Epstein Saga Haunts DOJ Confirmation Clash

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Beat with Ari Melber

Episode Title: Epstein Saga Haunts DOJ Confirmation Clash

Air Date: July 15, 2026
Host: Ari Melber
Notable Guests: Senator Cory Booker, John Flannery, Rich Benjamin, Molly John Fass

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Main Theme & Purpose

Ari Melber delves into the escalating controversies and legal setbacks facing Donald Trump’s administration, with a spotlight on the embattled acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche. The episode explores how Blanche's mishandling of the Jeffrey Epstein files and other ethically fraught actions now converge as he faces Senate confirmation hearings. Key topics include accountability in the DOJ, the significance of survivor advocacy, Republican political maneuvering, autocratic attacks on the free press, and rare Supreme Court testimony on ethics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Legal Setbacks for Trump and the DOJ

• E. Jean Carroll Defamation Case: Jury orders Trump to pay $5 million for defamation and sexual abuse, underscoring that even presidents can be held to account.

  “It is a reminder on a matter of great importance...that the courts can work, the money coming out of his personal account even as he is the sitting president.” (Ari Melber, 01:27)

• Taxpayer Fund Misuse Blocked: A federal judge voids the Trump DOJ’s $1B+ “MAGA fund” attempt for allies and convicts, rejecting Trump’s claims of special tax immunity.

• Impact on Attorney General Confirmation: These legal losses cast a shadow over the confirmation hearing for acting AG Todd Blanche, raising questions about his independence and credibility given his history as Trump’s criminal defense lawyer.

• Pam Bondi’s Failed Tenure: Former AG Pam Bondi was dismissed largely for failing to bury the Epstein story, which continues to impact Trump’s administration and Blanche’s prospects.

2. Epstein Files & Survivor Advocacy

• Mishandling & Retraumatization: DOJ’s botched release of Epstein files — including unredacted survivor names — leads to survivor retraumatization.

  “It just brings up... a level of PTSD that survivors are met with often.” (Danny Bensky, paraphrased by Melber, ~08:30)

• Survivor Testimony Against Blanche: Several survivors, including Danny Bensky, will testify before the Senate, urging rejection of Blanche’s nomination.

• Bipartisan Activism: Survivor and advocate activism was crucial in passing the bipartisan Epstein Transparency law; ignoring their voices is politically risky.

• Incomplete Accountability: Despite DOJ claims, many files remain unreleased or were incompletely reviewed, triggering judicial intervention:

  “A federal judge ruled Blanche had conceded, effectively violating the law by failing to even do what any lawyer would normally do.” (Ari Melber, 11:30)

3. Political Stakes in the Senate

• Thin Republican Margin: Senator Lindsey Graham’s death leaves Republicans a single-seat majority in the confirmation committee, increasing vulnerability to defectors.

• Senate Math & Vulnerable GOP Members: Some Republicans — especially those not seeking reelection — might oppose Blanche amid growing public and party backlash.

• Public & Professional Opposition:

  • Over 1,000 DOJ alumni and over 100 judges publicly oppose Blanche’s confirmation.
  • The New York City Bar and Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights have registered objections.
  • A formal bar complaint is pending against Blanche.

4. Broader DOJ & Rule of Law Concerns

• Weaponization of DOJ: Blanche is accused of pursuing revenge prosecutions, targeting Trump’s political and journalistic adversaries.
• ICE Misconduct and Absence of Accountability: Fatalities linked to ICE raise questions about DOJ oversight, with Senator Booker highlighting ongoing investigations and the DOJ's priorities.
• Corruption & Corporate Mergers: Allegations of Blanche interfering in high-profile antitrust cases, countermanding recommendations after meetings with involved parties.

5. Trump’s Attacks on the Free Press

• Subpoenaing Journalists: DOJ issues subpoenas to New York Times journalists, marking an escalation in Trump’s campaign against unfavorable coverage.

• Chilling Effect: Threats and legal pressures on the press create a climate of fear and self-censorship, especially among freelance and independent reporters.

  “You have this history of them using subpoenas, all kinds of forces... to intimidate you. It would be a lie to say that none of these forces... might persuade you one way or the other, not necessarily to stop your investigation, but how it's conducted, how it's released.” (Rich Benjamin, 29:17)

• Media Solidarity Needed: Melber and Benjamin emphasize the importance of news organizations uniting to defend the First Amendment.

• CNN Merger and Media Capture: Ongoing efforts by MAGA allies to take control of CNN, following the path of CBS, further threaten independent journalism.

6. Supreme Court Ethics Testimony

• Justices Kagan and Barrett Appear Before Congress: Rare testimony addresses failure to implement an enforceable code of ethics on the Court:

  “Right now, the mechanism has no enforceability system...[it] remains an open question.” (Justice Kagan, 45:20)

• Security Concerns: Justices discuss increasing threats and need for safety measures.

• Transparency and Cameras in Court: Brief, lighthearted exchange about potential for broadcasting court proceedings.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Accountability:

• “If you want to use the L word, the Constitution, the rule of law, things that are bigger than any one politician.”
  (Ari Melber, 05:10)

On Blanche and DOJ Ethics:

• “Todd Blanche had a duty to protect us and said he protected the people who committed crimes against us.”
  (John Flannery, quoting survivor PSA, 17:01)

• “A person like this, it should take a nanosecond to decide. I'm sorry, you may be entitled to nominate him, but I couldn't live with myself if I approved this guy.”
  (John Flannery, 22:10)

On Political Risk:

• “It is an obvious observation that you ignore [Epstein survivors] as a Republican politician at your peril.”
  (Ari Melber, 07:00)

On Press Freedom:

• “When you cave, it only gets worse. So you might as well fight.”
  (Ari Melber, 28:40)

• “They have to realize that even though they might be corporate competitors, they are not competitors in terms of this, because that's part of the strategy, is to make each... feel isolated...But it's part of a strategy, and it can feel that way if you're on the other end of a lawsuit.”
  (Rich Benjamin, 32:00)

On Senate’s Role:

• “Even on the far right, you have people coming out and saying [Blanche’s handling of Epstein files] was horrible and disqualifying... They are a danger to the United States and our public safety.”
  (Senator Cory Booker, 37:08)

• “Right now we have a government of senators that are more afraid of Donald Trump than they are of the people that have elected them. We've got to flip that on them.”
  (Senator Cory Booker, 42:37)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:27–05:04: Melber opens with Trump and DOJ’s legal setbacks, Blanche’s history, and confirmation stakes.
• 05:04–11:30: The failure of Pam Bondi and Blanche’s pivotal role in the Epstein controversy.
• 11:30–13:59: Survivor Danny Bensky’s experience; impact of failed redactions and Senate response.
• 14:54–17:08: Guest roundtable on the political ramifications of the Epstein saga.
• 19:43–22:55: John Flannery expands on legal conflicts and political implications for Blanche.
• 24:04–24:29: Molly John Fass on the QAnon connection and the ongoing lack of Epstein accountability.
• 28:40–32:53: Attacks on the free press, new subpoenas, chilling effect on journalism; guest Rich Benjamin.
• 36:50–44:34: Senator Cory Booker discusses strategy for confirmation hearing and dangers posed by Blanche.
• 44:39–47:24: Supreme Court Justices testify before Congress on ethics and transparency.

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Episode Flow & Tone

Ari Melber maintains a pointed but analytical tone—making clear his concern for rule of law, press freedom, and survivor agency while orchestrating a lively, sometimes passionate discussion among insiders and outside experts. The episode balances legal explanation, political context, and empathy for those affected by DOJ actions.

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Conclusion

This episode provides a thorough, multifaceted examination of the stakes surrounding Todd Blanche’s confirmation as Attorney General, amplified by ongoing legal, ethical, and cultural crises in Trump’s second term. The show underscores survivor advocacy, mounting institutional opposition to Blanche, and the broader threats to American democratic norms—especially the rule of law and a free press.

Transcript

[Ari Melber]

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[Julian Barnes]

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[Ari Melber]

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[Senator Cory Booker]

Wow.

[Ari Melber]

No photos please. I'm just a regular dad who happens to have a stylist. I really look my best when someone

[John Flannery]

else makes the decisions.

[Ari Melber]

Hey, we can all see you two way mirrors. Just share your size, style and budget and your stylist sends personalized looks right to your door. Stitch Fix get started today@stitch fix.com I

[Rich Benjamin]

want to hug you.

[Ari Melber]

I'm gonna hug you. I'm coming. I'm coming in for welcome to Beat. I'm Ari Melbourne. We begin with another legal loss for Donald Trump that may sound familiar. This is a big one and significant in many clear ways. Eugene Carroll will get $5 million a payout from Trump after a jury found him liable in that case regarding defamation and allegations of sexual abuse. This has been a long fight that she has doggedly waged three years that Trump pushed just to avoid paying after he'd basically already lost. But that's over. It is a reminder on a matter of great importance to her and frankly, many other women around the country who have followed how Trump has at times gotten away with these things. A reminder that the courts can work the money coming out of his personal account even as he is the sitting president. And that is just one update amidst another big loss for Trump and the DOJ on a more public matter not involving his prior personal conduct, but how his Justice Department is trying to steal and I use that word quite deliberately. Your taxpayer dollars. A federal judge putting a stop to that and voiding this effort to take over a billion dollars from taxpayers and put it in a fund for MAGA allied convicts and others. And at the same time going further, hitting Trump on an issue that has been so important to him, avoiding any tax liability. This judicial ruling strikes down his fake or made up attempt to abuse the courts and claim that he has some sort of special tax immunity. Now, these aren't just legal developments tonight, although they matter, and I'd be telling you about them anyway. But they also cast a kind of shadow over tomorrow's confirmation hearing for the acting attorney general who is facing these losses. A different attorney general, even a MAGA Republican, might not have let Trump get to this place of falling on his face and having this blatant loss over the MAGA fund because it was so obviously unlawful to begin with. You could imagine a first term attorney general like Bill Barr saying, let's not lose and get humiliated in public just because Trump wants a DOJ to do what he says. Well, that ain't Todd Blanche. He allowed this to happen and now he has these setbacks going into tomorrow's confirmation hearings. Blanche has proven to have low credibility, low independence. He'll do just about anything Trump appears to ask, which is of course why I'm mentioning these losses. And that's going to be some of the questioning that he faces, we expect tomorrow. Because he doesn't come out of just being a public official or public servant or say even a former state attorney general, like the AG he's replacing Pam Bondi. He comes out of a position that actually raises conflicts over whether he should even take this post. He was Trump's criminal defense attorney, his personal lawyer, and lately he has been acting a lot like that type of person, going after Trump's enemies, stated, you know, the people he wants to harass, subpoena, prosecute, jail, just because Trump asked for it. So it doesn't seem that he has, as they say in Washington, grown into the job or become more independent. I want you to keep your eye on this list that we have on the screen. Some of the journalistic targets are in the news and we're going to get to that later in the program. You have a new probe into FBI Director Comey. You have all of his different efforts blanched to try to curry favor with Trump to get the promotion that is on the table tomorrow. I love working for President Trump. It's an honor to be part of this administration. We have A man who's doing a great job.

[John Flannery]

Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche. He kept me out of jail. They would indict me left and right.

[Ari Melber]

If he chooses to nominate somebody else and asks me to go do something else, I will say, thank you very much. I love you, sir. Now, love is all we need, right? Who are any of us to say we shouldn't have more love in this world? And yet this is the one example you would come up with where you actually don't want the independent Attorney general talking in such sort of personal, sort of sycophantic terms about loving his boss, the president he's supposed to love. If you want to use the L word, the Constitution, the rule of law, things that are bigger than any one politician. And that may be where Pam Bondi lost her footing. She repeatedly tried to do what Trump asked, but at the end of the day, found that Trump was unhappy with her failures, or what some might call the occasional bolts of independence. And remember, Bondi might not have gotten the right memo about how to lie to maga, which is something that Trump has done a lot, because she seemed to think maybe they could promote this Epstein story and act like they were going to give out the client list and other things, not do it, and that would just work out. It didn't work out. Trump fired her in part because she couldn't get the Epstein story to go away. And it has clearly dogged his second term. Now, Blanche was running point on Epstein before he even got this promotion. I mention that because it's a reminder of which things Donald Trump actually cares about. The Epstein story involves him, his political vulnerability, and he may care about that a lot more than, say, the DOJ fighting crime or high prices or a million other issues. And Blanche's failures surrounding the Epstein files could be a big deal tomorrow. I'll tell you that several Epstein survivors have now publicly come out urging the Senate to reject Blanche's nomination. And if you're saying, okay, well, all kinds of people have views about his nomination, I would just remind you something that we learned over the last year, which was these brave survivors and many of their allies and some of their expert lawyer advocates had more effect on getting things through Congress and ultimately getting the bipartisan Epstein transparency law through Congress than a heck of a lot of other people. So I would just say it's an obvious observation that you ignore them as a Republican politician at your peril. And remember, it was Blanche who claimed that after a partial release of some documents, that would be the end of the transparency process. Today's release marks the end of a very comprehensive document identification and review process. After submitting the final report to Congress as required under the act, and publishing the written justifications for redactions in the Federal Register, the department obligations under the act will be completed. That is the face of the Trump DOJ's approach to the Epstein issue. That release, though, was incomplete. Blanche talked about a review process. It was also incomplete. And I say that as judiciously as possible. There are other words you could come up with. The released files had dozens of survivors names that were failed to be redacted. And so that raised the question about what they were doing, spending all this time potentially trying to do secrecy for Trump and whether by oversight, malfeasance or any other allegation, not apparently caring much about, again, these brave women, some of whom were girls at the time, who had stepped forward. Now, one survivor who chose to be public, Danny Bensky, spoke out then. It's horribly distressing for survivors because, you know, we've had so many conversations with the Democrats, the Republicans, we're in offices, and we're constantly saying how important the reduction process is. And getting it right is. You don't expect to see your name, of course. Right. And so as you're scrolling to see your name, it just brings up, it really is a level of PTSD that survivors are met with often. A fair point, one we might want to listen to, one that might at least be worth hearing as we consider the country through our elected officials in the Senate, as we consider whether this person is fit to take on the promotion to be the most powerful law enforcement official in the country who, according to at least some Epstein victims, failed them. Should Bensky be heard by our Senate? Well, we do the news around here. I have a little news on the confirmation process. She is among those testifying tomorrow, so she will be included, her voice heard by senators in both parties. And I could tell you she is testifying against Blanche getting this promotion. So there's a lot of evidence the DOJ failed to follow all of the requirements under that law and that that had an impact, of course, on these survivors. And then the process, however, slowly went forward. So it was weeks after that. I'm reminding you that a federal judge ruled Blanche had conceded, effectively violating the law by failing to even do what any lawyer would normally do, which is, you know, present in court. What's your defense? What's your rebuttal? When he failed to do that as a legal matter, it was treated as conceding breaking the Epstein law. And that judge ordered the DOJ to then deal with those files and unredact them or at least do what Blanche had failed to do. Like so many other Trump officials, they see how far they can get away with just flouting or ignoring what orders. I can tell you that Blanchard's DOJ ultimately did not choose to defend its actions. That case is on appeal. So there's a lot for Blanche to address tomorrow. And then there is the Senate math. These are people, right? They represent their states, they are officials. We talk about them sometimes like they are instruments of government, but they are people. And we are all, as we know, mortal. And Lindsey Graham who died, has changed the overall math in that committee. Republicans now down to a one seat edge. That is just the public fact. I don't say that during the period of mourning and remembering his time in office as anything other than the reality. We deal in facts and evidence here, the reality of the votes on that committee. And so it means they can only lose one. That is the math. Mr. Blanche might have his work cut out for him. And we have two guests on this important topic when we're back together in 90 seconds. Here's what happened. When one journalist reported on DEI programs, I decided to just focus on the University of Michigan. I obtained internal documents that showed that the school had spent about a quarter of a billion dollars on DEI programs. I spent two weeks in Ann Arbor talking to everybody I could find. The unintended consequences of these programs, they had sort of left everybody dissatisfied. And this expensive machinery the school had built just imploded. If you're a journalist, you are not on anyone's team. All you're trying to do is figure out as many of the facts as you can gather. The facts are gonna guide you to where the story lands. You're not taking sides. I'm Nick Confessori. I'm an investigations reporter for the New York Times. Journalists like Nick follow the facts wherever they lead. They go where news breaks, get answers firsthand and publish what they find. That's fact based reporting. Seek it out if you don't already.

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[Ari Melber]

stitch fix. Stop shopping. Get styled. Not today, sweatpants. Somebody's wearing jeans that fit.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Wow.

[Ari Melber]

No photos please. I'm just a regular dad who happens to have a stylist. I really look my best when someone

[John Flannery]

else makes the decisions.

[Ari Melber]

Hey, we can all see you two way mirrors. Just share your size, style and budget and your stylist sends personalized looks right to your door. Stitch fix. Get started today@stitch stitch fix.com I want to hug you. I'm going to hug you. I'm coming in for a hug. Everybody's afraid that the next administration, if we don't win, we're going to all be investigated and indicted. Think about that. This is not a third world country. This is America. And the existing administration is afraid that they're going to get indicted. Gosh, how could that ever happen? In America, no less. That is of course, Todd Blanche who is up for the promotion to the very powerful job of attorney general. The hearing is tomor Republicans have a one vote margin as I was reporting on that committee now. And I want to welcome New York Times contributing writer Molly, John Fass and former federal prosecutor and relevant tonight, a former congressional counsel, John Flannery. Welcome to you both.

[John Flannery]

Good to be here.

[Ari Melber]

Good to have you, Molly. I went through how we got here and the Epstein part matters and it's clearly mattered in how Republicans have voted on these issues. Where do you see that figuring in tomorrow?

[Cyndi Lauper]

So I think Epstein is still remember there is a school of thought. There are people who believe that Trump is still trying to distract from the Epstein files even now. And you'll remember they did dominate the zeitgeist for a couple months there. And so now we have more of these survivors out talking. And I think it's important to just pull back and see what the survivors say, which is the release was a failure. Right? They were re traumatized again. Their personal information was shared publicly. Danny talked about her address being published like this was not how it was supposed to go. And there are still Clearly a lot more files that are not.

[Ari Melber]

That have not been released. What they're saying is simple. It's very easy to follow.

[Cyndi Lauper]

Right.

[Ari Melber]

They're saying this particular nominee was more involved in that failed release than any other person at doj.

[Cyndi Lauper]

Right.

[Ari Melber]

So pick someone else rather than acting like, or perhaps showing that you don't care.

[Cyndi Lauper]

And they are not the only people saying that. Remember, Pam Bondi said that.

[Ari Melber]

In what sense?

[Cyndi Lauper]

She. Pam Bondi said that. That Todd Blanche was more involved with the Epstein files.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. Well, I think she said that because of their own sort of internal DOJ issues.

[Cyndi Lauper]

I'm just saying. Yeah, she did say it, though. And so she and the survivors are both saying the same thing.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And so on that point, I mean, John, I mentioned you have many credentials, but one is that you've been a lawyer inside the congressional process, which is a service kind of mode. And I want to show one of these sort of what they call PSAs or political ads that's new from some of the survivor groups about Blanche.

[John Flannery]

Okay.

[Ari Melber]

I am an Epstein survivor. We were exposed. Nude pictures of victims were released.

[Cyndi Lauper]

Our family safety was put at risk.

[John Flannery]

Now Todd Blanche wants to be the Attorney General of the United States.

[Ari Melber]

Todd Blanche had a duty to protect us and said he protected the people who committed crimes against us.

[John Flannery]

We deserve better.

[Ari Melber]

Our country deserves better. Vote no on Todd Blanch for Attorney General. John, how does that figure in tomorrow?

[John Flannery]

Well, it's powerful. And I think that if I were advising a senator who's asking questions tomorrow, I would say to the nominee to be Attorney General, would you turn to these people and apologize that you've ignored them all this time? And will you agree to do something in case right now? And why haven't you? And why have you concealed 6 million documents? Why have you bracketed things and withheld them and had to change things online? And aren't you in violation of a court order long since ignored by you when it was supposed to be done by a date certain and it wasn't? So I think all those things should be said, but I think it's a mistake if we don't talk about other things that are fact indisputable. One is, of course, the order by Judge Williams. That's a powerful order. It says that the acting Attorney general is in a position to have a claimant Trump sue himself. The agencies pretend this is a conflict and a system that requires a conflict for a judge to be involved. And the judge, in a way invoked a long phrase that people admire, which is no one should be a judge in their own case. That conflict is traveled by Blanche, is traveled by Trump and everybody who was involved in the case. And the facts are indisputable that they wanted to have immunity from audits and they wanted1.8 billion dollars as a slush fund to pay off those they'd already pardoned for whatever purpose they could, except to just be arrogant and put it in our face. They had to back off that. The second thing is Maxwell is also a person he can't run away from. The fact is there, it happened, he did it. We have what he said. Those two things alone, plus the Epstein failures. It seems to me if we make those clear, two things are going to happen. We are either going to get two votes that will kill his nomination in committee or at least not commended to the floor by some other trick, or we're going to identify people who in the upcoming elections have to carry this, even as we can expect that Blanche will do more and worse things to keep his phony baloney job at the behest of Trump.

[Ari Melber]

Well, that's why I mentioned this is ultimately about math. It's about what issues move any of those votes. And the Epstein issue has moved Republican votes. So to the extent that Republican senators think, oh, I got out from that. I voted for the Transparency act, yada yada, oh, no, as you said, whether they're going to be finding this trails them in future elections. Then you went back and promoted the guy who the survivors say and a heck of a lot of other people say, and by the way, a lot of MAGA podcasters say blew it. So don't tell us you're for the Transparency act if you promoted him. And again, this is not, oh, drag, blanch off to prison or say he's the worst guy ever. This is just, are you doing your job in a way where you deserve a promotion is at which Republicans want to say that. I'll let you respond to that, John. I want to show in context as well, the New York City bar opposing Todd Blanche DOJ alums unusually wide swath over over a thousand publicly coming out. We have these headlines, the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. And then there's a state bar complaint, not proven, but it has again the unusual negative implication for Mr. Blanche, again for promotion, not jail, that over a hundred, a hundred judges who've served John say, no, do not promote this man. Can you give us legal context on how rare this is? Because I've followed AG fights where the ideology was controversial, but I don't remember this many people coming out of the

[John Flannery]

woodwork, I think that the basis that makes them comfortable. And so. And it's so unusual is the fact that we're talking about partisan and we're talking. And it's not about the law, talking about, if you will, the third world, that he said we would be under Democrats when he is presiding over exactly that at the behest of Trump. And so when we look at this, we have those judges, but we also have Judge Williams. And in that decision, it's 54 pages, it's worth reading because it's a very good invitation to understand the context we're in and what's so wrong about Blanche. And in that opinion, it references there's already a pending, which I didn't know about. There's a pending complaint against him. She says in the report, and she refers the entire decision to be considered. Now, she can't make a claim, but she can make available information for purposes of deciding whether or not he should have his bar ticket taken away. You know, when you had people like Bobby Kennedy, but you got somebody's proposed is more like John Mitchell. You have to draw a line there. How can people in this country consider there's any justice when they see, where are the prosecutions of the ICE who are. Are hurting and killing people who are violating their individual rights? Where is this guy? When we're having this problem with people who have been assaulted as children and still live with this every day of their lives, we can't ignore these things. And a person like this, it should take a nanosecond to decide. I'm sorry, you may be entitled to nominate him, but I couldn't live with myself if I approved this guy. You can't say that you shouldn't be elected.

[Ari Melber]

Let me bring Molly before we go. I mean, that's really what it comes down to, is in a Republican Senate, does this get lumped in with the usual thing of, well, the President gets his picks, or on Epstein and these terrible ICE incidents, use of force, lethal. Do some Republicans say, wait, this is not what they wanted to sign onto going right into the fall?

[Cyndi Lauper]

Well, and you have three Republicans who are losing their seats directly because of Donald Trump. Right. The YOLO caucus, Tillis, Cassidy and Cornyn. So they have a lot of power because of the math here, because the McConnell seat and Graham is not in. You know, both of them are not going to be voting for this. There will be. There really is power there. And so they could, in fact, sink this nomination. The question is, will they do it. Are they brave?

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And that's why, again, people love to get ahead of it. There were plenty of people saying, well, the smart money is this, this law, the transparency law will never go anywhere because they have the majority. Well, not only did it go, once it cracked and they saw it was gonna pass, all the Republicans left Trump.

[Cyndi Lauper]

Epstein is a really important issue because, remember, Trump shot to fame in 2016. He ran on the idea that there was QAnon, that this was something that was actually real. Here is something that is as close to QAnon as anything. And there's mountains and mountains of all of these survivors of this video evidence, all of these papers, and yet no prosecution.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And that's why, I mean, again, John's right. There's many important issues here, certainly ice, which we've covered a ton. But on Epstein, you have Blanche arrayed against the MAGA base. So it comes back tomorrow because they're reminded that this is the guy. And you literally could have promoted anyone else. Trump likes that. He was heat shield and secretive on the issue. Nobody else does. Molly, John, thanks to both of you. Tonight we have a very special guest, Senator Cory Booker, who is, of course, on the committee questioning Blanche tomorrow. A busy time here. Confirmation Eve. He'll be with us later. Supreme Court justices making a rare trip to Capitol Hill today to testify. We have that for you. And the First Amendment under siege while several newspapers, including the Times, fight back as their reporting are subpoenaed. I have that important story with Rich Benjamin coming up. One of the defining questions in this second Trump term is who fights and who doesn't. In those first few months of the second term, we saw a lot of caving, even from organizations that weren't magified to begin with. Law firms that literally are paid by clients to fight in court, caving in court. And yet there has been a slow but very clear shift as more groups figure out that even if you don't want to be in a big public battle with the most powerful person in the world, the sitting president, when you cave, it only gets worse. So you might as well fight. And then there are some organizations that have been fighting the whole time. And that's the context for Trump's attack on the free press. Tonight, the DOJ has issued new subpoenas to New York Times journalists over coverage that Donald Trump didn't like. This is pure anti First Amendment autocratic moves. And so the question is, faced with those subpoenas, what do you do? Well, we are seeing the Times like the Wall Street Journal, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch, fighting in court. As for the validity here, well, experts see this kind of abuse of government power, subpoenaing coverage you don't like, as dangerous, as brazen, even unprecedented. And these subpoenas target four different New York Times journalists who are reporting on very real security concerns over Trump taking that gift jet. And just to be clear, this would be helpful as part of the way we do governance in America, that if the government in this case was potentially not moving fast enough to protect the president, there will be honest and factual reporting about that to try to make sure that everyone understands what's going on. In this case, there was a lack of anti missile capabilities that reportedly meant that Trump couldn't use the gift jet, which has raised all sorts of separate corruption questions. But as a safety matter, that he couldn't use it to fly back from the NATO summit and they used the original Air Force One. Everything I just said is pretty straightforward. And as mentioned, if it helps in any way publicize the need for safety for the president or anyone else involved in the U.S. government, well, that would seem like a downright patriotic type of reporting. And yet Donald Trump was enraged by this story, according to reporting, and he asked the FBI director to go after the leaks. And this, of course, is a trend. There have been other subpoenas to journalists also at the Times and at the Washington Post, and as mentioned at the Wall Street Journal, which has been fighting Trump in court, there's the indictments of Don Lemon and Georgia Ford and the threats and attacks on comics exercising their First Amendment rights. On the flip side, we have the government involved in what looks like encouraging a reorganization of the independent press. MAGA allies on a fast track right now to take control of cnn. That's part of that big merger deal we've told you about. The purchase is facing other new legal hurdles with states now suing to block the deal. But most of the smart money is on that being a final kind of test. But the deal probably going through, which means what happened CBS From 60 Minutes to Colbert will be coming to CNN soon. So to look at both the new subpoenas and these larger issues, I want to bring in a special guest, Back to the Beat. Rich Benjamin has written for the New Yorker, the New York Times and other outlets. He's an American cultural critic and an author. His new book, Talk to Me Lessons from a Family Forged by History, won, or I should say was a Lucas Book Prize finalist. Congratulations.

[Rich Benjamin]

Thank you, Ari.

[Ari Melber]

You look at these subpoenas, they follow a Wider trend. What does it mean to be an independent voice or writer or journalist in America under these kind of threats?

[Rich Benjamin]

Well, Ari, take yourself back. Imagine yourself at a pitch meeting, you're at an editorial meeting with any of these outlets, and you want to do any of the hard, serious investigative journalism that this administration demands, given all the shenanigans they're doing across the board. And so you have this history of them using subpoenas, all kinds of forces at their command, regulators, the courts, federal prosecutors, to intimidate you. It would be a lie to say that none of these forces kind of might persuade you one way or the other, not necessarily to stop your investigation, but how it's conducted, how it's released,

[Ari Melber]

it chills it, it adds costs. It has people looking over their shoulder like we're in, as they like, to a different country.

[Rich Benjamin]

We're in a different country. And so some really well funded institutions like the New York Times are lawyered up to be able to do this. But in the murkier cases, when you have independent journalists working for, let's say, the New Yorker working for ProPublica doing really good journalism, and they're not necessarily staff members, that's a different equation. So this is chilling and people should fight it. And we're glad that the New York Times is fighting these subpoenas.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, I mean, you kind of get a clarity when there's this kind of pressure on. And you realize even groups that are sometimes seen as rivals at times might be a competitor with the Journal, this TV network might be a competitor with another. And then you pull back and say, well, all free press needs to be clear and united in supporting our constitutional rights because they are under attack. And cnn, if it goes by the way of cbs, will be a very different outlet. Maggie Haberman, who I think a lot of our viewers know at the Times, was speaking about these new subpoenas, she has done a lot of this reporting as well. It's a different set of her colleagues who are facing this current round. But let's take a look at what she just said. The movie Inside the Times is that the President has gone after the New York Times as long as he has been in public life, literally, I mean, long before he became president through a series of escalating threats, lawsuits in his private capacity. Now as president, what we have seen is a continuation, and Jonathan and I write about this in the book of a bullying campaign across every aspect of civil society since he came back into office. It is a use of presidential power that we just have not seen on such a global scale across the country and across industries. Since you write books, you know, the idea of it can't happen here. It is happening here. What else do you think people can do to fight back, to not give in to cynicism or hopelessness?

[Rich Benjamin]

It speaks to your other point, and that is as people perceive the economy of the media to be shrinking, fair or not, they might feel themselves to be able to be picked off like a pack of sheep straying, you know, but they have to stick together. They have to realize that even though they might be corporate competitors, they are not competitors in terms of this, because that's part of the strategy, is to make each independent organization, each independent journalist feel isolated, as though this is unique or singular to them. But it's part of a strategy, and it can feel that way if you're on the other end of a lawsuit. It can feel singular. But part of the strategy of not caving in is for these people to stick together on First Amendment issues through their unions and through various legal mechanisms and organizations. They're very much. We're all in this together.

[John Flannery]

Yeah.

[Ari Melber]

And it is striking. I mean, they. They have a real method to it. And in the case with the New York Times, they're testing. They. They understand to some degree that at least as of today, they've decided not to try to illegally indict New York Times reporters, although they did illegally indict, according to at least many experts. We haven't seen a conviction, Don Lemon. And the big difference is what you just pointed out. Mr. Lemon, while he might be prominent, well known, is an independent journalist. Right now he's gotta fire his own lawyers and this and that. At the New York Times, they're kind of seeing, well, can they get away with these subpoenas? A national security story is important, but barring some other crime that we haven't yet seen them present evidence of, I don't think these subpoenas will hold up in court. We will see. Rich, good to have you. Great to be here. Appreciate it. Coming up, we have two Supreme Court justices facing Congress today. You rarely see that. This was the dramatic footage of them walking in. We'll explain what they had to say. And as promised, one of the top Democrats will be questioning Mr. Blanche tomorrow on that committee. Cory Booker is here next.

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[Julian Barnes]

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[Ari Melber]

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[Ari Melber]

I love working for President Trump. It's an honor to be part of this administration. We have a man who's doing a great job.

[John Flannery]

Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche. He kept me out of jail. They would indict me left and right.

[Ari Melber]

If he chooses to nominate somebody else and asks me to go do something else, I will say thank you very much. I love you sir. That is Todd Blanche up for a big promotion. Confirmation hearings tomorrow over whether he should run the DOJ permanently as the new Attorney General. We're joined as promised now by an important person in that process. Senator Cory Booker, New Jersey Democrat, will be questioning Blanche tomorrow in these high stakes confirmation hearings. We should note that today Senator Booker stood with some Epstein survivors discussing a new bill to try to protect their information, including information that was released pursuant to Mr. Blanche's operations as then Deputy Attorney General in the Trump administration. Welcome.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Thank you very much. It's good to be on on the eve of what is going to be one of the more important confirmation hearings in the Senate.

[Ari Melber]

This is a big one. How are you approaching tomorrow and do you think there is a set of topics or Questions that actually could imperil Blanche getting this promotion.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Well, you know, my set put out 14 different issues that should be disqualifying that conservatives even have come out. You just talk about the Epstein files, his horrific handling of them, him retraumatizing the survivors because of releasing their personal information, opening them up to hate. Even on the far right, you have people coming out and saying that was horrible and disqualifying. You have former DOJ officials, over 1200 of them, coming out in an unprecedented way we've never seen before in the Senate. People appointed by Republicans and Democrats, alumni from the DoJ, saying, Do not let this person have this position permanently. They are a danger to the United States and our public safety. So you can go through over and over again, even my partnering with Senator Cassidy on the Republican side about the slush fund that he was presiding over, hoping to get people who beat viciously police officers on January 7, helping to get them resources, taxpayer money. So there's numerous things that should bury this confirmation. But unfortunately, we're living in a period in which so many of my Republican Senate colleagues are willing to close their eyes, put their fingers in their ears and ignore the evidence before them in order that Donald Trump can do whatever he wants and get whatever he wants. But in this case, what he gets, what we get, is the potential of having the highest law enforcement officer in the land being one of the most corrupt ever.

[Ari Melber]

And that's as mentioned, a couple issues, including Epstein, we're talking amid ongoing questions facing how ice, which is part of the larger law enforcement system, how it operates, allegations of excessive force, these fatal incidents. Where does that figure into what you want to know tomorrow?

[Senator Cory Booker]

Well, I mean, you say allegations. We all have seen what happened with Renee Goode and Alex Preddy, and now these two most recent murders. Fathers going to work with American children, been in this country for years and years and years being so systematically murdered. And where's the accountability? Where is the investigation? This DOJ has unraveled our investigatory powers into things like this in order to focus on doing Donald Trump's willingness and have shown their willingness to sell their authority. For example. There's a whole area that I'm focused on with too much corporate concentration, no oversight for these mergers. The DOJ was actively investigating a merger. He goes out to dinner with some of the parties. That's stunning. And then comes back and counterman's recommendations. He was getting to not allow the merger, and now they're merged. It is part and parcel of what this president stands for. Which is the White House is for sale. I'm going to get rich and I'm going to hire people that are going to protect me, whether it's from things I've done wrong that are illegal or for things that I intend to do while I'm still in this office.

[Ari Melber]

And what do you want to know tomorrow about his view or oversight of all of these very shoddy, baseless revenge prosecutions? I know that some of your Republican colleagues seem to care when it involved, I guess, a moderate or conservative friendly Fed chair, but they care less when it's other people. It would seem that we need one rule of law for everyone. Although I suppose in politics sometimes you take what you can get. So any view on why Republicans were more concerned about that with the Fed, and how do you press him as a nominee on this tomorrow?

[Senator Cory Booker]

Well, a couple things. Well, first of all, this hits home with me more than ever because I have Lamonica McIver, a congresswoman that represents the city of Newark. She's going to trial soon on again, a case that should have never been brought for her, doing her job at Delaney hall, something you've covered a lot of. They brought charges against my mayor of my city, Raspberaka, and thank God a judge laughed it out. So this is what my colleagues need to understand first. They're coming for people on the left. But once you, once you are willing to break laws, once you're living to weaponize the Justice Department to think that you in some way, and we know this with what we saw with the Fed, they have no bounds whatsoever. This is not about left or right. This is about what's right and what's wrong. And he is a danger to our democracy. He's a danger to our elections. He is a danger to anyone who's abiding by the rule of law and standing up for principle. If Donald Trump finds that principle in any way offensive to him or an attack on him, to broaden out a

[Ari Melber]

little bit, you've sort of tried to stand up in the opposition in various ways. People saw you when you were doing the big speech. You have a background of, of trying activism. You were early adopter digitally. So that's sort of what people think of with, you know, Cory Booker to some degree. Do you have a theory of change here in the second term? Because we see these certain things, like the MAGA Fund running into Republican opposition, like Bill Pulte running into opposition. Do you have a theory of why certain things are too much even as many Americans are aghast at how much it seems that Trump is getting away with.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Well, a lot of it is about the psychology of my colleagues right until the November elections, which are coming closer and closer. And we can get back to House or the Senate and really start to perform our constitutional duty of checking and balancing an out of control president, providing oversight and accountability. Right now we are on a narrow, thin margin which can we change the minds of some Republicans? And that is really the question. And is it fear? Is that the reason why they're not doing anything? We've seen Republicans that are suddenly not coming back to the Senate find a lot more voice in criticizing Donald Trump. So maybe it's their fear of retribution. But we know that Thomas Jefferson said something profound that still applies today. When the people are afraid of their government, there's tyranny. When the government is afraid of people, there is liberty. And so right now we have a government of senators that are more afraid of Donald Trump than they are of the people that have elected them. We've got to flip that on them and make them.

[Ari Melber]

Do you think I'm running over on time? But again, since we have a little, what you would call a colloquy, what we call a conversation, you know, do you, do you have a view of, of that when we see these Republicans who, oh, they, they lose their primary, they got a few months left, and now suddenly we get a different version of them, do you find that's revealing? Do you find it's kind of pathetic? These are grown men sometimes past retirement age, you suddenly go, well, now I'm going to give them a hard time for a couple months. But you're, you're closer to it than most of us. What do you think?

[Senator Cory Booker]

Well, look, I have very strong feelings on this, but I am here not to, for my anguish and my anger. I'm here to deliver things, to protect people in the state of New Jersey and around our nation. So I'll take whatever I can get. But I'm telling you right now, I'm standing here because civil rights legislation that was blocked by obstinate senators were moved not by other senators. They were moved by people protesting, standing up, speaking up. This is really a time where every American has got to decide whether they want a corrupt government that's being sold to the highest bidder. That's why Donald Trump made $2 billion. Or do they want the rule of law, which we all swore an oath to. And if you want the rule of law, you cannot be silent as our democracy gets eroded. The speech he's Gonna give Thursday night is already showing me that our democracy could be really in peril right now, but it cannot end if we stand up and fight for it. And that's what everyone has an obligation. Obviously, I'll be doing that tomorrow.

[John Flannery]

Yeah.

[Ari Melber]

Well, we're on the eve of these hearings. Busy time for you. Senator, thanks for joining us. We will be right back.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Thank you.

[Ari Melber]

We have three branches of government. We know that you got the executive and the legislative, and they're always going back and forth. Congress and the presidency.

[Cyndi Lauper]

Right.

[Ari Melber]

But the judicial branch is usually off on its own for good reason, which makes this site today pretty rare. Supreme Court Justices Kagan and Barrett going in and testifying to Congress, if you're checking. Well, this hasn't happened since 2019, and it was the first time any justices did this occasional ritual since there have been very big questions about ethics and corruption issues by some of the Republican appointees on the Court, including Thomas and Alito. Kagan asked directly about whether the Court's ethics are working.

[Rich Benjamin]

We, the nine justices, all agreed to a code of conduct. It's specifically geared towards the Supreme Court. Right now, the mechanism has no enforceability system. One idea that has been suggested by some people is to use respected retired judges. That has some pros, some cons. I think that this remains an open question, a question of discussion, but so far, we have not resolved anything.

[Ari Melber]

They haven't resolved it. And they have Republican appointees who have been caught taking things of value that sometimes dwarf their entire annual salary. And as it happens, that's just the Republican appointees, some of them. So Kagan was in the uncomfortable position of trying to be respectful to her colleagues while saying, yeah, no, we haven't fixed this. There was also important testimony about safety considerations. I didn't expect that performing this service was going to put me in the position of explaining to my children what a bulletproof vest was and why I

[Rich Benjamin]

had to wear one.

[Ari Melber]

That speaks to the country we live in, the availability of guns, something that's also a jurisprudential legal issue. And of course, we wish safety for all members of the court. They, like public officials like the president, are operating in an environment of these increased threat levels. So that's part of one of the topics that they discuss here in this testimony. Then there was a lighter discussion about cameras in the courtroom.

[John Flannery]

There's always the view out there of

[Ari Melber]

what about cameras in the court.

[John Flannery]

You know, so

[Ari Melber]

we have them everywhere here. But as members of Congress, good or bad. Okay, I'll take a breath on that. No, It's.

[Rich Benjamin]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to turn it around.

[John Flannery]

No, no.

[Cyndi Lauper]

Very good.

[Ari Melber]

It's very good.

[Cyndi Lauper]

It's called transparency.

[Ari Melber]

A little back and forth from two smart people in public life. As a reminder, the Supreme Court and all federal courts bar cameras. As you know, not everybody wants a camera on all the time. The weeknight starts now.

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[Senator Cory Booker]

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