers. He was also, of course, someone who was doing things with Epstein and taking money from him. And today, under this pressure, even though his ties had previously been exposed, the emails, in other words, more detail only coming from this revelation led to his unusual announcement that he's stepping back from public commitments. He says he's ashamed. Summers maintained contact with Epstein from 2013 to 2019. That was, of course, after his initial problems and into the period of his second arrest. Summers and others apparently didn't care about that. These are again, people who are very informed. He's a Harvard professor and they had these exchanges. Speaking of Summers dating Life, Epstein in 2018 said, I'm a pretty good wingman, huh? Summers agreed, you were good. Quote, she did not want to have a drink because she was tired. Trump also came up Epstein saying in 2017, recall, I've told you, I've met some very bad people. None of them not as bad as Trump. Not one decent cell in his body. So, yes, dangerous. Now, Summers is responding by saying that at least he wants to pull back and show some level of accountability. People can debate whether there should be more. Donald Trump, on the other hand, is the person who, amidst all of this, has not had accountability, including for his public misogyny statements against women. People remember the 2016 Access Hollywood revelation, and now he's lashing out with crude insults. This is a moment amidst all of this where he's talking to a woman reporter who was asking, doing her job, asking about the Epstein issue. Go ahead, go ahead. Quiet, quiet. That's where we are tonight. I want to bring in Rick Wilson, who co founded the Lincoln Project. Alex Wagner is here. Alex.

[D]

I mean, this is this it just quiet, quiet. Piggy says the probably one of the most piggish presidents in American history, if not the most piggish president in American history, given the way he has demeaned and debased women and stripped them of fundamental bodily rights and autonomy. It is impossible to square the. The Trump that you see in these really candid moments. He had another one in the White. In the White House in his bilateral press conference or in his pool spray. Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia today, where he's demeaning another female reporter. It is impossible to square the man who does that. And I think naturally and honestly, his attitude towards women is on display there with someone who says he actually wants the truth to get out about Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein demeaned, debased, and abused women. And I'm not saying that what he did and Donald Trump has done are the same or on the same level, but I don't think that there's any particular. I have a very difficult time believing that Donald Trump harbors any desire to get to the bott of Jeffrey Epstein's sins and really wants to give justice to the women who were abused and traumatized for decades by Jeffrey Epstein. You have to look at that person who calls women pigs and has done so repeatedly and think about him as the person who's now in charge of the truth about these women and their abuser getting out.

[A]

Understood, Rick Wilson. There's also been this large clash inside MAGA that Trump has failed to quell. This is his biggest loss today. And so amidst all the important things, including what Alex Wagner just gave us, a speed education on the import and those connections, there's the wider politics where he's losing. And if you can lose on this, you can lose on other things. Lame duck. Here's mtg.

[C]

This has been one of the most destructive things to maga, watching this actually turn into a fight has ripped MAGA apart. The only thing that will speak to the powerful, courageous women behind me is when action is actually taken to release these files. And the American people won't tolerate any other.

[A]

Rick.

[B]

You know, look, if Marjorie Taylor Greene can break from the MAGA coalition, that sets up a permission structure where she's been a stalwart for him from the very beginning, as she's said many times. But as they see themselves under increasing political pressure from Donald Trump's mistakes, on. On the economy, on tariffs, on jobs, they're gonna start saying themselves, you know, if she got away with it, maybe I can too. He can't go after us all. And so they start scattering like cockroaches when the kitchen light comes on. And suddenly Trump doesn't look like the all powerful demigod of MAGA anymore. He looks like the problematic weird uncle at Thanksgiving who drinks too much. And I think the behavior you're seeing insulting these women reporters, et cetera, that is in part just natural Trump character. But I also think he's been triggered. He's under tremendous stress by this story. It will not go away. It's the one story we've ever seen where he can't just command MAGA to believe that the sky is green, not blue. He can't reshape reality for them in the same way he has in the past. I think we really are witnessing a transition in Trump's decline of not only his political power, but the fear that defined it for many people in the MAGA base.

[A]

Yeah. And you're speaking to whether he is effective at what he's doing. And that relates partly to him.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And there have been many hours of discussion about what he's like, and it relates partly to the bottom line, which is they can only lose two votes in the House. He can threaten a primary mtg, she can threaten not to vote for the GOP speaker. Doesn't make her a Democrat. She could just withhold. Now they have a House hanging by one vote. They could lose it before November. Sure. Why is it, in your view, Rick, as a student of all this, that this is the issue that did it? Because there are plenty of people who aren't in this daily politics universe who would say, wouldn't it be that he didn't bring down prices? Wouldn't it be that you got agents in the streets and you got soldiers in the streets in a way that traditional conservatives, and I mean traditional going back to John Adams, don't quarter soldiers in people's homes? I mean, you go back A long ways. That's not how you use soldiers. And yet this right now is the one. Explain.

[B]

Look, what it really goes back to is 2015 and 2016, when Donald Trump caught that wave of Pizzagate, QAnon, all these lurid conspiracy theories. And the MAGA base was more activated by that particular chain of conspiracy theories than almost anything else we've ever studied in polling or anything else. They really believe Trump was going to save the children. And as it turns out, as we've seen this evolve over time, Trump is an intimate of Epstein, in many ways a friend. If he appears in 1800 instances in a tranche of 27,000 documents. They're worried now that Donald Trump has lied to them. And it's really taken 10 years for them to let this percolate through their brains and to process it. But it is now increasingly scaring them. Not only that the idea that Donald Trump was a friend of Epstein's, but that he could be culpable in some of the things that Epstein did. And that is really sending them around the corner. They thought it would be that the Democrats would say, oh, well, Clinton's in the files, Larry Summers in the files, so we can't say anything. But every Democrat I've heard has come out and said, let the ball roll. Whoever's in the files, it all needs to come out. And I think it does. And I think that has really shaken the MAGA confidence in Trump being able to get away from this one.

[A]

And taking that point, Rick, to Alex. He's arguing that for people who had been willing to excuse Trump on other things, this isn't about policy, it's about character.

[D]

Yes. But I would say I do think there's a policy tie in. And I think it's the work of the Democrats to make this all sing on the same thesis. This is about Donald Trump looking out for the rich and the powerful. He's hiding the truth in Epstein files. He doesn't care about the economy because it's rigged for the rich. He's giving tax breaks to the most wealthy in our society on the backs of the poor. This is all of a piece. Donald Trump doesn't care about you. Donald Trump cares about the rich and the powerful and those close to him. And it is up to the rest of the country and elected representatives to connect those dots because it is all part of a behavior set and a set of priorities.

[A]

Yeah, my. Thanks, Alex Wagner. On more than one topic, a hit dog hollers.

[D]

Hit dog's gonna holler.

[A]

Which is it? Rick, is it?

[D]

He's groaning. He's groaning.

[B]

No, no, no, listen, I'm a Southern. It is a hit dog hollers. Also a cut hog hollers. If I may stick with the piggy theme.

[A]

Wow. Well, a need that, Rick.

[D]

Well, Wagner told me we didn't need that.

[A]

Wagner told me that I added a word. And we, we, we care about precision here. It's not hit dog gonna holler. It's hit dog holler. Or as they say in the Bronx. Are you ready?

[D]

I'm ready.

[A]

Go do it. Holla. Sorry. Sorry. Alex.

[D]

Rick, commercial.

[A]

Holla. Sorry. Bye. Thanks to both of you. Tonight's votes show that Trump's grip on MAGA is far weaker. We have a democr fought hard on this when we returned. Why did we build the first American nuclear plant in 30 years? Because we're leading the way to secure American energy dominance.

[B]

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[A]

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[D]

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[C]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

We are demanding today on the discharge petition that all of the files be released. The discharge petition is not only reckless, it is also a totally moot point.

[C]

We call for full release of these files protecting those victims.

[A]

I'm gonna vote to move this forward. I think it could be close to a unanimous vote. Democrats fighting for what Mike Johnson tried to prevent, including our next guest, who you just saw there, Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley, a Democrat from Massachusetts, a member of the pivotal House Oversight Committee that has been so instrumental on this. I have questions, but let's start just big picture. How did your caucus of Democrats change Congress and override the speaker? I mean, that's a whole nother piece of this.

[C]

Well, let me begin with the survivors, because the progress that has been made is a testament to the bravery of these survivors over decades. I need for people to understand that these are grown women now, but they were children. Children who were groomed, who were preyed upon, who were exploited, who were violated and trafficked. And that has changed who they are on a cellular level and changed the trajectory of their lives. These are young girls that had dreams to be dancers and artists and lawyers and members of Congress. And so this is a victory and a testament to their bravery. And the procedural maneuvering of Democrats in the House, beginning with the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform that forced a vote for a subpoena to the Department of Justice. There was no come to Jesus meeting here. And suddenly we had emails made available to us and documents we had to force their hands. So Democrats have been using every lever available to us, calling for congressional hearings which have for survivors to be centered, to be heard on the record as a part of a congressional investigatory process. Because of that pressure that I initiated, we then had a roundtable, a closed door meeting with survivors. And again, because of the actions of ranking member Robert Garcia and subcommittee chair Summer Lee, we were able to force a subpoena to the Department of Justice.

[A]

And was this. Yeah, let me jump in. Was this a fight where you felt in the beginning, we're probably going to win, we got to do these things or this is an uphill battle. We'll see. Because folks are studying this as you are part of a movement here that and you credit many people, but that has changed the calculus. Trump hasn't lost a vote like this all year, as you know.

[C]

Well, I care less about what the Republicans lose and more about what the survivors gain. This is really about them. And the fact of the matter is that they only have had a turnabout because Donald Trump knew he was going to lose that vote. And as a way to try to save some face, he had a turnabout. And then Republicans in that caucus followed suit. Before that, they were much more concerned with losing their jobs than doing a job. In this culture of political retribution and vengeance by Donald Trump, which is why? Adelita Grijala and her 800,000 constituents of Arizona's 7th congressional district have been disenfranchised for the last six weeks. House was shut down. I mean, Ari, look, here you have an administration that has a majority and an alleged mandate and they use that to exact and enact harm on every person who calls this country home. Then you have the privileged and the powerful, the wealthy and the connected, from Jelaine Maxwell to Jeffrey Epstein, who had all the power and privilege in the world. And they could have used that to steward good and instead they used it some pedophile predator Ponzi scheme. Jeffrey Epstein can rot in hell and I'm gonna make sure he has no peace while he is there. And Jelaine Maxwell has no business being at summer camp playing with puppies. They have changed the lives of.

[A]

No, and you're referring to the Trump DOJ's lenience for her, which is striking. The emails that your committee helped unearth include this one I mentioned briefly earlier in the hour. Kathy Rumler is a lawyer who worked in the Obama administration and she was had a business relationship. Here you see, he says you need to talk to boss and she is consulting or emailing with Epstein about potentially taking a promotion or becoming Attorney General under Obama. I need to be prepared to say yes before I talk to him. I'll remind folks, because she may not be a household name, we have a photo of her. This is something we've learned about from the emails where it seems that high profile people in both parties seem to have all these ties to him. We know about more about this because of your committee's release. What should be done about that and does it concern you that Epstein apparently had entree with this high ranking official?

[C]

Again, we need the full release of the Epstein files, which by the way, the House dispatched our discharge petition. Right. The Senate voted by unanimous consent. Who knows when Trump will sign this, but please know that his Department of Justice has the authority to release these files right now.

[A]

No, we've mentioned that. I mentioned that tonight. But specifically the Obama link. Does that concern you? Because again, we've seen some of the problems you mentioned for survivors across multiple years in administrations.

[C]

We need a full release of the file and we will follow those files wherever they take us because everyone should be held accountable. This has been going on for three decades. It has been an institutional betrayal and a cover up. Rest in power Virginia Duffrey, who took her own life in the midst of this battle fighting for accountability and justice for these survivors. And yes, this is about the Epstein survivors. But when I met with them today, they credited the MeToo movement and Tarana Burke. They credited the women of the Democratic Women's Caucus and some from the Republican Women's Caucus who joined with us today. They said that this has many times been a betrayal and incredibly demoralizing. One survivor spoke about they would have these meetings, they would feel as if someone saw their humanity and then nothing would happen and they would feel they returned to a ghost like status. So today is a victory for every survivor who has been silenced, dismissed or harmed. So this is a bold step in the right direction. As a Survivor myself, certainly encourage and.

[A]

I'm only nodding because we're getting up to the end of the hour, but I wanted to save this time to have have with you one on one. I appreciate you joining us. I know you're busy today and we showed how you've been busy in this quest. Congresswoman Presley, thank you.

[C]

Thank you, Ari.

[A]

We'll be right back. Quite the news night and a lot more to come. Keep it locked on Ms. Now because the week weeknight is up next.

[D]

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