← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Epstein Files Special Report
00:41:53
MS NOW’s Ari Melber reports on the DOJ’s final batch of Epstein files and what they reveal about government failures. Former federal prosecutor John Flannery joins the discussion.
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Welcome to the Beat. I'm Ari Melbourne. We begin tonight with a special report on a story Donald Trump has failed to disappear. The secrets of Jeffrey Epstein now exposed in those millions of new files which journalists and experts, all of us really are still reviewing since Friday's release. But these new files have enabled us to update our legal timeline which has reporting from the first 2005 Epstein probe into Epstein, his conspiracies, his bid to evade justice, and how the long arm of the law did finally catch up with him before his death in the custody of the Trump doj. So in our special report right now, this timeline which we've shown you once before with our msnow reporting is updated with the brand new revelations from the new files. Now before I go into this timeline, I'll just tell you right now what you will see tonight. One, how the Bush DOJ dropped the tougher possible case against Epstein. Two, how the Trump DOJ identified Epstein's potential co conspirators. We'll show you some of them tonight, but then didn't charge the vast majority of them. Three, how under both parties, the DoJ has clearly failed to follow those leads, which means the feds had paths to indict and stop this trafficking ring years ago, but they did not. Four, we'll show you how Trump's administration has top officials who falsely claimed that they had ended or limited their Epstein contact. And now they have been busted by their newly revealed emails in their own writing. That includes a Trump official who's still in the cabinet tonight. And five, we'll show you how the Trump administration lied about these files, fought their release, broke the law on releasing them and still faces questions about what they're hiding and why Donald Trump is so personally haunted by his own Epstein links, from their own social time together to his government's demonstrated failures in this case. So let's look at what we've learned. The Very first key Epstein probe began in Palm beach in 2005. That put public heat on Epstein in a new way. Trump's current commerce chief, Howard Lutnick says that back then is when he cut all ties with Epstein, his one time neighbor. So we'll return to that in a moment on this timeline. Now, others have asked why the DOJ didn't nail Epstein then. The brand new files actually show some prosecutors tried and they had so much evidence on him that in 2007, prosecutors internally said they had the goods, that they had enough material evidence testimony on Epstein for an actual sex trafficking case of not one or two, but actually a dozen teenage girls. And they wrote, and this is new that we've Learned this, a 56 page draft indictment. So back then, some inside government were ready to charge Epstein for that whole terrible alleged conspiracy. But here's what I want to show you tonight. And this is newly revealed that was the draft indictment, but it was discarded. The Bush DOJ never allowed it to be filed. And that was the big case. Instead, the top prosecutor later, a notorious name Trump official, Alex Acosta at the time, he let Epstein off the hook with that controversial secret deal and that meant just one year in prison for the lesser count of soliciting prostitution. Acosta and others have argued that this was basically the case they had, that these things are complicated. Well, it's taken all this time, but I can report for you tonight that now the new Epstein files release from Friday shows that's false, that there was a whole written draft indictment of the bigger case and they just discarded it. So what happened? Some prosecutors had that case written up, ready to go. We've now seen it. But their bosses, this later Trump ally Acosta, or perhaps bosses in Washington, discarded it. Now Epstein got out and he continued his activities. The difference at this point in time is the public was actually on notice of at least his conviction as a sex offender, even if it was, as I mentioned, lesser than the other potential case. And that gives us context, new in this timeline, how Trump official Lutnick was secretly emailing Epstein at that time about visiting his island. This was while Lutnick's family was on a trip seven years after he claimed to have cut ties. Or the mega donor. And recent Trump employee Elon Musk emailing about visiting Epstein's island, asking what day night will be the wildest party. Now that shows at a minimum, attempted proactive socializing, desiring to go to the island for what Musk called wild partying. And that's by Trump allies who have obviously claimed otherwise. Now, Musk has responded to say that he did not actually go to the island. Lutnick denying this again, although he has less credibility now that the emails are public. And one day after the planned visit that Lutnick emailed about knew from these files, an Epstein associate passed along an email to Lutnick that said, quote, nice to see you. The file suggests that for many, Epstein operated business as usual until 2018. This Miami Herald expose put heat on the DOJ. It had the goods again, which hadn't all been used. The DOJ had let Epstein off the hook before, but then he was indicted. Now on these tougher sex trafficking charges, the DOJ since then, I should mention, has only indicted one person related to what's been documented as this sprawling conspiracy. And so I'm going to get into this because we are learning new things. For the first time, the new Friday files show the DOJ was eyeing other suspects. It's a mob style chart and the feds made this of Epstein's inner circle. So let's take a look at this right now as part of our special report. I just can tell you this is a rare view inside a normally secret federal probe. You almost never see this type of thing before, during or after a case. And the federal laws protect that. What's different here, of course, is Congress changed the laws for this particular mess of Epstein and the secrecy. So we have questions stoked here about why the feds under first Trump and then the Biden DOJ did not apparently pursue and indict most of these men or the others who knew or partook in what the government also calls a broad sex trafficking ring. Which is it? A giant sex trafficking ring with someone at the center and other men involved in crimes knowing and otherwise or not. And if it's not, then what were the feds doing with their chart and their leads? I can tell you we have redactions here, some of which may be for potential victims or those that the government viewed as more coerced into being a part of these crimes rather than being the ringleader or the proactive criminal. And the Fed's tracking Epstein's lawyer, accountant, financial advisor, and a man later indicted in Europe for sex offenses who died in prison awaiting trial, as did Epstein in 2019. But there's a lot of questions here about these leads. Some of these individuals, I should mention, are still being subpoenaed by Democrats in Congress to try to get more information where apparently the DOJ stopped. Now, I mentioned the death in prison. The Trump DOJ stated that the videos that were key around where Epstein was in that cell, the videos were lost. So I'm going to go all the way back here for round two of our timeline. Then Trump Attorney General Barr was defending the fact that videos were missing. The DOJ did go after one co conspirator that now has become a bit of a household name, Axel, and she was convicted and sentenced here to 20 years. The public demands for transparency, the pressure on this case built over time. I think everybody knows that by now. And so Trump was eventually campaigning on declassification. We all lived through his Attorney General saying she had a client list on her desk. Then Attorney General Bondi announced, no client list, no more files, no more videos, no evidence of blackmail. This was where the Trump administration tried to stop all this. And this wasn't that long ago. They said there wouldn't be any other evidence to be disclosed. And that stoked outrage from victims, from experts from members of Congress, as well as many people who were in Trump's MAGA base who were promised very recently other things by Bondi and Trump himself. And Trump did something very unusual. He sent his loyal attorney now at the DOJ for this unusual interview with Maxwell, as I've reminded you, the only union other person charged for anything. And she was upgraded to a better prison facility. As for Musk, whose emails had not been exposed yet, well, he was claiming that Trump was in the files when they had their fallout. Again, the timeline is striking because we now know what Musk knew, apparently, but no one else did in public, which is that he was asking to go down to the island by email. Musk, who understands technology, knew or had reason to know he was in the files. As for Lutnick, well, remember, he claimed he wasn't involved during contact. That is undercut by the emails. And at this time, whether he realized the files were ever going to come out or not, he was working for an administration that now was backing secrecy. He then was talking while in office about Epstein being a blackmailer. That's what his M.O. was. You know, get a massage, get a massage. And what happened in that massage room, I assume was on video. This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever blackmailed people. That's how he had money. Not just a blackmailer, says Lutnick, but one of the greatest. That's like saying a greatest drug deal ever or greatest criminal conspirator ever. It means that Lutnick is saying this guy did this a lot, even though his fellow Cabinet official Pam Bondi was recently saying There was no blackmail and nothing else. And now the files suggest there was certainly a lot of people that there were leads for. So this is the tension inside the Trump administration with people that we're now learning were in the files, were emailing with Epstein. We're discussing potentially visiting him while they talk about his blackmail operation. Then we get to recent history. Trump, of course, losing the battle to stop the Epstein law. It passed overwhelmingly. It required the DOJ to release the files by the end of December. They started with basically under 1% in heavy redactions, we'll see here, and then over 40 days past due, and thus breaking the law. After those 13,000 files, you get this new batch of 3 million. And many of the files have incriminating material that we've highlighted here, which can make more sense in the broader timeline. DOJ says this is the final drop. Epstein's accusers, though, note that after all of this delay, some lying, these errors, Trump keeping officials in his cabinet who now have been caught lying about this and had some tie to Epstein while saying he's a blackmailer. After all of that, victims note that the DOJ still had redaction errors at a minimum, that they exposed some identities at the very same time that they seemed so intent to go to great lengths to delay, deny, defy or protect some people in the files.
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C
I don't think that there's a single survivor who was like, no, we shouldn't have done this. No, it needed to be done the right way. And it's just not. Everything was a power play. And now I'm feeling like this is a power play. Yes. My response to his comment is like the age old phrase, this isn't over until we say it's over. Meaning the 1200 survivors fight for our right to see all the files. They really failed all of the survivors on this. It feels kind of in a way like additional intimidation, which is something that I think we, we all felt during our association with Jeffrey Epstein.
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A
The original crimes not dealt with, sometimes covered up by the government, the government lying, and then finally following the law that it was forced to follow because it was so overwhelmingly passed over, any possible veto by the President who keeps trying to hide the Epstein files. So these are just some of the key points we've learned about some of the key players who are still in government exercising power now, as well as the way we got here. So I want to be clear about what we're learning because there have been all sorts of articles about what's failed or how people are getting away or whether there will be consequences and accountability, whether that's in the public sphere of civic life and business or even legally. We know more than ever now about the lengths that federal authorities from different administrations and powerful men and their well paid allies, lawyers and others were willing to go to bury these secrets. The obvious implication is it was not only to protect a controversial, then indicted and later dead sex trafficker, but that they were trying to protect either themselves, the people who may have been a party to these crimes, including that chart of leads I showed you that we now know the government has had for years or as well government cover ups which we've seen in many dimensions where because they failed to do the right thing or somebody overruled the right thing stopping that early case I showed you, you have powerful people in government and connected to their predecessors and successors who don't want to go back in and look at how these files show how the federal government has repeatedly failed victims and justice. These are millions of new files. Everyone is still going through and making sense of them. One thing I can tell you, when the truth starts outing, it's not going to stop. It's not just going to go away. We are staying on this story whether people in government like it or not. And I have a special guest right after this break.
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B
Well, my view is, first of all, your chronology gives the causality that everybody has to respect that when you see, for example, Bondi, oh, I've got em, they're all on my desk. And then I don't have them at all. And then she comes back again. You have the sense that her overseer, Trump and whomever else is telling her, ah, they won't notice. We can just deny it. And then they say, oh, we can't get away with that. And so this creeping cancer on their perfidy has caught up with them and now is undeniable. And we have a situation in which even with the legislation that passed that they dare not avoid, up to including Trump signing the bill themselves, that then they disregard it. So there are like three big errors here. One, they didn't start on time. The order said it had to be within not later than 30 days. And it certainly has been two and a half, whatever number of months, weeks. What's astonishing to me is that no one stood up and said this is wrong and went to court about it. The second thing is, of course, that they posted the survivors and concealed from us the bad guys. You know, no man is above the law except all the guys that are involved in this conspiracy. And so here we have the survivors whom we're specifically supposed to protect according to the legislation. And they're the one exposed why they talk about doxing under other categories. That's what this is about, to discourage these people and punish them should they have the nerve to come forward. And the indictment that you spoke about in Florida fit into that early category.
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A
Because talk about that, I'll only slow you down because we always report on what the folks involved say. We report on what subjects say. We can show the timeline. Again, that was very early on. And one of the defenses was, well, they didn't really have the whole case. That was the government defense. On the far left there, we see the draft sex, right, draft sex trafficking indictment discarded. This goes beyond reporting. And he said, he said, john, the new files show they had the case so detailed that it was written with multiple counts over 50 pages. What does that tell you as a prosecutor about. And there could be disagreements within an office, but about whether the line prosecutors, the agents developing this, apparently they thought they did have the case on him.
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B
Well, the U.S. attorney wanted it to be otherwise, for whatever reasons. We don't have to go into those. And I respect what you're saying. An indictment, even when it's filed, is just a charge. It has to be proven.
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Sure.
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B
But the thing that's interesting is that we have the indictment now. I do not believe that anybody has the 82 page memo prosecuting the case. In other words, explaining why this indictment makes sense. They don't want that out, I believe, you know, and if somebody has it, then let's talk about that. But I don't believe they have it. Yeah.
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And you're speaking again. I'm only slowing you down because I just want to underscore the point.
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Right.
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A
When they say, oh, Bush era doj. Well, you know, it was complicated. This was the deal we could get. We learned as of Friday. First time ever. No, actually, people in your office had a lot more. And they didn't just have it in their minds, because sometimes we see cases where a prosecutor has a grand idea, but they didn't really have it all here. It was not, as I mentioned, one or two alleged victims. It was a dozen victims, minors. I want to play Lutnik for you, and then I'll let you get to your other points, but I just want to get this in. There is a very serious standard in this country which we apply. We, unlike some people, try to apply fairly for all, which is we don't do guilt by association. The fact that somebody is mentioned does not mean they're automatically a part of the crime. That has to be researched and proven, obviously. But there is no constitutional right to serving in the Cabinet of the United States. There is no constitutional issue with whether there's accountability. About Donald Trump, who campaigned allegedly against Epstein's crimes, now keeping on people who are implicated and who publicly lied. Which raises the question, why did Mr. Lutnick lie? And by the way, there have been people who said, hey, they ended up at a dinner party in New York. They didn't talk to Epstein and they didn't lie about it. They gave the defense. And then people can assess that. I want to play again what we showed in the timeline. This is Lutnick, who's currently in the Cabinet. Take a listen. All right. And there's a massage table in the middle of the room. He like, gets like, weirdly close to me.
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C
Ooh.
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A
And he says, and the right kind of massage. My wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again. So I was never in the room with him socially for business or even philanthropy. That was the public claim this past year. The emails released Friday show him trying to arrange visit to the island. There's following emails that I read in our timeline that suggest people on the Epstein side suggesting it occurred. It's clearly more than he said. Musk meanwhile accusing others of being in the files when he's in the files. Given that you're a prosecutor, can you take us inside the mind of someone who not only has that exposure, but knows there's emails and then still is out there saying these things?
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B
Maybe he was trying to reassure his wife more than he was trying to reassure us. I mean, how many men would say, I don't go there because my wife doesn't want me to go there. It's only seven. Seven steps from my house and I didn't go back there. And then he slammed hard on the head because he has this arrog people have who are already breaking the law. They'll never catch me. I can deny it. Who's ever gonna know the truth? That's it. The guy is a liar. There's a deep, dark abyss within him without a soul. That's the key to all of these guys.
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A
Now, fact check, fact check. I don't have a readout on whether he or others do or do not have a soul. Way above my spiritual pay grade. John, I promised you. I'm running over on time with 30 seconds. You had a third point. What was that, sir?
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B
Okay, well, the third point is a really important one because it's about the fact that in the document, January 30, 2026, the Justice Department wrote a letter to the Senate and the House, and it said, yes, there are 6 million documents, but we only talk about 3 million because they're duplicates. The duplicates they claim are between the Southern District of New York And Florida, number one. And then they say there are 200,000 documents in this category. And in this category, they're blocking a large amount of them by privilege. What is the privilege? To withhold from us what that prosecutor discarded prosecution. That what she said that her boss nixed. And there have been.
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A
There.
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B
There was an investigation, an AG's investigation. That really kind of I thought, you know, just washed it over the thing. We should know what they claim as privilege because That's a smoking gun. What is in those 200,000 pages. That is something to know about.
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A
And also, and I'll just, I'll button that up with this point. A lot of these rules are written by the lawmakers. They write the laws. They made an exception to the general secrecy because of how bad this has gone. And now the public is getting more transparency. They can make and amend other rules. They can have a judge do private what they call in camera review of every redaction. They can create a special court if they want. The laws are written by these lawmakers. And as you say, if there's a gap, they can bear down on that. I do have to say in a season of great skepticism, there were people who thought none of this would come out or none of it would come out that would look askance at anyone in the administration. Clearly, some of the transparency is working. I'm over on time, John. We will be sure to call it. Okay, quick.
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B
Okay, quick. Here's the point. The statute does not say anything about privileges. Certainly not BS privileges either. That's all I have to say.
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A
Got it. John Flannery, thank you. Coming up tonight, we take a look at the tech billionaire meltdown and the Trump economy. You know, there is a lot of reporting that the reason the US Dollar is now weak, a word the White House doesn't want to hear, is because the market and foreign powers are pricing in what they call Donald Trump's erratic behavior. While a top official grilled.
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C
President Trump said, quote, we have the groceries going down. Did grocery Prices drop in 2025?
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A
Numerous prices have.
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C
Did grocery prices drop in 2020?
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D
Numerous grocery prices have gone down.
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C
I'm sorry, I don't know if you can't hear me.
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Los Cribes, Tu al Prendemas and mcdonaldspunto.
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Com Yagonal Hacer CIDP can make your daily routine feel not so routine. The good news? With a self injection for chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, you have the option to treat at home. Discover more@cidpselfinjection.com and talk to your doctor. That's CID brought to you by Argenics. Many see a journalism crisis this week, and it's coming from a man who said he would save journalism, or at least the Washington Post, one of the pillars of American political journalism. Because its owner, billionaire Jeff Bezos, isn't just making some cuts. He slashed an entire third of the staff while courting Donald Trump. Critics are highlighting these tight links between Trump and billionaires, often in tech. The Atlantic says this is essentially a murder. This photo, by the way, is Bezos in the middle on January 20, inauguration. But that basically the Post became a, quote, bargaining chip with Trump who doesn't respect bargaining supplicants. And that's not all. While Bezos is cutting those jobs and some in his team saying it's about saving money, he's plowing about 75 million into this controversial Melania film, which she says isn't even a documentary and so far isn't making the money back, drawing punchlines. Jeff Bezos, who paid for that garbage, just laid off hundreds of journalists at the Washington Post. I guess he spent all the budget on Melania. Well, well done, Jeff. What is this film? Is it a romance? Is it a political thriller? A bribe? I think it's a reclamation of the divine feminine. So it's not, it's not a 40 million dollar payoff from Jeff Bezos just to kiss up to Donald Trump, shout out to the divine feminine. But this is not the first time this has come up. Politicians in office, Congress, White House, whatever, they exist in our society. If they want to sell a Toyota car for market price, they're allowed to do so. But if a powerful tech company, billionaire or foreign oligarch wants to give them double or triple the value, well, that's a question of whether or not it's a bribe. And there are many credible accounts that this film project is overpaid for and over promoted. Meanwhile, tech CEOs have not exactly raised their voices this term the way they did in the first term, over what we've been living through. Take for example, the day that federal agents killed Alex Preddy. Tech executives were at the White House for this film screening, including Amazon's competitors, choosing to make the rare choice to show up and promote their competitors business. A streaming film. And that raises questions of whether they were there for business or something else. The first lady sharing a photo of the room there. Some of the most powerful people in business told us they had certain values. Bezos bought the Post and stood by. We should mention its coverage and saying democracy Dies in darkness in the first term. Some of those other executives I showed you who were there on the inauguration Day first term, they were protesting travel ban and other issues. And they can pick their own politics. There they are. The point is not that they don't have free speech. They're supposed to have free speech, which could include supporting Republicans. And yet, because so many of them were critical in the first term, before these shakedowns and abuse of criminal powers, the question is whether some of the most powerful people in our country are folding while random individual citizens show what real courage looks like. Semaphore's Margaret Carlson is here. Welcome.
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C
Thank you, Ari. What a gallery.
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A
Have you made it to the theater to see Melania yet?
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C
I haven't, but I've seen a lot of clips and I've kind of seen a fashion show and a lot of three inch heels and being, you know, fitted for a dress. But I didn't see. She didn't speak much and I didn't find out anything about her. What, what, what she thinks, what she does in the White House all day, what she likes to do in terms of.
- [31:22]
A
It doesn't, according to the reviews, it doesn't share much. The reviews have been withering. You can say, well, that's the press. But Rotten Tomatoes, which takes the public reviews, has currently one of the most negative public accounts of any modern film project. And the question I raise about the car is a real one. There are people, including Democratic Senator Menendez, who are in prison for taking money that was seen as trying to curry favor with our government. That's a serious crime in normal times. And there is a question here. Do you think it's fair to ask whether Amazon overpaid for this, to give money to the Trump household?
- [32:04]
C
Well, it's $75 billion for, you know, almost nothing. And it isn't, it may not earn it back. It hasn't yet. And I just, I went back and I just looked at Jackie Kennedy when she restored the White House. The Resolute desk at which Trump sits and signs his dubious orders. And there was a documentary made, there was a film, and Jackie Kennedy took us through the White House. And that was seen by 56 million people in 50 countries. And the Kennedys didn't make a cent off of it. And that's the country we used to live in, you know, the Clintons for $200,000. Whitewater deal. We're pilloried. I mean, everybody else, I think we're. Don't you feel numb to it? Like you just don't have.
- [33:01]
A
I refuse to be numb. But I know how you feel. I know what you mean, but I refuse to be numb. But it's funny you mentioned. Well, it's funny you mentioned Kennedy because he shares one passion with Bezos, which is going to space. You know, President Kennedy said the moon and the planets are there. The hopes for new dreams are there up in the sky. And I mention that to say that there was a period in Jeff Bezos's career, maybe eight or 10 years ago where he wanted to be about what he called pushing to the frontier and helping. And he did initially support the Washington Post. Journalism against government. What has changed? And are there lessons here about what the citizens are doing versus the billionaire elites?
- [33:47]
C
Well, you know, the Post is a national paper, but it's a sad day here because it's a local paper and it does a lot of good things. And I think we need to just separate for a second. The journalism at the Post is still really good. The cuts are going to hurt. The cuts have hurt, but really good. It's the editorial part, which Bezos does interfere in, that's done things like write an editorial supporting the destruction of the East Wing. But the journalism is great and it's led by a really good editor, Matt Murray. But Bezos just has his. It can't keep his hands ever since he did failed to take a stand.
- [34:33]
B
Why do you.
- [34:34]
A
Why do you think he doesn't just sell it? Why doesn't he sell it? I mean, you're at Semaphore. You guys study media all day. 30 seconds. But why not just sell it if it's such a hassle for you? It's petty.
- [34:42]
C
It's kind of petty. He doesn't want to put a cent into. But he's had offers and he won't sell it. I mean, that's cruel. That's just trashing the First Amendment. Why own it? Go buy the Seattle Hawks. I think it's up for sale. You could be the proud owner of an NFL team and just leave journalism alone and give us back the Post. How's that for a suggestion?
- [35:08]
A
Shout out to my hometown Seahawks. I didn't know that was going to come up, Margaret. I gotta run. Thank you, Margaret Carlson here on that story. The dollar has had problems and some in the markets and abroad say it's because of Donald Trump's, quote, erratic leadership. We have a real expert on that coming up. But also a report on a story that has touched so many people. The search for today's show anchor Savannah Guthrie's mother now missing for five days. We do have an update on. Turning to a very difficult situation. Authorities today gave an update on the investigation into the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. She is the 84 year old mother of the Today show host Savannah Guthrie, who many of us have worked with and know well. Her mother now missing for five days. Police stating they believe she was taken against her will. We believe Nancy is still out there at this time. We have not identified a suspect or a person of interest in this case. We are working our best to do that. We are aware of a ransom letter that was sent to the local media and then to national outlets. As with every lead, we are taking it seriously. Any action taken on any ransom is.
- [36:27]
B
Ultimately decided by the family.
- [36:30]
A
That briefing by local authorities. The president has said they're committing all federal resources available to assist the FBI. Also offering $50,000 in reward for anyone who has potential information about Nancy Guthrie's whereabouts. As you see there, Savannah Guthrie as well as her siblings have now released a new video. They posted this online to address the situation in their own words and we're going to play some of what they said, including Savannah pleading for her mother's return.
- [37:03]
C
We are ready to talk. We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you and we are ready to listen. Please reach out to us.
- [37:22]
A
The Guthrie's video an attempt to spark any type of interaction with what they believe could be the individuals who have taken Ms. Guthrie. The FBI states that they are reviewing the ransom notes seriously. They were sent to the media. Authorities have not said though publicly whether they have a view of their potential authenticity. They did confirm that one of the notes does include information. That would appear to be the kind of detail that you would have to have knowledge in order to share. In other words, they're not saying that the note is confirmed, but it did appear to have inside information. Again, as stated, anyone with information is asked to please contact the authorities. No tip is too small. If you think you might know something that is relevant, you are safe and able to simply call the FBI and share that information with authorities. Again, everyone has been following this case and around here. For those of us who've worked with and know Savannah, we are all personally hoping for the very best. We have another story when we return. There are a lot of different challenges in the country right now. I want to turn to something that gets less attention but actually matters. And it's pretty striking. President Trump and the weakening dollar, the markets and many foreign allies say that his chaotic governing style and erratic policymaking has really challenged their view of America's currency and its dependability. Trump's upheaval has left investment managers exhausted, the Post reports, and here's a simple chart that tells the story. From Inauguration day to now versus the euro, you have the dollar plunging now over 10%. What was once the world's reserve currency, which many people say is a good under Trump, is in doubt. And as Alo Black famously said in his 2010 hit, Bad Times are coming and I reap what I done so well. Let me tell you something, all that glitters ain't gold. I need a dollar, dollar, dollar, that's what I need. Or in this case, a dollar that might be worth 90 cents. We have a special guest for this discussion tonight. Tom Rogers is a longtime veteran media executive whose ties to this very network go back to the founding of msnbc, our former name, now Ms. Now. He's appeared on the Beat over the years and he is now a senior advisor at our parent company, Versant Media. Welcome back to the show.
- [39:59]
D
Thanks for having me.
- [40:00]
A
Ari, what's happening to the dollar under Trump?
- [40:03]
D
Well, it is the sell America trade. When you get to a point that you're rattling international confidence. And certainly the whole episode over Greenland did that. And you have questions about the independence of the Fed, which is very to the respect of the American economy. You have central banks around the world selling dollars, buying gold, one of the reasons that gold has been spiking. And you have individual investors doing some of the same. A weak dollar means higher prices for things that are imported. And just as we have seen that President Trump has been trying to beat the Fed into lowering interest rates. You don't lower interest rates if you have some cautiousness that inflation may not be beaten. And one way to spike more inflation is to have higher prices on imports on top of not having felt the full effect yet, probably of all the tariffs that have been imposed.
- [41:13]
A
Right. And when you talk to people in the White House, they'll sometimes say, hey, what are you so worried about? The Greenland thing? We made our point. There's no cost, we didn't invade. And I make time to hear from these people. And I wonder whether that claim there's no cost isn't quite right. If over time, foreign investors and allies say, well, we don't know what you're going to do next and we're going to price you down for it.
- [41:36]
D
Well, I think that's the point that Trump always comes out swinging with extreme position. So that where he ultimately ends up doesn't sound so dramatic. And that's part of the Trump playbook. But that doesn't leave a good taste in the mouths of European allies and others when it comes to how much trust they should put in the United States. And when you have somebody like Ken Griffin, a longtime supporter of Trump, a major player in the markets, coming out and talking about crony capitalism, it's another one of those things that just erodes confidence in the management of the US Economy.
- [42:24]
A
This made big news. This is a player in those circles and a longtime Republican donor. Let's take a look. And I think that this administration has definitely made missteps in choosing decisions or courses that have been very, very enriching to the families of those in the administration. And that calls into question is the public interest being served?
- [42:51]
D
Well, I think that he said it very well. And that is obviously an issue that has outraged some, but not felt as deeply by the American public as I think it should be. Just how much personal fortune has been amassed by President Trump over the course of administration. That's just not what the American government has ever been about. It's breaking so many norms about how the American economy should be overseen by the executive branch that I do think it's a contributing factor to a weaker dollar because it weakens confidence. Now, what we have right now is a very strong economy, but we have a very weak labor market.
- [43:37]
A
Yeah, you mentioned labor. I'll remind folks, the January numbers are actually the worst January for layoffs since the financial crisis. Where does that put us?
- [43:47]
D
Well, it puts us in a position that consumer confidence is the lowest it's been in 12 years. And when you talk to the core of Trump's constituency, non college graduates, it's the lowest it's been in 50 years. And a lot of that has to do with the labor market. Now we have more people looking for jobs than there are jobs available. Long term unemployment, people have been unemployed for a long time looking for a job and can't find one has really begun to spike. And that really negative job sentiment that is setting in has a lot to do with contributing to those low consumer confidence numbers. Yeah.
- [44:34]
A
Tom, as I mentioned, we've had you around here many times and with all of these economic political gyrations, we thought of you. So thanks for coming back.
- [44:41]
D
Thanks for having me.
- [44:42]
A
Absolutely. We'll be right back. Tonight we gave a special report on the Epstein timeline. You can tell me any questions you have about these remaining Epstein files at R. Melber on any of these social sites. Remelber, what are your questions about the Epstein files? And a reminder, we've shown this on air. If you go to Ms. Now, Ari. Msnow, Ari, you can watch that full report which we upload tonight. That does it for us. Support is available 247 with VRBoCare.
- [45:18]
C
We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help.
- [45:22]
A
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