DOJ Vet Who Prosecuted Trump Testifies

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Beat with Ari Melber

Episode Title: DOJ Vet Who Prosecuted Trump Testifies
Date: December 18, 2025
Host: Ari Melber
Notable Guests: Andrew Weissmann, Dylan Ratigan, Brian "B.Dot" Miller

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Overview

This episode of The Beat with Ari Melber dives into a series of historic and highly charged events: the secret congressional testimony of Special Counsel Jack Smith, responsible for prosecuting Donald Trump; the ongoing controversies around political retribution and selective prosecutions under the Trump administration; the failed governmental effort to censor media figures like Jimmy Kimmel; and reflections on free speech, business influences, and the evolving pop culture scene as 2025 closes. Ari is joined by legal expert Andrew Weissmann and business journalist Dylan Ratigan, with music journalist Brian "B.Dot" Miller rounding out the show for a pop culture wrap.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Jack Smith’s Secret Testimony on Trump Prosecution

• Summary:
  Jack Smith, the first federal prosecutor ever to indict a sitting president, provided private testimony to the House Judiciary Committee regarding his investigations into Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election and his handling of classified documents.
• Details:
  • Smith affirmed that his prosecutions were strictly grounded in evidence and law, not politics.
  • He stated he would have pursued these cases “regardless of whether the President was a Republican or a Democrat.”
  • Smith’s testimony was behind closed doors at the request of Republican lawmakers, raising concerns about transparency.
  • Democrats argued that making the hearing private was an attempt to "hide" the damning findings.
• Quote Highlights:
  • Ari Melber, explaining the secrecy:

    "The folks who want something public usually think it will help them, let the world see. And the folks who want something secret or private usually have the opposite view." (02:25)

  • Ari on the significance of Smith's testimony:

    "[Smith] said the probe...developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that then President Trump...engaged in criminal schemes to try to overturn that loss..." (01:40)

• Timestamp: [00:54] – [08:34]

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2. Political Retribution and the Use of Pardons

• Summary:
  The episode explores Trump's unprecedented use of pardons, particularly for January 6th offenders, and the reported aim to retaliate against investigators like Smith. It also highlights the implications of such selective prosecution on American justice and norms.
• Details:
  • Discussion of the Vanity Fair interview with Trump’s ex-chief of staff, Susie Wiles, who commented on Trump's penchant for vengeance:

    "I don't think Trump wakes up thinking about retribution, but when there's an opportunity, he'll go for it..." (05:27)

  • Smith’s ongoing ordeal facing threats and retaliation.
  • Referenced failed attempts by the administration to bring retributive cases (e.g., against AG Letitia James).
• Quote Highlights:
  • Ari Melber on Smith’s courage:

    "Jack Smith, a career prosecutor, conducted this investigation based on the facts and based on the law and nothing more." (09:54)

  • Andrew Weissmann on political motivations for secrecy:

    "If the Republicans say it’s an effort to show he was vindictive...then put it out there publicly… I think they're afraid." (08:42)

• Timestamp: [05:27] – [11:51]

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3. FCC, Free Speech, and the Kimmel Controversy

• Summary:
  A segment covers the Trump FCC’s failed attempt to remove Jimmy Kimmel from the airwaves, and the bipartisan resistance it provoked. The issue becomes a lightning rod for debates on free speech and government overreach.
• Details:
  • Kimmel's ratings increased post-controversy, and he recently renewed his deal.
  • FCC Chairman Brandon Carr faced congressional grilling over his attempts to police broadcast content, which both Democrats and some Republicans opposed as "Mafioso tactics."
  • Carr controversially claimed the FCC is no longer an independent agency—immediately contradicted by federal law and by changes to the agency’s mission statement post-hearing.
• Quote Highlights:
  • Ari Melber on Carr's paradoxical infamy:

    “He is turning the Federal Communications Commission into the Federal Censorship Commission…You should resign." (20:48)

  • Ari Melber summing up the stakes:

    "It’s funny as long as it fails. If it starts working, and this feels like leftist Cuba or the Soviet Union...we got bigger problems." (19:46)

  • Sen. Ted Cruz (quoted):

    "...Mafioso tactics, including, 'We can do this the easy way or the hard way...'" (18:17)

• Timestamp: [17:28] – [22:29]

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4. Media Power, Business Pressure, and the Trump Era

• Summary:
  Ari and guest Dylan Ratigan unpack the use of business interests to gain favor with the Trump White House, from media company maneuvers (Amazon's $40M Melania documentary) to the complex relationship between large firms and the administration.
• Details:
  • Amazon's purchase of the Melania documentary cited as an example of corporations currying favor.
  • Ratigan notes that true defense of free press is now falling to big newspapers and their law firms, while many others play it safe.
  • The discussion pivots to economic trends, with Ratigan predicting an AI-driven labor cliff and a generational employment crisis—overshadowed by constant “Trump stories.”
• Quote Highlights:
  • Dylan Ratigan:

    “Amazon is inclined to do that...anything to endear them to a president who likes money and compliments…” (28:38)

  • On job market trends:

    “Job growth in the United States is the slowest it has been since 2003...the movement in AI is way, way, way more than people realize and way faster than people realize...” (30:01)

  • Ratigan on the incoming AI jobs cliff:

    "I believe 2026 is a cliff year in a way that will bring up massive issues regarding unemployment…we’ll have a revolution among young people." (32:09)

• Timestamp: [25:07] – [32:32]

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5. Pop Culture Year-in-Review – Music & Representation

• Summary:
  The episode closes with music journalist Brian "B.Dot" Miller reflecting on hip hop milestones, Outkast's entry into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, and the continued cultural impact of veteran and emerging artists.
• Details:
  • Outkast’s “gold school” legacy and cultural significance, especially for Atlanta.
  • B.Dot’s top rappers of the year: Nas, Joey Badass, Jid, Wale, and Clipse.
  • Emphasis on artists’ ability to remain true to themselves as a mark of longevity.
  • Integration of hip hop with mainstream brands like Levi’s seen as a “full circle” for culture and business.
• Quote Highlights:
  • B.Dot on Outkast:

    “I call them gold school artists, not old school. It means everything...these are legendary icons…” (37:36)

  • On Nas’s relevance:

    “It’s a special gift to not adhere to what the world around you is doing. It takes a certain genius and stubbornness.” (38:41 — quoted from the Joe Budden podcast)

  • On music video evolution with streaming:

    "People are going to get the music whether...streaming, word of mouth...As long as the music is good, people are gonna get it." (41:24)

• Timestamp: [37:11] – [43:11]

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Ari Melber: "The folks who want something public usually think it will help them, let the world see…"
  — [02:25]
• Andrew Weissmann: “If this was really an effort to ... show that he was vindictive ... then put it out there publicly ... I think they're afraid.”
  — [08:42]
• Susie Wiles (via Vanity Fair): "I don't think Trump wakes up thinking about retribution, but when there's an opportunity, he'll go for it..."
  — [05:27]
• Ari Melber: "It’s funny as long as it fails. If it starts working...we got bigger problems."
  — [19:46]
• Dylan Ratigan: "...Amazon is inclined to do that. I believe there’s a huge disconnection right now in the idea of journalism as a thing that even exists..."
  — [28:38]
• Dylan Ratigan: “I believe 2026 is a cliff year in a way that will bring up massive issues regarding unemployment…"
  — [32:09]
• Brian "B.Dot" Miller: “I call them gold school artists, not old school. It means everything...these are legendary icons…”
  — [37:36]
• Tyler, the Creator (clip, via B.Dot): "When I get to snapping, like, do really got the juice. Like Tupac. I've been rocking by myself. I'm through. You jump off the porch. Me, I flew..."
  — [42:19]

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Natural Flow and Takeaways

The episode moves deftly from the urgent legal and political issues of the Trump era—underscoring government secrecy, retribution, and assaults on free expression—to the resilient power of culture and the looming socioeconomic disruptions ahead. Through candid interviews and sharp analysis, Ari Melber situates these events in a larger historic and societal context, using both legal expertise and pop culture awareness to connect with a wide public.

Listeners come away understanding not just what is happening, but why these stories matter to democracy, justice, media, and the broader cultural pulse as America nears the end of a tumultuous year.

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End of Summary.

Transcript

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No purchase necessary. VGW Group Voidwear prohibited by law. CTNC's 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino. Welcome to the beat. A lot coming up tonight, including more from the bombshell reporting in that Vanity Fair report. The top Trump White House official savaging at times him, his personality, Elon Musk, other people in the administration, J.D. vance. That continues to echo and ricochet for the administration. If you happen to be watching the news last night or today, you've probably heard a bit about it. So we have more on that bombshell coming up. But our top story right now is a name you might remember, Jack Smith. He was the first federal prosecutor to ever indict a president. He has prosecuted people in both parties, including Democrat John Edwards. He did that, as we all remember. He made a type of precedent in history. The Supreme Court ultimately stopped that prosecution. And he's back in the news because he was on Capitol Hill, as you see today, speaking for one of the first times about this. I'll say more about the rare times Mr. Smith has spoken to speak at all. But this was a formal legal setting as he gave hours of secret closed door testimony to the House Judiciary Committee. He is still going at this hour. We have some readouts of what he said. Although it is not a public hearing. It's not like the big hearings where we have the video. But we have heard that he said the probe that they did and the prosecution they pursued had developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that then President Trump on his way out of office, having lost in 2020, engaged in criminal schemes to try to overturn that loss to steal the election. He said the basis for those charges rests with Trump and his actions, not with the DOJ that ultimately found what he calls that evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. He said he'd do it all again, regardless of whether the President was a Republican or a Democrat. This private testimony came about because Republican lawmakers wanted to do it this way. And that's actually interesting because as we all know from following politics, when there is politics involved, as there often is in Congress, the folks who want something public usually think it will help them let the world see. And the folks who want something secret or private usually have the opposite view. Better to deal with it however they need to. There's all sorts of reasons people testify in government but not lose control of a public setting. And so that hangs over this. And I want to be clear with you, we have seen both examples. This is perfectly lawful. The Congress can subpoena individuals, and especially in the national security context, they often deem for substantive reasons to make it private. It's not automatically good or bad one way or the other. But in this instance, they've used their lawful powers to basically try to talk to Jack Smith while hiding what he has to say today, at least from video. And House Democrats have a problem with that.

[C]

It is absolutely absurd that the Chairman.

[A]

Is not having this testimony in public.

[D]

This president, these Republicans, want to hide.

[A]

From the American people the results of this investigation. Chairman Jordan made an excellent decision in.

[C]

Not allowing Jack Smith to testify publicly.

[A]

Because had he done so, it would have been absolutely devastating to the President and all the President's men. Now, that's the Democrats view. We have covered what, as he put there in a Nixon reference, the President, all his men tried to do in this case, men and women. They started with those lawsuits and the elector plots, which are green in our tabulation, because that while they were trying to overturn the results, they weren't crimes. But then as they went on over the calendar and hatched new plots later, as they became more desperate, we know what they did were crimes because they have been tried and convicted. Many of the other individuals involved, the President, of course, never stopped, stood trial. He later freed every last person convicted of those red arrow plots and those crimes. So Smith is the first federal prosecutor to do this, and he ultimately did it twice because he said he had evidence of Trump committing crimes in two different arenas, the classified documents, as well as this effort to overturn the election. Now, Smith rarely speaks in public. I want to say a bit more about that because we have seen a lot of people in these jobs and people do them different ways. And Smith could have by now done a lot more press. He certainly could have done TV interviews. We've all asked, but he hasn't. Indeed, one of the only times he's publicly spoken about this in a setting you might call an interview or an exchange was with DOJ vet Andrew Weissman. They made some news at that time. We covered that, although Smith was extremely careful. But he didn't go do the big other television opportunities or some national speaking tour, et cetera, et cetera. And he's speaking today, of course, under request. The man who conducted that last discussion, Andrew Weissman, joins me in a moment. All of this comes amid the Vanity Fair interview with Trump's chief of staff, Susie Wiles, that has really rocked the Trump White House. She discusses exactly the issue of going after people who persecute, who prosecuted or investigated Donald Trump. I mean, guess he would say persecuted. But that revenge issue is a problem if you admit that that's your goal. That's what's called illegal selective prosecution. And in the bombshell interview, which of course she touched on many big topics, given the news tonight, I want to remind you, she said, I don't think Trump wake up thinking about retribution, but when there's an opportunity, he'll go for it. And as for the case against New York Attorney General James, she said that might be the one retribution that alone could doom that case. She also in this interview where she was, well, a series of interviews really, but came all out. In one article, she voiced her skepticism of one of the most extreme pro violence anti police acts by any president in history, Donald Trump pardoning all of the January 6th criminals, including those who savagely attacked police and who were convicted of sedition. In the new interview, she says she was on board with the people that were happenstancers or didn't do anything violent. And we certainly know what everybody did because the FBI has done such an incredible job, that is basically her breaking with what he did, which was pardon all the violent people. Reuters reports Trump DOJ is going further. They want to go after the people who held those violent criminals accountable. That's according to some pardon defendants. And so what we have here is years later, a bit more of how opposite and through the looking glass Everything is. J.D. vance, Susie Wiles. Now, recently a heck of a lot of other people around Trump said to pardon the violence seditionists would be too far even in their maga fied world. But he did it. And so we're coming up on an anniversary here in January where everyone has to look back and remember that's how he started this presidency. And when he did it day one, a lot of people on the right and the business community sort of went along with it, put it to the side. But as his popularity wanes, as Jack Smith continues to stand up, and others do, to these revenge prosecutions that may continue to be one of the greatest scandals right in the wide open daylight of this presidency. It is one that we have to live with as a country because the pardon power is not very reviewable and certainly not reversible. And so while Smith continues to testify behind closed doors, at this hour, we bring in a special guest, Andrew Weissman, who, as I mentioned, interviewed him and was FBI general counsel and a Mueller prosecutor. Your view on what matters about Jack Smith today? TESTIFYING.

[B]

Well, I think the thing that matters is the fact that it's not public. That is something that the Republicans insisted on. Jack Smith wrote a letter saying that he would like to testify publicly. Now the public can decide whether they believe him or they disbelieve him or whether he showed good or bad judge if he testifies publicly. But you really have to ask yourself, and I ask myself, why isn't it public? What is it that people are afraid of in not letting the public see him answer those questions? And to me, that is, you know, it tells you everything about what's going on that if this was really an effort to if the Republicans say it's an effort to show that he was vindictive and that he did this in a, in a way that was unjustified and he was the one it weaponized, then put, put it out there publicly for people to judge that. And I think the fact that they're not doing it is I think that they're afraid. I really do. I think that there's only one reason that you would do that, is that you're afraid of the public actually seeing him and saying, you know what? I think he has a point here.

[A]

Was, was Smith's lawyer, Jack is showing tremendous courage in light of the remarkable and unprecedented retribution campaign against him by this administration and this White House. Let's be clear. Jack Smith, a career prosecutor, conducted this investigation based on the facts and based on the law and nothing more. ANDREW.

[B]

Well, I should first let people know I've known Lanny Brewer since law school, so that's many, many, many years ago. And he is a leading defense lawyer. He was a prosecutor. He was actually head of the criminal division. So Jack is, is very well represented. But you really do have to ask yourself here, as you said, Ari that this is sort of topsy tur. This is the kind of thing that, you know, where's the beef? What is it that you are saying he did that's so wrong? Do you have evidence that he was, that Donald Trump was improperly charged? I mean, is the Mar a Lago case witch hunt? I mean, I think, you know, everybody who looks at this in a dispassionate way sees overwhelming evidence. And the January 6th case, you know, never got to trial. But there obviously was substantial evidence of that. And you know what, the members of Congress lived through it. They are the ones who actually know firsthand a lot of the information in terms of the results of it. And so this is really one where it's a, to me, this is all a very sad reflection on Congress and the state of our union.

[A]

And we're now approaching a year of this second term. So we have some of the record of who Trump put in the revenge cases. Aren't we working? They've failed now three times to go after James and the new bombshell reports. And we have more on that tonight out of Vanity Fair. The number one aide in the White House admitting, yeah, that one's probably fake. Probably made a probably unlawful selective prosecution. Of course, the comey of this goes back and forth. And you had a front row seat to all that. And then you've got other charges against the mayor of Newark who was dropped. Pam Bondi said, I got an Epstein client list. No, I don't. There was no blackmail. Maybe there's open probes. The number two at the FBI built a media career clamoring for Epstein transparency, which they then fought to the end. And now the deadline is this Friday. And you're a skilled Washington veteran enough to know a bit about coincidences. Andrew, I'll ask you, is it a coincidence that with Bongino, FBI number two having failed on his own many vows to fix the Epstein problem in government, we Learned tonight, Wednesday, FBI's number two tells colleagues he's moving on. FBI Deputy Director Bongino wants to go back to his show and he will depart after what Bloomberg, very nonpartisan sort of financial outlet calls a very rocky tenure. At a minimum, Friday's the Epstein deadline. What do you see there? And how does that compare with sort of the Smith record and the other past records of how hard it is to do these jobs compared to people who, I guess, can't quite finish out a year?

[B]

Well, first of the retribution campaign, there's no question that in court it is failing. You have grand jurors repeatedly not voting to indict. That doesn't happen in a normal world. Jack Smith reportedly a similar point today, saying, you know, his cases, the grand jurors in two different districts voted to indict. He doesn't have the Letitia James problem where Donald Trump has sent people in to try and bring a retributive indictment and the grand jurors are having none of it. But it's important for people to know that even though it's not working in court, there still are real problems in terms of retribution, in terms of the FBI, in terms of lawyers who have been fired, who've been demoted. We're losing the expertise of those people when they are no longer in the positions to fight for us and to do their work. And I think Don Bongino, I think there's not a single person in this country who could say that to be the number two person at the FBI, that he was the most qualified person out there to hold that position. That just seems like a fanciful claim. And so he really didn't have the experience and background to be holding such an important position. Obviously, he's had a very rocky tenure. We've seen that he was sort of layered. There was somebody who was put in to kind of do his job when he really wasn't doing it. And for somebody like me who worked at the FBI, it's really sad to see that they don't have the leadership that they deserve.

[A]

And I'm over on time. But you think it might relate to the Epstein deadline or nowhere to know?

[B]

I don't know. I mean, I could see that he doesn't want to be a part of it anymore. There's obviously cognitive dissonance in terms of what he had been saying and what's happening now because he was clamoring, as you pointed out, to have it all revealed. And the president of the United States today, he doesn't need to wait for a deadline. If the president wanted to release everything, he could do it.

[A]

Absolutely. All right, Andrew, thank you. Our leadoff guest on these big stories. Appreciate it. We have more on the chief of staff's blockbuster interview coming up. But Trump's failed attempt to take down Kimmel got grilled. Today we talk about where do you find accountability. Some of it occurred by Democrats on the Hill. We're back with that story in 90 seconds. Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Reddick. You know what's more nerve wracking than waiting for qualifying results?

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Moments after we taped our show last night, the mad Red Hatter wrote, I can't believe ABC Fake News gave Jimmy Kimmel his job back. You can't believe they gave me my job back.

[C]

I can't believe we gave you your job back.

[A]

Jimmy Kimmel had the last laugh in the Trump FCC's failed bid to get him canceled. As you saw there, he won the battle and his ratings rose after that clash. We can also report new he's just renewed his deal at a time when these companies are trimming late night budgets. Kimmel beat the censorship efforts of this particular bureaucrat, FCC chair Brandon Carr, and he found support along the way from a broad spectrum of the public. Even in these divided times. Left, right, legal experts, liberal allies who generally might have agreed with Kimmel's punchlines, and support from political opponents like Ted Cruz. This was rare unity against the bureaucrat's face. You see here a man who is more infamous than famous, more loser than winner in his efforts to use your tax dollars for a big government anti free speech agenda, one that Cruz blasted as quote, Mafioso tactics, including this frankly when you see stuff like this, I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead. That was the failed plot. The government trying to do the programming, and nobody liked that. It has left Carr as kind of a bipartisan villain in Washington, which is a rarity. So often we hear about this side hanging, hating side and vice versa. He's criticized, as I mentioned, by some on the right. He's loathed on the left for sure. And then Trump might see him as a kind of attack dog, a lightning rod, but he's not a winner. He's become more of a joke. They better be on their best behavior, otherwise they'll have to answer to my.

[C]

Attack dog at the fcc, Brandon Carr.

[B]

I always feel like somebody's free.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And I have no privacy. All right, thanks, Brandon. It's funny as long as it fails. If it starts working, and this feels like leftist Cuba or the Soviet Union or Hungary, we got bigger problems. Carr's attacks in the First Amendment are in the news tonight because he faced a type of reckoning in Congress today. His first public grilling over those plots that had they worked, which would be certainly illegal, we'd be covering a Supreme Court case about it. Democrats using their platform today to hammer Carr. Here's how some of those questions sounded.

[B]

Yes or no, do you still agree that political satire should be protected speech?

[A]

Chairman Carr, you have repeatedly signaled your desire to use merger reviews to force companies to enact policies favored by the Trump administration.

[B]

You are going after broadcast stations except for Fox and making threats.

[A]

He is turning the Federal Communications Commission into the Federal Censorship Commission. It's a betrayal of the FCC's mission. You should resign. Mr. Chairman, you are creating a chilling effect. That's how it went. Some of Carr's answers were evasive. Some were wrong. On the law. Remember, the plots he's pushing for Trump are contradicted by his own public statements, and not from when he was, you know, in grad school, but from while he was on the fcc. He said it cannot do under law what he's now trying to do. It cannot, for example, police speech misusing a public interest standard for censorship. He also seemed to blunder today, claiming the FCC is no longer an independent agency, which would actually possibly put more blame on Trump, depending on how you read it. That's how Axios referred to the extraordinary statement. The FCC is, however, organized independently under Law. It is not like one of the cabinet agencies where you report directly into the president and go to cabinet meetings. This is kind of basic stuff. I can tell you that in their mission statement, they mentioned their independence. They hastily removed that from the mission statement on the website today to try to match what Carr said after he said it. Here's how his role was under scrutiny as well. His relationship to Trump. Is President Trump your boss? President Trump has designated me as chairman of the fcc. I think it comes as no surprise that I'm aligned with President Trump on policy. I think that's why he designated me as chairman. But ultimately, do you consider him your boss? Ultimately, the. Well, President Trump designated me as chairman. I can be fired by the president. The president is the head of the executive branch. The decisions of the commission.

[B]

No, he's your boss. Have you ever had a conversation with.

[A]

The president or senior administration officials about using the FCC to go after critics? Well, first of all, Senator, I don't get into the, the specifics of conversations that I have. Okay, well, let me. Might have been the better answer. Might have been no. It is true that agency heads might have some confidential conversations. We can respect that. But if they are about violating the Constitution, the first thing they put in the Bill of Rights and you're at the fcc. No, it'd be better to be able to say no. We've never talked about censoring critics because that's not what we do. That's not how we abuse power. For whatever reason, he couldn't give that answer under oath. Trump is attacking outlets with sweeping claims and lawsuits. Some are folding. Others, like the Times and the Journal, are fighting back. Trump admits he wants to abuse regulatory powers to censor critics or get better coverage. That's an ongoing issue in the government review of this Warner Brothers merger and related questions about who will own CNN when it's all over. And this comes as local independent media also face corporate and MAGA pressure. We reported this week on the cancellation of a popular radio show, Ebro in the Morning. The hosts say that came after pressure to ease up on Trump and one of his allies, former or sometime Democrat Cuomo. We are in a crucial moment for free expression in this country. It's a story about the Constitution and about how business works, how business can properly work. I am, of course, speaking to you through a business right now. It just happens to be an independent, one that supports independent free speech values. With that in mind, we bring the great Dylan Ratigan, an expert on business and speaking his mind, to the table. Next. Will you commit here today that you will not move to revoke any media license for broadcasters or retaliate, Sir, Any broadcaster that complies with the public interest standard is not in any risk at all. And you get to determine what is the public interest. So if the president is offended, you think, wow, that's the public interest. No one should ever offend a president. That seems to be countered. Our whole history in this country.

[E]

The.

[A]

FCC pressuring media businesses, and now Congress pressuring the fcc. We're watching it all play out. We're joined by an expert on business and I would argue, speaking his mind, Dylan Ratigan, journalist and author. He's anchored shows on this very channel, Mississippi, as well as CNBC. He's now CEO of Euphoria sneakers and only owner of reservations.com. welcome back.

[C]

Nice to see you. Nice to see you. Happy Hanukkah.

[A]

Happy Hanukkah.

[C]

Happy Hanukkah. Pleasure to be here.

[A]

When you look at this history, they lost the Kimmel fight, but they continue to press the media business, which also has its own evolution and business pressures in the market, they seem to be exploiting that. How do you see this playing out right now?

[C]

This one I actually feel like is it's indicative of the sort of absence of limits, I think, in the executive branch in terms of their perception of their domain, which is sort of without any boundaries. But I think of all the things that have happened up to this point, I'm the least worried about it. The Republicans were very quick, I think, to step in in alignment with the Democrats.

[A]

Least worried because it failed.

[C]

Yeah, it's not gonna happen.

[A]

And it failed because, as you mentioned, Republican viewers doesn't like it, and Republicans came in against it. Yeah, but what about.

[C]

So you have, like, you have a wild idea over the line. I mean, I think there's a lot of people, myself included, that might like to see more boundaries put on the executive branch that we've seen from the Republican Party. But this was one where they clearly overstepped a boundary that really summoned some pretty strong resistance from their own party in a way that I think was very beneficial. Not to mention the. I mean, you kind of hit the nail on the head. I mean, it's the first, right? It is the founding. It is the entire premise of America is free speech.

[A]

What about Republicans who say they're the free market party? This stuff feels very big government anti.

[C]

I mean, but all the rhetoric is so disconnected at this point. I mean, when you have a centralized economy, which is basically what this tariff driven economy is with all the contracts being dealt through Trump and all the rest of it. There's nothing about the current Republican Party or certainly the executive branch expression of the current Republican Party that really plays into anything having to do with freedom. Yeah.

[A]

Well then you have how some companies are playing and I mentioned the Wall Street Journal considered maybe more businessy or on the right owned by Murdoch. The New York Times, they're fighting and they're in court fighting. They're saying we stand by our stories and our reporters. You got a bunch of other folks that are mushy.

[C]

Too many.

[A]

Too many. Amazon law firms. The law firms, these Alex media agencies, the universities. I want to show you Amazon spent $40 million for a documentary about Melania. It's not clear they're going to get that money back. It's not clear that they paid the right amount. They may have overpaid the Trump family and that's why it's suspicious. But we do have a clip from it. I'm sure you've been curious what's the.

[C]

Next really the reason I came back to America was in hopes that I might get to see you and you might have access to super exclusive Melania documentary preview footage.

[A]

Roll it it everyone wants to know. So here it is. Hi, Mr. President.

[B]

Congratulations.

[A]

Did you watch it?

[B]

I did not. Yeah, I will see it on the news.

[C]

And I'm to comment on that. I. I mean you want me to an opinion as to whether that's a going to be recover the 40 mil.

[A]

I'll broaden the question. First, I wanted to look at you and hold the moment for a second.

[C]

Okay. There's an exciting. There's music editing.

[A]

Second, you are a business expert.

[C]

Charismatic accent.

[A]

What is Amazon? A mighty company with a powerful owner. What are they buying there?

[C]

They're buying access to Amazon has a whole different conversation because you really saw Bezos make a decision before the election when they pulled any endorsement in the Washington Post. Bezos has made a very clear strategic decision to be as friendly with this president as possible. And I would suggest and I have no information so this is entirely inferred or speculative on my part. But whether it's a Melania document or anything else that just across the on the margins where Amazon can make decisions that endear them to a president who likes money and compliments, I believe Amazon is inclined to do that. I believe there's a really a huge disconnection right now in the idea of journalism as a thing that even exists or truth or facts as a thing that even Exists, as we all know. And so I do actually think that it's really now been left to the big newspapers and the law firms that represent the big newspapers, who I think probably have the strongest backbone, starting with Murdoch and the Wall Street Journal, to deal with the legal responsibility for defending the First Amendment. Because I don't think we're seeing it anyplace else. It's kind of a sad state of affairs, but I still don't worry that much about the fcc.

[A]

Yeah, big picture, let's look at the jobs. You have the job growth plummeting.

[C]

You have the hiring stopped is what you have.

[A]

Explain. Here's some examples.

[C]

So, so a couple things people say. One of. Let's just quickly set aside the unemployment rate. 4.6% doesn't measure people not looking for work. Most of the people that are not working are not looking for work. So they're not in the unemployment or there'll be 30% of the people. They're home, they're depressed, they're, they're not even in that number. What's happening? Job growth in the United States is the slowest it has been since 2003. If you eliminate the US government and healthcare as two sectors of hiring, there is no hiring. The movement in AI is way, way, way, way, way more than people realize and way faster than people realize. And the first stage of it is to freeze all hiring and see what can be done with what we've got and then use AI to expand productivity with what we've got is sort of whether that's at the agencies, whether that's at the law firms, whether that's at the banks, all these places. And the next thing you're going to see is not only an absence of hiring, which is already set in, but you're going to start to see more and more layoffs. And they're going to hit the younger human beings who typically have come into these transitional jobs in cities, whether it's in Tokyo or Los Angeles or New York or Milan or London or Berlin or Moscow. And they're not going to exist. There's not going to be the entry level PR job, the entry level consulting job.

[A]

When you say it's obscured, why is that labor picture obscured?

[C]

Because it is so overwhelming to think about one in three jobs going away for all of these young city type people that there's nothing even really to do. It's like when I was on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange years ago and they transitioned from analog to digital. They were telling all the floor Traders. Well, you know, this is gonna take a while and this is gonna take some time. And ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. And then on the first day, more than half the day. It didn't take three years to make the transition. It took a few weeks. I believe the rate of change with technology is much, much faster. When it had to cliff. It's not a slope. And I believe 2026 is a cliff year in a way that will bring up massive issues regarding unemployment. At the same time, you see massive issues regarding affordability.

[A]

I think we'll have a revolution among.

[C]

Young people, be the greatest social and political challenge of our lifetimes. And I don't believe it's even been considered right now because everybody's sort of, you're spun up on whatever the latest Trump story is. We did this, he did that, whatever it is, the weather, you know, all these things. And there's a. But there's a. There's a tsunami of a change that's coming. And with two points.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[C]

One, young people support Trump and Mamdani. Why?

[A]

Right, Exactly.

[C]

Same energy.

[A]

One, this is why we love having you on. You cut right to the bone. Right to it.

[C]

I'd like to be here.

[A]

And two, there's an old saying, you know, everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it.

[C]

Is that an old saying?

[A]

Yeah. Really?

[C]

Yeah. Do you know who said that first?

[A]

I think it might have been a Yogi Bear type. Really? Sometimes when it's live news, you know, because you've.

[C]

I was hoping for a 50 cent quote. I've been watching your. I got. My whole relationship has changed.

[A]

I'll give you a 50 quote. Thank you. I hate it.

[C]

That's relevant to the topic. Can you do it? Can you, can you do it? Can you do it that well?

[A]

I hate a liar more than I hate a thief. Okay. A thief is after my salary. A liar is after my reality. Wow. Dylan Ratigan bringing it. When we come back, we have by the end of the hour, artists meeting, the moment of protest. But next, as promised, the blockbuster story we were all over last night. Night, it's been all across the news. Why did this woman, who is Donald Trump's number one aide, blow him up and his vice president. We'll read the quotes, the alcoholism, everything. Next. Trump administration is still withholding this second strike video about the survivors that the US Killed outside of Venezuela. Pressure to release it. The admiral overseeing it has briefed lawmakers and showed the strike video to key lawmakers today. Here's what they said. I was just really deeply disturbed, even shocked.

[B]

The only way this problem gets resolved is to make it public, let everyone see it.

[A]

I think there are serious questions about.

[C]

Criminal culpability here, and there is certainly.

[B]

A need for more intensive, thorough investigation. The administration cannot keep their story straight on why they are there and why they will not release the video.

[A]

Trump and some officials have claimed that this is about the drug war. Trump's chief of staff in that blockbuster interview, though, said that that might just be a step, or what they call a pretext, that this is about regime change. Chief of Staff Wiles telling Vanity Fair Trump wants to keep on blowing the boats up until the Venezuelan president cries uncle. That is a very different rationale for the foreign policy and one that, as the lawmakers say, is going to require a lot more scrutiny. We're going to finish break. When we come back, we have something special, including the pushback around the country that has really refined and defined so much of what it meant for Trump to take office this year. From no kings to culture, that's next. 2025 has already been quite a year. Trump's return to office, of course, started everything in politics seemed like a new era. There were initial signs he might broaden his appeal across the culture. Snoop Dogg performing in D.C. at his inauguration weekend, a decision that drew swift blowback, as did Trump's agenda. From ice to revenge, prosecutions, massive protest this year. And while all that went down, remember, many people also just turned away from politics and daily news and to other things. Pop culture music we can see now there's more media consumption, for example, about those topics than in past decades. Netflix making news today, buying the rights to music shows like the Breakfast Club and other podcasts, giving them an even wider reach. New artists also making a big splash this year, while the big names people have come to know are still dominating. Streaming from Drake and Kendrick Lamar, their rivalry capped by that super bowl halftime show. By the end of the year, we saw 90s era legends like Outkast entering the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. Hey, I'm trippin, I'm sliding, I'm riding. You wouldn't believe it, but I can't unsee it. Lucky I ain't TMZ it, so be it, so be it. I know that there is some black.

[D]

Girl out there, so many black women out there that are watching me right now. And I want to tell you, you can do it.

[A]

Anything is possible.

[C]

Little rooms, great things start in little rooms. Yeah, man, that's it.

[A]

That's it. Great things. Little Rooms. Well, I'm joined now by acclaimed music journalist Brian B. Dot Miller. He's interviewed top artists, worked for Complex and mtv, and just published to mark the end of the year, his much debated list of top rappers of the year. Welcome.

[E]

Welcome, Ari. Thank you, man, for having me. Good to be back.

[A]

Good to see you. Good to have you back.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Outcasts, old school artists. If you don't know them by name, a lot of people know their hits. What does it mean to see them go in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame?

[E]

I call them gold school artists, not old school. It means everything. You know, these are legendary icons, you know, of. Of hip hop, especially in down south Atlanta. So to have them inducted, it's really meaningful. For sure, sure.

[A]

Yeah. Your list gets people talking.

[E]

Yes, it does.

[A]

Here's your top five clips. Nas.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Goat rapper.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Joey Badass, less known perhaps, around the country. Been on this very program. Jid Wale. Why is that? Why are these the top rappers of the year, man?

[E]

These are the guys that have been doing it the most, man. Clips Nas. I think it's like a renaissance of the veteran rappers this year, you know, very impactful. Wale came out of nowhere. Well, not of nowhere, but we knew he was coming with his album Everything is a Lot. Joey Badass has been doing his thing. He took on the whole coast and held it down. And he also put out his own album, Lonely at the Top. And Jid, man, he's like, if you need a feature, go holl at Jid.

[A]

So Nas is probably the most known name there. That's like a Jay Z or a Billy Joel to a lot of people. To be this many decades in the game. I was listening to the Button podcast.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Just like Drake, you know, you listen to the Button podcast and he said something that caught our ear about old school artists making music today that's consistent with their legacy. Working with DJ Premier, he said, quote, it's a special gift to not adhere to what the world around you is doing. It takes a certain genius and stubbornness. How does that reflect what some of these artists are doing decades in?

[E]

Yeah, I mean, these guys are staying true to themselves. You know, a guy like Nas has always gone by his own drum. You know, he's doing what he wants to do, when he wants to do it, and now 30 years later, it's his time to, you know, do that.

[A]

So.

[E]

So it's very on brand for Nas, for sure.

[A]

And we should note this. Here you are at their Levi's campaign. Yes. And we'll put this up. Now. This is what they call full disclosure in journalism. If you were involved, we also could call it a flex and an artist. We've both gotten to know, talk about and work with Levi's. We'll leave this up for a minute because it's beautiful. This is progress for culture, for coming out of the projects, coming out of communities that didn't get financial support. There was an artist who said, if someone would have told them that hov would sell clothing. Not in my lifetime. Wasn't in my right mind.

[E]

Facts.

[A]

What does it mean for artists like this to come up and be with Levi's or other big brands, be part of mainstream culture?

[E]

Yeah, it's a full circle moment. You know, these, you know, growing up, hip hop was, you know, a shoot. It wasn't something that seemed to be viable. And sure enough, it is, you know, to work with Nas on this campaign was a full circle moment for me, you know, growing up, having him on my wall, you know, listening to his music, buying it, cutting school for it. So it was a really dope moment.

[A]

And that's just because you put your work in and become part of hip hop.

[E]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We had the clips on the beat. These are these two brothers who made great music, and then we're not working together in that way. And this has been fascinating to watch them come back. Hip hop heads care about it. They're up for the Grammys. I don't know if everyone's going to notice. Here's some of what Pusha was telling us in our interview. Okay. In this particular album, in creating this album, Pharrell made one of the criteria that everything had to be sticky.

[B]

So if the hook is catchy, the verses need to be just as sticky.

[A]

Or catchy as the hook. That's a way of ensuring that, like, people are gonna, like, people are learning. Ace trumpets. People would never learn, you know, street records like this. Do you see as someone who's in this Internet culture, who's younger. They're older than you. Yeah. That the way we share music, the streaming and the viral part has now affected the way they. People are writing music. And is that a good or bad thing or. That's just how culture moves.

[E]

I think it's just how culture moves. You know, people are going to get the music whether, you know, whether it's streaming, word of mouth, you know, just different avenues. But, yeah, I just think it's just different, you know, these days. But at the same time, as long as the music is good, people are gonna get it?

[A]

I want to ask you about music videos. Cause it's so funny. We had video Kill the Radio star. We had a music video air. Then they seemed to die. Then they came back on YouTube. I mean, there's not a channel that matters, really, that's playing music videos all day anymore. But some of these videos are getting 100 million plus views. Here was Tyler, the creator, who is as much a visionary, a fashion icon, an actor now in that new project as well as he is a musician and rapper and. And he kind of plays with it in a way where you're like, oh, you got to see it too. Yeah, this. This is new, Tyler. When I get to snapping, like, do really got the juice. Like Tupac. I've been rocking by myself. I'm through. You jump off the porch. Me, I flew. Say I'm too sick. Hot choo choo, stop playing on me. How modern is he? How much did the visuals or the. That. That part matter?

[E]

Yeah, I think it's always going to matter. No matter what the era is. Tyler has always been a vis. He comes from the school of, like, the Busta Rhymes is in the Missy Elliott of the world. So the visual component only enhances the song, in my opinion. And I think that still holds true to today, no matter what.

[A]

And you've been around here, so, you know, in the fun segments, we got the lighters. You can take the classic beat lighter. We got the HOV DID edition. But I got a surprise. I got a surprise for you. What we got, we got new Zippo. Okay. This is the Zippo beat lighter. You see, it's a little different than the other lighters. End of the year, special guest.

[E]

Hip hop makes a great stocking stuff.

[C]

That's for you.

[A]

I love it. Thank you. That's how you've been upgraded. Oh, man.

[E]

Check out the beat, man.

[A]

Therehere we go. BrianB Miller. The lists are online. Thanks for coming through. We'll be right back.

[E]

Anytime.

[A]

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