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DOJ Vet Who Prosecuted Trump Testifies - The Beat with Ari Melber | Wave AI Podcast Notes

DOJ Vet Who Prosecuted Trump Testifies

Thu Dec 18 2025

FCC chairman Brendan Carr testified to a congressional committee for the first time since ABC suspended Jimmy Kimmel's show. MS NOW's Ari Melber reports and is joined by Dylan Ratigan.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Beat with Ari Melber

Episode Title: DOJ Vet Who Prosecuted Trump Testifies
Date: December 18, 2025
Host: Ari Melber
Notable Guests: Andrew Weissmann, Dylan Ratigan, Brian "B.Dot" Miller

Overview

This episode of The Beat with Ari Melber dives into a series of historic and highly charged events: the secret congressional testimony of Special Counsel Jack Smith, responsible for prosecuting Donald Trump; the ongoing controversies around political retribution and selective prosecutions under the Trump administration; the failed governmental effort to censor media figures like Jimmy Kimmel; and reflections on free speech, business influences, and the evolving pop culture scene as 2025 closes. Ari is joined by legal expert Andrew Weissmann and business journalist Dylan Ratigan, with music journalist Brian "B.Dot" Miller rounding out the show for a pop culture wrap.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Jack Smith’s Secret Testimony on Trump Prosecution

Summary:
Jack Smith, the first federal prosecutor ever to indict a sitting president, provided private testimony to the House Judiciary Committee regarding his investigations into Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election and his handling of classified documents.
Details:
- Smith affirmed that his prosecutions were strictly grounded in evidence and law, not politics.
- He stated he would have pursued these cases “regardless of whether the President was a Republican or a Democrat.”
- Smith’s testimony was behind closed doors at the request of Republican lawmakers, raising concerns about transparency.
- Democrats argued that making the hearing private was an attempt to "hide" the damning findings.
Quote Highlights:
- Ari Melber, explaining the secrecy:
  
  "The folks who want something public usually think it will help them, let the world see. And the folks who want something secret or private usually have the opposite view." (02:25)
- Ari on the significance of Smith's testimony:
  
  "[Smith] said the probe...developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that then President Trump...engaged in criminal schemes to try to overturn that loss..." (01:40)
Timestamp: [00:54] – [08:34]

2. Political Retribution and the Use of Pardons

Summary:
The episode explores Trump's unprecedented use of pardons, particularly for January 6th offenders, and the reported aim to retaliate against investigators like Smith. It also highlights the implications of such selective prosecution on American justice and norms.
Details:
- Discussion of the Vanity Fair interview with Trump’s ex-chief of staff, Susie Wiles, who commented on Trump's penchant for vengeance:
  
  "I don't think Trump wakes up thinking about retribution, but when there's an opportunity, he'll go for it..." (05:27)
- Smith’s ongoing ordeal facing threats and retaliation.
- Referenced failed attempts by the administration to bring retributive cases (e.g., against AG Letitia James).
Quote Highlights:
- Ari Melber on Smith’s courage:
  
  "Jack Smith, a career prosecutor, conducted this investigation based on the facts and based on the law and nothing more." (09:54)
- Andrew Weissmann on political motivations for secrecy:
  
  "If the Republicans say it’s an effort to show he was vindictive...then put it out there publicly… I think they're afraid." (08:42)
Timestamp: [05:27] – [11:51]

3. FCC, Free Speech, and the Kimmel Controversy

Summary:
A segment covers the Trump FCC’s failed attempt to remove Jimmy Kimmel from the airwaves, and the bipartisan resistance it provoked. The issue becomes a lightning rod for debates on free speech and government overreach.
Details:
- Kimmel's ratings increased post-controversy, and he recently renewed his deal.
- FCC Chairman Brandon Carr faced congressional grilling over his attempts to police broadcast content, which both Democrats and some Republicans opposed as "Mafioso tactics."
- Carr controversially claimed the FCC is no longer an independent agency—immediately contradicted by federal law and by changes to the agency’s mission statement post-hearing.
Quote Highlights:
- Ari Melber on Carr's paradoxical infamy:
  
  “He is turning the Federal Communications Commission into the Federal Censorship Commission…You should resign." (20:48)
- Ari Melber summing up the stakes:
  
  "It’s funny as long as it fails. If it starts working, and this feels like leftist Cuba or the Soviet Union...we got bigger problems." (19:46)
- Sen. Ted Cruz (quoted):
  
  "...Mafioso tactics, including, 'We can do this the easy way or the hard way...'" (18:17)
Timestamp: [17:28] – [22:29]

4. Media Power, Business Pressure, and the Trump Era

Summary:
Ari and guest Dylan Ratigan unpack the use of business interests to gain favor with the Trump White House, from media company maneuvers (Amazon's $40M Melania documentary) to the complex relationship between large firms and the administration.
Details:
- Amazon's purchase of the Melania documentary cited as an example of corporations currying favor.
- Ratigan notes that true defense of free press is now falling to big newspapers and their law firms, while many others play it safe.
- The discussion pivots to economic trends, with Ratigan predicting an AI-driven labor cliff and a generational employment crisis—overshadowed by constant “Trump stories.”
Quote Highlights:
- Dylan Ratigan:
  
  “Amazon is inclined to do that...anything to endear them to a president who likes money and compliments…” (28:38)
- On job market trends:
  
  “Job growth in the United States is the slowest it has been since 2003...the movement in AI is way, way, way more than people realize and way faster than people realize...” (30:01)
- Ratigan on the incoming AI jobs cliff:
  
  "I believe 2026 is a cliff year in a way that will bring up massive issues regarding unemployment…we’ll have a revolution among young people." (32:09)
Timestamp: [25:07] – [32:32]

5. Pop Culture Year-in-Review – Music & Representation

Summary:
The episode closes with music journalist Brian "B.Dot" Miller reflecting on hip hop milestones, Outkast's entry into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, and the continued cultural impact of veteran and emerging artists.
Details:
- Outkast’s “gold school” legacy and cultural significance, especially for Atlanta.
- B.Dot’s top rappers of the year: Nas, Joey Badass, Jid, Wale, and Clipse.
- Emphasis on artists’ ability to remain true to themselves as a mark of longevity.
- Integration of hip hop with mainstream brands like Levi’s seen as a “full circle” for culture and business.
Quote Highlights:
- B.Dot on Outkast:
  
  “I call them gold school artists, not old school. It means everything...these are legendary icons…” (37:36)
- On Nas’s relevance:
  
  “It’s a special gift to not adhere to what the world around you is doing. It takes a certain genius and stubbornness.” (38:41 — quoted from the Joe Budden podcast)
- On music video evolution with streaming:
  
  "People are going to get the music whether...streaming, word of mouth...As long as the music is good, people are gonna get it." (41:24)
Timestamp: [37:11] – [43:11]

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

Ari Melber: "The folks who want something public usually think it will help them, let the world see…"
— [02:25]
Andrew Weissmann: “If this was really an effort to ... show that he was vindictive ... then put it out there publicly ... I think they're afraid.”
— [08:42]
Susie Wiles (via Vanity Fair): "I don't think Trump wakes up thinking about retribution, but when there's an opportunity, he'll go for it..."
— [05:27]
Ari Melber: "It’s funny as long as it fails. If it starts working...we got bigger problems."
— [19:46]
Dylan Ratigan: "...Amazon is inclined to do that. I believe there’s a huge disconnection right now in the idea of journalism as a thing that even exists..."
— [28:38]
Dylan Ratigan: “I believe 2026 is a cliff year in a way that will bring up massive issues regarding unemployment…"
— [32:09]
Brian "B.Dot" Miller: “I call them gold school artists, not old school. It means everything...these are legendary icons…”
— [37:36]
Tyler, the Creator (clip, via B.Dot): "When I get to snapping, like, do really got the juice. Like Tupac. I've been rocking by myself. I'm through. You jump off the porch. Me, I flew..."
— [42:19]

Natural Flow and Takeaways

The episode moves deftly from the urgent legal and political issues of the Trump era—underscoring government secrecy, retribution, and assaults on free expression—to the resilient power of culture and the looming socioeconomic disruptions ahead. Through candid interviews and sharp analysis, Ari Melber situates these events in a larger historic and societal context, using both legal expertise and pop culture awareness to connect with a wide public.

Listeners come away understanding not just what is happening, but why these stories matter to democracy, justice, media, and the broader cultural pulse as America nears the end of a tumultuous year.

End of Summary.

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Transcript

A (0:00)

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No purchase necessary. VGW Group Voidwear prohibited by law. CTNC's 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino. Welcome to the beat. A lot coming up tonight, including more from the bombshell reporting in that Vanity Fair report. The top Trump White House official savaging at times him, his personality, Elon Musk, other people in the administration, J.D. vance. That continues to echo and ricochet for the administration. If you happen to be watching the news last night or today, you've probably heard a bit about it. So we have more on that bombshell coming up. But our top story right now is a name you might remember, Jack Smith. He was the first federal prosecutor to ever indict a president. He has prosecuted people in both parties, including Democrat John Edwards. He did that, as we all remember. He made a type of precedent in history. The Supreme Court ultimately stopped that prosecution. And he's back in the news because he was on Capitol Hill, as you see today, speaking for one of the first times about this. I'll say more about the rare times Mr. Smith has spoken to speak at all. But this was a formal legal setting as he gave hours of secret closed door testimony to the House Judiciary Committee. He is still going at this hour. We have some readouts of what he said. Although it is not a public hearing. It's not like the big hearings where we have the video. But we have heard that he said the probe that they did and the prosecution they pursued had developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that then President Trump on his way out of office, having lost in 2020, engaged in criminal schemes to try to overturn that loss to steal the election. He said the basis for those charges rests with Trump and his actions, not with the DOJ that ultimately found what he calls that evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. He said he'd do it all again, regardless of whether the President was a Republican or a Democrat. This private testimony came about because Republican lawmakers wanted to do it this way. And that's actually interesting because as we all know from following politics, when there is politics involved, as there often is in Congress, the folks who want something public usually think it will help them let the world see. And the folks who want something secret or private usually have the opposite view. Better to deal with it however they need to. There's all sorts of reasons people testify in government but not lose control of a public setting. And so that hangs over this. And I want to be clear with you, we have seen both examples. This is perfectly lawful. The Congress can subpoena individuals, and especially in the national security context, they often deem for substantive reasons to make it private. It's not automatically good or bad one way or the other. But in this instance, they've used their lawful powers to basically try to talk to Jack Smith while hiding what he has to say today, at least from video. And House Democrats have a problem with that.

A (4:08)

Because had he done so, it would have been absolutely devastating to the President and all the President's men. Now, that's the Democrats view. We have covered what, as he put there in a Nixon reference, the President, all his men tried to do in this case, men and women. They started with those lawsuits and the elector plots, which are green in our tabulation, because that while they were trying to overturn the results, they weren't crimes. But then as they went on over the calendar and hatched new plots later, as they became more desperate, we know what they did were crimes because they have been tried and convicted. Many of the other individuals involved, the President, of course, never stopped, stood trial. He later freed every last person convicted of those red arrow plots and those crimes. So Smith is the first federal prosecutor to do this, and he ultimately did it twice because he said he had evidence of Trump committing crimes in two different arenas, the classified documents, as well as this effort to overturn the election. Now, Smith rarely speaks in public. I want to say a bit more about that because we have seen a lot of people in these jobs and people do them different ways. And Smith could have by now done a lot more press. He certainly could have done TV interviews. We've all asked, but he hasn't. Indeed, one of the only times he's publicly spoken about this in a setting you might call an interview or an exchange was with DOJ vet Andrew Weissman. They made some news at that time. We covered that, although Smith was extremely careful. But he didn't go do the big other television opportunities or some national speaking tour, et cetera, et cetera. And he's speaking today, of course, under request. The man who conducted that last discussion, Andrew Weissman, joins me in a moment. All of this comes amid the Vanity Fair interview with Trump's chief of staff, Susie Wiles, that has really rocked the Trump White House. She discusses exactly the issue of going after people who persecute, who prosecuted or investigated Donald Trump. I mean, guess he would say persecuted. But that revenge issue is a problem if you admit that that's your goal. That's what's called illegal selective prosecution. And in the bombshell interview, which of course she touched on many big topics, given the news tonight, I want to remind you, she said, I don't think Trump wake up thinking about retribution, but when there's an opportunity, he'll go for it. And as for the case against New York Attorney General James, she said that might be the one retribution that alone could doom that case. She also in this interview where she was, well, a series of interviews really, but came all out. In one article, she voiced her skepticism of one of the most extreme pro violence anti police acts by any president in history, Donald Trump pardoning all of the January 6th criminals, including those who savagely attacked police and who were convicted of sedition. In the new interview, she says she was on board with the people that were happenstancers or didn't do anything violent. And we certainly know what everybody did because the FBI has done such an incredible job, that is basically her breaking with what he did, which was pardon all the violent people. Reuters reports Trump DOJ is going further. They want to go after the people who held those violent criminals accountable. That's according to some pardon defendants. And so what we have here is years later, a bit more of how opposite and through the looking glass Everything is. J.D. vance, Susie Wiles. Now, recently a heck of a lot of other people around Trump said to pardon the violence seditionists would be too far even in their maga fied world. But he did it. And so we're coming up on an anniversary here in January where everyone has to look back and remember that's how he started this presidency. And when he did it day one, a lot of people on the right and the business community sort of went along with it, put it to the side. But as his popularity wanes, as Jack Smith continues to stand up, and others do, to these revenge prosecutions that may continue to be one of the greatest scandals right in the wide open daylight of this presidency. It is one that we have to live with as a country because the pardon power is not very reviewable and certainly not reversible. And so while Smith continues to testify behind closed doors, at this hour, we bring in a special guest, Andrew Weissman, who, as I mentioned, interviewed him and was FBI general counsel and a Mueller prosecutor. Your view on what matters about Jack Smith today? TESTIFYING.

A (22:32)

The president or senior administration officials about using the FCC to go after critics? Well, first of all, Senator, I don't get into the, the specifics of conversations that I have. Okay, well, let me. Might have been the better answer. Might have been no. It is true that agency heads might have some confidential conversations. We can respect that. But if they are about violating the Constitution, the first thing they put in the Bill of Rights and you're at the fcc. No, it'd be better to be able to say no. We've never talked about censoring critics because that's not what we do. That's not how we abuse power. For whatever reason, he couldn't give that answer under oath. Trump is attacking outlets with sweeping claims and lawsuits. Some are folding. Others, like the Times and the Journal, are fighting back. Trump admits he wants to abuse regulatory powers to censor critics or get better coverage. That's an ongoing issue in the government review of this Warner Brothers merger and related questions about who will own CNN when it's all over. And this comes as local independent media also face corporate and MAGA pressure. We reported this week on the cancellation of a popular radio show, Ebro in the Morning. The hosts say that came after pressure to ease up on Trump and one of his allies, former or sometime Democrat Cuomo. We are in a crucial moment for free expression in this country. It's a story about the Constitution and about how business works, how business can properly work. I am, of course, speaking to you through a business right now. It just happens to be an independent, one that supports independent free speech values. With that in mind, we bring the great Dylan Ratigan, an expert on business and speaking his mind, to the table. Next. Will you commit here today that you will not move to revoke any media license for broadcasters or retaliate, Sir, Any broadcaster that complies with the public interest standard is not in any risk at all. And you get to determine what is the public interest. So if the president is offended, you think, wow, that's the public interest. No one should ever offend a president. That seems to be countered. Our whole history in this country.