Epstein Bombshells Rock Elites from White House to England

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Beat with Ari Melber

Episode: Epstein Bombshells Rock Elites from White House to England
Date: February 26, 2026
Host: Ari Melber
Key Guests: Michael Steele (MSNBC contributor, former RNC Chair), Emily Bazelon (legal writer, NYT Magazine), Nancy Erica Smith (civil rights attorney)

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Overview

This episode confronts explosive new revelations tied to the Jeffrey Epstein files, which, following a forced congressional release, are shaking institutions from the Trump White House, government agencies, Wall Street, and even the British royals. Ari Melber and guests dissect the political, legal, and human consequences—especially the mounting allegations implicating Donald Trump and a suspected ongoing cover-up by his administration and DOJ. The show also delves into bipartisan political fallout, survivor advocacy, legal standards, and the broader implications for American democracy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Broken Epstein Promise & the State of the Union

• [00:50–04:40]
  • Melber highlights Trump’s campaign promise to release the Epstein files, noting his complete reversal and subsequent cover-up:

    “Trump is hiding the files... angering MAGA supporters and Epstein victims alike.”

  • Survivors and their advocates were visibly present at the State of the Union, yet Trump failed to acknowledge them or the bipartisan Epstein Files Transparency Act recently passed by Congress.

2. New Epstein Fallout: Powerful Careers Collapsing

• [05:40–08:00]
  • Breaking resignations and legal consequences:
    • Former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers resigns from Harvard.
    • Les Wexner (Victoria’s Secret CEO) testifies in Congress.
    • Howard Lutnick (Commerce Secretary) and Kathy Rummler (Goldman Sachs chief legal officer) face inquiries or resign.
    • Hollywood, academia, and major finance figures are also implicated.
    • Prince Andrew arrested—“the first senior royal in modern history to be arrested”—and facing life imprisonment ([07:12]).
  • Widespread accountability, contrasting the lack thereof in Trump’s circle.

3. Political and Legal Repercussions

• [08:00–11:30]
  • Bi-partisan outrage: The transparency act was a rare moment of Congressional unity, yet the administration deflects or delays.
  • Michael Steele: “He campaigned on releasing the files then... furiously fought against the thing he claimed to support. And then Congress made him do it anyway.” ([10:21])

4. The Missing Files, DOJ Cover-up & Legal Questions

• [11:30–17:14]
  • Key Allegations:
    • DOJ withholds material possibly linking Trump to “allegations concerning a 13 or 14 year old child” ([11:30], Melber).
    • Nearly 100 of 300 FBI witness interviews missing; at least three connected directly to Trump ([12:01], Steele).
    • Trump’s former defense attorney installed at DOJ allegedly interfered with release.
    • DOJ excuses (“untrue or sensationalist claims,” “duplicates,” “ongoing investigations”) widely dismissed by legal experts.
  • Nancy Erica Smith: “There is a cover up going on. And the scary thing is that the DOJ is involved in it… the only people lacking accountability as the dominoes are falling all around the world are the Trump regime.”

5. Legal Experts’ Analysis: What Happens Next?

• [17:14–22:35]
  • Civil litigation and possible impeachment:
    • Smith: “The Dems should be in court tomorrow... this is a violation of the law. This is not even just a court ordered discovery ruling. This is a law passed by Congress...” ([18:23])
  • Congressional investigation launched; concealment could meet impeachment standards.
  • Melber credits survivors’ advocacy:

    “Continued noncompliance perpetuates the same secrecy that allowed these crimes to continue unchecked for years.” ([20:15])

  • Emily Bazelon: “This story is now... it’s not going to go away.” ([21:49])

6. Structural Obstacles to a Complete Cover-up

• [22:35–23:50]
  • Multiple legal, procedural, and archival redundancies make it hard to disappear all evidence, even for a president.
  • Unanswered questions: “Why is Trump so opposed to having these files released? … And until we know … all of those questions are going to keep swirling.” ([23:25], Melber)

7. Public Reaction & Political Ramifications

• [25:32–37:46]
  • Trump breaks State of the Union record for speech length, avoids Epstein topic entirely.
  • Survivor soundbite:

    “We want accountability and we want the files released. There were opportunities and they weren’t taken. And it is noted—our children deserve a world where powerful people cannot harm others without consequence.” ([26:17–26:37])

  • Social media and public “first reaction” montages highlight popular frustration with the cover-up.
  • Michael Steele and Nancy Erica Smith analyze the likely political fallout, especially for Republican midterms:
    • “He will not address the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein because he can't afford to get in the way of that moment, because that would then expose him.” ([29:00], Smith)

8. Trump’s Populist Erosion: Popularity Crisis

• [30:50–37:46]
  • Trump is now “the least popular second term president ever.”
  • Smith draws parallels between Trump’s speech style and autocrats’—long, justification-heavy, disconnected from reality.
  • Republican base enthusiasm is low; Democrats have the momentum but need to offer more than just “not Trump.”

9. Press Freedom Threats & Judicial Pushback

• [38:00–41:08]
  • Trump’s DOJ loses a bid to search a journalist’s devices:

    “The judge says the court, not the government, will review the devices... they don’t even trust the doj.” ([39:40], Melber)

  • Discussion of First Amendment protections and the administration’s attempts to intimidate or criminalize reporters.
  • Don Lemon, in his own words:

    “This isn't just about me. This is about all journalists, especially here in the United States... The freedom of the press, the bedrock of our democracy.” ([40:04])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s reversal:

  “This is, if you look at the actual facts, a total reversal. And he didn't release the files.” — Ari Melber ([01:41])

• On the cover-up:

  “There is a cover up going on. And the scary thing is that the DOJ is involved in it.” — Nancy Erica Smith ([16:00])

• On survivor advocacy:

  “The survivors have been so brave and so consistent... continued noncompliance perpetuates the same secrecy that allowed these crimes to continue unchecked for years.” — Ari Melber ([20:15])

• On public trust:

  “One of the core reasons officials can be impeached is for misconduct pursuant to their public duties that they are abusing the public trust.” — Michael Steele ([20:59])

• On legal accountability:

  “If it were proven that he was knowingly trying to break this law for Donald Trump or any person's benefit... A Congress might view that as impeachable.” — Michael Steele ([18:51])

• On the stakes:

  “You would think that it would be even more important for transparency for the president of the United States.” — Ari Melber ([20:15])

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Timestamps — Segment Guide

• [00:50] Main story opening: Trump implicated by newly released Epstein files
• [05:40] Wave of resignations, legal fallout, and Prince Andrew’s arrest
• [09:54] Survivors and the bipartisan Transparency Act
• [11:30] DOJ cover-up: withheld files, missing witness interviews, Trump’s attorney at DOJ
• [13:33] Legal analysis (Emily Bazelon, Nancy Erica Smith) on missing files & law violations
• [17:14] Calls for court action and impeachment consequences
• [20:15] Survivor voices and accountability
• [27:23] Second-day reactions to State of the Union, Trump’s avoidance of Epstein issue
• [30:03] Social media reactions: public frustration with cover-up
• [35:17] Political energy and the midterm outlook: Democrats vs. divided Republicans
• [39:40] Judicial pushback against DOJ attempts to intimidate the press
• [40:04] Don Lemon’s statement on press freedom

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Tone and Language

The conversation is direct, urgent, legalistic, and adversarial—emphasizing facts, scrutiny of official conduct, and the persistent demands for justice from survivors and reporters alike. The hosts and guests blend sober legal analysis with pointed political critique, interwoven with survivor and public voices determined to hold the powerful to account.

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Final Assessment

Ari Melber and guests deliver a forceful, evidence-driven indictment of ongoing efforts to suppress accountability in the Epstein case, with Trump’s evasions and DOJ’s suspected collusion squarely in the crosshairs. The bipartisan political stakes, international reverberations, and rising tide of survivor advocacy ensure that this story, as Melber puts it, “is not going away.”

Essential listening for anyone tracking the intersection of sexual abuse scandals, political legacy, and rule of law in the US and beyond.

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Transcript

[Ari Melber]

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[Ari Melber]

Download Today.

[Michael Steele]

Welcome to the Beat. I'm Ari Melber. Smiles for Ally but we turn to a more serious story right now because the top story is the news that Donald Trump is accused in the Epstein files and that his government is hiding the very Epstein files about it. NPR reporting that bombshell heading into the State of the Union where President Trump faced the long shadow of Jeffrey Epstein. Indeed, it was one of these split screen moments, depending on how you took in the State of the Union, because as I'm showing you right here in these photos, about a dozen Epstein survivors attended and others showed their support for the survivors and transparency in various ways, including visible stickers and other insignia. Trumpets didn't even acknowledge them. And he didn't address what his administration is doing on this front or the big vote. Trump is hiding the files. That's according to credible independent reporting. Trump is hiding the files according to lawmakers in both parties who have actually gone in to review them, the ones that they did release. And while politicos, people who follow this and say, okay, but isn't it obvious that Donald Trump would duck the issue in his speech because it's a weakness, even if it was the longest State of the Union ever? So he had time to hit all kinds of topics. But politically, people might say, why bring up your own weakness in the speech? But think about this tonight, his refusal to address the Epstein topic is still a total reversal from his recent campaign where Donald Trump ran on Epstein justice and transparency. He told interested MAGA podcasters More than once he would release the files, get to the bottom of this. I know that some think it is cool to sound unexcited or un kind of surprised and cynically just down with everything that's happening these days. But this is, if you look at the actual facts, a total reversal. And he didn't release the files. As he told those podcasters, he spent last year fighting it. Then he lost in Congress, which forced him to release millions under the new law. And yet he still hiding the ones that implicate him, according to multiple reports. So Trump has dragged out this issue. He has actually made it last, angering MAGA supporters and Epstein victims alike. At this rate, Donald Trump's approach could ensure the Epstein issue haunts him through the rest of this year, into the midterms, or maybe the rest of this last Trump term. So on substance, that's a betrayal of his promises and on the politics. And it is, at a minimum, odd, noticeably odd, and hurts his Republican Party. Unless you reason that maybe full transparency would hurt Trump even more. Remember, it's not so long ago that Trump was publicly and angrily denying even sending Epstein a birthday greeting. However, quote, bawdy or illicit, it's a card. He sued Fox News sister outlet the Journal for even reporting that. And then I want to remind you what came after that. That might have just gone away. But then we got the birthday greeting here from an earlier file release via Congress that would corroborate the story. Trump has not dropped the lawsuit, which looks likely to lose Trump likely to lose it given the evidence you see on your screen. And Trump saying that thing that exists that came directly from the Epstein estate didn't happen and doesn't exist. It was also pretty big news when Trump's name first surfaced in some files. But those initial reports deemed scandalous at the time are dwarfed by the new reports this week of a possibly illegal DOJ cover up of these FBI interviews with an Epstein linked Trump accuser in these files. It's really something. And every time there's been more evidence, more files and more information, it's gotten worse for Trump. But not just Trump. We follow this story and obviously something wrapped up with the President of the United States and what looks like an ongoing cover up by his Justice Department is a big deal, you would start there. You often cover these stories by starting at the top. But if you've watched our coverage, we continue to journalistically report on this wherever it leads. And it has hit many other individuals. You could pull together just the action of the last few weeks and it's a lot powerful people in multiple countries linked to both parties in America losing jobs, some losing their whole companies facing legal probes, arrests in England. We keep updating this list and it's just one way to see part of it in one picture. Right now I'm going to show you another way to document this. Here is some of the news and the bombshells of just the past few weeks reported by this and other news outlets. In under two minutes,

[Ari Melber]

we actually have some breaking news related to Jeffrey Epstein. Former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers is resigning his academic and faculty appointments at Harvard. The latest chapter in an extended fall from grace for the renowned economist over his extensive ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Billionaire former Victoria's Secret CEO Les Wexner testified today in the House's investigation into Jeff. Jeffrey Epstein. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick was grilled by senators on Capitol Hill today over his appearance in recently released Epstein files. Fallout from the Jeffrey Epstein files has now reached one of the largest investment banks in the world, Goldman Sachs. The bank's chief legal officer, Kathy Rummler now says she is resigning. New Epstein fallout.

[Michael Steele]

Hollywood heavyweight Casey Wasserman is putting his

[Ari Melber]

namesake talent agency up for sale. Celebrity doctor PETA Attia has resigned as a contributor at CBS News. Documents show he exchanged messages with Epstein even after Epstein's 2008 conviction. The fallout from the revelations in the Epstein files has now led to a 1 in 400 year event. Start with breaking news about Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. The BBC understands that he has been arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public

[Nancy Erica Smith]

office regarding those links with the convicted

[Michael Steele]

pedophile, the late pedophile Jeffrey Epstein.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

The biggest story in the world right now, that is the arrest of Andrew

[Michael Steele]

Mountbatten Windsor Lex Prince Andrew.

[Ari Melber]

Searches are currently ongoing at Royal Lodge. There's a maximum sentence of life imprisonment for Andrew, the first senior royal in modern history to be arrested. In the past few days, revelations from the release of the Epstein files have nearly brought down a prime minister, implicated royals and launched investigators around the world into action.

[Michael Steele]

All those developments driven by the Epstein files that Congress forced the DOJ to release. And the pressure continues. A Nobel Prize winning scientist out from atop. Columbia Institute Bill Gates apologizing for his ties to Epstein while reiterating he never visited the island or joined any wrongdoing of former governor Democrat Bob Kerry out from an energy company board. And while Trump's secrecy may be all about Trump, former Governor Kerry is not the only Democrat facing heat for an Epstein link. The new files have ousted a top official for Democratic presidents, as mentioned, ex Treasury Secretary Larry Summers. He had tried to already step back from the university he once ran, Harvard. But new today, the former boss is out, pushed to resign his teaching post that he had tried to salvage. Summers losing a role that was the capstone of his career. Just as Democratic lawyer Kathy Rumler was recently ousted from the elite bank Goldman Sachs mentioned in that montage we just showed you. Those are two people at the top of the Democratic Party punished for their Epstein ties, while Donald Trump and his Commerce secretary, who lied and was caught visiting Epstein island by the files, are resisting calls for accountability for them. But they have their own Epstein exposure. And if this were the end of the story, might look like maybe Donald Trump outran this scandal, too. But for many, including the legal process in the UK and elsewhere, this is the beginning. Those pieces of information and arrests and other accountability I just showed you are all in just these first weeks since the new files came out. Now, few people thought Republicans would join the effort to make Trump release the Epstein files that led to all this heat. If you go back, say, a year when Trump was riding high and fresh off his election, that's just about a year ago. Maybe by this time next year, the pressure could build further. One survivor pressing the contradiction of President Trump avoiding any mention at the State of the Union of one of the most bipartisan, sweeping actions Congress has actually taken in this past year.

[Ari Melber]

All of the survivors have been advocating for months. We did help get an act of Congress, a bipartisan vote on the Epstein files Transparency Act. I mean, that was an accomplishment that every American could celebrate, right? That that was never brought up as part of this State of the Union. You know, there, there were opportunities and they weren't taken. And it is noted

[Michael Steele]

Trump campaigned on releasing the files then he famously, loudly, furiously fought against the thing he claimed to support. And then Congress made him do it anyway, and he released the files. And there was a day or two where he pretended to say he was for that in a very transparent political effort to spin the loss didn't really work. I think everyone knows what happened there, and the proof is in the State of the Union because had he thought that he could continue spinning that, or if he genuinely thought this was a good thing he supported, he might mention it. It was the most bipartisan legal action the Congress took under this administration. It just happened to be against the Trump administration. He's hiding the files. Only he can explain why. And he's hiding the fact that they released some of the files because apparently he's not proud of that. This story is not going away, not for some of the Democrats I mentioned there who worked with President Clinton and others, and clearly not for the current president of the United States. Emily Bazelon and Nancy Erica Smith are here when we're back in 90 seconds.

[Ari Melber]

The Justice Department withheld dozens of pages of material that appear to relate to allegations against Donald Trump himself. Allegations concerning a 13 or 14 year old child.

[Michael Steele]

There are documents in possession of the Justice Department that he controls involving allegations of him abusing a minor child. And he's going to step up to a microphone.

[Ari Melber]

So, yeah, we've never seen this before.

[Michael Steele]

The new Epstein stories about Donald Trump and the DOJ cover up, casting that shadow right up until Donald Trump, as our colleague Lawrence Said, stepped up to address the country. Nearly 100 of the 300 FBI witness interviews appear to be missing. That's per CNN, NPR and Ms. NOW's reporting indicate three of those files involve these accusations against Trump, who has denied wrongdoing in connection with Epstein, including regarding these, what are still unreleased potential allegations. Donald Trump's former criminal defense attorney was installed at doj and he was, we're now learning, telling staff to flag certain documents that involved witness interviews. The same type of material that is now apparently missing. Not only that, he was doing it long after the legal deadline to release all the files. Which raises questions about what is at least an unusual, tardy effort to review and maybe hide certain files which are now missing. House Democrats opening a probe into all of this. We're joined by Emily Bazelon, legal writer with the New York Times Magazine, and Nancy Erica Smith, civil rights attorney who has represented victims of sexual assault. Welcome to both of you. Emily. It really has built up over time and I showed in our lead how we went from Donald Trump being upset at just a vague reference. He's in the files. Elon Musk famously posted that. And unlike other things Elon Musk posts, it turned out to be true. But that was just a mention, Right. Then it was the birthday card. He sued over it. No, he wrote the birthday card. Now it's missing witness interviews. What do you see here on the facts?

[Ari Melber]

I mean, I have so many questions. Who is this woman? What did she say exactly? Did the FBI try to corroborate her accusations? What happened? Why did this trail apparently grow cold? And then separately from that, from her credibility, why are these files missing? Right, because it's possible that none of this adds up. But there's a lot of material being released that is just a swirl of accusations. That the government did not necessarily corroborate, that certainly did not previously lead to indictments. So the normal standard for releasing this kind of material, which normally wouldn't see the light of day, we're already way past that. Congress said we're releasing this, and there is no exception in. In the Transparency act that would allow these materials to be hidden for any kind of political reason. Right. They're supposed to be these narrow exceptions. And the Justice Department has not explained why these particular files are missing yet.

[Michael Steele]

And there's no uniformity. Lawyers look at a situation like this and say, if you were really concerned that things that were totally unverified or had already been debunked shouldn't just go out into the world about XYZ person, then you'd have a standard for xyz. Well, prominent people, Marilyn Monroe and Janis Joplin, strangely, on the DOJ list out of incompetence. But other prominent people have faced completely unsourced allegations. So they don't seem to have a standard that says, hey, we had to draw a line somewhere. It appears with Mr. Blanchard's involvement that the line may have been illegally protecting President Trump.

[Ari Melber]

Right. And that would be a really serious violation of this law. Right. Because the law says that you can make an exception to protect victims. And then largely the rest of the exception is supposed to be an ongoing federal investigation. Well, presumably there is not an ongoing federal investigation of President Trump. That is very hard to imagine from this Justice Department if there is.

[Michael Steele]

And Pam Bondi said all Epstein probes were over.

[Ari Melber]

Exactly. So if that door is shut, then what is going on here?

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Yeah.

[Michael Steele]

Nancy, your thoughts on all of this tonight?

[Ari Melber]

Well, witness statements to the FBI are the most significant records in these files. Lying to the FBI is a crime. You know, Ask more Martha Stewart. So nothing could be more important to the Transparency act than witness statements to the FBI. Now, the excuse that the DOJ gave two excuses. One was that some documents contain untrue or sensationalist claims against the President. Well, that's clearly not an exception. The other exceptions they claim were we only took out duplicates. Some documents were privileged, and some relate to ongoing investigations. As Emily noted, the DOJ has already told us that there are no ongoing investigations. They said they were unfounded. Even the claims were unfounded, even without conducting investigations. But the privilege claim is really specious. It's not credible at all. What kind of privilege is there for FBI statements by witnesses? There is no privilege. And these documents were turned over to Maxwell, so they can't Even claim that there was a privilege. If there was, they would waived the privilege by giving these documents to Maxwell. So clearly there is a cover up going on. And the scary thing is that the DOJ is involved in it. And it seems like the only people lacking accountability as the dominoes are falling all around the world are the Trump regime. There's no accountability and the COVID up is outrageous.

[Michael Steele]

Right. Total contrast to other countries as you mentioned. I'm curious how you look at this as a lawyer, Nancy, about the worst case cynical take that nothing will ever happen has been proven false. We got the law passed. We got a lot of material out there. It's not only the United States that matters or only Donald Trump that matters. If you pull back at justice for victims, we have advocates for victims who are saying, however late, the release of some of these files leading to a process in the UK they say is a step forward. So on the one hand, progress. On the other hand, Nancy, huge allegations of COVID up from credible people, including Republican Tom Massie. And the NPR reporting goes in and quotes the missing numbers. In civil law we sometimes call Bates numbers or tracking numbers but for people's knowledge there's a lot of documentation. So they found that, oh, you hid this, but we can see 60 missing file numbers. As someone who's litigated, how do you view that? Because most people don't follow it in this arcania or detail that the way the system works, it is actually hard to have a full blown cover up, to disappear everything.

[Ari Melber]

It really is. And I think that the Dems should be in court tomorrow asking a federal judge to have all of these documents released and to sanction the attorneys, including Todd Blanche who have participated in a violation of law. This is a violation of the law. This is not even just a court ordered discovery ruling. This is a law passed by Congress as you pointed out. So they're absolutely in violation of the

[Michael Steele]

law regardless of sanction. You can go. And they could go farther than that. We don't know. We are still reporting on what Mr. Blanche and others were doing. But if it were proven that he was knowingly trying to break this law for Donald Trump or any person's benefit, what if it's some other billionaire benefactor? If he were knowingly doing that, as the standard deputy Attorney General, a Congress might view that as impeachable.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, it certainly. And they said it. They said the doj. One of the DOJ statements is we withheld documents that contain untrue or sensationalist claims against the President in a court That I would go into, I think a judge would say that's an admission that you're violating the law because that is not an exception in the law, that it's going to hurt the president.

[Michael Steele]

Yeah. And I'll just jump in again and I'll let you finish. But people who want transparency aren't providing exceptions, certainly not for powerful men, if you want to call it that. But they're not doing exceptions anymore. There's been years of secrecy. So for people who say they want transparency, there are those who said, oh, the photo of former President Clinton doesn't prove misconduct. And lawyers would say that photo alone does not. But you don't hold it back just because he was president. Transparency is transparency, including for the powerful, not an exception for, oh, I don't know, your current or former president, whatever party.

[Ari Melber]

You would think that it would be even more important for transparency for the president of the United States. But I really credit the survivors here. The survivors have been so brave and so consistent and one of them said to a federal court yesterday that continued noncompliance perpetuates the same secrecy that allowed these crimes to continue unchecked for years. And their pain is just continuing. And they're so brave and so strong to keep fighting. I really credit them a lot and I hope the courts start to intervene and impeachment definitely should be on the table if this cover up continues the way it seems to be leading.

[Michael Steele]

Right. Because, Emily, one of the core reasons officials can be impeached is for misconduct pursuant to their public duties that they are abusing the public trust. So if you're running the DOJ and he's running point on this, and you are failing to investigate or faithfully pursue the leads in sex crimes and pedophilia and sex trafficking, which are some of the most heinous and punished crimes in the federal code, and doing it for a political reason, I mean, that would be, again, they'd have to investigate it, but that would be the grounds for it. But broadening out a bit as we're here coming off a State of the Union where this dogged the president, as I mentioned, you can't claim you're for this and then, oh, you didn't mention it all in your big speech. Obviously you're not proud of this. How big is this story at this point? You've covered a lot of these type of legal political stories. How big is it?

[Ari Melber]

I mean, it's been simmering for a long time. It blows up in a big way periodically, I think to an extent that a year ago might seem surprising, but there's real bipartisan energy behind it and all these remaining unanswered questions. Right. It also, you know, we were talking about the serial numbers and the idea that you could have documents that are hidden, but there's still some record. There's an inventory of them. But and that part doesn't necessarily get taken out of the record. That kind of makes sense when you're dealing with millions and millions of pages of documents the way they are. So that is just, you know, intriguing in itself. And I think the main thing here is that this story is now it's, it's not going to go away.

[Michael Steele]

Well, and if you, if you go on the Internet, you've been on the Internet, occasionally there are folks posting and saying things like, oh, I think the conspiracy goes all the way back to the beginning and the top. And I understand that line of reasoning, but that's not how federal documents work. When you have multiple civil and federal cases and different document centers. And so in the same way that federalism is clunky and annoying, but then sometimes you're like, oh, 50 states, it's harder to steal an election.

[Ari Melber]

Redundant.

[Michael Steele]

Yeah. It's a good thing. This part of the law, which I think people have learned about, we've all been going to law school because Trump has created a lot of legal challenges as a country. But that part of it means that there isn't one person inside the government, even the attorney general, who can go in and start over and renumber everything.

[Ari Melber]

Exactly. There are some things that might be just too hard to hide. And look, we've been wondering for a long time, why is Trump so opposed to having these files released? Why not claim victory for this law? Why not take a victory lap last night? And until we know the answer to why these files were seemingly withheld, what were they? Who is this person who made these allegations? All of those questions are going to keep swirling.

[Michael Steele]

Yeah. Emily and Nancy, thanks to both of you. Coming up, we're going to look at JD Vance grilled on FOX News.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Let's get to the issue that might clip this administration, and that's the economy.

[Michael Steele]

It seems like you're pushing a car uphill.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Do you have enough Runway to get this economy where it needs to be before November?

[Michael Steele]

Those are the questions. We'll look into that. And the Trump FDOJ is trying to search, harass and even jail reporters. They're facing another setback on that today. It's important. We'll get into it. But up next, Michael Steele he's back in the building. He stayed up late. He got up early. We're going to talk. Epstein State of the Union why? He doesn't believe in the response speech, but he sees problems ahead in the midterms for the GOP party he once led. That's next why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster? I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end. This is very strange Angie the one you trust Define the ones you trust Find pros for all your home [e-mail]

[Ari Melber]

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[Michael Steele]

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[Ari Melber]

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[Michael Steele]

I'm in.

[Ari Melber]

Wait maybe what time again?

[Michael Steele]

While they figure that out, I rev up Champa Casino play on your browser. No downloads necessary. No need to negotiate. Why wait on them when you can spin for yourself? Play [e-mail] let's jumba no purchase necessary VGW Group Voidware prohibited by law CTNC's 21/ sponsored by Jumba Casino the President gave a very long speech last night, if you're counting, one of the longest ever, but never got around to addressing the Epstein issue. While 53% of Americans do believe he's covering up the crimes, many speaking out,

[Ari Melber]

the days of powerful men operating with impunity are officially over. We're not going to be quiet and we're here because we want accountability and we want the files released. There were opportunities and they weren't taken. And it is noted our children deserve

[Michael Steele]

a world where powerful people cannot harm others without consequence.

[Ari Melber]

Mr. President, today we are saying we will not move on and the world is not moving on. Every day we're witnessing the Untouchables collapse before our eyes.

[Michael Steele]

One of the survivors there, as you can see, was speaking with our next guest. Michael Seale hosts the Weeknight on Ms. Now he once ran the RNC and we tag teamed as we did with so many of Our colleagues watching that thing together and reacting to it together. And as you know, you take it in, you have your first reaction. Now we get to our second reaction. It's settled in. 22 hours later, your thoughts as it's all been absorbed.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Look, the whole thing leading in, Donald Trump bragged it was going to be long because it was intentional for him to go long and to set a record or whatever. Okay? So he's got a play in his head. That is not the narrative that his chief of staff or his political shop or his policy shop wanted the president to get through. It really wasn't until the end, if you go back and look at the very end of that speech, that Donald Trump actually sounded like a president when he was talking about sort of thinking about the context of our 250th birthday coming up this year and what that meant, the things that we had done as a nation, starting as 13 colonies

[Michael Steele]

and going forward and the lifespan, generation to generation. Yeah, somebody wrote that.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Somebody wrote that. And he actually read it. Yeah, and he actually read it because at the end, he was tired.

[Michael Steele]

And by the way, there was a one beautiful moment when he recognized the veteran who'd lived to 100.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

That's it.

[Michael Steele]

And I was watching it thinking, I swear, I'm being honest, I was watching it thinking, well, this is a proper moment. And I watched the room stand for him. And I was thinking, I swear, I was thinking, all right, so he's not getting in the way of this. If you live till 100 and you fight off and you almost die for your country, he's not getting away with this. I was really thinking that.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

And then he got into what.

[Michael Steele]

And then right after he goes, I should give myself a Congressional Medal, but that's not allowed. And I thought, wow, you really. It was like from the soul. You couldn't just let that man's moment. He had to joke about giving himself an award.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Exactly. And that is why, in a real sense, Ari, he will not address the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein because he can't afford to get in the way of that moment, because that would then expose him. What do you say? How do you make it about you? His megalomania would trigger some response that would make this a deeper rabbit hole for him than the one he's already in. So you have those storylines that evolved 24, 22 hours ago. What you've seen since then is a settling in around the country, that the women who have been impacted by Jeffrey Epstein, the economies of families and communities around the country, the Engagement with a military ICE that is antithetical to our governance structure. All of those things still remain very palatable for the American people 22 hours after that speech. Yeah, there's nothing he can do about that.

[Michael Steele]

And let me show you to this point on TikTok where people just sort of on their phone give their first reaction as we did ours last night. Here's what's people noticing the Epstein hole, if you will. That State of the Union address was a hot mess, y'. All. We all expected half truths, full lies. There was zero mention of the Epstein files because of course not. None of us expected him to bring up the Epstein files. Donald Trump doesn't want to talk about that topic.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

That's it. He doesn't want to talk about this topic. And there's no way he's going to talk about this topic because he's so much a part of the conversation and he can't afford to be, which is why he's got his FBI doing everything they can to keep the documents out of the hands of the people who need to see it. And that's the American people.

[Michael Steele]

There's almost a bizarre symmetry to the point you're raising that he makes everything about himself when it's not. Here's something that does involve him. He had a history with this man and his DOJ is in charge of whatever you want to call it and that he can't talk about. I want to also turn to the popularity problem because people get ignored or kind of over all of this and you forget that we actually have metrics to compare him to other presidents. He's the least popular second term president ever. I want to get you on that. Michael stays and we're back after this. John Stewart used to joke that reality has a well known liberal bias, meaning he felt like facts were often just treated as something that only a certain group of people concern themselves with. Well, that's not the case today on Fox News where they got a big JD Vance interview coming out of the State of the Union. But the economic problems which are in our reality still came up.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Let's get to the issue that might clip this administration and that's the economy.

[Michael Steele]

It seems like you're pushing a car

[Nancy Erica Smith]

uphill and you've got nine months to turn it around. You know, Democrats are juice. They are ready to vote tomorrow. Do you have enough Runway to get this economy where it needs to be before November?

[Michael Steele]

Well, Bill, in some ways we are pushing a car uphill. There goes that car. As for the uphill part well, the public has kind of said enough. There is strong disapproval against Trump's economy, which means those numbers you're looking at statistically include a lot of folks who have voted for Trump at least in one prior election. But they know what's up. The State of the Union speech has been seen as a chance to dismiss the affordability crisis. As one headline put it, Trump didn't offer housing or health care ideas, the nonpartisan political outlet notes. And the other problem is the, quote, lack of restraint. That's putting it mildly. Trump's speech is the longest on record. His speech last year was the second longest. He is competing with himself when it comes to testing the public's patience. Now, Bill Clinton did give long speeches, although not 108 minutes. You can look to the median length if you go before the MAGA era, and it was a comfortable hour, not dragging almost into two. This speaks to a wider shift. Trump is Trump, people say, but Trump second term is pretty different from where we started. Michael Steele is here. Your thoughts on that point and what could even be likened to late stage autocrat speech length.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Well, what do they do? What does the Fidel Castros and the Orbans do? They give these lengthy diatribes. And the reason is they're now trying to convince and reconvince their population about what they're doing, because at that point, or at this point, the population knows that, you know, the game is over. We know what you are, we know what you're doing. We know what we can and cannot do. We know what we can and cannot access. Donald Trump is now in that same space where he's looking at a reality in which they are, you know, arresting five year olds, they are, you know, killing American citizens on the street. And he's got all these things, these narratives that are happening, and he's now trying to justify to us why that's okay, why that's good. And so he's gonna take more time to do that. It's almost the bad parent who just sits there and berates you over and over again to convince you that your behavior was bad. But it's actually their behavior which is the most disturbing in the moment. And so that's where we find ourselves with Trump as a society, as a community of Americans, looking at leader who has failed on all fronts, trying to convince us that there is no failure here, but success. That, you know, the fact that you're paying more for beef, as my friend Simone would like to remind people, is, is, is not real. But wait a minute. I'm looking at $3 a pound versus $1.59 a year ago. And so that's the reality that he's now every day going up against. And so he gets on that stage and is trying to convince us with a compliant, complicit and otherwise disengaged Republican Congress to convince us that, oh, no, 359 is always what it's been.

[Michael Steele]

And then you look to the midterms and the Fox host mentioned this. When you look at the termination of, oh, the enthusiasm gap, a lot more Democrats are excited to vote. I want to be clear, they're not 100% sold on what the Democratic Party is doing. If you ask about the brand, look under the hood. But if you talk about turning out, what do you see here?

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Well, you know, look, the energy is with the Democrats right now for a whole host of reasons, as well as it should be because they've been winning special elections, they've been winning midterm, mid midterm elections, if you will. So they've got that energy at every turn. If I'm a county, state or the national chairman of the Republican Party, I am concerned because I've got a base that is clearly not as enthusiastic. I've got candidates who have to carry very heavy bucket of cement. It's not water, baby, at this point, it is cement that the administration has put in there piece by piece through the various. As Politico noted, there are no policies, there are no storylines that they're telling us. So what are these candidates going to convince the voters about and what are they going to convince a voter to give them the vote for? And that's a hard case to make, particularly if you want to go to Congress after what we've seen over the last two years and especially this past year, it's a hard case to make for voters and convince them. And so Democrats have the energy. But again, Democrats need to note, I don't necessarily want to be the guy that you want to go out with simply because the other person wasn't available or you didn't like that person as much. I got to give you a reason to want to go to the dance with me. I got to give you a reason to want to hang out with me. And that's what Democrats and particularly candidates have been successful at at that level. Nationally, it's a different storyline and they've got to marry those two up because they're going to need that energy.

[Michael Steele]

Well, you're making the date analogy. Invite someone to a sold out play on Broadway in New York. And they say, wait, when did you get these tickets? How long was this?

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Where'd you get this?

[Michael Steele]

For somebody else. Yeah, right, right. Nobody wants to feel like that.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Right. No one wants to feel like that. And so Democrats, I think, can overcome that. They, if they, you know, if they are successful in getting out of their own way. But the reality of it is no one wants to feel that. But the way the other person is making you feel is worse.

[Michael Steele]

Well, we always love seeing you. I do want to get one official item out of the way. I don't want it to be awkward. What's that? But I want to make sure, you know, you were our first choice for this segment tonight. I feel, I feel this was not a backup.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

I feel so good. Because usually it's the muck.

[Michael Steele]

Michael Steele, always a pleasure. And I want to remind everyone, muppet or not, weeknight, 15 minutes from now. You can get Michael and the gang. Up next, First Amendment rights under threat. And yet Donald Trump losing the bid from Don Lemon to the Washington Post to harass reporters for reporting the truth. President Trump facing another defeat in efforts to undercut the First Amendment, something the founders protected precisely because they were worried about this kind of abuse. A federal judge has denied the DOJ's bid to search the phone and computers of a Washington Post journalist. The judge says the court, not the government, will review the devices and determine any material relevant to the investigation. In other words, if this reporter is linked to actual illegal conduct, not just reporting, the judge is saying they'll look at it, but they don't even trust the doj. And the First Amendment protects that kind of abuse. The judge stated the DOJ searching those devices would leave a government fox and charge the Washington Post's hen house. No way. This judge also rebuked the administration for basically the way that it has dissembled in this process, calling out the DOJ for basically trying to undercut or avoid a key 1980 law in the original application for this warrant, which safeguards journalists unless there's probable cause the reporter committed crimes. Again, reporting on the government's conduct, even talking to sources who might be committing crimes because they're leaking material illegally doesn't make the reporter illegal. If there were, of course, a true and real crime, and the judge found that, that's different. But we have the First Amendment for a reason. Or take veteran journalist Don Lemon, who is facing very thin, spurious charges that many experts think are not valid for the reporting he did on a protest in Minneapolis.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

This isn't Just about me.

[Michael Steele]

This is about all journalists, especially here in the United States. For more than 30 years, I've been a journalist and the power and protection of the First Amendment has been the underpinning of my work. The First Amendment, the freedom of the press, the bedrock of our democracy. Lemon speaking out there, fighting the case. Trump has threatened these freedoms with attacks and lawsuits against many outlets. In fact, in a very different example, earlier tonight, we mentioned the lawsuit on the left against the Journal owned by the Fox News empire of Rupert Murdoch, the Times, the BBC, the tech giants on the right, and then of course, the comics. Think about this. President Trump wants a Justice Department that's going to search and harass reporters for reporting, and then he wants to cancel or harass or minimize comics for telling jokes. Is this the America people want to live in? Judges increasingly ruling it's not the America allowed under our Constitution. I'll be right back.

[Ari Melber]

Lifelock, how can I help? The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't.

[Michael Steele]

One in four tax paying Americans in has paid the price of identity fraud.

[Ari Melber]

What do I do? My refund though.

[Michael Steele]

I'm freaking out.

[Ari Melber]

Don't worry, I can fix this.

[Michael Steele]

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[Ari Melber]

I'm so relieved. No problem. I'll be with you every step of the way.

[Michael Steele]

One in four was a fraud paying American. Not anymore. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com Specialoffer terms apply why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster? I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires. I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles home at after his untimely end.

[Ari Melber]

This is very strange.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

Angie, the one you trust to find

[Michael Steele]

the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail] Close your eyes.

[Ari Melber]

Focus. Listen to work getting done with Monday.com

[Michael Steele]

Relax as AI does the manual work while your teams are aligned on a single source of truth. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform. So flexible and intuitive it feels like it was built just for you.

[Ari Melber]

Notice you're limitless. Limitless.

[Michael Steele]

Now open your eyes. Go to Monday.com start for free.

[Ari Melber]

And finally breathe.

[Michael Steele]

You know, we try to follow the news and share it all with you live. But sometimes we have extra stuff that we share from our longer conversations with interesting people or what we're doing on our nightly podcast. Take a look at some of the voices we've heard

[Ari Melber]

being judgmental to me

[Michael Steele]

just means I have standards. Well, let's just go through it. They scream a brace for impact. This is a real Dr. Jane Goodall Barbie, a Barbie doll that encourages little girls to think that I can do that. Reaching the summit means trying harder every day. Peace and fulfillment. I feel like I'm in the foothills.

[Nancy Erica Smith]

You have done something positive with with the power that the summit has given

[Ari Melber]

you that I haven't got there yet. I hope

[Michael Steele]

those are longer conversations. You might have seen excerpts of them here along with our other guests, but if you go download our podcast every night we have a Beat podcast where you'll see not only some of the folks I just showed you in that clip, but our other friends and guests and Andrew and Melissa and Maya Wiley. And sometimes we post extra stuff there, and longer stuff, so be sure to check out the Beat with Ari Melder. You can go on Apple Podcasts or wherever you go on podcasts to download. You just go in, of course, to the podcast section on your iPhone. Or of course you can use a computer if that's how you get your info and search the Beat with Ari Melber podcast. When you subscribe. You will get our nightly downloads and the extras I mentioned. Thanks for spending time with us at vrbo.

[Ari Melber]

We understand that even the best of plans sometimes need a little support, so we plan for the plot twists. Every booking is automatically backed by our VRBO Care Guarantee, giving you confidence from the very start. Whenever you need help, it's ready before your stay, through the moments in between and after your trip. Because a great trip starts with peace of mind and maybe a good playlist. But we've got the peace of mind part covered.