← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Former Prince Andrew Arrested After Epstein Files Revelations
00:40:49
British authorities have arrested former Prince Andrew and are investigating him on suspicion of misconduct in public office. He has faced public accusations of sexual misconduct from Epstein survivors. MS NOW's Ari Melber reports.
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Alex Spiro
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News Anchor / Host
We are following breaking news. A major arrest driven by the Epstein files. British authorities arresting Andrew Malbot and Windsor, long known as Prince Andrew. Authorities are probing him for suspicion of misconduct in public office and he's faced these public accusations as well of sexual misconduct by Epstein survivors. You can see the headlines around the world. We know authorities are searching Andrew's residences. He was released as after arrest and the legal investigation continues. We can tell you tonight that by far this is the most senior person to face any legal accountability over Epstein anywhere in the world. It's the first senior British royal arrested in four centuries. Never happened. Its accountability for a royal was once practically unthinkable in the uk and this new image of Andrew in his car, fresh after the arrest with a facial expression that people can interpret for themselves is ricocheting around the world. Our colleague Nicole Wallace, who of course just passed off to me, made the point in her reporting today. This is indeed a 1 in 400 year event.
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Political Commentator / Analyst
Start with breaking news about Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. The BBC understands that he has been arrested on suspicion of misconduct public office. The fallout from the revelations in the Epstein files has now led to a 1 in 400 year event.
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Paul Krugman
The biggest story in the world right
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News Anchor / Host
now that is the arrest of Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. Those links with the convicted pedophile, the late pedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
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Political Commentator / Analyst
There's a maximum sentence of life imprisonment for Andrew. Searches are currently ongoing at royallodic. The first senior royal in modern history to be arrested.
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News Anchor / Host
Just a seismic development and you can see different analysts and journalists reaching for ways to put it in context. It's not only the biggest Epstein arrest, it's for the uk, the biggest royal arrest ever. Now, he was only recently stripped of his titles over links to Epstein. This scandal had dogged him for years and he stayed close with Epstein even as it clearly dragged him down in many public forums. Andrew also gave an infamous interview in 2019 where he struggled to address the serious allegations against him. We can note that he has not been indicted on any sex crime here. He's always denied wrong doing in connection with Epstein. And as with any legal case we're following, even when charged, the process must play out. In the United States, people are presumed innocent in the uk, where we've drawn some of our legal traditions. He would await, of course, the rest of the legal process. But when you look at this development, what changed all of a sudden in the uk, as we see a royal arrested in leaving that process? What changed is what occurred here in the US because Congress forced the release of the Epstein files over Donald Trump's many objections last year. And that's what Dr. The swift impact and more scrutiny and new evidence and emails on Andrew's long history with Epstein, just as others have found themselves under scrutiny in Europe for their Epstein ties and in countries around the world because he ran a global influence effort. So tonight, now we can see that, aided by the new files, British authorities are investigating Andrew's alleged misconduct in public office, which includes how he dealt with Epstein and how he used his own role in the UK a little bit different than here. He's basically released under investigation. To put it in plain English, in the us, we think of arrest as something that happens alongside your indictment and you go forward there, the probe continues while he has been arrested, which shows his obvious interest to investigators as a subject. Now, even before today's news, we're talking about the gap between what happens with accountability, whether that's legal or in other institutions, and what is alleged or known, because other Epstein advisors had previously specifically accused Andrew of abuse, one, detailing how Ghislaine Maxwell and Epstein allegedly essentially trafficked her to Andrew when she was 17. So, one, this new arrest matters for accountability. That's what a legal process is supposed to do. But I want to give it extra context tonight on this story we've all been following for so long, including in Donald Trump's America, because two, this type of development reignites serious questions about whether the United States DOJ was wrong to close down the Epstein case by only charging Epstein and Maxwell. You've heard me mention this if you watch this program because we documented how the new files were reveal things we would have never otherwise known, like how the DOJ previously eyed other. Oh, not this. Let's pull this down. I want to make sure we get this right. If we have the DOJ Epstein inner circle faces, we'll show you that. If not, I'll just describe it. I don't, I don't want to. In fairness, we don't want to show the wrong faces. So let me just say this with words. The DOJ has eyed other suspects with Epstein. There were several people identified as potential suspects and others redacted from the new release. We know the DOJ ultimately did not charge most of them. That includes Jean Luc Brunel, who is named in a new bombshell Wall Street Journal report that looked at how he was an alleged conspirator, how the DOJ sought to flip him against Epstein to take his testimony, but that plan fell apart when he went dark. That's new reporting also based on the files. This relates to the UK for a very clear reason. The United States DOJ treated the Epstein case as essentially, in the end, a narrow enforcement against his sex crimes, that is to say, what he did. And they wanted to prosecute him for what he did, his own physical activities. I say it that way because as you might remember, the DOJ did not pursue or indict a wider sex trafficking ring that would involve potentially other criminals or other men. And that was the case under Trump's attorney general in 2019. It remained the status quo approach under Attorney General Garland. And yet here we are tonight looking at other countries investigating other men allegedly tied to Epstein. If more investigations and evidence show that the DOJ's approach was incorrect, by which I mean factually and legally, if more dominoes fall in this Epstein scandal, that would vindicate many survivors. We've heard from and other legal critics who allege that the US Government fell short failing to hold these other powerful men accountable. That is the context for the mounting outrage over the Trump administration's current stance.
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Political Commentator / Analyst
The UK was able to come forward, take action, and that is a big thing. Why the doj, why the FBI has
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Paul Krugman
not yet to take action?
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Political Commentator / Analyst
The UK drawing quite a contrast with the US this morning in those wor. No one is above the law. It only underscores the lack of any law enforcement activity here in this country.
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News Anchor / Host
It's happening in Europe, but it's not happening enough in the United States. That's what we're seeing today, which is a very glaring contrast. The voices you heard there are journalists, lawmakers, one survivor who spoke out today, and top lawmakers who led the Epstein files bill are saying the same thing. Democratic lawmaker Ro Khanna notes that he and Rep. Massi forced the release of an email showing former Prince Andrew allegedly sharing state info with Epstein. He notes that he's being held accountable because of survivors, including Virginia Guthrey, who bravely spoke up. He goes on to note how others have resigned from DP World or the Norwegian prime minister is charged. There's accountability around the world, Khanna says today. Why isn't more being done here? We should start with Trump official Howard Lutnick resigning. And it's true, even amidst accountability in the uk, once thought unthinkable, someone as powerful as a royal, someone who once would have been in the line of succession, as that happens over here, Donald Trump is literally standing with an official who lied about visiting Epstein Island. Now, these individuals we showed you on the screen and others have not been accused of criminal wrongdoing connection with this case. But there is mounting accountability for so many in the US and around the world. This is the chart I was going to show you which is relevant here. You see Lutnick has had testimony sought. You see others have been ousted or subpoenaed. You have Andrew now not only sanctioned earlier in the UK but new today, arrested. These are people who are tied to Epstein in emails, in communication and conduct. And this is the mounting and relatively quick accountability since the files dropped. It's a gap between Trump protecting his Epstein associate and how accountability is working everywhere else. And Donald Trump spent much of the last year fighting against the release of these very files, a battle that he ultimately lost badly, humiliatingly, say some in public. Which is how we got to here. We don't know. He may yet lose this next round as he stands by the lying Epstein associate and his candidate and drags out an Epstein scandal in his Cabinet. Because apparently Donald Trump fears that for him more Epstein transparency would be even worse than this. Another year where the Trump White House, the Trump administration, the Trump DOJ and Trump's hand picked cabinet members are under the Epstein scandal of their own making while his approval sinks to record lows. I'm going to get into this on a giant news night with the New York Times, Michelle Goldberg in 90 seconds,
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Political Commentator / Analyst
Why were you staying with a convicted sex offender?
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News Anchor / Host
Right.
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Alex Spiro
I have always, ever since this has happened and since this has become, as
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News Anchor / Host
it were, public knowledge that I was
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Alex Spiro
there, I've questioned myself as to why did I go, what was I doing, and was it the right thing to do. Now, I went there with the sole purpose of saying to him that because he had been convicted, it was inappropriate for us to be seen together.
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News Anchor / Host
Former Prince Andrew arrested in the UK Today. We are joined by the New York Times. Michelle Goldberg, your view of the significance of this development?
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Political Commentator / Analyst
Well, I mean, obviously, it's, it's enormous. And I think it just goes to show that at this point, the United States in some ways is functioning more like a monarchy than Great Britain, which actually is a monarchy. Right. Because you see this level of accountability there, just as you have in many other countries in Europe. This isn't also, this isn't the first very high official or high, you know, kind of very important figure in England who is facing some accountability. Not this level, but, you know, there's this, this scandal could take down the Prime Minister of the UK who actually had nothing to do with Epstein, simply because his ambassador was so entwined with him, which shows, I think, how seriously this is being taken everywhere else. Meanwhile, you have here in the United States, not only is Donald Trump, you know, continue to protect Lutnick and other people who are very much in Epstein's orbit, but he today, when he was asked, he said, you know, that it's a terrible thing that, that, that this arrest has happened in England, even as the king of England, this man's brother, has said that the law has to take its own course.
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News Anchor / Host
You mentioned the king's statement. Really remarkable. Americans have their own view of UK royalty and how involved they are and all that. But I'll put on the screen, King Charles is talking about his brother. These are very serious accusations, some of which are at issue, some are not, because I mentioned that this is about a public misconduct case right now. But he says, let me say clearly, the law must take its course. As you say, Michelle, that is not the message out of Trump, DOJ or the president himself.
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Political Commentator / Analyst
Yeah, no. And I think that what we're seeing around the world is, you know, when you live in the United States States, and you kind of marinate in this depravity day in and day out. You become a little bit numb to it. And then you look around the world and you see that, you know, kind of function. Other countries with functioning governments, people still do have the capacity for shock and outrage and to. And to act on that.
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News Anchor / Host
I mentioned in, in our reporting, the question of whether the DOJ basically got this right. Epstein and Maxwell did face very serious charges, and we know the resolution of both those cases. For things that Epstein, as I put it, physically did, did they get that right? Or if more evidence and more countries show there were all these other people, one lawyer, David Boies, who's not nobody, he's pretty credible. He said over 50 minors, women under 18, that he, he has evidence of trafficked some of these women. And survivors, as we all know, have spoken out and spoken about the numbers they saw, even if they didn't have perhaps what you legally need, which is an exact age check when you're talking about those kind of crimes. But the more that other countries and other evidence builds up, the more the question then becomes, did the DOJ under successive administrations get this case wrong?
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Political Commentator / Analyst
Well, look, I mean, whether the DOJ could have prosecuted Prince Andrew in this particular circumstance, I think we have no idea. Right. He broke, it seems like a British law, or is accused of breaking a British law. Confidential. Right. He's alleged to have leaked confidential information to Epstein when he was a trade representative. Um, but I think there's no question that this investigation seems to have been cast very narrowly. I mean, you. You saw Les Wexner the other day saying that he had not even been interviewed by the FBI, and he's one of the people who was closest to Epstein. There's all sorts of things in the files that you would like to think should have been followed up on. I mean, one of the things I'm haunted by is somebody emailing Jeffrey Epstein about the gynecologist that he takes his, quote, unquote, victims to. And you have to wonder, has anybody. You know, don't these doctors have a duty to report and was anything ever done to find out who they are? So there's just so many threads that you see in these files that seem like they haven't been followed up.
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Paul Krugman
All.
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News Anchor / Host
All fairly put. And the journal reporting that I mentioned discusses that at one point, the DOJ was looking at immunity for a potential co conspirator, Brunel. But when that fell apart, they didn't pursue charging him. And you don't need to be a lawyer to say if you were going to give someone immunity, that means you were well down the path of thinking they had a reason to need immunity. And then when it fell apart with all these powerful strings pulled, you didn't pursue him. And again, that was for an international trafficking case. And we now know from the flight logs how often they were together. Michelle Goldberg, we've called on you many times. You've made a point on this on our air previously about the international contrast. And that's only heightening. We'll see if that puts more pressure here in the U.S. thanks for being here tonight.
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Political Commentator / Analyst
Thank you.
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News Anchor / Host
Appreciate it. We will be joined tonight as well by Paul Krugman, a Nobel economist, on the billionaire backlash. Later, the star trial lawyer who exposed allegedly cheating prosecutors on his way to winning the Alec Baldwin case.
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Alex Spiro
This is a high pressure case.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
I've been in many.
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Alex Spiro
There have been more issues in this case than I had ever seen in all of those cases combined.
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News Anchor / Host
That was Alex Spiro speaking in court. He joins us by the end of the hour. But first, next we turn to a top lawmaker investigating this Epstein case. He was at that deposition. Our guest just mentioned, Congressman Robert Garcia. Next.
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News Anchor / Host
I'm so glad that this happened and there needs to be more of it. And frankly, it's happening in Europe, but it's not happening enough in the United States. Either the White House or the Republican
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Political Commentator / Analyst
Party and maybe the two of the same thing right now. They are protecting people that they want to protect.
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News Anchor / Host
We have to get real in this country.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
Are we going to take action like
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News Anchor / Host
every other country in the world is? Calls for the accountability in the Epstein case as the UK Makes actionable steps. I'm joined by Congressman Robert Garcia, who's the top Democrat in the Oversight Committee. Welcome your response to this news out of the UK it's huge news.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
I mean, it's good to see actually accountability happening around the world. And look, this is incredibly serious. I think the fact that the UK Is taking this so seriously, that you see the public engage, you see the government actually engage is what we need to see here in the United States. But it's a reminder that we can actually do the right thing by the survivors. And what we've been saying. We've been wanting to talk to the former prince, by the way, for months. We've sent him letters. We've sent his. His lawyers letters. We know that the former prince has also critical information. So I hope that he, of course, faces justice and he actually is accountable to the crimes that he may have committed. But at the same time, I'm hopeful that he thinks about the information that he can provide to our committee in the future and the. That we believe he has that can advance our investigation.
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News Anchor / Host
Your committee has been pursuing leads that it appears the DOJ did not, at least fully. This was a big deposition this week. You spoke out afterward. You were there. Let's take a look at a moment with this former Epstein financial client.
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Political Commentator / Analyst
Did you ever visit his island in
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Paul Krugman
the U.S. virgin Islands?
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Congressman Robert Garcia
Yes.
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News Anchor / Host
Jeffrey invited us to see it, and we were on a boat, and we went to the island with our kids, walked around for a while, left probably an hour visit.
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Political Commentator / Analyst
Okay, an hour. So on that trip, do you recall seeing any prominent figures on the island?
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News Anchor / Host
No. It was a pretty crummy island. When you look at the information you got and what the files show, including Epstein repeatedly saying that Wexner owed him a debt, that he couldn't have answered these questions without, quote, in a different context, violating a confidence with you, which he says he didn't do, referencing, defending him against accusations, and then saying, don't pretend you don't have any idea what I mean. Do you believe, based on the evidence you have, that. That Epstein was trying to blackmail him?
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Congressman Robert Garcia
I think it's very possible. I mean, look, first two things stood out in that deposition. The first is, is that Wexner was obviously, to us, lying. I mean, look, he kept saying that he wasn't friendly with Wexner, with. With Epstein.
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News Anchor / Host
You think he was lying to Congress?
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Congressman Robert Garcia
I do. I personally. I personally do not believe he was being truthful in his answers. How do you describe your relationship as not friendly? He couldn't say that they were actually friends. Yet when the birthday book note that he wrote him, he stood there in shock. Which he signed, your friend, Leslie. He gave Epstein power of attorney. No single person provided more financial wealth to Epstein than Wexner. Wexner gave hundreds of millions of dollars to Jeffrey Epstein. The reason there's a Jeffrey Epstein island and plane is in large part because of Les Wexner. And now Les Wexner is trying to somehow walk that back or say that he was unaware of, of what Epstein was doing. I'm sorry, but you don't visit someone's island. You don't go around palling around with someone in Ghislaine Maxwell, going to all of these fashion shows, being intimate, going to different homes without at least being friendly. And so there's no question to me that Wexer still has a lot of questions to answer from us. And he's absolutely, in my opinion, part of some kind of broader cover up.
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News Anchor / Host
And you're saying you as a lawmaker in that room think he was lying? As we all know, lying to Congress is a crime. The bill that you helped pass demands various documents about Epstein from the doj. Reading from one section, it requests documentation around Epstein's detention and death. Incident reports, witness interviews, medical examiner files, autopsy reports, written records detailing the circumstances and cause of death. In your view, as the DOJ complied with that, do you have all of the known requested such documents?
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Congressman Robert Garcia
I mean, absolutely not. I mean the DOJ right now, first they've withheld 50% of the documents at a minimum. I mean the idea that half of the Epstein files they are keeping to themselves and not sharing with the Congress and the American public is outrageous. It's indefensible. They're breaking the law every single day and it's on every single issue. It's not just issues related to Epstein's attacks death, it's issues related around survivors, co conspirators, the financial documents and so
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News Anchor / Host
the list on the death, because that was a section that you, your law put. Are there specific things you can name that they haven't provided or is it a general, just a general concern about their approach?
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Congressman Robert Garcia
The general concern is that they're using, they're wordsmithing the law. They continue to say that interagency communication, for example, about the Epstein case could be held back. They continue to say that things that might be under investigation could be held back. I mean, that's just BS and as it relates to the death, I'm not sure if there's any person in this country that isn't suspicious at least somewhat of the circumstances around Jeffrey Epstein's death. I mean, I certainly am. There's been reporting that I think raises a lot of questions. I think the broader question is why has there's been this massive government cover up. And look, it's not just the current DOJ and Donald Trump, but it's clear that for years the DOJ and the FBI have not been aggressive in getting justice for the survivors and asking the right questions. And the fact that didn't go after and ask Les Wexner questions is, to me unconscionable.
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News Anchor / Host
Right. And Wexner's position, you say you're concerned he could be lying, but his baseline position is that Epstein stole money from him, which is a crime. If you're following the money and you're trying to make a case, not investigating that financially provable or documented case is also suspicious for the doj. Congressman Garcia, appreciate you joining us on this very newsworthy night. Thank you. Nobel economist Paul Krugman will be here on the billionaire problem that's coming up. And by the end of the hour, one of the top trial lawyers in the U.S. joins us. From winning the Alec Baldwin case to clashing with ICE to representing the mayor of New York, Alex Spiro. Tonight,
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Alex Spiro
I'm not here to talk politics. I was here to make sure that this case that should have never been brought ended. There aren't a lot of functioning democracies around the world that work this way where you can basically have millionaires and billionaires bankrolling whoever they want, however they want, in some cases, undisclosed. And what it means is ordinary Americans are shut out of the process.
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News Anchor / Host
That's what it means. The warnings about billionaires hijacking American elections, your voting power date back to President Obama there discussing the Supreme Court gutting what were legal limits on just how much billionaires could spend or hijack these elections. And the warnings were prescient. There's been a flood of corporate money going into these midterms. The richest 10 billionaires in the country mostly align with Trump and make it pretty clear this time around, Zuckerberg's empire is putting over $60 million just to back politicians who are allied with their plans to profit from AI, which may be unpopular if you held it to a vote, given all of the risk and how it could cost people jobs. AOC also speaking out.
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Political Commentator / Analyst
Extreme levels of income inequality lead to
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social instability and drives, in a sense, in authoritarianism, right wing populism and very dangerous domestic internal politics. And that is a direct outcome of
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Political Commentator / Analyst
not just income inequality, but the failure of democracies over decades to deliver.
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News Anchor / Host
The arguments here are not about what to do within the system. Who should pay higher taxes? Why should so many billionaires pay lower tax rates than, say, you or their secretaries? That's within the system. The wider alert here is that the system itself may not function anymore if we call it a democracy, but it doesn't Run like one. Economist and longtime author Paul Krugman says we face an extreme threat from the tidal wave of billionaire influence. The Nobel winning economist joins us now. Welcome. Explain your concern here.
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Paul Krugman
Okay, so first of all, just look at what's happened in the last few years. We have X, formerly Twitter was an important communications medium. Elon Musk bought it for $44 billion and has turned it into a cesspool of white supremacists, a lot of open Nazis. And that has really changed the discourse. We have Larry Ellison, who's only a little bit less incredibly rich than Musk, has in effect has bought cbs, which is being rapidly degraded. We've all been watching that story and is trying to buy Warner Brothers, which would mean controlling cnn. So we have these individual, these are centibillionaires, people worth more than $100 billion just buying critical institutions in the media space. And then have campaigns. Since Citizens United, which opened the floodgates in 2010, we've had just this incredible outpouring. Billionaires, mere billionaires. But that's a very small group. That's a few thousand people. That's around. It's not the 1%. It's the 0.002%. Roughly speaking, billionaires accounted for about 16% of political spending in the last election. That's incredible. That's an incredibly tiny group of people completely out of touch with the concerns of ordinary Americans. And they have bought themselves enormous political power. And one of the things that's really critical here, that's really disturbing, is Citizens United didn't come out of thin air. That was the result of a long campaign by billionaires. So what's happening is not only are billionaires buying influence within the system, they're also buying changes in the system that enlarge that influence. This is a catastrophic course. We're already well down the path to losing what America is supposed to be about.
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News Anchor / Host
What does it tell you that they can't win in what we have been told is the, quote, free market of ideas? Professor, I know you like that one. Go ahead.
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Paul Krugman
No, I mean, this is. If you do economics, you've known this for a long time. There's a lot of right wing. I mean, there are people on the left, but right world of money and power is there are a lot of right wing economic concepts that just don't work. And the question is, why don't they go away? The belief that you get miraculous results from cutting taxes on rich people, well, why does that stay in existence? The answer is, well, think about the rewards to anybody willing to espouse them. Think about how the system gets rigged. And then particularly this is something new. What happened in 2024, there was the specific issue of crypto and the cryptocurrency. They threw an enormous amount of money not simply at boosting candidates they liked, but at torpedoing any politician who was mildly critical. That's going to happen again. The crypto guys are at it, and now it's going to happen with AI as well. So if you wanted to talk about pros and cons of AI, there's an interesting discussion to be had there. That's not what we're going to have. What we're going to have is a torrent at tsunami of pro AI money. Pro AI without any restraints, without any concerns about all of the various social threats it might pose. But they're just gonna try and bury all opposition.
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News Anchor / Host
And you mentioned conservative tech moguls trying to buy up media to change what people see and hear. There is news. With Buffett taking a stake in the New York Times, how do you view those developments?
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Paul Krugman
I mean, I, I don't know. I do worry. I mean, the Times, I was there for many years, and it's still, it's a critically important institution, especially with so many newspapers dying. And look at what's happened to the Washington Post. I forgot to mention that. But look at what Jeff Bezos has done to the newspaper that brought down Richard Nixon and has now been gutted. And the Times has retained its status because it's kind of a. There's the Salzberger family and the kind of noblesse oblige that the family has always had to the extent that we start to get other people, even if it's Warren Buffett, you know, Warren Buffett does not appear to be a bad guy in the way that some of these other guys are. He's not an Elon Musk. But I think it's really disturbing that big money is starting to, you know, we don't have a whole lot of reasonably objective news sources left. And here we go.
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News Anchor / Host
Yeah. And again, you have a legacy with the Times, and you're saying that even though some might look at Buffett as different than those others, it still goes back to that tiny Uber 1% control. And there were those who welcomed initially Bezos, and we saw how that's turned out. Professor Krugman, there's a lot going on tonight, but you wrote about this and is a big deal. And I appreciate you giving us some of your views tonight.
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Paul Krugman
Thanks for having me, Ellen.
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News Anchor / Host
Yes, sir. Thank you. These days you may have noticed our politics are full of legal clashes. Former New York Mayor Adams recently beat that case with the help of the super lawyer I told you about tonight, Alex Spiro. He's also fought against ICE for allegedly targeting individuals years back taking those cases to court. When actor Alec Baldwin's freedom was on the line, he turned to the same trial lawyer. Spiro is known for mixing his Harvard educated legal acumen with street smart skills and his brand of storytelling. I'm going to tell you if you're interested in these issues and the law and politics, this is my my special guest. He joins us right after the break.
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Alex Spiro
I am intentionally painting a picture as I go forward that does not reveal everything at the start. I'm never going to say what ultimately the end of the movie is going to be. That would make for a very exciting movie.
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News Anchor / Host
Welcome to the Summit series with Ari Melba where we go in depth with leaders at the summit of their fields. Our guests is Alex Spiro, one of the most sought after attorneys in the nation representing billionaires, artists, actors, former New York City Mayor Adams and other prominent figures. A former prosecutor with the Manhattan DA's office, Spiro leads high stakes trials that make precedents and news. He won the dismissal of the case against actor Alec Baldwin over the rush shooting. He's tried over 50 cases to verdict with a winning record that has many legal experts viewing him as likely the top trial lawyer in America today.
- [34:57]
Political Commentator / Analyst
The mayor's attorney, Alex Spiro, he's sort of part lawyer, part dealmaker, part fixer.
- [35:04]
Alex Spiro
The number one rule is that no one should ever know what I'm thinking.
- [35:08]
Political Commentator / Analyst
Jay Z's attorney, Alex Spiro.
- [35:10]
Alex Spiro
The second thing is I am intentionally painting a picture as I go forward that does not reveal everything.
- [35:17]
Congressman Robert Garcia
At the start, he claims to have
- [35:18]
Political Commentator / Analyst
never lost a case.
- [35:20]
Alex Spiro
I'm never going to say what ultimately the end of the movie is going to be. That would make for a very exciting movie.
- [35:25]
News Anchor / Host
Spyro is a partner at Quinn Emanuel, known as a tough untraditional firm where he co chairs its investigations in white collar defense practice. He has a J.D. from Harvard Law where he also lectured. Alex Spiro joins us now. Welcome.
- [35:38]
Alex Spiro
Thanks.
- [35:39]
News Anchor / Host
Great to have you. What do you like to do when you're making an argument in court?
- [35:46]
Alex Spiro
I like to try to connect with the people I'm speaking to and make sure that they believe and understand that I believe what I'm saying.
- [35:55]
News Anchor / Host
And you know, you believe it because of the research you've done or the choices you've made and what cases to take.
- [36:00]
Alex Spiro
It's a little bit of both. But I wouldn't be standing there saying it and saying it the way that I am if I wasn't convinced.
- [36:06]
News Anchor / Host
The New Yorker notes, you've never lost a jury case. Does that mean you're doing something different than all the other lawyers?
- [36:14]
Alex Spiro
I think there's a lot of things I'm doing differently. I think I try cases differently. I think I put cases together differently, I think I look at people differently, I think I dissect people differently. And I think that combination of variables and some. Some skill is the reason why my trials come out a certain way.
- [36:32]
News Anchor / Host
Is there something where you're leaning less on the book smarts, even though you obviously checked that box?
- [36:37]
Alex Spiro
Well, I think I'm leaning way less on the book smarts, yeah.
- [36:41]
News Anchor / Host
And so what does that mean? That's psychology. What does.
- [36:43]
Alex Spiro
It's psychology. It's intuition, it's empathy, it's force of personality. It's being able to play chess when other people are playing checkers. Yeah.
- [36:52]
News Anchor / Host
I want to turn to how you got to this chair or so many other chairs that are usually occupied by older people in the field. Sports is a younger person's game. Law is notoriously an older person's game. And so I already mentioned some of the accolades from others about who's choosing you and your level as a trial attorney for a comparison that everyone can understand. If you go back to the so called Dream Team, which has names that are recognizable to this day, Alan Dershowitz and others, the median age of the Dream team was about 56. You're 43. Are you young to be such a sought after trial lawyer? And how did that happen so fast?
- [37:38]
Alex Spiro
I think I was younger to be a sought after trial lawyer at 35. I think I'm starting to get up there a little bit. But I guess I'm young. I don't.
- [37:47]
News Anchor / Host
And when we go into these lawsuits and partnerships, the trial partners are 50s, 60s, sometimes 70s.
- [37:57]
Alex Spiro
Yes.
- [37:57]
News Anchor / Host
So do you like that? Do you think about that? Is that not on your radar? I mean, you clearly are young for this feel.
- [38:04]
Alex Spiro
It's on my radar so far as I'm glad I am where I am now because I can take a breath, look across the land, and try to figure out what I want to do next. And so if I was still climbing the mountain to get to the top into my 50s and 60s, I wouldn't, I think, have the same view that I have now. And so I'm appreciative of that, because it's going to give me. To me. It's given me a moment to pause and reflect. It's given me a moment to think about what do I want to do next.
- [38:32]
News Anchor / Host
A lot of people in the country learn more about you during your representation of Alec Baldwin. I think it's fair to say that was a. A more known case of yours. Yeah.
- [38:41]
Alex Spiro
High profile, certainly one of them. Yeah.
- [38:43]
News Anchor / Host
And so this was a tragedy. You have someone who was killed on the set and Alec Baldwin, ultimately, I'm simplifying on trial for involuntary manslaughter. And so let's look at what, of course, is a very difficult situation, some of your trial advocacy.
- [39:02]
Alex Spiro
This was an unspeakable tragedy, but Alec Baldwin committed no crime. He was an actor acting. Every other time you've been asked about this, you've said it was an accident. And now today, at the trial of Alec Baldwin, when you're talking to this jury, you left that word out, isn't that true? Not intentionally, if you do not recall. Did the prosecutor ask you and you tell this jury that you were confirming that you searched and found every single live round. Why did you testify to that?
- [39:33]
Political Commentator / Analyst
I found what I believe to be all the live rounds at the warehouse.
- [39:39]
News Anchor / Host
But that's not what you said.
- [39:40]
Alex Spiro
Actually, if you look at the boxes inside of that location, you didn't even
- [39:46]
Congressman Robert Garcia
search half of them.
- [39:47]
Alex Spiro
There is zero evidence in this case that Alec Baldwin brought the live round onto set.
- [39:51]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Correct?
- [39:53]
Political Commentator / Analyst
Correct.
- [39:53]
Paul Krugman
Your motion to dismiss with prejudice is granted.
- [40:04]
News Anchor / Host
How did you zero in on the key to getting that case dismissed?
- [40:09]
Alex Spiro
That case was always about how a live bullet got on the set. Prosecution thought it was about Alec Baldwin being reckless, Alec Baldwin having a big mouth, Alec Baldwin pointing a gun. But Alec Baldwin's done that. Actors have done that since the beginning of time. What was different here was really that there was a live bullet on the set. And so I made it my mission, the jury's mission, if they wanted to come with me to try to figure out how that happened. And as that continued, that journey progressed. It turns out that the prosecutor was concerned about the same thing and hid evidence. And that was uncovered in the middle of the trial and it disintegrated before the court's eyes.
- [40:46]
News Anchor / Host
I want to go through our lightning round. This isn't a word or a sentence which I think you'll be good at because you're fast. I knew I would be a lawyer when.
- [40:57]
Alex Spiro
When I was going to go be a doctor and everybody said, you're no scientist. You need to go be a lawyer before when I. Or when I saw A Few Good Men. Well, you know, that movie played a lot and, and I think that subliminally I, you know, I wanted to be Lieutenant Cavie.
- [41:16]
News Anchor / Host
The last thing you should say in court is,
- [41:23]
Alex Spiro
I believe
- [41:25]
News Anchor / Host
the most important time to remain silent is when somebody's self destructing. A jury wants to hear the unvarnished truth. Most overrated courtroom tactic.
- [41:41]
Alex Spiro
The idea that on cross examination or direct examination you should only ask methodical, linear, I know the answer to the question. Questions that I see pretty much everybody doing I think is a big mistake. It's taught that way. I think it makes it look staged, uninteresting, fake, and does not lead to a compelling presentation or the search for
- [42:06]
News Anchor / Host
truth, opening statement or closing argument.
- [42:11]
Alex Spiro
Don't give me the close all day.
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News Anchor / Host
Failure means
- [42:16]
Alex Spiro
the necessary step to success.
- [42:19]
News Anchor / Host
Success means
- [42:23]
Alex Spiro
take a beat, take it in and find a new thing to be successful with.
- [42:28]
News Anchor / Host
And finally reaching the summit means you
- [42:33]
Alex Spiro
got time to look at the trees and look at the horizon and figure out what you want to do next.
- [42:39]
News Anchor / Host
Alex Spiro, thanks for being here.
- [42:41]
Alex Spiro
Thanks.
- [42:43]
News Anchor / Host
That's our interview with a lawyer at the center of it all. You can go see more at Ms. Now. Summit with VRBoCare.
- [42:51]
VRBO Care Announcer
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