← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Judge blocks Federal Reserve subpoenas in Trump loss
00:41:30
A Federal judge quashes grand jury subpoenas in the DOJ's probe into the Federal Reserve chair. Plus, the latest on the Iran war, with the Pentagon confirming six additional American deaths. MS NOW’s Ari Melber reports and is joined by Jelani Cobb and Isiah Thomas.
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- [00:03]
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- [00:45]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
We begin with the big ruling a major legal loss for Trump. This is big news and we're going to get into why it matters. A federal judge here quashing grand jury subpoenas in Trump's effort to harass the Federal Reserve to try to help him in the election. All explained, but bottom line, Trump loses, Federal Reserve Chair Powell wins. This is a blow to the whole thing. And in over 25 pages, Trump learned he is powerless to do the kind of legal harassment that he's trying. I'll just tell you some of the highlights coming out of this blistering rejection of what has been a pattern that you've probably noticed. Trump trying to use or abuse federal powers and the DOJ to go after anyone who disagrees with him, the judge writes. There's abundant evidence these subpoenas, dominant, if not sole purpose, is to harass and pressure Powell either to yield to the president or to resign and make way for a Fed chair who will, he adds. On the other side of the scale, the government has offered no evidence whatsoever that Powell committed any crime other than displeasing the president and contends the subpoenas were merely part of a game plan to pressure Powell to bend to the president's wishes or get rid of him. That is a description of Donald Trump breaking the law, in other words, his attempted subpoenas illegal. The judge says this was a pressure campaign and of course the administration has targeted many of Trump's opponents, people who disagree with him, people who've exercised First Amendment rights. Our list here, which we've continued to update and we updated it today. If you look into, I know it's hard to keep track of all the revenge prosecutions and probes, but if you look in the middle right, you see subpoenas quashed that's the update today. Many of these efforts failing against the so called enemies list. And there's another layer here because Trump's pressure on the Fed and how he's talked about it himself, sometimes in his social media posts which are quoted against him, holding his words against him in the ruling, and sometimes in other forums is he wanted the Fed to do what it wasn't doing, which was distort interest rates and economic policy, to give him a short term sugar rush to help him in the midterms. So this is a story about the rule of law holding, a story about Trump losing in court and perhaps about him losing going into the midterms. I want to bring in the dean of Columbia Journalism School, Jelani Cobb, staff writer for the New Yorker magazine. His latest book is Three or More Is a Riot. And Che Komindori, a veteran political strategist who has talked to us about the power of fighting back, something Powell clearly did here. Jelani, you look through this ruling. It is a complete rejection of the Trump revenge efforts. Why does that matter right now?
- [03:24]
Jelani Cobb
Oh, it entirely matters. So what we're dealing with, first off, you know this better than anybody else. Of all the institutions, the DOJ is supposed to remain the most independent of the White House precisely because of the kind of havoc that can result in a president using the Department of Justice in precisely the ways that we've seen this president attempt to. And so what we're looking at is really pressure testing. Here's a quaint term. Guardrails.
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Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Yep.
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Jelani Cobb
These ideas of, you know, even some of the things that Trump has done have been innovative in the sense that they've made us actually go back and create rulings around things that would just habit. Things that were habitual. And so it's really important. It's also important that when you look at that enemies list, there as a distinction between Trump 1 and Trump 2.
- [04:13]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Yeah.
- [04:14]
Jelani Cobb
And there's going to be an interesting historical view of Bob Barr and Jeff Sessions, his two attorney generals, and Trump one as it relates to what we've seen happen under Pam Bondi.
- [04:25]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Yeah. And we'll leave this up while I bring in Che Komindoori. Because when they talk about flooding the zone, if that's a message campaign, fine. Che. When it's flooding the zone with illegal harassment efforts and probes, it's not fine. At a certain point, Congress and the country are gonna have to decide whether enough of these mean that Pam Bondi has to be impeached because judges are ruling that these are illegal and yet, at the same time, this is a big loss tonight for Trump. I'm curious your view with political strategy and the Democrats at racking up these losses, defeating Trump's efforts in a clear public way, which could send a message to others who have to decide, do you fold or fight?
- [05:09]
Che Komindoori
Yeah, I think that there's no question. You know, there's a line in the movie Roadhouse where Patrick Swayze says, you know, we're going to ask people who are disruptive to leave nicely. We'll talk to them nicely. We'll be very nice until it's time no longer to be nice. And I think for a lot of Democrats, now is the time no longer to be nice. You know, I think we tried with Joe Biden to turn the other cheek, to look past some of Trump's excesses, some of the excesses of his cronies. It clearly did not work. I think you're gonna see an increased drumbeat on the idea that we do need to, like, hold people accountable, people in the doj, people like Jeanine Pirro, people like Pam Bondi.
- [05:54]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Yeah. And I don't want to do deep interest rate talk on a Friday. Che. It's been a week. I think we can all agree. Save it. But bottom line, the Fed has a plan that they reach independently, not to help one party or the other. And Trump committed great, great public effort and risk at trying to harass them to change that plan to help him in the midterms. I've never seen, and I'll just share this to nerd out with everyone, a judicial ruling that starts out, quote, jerome, too late. Powell's done it again. He's, quote, too late. And in all caps, too angry, too stupid, and too political to have the job of Fed chair. I won't do the full Trump impression. Che, again, it's a Friday. But these words are being quoted from Trump and held against him. But it was part of his effort to try to dial in or shake down help for his party in the midterms. How do you, as someone who's worked with Obama and others view that? Because apparently the. That's not working either. He's not gonna get the interest rate change he wanted.
- [06:59]
Che Komindoori
Yeah. And I think part of the issue with the Trump authoritarian project is Trump himself. Trump has hired incredibly incompetent people because they are good on television. I mean, we see this with Pete Hegstad right now. We also see with Jeanine Pirro. And for Trump, it makes sense. He says, I was good on TV and people hired me to be president. Maybe I should do that and make that the main criteria by which I hire people. Now, I personally don't think Jeanine Pirro is that good on television. I always thought she was kind of a knockoff Judge Judy. She was kind of the Kid Rock halftime show to the Bad Bunny halftime show. But Trump did think she was really good on tv. And the problem is that he has surrounded himself by enormously incompetent people like Kash Patel, like Pam Bondi, like Jeanine Pirro, simply because they are sycophants and he believes that they are good on television.
- [07:53]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Right. And to date myself, Che, you don't necessarily want to have open heart surgery performed by Doogie Howser because he's an actor, Jelani.
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Jelani Cobb
Yeah, I vaguely recall him being an actor.
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Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Let me read from the ruling again. We just got this late in the day, and then I'll let you go ahead.
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Jelani Cobb
Also, like, really, I would prefer you read from the ruling with the instrumental of Shook One's Part two playing in
- [08:18]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
the background with a little mobb deep. Here's another thing. The judge says the president and his appointees may not interfere with the Fed chair's choices about monetary policy. What we were just discussing. Or use these subpoenas to pressure the chair to take official actions or retaliate against them for policies that they dislike. The judge is saying as fact, you know, sometimes people say, oh, we have to be fair. And some people say, Jelani, it's harassment. Other people say they want to just clean up the Fed, just like they want to drain the swamp. The judge is adding to the record, having looked through this closer than most. There's not actually a debate. According to the courts tonight, this is an illegal pressure campaign.
- [09:02]
Isaiah Thomas
Yeah.
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Jelani Cobb
And to the bigger point, and I keep wanting to go to the bigger point, what we're really talking about is institutional independence. If you're talking about the Fed, if you're talking about the doj, if you're talking about all these things that you. We had taken for granted. And so we've seen this harassment campaign for Powell. I mean, there wasn't any attempt to camouflage it, including the gotcha where they attempted to say that the budget was wildly inflated for construction and Powell had to fact check them in real time. Everyone knows what this was lined up to do. And it's really important, I think, as a precedent to see that this happens. Now, unfortunately, I think that there'll be other instances where we need to have a similar kind of ruling.
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Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
And Che, when you look at the people on Wall street or we just had Trump interfering in media mergers in tech. A lot of them have acted like appease him. Change the Washington Post for him, change CBS for him next, maybe change CNN for him. And there's news on that with the Pentagon today. I wonder if you think that Powell offers a different path than that because he didn't change policy for Trump. Correct?
- [10:15]
Che Komindoori
Yeah. And you see the fact that people like Thom Tillis have done pushback on this attempt to take over the Fed. You saw Powell did not behave certainly
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Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
the way a lot of The Wall
- [10:27]
Che Komindoori
Street CEOs and the tech titans have behaved, where he simply caved in and gave Trump what he wanted. But I would also add that there is a little bit of a danger here in this ruling. It's that Trump has been failed by the DOJ as an instrument of doing what he wants. It has completely failed him. What has not failed him is the Department of Defense, the Department of Defense. And our military is highly competent in large measure because they weren't hired by Trump. You know, they are people who have been given who are there to do a job and do it very well. So the temptation when Trump sees a ruling like this to say, well, the DOJ isn't working out for me, but here is another thing, however, that I can use and keep using. That works extremely well and can show everybody how strong, how macho I am. That temptation only increases as the DOJ fails him.
- [11:28]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
An astute point and one we've seen also interplay with the courts because he has already tried to put National Guard everywhere and some of that has been trimmed. But it's a fair point. I want to thank Che Jelani. Stick around. I want to talk to you about this domestic Iran pushback. Coming up tonight, I have my special report on Trump bowing to monopolies. Really important affects you and an Epstein update. But first we turn to the Iran issue. Jelani comes back. The pushback. World on fire. I'll see you in 90 seconds. Does Donald Trump have an end game for Iran? We have a lot of questions and conflicts. The Pentagon says six more US Service members are dead. That was because of a refueling aircraft that crashed over Iraq. The death toll now totals 13. The Pentagon says it's probing it. They don't know about what kind of fire it was per se, but they're going to look into all that. Trump raising eyebrows, though, with this. I don't think it's going to be long. When it's over, this is going to bounce right back so fast. When are you going to know when it's over? When I feel it.
- [12:38]
Isaiah Thomas
Okay.
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Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Feel it in my bones. In his bones. The US also is reportedly sending 5,000 additional Marines and warships to the region. Iran has now strangled the Strait of Hormuz, kneecapping energy supply. Here was the Pentagon today.
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Che Komindoori
The only thing prohibiting transit in the straits right now is Iran shooting at shipping. It is open for transit. Should Iran not do that?
- [13:05]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
That sort of is neither here nor there. It's a war, and Iran is doing that. They're also laying mines. The New York Times reports that the US Military finds the only way to guarantee that waterway stays open would be to actually take hold of Iranian territory. Retired U.S. general who led the planning on this said it would require numbers of ground forces to seize the coast. Short of that, the only lasting solution is diplomatic. Jelani Kab is back. And you see that this isn't aging well. If Trump's core claim was, we got this under control and we'll wrap it up. Days 10 to 14 have been worse from the US side than days zero to 10, certainly.
- [13:45]
Jelani Cobb
And also this will be over in a minute kind of language recalls what we heard about COVID saying that those numbers would go down and they would disappear, and then we know the scale of the catastrophe that that was. The other part of this is that, you know, we seem to have gone to war on the fly. This will be an interesting thing to do this month. Whereas Iran has had, going back to 1953 and understanding when the United States, along with the British, helped orchestrate a coup d' etat that overthrew their government, they have been thinking about the United States and what our capacity is to make mischief in their country for decades. And so I don't think they view this conflict in the same way. The other part of it is, and here's an interesting thought, it may not be up to the United States about when the war stops. We can stop firing. That doesn't mean that they will stop firing back. They will stop that. They will stop holding up traffic in the Strait of Hormuz. This can go on for an indeterminate amount of time.
- [14:51]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
The other thing I want to ask you is, compared to past military adventures, there's been a common theme of high support that then fades. Trump seems to have broken that. As a student of history, what do you think of that?
- [15:02]
Jelani Cobb
Well, there are a few things. One is, there are some things, quaint though they may be, that people make a case about why you are engaging the US Military in hazardous actions abroad. No such thing. Happened. And we are in the middle of a conflict that has yet to really be articulated with an open ended conflict with goals that are hazy and incoherent at best. And so the public support for this is going to be soft. Start out soft, and I think we even go lower from there. Yeah.
- [15:39]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Jelani Cobb, always good to see you. As mentioned, I have it in my hands. Three or more is a riot. You can get that wherever books are sold. Coming up, Trump's failure to crack down on corporate monopolies is rebounding on him with a lot of pushback. That's my special report and we have the Epstein accountant testimony. Stay with us. Americans are mad about inflation, rising gas prices. This wider sense, the economy is rigged. Workers struggle while CEO pay still skyrockets. Big tech harvesting our data to create their own AI riches. And Trump is using his job to enrich himself. We know corporations wield power sometimes as quasi monopolies, with critics saying the market concentration has reached illegal levels in several fields. You don't need to be an economist to see the problem. Everyone knows the game. Monopoly capitalism does require competition. Not one person controlling everything and then spiking prices on you. Now, liberals have pushed this point and gotten some progress. It doesn't even always make headlines. But I'll remind you, President Biden actually cracked down on monopoly style corporations blocking mergers that could hurt consumers, access to things like groceries or airline tickets, and even the important issue of healthcare. Now, another monopoly example that just about everyone knows about is Ticketmaster. It merged with its main competitor, Live Nation. They throttle competition. Major artists, many fans have noticed the fees and protested this for years. In fact, the company's jacked up ticket prices by 20% or more. That's their service fees that apparently they're allowed to charge because there's no competition. And this has been an issue on huge tours in dozens of locations. It's a giant economic issue because the concert industry tops, get this $200 billion annually. That's in the US alone. For context, every NFL team combined is $245 billion. So we're talking about a big deal. And Ticketmaster employees under scrutiny have actually been caught looking at all this as a big joke. When they drive up your prices, one internally was talking about robbing customers blind, robbing them because of their monopoly power, they can get away with it. Now, this is back in the news this week and I'll explain why. But the history is the Biden DOJ actually got tough on the concert giant. It took them to court to try to Break them up. And that process can take years. And the case finally went to trial this week with testimony that the Live Nation Ticketmaster president was doing the monopoly stuff that critics had always alleged, even threatening a big stadium, that they would just pull concerts and if they had to face what we all deal with in the market economy, if they were forced to face competition, testified that Michael
- [18:41]
Che Komindoori
Rapinoe, who was the president of Live
- [18:42]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Nation, told him the concert might disappear
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Guest or Analyst (possibly another commentator or expert)
if the venue switched to another ticketing company.
- [18:48]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
So there's been threats on the record that people are saying under oath that's what they were saying. The case against the company driving headlines. There's also states that filed antitrust suits from top Democrats in blue states. There's also outrage from Republicans in Congress. Monopoly ticket price gouging is actually a rare point of agreement across party lines because just about everyone hates it and it's obviously unfair. And politicians have music fans as constituents, they all do. And Congress has actually held hearings going at Ticketmaster quoting Taylor Swift, if that helps you get more interested. The issue boiling over with outrage because a lot of regular people struggled to get tickets to the much beloved Taylor Ayra's tour.
- [19:38]
Guest or Analyst (possibly another commentator or expert)
What Ticketmaster and its parent company Live Nation are doing looks like an illegal monopoly.
- [19:44]
Che Komindoori
As a ode to Taylor Swift, I
- [19:46]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
will say we know all too well
- [19:49]
Guest or Analyst (possibly another commentator or expert)
this merger between Live Nation and Ticketmaster will absolutely have and continue to have a detrimental effect on their prices.
- [19:57]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Ticketmaster ought to look in the mirror
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Isaiah Thomas
and say I'm the problem, it's me.
- [20:03]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
I think it's a nightmare dressed like a daydream and I don't think we ought to go there. They know the lyrics. That was both parties and conservative Republicans, along with Democrats and Biden's antitrust prosecutors and music fans all backed the basic demand for fair competition over monopoly price gouging. Or take a well known artist and MAGA fan, Kid Rock, hammering Ticketmaster's gouging and testifying to Congress this year about breaking them up.
- [20:34]
Che Komindoori
I believe music fans and artists have been getting screwed for far too long
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Isaiah Thomas
by the ticketing system.
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Che Komindoori
Should Ticketmaster and Live Nation be broken up? Probably.
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Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Trump's happy to use Kid Rock for promotion for photo ops, but I guess when it comes to policy or Kid Rock's fans, that has its limits. Because while Trump had reversed virtually all signature Biden policies that are under White House control, the Biden DOJ antitrust case on this issue continued for over a year and up through this week. And granted, there's been a lot going on this week. Which is why we're getting to this update here. That effort started by Biden had the wide support I just walked you through. But now the news is the Trump DOJ just backed down. They have jumped ship, settling with Ticketmaster for small tweaks, dropping the long running bid to actually break them up on behalf of consumers as an illegal monopoly. A judge still has to approve it. Some states say they're not going to back what they view as a weak Trump settlement. Now the president tries to distract from all kinds of problems and policies that he knows are unpopular, from breaking vows to drain the swamp. When you look at the rise in corruption in Washington to now undercutting his party's claims that they actually cared about lowering prices for you or these monopolies. Politically, it's obviously very popular to do this, but Trump apparently wants to side with the fat cats. A monopolistic corporation beats out the people in Trump's America. And contrasted to the alternative where Democrats were actually doing things to bring down prices. This is a part of a wider corporate agenda for Trump, even as perhaps fans like Kid Rock are still confused or in denial about his populist claims. And Trump has now gone well beyond say, the tax cuts of the first term for millionaires to these more extreme measures of crony capital, as if this is the last hand in the game and they don't even care how it looks. Abusing the oversight powers to shake down media mergers for partisan political coverage, which has been in the news a lot lately. The financial bible, the Wall Street Journal has criticized Trump's monopoly tendencies and bids to pick winners and losers or to even demand stakes in public companies. And here's the other thing I want you to remember. This is a long ways from the competitive capitalism that is supposed to work for you. In fact, in history there are Republicans who even led the trust busting fight. Take Republican President Teddy Roosevelt, despite the passing resemblance you see here to Mr. Monopoly himself, a Republican back in the day, Roosevelt fought the moneyed interests in the trust. He advocated a role for government regulating corporations and said Wall street has to understand, quote, we're not attacking the corporations, but endeavoring to do away with any evil in them. Trump chooses some corporations over consumers and his own MAGA base. Many leaders though in history have actually tried to save capitalism's monopoly tendencies from itself. Antitrust enforcement rather is law enforcement and
- [23:54]
Jelani Cobb
we need more of it.
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Guest or Analyst (possibly another commentator or expert)
Concentrated industries result in concentrated profits.
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Jelani Cobb
The handful of mega billionaires and companies
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Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
controlling what we see and what we hear over and over and over. They have found ways to use their monopoly platforms to cheat, steal and lie.
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Isaiah Thomas
The time is now to start breaking them up.
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Guest or Analyst (possibly another commentator or expert)
When markets are not competitive, big businesses are able to extract monopoly profits by setting prices that are higher and higher.
- [24:23]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
They don't want to face juries and I think the same is true for antitrust enforcement. They do not want to face private enforcers. Note the broad spectrum. Some of the loudest voices here may trend progressive, but populist Republicans also say this is something to fix. Not even a close call. Just not the Republicans in the White House. Donald Trump's Ticketmaster Cop out is news this week and it follows a wider pattern where the Biden DOJ's fight for consumers, whether people knew about it or not, people are busy living their lives. Or maybe it wasn't hyped and promoted with all the right memes. But the Biden fight for consumers gets dropped or undercut by Trump. And this Biden DOJ lawsuit was not alone. There was another one hammering Walmart and Pepsi for a secret plot to collude for higher prices which affects everyone in every Walmart, red state or blue. But it was dropped again by the Trump doj. Critics say that move rewards more potential price fixing which costs you Americans millions. Trump ran against high prices and affordability and then dropped the issue in office. Now he claims that the affordability he championed is actually a Democratic scam. But I guess that makes him a scammer since this was the thing he promised to address. These cases show it's actually even worse on policy. Trump actively dropping these years long actions just to try to help consumers. You actually stand up and fight these very powerful, very rich price gouging corporations. Whether that's from tickets which I showed you are as big as the NFL or to groceries which we all need to stay alive. And these are exactly the things Trump wants to keep out of the news. If you're hearing about this for the first time, well consider this a little step you're taking that Trump wishes you didn't know about. These anti consumer actions have real world consequences and it undercuts him with his base as they learn about it. Remember the lies, they don't override the lived reality of these high prices. 80% of people say Trump has failed to improve affordability whether they know about the antitrust history I just mentioned or not. And America has gone from presidents fighting the Monopoly man, really from Roosevelt to Biden to a self enriching billionaire who apparently would like to be the Monopoly man. If you and Kid Rock let him get away with it. That's our update. Still ahead, I want to tell you by the end of the hour, we have one of the basketball goats. Isaiah Thomas makes his beat debut tonight and an Epstein update from the accountant Moneyman himself next.
- [27:17]
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- [28:34]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
There are a lot of different developments coming out of the Epstein files. We've done a big set of reports on the case timeline, on the death timeline. There's also following the money as lawmakers have just opposed Epstein's longtime accountant, Richard Kahn. Now he says, somewhat implausibly, that he had no idea about any of Epstein's crimes. He may not have directly committed any crimes. He's not accused of that. But the idea that he had no knowledge when there was this much money going to this many people strains credibility. He did name five men who fueled Epstein's wealth. Wexner and Black are names we've mentioned before. They also, in fairness we note, deny wrongdoing linked to Epstein and have not been charged with any crime. But Congress is digging in deeper to leads that were apparently not followed. More info is trickling out as well about Epstein's death. The Herald recently reporting on an interview with an inmate who alleged that guards discussed a cover up in the opening moments when they discovered Epstein's body. Congress also requesting an interview with a prison guard who was on duty that night. This builds on the reporting we've showed you that there are at least legitimate questions to be investigated. We Showed you this death timeline which is original beat reporting this week. How it started with Epstein saying a cellmate tried to kill him, as you see there on the left something he later walked back. A suicide watch that ended, which was malpractice. Even if it was always and only a suicide, that was still a prison error. But then the other questions you see in the middle of our timeline and details that have been left out of the DOJ's watchdog report. Years later, DOJ said the officer was the last time anyone entered the area. But the Epstein files have revealed a secret FBI log of the same video which spotted a flash of orange going up the stairs. Inmates wear orange, not officers. The FBI stating a quote, flash of orange looks to be going up the stairs, could possibly be an inmate escorted up to Epstein's tear. Now, the FBI's own video review detected that prison orange uniform of a possible inmate. That's big. This review had the evidence orange that could be an inmate. But we are now learning it was cut, hidden or accidentally left out of the DOJ report. The new files reveal this never before seen set of details about Epstein's area on the night of his death. And we could show you the locked tier around Epstein's cell. 10:39pm that night, a blurry orange figure appears. The original FBI log calls it that flash of orange could possibly be an inmate. And note that careful description because then the DOJ review of the same footage changes it to write quote, inmates are currently on lockdown. It's possible someone is carrying inmate linen up the stairs. The public report by the DOJ hides this dispute over the orange flash. It states that a officer appears to walk up the stairway. Was that a good faith mistake or a malicious cover up? Those cover up questions continue. As I told you, Congress on an almost unanimous basis requested more of this info about the cause of death and the circumstances. And those files and the videos I just showed you raise questions about whether the DOJ minimized or hid what were open questions about whether someone in orange, a possible inmate or someone dressed as an inmate was on the loose. This does not change our current knowledge of the demise of Jeffrey Epstein, but it certainly raises questions about the government. Lawmakers are continuing to follow this story as will we now fit in a break. But when we come back, Americans are facing all kinds of health care dilemmas under Donald Trump. I'm going to bring Jelani Cobb back and we're going to get into that important story again. Cover foreign policy, we cover Epstein. But stuff that affects you directly also on our agenda tonight. That's next. There is a lot going on. It is Friday on the Beat. So you know, it's time to fall back. And boy, do we have a special one. Jelani Cobb, our Peabody award winning journalist, of course frequent beat guest, dean of Columbia journalism school. So when you talk about like what would they say in journalism school, he actually knows. He's written many books about music, politics and culture. His latest three or more is a riot, which has been referenced I think three times tonight, which is fitting. Cobb, also a staff writer on the prestigious New Yorker magazine. Busy and yet he is not the biggest guest in this segment, believe it or not.
- [33:19]
Jelani Cobb
Definitely not.
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Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
That would be the goat. Basketball Legend Isaiah Thomas, 13 years with the Detroit fist and to hall of Famer captain during the iconic and much discussed to this day. Check your Netflix bad boys era led the Pistons to Back to back NBA championships in 89 and 90. These days you can find him also offering expertise as an NBA commentator. NBA all star. Though he was widely known, celebrated and sometimes controversial for his energetic style of play.
- [33:50]
Isaiah Thomas
Just a little. We tried to use it as a rallying cry to come together.
- [33:59]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Isaiah Thomas was unanimously voted mvp.
- [34:02]
Isaiah Thomas
He gave a little shot take, then he went left.
- [34:05]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Boom.
- [34:05]
Isaiah Thomas
Basically, he, he is fun to watch.
- [34:08]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
He is fun to watch and beautiful.
- [34:09]
Isaiah Thomas
We had to do everything from a physicality standpoint to stop him.
- [34:13]
Jelani Cobb
The greatest player that ever played the game.
- [34:16]
Isaiah Thomas
Thank you for helping me and helping us accomplish this goal tonight.
- [34:24]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Welcome to both of you and great to have you make your beat debut.
- [34:27]
Isaiah Thomas
Thank you. And I'm honored to be here and thank you for inviting me. We're big fans of the show.
- [34:32]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Oh, thank you.
- [34:33]
Isaiah Thomas
You know, honored to be here. A little nervous, but, you know, this is like, it ain't as tough as playing at msg, but you know, it comes close, you know.
- [34:43]
Jelani Cobb
Well, y' all did pretty well at MSG.
- [34:45]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
We are happy that the MSNow audience is large and enthused, but you've had bigger audience than this when you're in those finals audiences. So TV should be easy for you here. Jelani, let's start with you though. As home court, your fallback list.
- [34:58]
Jelani Cobb
My fallback list. Well, the first thing on my fallback list is using rap lyrics and judicial sentencing. So there's a James Broadnax case that you're familiar with. 2009 conviction. Man is convicted of two homicides and in the death penalty phase of the case, first off, there are no African Americans. All African Americans are not on the jury. But when they get to the death penalty phase. They cite 40 pages, prosecution cites 40 pages of rap lyrics to establish the basis for saying that this person should be sentenced to death. We have this thing. It's battered, it's abused, it's overlooked and forgotten, but it still exists, this thing called the first Amendment, that this is protected creative expression. And it's as absurd, even as this has happened in multiple other instances. It's as absurd as saying that we should prosecute Robert De Niro for playing the young Vito Corleone. And so your artistic expression and whatever else may happen in your life, we don't believe that you should be penalized for your artistry, Especially work that is in the hip hop tradition, very often the product of an alter ego or a figure that is, you know, character made, figure.
- [36:26]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
We'll take the chart down. We've seen the quote. I wanted to just say to you, you know, there's also all of the artists like Johnny Cash who talk about I shot a man arena and watch him die. And we don't see it used against white defendants.
- [36:39]
Jelani Cobb
No, we don't. And Johnny Cash is like the great example of that. As you kind of walk through all of it and people will say you are speaking in the kind of. In the first person, but it's really the third person.
- [36:49]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
It's a character, right?
- [36:50]
Jelani Cobb
It's a character.
- [36:52]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Yeah. I'm so glad you brought it up. I have followed that case. I actually looked at the. The filing with Killer Mike and Alex Spiro and others, but we hadn't covered it yet.
- [37:00]
Che Komindoori
Yeah.
- [37:01]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Travis Scott, So thanks for bringing that up, Isaiah. We jump around on topics. What's on your list?
- [37:05]
Isaiah Thomas
WNBA lockout. You know, as a basketball fan and sports fan, when you look at what's going on with the wnba, well, potential lockout. You know, as a former president of the players association, going through collective bargaining agreements several times was one of the people who talked about the salary cap, I think, in 84, 85 with the NBA. And that's what's kind of where the WNBA is at right now after 25 plus years of growth. Players have made sacrifices, owners have made sacrifices. But right now, the league is at a point where you can grow. You've captured international basketball attention. And to miss this opportunity right now with some type of lockout or setback or strike. I just think the players and the owners right now, they really need to get together at the bargaining table, get creative, come up with something new. Don't necessarily get bound to the past in terms of agreements, but right now, I think the WNBA is at a flexion point, and if you miss this opportunity, it can really set you back.
- [38:21]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Yeah, and they're growing. And the same way we saw the NBA grow globally in your era, you don't want to have, you know, too much momentum lost a period like this. What else is on your list, Jelani?
- [38:32]
Jelani Cobb
Well, you know, this is the other part of my list, which is healthcare costs. And we are now seeing, you know, a recent study found that one in three Americans were counterbalancing the cost of healthcare against making life decisions like getting married, having children, or even, crucially, retiring. And this is if there's any kind of emblem of the dysfunction in our healthcare system, it's that. And that is even more exacerbated by the fact that we just saw the Republican Congress refuse to renew the Medicare, excuse me, the Obamacare, healthcare subsidies. We've seen cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. And on the other side of it, there are Americans suffering and wondering if they can even afford their medication. People are rationing medication in the United States. And so this administration has said that its objective is to make America healthy again. You can start by making America able to afford the medications that their health depends on.
- [39:41]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Yeah, I think that's well put. And again, those are daily stories everyone's living through.
- [39:45]
Jelani Cobb
Sure.
- [39:46]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
We've got you here. I want to talk a little mba. And when's the last time you and Michael talked?
- [39:54]
Isaiah Thomas
It was right before the dream.
- [39:57]
Che Komindoori
Okay. Wow.
- [39:59]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
See, there's the answer. When I was watching the last. You gotta give me that. You gotta get me that. And you said I met the criteria, but I was not selected. We still see all of these goat debates in the history. How do you feel? Now you look back on it, you're, you know, you're respected, you're a champion. But from that documentary to other things, and a lot of the players, of course, are out talking on tv, and the Internet's got more debates than ever. You feel like the. Is it. Is it a testament to how much it matters that it's still going? Or are you like, all right, we're past everything?
- [40:37]
Isaiah Thomas
No, I take it as a compliment and an honor that so many people still think that I should have been on the team, by the way, including me.
- [40:50]
Jelani Cobb
Is that even a question? That's not even a question.
- [40:52]
Isaiah Thomas
Yeah, and I enjoy the fact that we get to debate it. We get to talk about it. And also the goat debate, I think it's important because in every sport, right, whether it be baseball, football, hockey, they all have advance in terms of there was a great player in the 60s, there was a great player in the 70s, there was a great player in the 80s, 2000s, so forth and so on. Basketball seems to be the only sport now that's frozen at one particular person where you can't go above him.
- [41:30]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
I hadn't thought about that. Right.
- [41:32]
Isaiah Thomas
And you know, at one time when we was growing up, hey, Montana was the guy, you know, John Unitus was the guy.
- [41:38]
Jelani Cobb
Sure.
- [41:38]
Isaiah Thomas
Okay. Now Tom Brady's the guy, you know, and somebody else can be the guy. And baseball, you know, Hank Aaron, you know, Ty Cobb, it advanced. You know, hockey, basketball seems to be the only sport where we're frozen at one particular person. And Nike and media and everybody else won't let you move past that. Now, when I look at what Kareem Abdul Jabbar has done, when I look at what LeBron James is still doing, we have never seen a player in all sport that is statistically dominant in every single basketball category. Passing, rebounding, scoring assist. I mean, when you look across the board, LeBron James name is there. So, you know, when it comes down to the goat debate, to me, in basketball, we have never seen a basketball player like LeBron James as complete as he is.
- [42:40]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
I got 20 seconds. Are you sure that is your objective view, or does it have to do with the alternatives on the table?
- [42:48]
Isaiah Thomas
No, no, no, that's my, that's my objective view. Now. Now some people, I'm gonna try to get this 10 seconds in. Some people will say, well, 20 years ago you said Jordan LeBron James wasn't born then when I was talking about Jordan, what we've seen with LeBron James in terms of what he's been able to do financially for the league, how he's carried the league, how he's been professional for the league, and where salaries were when he came in and where salaries are now. Come on, man. You gotta give respect where respect is due. And that's what I do.
- [43:19]
Host (likely a news anchor or show host)
Respect. That's our theme to wrap the show, which I love. Isaiah Thomas, Jelani Kab. And we'll be right back. Thanks for watching the beat.
- [43:32]
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