FBI Searches WaPo Reporter's Home Amid Classified Docs Probe

Summary

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The Beat with Ari Melber

Episode Summary: “FBI Searches WaPo Reporter’s Home Amid Classified Docs Probe”

Date: January 15, 2026
Host: Ari Melber
Guests: Andrew Weissman, David Rothkopf, Jacob Soboroff

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Overview

This episode tackles the widening use of government power under President Trump’s administration, focusing on the unprecedented FBI search of a Washington Post reporter’s home amid a classified documents probe. Ari Melber explores the legal, constitutional, and political implications of this search and situates it among a larger pattern of alleged retaliation and intimidation, both against journalists and government officials. He is joined by legal expert Andrew Weissman who analyzes the DOJ’s tactics, David Rothkopf who provides geopolitical context, and Jacob Soboroff who reports on escalating federal enforcement on the ground.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. FBI Raid on Washington Post Reporter

[01:00]

• The FBI executed a search warrant at a WaPo journalist’s home, seizing devices while insisting she is not the target—rather, a government contractor is accused of retaining classified documents.
• There is concern about the criminal complaint’s scope, as it does not accuse the contractor of leaking, nor establishes the reporter as a suspect.
• The action is widely seen as “extraordinary and aggressive,” breaking with decades of policy meant to protect journalists from such searches (Reference: 1980 law banning reporter searches unless they're suspects).
• Quote:
  “It is also worth noting the complaint, which may be partial, may only be the start of the story. But the complaint itself does not accuse that contractor of leaking classified information.” — Ari Melber [02:11]

2. Chilling Effect and Weaponization of DOJ

[02:50]

• The Trump DOJ, led by Attorney General Bondi, has diluted press protections and ramped up actions viewed as political retaliation.
• Journalists and lawmakers are increasingly being surveilled or probed, often in connection to actions or speech protected by the Constitution (e.g., the speech and debate clause).
• Democratic lawmakers like Lisa Slotkin and Chrissy Houlihan report being targeted for statements “about the military following the law.”
• Quote:
  “Slotkin is objecting to Trump's playbook, saying this is intimidation and physical intimidation meant to shut people up.” — Ari Melber [04:37]

3. Selective Prosecution and Intimidation of Public Officials

[05:15]

• The administration has launched investigations into a growing list of officials, including the Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, Democratic lawmakers, and military veterans like Senator Mark Kelly, often on thin grounds.
• Legal challenges and lawsuits are mounting to push back against what’s seen as retaliatory action.
• Quote:
  “It looks like the Trump administration is treating [military service] as a kind of a minus, as a way to get leverage over [Sen. Mark Kelly] and now endangering his military rank.” — Ari Melber [06:56]

4. Trump’s Public Rationale and Broader Press Relations

[07:40]

• Trump claims his actions are guided by his “high moral grade of morality,” not legal or constitutional checks.
• Melber notes a shift in Trump’s media strategy to distract from other setbacks (e.g., Venezuela operation, Epstein scandal).
• Quote:
  "It's limited by my morality and I have a very high moral grade of morality. So therefore, it's limited." — Donald Trump (via CBS interview) [07:40]

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5. Expert/legal Analysis: Andrew Weissman

Starts: [10:27]

On DOJ Tactics and Reporter’s Rights

• Weissman (Mueller team alumnus, ex-FBI counsel) criticizes the administration for skipping standard process (no subpoena, negotiation) and instead leaping to search warrants, calling it a “real attack on the so-called fourth estate.”
• This break from precedent is seen as an overt attack on press freedom.

On Broader Selective Enforcement

• Patterns of weaponization: Hard prosecution only for figures not aligned with Trump, while ignoring misconduct by allies.
• Quote:
  “You really are seeing the sort of true weaponization of the department by this administration.” — Andrew Weissman [12:42]

Accountability & Barriers

• DOJ leadership faces little immediate accountability. Potential consequences range from professional sanctions to criminal charges (unlikely without provable intent), but pardons by the president loom as an impediment to lasting repercussions.

Courts’ Role and Limitations

[19:02]

• Judges are losing faith in "presumption of regularity" for government action, with many reporting repeated dishonesty from DOJ lawyers.
• In targeting journalists, legal recourse is more limited—current policy is the primary protection, not strong legal barriers.
• Quote:
  “There’s limited authority for what the courts can do there. This really is a question of Department of Justice policy.” — Andrew Weissman [20:50]

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6. Foreign Policy Escalations: Greenland & NATO

[22:41]

• Trump’s interest in forcibly controlling Greenland—over Danish and Greenlandic objections—draws international concern and further strains global alliances.
• David Rothkopf analyzes this as both “wag the dog” distraction, and a destabilizing move against NATO, playing into Russia’s hands.
• Quote:
  “There is no Russian or Chinese threat, as he says; there is no national security interest to do this. So it has to either address this idiosyncrasy in his personality or... this would blow up NATO.” — David Rothkopf [24:56]

Broader Impact on Geopolitics

• Undermining NATO and post-9/11 alliances weakens the U.S. position and emboldens rivals like Putin, with ripple effects for Ukraine, Georgia, and beyond.
• Quote:
  “NATO is the single greatest factor containing Putin's expansionist impulses… Without the United States involved or with NATO in this kind of a conflict, this opens an opportunity for Putin.” — David Rothkopf [28:07]

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7. Federal Enforcement: From Immigration to Domestic Protest

[29:23]

• Aggressive ICE and federal agent activity has escalated: fatal shootings, attacks on protesters, and tactics that extend well beyond unauthorized immigration enforcement.
• Videos surface of citizens being menaced, their property seized, and, in cases, deadly force employed against legal residents.

Reporting from the Ground: Jacob Soboroff

[33:26]

• Soboroff describes an increase in “heavy-handed” federal tactics, likening recent episodes to last summer’s protests—militarized, out-of-control, and deliberately provocative.
• Law enforcement’s behavior is widely condemned even by voters on the political right who “didn’t ask for this.”
• Quote:
  “Even if they voted for Donald Trump and even if they wanted the largest mass deportation program in American history, part of that was not American citizens being harassed by these same law enforcement officers on the streets, their own freedoms being taken away.” — Jacob Soboroff [36:00]

Pretext to Martial Law

• Democratic governors, per Soboroff’s reporting, fear the government aims to provoke unrest as a pretext for invoking the Insurrection Act and deploying the military domestically.

Fires and Immigration

• Soboroff’s book “Firestorm” draws parallels between wildfires and immigration raids, showing how harsh policy impedes disaster recovery and reveals underlying societal fissures.
• Quote:
  “How do you recover from one of the largest natural disasters in American history?... You can't do it with immigration policies like the ones this administration is putting forward right now.” — Jacob Soboroff [38:43]

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8. Revelations from Secret Grand Jury Testimony

[38:55]–[41:44]

• New transcripts show key Republicans—including Lindsey Graham—privately rejected Trump’s fake elector schemes as “the craziest thing” and “weird.”

• Melber observes Graham’s shifting public stances—once seeing Trump as a threat, now supporting him in power.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “I've told Trump more times than we can count that he fell short on that election. He said Trump's plan to enlist these fake electors was weird. I just don't want to tell you, just weird.” — Lindsey Graham (grand jury testimony) [40:36]
  • “I think he's a kook. I think he's crazy. I think he's unfit for office.” — Lindsey Graham (archival) [41:27]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “It is also worth noting the complaint… does not accuse that contractor of leaking classified information.” — Ari Melber [02:11]
• “It looks like the Trump administration is treating [military service] as a kind of a minus…” — Ari Melber [06:56]
• “It's limited by my morality and I have a very high moral grade of morality.” — Donald Trump [07:40]
• “You really are seeing the sort of true weaponization of the department by this administration.” — Andrew Weissman [12:42]
• “There’s limited authority for what the courts can do there… This really is a question of Department of Justice policy.” — Andrew Weissman [20:50]
• “There is no Russian or Chinese threat, as he says; there is no national security interest to do this.” — David Rothkopf [24:56]
• “Even if they voted for Donald Trump… part of that was not American citizens being harassed by these same law enforcement officers…” — Jacob Soboroff [36:00]
• "I've told Trump more times than we can count that he fell short on that election." — Lindsey Graham (GJ testimony) [40:36]
• “I think he's a kook. I think he's crazy. I think he's unfit for office.” — Lindsey Graham (archival) [41:27]

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Segment Timestamps Overview

• FBI/DOJ & Press Suppression: [01:00]–[07:40]
• Legal Analysis (Andrew Weissman): [10:27]–[21:30]
• Foreign Policy Escalation/NATO (David Rothkopf): [22:41]–[29:23]
• ICE and Street Enforcement (Jacob Soboroff): [29:23]–[38:55]
• Secret Grand Jury Revelations: [38:55]–[41:44]

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Tone & Takeaways

Ari Melber’s tone is vigilant but analytical, openly dealing with the gravity of constitutional norms under attack. The episode repeatedly draws sharp lines between legitimate law enforcement and what various experts depict as selective political prosecution and retaliatory intimidation—at home and abroad. The reporting is urgent, grounded in legal detail, and reinforced by field accounts from Jacob Soboroff and global analysis from David Rothkopf.

Bottom Line:
The episode paints a picture of an administration unraveling traditional barriers between political power and law enforcement, with profound effects for journalistic freedom, public protest, and America’s international standing.

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Transcript

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[Ari Melber]

Welcome to the Beat. We begin with this escalation in President Trump's crackdown. The FBI has now executed a new search warrant at a Washington Post journalist home in Virginia. The administration says this is part of an investigation into a government contractor that they accuse of illegally retaining classified materials. The Post reporting FBI agents have now seized this reporter's phone, two laptops and a watch. One of the laptops was a personal computer, the other a Washington Post issued laptop. Investigators tell the Post reporter that she's not the focus of this probe, that the target is a government contractor and according to the criminal complaint is alleged to have had secret documents in a lunchbox and his own basement, which could be a violation of the rules. Attorney General Bondi alleges the Post reporter also published illegally leaked information. Of course, that is when you cover the government, what happens all the time. It is also worth noting the complaint, which may be partial, may only be the start of the story. But the complaint itself does not accuse that contractor of leaking classified information. Now, this is obviously drawing intense scrutiny because while the government does have wide latitude in, in legitimate national security cases, and there have been times in the past where we've seen as a last resort, reporters basically dealt with and investigated or their materials investigated in security litigation. This comes amid a time where the Trump DOJ under Bondi has very little credibility. And the president has mused about going after all kinds of opponents and has done so. And he and his allies have viewed many in the press as, you know, as their sort of political opponents. Times reports that it's exceedingly rare to search reporters home, and it refers to a 1980 law that bans searching reporters unless they are the suspect committed of I should say they are the suspect in a criminal probe. Obviously, for example, being a journalist doesn't mean that the authorities can never deal with you if they have something separate from your journalism that you did wrong. Washington Post executive editor says this extraordinary aggressive action is deeply concerning and raises profound questions and concern around the constitute protections for our work. Some of this was also telegraphed because the administration, in contrast to past administrations in both parties, had recently diluted the rules that protect journalists. So we knew they were already we knew they were already going down this road because there was some level of intent. If this is a valid factual pursuit, if ultimately they overturn and find materials that supports the investigation, everyone will look at that and report that out. But it comes at a time where the administration is going after all kinds of public opponents. It's going after the Federal Reserve chair. It's using criminal probes to intimidate. And so there are obviously real questions about whether this pursuit kind of breaking a line we haven't seen yet in the second term of a mainstream major journalist's home and their property and their materials, whether that itself is an exception that's lawful or part of a larger selective prosecution campaign. As for developments in that campaign, look at the targeting of lawmakers. Democratic Senator Lisa Slotkin now says she has federal prosecutors investigating her and their claim involves something that all lawmakers have very protected. It's literally in the Constitution. It's called the speech and debate clause, and they refer to things she said in a video that was about the military following the law. You can think about the obvious irony or Orwellian twist of a lawmaker who of course has authority over writing laws, reminding the military to follow them and not do unlawful orders or campaigns. And that itself is what this administration now says could be a crime. Slotkin is objecting to Trump's playbook, saying this is intimidation and physical intimidation meant to shut people up. Democratic Congressman Chrissy Houlihan says she was also contacted by the DOJ and is being investigated over the same video. And the Pentagon is using its powers, and this is different than criminal probes, but also suggests possible corruption because it is using the powers it has for its brave men and women who serve, which of course is supposed to be always patriotic and nonpartisan. But there are questions about political corruption at Hegseth Pentagon and whether they are abusing the rules and authority they have over a Democratic senator from that video who happens to be a retired naval officer, Mark Kelly. Now, in normal times, people who go from military service, showing their public service, their valor, their bravery into, into Congress, that's usually considered a plus. But let's be clear, Kelly is saying, and his allies are objecting to the fact that it looks like the Trump administration is treating it as a kind of a minus, as a way to get leverage over him and now endangering his military rank. And something that people who do public service rely on is pension payments that come out of the past service. Senator Kelly is fighting back, filing this lawsuit against Hegseth and the department trying to block what he says are these retaliation efforts. And these are the latest targets of a larger crackdown that we have been reporting on. Because remember, even in Magaland, where they say many things, admitting that they have an actual enemies list, that they would break rules and law and go after their enemies at the doj, that was too much for many in maga. And so when questioned about this originally, when they were taking in their jobs, confirmation hearings beginning this year, they all resisted and said they don't have an enemy's list. But you can look at it. You can see how they've weaponized investigations, subpoenas, probes. On the left in the green, you see some of these have already been dismissed because they are so weak, although they take time, money and energy, even when they end quickly. And on the right, you have cases that are going forward. Congresswoman indicted, former Trump official, Bolton indicted. And new this week, lower right corner, Jerome Powell, facing a criminal probe because he says he's resisted Trump's unlawful efforts to kneecap the Fed to get a sugar high economic plan to try to help Trump politically. Now, here's what Trump is saying about all this. It's limited by my morality and I have a very high moral grade of morality. So therefore, it's limited.

[Andrew Weissman]

Not the Constitution, not the courts.

[Jacob Soboroff]

That's what I thought you were going to say.

[Ari Melber]

Well, the Constitution, of course, that goes without saying. But you're asking me what really can stop. We'll never get to the courts. We'll never get to the Constitution, because I don't. I want to see what's good for our country.

[David Rothkopf]

And you know what?

[Ari Melber]

The courts want to see that, too. Donald Trump doing an interview there with cbs, which has been under scrutiny for how its administration editorial choices after trying to cozy up to Trump after settling lawsuits, now having new leadership is trying to basically be a friendlier media outlet. What you'll also notice if you keep track of this kind of thing, is that Donald Trump thought the Venezuela effort would be a big win for him. I mean, clearly, from the way they promoted it and touted it and did all their press, and yet two thirds of the country doesn't understand why we'd even be trying to run Venezuela and is basically not for the, for that operation. And then Trump started doing more and more press. He did a long New York Times interview. I just showed you the CBS interview. There is clearly a view at the White House from trying to change the Fed policy for the economy to trying to do a lot more press, to trying to sort of distract from the Epstein failures and a lot of other things that have been going on where this president can see there are problems. He's just trying to shout them down, paper them over and intimidate anyone who points them out, rather than maybe address the underlying problems that are dogging his actual presidency and leadership of the United States. Now, given how many of these cases revolve around whether there's a valid investigation or not, from that new Washington Post probe to, of course, the Fed and the other cases I mentioned, I want to bring in some someone who's really an expert at this and has done this for years. Andrew Weissman, of course, is a prosecutor. He was on the Mueller probe. And also remind people as FBI general counsel, he would literally look at and enforce the rules for the people doing the enforcement of the law for the rest of us. Welcome, Andrew. I wanted to stay first. Big picture. Anyone who's followed any story or any case knows it takes time to get all the facts. And so the Washington Post action is, is definitely severe. We can report that it is a, it is severe and unusual. But whether it's ultimately part of a lawful probe that judges would bless from the beginning to the end, we don't really know. But the big picture I mentioned is that you have multiple lawmakers who are literally being threatened over their First Amendment rights. What they said about policy on a video, the Fed for its job. Big picture. What do you think of, of the legality of, of these crackdowns?

[Andrew Weissman]

So big picture. So first, I do think with respect to the leak investigation, if you turn your attention away from the alleged leaker who has been charged, and the complaint looks like a sort of, you know, the plain vanilla charge that you would see in a case like this. The, of course, is the irony that, you know, of course we have a president who was facing the exact same charges, but was alleged to have done far worse. Let's leave that aside. To me, the thing that we do know from the Washington Post is that the normal processes that would have been followed in other administrations were not followed here. It really seems like they just jumped to a search warrant. And you know, that is a real attack on the so called fourth estate. Did they try and get the documents just voluntarily? Did they issue a subpoena? Was there negotiation? What we're being told by the Washington Post is no. So I think big picture, we do know that, that this is a very different stance that the administration has with respect to people who are, are supposed to, as you do, Ari, cover the news and call out sort of, you know, bogus statements by the government. When and, and when it's right, we're supposed to say it's right. And when it's wrong, we're supposed to call it out. So this is an attack on that. And I think what you're saying with respect to Senator Kelly, with respect to Senator Slotkin, what you saw with Letitia James, with James Comey I think is a, a variation on that. You're seeing the sort of true weaponization of enemies. But at the same side you're seeing a lack of investigation of Pete Hegseth when he uses signal to talk about war plans, A lack of investigation of Tom Homan when he is alleged to have taken $50,000 in, of cash in a kava bag. A lack of investigation of the ICE agent who we know shot and killed an unarmed woman in Minnesota. But we are seeing, by the way, an investigation that's now been reported of her background and that of her widow. So you really are seeing the sort of true weaponization of the department by this administration.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And, and the president reportedly just is unhappy that while the actions matter and the harassment matters, the cases so far have been thin enough that a year in, I would remind everyone no one on that chart we showed has been convicted of anything. And journal reports, Trump says they're not moving fast enough at DOJ to prosecute his targets, which that reporting would suggest a confession. At what point other than getting these cases dismissed, Kelly seems to be going more on offense. At what point would there be more of a reckoning for people at the DOJ who knowingly abuse those powers without meeting the required legal standard for these cases?

[Andrew Weissman]

Well, one of the things I would note is that the administration seems to be taking a step to avoid the Department of Justice altogether. They announced just a few days ago that their going to have an alleged fraud prosecutor, but that assistant attorney general is not going to be within the Department of Justice. They're going to be housed in reporting directly to the White House and not reporting to Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche. So that is, you know, complete eradication of a separation between the White House and the Department of Justice. And what can happen to people at the Department of Justice, at the leadership, if they are engaged in wrongdoing, sort of intentionally or in bad faith? You know, the answer is right now, not a whole lot. Although down the road, if it can be shown there are consequences from, you know, losing their bar ticket or having bar complaints and sanctioning to things that are more serious. Um, you know, but, but the more serious is unlikely to happen because you do have to show intentionality if they were, you know, intentionally to commit a crime. And also at the federal level, the president can pardon people on his way out the door, assuming he leaves and goes out that door.

[Ari Melber]

Right. Right. Which goes to the whole problem of, of, of what the DOJ is like in these, in this moment. Andrew, stay with me. We're going to continue this. I just have a quick 90 second break. CIDP can make your daily routine feel not so routine. The good news?

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[Jacob Soboroff]

Foreign.

[Ari Melber]

We'Re back with Andrew Weissman and we're following several of them. The moves by the Trump administration people can feel from the horrific shooting by the ICE agent in in Minnesota to these other measures that things are heating up. The Washington Post reports on what we were discussing with the search of this Washington Post reporters journalist home that any search target journalists warrants intense scrutiny because these kinds of searches, according to First Amendment expert Jamil Joffer, can deter and impede reporting. And when you look at what Bondi rescinded that I mentioned in April, this was what was telegraphed. Bondi basically canceled what had been a Biden policy preventing officials from searching reporters records when trying to ID government personnel. Bondi said in a memo that the media shouldn't get those protections. And what you described was an interest in a show of force that rather than saying, well we want to get this material so there's ways we can get it and subpoena it and that's our priority here. There seems to be a willingness or even an interest in starting with what was the last resort show up at the home, make it a big deal. Some of these cases we're learning about because the targets like Powell and lawmakers are sharing the information with your experience of the, of the judiciary. At what point do judges who are not supposed to read the temperature, that's what they tell us. Can't look at one of these cases in isolation and be, you know, totally blind like lady justice. When you got, you got 15, 20 people being harassed by the government and they all have one thing in common and it's not what their skin color and it's not their party, it's just whether they have independently exercised their rights in a way Trump doesn't like.

[Andrew Weissman]

So you know, there, there is, there's good news. Although I'm just going to briefly at the end just talk about when it comes to a search of a journalist, the limited authority that a court has. But what you're talking about is something that we've seen the courts push back. There were pending motions by Letitia James and James Comey for vindict and selective prosecutions. Those never needed to be decided because the cases were dismissed on other grounds. But if for those cases were to come back, those motions will be made Again, but we have seen places where the court has reached that issue. Mr. Brego Garcia, the individual who was illegally extracted from this country and sent to El Salvador, we sort of rotted in a prison there. His judge in the criminal case has said that he is entitled to discovery on his claim for selective and vindictive prosecution. There's going to be a hearing on that at the end of January. In addition, just security, the Legal Forum has recounted scores, scores of judges who no longer are giving the government the presumption of regularity because they have seen the government make statements that are simply not true. They have questioned whether their orders have been followed, and they've just recounted over and over again things that were unheard of in Republican and Democratic administrations. And I just want to be clear. I've served in Republican and Democratic administrations. It is unheard of that as a government lawyer you would disobey and not and as well as not be completely candid with the court about what you knew. But when it comes to the journalists, let me just quickly say there's limited authority for what the courts can do there. This really is a question of Department of Justice policy. It is true that Pam Bondi sort of loosened the reins a bit from Merrick Garland and Eric Holder, but even she has said that this is supposed to be a last resort and it's not clear how so far how this is a last resort given the Washington Post reporting as to what was not done beforehand.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. Andrew Weissman, thank you. I want to tell folks later tonight we'll hear from Jacob Soboroff, who's covered ice and deportation for a long time as we see these protests, these videos showing all kinds of conduct. So he will be an expert for us to tonight. Also, revelations about Lindsey Graham calling out Donald Trump for lying when he could testify in secret. That's a new story. Meanwhile, we have a president losing at home but clearly trying to use war powers abroad to sound or look tough. We have a special guest on that next. Donald Trump has faced many setbacks at home. His first year put him as the most unpopular president at this point in the second term. And that may explain why he has turned abroad using war powers that are harder to review in real time. Today, officials in Greenland and Denmark were at the White House going from those countries to visit with the Trump administration. They spoke to Rubio in Vance while Trump publicly vows to take Greenland.

[Andrew Weissman]

On Greenland. Sir, the premier of Greenland said today we prefer to stay with Denmark. Do you see that as the final the premier of Greenland?

[Ari Melber]

Well, that's their problem. That's their problem. I disagree with him. I don't know who he is, don't know anything about him, but that's going to be a big problem for him. We've heard that the discussions were described with Vance and Rubio as frank by the Danish diplomat US Control. Greenland, we're told, is not necessary. That's putting it lightly. Trump posted that anything less than Greenland in the hands of the US Is unacceptable. This is one of the many threats that Trump is driving. And it's not the kind of thing that other countries are ignoring or the markets are ignoring. When the sitting president hijacks or takes or extracts a foreign leader out of Venezuela with no warning or process and then talks about other war powers, people have to deal with this. Even if Trump has a range of motivations. Politico says so many wars, so little time. And it's all different than everything Trump claimed last year when he was running for president and promising not to be another belligerent Republican getting us into endless wars. I want to bring in David Rothkop, foreign policy expert who worked in the Clinton administration and hosts Deep State Radio, the podcast. As you know, David, there's always the balance between. He had a bad end of the year, he has an Epstein debacle, he's very unpopular. People forget that he's facing one of the largest ongoing protest movements we've seen, and he wants to change the topic. But if you're over in Western Europe or you're a NATO member, that analysis doesn't buy you much, does it? They got to deal with this, and they're coming and dealing with it. So what do you see as happening? Even if some are concerned that it's a wag the dog.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, there is a wag the dog element to it. There's also an element to it that's associated with, let's say, idiosyncrasies of the president's personality. He said that he, he feels in this New York Times interview he did a couple of days ago that the reason to go into Greenland is because he likes to own things. You know, that's not a rationale for attacking an ally or attacking our alliance. You know, we've had a treaty for decades that allows the United States to do effectively whatever we want to in Greenland. We have a base in Greenland. Greenland is part of NATO. There is no Russian or Chinese threat, as he says, there is no national security interest to do this. So it has to either address this idiosyncrasy in his personality or there is a possible other motive. And the other motive is that this would blow up NATO. And Trump has been negative on NATO for a long, long time. And if he goes in, if he attacks a NATO ally, particularly one where they're going to be holding exercises in Greenland that will involve other NATO allies, this could end the alliance that would be bad for the United States. It would be real good for Vladimir Putin, and it's something we need to watch real closely.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. As you remind everyone, NATO has this collective security agreement to deal with what was the Soviet threat. And Putin today it rallied across the alliance for the United States in the wake of 9, 11. It's such a good thing in long term geopolitics that no other president's ever gotten to this point. I mean, you can debate the dues, you can debate sharing the burden, but nobody's ever said, you know, what we need is we need to be weaker against Putin and we need to have fewer friends when we're attacked as we were after nine, 11. It was good to have a treaty with friends. I want to play what the foreign minister from Denmark was saying after the meeting today. Take a listen. We had what I will describe as.

[Andrew Weissman]

A frank but also constructive discussion.

[Ari Melber]

The discussions focused on how to ensure the long term security in Greenland and here. Our perspectives continue to differ.

[Andrew Weissman]

I must say the president has made.

[Ari Melber]

His view clear and we have a different position. We therefore still have a fundamental disagreement.

[Andrew Weissman]

But we also agree to disagree and.

[Ari Melber]

Therefore we will, however, continue to talk. He could be describing diplomacy or marriage. David, sometimes you just say we're still in disagreement, we're going to keep going. But when you look at Putin in the background of the shadow, how does he view all this? Is he, even if it doesn't go to a worst case scenario, is he already getting something for nothing?

[David Rothkopf]

Sure, because, you know, the United States has pulled back from funding, for example, Ukraine and has said we want to have NATO carry the weight within Ukraine. Well, if the United States is in, you know, at loggerheads with NATO over Greenland, if US Relations with NATO are deteriorating over Greenland, then, you know, the United States and NATO are less likely to be able to cooperate on Ukraine and that's going to create more openings for Putin there. NATO is the single greatest factor containing Putin's expansionist impulses across Europe, which we've already seen not just in Ukraine, but in Georgia. We've seen him talk about Moldova, he's talked about the Baltics. And the Europeans realize this is a real threat. Well, without the United states involved or with NATO in this kind of a conflict. This opens an opportunity for Putin, just as American expansionism like this sends a message to countries like China that if they want to go in their own neighborhood and do something in Taiwan, the United States is going to have a hard time objecting because look at what we're doing in Venezuela. Look at what we want to do in Greenland. So this weakens the US it weakens the international structure that we've relied on for the past 80 years. And it creates real opportunities for our rivals around the world.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, understood. David, thank you for international perspective and the wisdom. We appreciate it. I'll tell folks coming up you rarely get to go inside a grand jury room and certainly not one contemplating the indictment of Donald Trump. But we now have the new transcripts, including Lindsey Graham slamming Trump when he thought it was in secret. I'm going to read that to you coming up. And the ICE backlash. Jacob Sober, who's reported on this for a long time, joins me next. Donald Trump has tried to put troops in the streets, federal agents in the streets, ICE agents in the streets, often masked and testing how aggressive they can get. Now we're seeing more and more citizens who know they might be taking a risk, exercising their rights to document what's happening, including by agents who clearly don't want people to know who they are. And some of these videos are spreading around the country just a week after the ICE agent shot and killed US Citizen Renee Goode. Minneapolis neighborhoods have been overwhelmed by the scale and the aggressiveness of these tactics. It seems that the feds at times look like they want to be fighting with citizens and protesters rather than the ostensible mission, which was to go find some undocumented immigrants, not attack people who are peaceably assembled. ICE officers dragged a woman from her car yesterday. This was during the day she told them she was just trying to go to a doctor's appointment. Protests are spreading and this comes amid what we've been reporting, an effort to intimidate and harass some of the most powerful people in the country. You're talking about members of Congress, members of the Fed. And yet on the ground, the intimidation tactics take on a different flavor, where we are seeing force, people grabbing phones, menacing, attacking and in some cases shooting Americans to death. A young demonstrator in California has been deemed permanently blind in one eye after an altercation with federal officers. It was a six hour surgery where doctors found shards of plastic, glass and metal in the eye and around the individual's face. There is video of that incident online, you can also see a federal officer shooting at Jacob Rummler at point blank range. This was a non lethal round. A few moments later, the officer is then dragging them into a building by his clothing while the face of that individual there was still seen on video bleeding. That was a 21 year old. Again, much of these aggressive tactics are being used in maneuvers that don't even involve the original ICE enforcement of dealing with undocumented migrants. I'm joined now by MSNOW's Jacob Soboroff, who so many of you know for being one of our field reporters on many topics including long term coverage of immigration. Also, of course, he was out in his hometown of LA dealing with the reporting on that difficult issue for so many people, the LA fires. And he has a new book, Firestorm, the Great LA Fires in America's New Age of Disaster that made the New York Times bestseller list. Like so many issues in journalism, a tough story, but a story worth telling. It grew initially out of him reporting on the devastation that his own community was facing during those fires. Jacob, welcome. We'll get to both of these topics, but let's start with what you're seeing. What are you seeing in the way that these federal enforcement actions seem to be spiraling or spreading well outside of the original so called mission?

[Jacob Soboroff]

It's a continuation, Ari, of the tactics that I reported directly to you on the first day of the no Kingsday protests in the summer of 2025 and in early June. You and I were live on the air together as those heavy handed tactics literally resulted in peaceful protesters being targeted with less lethal munitions. We were chased by local officers on horseback who behind them had federal agents, heavily armed, masked, kitted up, parading through the streets of Los Angeles under the pretense that there were riotous mobs marauding through the street. And none of it was true. And that is a scene now that has played out time and time again. I've seen it myself from Chicago to Charlotte to the halls of 26 Federal Plaza in New York. We're watching it play out in Minnesota right now. And this is exactly as they have drawn it up. Tom Holman said to me the day after I talked to you that he believed people would die in these confrontations. And his predictions sadly have proven to be exactly true.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, yeah. And that's why it goes to the question of what exactly the federal government is doing. This is America. People have rights and there is a leadership and a training problem. When we've seen agents on video blatantly menace people Threaten people, grab phones. They don't show any of the balance. That, as I've seen sometimes covering law enforcement, where when you see large demonstrations certain places and you see local police, we see it with NYPD and LAPD sometimes having layers. And the first layer is usually, hey, we want you guys to have a successful protest because that's your right. I mean, I'm not seeing any of that. Here's one Minneapolis protester. We wanted to share what they said today about it going too far.

[Andrew Weissman]

They're constantly. My neighborhoods, everybody's in fear, whether you're a citizen or not. Like, it's just causing so much chaos. And I live right next to that target where those two workers were pulled out the other day. And I, I lean more on the right and I, for a lot of issues, but when it comes to human rights, you know, that's just something that I think is very important for a lot of people.

[Ari Melber]

And Jacob, one could lean to the right politically and still be opposed to militarized agents shooting a mother of three to death for no apparent reason. Captured on video.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Of course. Ari, I think that over and over again, what I hear from people in all of these places is that they didn't ask for this. Even if they voted for Donald Trump and even if they wanted the largest mass deportation program in American history, part of that was not American citizens being harassed by these same law enforcement officers on the streets, their own freedoms being taken away, their constitutional rights being challenged. But as JB Pritzker has said to me, as Gavin Newsom said to me just a couple of weeks ago, they believe that all of this, the harassment of American citizens by mass federal agents on the streets of the United States will be a pretext to the invocation of the Insurrection Act. The National Guard was taken away from Los Angeles and other cities and states around the country. You know, after failures in federal court by the Trump administration to continue with that policy and with the Insurrection act, by provoking these protesters, American citizens that are fighting on behalf of non citizens, these Democratic governors think that, you know, Gavin Newsontomy, he doesn't think he can guarantee that he would stop Donald Trump again from deploying troops, armed army troops, National Guard troops, to the streets of the United States of America if the Insurrection act is invoked. And they believe that that's the goal.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. Tell us about this book which grew out of your reporting and what we can learn and reflect on from those terrible fires.

[Jacob Soboroff]

There's so much overlap, Ari, actually, between what's happening with immigration enforcement and what we've seen in the wake of the fires in Los Angeles. As I often say, when you cover big mass casualty events like this, whether it was the family separation crisis, which I covered in the first Trump term, or the most costly wildfire event in the history of the United States of America, happened to happen in the neighborhood that I grew up in in Los Angeles, the fissures underneath our society are laid bare. And one of them today, which you will read about in this book, Gavin Newsom warned me about it off camera. I write about it after I interviewed him from Meet the Press, is immigration policy. It is stymieing the recovery effort from this fire. 40% of the construction industry, according to some estimates in California, is undocumented labor. Who is being targeted? As you so rightly pointed out, not the worst of the worst at all, but people that are standing in Home Depot park lots looking to engage on construction projects and get an honest day's work doing anything that they can. And more often than not in Los Angeles right now, where that is needed is in the recovery. Just two days ago, I was with Pablo Alvarado from the National Day Laborers Organizing Network in Altadena as we talked about this. The raids are continuing every single day. I think he told me seven day laborers were taken just several days ago in Los Angeles. And so how do you recover from one of the largest natural disasters in American history, the fire of the future? That will only happen more and more, as you will learn in this book. You can't do it with immigration policies like the ones this administration is putting forward right now.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. Jacob Soberoff, thank you for your work. And that book is Firestorm, available now. People can go wherever books are sold. Or Google it. Firestorm by Jacob Soboroff and check out his continuation of that reporting. I'm going to fit in a break. When we come back, we will go inside the secret grand jury room to show you what Republicans were really saying as they mocked Donald Trump's 2020 election. Lies. Grand juries are famously secret. And when we report on them, you often don't have any idea what's going on inside. But tonight we have new revelations about what some top Republicans were secretly telling the grand jury. Under the rules, it's supposed to be secret about Donald Trump's bid to steal the election he lost in 2020. This is from that Georgia interference case. And how alarmed and exasperated Republicans were because back then, Trump had lost and they were just trying to get to a transition of power. The case led to criminal charges and then was later dismissed. The testimony is newly obtained by the Times and has a kind of a who's who of people involved in the Georgia issues, including the former speaker of the House, saying Trump's plan to have fake electors, which we've reported on, was the craziest thing he'd heard. Or the Republican governor, Brian Kemp, who ultimately clashed with Trump because he wouldn't help steal the election, called the whole effort to get lawmakers in a session to lie about Trump's loss. He viewed it as a fruitless exercise. And coming out of Washington, Senator Lindsey Graham testified, I've told Trump more times than we can count that he fell short on that election. He said Trump's plan to enlist these fake electors was weird. I just don't want to tell you, just weird. Now, that might seem like a shift because Graham is so often supportive of Trump in this second term, but Graham zigzags so much. It's clear that neither he nor Trump nor anyone who follows politics is supposed to care that there's nothing consistent because now Trump has power and Graham supports him. Then, of course, Trump had just lost. And after that, Graham was testifying about how, yeah, he lost. Get over it. And if you go back far enough, it was Lindsey Graham who warned everyone against some of what we're now living through, what he thought was an unfit individual, Donald Trump, to ever be president. I think he's a kook.

[Andrew Weissman]

I think he's crazy. I think he's unfit for office. Donald Trump is a political car wreck. I think he's a wrecking ball for the future of the Republican Party. If Donald Trump carries the banner of my party, I think it taints conservatism for generations to come.

[Ari Melber]

It does if you believe Lindsey Graham, and it taints himself, because he was warning this would be bad if he won. Now Lindsey Graham is part of what he himself said would taint conservatism for a generation. Trump now has doubled down and said he basically admits that he wanted to seize voting machines, have the military do it. That would be illegal. That plot was one of the many efforts that Trump tried. We tracked those arrows where he wanted to overturn the election and eventually turned to more and more extreme conduct, including the violence that he later pardoned. Someone who worked with Donald Trump in the White House in the first term, Ty Cobb, warned this. The White House is very serious about using any lever of government that, you know, inflates Trump's sense of his power.

[Jacob Soboroff]

It will be difficult to stop his occupation of America.

[Ari Melber]

It may go toward his ultimate desire. Perhaps not in 2026, but in 2028.

[Jacob Soboroff]

You know, to ensure that power passes.

[Ari Melber]

To his chosen successor as opposed to the free and fair elections. The warnings are coming from people who worked right alongside Donald Trump in the White House. As the militarization and the crackdowns continue, it's not a time to look away, and it's not a time to panic. There's a lot more people who still believe in the rule of law in America than those who would sacrifice it for another round of whatever unpopular agenda we're living through right now. We'll be right back. CIDP can make your daily routine feel not so routine. The good news?

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[Ari Melber]

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[David Rothkopf]

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[Ari Melber]

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[Ari Melber]

You can always catch up with us at Ms. Now Ari that has all of our new videos, including stuff from last night you might have missed. We'll be posting new stuff from tonight. Go to Ms. NOW ari for our YouTube playlist to keep up with us. You can even share it with your friends and family. All right, thanks for joining.

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