Epstein Scandal Rocks Trump White House

Summary

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The Beat with Ari Melber

Episode: Epstein Scandal Rocks Trump White House
Date: August 6, 2025
Host: Ari Melber
Guests: Reverend Al Sharpton, Molly Jong-Fast, James Cameron, Don Lemon

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the escalating Jeffrey Epstein scandal and its significant impact on the Trump White House during Trump's second term. Ari Melber and his guests analyze the White House's attempts at damage control, the unusual political fallout, contradictions in Trump's handling of the case, the role of Ghislaine Maxwell, and the deep unrest among Trump's conservative base. Later, the conversation pivots to broader social and political issues, including civil rights, media dynamics, and climate policy, culminating in an insightful interview with filmmaker James Cameron.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. White House Damage Control: The Latest Epstein Uproar

• White House Scramble: Ari Melber opens by highlighting how the Trump administration is urgently seeking to quell the latest Epstein-linked crisis. Reports circulate about a high-level meeting at the Vice President’s residence, which officials deny is related to Epstein – a denial Melber finds suspect.

  • Quote: “Trump White House scrambling now late in the day to quell another Epstein related uproar.” – Ari Melber [00:42]

• Denials and Dissonance: Both Trump and Vice President Vance deny the meeting is Epstein-related, calling the story “fake news.” Melber notes the irony: “If it’s a hoax, it’s his hoax.”

  • Quote: “The whole thing is a hoax.” – Donald Trump, as recounted by Melber [02:19]

• Maxwell’s Leniency & Leaks: Ghislaine Maxwell is reportedly receiving unusually favorable prison treatment, fueling suspicions of a quid pro quo with the administration. Leaks from her DOJ interviews oddly exonerate Trump, raising deeper concerns about manipulation and cover-up.

  • Quote: “One actual real world change is better treatment and leniency for an Epstein sex trafficking conspirator.” – Ari Melber [03:15]

2. Suspicion and Political Fallout

• Quid Pro Quo Concerns: Discussion centers on why Maxwell is discussing Trump in closed DOJ interviews when the case is supposedly over. Melber and guests suggest the administration is bungling its response, heightening public suspicion.

  • Quote: “We are seeing suspicious bricks in a wall that looks like Maxwell gave them stuff and now they’re giving her stuff.” – Ari Melber [07:04]

• MAGA Backlash: For the first time, Trump’s base is experiencing deep unease with his administration’s handling of the Epstein case. Melber references polling showing that even a majority of Trump voters think he’s hiding information.

  • Quote: “81%... also think he’s hiding it.” – Ari Melber on UMass Poll [12:12]

• The Leaks and the Amateur Hour: Reverend Al Sharpton is blunt: “At best, I’d rank them as amateurs because they’re making very big mistakes.” [08:51]

  • Political Consequences: Even straightforward denials and attempts to shift blame are backfiring as the public and media scrutinize every move.

• Trump’s Pattern of Self-Inflicted Wounds: Sharpton observes, “He keeps talking himself back into this... If they had not had to move with the deputy attorney general, if they had not had to move with Trump talking about this on a daily basis and denying it, it would have died that week.” [10:57]

Memorable Analogy

• “On other scandals, Donald Trump has been Wile E. Coyote... he always gets away. Why do you think on this one, he suddenly is sitting in this for weeks on end...” – Ari Melber [09:55]

3. Broader Civil Rights and Political Stakes

• Sharpton on Rights Rollbacks: Marking the 60th anniversary of the Voting Rights Act, Sharpton criticizes legislative assaults on civil rights, voting rights, and LGBTQ rights—and draws a direct link to the current political climate.
  • Quote: “Everything that was fought for out of the 60s... there's been not only a retrenchment but hostility of LGBTQ rights...” – Rev. Al Sharpton [16:29]
• Supreme Court Critique: Melber and Sharpton discuss how recent court decisions fail to recognize ongoing discrimination in Texas and beyond.
  • Quote: “He’d have to say, the data shows that I was wrong.” – Sharpton on Chief Justice Roberts [18:05]

4. Media, MAGA Base, and the Inflection Point

• Conservative Media Uproar: Melber showcases clips and reactions from MAGA influencers and the conservative online sphere, highlighting unprecedented criticism of Trump from within the movement.

  • Quote: “It seems like you think your base is stupid. That’s how I feel. I feel like Trump thinks his base is stupid.” – Kelly Ripa (panelist) [22:56]
  • Quote: “Who is rolling this out? The little rascals. It’s very upsetting. It’s extremely upsetting. There is something there, and it’s being covered up and the president blessed it.” – Kelly Ripa [24:13]

• Parallel to Hurricane Katrina: Melber draws a historic analogy, suggesting the scandal could be Trump’s “Katrina moment”—an inflection point with lasting consequences for his presidency.

  • Quote: “Now is Epstein that inflection point?... He has dodged other scandals, but this one feels different.” – Ari Melber [26:40]

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5. Lighter Panel Segment & AI Regulation Concerns ([29:43])

• The panelists—Don Lemon, Molly Jong-Fast, Reverend Sharpton—share pointed “fallbacks” (grievances), including:

  • Charlie Kirk’s “Mrs. Degree” advice and criticisms of Juneteenth dismissals [29:43]
  • Broward County’s decision to end free school lunches [30:23]
  • The phenomenon of AI romantic relationships and the lack of regulation around tech developments [31:06]

• Quote (on AI relationships):
  “I think that we need more human touch and companionship and company... Because then otherwise, you’re weird and not human, and you start proposing to AI Bond and Molly.” – Reverend Al Sharpton [32:46]

• Concerns are raised about Congress failing to regulate vital new technologies, with panelists warning of a looming disaster if regulation doesn’t catch up.

  • Quote: “Congress does not regulate, and they have just dropped the ball on any regulation... We are heading towards a disaster.” – Molly Jong-Fast [33:48]

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6. James Cameron: Art, Technology, and the Climate Crisis ([38:36])

• Cameron’s Environmental Focus:
  The filmmaker discusses how all his works, from Titanic to Avatar, share themes of environmental peril, technological hubris, and humanity’s self-destructive tendencies.

  • Quote: “Even Titanic, to me, in my mind, it was a metaphor for climate change... we see it in front of us and we can’t turn in time.” – James Cameron [38:36]

• Why Artists Often Predict the Future:

  • Quote: “It’s about imagination, putting together pie that are there, where facts and data are known in ways that other people don’t.” – James Cameron [40:59]

• Biggest Threat Facing Earth:

  • Quote: “The greatest threat to the Earth right now is the human race.” – James Cameron [41:43]

• Final Reflections:

  • “Set a goal that’s so high you can never achieve it, so that you fail above everybody else.” – James Cameron [42:57]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If it’s a hoax, it’s his hoax.” – Ari Melber [02:19]
• “81%... also think he’s hiding it.” – Ari Melber on UMass Poll [12:12]
• “On other scandals, Donald Trump has been Wile E. Coyote... Why do you think on this one, he suddenly is sitting in this for weeks on end...” – Ari Melber [09:55]
• “A fish wouldn’t get caught if he kept his mouth shut.” – Rev. Al Sharpton [10:17]
• “At best, I’d rank them as amateurs because they’re making very big mistakes.” – Rev. Al Sharpton [08:51]
• “We need more human touch and companionship and company.” – Rev. Al Sharpton [32:46]
• “Even Titanic... was a metaphor for climate change... we see it in front of us and we can’t turn in time.” – James Cameron [38:36]
• “The greatest threat to the Earth right now is the human race.” – James Cameron [41:43]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• White House Damage Control & Denials: [00:42] – [03:15]
• Maxwell Leniency & Suspicious DOJ Interviews: [03:15] – [07:04]
• MAGA Base Backlash, Polling Data: [12:08] – [14:05]
• Sharpton on Rights Rollbacks & Supreme Court: [16:01] – [19:21]
• Coverage of Conservative/MAGA Outrage—Inflection Point: [20:04] – [27:44]
• AI Regulation and The Panel’s Fallbacks: [29:43] – [34:07]
• James Cameron Interview—Art & Climate Change: [38:36] – [43:10]

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Conclusion

This episode captures a historic moment of severe political damage for the Trump White House, brought about not by outside critics but by internal missteps and a scandal that refuses to fade. Melber and his guests deftly navigate the news, the public’s suspicions, and the broader context of eroding rights and political instability. The James Cameron interview invites listeners to consider the power of art and the existential challenge of climate change, reminding us that mismanagement—whether in government or the environment—has lasting consequences.

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Transcript

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa. And if you've been listening to my podcast, we are knee deep in season three. And if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six? Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office? Or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx? Nowhere else. It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Rippa now. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ari Melber]

Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending. With real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast. Welcome to the Beat. I'm Ari Melbourne. We have continuing coverage on this damage control that is coming out of the White House. So they are now trying to explain some things that they've done, haven't done and that they've leaked. Trump White House scrambling now late in the day to quell another Epstein related uproar. Now there are reports that they're going to have this high level meeting tonight. You might have heard about this at the Vice President's residence, which itself is a bit unusual, although you could have meetings in any number of places in the evening with top staff. What's different though is that the Vice President now is trying to tamp down any expectations that this meeting is about Epstein or will lead to more Epstein action. He's denying that now. The reports called it a kind of abstine strategy dinner for the scandal that won't go away and to discuss if there is anything that they can release, including perhaps more information about the suspicious interviews conducted with Ghislaine Maxwell. This is what Vance just said.

[Kelly Ripa]

Gathering of top advisors this evening to talk about how to respond to the Epstein situation.

[Ari Melber]

I don't know. I could ask you that question. I don't know of it, but I think here's the man right Here I saw reported today and it's completely fake news. We're not meeting to talk about the Epstein situation. And I think the reporter reported it needs to get better sources. Look, the whole thing is a hoax. Donald Trump doing something very rare there, seating the microphone of course, because this is looking bad. So if by a bit of pre planned theater they have hung more of it on Vance and then he says, oh hey, why don't you answer? And then they both say fake news. And then you heard Trump at the end say this whole thing is a hoax. Well, this is a Magda story from the start. This is something Trump promised to do, release Epstein information, which he's not doing. So just like the way he used to badmouth crypto is a scam and now sells crypto, we are reminded of the inconsistencies. If it's a hoax, it's his hoax. But the underlying case is no hoax. Real people, real lives were ruined. Real victims of sex trafficking have been speaking out because of the secrecy and the mistakes clearly made by the Trump administration. Now even before you get to the history and I've told you in this story, while there is politics involved and there's a whole saga in Washington about it, we will continue to make sure that we are covering the victims families and the victims if and when they choose to speak out. And they're speaking out again today saying we understand the vice President again based on that reporting which you just heard him deny, but we understand he'll hold a strategy session with administration officials. Missing from this group is of course any survivor of the various crimes of convicted perjurer and sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. Their voices must be heard. Above all, they go on to say Maxwell should have remained in a maximum security prison and does not deserve the luxuries currently afforded her. A reference to one of the great hypocrisies about the so called MAGA Epstein justice movement, which is if it has done one tangible thing, it's not get more information or transparency or get to the bottom of what was a suspicious death in the custody of the Trump doj. No, the one actual real world change is better treatment and leniency for an Epstein sex trafficking conspirator. Washington Post reports. As for that leniency, that prison has comparatively comfortable accommodations. It's more like a campus. It's been described then a typical federal prison. Indeed, one report said it's quote the nation's most lenient lockup. Another warden said, quote, someone gave preference, special preference to Maxwell no other inmate currently in BoP is received. And it's a country club inmates, they have a sex offense are not going to a place like that, period. It's truly unheard of. Now, there's overnight reports that Maxwell, in those interviews and with all reporting, sometimes you ask, huh, who would leak this? Who would have the reason to leak this? And who's in control of her and those interviews? Well, according to ABC News reporting, she told DOJ Trump never did anything concerning around her. Now, I'll put the ABC piece to the side and add another point here. What is going on? When in a closed case where she's been convicted and her co conspirator is dead, why is she being interviewed about Donald Trump in the first place? Why is his name even coming up? The whole thing itself is suspicious. And back before Trump was trying to get out from under this scandal, remember there was an actual investigation. They already got all the information they could out of her. There is no legal or substantive reason we would expect new information to come out the line of questioning. And now the leaking is suspicious. Some say there could be a deal here. Now, I can only report for you what happened. I can tell you what's suspicious. I can tell you they already got information out of her before they convicted her. And I could tell you she's getting special treatment. Whether those were exchanged in a deal, we don't have the reporting on that yet. Trump, meanwhile, has dangled a pardon for her. Would you consider a pardon or a commutation for Ghislaine Maxwell? It's something I haven't thought about. It's really something recommended.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

It's something I'm allowed to do it.

[Ari Melber]

But it's something I have not thought about. I want to bring in our guests on something that Trump hasn't thought about but apparently can't rule out. We are joined by the Reverend Al Sharpton, host of Politics Nation on msnbc, founder of the National Action Network and Vandy Fairs. Molly Jong Fast and MSNBC analyst Molly. It sounds critical to just go in and list the sordid and unusual facts of what has occurred. No one in reporting has yet nailed a deal.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right.

[Ari Melber]

But we are seeing suspicious bricks in a wall that looks like Maxwell gave them stuff and now they're giving her stuff. Whether that was arranged, we can't say yet. But it doesn't look good.

[Kelly Ripa]

It doesn't look good. And remember, this whole thing is, it's sort of, it doesn't look good. Like every part of it doesn't look good. And every time Trump does more, he makes it worse.

[Ari Melber]

Right.

[Kelly Ripa]

Like he talks about it, he brings attention to it there. Every piece of reporting. Remember the reporting that the FBI had people go through and redact the names, including Trump's name. Like, these are just very suspect. These are things that seem very suspicious. And we haven't, you know, we haven't been able to thread the needle. But in a case like this, where there's so much attention and there's so much interest to release, more and more bits of it will just continue. And remember, I think what's important about this case is that it is something that gets the maga. The MAGA base is super interested in. It's not necessarily a mainstream media obsession the way that other things Trump has. Has been involved in have been.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. Reverend Sharpton, I really want to go to the politics with you. You're known for more than one thing. You care a lot about civil rights. I want to ask you about that coming up. But, you know, politics. I've seen you maneuver with people in both parties. I've seen you counsel people who have scandals that look like a lot less than this. How do you rate the way they're handling this? And what do you think of what we just heard? The president, the vice president, responding to their own sort of leaks. Only they know where they're meeting and who they're meeting with and dragging out what has been their secretive approach to this sex trafficking scandal.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I think that at best, I'd rank them as amateurs because they're making very big mistakes. One, to have the number two man in justice go down and talk to a woman convicted and. And then all of a sudden, she magically leaves a jail and goes to what some have said is like a club. It just. Amateurs do that. To talk about a podcast and leave it open. Well, you're the lawyer. But pardon based on what? She's already been sentenced. She's been sentenced before you were there. So what would be the basis of you saying she's been sentenced too long when she's been already doing the 20 years? What would be the basis of a pardon other than some quid pro quo for whatever reasons we don't know? I think that they have brought more suspicion on themselves because of the amateurist way they've handled this.

[Ari Melber]

So I'm not minimizing the issues, and we've been covering and I've had experts on about the victims, but I will make a Looney Tunes analogy, which is on other scandals, Donald Trump has been Wile E. Coyote. We have Seen, his critics and Democrats say they think they got him. And he always gets away. Why do you think on this one, he suddenly is sitting in this for weeks on end with his base in uproar.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Because this time it's not his critics getting him or his opposition getting him. He's getting himself. He's. You know, there is a friend of mine that always says a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut. And he keeps talking himself back into this. And if he had just.

[Ari Melber]

If I may, another friend of yours used to say, say that some people talk a lot but say nothing.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Quote was saying, talking loud and saying nothing.

[Ari Melber]

Talking loud and saying nothing. See, this is the thing. Sometimes people just listen to the lyrics. Rev says, no, I knew James Brown. Let me fix it. Go ahead, sir.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

No, but my point is, he has talked himself back into it. If they had not had to move with the deputy attorney general, if they had not had to move with Trump talking about this on a daily basis and denying it, it would have died that week. He keeps bringing it back, which also makes a lot of people feel that he can't let it go for a reason. Now, I don't know what he did.

[Ari Melber]

We don't know. But it looks bad.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

But it looks bad. Yeah, it looks bad because you complaining too much, you're spending too much, and now you're going to have a meeting at the vice president's house.

[Ari Melber]

And.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

And it's the attorney general and FBI, everybody that will be involved. But you're not talking about that. But then why did somebody leak that you have in the media?

[Ari Melber]

Yeah.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

What are you meeting about exactly? I mean, it's just amateur moves.

[Ari Melber]

All right, Molly, maybe I'll do another James Brown.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yes.

[Ari Melber]

And maybe you can get involved. You ready?

[Kelly Ripa]

Yes.

[Ari Melber]

Okay. Don't give it away.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

All right.

[Ari Melber]

I don't know karate.

[Kelly Ripa]

What? This is not prepared for this. I'm sorry.

[Ari Melber]

There it is.

[Kelly Ripa]

I apologize.

[Ari Melber]

Classic.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Don't apologize. He's just an expert.

[Kelly Ripa]

The polling.

[Ari Melber]

Wait, I'm going to show you polling. It's funny you said that. We're on the same page. UMass Poll. People are talking about this around the country. It's summer, a lot of things going on. People are talking about this. And there's a clear view when you say who's hiding the info. It's not federal bureaucrats, it's not the speaker. Although some think that it's not the Trump officials who've been blamed, although Bondi does catch 59%. But far and away, this means to be clear, Molly, 81% is over half of the people who voted for Trump statistically, also think he's hiding it.

[Kelly Ripa]

And if you pull the pardon, if you pull him pardoning Ghislaine, it's like it's very hard to get Americans to agree on things, but they all agree that he should not pardon her. So he has really backed himself into a sticky wicket here. Right. Because Ghislaine now has this sort of spotlight. She can talk more. If he pardons her, it's bad for him. I mean, you just see. And the other thing that I think is so interesting that reminds me of Trump 1.0 is that you have leakers. You're starting to have a lot of leakers. And that was the thing that really unhinged Trump 1.0.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And you could see that with Trump and Vance, maybe. As I've told viewers, we're watching this sort of what Rev called an amateur attempt to parcel out coming information. Oh, we're gonna have a big meeting and we're hearing about it and then, oh, you're gonna get some transcripts and, oh, lo and behold, some of them, according to abc, might say things that involve Trump not being guilty of sex crimes. That's all Maxwell can tell you.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right.

[Ari Melber]

Were you involved in a sex crime ring or not? The answer is no. Good. Fine. Hopefully that is where you are. That's not a win.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right.

[Ari Melber]

But. But is it that? Or as you say, are there other people leaking because they're so concerned about this? And you go ahead and the more.

[Kelly Ripa]

Attention this gets, the more he loses. So even if her just saying he did nothing wrong and then moving to a better prison is kind of a lose for him.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. I mentioned to viewers that we're covering this and it's a huge deal, but there's a lot of other important stuff. You're coming back for something really interesting later. Rev is here. In 90 seconds, we're going to get into these fundamental rights issues that I know you wanted to spotlight. So Rev sticks around for that. By the end of the hour, acclaimed director James Cameron on how Donald Trump in this era. I'm going to ask him about environmental regulations under fire. What do we do as a country when we look at these climate problems and what he says about Titanic as a political message? All that's coming up. But first, the Rev. Back with me in 90 seconds. Finding the music you love shouldn't be hard. That's why Pandora makes it easy to explore all your favorites and discover new artists and genres you'll love. Enjoy a personalized listening experience simply by selecting any song or album, and we'll make a station crafted just for you. Best of all, you can listen for free, download Pandora on the Apple App Store or Google Play and start hearing the soundtrack to your life. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast Summer's Heating up and so is the action with chumba casino and 2311 racing. Whether you're trackside with Bubba, Riley and Tyler or cooling off at home, the fun never stops at Chumba Casino, the online social casino packed with free to play games like slots, blackjack and more. Jump into [e-mail] and score your free welcome bonus 2 million free gold coins and 2 free sweeps coins. No purchase necessary. VGW group Void where prohibited by law. CTNC is 21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

To say that blacks were 3/5 of a human. What do you mean? Gays and lesbians, human or not?

[Ari Melber]

Of course they're human. Why can't they have the same Reverend Al Sharpton, are they human or not? One of the many lines we remember from his time directly in politics there on the debate stage, we look at that because you're writing here in a new piece 60 years after the Voting Rights act, you say our voices are eroded. Looking at the attacks on democracy around the country. Tell us about this.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

When we look at the fact that everything that was fought for out of the 60s, from the voting Rights Bill, which is the anniversary today of when Lyndon Johnson as president signed it, to where there's been not only a retrenchment but hostility of LGBTQ rights, which I talked about there in that presidential Democratic primary debate. When we look at women's rights and looking at where we even talking about banning books, I mean, we could not have imagined as much as we were fighting 20 years ago that any of this was possible. And it's not only possible, it's happening. And in the middle of this all, as we should be celebrating the 60th anniversary of the signing of the Voting Rights act today, we have legislators from Texas having to leave home and their Families to stop a quorum, to redraw the district lines that would deny black and brown representation in the Congress.

[Ari Melber]

Right. You're putting your finger right on that. Now, look, some people might just be full of hate, might be bigots. Other people, though, were just incorrect. There were people like Chief Justice Roberts who said, we used to need these rules because politicians were playing games with voting, and we don't need these rules anymore because that's not happening. That was the logic, as you know, in Shelby v. Holder. We all lived through it and covered it. Well, what does Texas show us about not whether John Roberts has any discrimination in his heart? I don't have any reason to think from his record that he does, but that the premise of that ruling has been proven wrong.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

No, absolutely. And if Judge Roberts, if this comes back to them with the Louisiana case, now that they are going to deal with Section two of having to deal with whether race can even be a factor, he'd have to say, the data shows that I was wrong. If he's as fair as we all are, giving him the opportunity to show, because the data shows what it is. And if you look at it across the board, this is what this administration has shown. They came in saying, we're going after diversity, equity, and inclusion. Look at the data. Just last week's jobs report, black unemployment went up to 7.2%. Well, I thought if you deported people, they were taking out black jobs, it should have gone down. What happened to my black job? So, I mean, I think that in any way you want to cut it, there's been a retrenching of black and other women, gays, other rights, which is why people need to be organizing as they have been and as we are doing now to fight back. I think there's no other way because I think Donald Trump has shown exactly the kind of America that he wants to try to bring back.

[Ari Melber]

Right. And we have never had a great experience trusting politicians to regulate themselves. That's a nonpartisan point. So as you say, it puts a lot of pressure back on the courts if they're honest about. Okay, you tried. You tried pulling up the rules in the South. How's that going? Reverend Sharpton, on more than one topic. Good to see you, sir.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Good to be with you.

[Ari Melber]

Appreciate it. And be sure to check out Politics Nation, of course. Weekends, 5pm Eastern on MSNBC. By the end of the hour tonight, the odds morning director James Cameron is. And the Epstein uproar is threatening to Trump in ways that you've heard about. But we're going to show you why there's a meltdown. Plus this. Look at that meltdown. We're all on stage demanding the release of the Epstein client list.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Trump has put his terrorists all over the place. I've been trying to understand him.

[Ari Melber]

I don't. It's very upsetting. It's extremely upsetting. Welcome back. Donald Trump is having by far the worst month of his second term. And also when it comes to what Reverend Sharpton was just talking about, the way that his own base's anger at him has dragged down his agenda in a fundamentally different way than years past. It's also one of the worst months we've seen since he's ever been president. Both terms we can measure that. And that's what makes this a more politically dangerous moment. And I'm going to show you exactly why. We have these prominent MAGA voices. Some are in the Republican Party, some are on Fox News. But more than ever before and the first term, which was many light years ago, in terms of technology, we have more independent voices online, which means they're less beholden to some of these other things. That's true regardless of ideology. And so it goes beyond Epstein. In the past weeks and months, some of those voices who are MAGA and voted for Trump and have audiences that they've said are very Trumpified are not just criticizing this or that policy. They're using that same smashing rhetoric that Trump and MAGA folks tend to use against him. He doesn't like how the medicine tastes, but this could be something that's a fundamentally different dynamic than the first term. And I know it's summer and some people say, hey, well, just going through the motions of politics here and it all blends together or it feels the same. But if you care about the facts as we do, we have to understand what's going on. That's what journalists and authors and political scientists try to do. Something different is happening, and I'm going to show you in this report right now why it's bigger than Epstein, why it includes tariffs and even some of the overreach on immigration, according to libertarians who do want to lower immigration but say Trump is already doing it the wrong way. This is from the Beat, the special. Look at that accumulated bile from these MAGA voices.

[Kelly Ripa]

Make some noise. If you care about the Jeffrey Epstein scandal.

[Ari Melber]

We're all on stage demanding the release of the Epstein client list. It is Trump and it is his.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Advisors that have gone with this narrative.

[Ari Melber]

Of them just saying, forget about it, move along. It's the Way they've handled the scandal.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Has been so bad, you know, leading.

[Ari Melber]

Everybody up to the water's edge and then not giving anyone a drink.

[Kelly Ripa]

Completely agree.

[Ari Melber]

This is self inflicted.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Trump has put his tariffs all over the place. I've been trying to understand them.

[Ari Melber]

I don't. His giant tariff policy that he just dropped on the market unilaterally, probably unconstitutionally. We're getting flooded with thousands, hundreds of thousands of comments that are very unhappy about this. President Trump was elected primarily to go after the deep state. We want to go after the deep state.

[Kelly Ripa]

It seems like you think your base is stupid. That's how I feel. I feel like Trump thinks his base is stupid.

[Ari Melber]

Then they're kicking students out that like write articles they don't like. Yeah, that's nuts. Crazy. Yeah. Isn't a university supposed to be a place where someone's allowed to express themselves and have non. Violently. Yeah.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Deporting people because you don't like who they're criticizing? Like, that gets kind of shifty.

[Ari Melber]

You got to get scared that people who are not criminals are getting like lassoed up and deported. It's horrific.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I don't know how many of you.

[Ari Melber]

Guys are invested in crypto or stocks. What the is going on with our country, guys? Why am I poor? Everything's in the.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Because of it.

[Ari Melber]

I'm down 7 million bucks in stocks and crypto. Maybe don't be on the golf course. Three times I voted for this man. This is by far the biggest fumble of the administration they've had thus far. It's indefensible. It's indefensible that the answers aren't there when so much was promised. The current DOJ under Pam Bondi is covering up crimes, very serious crimes.

[Kelly Ripa]

Her days are numbered as a member of the Trump administration.

[Ari Melber]

Pam Bondi needs to go. At a minimum, Pam Bondi needs to be fired. Who is rolling this out? The little rascals. It's very upsetting. It's extremely upsetting. There is something there and it's being.

[Kelly Ripa]

Covered up and the president blessed it. We have flight logs, we have information, names that will come out.

[Ari Melber]

Don't tell us all this stuff's coming out.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

And the investigation's massive and the Trump.

[Ari Melber]

Wants it released and then say, oh, there's nothing there. This stinks. This, this just reeks.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

So I'm gonna go throw up actually.

[Ari Melber]

That is so crazy. This is like the. This is honestly one of the craziest things I've ever seen in my entire life.

[Kelly Ripa]

This seems like unforgivable behavior, something like that.

[Ari Melber]

So I don't want a revolution, but if you wanted a revolution, this is how you would act. That was two and a half minutes taken from hours and hours, and not all of it was at that pitch. Our beat producers work hard to show you the crisp, key moments, but that's what's happening. Conservative media, we watch what's happening in our country. And there's the government and the politics of it. There's people, but then there's this middle space of media. I know, yes, I'm also in the media, what they sometimes call the traditional journalism media. But this matters. And this has shifted a lot over the last four years, let alone eight. If you go back to when Trump was first inaugurated, it is a different economic environment for the podcasters and a different information environment for the people. And those are a ton of bag of voices. And what starts with one issue I showed you, people didn't like their stocks tanking and they told their listeners about it. And then opens up space for other issues. Joe Rogan saying he doesn't want a country where speech is censored, especially after Trump and Musk spent all of last year claiming they would do the opposite. And now they've broken those pledges on campus law firms, you name it. And then third, this Epstein thing, which could become the inflection point. And this is what historians and political scientists study. It's not always clear in advance or during, but over time, sometimes you have a breakage. George W. Bush got reelected just like Trump did, serves two terms and held on through all kinds of scandals. But if you remember Hurricane Katrina, that was the breaking point. A president looking out the window at devastation, overseeing an administration that failed on the ground and then misled or lied about it throughout and the country, including conservatives, said enough. And he never really came back from it. It was his second term, but it marked the beginning of the political end of George W. Bush, as you might recall, who's not popular on the left, the center, or on foreign policy issues on the right. Because what Katrina exploded opened up a dialogue about real facts and failures that he could never come back from. Now is Epstein that inflection point? I'll be honest with you. We don't know. We work hard here. We try to bring you the news, we check the sources and the evidence. We don't have crystal ball ability to look into the future, but you can bet everyone around Donald Trump, and he has some political heavy hitters and experts, they know the Katrina history. They know that he has dodged Other scandals, but this one feels different. And if it breaks, it could be a very different second term. We're fit in a break. When we come back, the heat on Florida Republicans for gutting school lunches. And guess who's coming back. Like me.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

You protest where you live.

[Ari Melber]

This is New York City.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I'm gonna go here and I'm gonna cover the protest.

[Ari Melber]

Don Lemon is coming up tonight on the Beat. We have a very special citrus edition of Fallback. Joining me are our two special guests. Fallback debut here by Emmy winning journalist Don Lemon. He's been reporting on some of the biggest stories for decades of across many elite platforms.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

You should have said zesty segment.

[Ari Melber]

Zesty. Many New Yorkers are not changing their.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Routines despite the latest terror warnings.

[Ari Melber]

More snow falling here.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Horse lovers nationwide have put up more than $100,000.

[Ari Melber]

Are you racist? I'm the least racist person that you have ever met.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

What are you talking about? Oh, cookies. And pretty much cookies.

[Ari Melber]

The flames are pouring out of this building. From the serious to the Sesame street to the fun. That's Don Lemon. You can catch the Don Lemon show online. He's out with a new memoir. I Once Was My Search for God in America. And another memoir is Vanity Affairs. Molly Jong Fast is here. She does the Fast politics podcast. Yes. How to Lose youe Mother is her memoir and a New York Times bestseller. Welcome to both of you.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Thank you very much.

[Ari Melber]

You guys look great together. Dark.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Thank you.

[Kelly Ripa]

We really like each other.

[Ari Melber]

It's nice seeing you back in the day. I know.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Was that from NBC's that footage?

[Ari Melber]

Some of that's today's show. Yeah.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

You know, I don't have any of that.

[Ari Melber]

I would love to get. It's in the archives. Go in the archives and get some of that. I was looking going get some of that story, but holy cow. I was 12 years old and look at you now.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I know.

[Ari Melber]

As they say, Molly, look at me now. Look at me now. I'm getting paper. That's how. That's what they say. Dawn.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Ari, you're not playing.

[Ari Melber]

This is Dawn's go to. What is on your fallback list?

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Fallback list for me is Charlie Kirk telling a student that she should go to college to get it. I think it's a Mrs. Degree and not to try to get it. It's like, can we just get rid of. I don't ever want to hear from Charlie Kirk again.

[Ari Melber]

Okay. Yeah.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

So, you know, especially with advice like that and also because you know what he said on Juneteenth, right. I'M going to work. Nobody should be celebrating this.

[Ari Melber]

So Charlie Kirk, do you think he has beliefs or is just trolling for clicks?

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I don't think he has much going on up there. I think it's probably trolling for click. Yeah, I think most people, when they say stupid. Can I say stuff?

[Ari Melber]

Speak your mind.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Stupid like that. They know better. This is clicks.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. Yeah. Molly, what's on your fallback list?

[Kelly Ripa]

My fallback is Broward county no longer giving free public school lunches. Now raising the prices. Look, this is one of these things Tim Walls, my buddy, governor of Minnesota, got on the map for his free lunches for kids. All kids, rich kids, poor kids. Because the thing is, getting a free lunch will make you feel different than the other kids. And so we should. We are a very rich country with a lot of resources. We should be feeding our children lunch.

[Ari Melber]

And breakf straight up destigmatize it. And it's not that expensive.

[Kelly Ripa]

It's not that expensive.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, yeah. What else is on your fallback list, Don?

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

This is so weird. But, but like guys falling in love with AI bots and treating them, you know, or you know, even their AI on their phone and treating them as if it's like they're, you know, in love with someone, having a partner and a two year old daughter and a girlfriend and all that, whatever. It's just really bizarre. This guy's proposing to an AI girlfriend.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. Is this really happening? Is kind of how you feel.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

It is happening. But I mean, what do you get from that? Except it's a voice on a phone.

[Ari Melber]

Like, I mean, you know, weird, you know, in humor. Yeah.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I mean, yeah, kind of. I mean, it's very freaky. Look, I'm not, I. Look, I am not kink shaming anybody.

[Ari Melber]

Sure.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

But this is, this is beyond the kink.

[Ari Melber]

Well, it goes to. It go dawn. It goes to where society's heading. Right. And there are in human relationships, people sometimes do mirroring. Right. I know that you like. What's so funny? That wasn't even the funny part.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

What is this, some weird kind of.

[Ari Melber]

No, mirroring is. I know you like lemon puns, which I do.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah.

[Ari Melber]

And I run into you and I say, it's not just lemon drops. What about lemon bars? And you say, oh, that's cute. Cause I'm engaging with people. Do some mirroring. But there's a back and forth human. I still look in your eyes. We're still people.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Yeah.

[Ari Melber]

A robot that has no actual human soul.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Yeah.

[Ari Melber]

That mirrors everything. They call it glazing sometimes these AIs, they tell you what you want to hear. You can see why that's superficially appealing. But it's not just that you're not in a human relationship. It distorts your sense of how interactions should be. You shouldn't be mirrored all the time.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I like being mirrored.

[Ari Melber]

I know.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Glazed. I mean, I'm saying.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Yeah, you're. I'll just say that you're right about that. But at the end of the day, I just. I think that we need more human touch and companionship and company. We need to put these things down.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

And go. Go out to a bar, do something crazy. Embarrass yourself in front of someone that you find cute or beautiful or whatever, and just be. Just be weird and be human. Because then otherwise, you're weird and not human, and you start proposing to AI Bond and Molly.

[Ari Melber]

Some of this comes back to politics and policy.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yes.

[Ari Melber]

Whether there are rules. So right now, it's harder to make fake money than a fake person. You get in trouble. You can't just launch a company and say, we're printing alternative dollar bills. That's illegal. But we haven't caught up in Congress or the rules with this. You might say this should be illegal for anyone who's a minor. You might say a bot that's designed to take advantage of you should be regulated. Like, this shouldn't just be Wild west of AI Love.

[Kelly Ripa]

Ari Melbourne with my favorite free lover. This is my favorite, favorite, favorite thing to talk about, which is Congress does not regulate, and they have just dropped the ball on any regulation. They never regulated Facebook. They don't regulate the Internet. They don't regulate technology. We are heading towards a disaster.

[Ari Melber]

Our job in the news, we cover what's happening. It's harder to cover what's not happening. That's not typically how you build a news story. And yet we got more rules for trains than AI. That's what's not happening. And we may all live to regret it before we get out of here. We love having you here, Dawn. You get. You brought something. What do you got?

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I thought you were gonna.

[Ari Melber]

You guys get lighters. Both of you take a lighter.

[Kelly Ripa]

I don't have any of these.

[Ari Melber]

Shameless.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I need more Shameless.

[Ari Melber]

Shameless. Plug.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

This is for the Don Lemon Show.

[Kelly Ripa]

Wait, what is.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

This is for Ari. Ari.

[Ari Melber]

Okay.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

So, Ari, I got this for you because you need a better mug.

[Ari Melber]

Okay. All right.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Is your gift. Do you wear baseball caps?

[Ari Melber]

Sure. So you got to wear it if I give it to you. Well, Let me see it first. Lemon Nation. That's what I'm telling. Remember what I said? He loves any. It doesn't have to be a lemon pun at a certain point. It's just the word lemon with other words. What was it? If you had a last name Lemon, what would you.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Wouldn't you make the most of it?

[Ari Melber]

A young, a young Joe Biden back when he was in his late 60s. Yes. Said with Giuliani. Every sentence is a noun verb in 9, 11. Yeah. And so it is with Lemon. Love you guys. Thanks for coming through.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I love you, buddy. Good to see you.

[Ari Melber]

And then we turn to James Cameron and environmental. The fantasy footballers are on Sirius xm. It's about time you won your league. And we're here to help. Becoming a fantasy football champion begins now. And the biggest fantasy football podcast has the insight you need. Listen to the fantasy Footballers podcast right now on the Sirius XM app. Fantasy football is fun. Winning is even more fun. And our listeners do both. Listen to the fantasy Footballers podcast right now on the SiriusXM app. Just search fantasy footballers. You know who's surprisingly good with money? Greenlight kids. The other day, mine stopped to think about the ROI on a bag of chips.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Seriously.

[Ari Melber]

From getting paid for doing chores around the house to saving up for concerts. Greenlight's teaching my kids how to handle their money. Greenlight your kids financial future with the number one family finance and safety app. Try Greenlight risk [e-mail] podcast. Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Reddick. You know what's more nerve wracking than waiting for qualifying results? Waiting for the green flag to drop. Instead of pacing, you rev up with Chumba Casino's weekly new releases. It's like a fresh set of tires for your brain. Play for [e-mail] let's Chumba. No purchase necessary. VGW Group voidware prohibited by law. CTC's 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino. As I'm next. We're the king of the world. We're the world. President Trump trying to gut the key rules that combat climate pollution. Pushing to claim that environmental agencies no longer have to regulate gas emissions. A move designed to derail all limits on climate pollution. Politico reports, puts Trump out of step with most people who think the US isn't doing enough to protect the environment. And from politics to art, messages about protecting earth actually prove popular. One of the most popular film series ever, Avatar, touts the environmentalist heroes fighting those who would destroy nature. The next Avatar installment actually comes out later this year, directed, of course, by the Oscar winner James Cameron, whose films explore environmentalism, colonialism, and classic themes of nature versus humanity. The filmmaker is versed, of course, in the storytelling arts as well as science, AI and scientific and environmental exploration, helping design the deep Sea Challenger and even piloting a submersible solo to the deepest known point of the ocean. He is our summit series guest right now. And we begin with that natural world you focused on, the green issues, our environment, animals, the later avatars, really making us understand, well, what are animals? If they have many of the attributes we associate with value, then how do we value them or not? And then the risks of supposed progress. Multiple films that look at technology, which we're told will be good, and how it can run amok. AI and the science and technology of weaponry. So do you feel, In a way, Mr. Cameron, like you're circling always those issues, or is this project somehow fundamentally different? Partly because it deals with real history?

[James Cameron]

I think it's a way of expressing my angst around these issues in a different way. Even Titanic looked at through my personal lens as about us putting our faith in technology, our hubris and arrogance, and thinking that we can dominate nature. Even Titanic, to me, in my mind, it was a metaphor for climate change. We see it in front of us and we can't turn in time. Just the way they saw an iceberg couldn't turn in time. So I'm always circling these same themes, just expressing them in different ways.

[Ari Melber]

I want to turn on the positive side to the unique, beloved Avatar series. And we're going to show briefly just some of the highlights in the culture. Take a look.

[Kelly Ripa]

The Way of Water has no beginning and no end.

[Ari Melber]

The Golden Globe goes to Mr. James Cameron for Abaco. As Avatar beats the Titanic at the box office, it's a case of director James Cameron topping himself. And the Oscar goes to Avatar, the Way of Water. Do you feel like Avatar is exciting because it's fantasy and it's about something else? Or do you feel it's connected in this deep way because ultimately it's about us and we see ourselves in our human earth problems. Go ahead.

[James Cameron]

Absolutely. I think, you know, I mean, I think the new film isn't quite as simple as the previous films. I mean, for me, even though it's escapism and I think a lot of people are attracted to it because it transports them to another world, away from their daily problems, it's also very much about the environment and warfare and hatred and trauma and all the things that we deal with it's just science fiction gives you a lens that softens it a bit.

[Ari Melber]

Why do you think that sometimes art shows us more of the future than other mediums? What Kubrick or you did in Earl in your early films, now we're here with AI and it's. It's uncanny. And others have commented on this, and it's. It's almost. Is it the power of your imagination? Or. Why do you think that through the fictional process, you. You show us what's. What might be coming?

[James Cameron]

Arthur Clark, a famous science fiction writer, predicted the geosynchronous telecommunications satellite, I think, 20 or 30 years before it existed, because of his imagination. But his imagination was informed by science. I've spent my life reading and enjoying science fiction, but I also study science. I work with a lot of scientists and so on. I have a deep respect for science. I love to learn. I'm very curious. So to me, I think it's about imagination, putting together pie that are there, where facts and data are known in ways that other people don't.

[Ari Melber]

In a word or a sense, the greatest threat to the Earth right now.

[James Cameron]

Is the human race.

[Ari Melber]

Hiroshima matters today because we need to.

[James Cameron]

Remember the lesson of history if we're going to survive the next round of history.

[Ari Melber]

The problem with rapid technological change is, oh, my God.

[James Cameron]

I think the pace and the uncertainty and who's developing it and what reasons.

[Ari Melber]

And a final three. Given that you've inspired so many and there are people who go into filmmaking and storytelling, thinking about the worlds you've created is why we're thinking about these three. Failure to you means.

[James Cameron]

I don't know, it's never happened.

[Ari Melber]

There we go. All right. Nailed it.

[James Cameron]

Success to you means success to me is communicating as an artist what I have in my mind and imagination to other people. Doing that successfully for myself, to my satisfaction.

[Ari Melber]

And reaching the summit means set a.

[James Cameron]

Goal that's so high you can never achieve it, so that you fail above everybody else.

[Ari Melber]

James Cameron, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a real treat for us.

[James Cameron]

It's been good. I really enjoyed it. Thanks, Hari.

[Ari Melber]

Some real wisdom there. We enjoyed it, too. You can see that and our other Summit [e-mail] summit we'll be right back. If you're in New York this fall, would you like to meet Rachel Maddow in person? You can. MSNBC is holding an MSNBC live in Manhattan. This is footage from the first one we did. The link on your screen will take you to get tickets in October. You are watching Lawrence o' Donnell sort of half twists and turn, Rachel Matta or vice versa in a dance move. I actually was in the room and I remember that charming moment. That's what it looks like. You can see the audience of MSNBC viewers there. Honestly, we had a great time. Andrew Weissman joined me for a special conversation about law and justice in these troubled times. And so in October, we're bringing it back and it's the first time we're doing it in Manhattan. MSNBC Live 25, October 11th at the Hammerstein Ballroom. Great concert venue. You can see just about every anchor you could think of. Daytime, nighttime, weekend, we're all going to be there and more. So go to that link msnbc.com live25 if you want to get tickets for October before they sell out. And if you're too far away, I get it. But maybe you know someone in New York and you want to tell them about it or even gift them a ticket if that's in your wheelhouse. And if it's not for you, that's totally fine. We will be here every day and night covering the news with you as we go forward. Thanks for watching the Beat. Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy Live and Uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen. You can listen to Jeff Lewis Live.

[Kelly Ripa]

At home or anywhere you are. Download the SiriusXM app for over 425.

[Ari Melber]

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[Kelly Ripa]

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[Ari Melber]

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